forgetting your roots

[vidcc]

Vid-

I empathize entirely with your urge to assimilate, but you must realize that you apply yourself to that particular task out of nothing more than the goodness of your own heart and a personal rationalization (which is commendable) that you might be a better neighbor and/or community member.

My reply to hobbes clears up (I hope) why I have this view

For the state to require it of you or it's agencies by way of accomodation accomplishes nothing, and is, as Hobbes says, a barrier to integration and race relations.

I would suggest that I creates a barrier for you because you choose it to be.
I don't know how to say this without it seeming personal..but it isn't my intention for it to be...... the "If they come here they should intergrate to us" thing shouldn't be taken as being give up anything else.
I know you agree that other nations have things to offer but I do sometimes feel that people have the attitude that instead of "adding" to our (this doesn't just apply to the USA) culture, they are in fact trying to take over and destroy the culture. This just isn't true.
America has a culture based on many, when did culture suddenly become set in stone.

[hobbes]

My reply to hobbes clears up (I hope) why I have this view


America has a culture based on many, when did culture suddenly become set in stone.

The official language in America is English.

Notice that all signs are in this language. Do we need 57 different sets of road signs to accomadate everyone?

If I moved to France, I would learn French, not expect their government to provide everything to me in English.

I am not a carebear that thinks that I should learn Chinese, Japanese, French, Polish, German, Russian, and Spanish as an opportunity to better understand those flocking to my country. It is the opposite.

My ancestors spoke something other than English, but understood that speaking English was how to best assimilate in a new land.

[vidcc]

America has no responsibility to accomadate base on numbers.

Since when did the lack of responsibility mean that something shouldn't be done?

The country was founded and chartered in English. Anyone that comes here must not only agree to our philosophy, but speak our official language.

I have already said that part of becoming a citizen should be a minimum vocabulary. My point is that a second language is a good thing. If you wish to be left behind and live in a small world that's your choice, nobody is forcing you to learn anything and for your particular field of employment perhaps you may not need a second language, but today's world is not just America. More and more we are dealing on the international market...so tell me what is so beneficial in a nation that is mono-lingual? On the world market the old speaking slowly and loudly doesn't make them understand.
A nation of children growing up with the ability to communicate on the world market IS a good thing. It broadens opportunity.

[bigboab]

Since when did the lack of responsibility mean that something shouldn't be done?



I have already said that part of becoming a citizen should be a minimum vocabulary. My point is that a second language is a good thing. If you wish to be left behind and live in a small world that's your choice, nobody is forcing you to learn anything and for your particular field of employment perhaps you may not need a second language, but today's world is not just America. More and more we are dealing on the international market...so tell me what is so beneficial in a nation that is mono-lingual? On the world market the old speaking slowly and loudly doesn't make them understand.
A nation of children growing up with the ability to communicate on the world market IS a good thing. It broadens opportunity.

I tend to disagree with this view. The age of the Internet IMO requires a single language, which appears to, at the moment,be favouring English. There was a big hullabaloo at the loss of Latin a few years back. If a language is not getting used, let it die.

If you visit Wales, North Scotland or the Republic of Ireland you will find signposts in two languages. I bet that the people who were shouting for this were not the majority who payed for them. There are more signposts in Gaelic than Gaelic speakers.

[manker]

I tend to disagree with this view. The age of the Internet IMO requires a single language, which appears to, at the moment,be favouring English. There was a big hullabaloo at the loss of Latin a few years back. If a language is not getting used, let it die.

If you visit Wales, North Scotland or the Republic of Ireland you will find signposts in two languages. I bet that the people who were shouting for this were not the majority who payed for them. There are more signposts in Gaelic than Gaelic speakers.

I can see some cold reasoning there that makes sense, unfortunately people just aren't like that.

If you let a language die then part of that community's culture will die too. As I said, I cannot speak Welsh - and to be perfectly honest the dual-language sign-posts are superfluous from an outsider's point of view but the fact that I see Croeso i Cymru on my way back over the Severn Bridge gives me, and most Welshmen, a tingle of pride that Welcome to Wales never could.

If not many people visited Edinburgh Castle, you wouldn't want to knock it down.

