The Ronald Reagan On Everything Thread

[j2k4]

Originally posted by vidcc@14 June 2004 - 19:37
Ok J2 but if you read my post you will see that i wasn't against the tax cuts...... i was against the timing. i feel that a more prudent policy would have been to delay them. He cut back on governmental spending to save money but he had to make harsher cuts than need be and ended up needing to borrow from the welfare fund.

Timing?

Here's how that works, vid:

Day one: Tax cut.

Day two: Increased revenue.

There's no "timing" problem.

The return is instantaneous.

[vidcc]

Originally posted by j2k4@14 June 2004 - 19:32
[Timing?

Here's how that works, vid:

Day one: Tax cut.

Day two: Increased revenue.

There's no "timing" problem.

The return is instantaneous.

Please explain how taking less tax increased governmental revenue. Or are you suggesting that he in fact just shifted the burden from one group of tax payers to another?

You may of course use more than one word but you will be marked down for repetition of any words

[j2k4]

Originally posted by vidcc+14 June 2004 - 20:40--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc &#064; 14 June 2004 - 20:40)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-j2k4@14 June 2004 - 19:32
[Timing?

Here&#39;s how that works, vid:

Day one: Tax cut.

Day two: Increased revenue.

There&#39;s no "timing" problem.

The return is instantaneous.

Please explain how taking less tax increased governmental revenue. Or are you suggesting that he in fact just shifted the burden from one group of tax payers to another?

You may of course use more than one word but you will be marked down for repetition of any words [/b][/quote]
Taking less tax puts more money into circulation; more purchasing (more revenue), more investment (more revenue), more business (more revenue), more jobs (more revenue).....

What&#39;s better?

Five bucks apiece from each of 50 sources, or a buck apiece from 1000 sources?

It goes on and on, vid.

Let the people keep their money; they know what to do with it.

The people and their money: That is the economy-not the government&#33;&#33;&#33;

See how simple it is?

It&#39;s called CAPITALISM.

It&#39;s easily recognizable, owing to it&#39;s distinctive green color.

[vidcc]

Oh i know economics but i also know human nature, However in your large print you are talking about a different thing to what i am.
to quote my original post

Reagan created boom for some but the tax payer paid the price. there is no such thing as a free meal. While the stock markets rose he failed to balance the books in house

the defecit is not the private economy, the household budget is what i am talking about. If the government owes money we all owe money. It&#39;s not the governments job to run your private business, it&#39;s their job to run the country.
Despite what you think we do need welfare. We do need that safety net for the less fortunate. we do need social spending on things such as the military. And for that we have to have tax.
A balanced budget is where you take what you spend...spend less than you take and you have a surplus, spend more, you have a defecit. Reagans term in office spent more than he took so apparently the tax cuts didn&#39;t produce the extra cash he thought they would ( this is historical fact not opinion). He chose to offset this but cutting public services more and more until there was little left.
You blame congress for the failings, yet you yourself said that reagan did little to combat this, i assume you would take the same stance should it happen to a democratic leader.
as i said i didn&#39;t dissagree with the tax cuts... 75% was too much of a take even for a billionaire. I have felt the pain of paying 40% and i am not rich. i just feel he could have delayed it until the deficit he inherited was less of a chain around our necks instead of taking a gamble against human nature.

[Busyman]

Too bad it didn&#39;t work for Reagan.

The economy wasn&#39;t jump started.

We had a horrible recession.

and rampant inflation but hey......

THE RICH GOT RICHER.

The poor stayed poor. Very effective.

I&#39;m the government- I need money

I&#39;m poor- take a dollar from me

I&#39;m rich- take a 1000 dollars from me

CUT TAXES

I&#39;m poor- take 90 cents from me

I&#39;m rich- take 800 dollars from me

Reagan&#39;s cuts didn&#39;t work, Bush&#39;s don&#39;t work.

Now in addition let&#39;s create a nation of the affluent and the supremely poor.

Ship jobs to India. It&#39;s really good for America.

Tell that to the IT manager who lost his job.

I wonder who benefits from outsourcing jobs to other countries?

CEO and higher ups.

What jobs are left?

There&#39;s a great custodial job that we actually couldn&#39;t ship overseas.

Oh I forgot, we&#39;ve got an illegal alien willing to do the job at half the hourly wage. If he fucks up, he&#39;s out&#39;a here. Back to Nicaragua.

Oh here&#39;s a new one.

Forget the old social security program.

Allow me to invest it.

Why who has experience at that?

Glad you asked. Well for the most part, people that already invest or at least have a decent amount of money.

Well what if I lose the money in the risky market.

Well, that&#39;s on you


j2, vidcc and others don&#39;t realize it, but I have along time ago and I know you do.

