How Bout Dem Wizards!!! (NBA)

[manker]

If a parent is trying to get their child into a non-contact sport, I wouldn't recommend tennis or basketball. I'd recommend tennis.

Yeah, same here

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Busy, I know I said I have no intention of re-iterating my point but you seem to be in a wonderful, magical world of your own where only your posts are relevant. Maybe you really did forget this.

No-one is saying that contact doesn't happen in Basketball. However, intentional contact is specifically forbidden by the rules. You keep saying about fouls - they're specifically forbidden by the rules too.

A player is forbidden from trying to gain an advantage by using contact, if he tries to do so, he will be penalised. This is what distinguishes it from soccer and other contact sports.

Surely - you cannot disagree with this

[Snee]

Busy, just because people manipulate a system it doesn't alter what the system is supposed to be if it works as it's intended.

If one sets a given system of rules as the norm, then how can circumventions of the rules be what the system is defined by?

I'll agree that basketball is a contact sport the day the rules say it is, and since they don't, yet, I don't.

[RPerry]

Your team is now my favorite to win the whole thing as well.

Just wanted to let you know Miami wasn't my team, they were just my pick to win it all. Unfortunately, Orlando is my team ( yeah, the ones who drafted and lost Shaq) and I still have a love for the man who made The Magic good, if only to leave before we got our championship. I cannot gripe though, All of my teams have won championships recently ( with Atlanta Braves being the most distant) The others are The Buccaneers, and Tamap Bay Lightning

[Busyman]

Yeah, same here

===

Busy, I know I said I have no intention of re-iterating my point but you seem to be in a wonderful, magical world of your own where only your posts are relevant. Maybe you really did forget this.

No-one is saying that contact doesn't happen in Basketball. However, intentional contact is specifically forbidden by the rules. You keep saying about fouls - they're specifically forbidden by the rules too.

A player is forbidden from trying to gain an advantage by using contact, if he tries to do so, he will be penalised. This is what distinguishes it from soccer and other contact sports.

Surely - you cannot disagree with this

Busy, just because people manipulate a system it doesn't alter what the system is supposed to be if it works as it's intended.

If one sets a given system of rules as the norm, then how can circumventions of the rules be what the system is defined by?

I'll agree that basketball is a contact sport the day the rules say it is, and since they don't, yet, I don't.

1) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball who has his back to the basket below the free throw line extend-ed outside the Lower Defensive Box.
(2) A defender may apply contact with a forearm and/or one hand with a bent elbow to an offensive player in a post-up position with the ball in the Lower Defensive Box.
(3) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball at any time in the Lower Defensive Box. The forearm in the above exceptions is solely for the purpose of main-taining a defensive position.
(4) A defender may position his leg between the legs of an offensive player in a post-up position in the Lower Defensive Box for the purpose of main-taining defensive position. If his foot leaves the floor in an attempt to dis-lodge his opponent, it is a foul immediately.

This is allowed and it used to gain an advantage by the poster and/or the person being posted.
It is contact.
It is not incidental.
It is intentional.

It just doesn't say, "This can be used to gain an advantage."

Book knowledge versus common sense.

Also Snny, fouls are intended to be a penalty yet it is not circumventing the system when a player purposely fouls another. It can be a penalty for the person fouled....yet the rules don't state this (yet it is within the rules).

Book knowledge versus common sense.

[Snee]

Do you think it becomes more true if you say it a lot?

What you are quoting means that the ref doesn't have to blow the whistle if it happens, not that the player should strive to do it. If he happens to come into contact with someone when he's trying to block them, 'cos they are moving against him, then that's cool, it doesn't mean that he's supposed reach out and touch someone on purpose.

More: Purposefully breaking the rules can't be part of the rules. You can't break a rule while acting within the rules, that isn't common sense, sorry.

[RPerry]

Do you think it becomes more true if you say it a lot?

IWhat you are quoting means that the ref doesn't have to blow the whistle if it happens, not that the player should strive to do it. If he happens to come into contact with someone when he's trying to block them, 'cos they are moving against him, then that's cool, it doesn't mean that he's supposed reach out and touch someone on purpose.

the disagreement here is becoming pointless. whether or not contact is allowed by the rules does not matter. Fact is it happens, and more often then you could ever imagine, and thats in the pro's. Atleast they are more careful of fouls, so they won't be ejected out of the game. Thats why one of my first posts was asking about pick-up games. If you play out here, you run a good chance of being injured. Most of the people I played with could care less about an "accidental elbow" to the face or anything else, because the was no ref out there making calls. Arguing over it isn't going to change the facts, especially since most of the people arguing have never played an organized game of Basketball in their life

[manker]

So contact is allowed for a defender as long as it's a really soft prod with a bent elbow or a forearm. Gawd, now I really think they're a bunch of sissy girls. From what I see there, that's all about a defender maintaining his position and not having to yield to the attacker.

It also says that ... these exceptions above ... .

This infers to me that the rule is that no intentional contact is allowed.

Surely, you're not going to let the exceptions over-ride the rule, are you. That really would be illogical.

[manker]

the disagreement here is becoming pointless.

Thanks for the ruling.

If you think another discussion that I'm involved with is in danger of becoming pointless, please ensure to let me know and I can take appropriate action.

[Snee]

the disagreement here is becoming pointless. whether or not contact is allowed by the rules does not matter. Fact is it happens, and more often then you could ever imagine, and thats in the pro's. Atleast they are more careful of fouls, so they won't be ejected out of the game. Thats why one of my first posts was asking about pick-up games. If you play out here, you run a good chance of being injured. Most of the people I played with could care less about an "accidental elbow" to the face or anything else, because the was no ref out there making calls. Arguing over it isn't going to change the facts, especially since most of the people arguing have never played an organized game of Basketball in their life

I've played it, a lot. Multiple tournaments in two schools (and a lot of "unorganized" games as well).

And since there are only three of us "arguing" about it...

I agree though, the argument isn't going to change anything.


It won't change that the fact of the matter is that it isn't, according to the rules, a contact sport.
And the rules of the game go before how people break them, when defining the game. In fact, any breaking of the rules is outside the system, and shouldn't come into the definition of it.

That's just how it is. In fact, the "legal" contact in the game from busy's quotes, is referred to as exceptions, ie deviations from the norm, and last I checked no system was defined by whatever deviations from the norm existed within it.

[RPerry]

Thanks for the ruling.

If you think another discussion that I'm involved with is in danger of becoming pointless, please ensure to let me know and I can take appropriate action.

The only danger I see is the possibilty that you could be hit it the head with a basketball, and would argue it was soccer