Sasser Author Arrested

[leftism]

Originally posted by clocker+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by leftism+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leftism)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I know the incompetence of administrators is irrelevant to the question of his guilt or punishment. I&#39;m not talking about that. I&#39;m talking about the damage done to important systems. That is the responsibility of the administrators.
[/b]

Secondarily, yes. The primary responsibility still lies with the author of the worm/virus.
[/b]

Of course, but if you want take practical steps to address the nuisance caused by these worms your going to have to deal with these administrators.

It&#39;s like having a town full of people who refuse to lock their doors. Unless you have a magic solution to get rid of all the burglars these people are going to have to learn to lock their doors.

Allocating responsibility and punishment is one thing, but by the time you get round to doing that its too late. The horse has already bolted, the damage is already done. Dealing with these incompetent administrators will preempt future attacks and will produce practical results. At the moment the media circus and scaremongering that surrounds these cases seems to divert peoples attention away from this factor again and again.

Originally posted by clocker

Originally posted by leftism
What happens time and time again in these cases, is that we "punish the kid", have a hysterical outburst for a little while, and then get back to the same state of affairs we had before.

Hmmm, since punishment hasn&#39;t worked in the past, I suppose we just let the little geek go.
After all, what&#39;s the point.
BTW, punishment for murder doesn&#39;t seem to be terribly effective either, so....

I&#39;m not suggesting we shouldn&#39;t punish the kid and I&#39;m sure your aware of that. I&#39;m saying that punishment alone will not solve this.

<!--QuoteBegin-clocker@

despite a lack of direct casualities, the very real threat that they pose.
If not the Sasser worm, then the next.... or the next...inevitably, a worm-to-come will be intentionally malicious-let&#39;s shut down the powergrid or launch an attack on a nuclear power plant- and the defense is what, "It&#39;s the fault of the computer admins"? [/quote]

I think the media have to take responsibility for this popular misconception and for the complete lack of focus on the admins who are 50% of the problem.

The fact is that worms spread randomly and as quickly as possible, If nuclear power stations and power grids were vulnerable to worms (i.e directly connected to the net) they would have been hit many many times in the last 20 years. The worm would not have to attack them purposefully as you&#39;re suggesting. Worms "attack" everything which is why we definitely would have had some disaster by now if it were possible.

This is why I find your comparison of mass murder and terrorism with malicious code to be completely inappropriate. Worms are simply not a "real threat" to the national infrastructure and cannot be compared to nerve gas or biological warfare.

They are a nuisance and can cost companies money because they can&#39;t carry out their online business as usual. When it comes to safety critical systems no one in their right mind would allow them anywhere near the web because i) it&#39;s completely unnecessary, ii) it&#39;s far too dangerous.

That&#39;s why isolated incidents such as the coastguard are as disgusting as they are rare. Leaving a safety critical PC directly connected to the web with no protection at all is akin to a pilot downing a bottle of whisky then taking a plane full of passengers for a spin.

<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes
The reason I thought J2K4&#39;s post to be a classic is that many individuals like to make equally inappropriate comparisons between Bush and Hitler, and feel themselves fully justified.[/quote]

To be a true "classic", the individuals complaining about the Sarin/worm comparison would have to be the same ones comparing Bush with Hitler.

[3RA1N1AC]

bah. viruses, worms, trojans. you can avoid all of those with a nominal amount of technical savvy.

what gov&#39;ts, corporations and ISPs really oughta put some effort into legally combating is the spam. it&#39;s getting to the point where most people with email accounts spend an inordinate part of each day deleting spam and configuring their spam filters. spammers might claim it&#39;s a matter of free speech, but that&#39;s totally bogus: e-mailboxes aren&#39;t public property; they&#39;re the property of the ISP/host, on lease to the end user. t&#39;ain&#39;t nuthin&#39; but harrassment, plain & simple.

[junkyardking]

If windows didnt have so many holes then this wouldnt have been a problem.

[tracydani]

if i leave my car door open it does not give someone the right to steal from me. if they do they are 100% to blame, i am not to blame at all. the fact that i did not take precautions against being the victim of a crime is entirely irrelevant.

Actually where I live you can get fined for not locking your car doors. I agree it&#39;s silly, but it&#39;s true.

the prick who wrote this worm is totally to blame for his actions and should suffer the consequences.

Yes he should. He was aware of what he was doing and has only himself to blame.

it is in no way the fault of people who did not protect themselves from his anti-social behaviour. they are innocent people just going about their business.

Except that they have put themselves into a position where they are responsible for peoples lives. This should also mean they are responsible to a degree for leaving themselves open to attack if they cannot show they have taken reasonable precautions to prevent these things. It&#39;s not as if they are unaware of the potential threat from these constant viruses/worms.

TD

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by tracydani@9 May 2004 - 13:40

it is in no way the fault of people who did not protect themselves from his anti-social behaviour. they are innocent people just going about their business.