Capitalism is not evil but once you&#39;ve "made it" moneywise, it gives you the means to exert a selfishness hidden behind law.

There will always be haves and have nots.
Politicians have to balance what they say they are doing for the have nots and what they are doing for the haves.

Rant over.

Kinda sleepy.

[vidcc]

Originally posted by Busyman@14 June 2004 - 21:31
j2, vidcc and others don&#39;t realize it, but I have along time ago and I know you do.

you have lost money? and you know we do what?

I&#39;m not actually saying reagan did a good job, but i will always concede where he had succcess. and as to tax cuts i didn&#39;t object to them i said he needed to wait. He didn&#39;t cut spending before the tax cuts. Spending was high and it wasn&#39;t efficient spending and needed to be controled. Waste and red tape should have been the primary target. Bring the budget under control then give the people their tax reductions. By tax reductions i mean fair tax breaks for all not just the few.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by vidcc+15 June 2004 - 01:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc @ 15 June 2004 - 01:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@14 June 2004 - 21:31
j2, vidcc and others don&#39;t realize it, but I have along time ago and I know you do.

you have lost money? and you know we do what?

I&#39;m not actually saying reagan did a good job, but i will always concede where he had succcess. and as to tax cuts i didn&#39;t object to them i said he needed to wait. He didn&#39;t cut spending before the tax cuts. Spending was high and it wasn&#39;t efficient spending and needed to be controled. Waste and red tape should have been the primary target. Bring the budget under control then give the people their tax reductions. By tax reductions i mean fair tax breaks for all not just the few. [/b][/quote]
Oh I don&#39;t disagree necessarily.

You just have some folks agendas mixed up.

Do you think Bush really cares about ole&#39; Ron?

It&#39;s a political tactic to boost the Republican party thus boosting his re-election campaign.

Wanna know why there was this push to get Clinton?

Well America pretty much enjoyed 8 years of bliss....under a Democratic President. This was a war of legacies.

The blowjob scandal to tarnish his legacy. Clinton of course helped make that bed though. Nevertheless the "uproar" and "well I never" and the "I am appalled" was to "blow" it out of proportion.

Now Clinton is most known for....the blowjob.

On the flip, ole Ron had shitty policies. The rich got richer under both regimes. The middle class just got more of their share under ole Will.

I know you remember:

&#036;500 for a screwdriver.....that was under Reagan.

[vidcc]

i haven&#39;t been talking about bush. apart from perhaps this

QUOTE&nbsp; j2k4

Anyway, Reagan kinda had to allow it to go on, &#39;cuz he had defense to worry about,



vidcc:
this is an interesting statement and to me it says that you felt that Reagan was unable to multi-task. Never should it happen that something is "allowed to go on" because of other things. Perhaps that&#39;s one of the problems we are seeing now.

i have been talking about the reagan administration and how it wasn&#39;t as rosey as some would have us believe. Do you think i have been singing his praise?

Wanna know why there was this push to get Clinton?

Well America pretty much enjoyed 8 years of bliss....under a Democratic President. This was a war of legacies.

The blowjob scandal to tarnish his legacy. Clinton of course helped make that bed though. Nevertheless the "uproar" and "well I never" and the "I am appalled" was to "blow" it out of proportion.

Now Clinton is most known for....the blowjob.

i have stated before that clinton was actually a good president who balanced the books ( can&#39;t quote from the lost posts) i feel one of the finest of the century.

[Formula1]

Found this interesting information on Reagan

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?...nald+reagan&f=1

&nbsp; &nbsp; Perhaps the most ignorant American president in history. This isn&#39;t being partisan or prejudiced. Reagan was just hugely incompetent in everything he did and frequently lied to get by. Started out as an actor and somehow thought this made him qualified to run for office. Put a tremendous amount of effort into the "War on Drugs," one of the most spectacular failures in American domestic policy. Strangely obsessed with Star Wars, going so far as to support the idea of the "Star Wars" missile defense program and often (seriously) referring to the Soviet Union as the "Evil Empire." Hated Communism and Socialism with a passion. Traded arms for hostages in the Iran Contra crisis, thereby helping both murderous guerrilla "freedom fighters" and Islamic militants at the same time. Because of time and circumstance he was present when the Soviet Union eventually collapsed. For some insane reason, and despite the fact that they had been moving toward this for years, many Reagan supporters and ultra conservatives give him "credit for ousting their regime" which he didn&#39;t. Currently has Alzheimer&#39;s [the Cult of the Dead Cow made a joke of taking responsibility) and is now ridiculously senile. This isn&#39;t much different than what it used to be, considering he regularly fell asleep during important political meetings both with his advisors and with such personalities as the Pope and often had little idea what was going on at any given time. Had a fetish for Jelly Beans and survived an assassination attempt. Almost always consulted with an astrologer and both Rush Limbaugh and Jerry Falwell were huge supporters, which should tell you a lot. On a side note, was also responsible for one of the largest American deficits in history.

