Musical Influence

[Gemby!]

ok so this is my first thread in the talk club so its gonna be a serious one !

so i was wondering what peoples opinions are on how music effects childrens state of mind.

for example some people will say that those kids in america who go to their school and just shoot any kid in sight, are the kids that listen to people such as manson, and that this sort of music encourages kids who dont know better to do these sort of things

eventhough his songs may encourage people to do strange and at times dangerous things i feel that if someone is willing to do what a singer tells them to they must have something not quite right with them as they should know the difference between things they should and shouldn't do

anyway i was just wanting to start a topic like this so i sound slightly capable of having a decent discussion, aswell as finding out what people think

[Rat Faced]

There are lots of songs in all types of music talking of shooting people.

There are Rap songs that talk of love.

To blame one type of music as the cause of violence, merely shows an ignorance of the lyrics of songs throughout the ages.



I freely admit, I find most Rap crap as an example. I wouldnt dream of insulting the youth that enjoy it, by saying it causes them to go out and kill & steal... this was happening long before Rap was popular.

Likewise Manson....

Kids were getting shot in American schools before he came on the scene, the increase is in line with the increase of Violent Crime generally in the US I believe... statistically speaking.

The day that these people just come out and say they dont just like the music, they may actually find more people respecting their opinion.


Its nothing new by the way, as a few of the members here can tell you... Rock n Roll is the Music of the Devil, our parents told us so.


Unless their is something subliminal in the videos (which i doubt) then I'd say that the only physical effect of differing musics are in the amount of andrenalin that gets produced.

The heart does actually speed up to a quick Beat as an example, so that music is "more exciting" or gives a bigger "Rush".

However a slow Beat, with a pretty girl in my arms gets my heart racing just as much

[hobbes]

Healthy minded children understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

Today we like to talk about violence on TV and in the movies, but this will never exceed those cartoons I was weaned on. Bugs Bunny, Road Runner- sledge hammmer to the head, fall off a cliff violent. Even as a wee boy, the line between fantasy and reality was firmly drawn.

Any fault/ blame at music lyrics are just excuses given by individuals who are totally fucked up, and parents trying to displace the blame of their short-comings on someone else.

Sometimes the parents are not to blame, the kid is just truly messed up. In these cases the parents blame the music or TV because they are truly mystified at what went wrong. People strongly desire explanations and closure. Actions which cannot be explained are very destabilizing.

If you see the world as place where things will happen and people will do things that cannot be explained, this is very frightening to the individual who wants a sense of order and control.

So believing and acting on music lyrics are just a symptom, and not the cause of an underlying illness. People secure in themselves will never be warped into cruel acts just because someone sang about it.

As wonderful as music is, how many parents have blamed the success of their children on the inspirational messages contained in their childrens albums?

[Biggles]

I would agree with Rat Face

There was moral panic over Elvis's wriggly pelvis and US TV channels would not show footage of him below waist height.

The Beatles hair styles caused outrage and letters to the Times.

The Stones - well the Stones really were naughty.

However, the music culture of the late 60s did impact on politics and social attitudes - mainly for the better in my view and did challenge sacred cows.

Bad Boy Rap stars are an attempt to cash in on an already existing street culture. Ali G is the best antidote to this in my view.

People like Manson are genuine talents and are a lot more complex than certain media images would portray. I do not believe he is advocating anarchistic violence - although it may be that those with dark intentions like the reaction he causes and enjoy the association. The two boys who shot up Columbine school had both been subjected to bullying and felt like outcasts - a more fertile ground to investigate anti-social behaviour than music I suspect.

Likewise, Black gang culture has more to do with identity, life opportunities and fitting in than music - the music as an expression of sub-culture comes after such a formation rather than as the catalyst.

However, I am at a loss to explain the Cheeky Girls and this may blow my thesis to pieces.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by hobbes@7 July 2004 - 17:11
Healthy minded children understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

There's the nub of it.

That those who aren't "healthy-minded" can be negatively influenced by such fluff as rap is, sadly, indicative of how widespread the problem of parental dissociation (for any number of reasons) actually is.

[Gemby!]

so does anyone think that movies can effect how a child sees things, and can misguide them into thinking whats right and wrong as movies can contain strong, violent images.

i can't remember the case but it was when i was only young and these two boys killed another boy who was younger than them , which was simular to a film .

i think that movies which are rated 18 should definatly not be seen by children of a young age as it would be hard for them to tell if that is real or fake, but if they do see such things than i feel the parents are to blame

[hobbes]

Originally posted by gemby!@7 July 2004 - 20:57
so does anyone think that movies can effect how a child sees things, and can misguide them into thinking whats right and wrong as movies can contain strong, violent images.

i can't remember the case but it was when i was only young and these two boys killed another boy who was younger than them , which was simular to a film .

i think that movies which are rated 18 should definatly not be seen by children of a young age as it would be hard for them to tell if that is real or fake, but if they do see such things than i feel the parents are to blame

Gemby,

My parents took me R-rated movies from the age of 5. I learned about appropriate behavior based on the actions of my parents, not what I saw on the big screen.

A clear distinction between "pretend and real" begins at an early age, and you either "get it" or you don't.

Nudity and sexual content were the only things I could not appreciate/understand as my hormones were still dormant.

[Rat Faced]

You see worse on the News on an evening.

Its a parents responsibility to protect their children...yes.

Its not the classification boards responsibility; the classifications that a movie would go into change as often as the board that reviews them.

For the cinema, fine. I cant tell what my son is going to see there, so i trust them to be the guide...same goes if he hires a movie.

If i felt that the classification was wrong on a movie though, i would either let him see it/or not... depending upon what i thought, not the Classification Board.


As an example, I cant see any adolescent not knowing about Sexual Issues...as an 18 Film does NOT include hard core porn (in the UK anyway), I would have no problem with them seeing these movies; if thats the only reason they were clasified "18". Hell, it might educate them some, and teach them they should use safe sex etc

Actually, I have trouble thinking off hand of any "18" movie, i would have a problem with an adolescent watching.... unless they suffered from some psychological problems to begin with.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by hobbes+7 July 2004 - 23:04--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 7 July 2004 - 23:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gemby&#33;@7 July 2004 - 20:57
so does anyone think that movies can effect how a child sees things, and can misguide them into thinking whats right and wrong as movies can contain strong, violent images.

i can&#39;t remember the case but it was when i was only young and these two boys killed another boy who was younger than them , which was simular to a film .

i think that movies which are rated 18 should definatly not be seen by children of a young age as it would be hard for them to tell if that is real or fake, but if they do see such things than i feel the parents are to blame

Gemby,

My parents took me R-rated movies from the age of 5. I learned about appropriate behavior based on the actions of my parents, not what I saw on the big screen.

A clear distinction between "pretend and real" begins at an early age, and you either "get it" or you don&#39;t.

Nudity and sexual content were the only things I could not appreciate/understand as my hormones were still dormant. [/b][/quote]
Beat me to it...

And much more elequently stated sir

[Gemby!]

your right about parents teaching children about what is real and what isnt, but with films based on whats going on in the world dont you think thats its often hard to teach them whats right and wrong as they often blurr into each other ?