Except that they have put themselves into a position where they are responsible for peoples lives. This should also mean they are responsible to a degree for leaving themselves open to attack if they cannot show they have taken reasonable precautions to prevent these things. It&#39;s not as if they are unaware of the potential threat from these constant viruses/worms.

TD

Good point.

However to my mind it does not detract from the fact that the author of the worm is totally responsible for the damage it causes.

They should indeed take precautions, because they are operating in the real world. However they should not have to, it is only because of idiots like this that valuable time an resources are lost. One hates to imagine how much time and money has been spent on trying to stop this type of thing, or clearing up after it.

So my solution, get rid of the idiots. Jail time, then internet ban.

[Biggles]

I think a long jail sentence is rather harsh.














A short spell in a nice jail near Baghdad should do nicely.





Incidently, do any of you computer buffs know how to remove a Trojan from my registry file? I have to quarantine the two files it generates every time I start up. I had a look at the registry file but to be quite honest I could not see anything called "I&#39;m a virus delete me". Consequently, I decided caution was the better part of valour.

According to AVG the trojan is called Revop.C - I think it is adware that my daughter has picked up from her various bizarre Japanese Anime sites.

[J'Pol]

Apparently Avast Anti Virus (a free trial download) will remove it.

http://www.avast.com/

[Biggles]

Thanks J&#39;Pol I will give it a whirl.

[leftism]

Originally posted by Fugley+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Fugley)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Leftism

absolute shite[/b]

Eloquently put

Originally posted by JP Fugley+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JP Fugley)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
if i leave my car door open it does not give someone the right to steal from me.[/b]

Correct.

Originally posted by JP Fugley
if they do they are 100% to blame, i am not to blame at all. the fact that i did not take precautions against being the victim of a crime is entirely irrelevant.

Incorrect. If you want to live in a fantasy world and refuse to lock your doors then people will steal from you. Its not right, but thats the real world. Deal with it. We don&#39;t live in Care Bear land so protecting whats yours is your responsibility.

If someone came on this forum and said "hey I left my front door open and got robbed" I seriously doubt you or anyone else would offer any sympathy. More likely people would tell him to grow up, get real, and learn to lock his damn door like most responsible adults do.

Anyway.. that analogy is incorrect. It&#39;d be more appropriate to use the security guard analogy. If a security guard left a building unlocked and took the night off he would be sacked and rightly so. That situation is no different to these incompetent administrators who seem to get away with it time and time again.

Originally posted by JP Fugley

the prick who wrote this worm is totally to blame for his actions and should suffer the consequences. it is in no way the fault of people who did not protect themselves from his anti-social behaviour. they are innocent people just going about their business. he is in the wrong, fucking about with other people&#39;s lives because he is an inadequate bastard who wants to show other inadequate bastards how big his cyber prick is.

Worm writers are like all criminals. You can punish them but you will never get rid of them entirely. Having accepted that reality like mature adults, we can either wring our hands and whine about it or we can deal with it.

You can leave safety critical computers unprotected as a matter of principle, you can leave your car unlocked as a matter of principle. They are going to get f***ed with because thats the world we live in. These people are getting paid good money to protect these systems. If they cannot do their jobs or are unwilling to do their jobs, there are plenty of people who will be happy to take their place.

Originally posted by JP Fugley
who knows how many lives have been effected by this. who knows how many lives have been shortened through the extra stress it causes. who knows how many have been lost, the domino effect does exist.

Ohh the hand wringing, ohh the melodrama "lives shortened by stress" Is it puppy and kittens time yet? Lets try and keep this in perspective.

<!--QuoteBegin-JP Fugley@

long jail sentence, let the other sad fucks know what the consequences are.[/quote]

No ones disagreeing with you on that one.

<!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol

So my solution, get rid of the idiots. Jail time, then internet ban. [/quote]

That "solution" has consistently failed to get rid of any form of criminality. Until we come up with a magic bullet to rid the world of all criminality we&#39;re going to have to protect whats ours and continue punishing these people. Failure to do either of those two things is akin to living in a fantasy world.

[J'Pol]

The point is that the punishments should be more severe to

a, take offenders out of the system for a protracted period.

b, deter others from following suit.

As long as the victims are being partially blamed for the crime then this is used in mitigation. The defence of - if he had taken sensible precautions then my crime would not have worked.

It is time to put all on the blame on the perpetrators and leave the victims alone. What happened to them was not in any way shape or form their fault.

No-one is suggesting that people should not lock their car. The suggestion is that we should have the expectation that our property will not be attacked. When it is we have the right to expect that the law will prosecute them and punish them in an appropriate matter. The suggestion is that we Should be able to leave our property unlocked, not that we can.

Oh and are you suggesting that someone&#39;s data being destroyed by a virus or worm is not a cause of stress. Your use of "hand wringing" and such phrases does not make the point made any less true.