&nbsp; &nbsp; Actual quotes from the man himself:
&nbsp; &nbsp; 1965: "We should declare war on North Vietnam... It&#39;s silly talking about how many years we will have to spend in the jungles of Vietnam when we could pave the whole country and put parking strips on it, and be home by Christmas."

&nbsp; &nbsp; "I favor the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and it must be enforced at the point of a bayonet, if necessary."

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1966: "I would have voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964."

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1976: "Fascism was really the basis for the New Deal. It was Mussolini&#39;s success in Italy, with his government-directed economy, that led the early New Dealers to say &#39;But Mussolini keeps the trains running on time.&#39;"

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1980: "All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a desk." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "History shows that when the taxes of a nation approach about 20 percent of the people&#39;s income, there begins to be a lack of respect for government... When it reaches 25 percent, there comes an increase in lawlessness." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "Because Vietnam was not a declared war, the veterans are not even eligible for the G.I. Bill of Rights with respect to education or anything." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "Trains are not any more energy efficient than the average automobile, with both getting about 48 passenger miles to the gallon." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "Approximately 80% of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation. So let&#39;s not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough emissions standards from man-made sources." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "Growing and decaying vegetation in this land are responsible for 93% of the oxides of nitrogen." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "I have flown twice over Mount St. Helens. I&#39;m not a scientist and I don&#39;t know the figures, but I have a suspicion that one little mountain out there, in these last several months, has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "Mr. Carter is acting as if he hasn&#39;t been in charge for the past three and a half years; as if someone else was responsible for the largest deficit in American history." (Carter&#39;s total deficit: &#036;252 billion; Reagan&#39;s: &#036;1.4 trillion)

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1982: "In England, if a criminal carried a gun, even though he didn&#39;t use it, he was tried for first-degree murder and hung if he was found guilty." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1983: "This country is compelled by scripture and the Lord Jesus Christ to oppose Russia with all military and political means."

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1984: claims homeless people are homeless by choice

&nbsp; &nbsp; When a student at Shanghai&#39;s University of Fudan asks which life experiences best prepared him for being President of the United States, Ronald Reagan replies: "You&#39;d be surprised how much being a good actor pays off."

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1985: "I think that there&#39;s nothing wrong with visiting that cemetery Bitburg, where those young men are victims of Nazism also, even though they were fighting in the German uniform, drafted into service to carry out the hateful wishes of the Nazis. They were victims, just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps."

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1987: regarding AIDS "Maybe the Lord brought down this plague... because illicit sex is against the Ten Commandments."


&nbsp; &nbsp; Quotes made *about* Ronald Reagan:

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1981: "The best we could probably hope for is a military coup, or something like that." - Sen. John Schmidz, if Reagan&#39;s policies fail

&nbsp; &nbsp; "He knows less about the budget than any president in my lifetime. He can&#39;t even carry on a conversation about the budget. It&#39;s an absolute and utter disgrace." - House Speaker Tip O&#39;Neill after Reagan vetoed an emergency spending bill which would have prevented a shutdown of the federal government

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1984: "President Reagan doesn&#39;t always check the facts before he makes statements, and the press accepts this as kind of amusing." - former president Jimmy Carter

&nbsp; &nbsp; 2001: "When Ronald Reagan got Alzheimer&#39;s, how could they tell?" - George Carlin

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Formula1@15 June 2004 - 05:51
Found this interesting information on Reagan

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?...nald+reagan&f=1

&nbsp; &nbsp; Perhaps the most ignorant American president in history. This isn&#39;t being partisan or prejudiced. Reagan was just hugely incompetent in everything he did and frequently lied to get by. Started out as an actor and somehow thought this made him qualified to run for office. Put a tremendous amount of effort into the "War on Drugs," one of the most spectacular failures in American domestic policy. Strangely obsessed with Star Wars, going so far as to support the idea of the "Star Wars" missile defense program and often (seriously) referring to the Soviet Union as the "Evil Empire." Hated Communism and Socialism with a passion. Traded arms for hostages in the Iran Contra crisis, thereby helping both murderous guerrilla "freedom fighters" and Islamic militants at the same time. Because of time and circumstance he was present when the Soviet Union eventually collapsed. For some insane reason, and despite the fact that they had been moving toward this for years, many Reagan supporters and ultra conservatives give him "credit for ousting their regime" which he didn&#39;t. Currently has Alzheimer&#39;s [the Cult of the Dead Cow made a joke of taking responsibility) and is now ridiculously senile. This isn&#39;t much different than what it used to be, considering he regularly fell asleep during important political meetings both with his advisors and with such personalities as the Pope and often had little idea what was going on at any given time. Had a fetish for Jelly Beans and survived an assassination attempt. Almost always consulted with an astrologer and both Rush Limbaugh and Jerry Falwell were huge supporters, which should tell you a lot. On a side note, was also responsible for one of the largest American deficits in history.