[bigboab]

If not many people visited Edinburgh Castle, you wouldn't want to knock it down.

I dont know that many people that speak 'Edinburgh Castle'. Spider Dude maybe.


Sorry Liam. I could be wrong. You are possibly more Haymarket.

[manker]

I dont know that many people that speak 'Edinburgh Castle'. Spider Dude maybe.

I'll be the grammar police, you can be the analogy cop.

[Busyman]

The official language in America is English.

Notice that all signs are in this language. Do we need 57 different sets of road signs to accomadate everyone?

If I moved to France, I would learn French, not expect their government to provide everything to me in English.

I am not a carebear that thinks that I should learn Chinese, Japanese, French, Polish, German, Russian, and Spanish as an opportunity to better understand those flocking to my country. It is the opposite.

My ancestors spoke something other than English, but understood that speaking English was how to best assimilate in a new land.

Damn hobbes you make so many good points that it's hard to even add to it.

We need our immigration laws tightened. The Hispanic population has grown due to "jumping the fence" and then being granted citizenship. In contrast, blacks, the "other" minority here, were brought over here and we fucked our brains out. Not alot of immigration but fornication.

Again, there is a large number that refuse to learn English.

By having a dual official language, New Mexico is unequivically promoting speaking one or the other.

Very good point. By having another official language (Spanish) you essentially say to the folks that only speak Spanish that there is no need to learn English.

The only folks that care about the Spanish language presence in our country are politicians and marketing gurus.

Comcast has a Spanish package on digital cable and politicians love to bring voters in "over the fence".

[hobbes]

Since when did the lack of responsibility mean that something shouldn't be done?



I have already said that part of becoming a citizen should be a minimum vocabulary. My point is that a second language is a good thing. If you wish to be left behind and live in a small world that's your choice, nobody is forcing you to learn anything and for your particular field of employment perhaps you may not need a second language, but today's world is not just America. More and more we are dealing on the international market...so tell me what is so beneficial in a nation that is mono-lingual? On the world market the old speaking slowly and loudly doesn't make them understand.
A nation of children growing up with the ability to communicate on the world market IS a good thing. It broadens opportunity.

I think that there is a distinct line between, "I think it is a good idea to have exposure and knowledge of other languages, especially in today's global market" and "Having more than 1 official language is a good thing."

For instance, I think it is a good thing to have a "foreign language" requirements in high school and college. I took Spanish and Latin and I personally enjoyed those classes. I do not think it is good to have 2 official languages because it has no role other than 2 divide people within the same country. I don't want to be asking for directions in some small town in New Mexico and have no one around able to understand me. Or send my child to school taught in Spanish because that is what the majority that live their speak. This is America, not "little Mexico", we already have a language. If we add Spanish, then where do we stop adding new "official" languages.


We did this little experiment before in the Old West. Each bank would print it's own currency. Problem was it was not readily transferrable due to lack of security behind all those different currencies. It was chaos, you never knew if the next town would accept the money you were carrying or not. The solution was to create a single currency that was insured in gold by the treasury. One country, one official currency, one official language- it just makes sense.

Language in the future will become more homogenized with this interweb thingey though, I've personally added quite a few Scottish favorite to my vocabulary and they are permeating the minds of those who are forced to work with me. Troubling aspect is that is all profanity.

[Snee]

It's quite possible to have two or more official languages without giving them the same status.

We have one official language used by the majority here, that's the one that goes on road-signs and similar. Then there are a bunch of minority-languages, and some information is available in these languages, but one language is still the norm. It works quite well.

Children whose first language/whose parents' first language isn't the norm learn the norm, and their own, and they have a right to learning their own language as a subject in school ("hemspråk/native language").

Being bilingual is never a bad thing, it has been proven that people learning two or more languages stand to gain a lot, both by having a greater ability to communicate, and by being better at learning yet more languages.

Your first language is, psychologically, an important part of your identity, and something you should be allowed to keep.


I've noticed that some of you use the expression "assimilation" rather than "integration", assimilation is usually regarded as being more negative since it's a loss of part of your ethnicity and identity, as opposed to integration where your ethnicity remains intact while you become a part of society. Many countries today strive towards integration as it's been proven to be better for the individual. And an important part of this is that you get to keep your own language.