&nbsp; &nbsp; Actual quotes from the man himself:
&nbsp; &nbsp; 1965: "We should declare war on North Vietnam... It&#39;s silly talking about how many years we will have to spend in the jungles of Vietnam when we could pave the whole country and put parking strips on it, and be home by Christmas."

&nbsp; &nbsp; "I favor the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and it must be enforced at the point of a bayonet, if necessary."

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1966: "I would have voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964."

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1976: "Fascism was really the basis for the New Deal. It was Mussolini&#39;s success in Italy, with his government-directed economy, that led the early New Dealers to say &#39;But Mussolini keeps the trains running on time.&#39;"

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1980: "All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a desk." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "History shows that when the taxes of a nation approach about 20 percent of the people&#39;s income, there begins to be a lack of respect for government... When it reaches 25 percent, there comes an increase in lawlessness." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "Because Vietnam was not a declared war, the veterans are not even eligible for the G.I. Bill of Rights with respect to education or anything." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "Trains are not any more energy efficient than the average automobile, with both getting about 48 passenger miles to the gallon." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "Approximately 80% of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation. So let&#39;s not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough emissions standards from man-made sources." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "Growing and decaying vegetation in this land are responsible for 93% of the oxides of nitrogen." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "I have flown twice over Mount St. Helens. I&#39;m not a scientist and I don&#39;t know the figures, but I have a suspicion that one little mountain out there, in these last several months, has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; "Mr. Carter is acting as if he hasn&#39;t been in charge for the past three and a half years; as if someone else was responsible for the largest deficit in American history." (Carter&#39;s total deficit: &#036;252 billion; Reagan&#39;s: &#036;1.4 trillion)

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1982: "In England, if a criminal carried a gun, even though he didn&#39;t use it, he was tried for first-degree murder and hung if he was found guilty." The claim is provably false.

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1983: "This country is compelled by scripture and the Lord Jesus Christ to oppose Russia with all military and political means."

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1984: claims homeless people are homeless by choice

&nbsp; &nbsp; When a student at Shanghai&#39;s University of Fudan asks which life experiences best prepared him for being President of the United States, Ronald Reagan replies: "You&#39;d be surprised how much being a good actor pays off."

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1985: "I think that there&#39;s nothing wrong with visiting that cemetery Bitburg, where those young men are victims of Nazism also, even though they were fighting in the German uniform, drafted into service to carry out the hateful wishes of the Nazis. They were victims, just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps."

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1987: regarding AIDS "Maybe the Lord brought down this plague... because illicit sex is against the Ten Commandments."


&nbsp; &nbsp; Quotes made *about* Ronald Reagan:

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1981: "The best we could probably hope for is a military coup, or something like that." - Sen. John Schmidz, if Reagan&#39;s policies fail

&nbsp; &nbsp; "He knows less about the budget than any president in my lifetime. He can&#39;t even carry on a conversation about the budget. It&#39;s an absolute and utter disgrace." - House Speaker Tip O&#39;Neill after Reagan vetoed an emergency spending bill which would have prevented a shutdown of the federal government

&nbsp; &nbsp; 1984: "President Reagan doesn&#39;t always check the facts before he makes statements, and the press accepts this as kind of amusing." - former president Jimmy Carter

&nbsp; &nbsp; 2001: "When Ronald Reagan got Alzheimer&#39;s, how could they tell?" - George Carlin

Shit like that is easy to find, and context is always the problem.

Think about it for just a second-

Toward the end of your "find", there is a quote from Jimmy Carter thus:

1984: "President Reagan doesn&#39;t always check the facts before he makes statements, and the press accepts this as kind of amusing." - former president Jimmy Carter

Is this exceptional?

Is it factual?

Is it anything but a generalized commentary from the man who was beaten soundly in an election?

My point:

If one is attempting to gather or collect damning or earth-shaking statements or accusations about someone, one doesn&#39;t go about it by diluting "bomb-shell" data with this sort of tripe.

I was sitting on the loading dock of a feedmill in Canton, Georgia in the summer of 1978.

I heard a local farmer tell the proprietor he was "gonna write a book about how that little peanut-farmer from Plains became President of the United States, and proceeded to fuck-up the whole Goddamn universe".

Such commentary is easily as salient as that which you found, but has the added quality of also being accurate.