Chemical Evolution?

**bigboab** · 04-11-2005, 12:18 PM

In a recent report in the UK it was stated that about a third of male fish are changing sex due to chemical pollution. Could this same chemical pollution be affecting the sexuality of male humans? In my lifetime I have seen a massive increase of homosexuals. Even allowing for the relaxing of laws and the general acceptance of homosexuals, IMO the increase goes beyond that.

There have been a few reports of really young kids with these tendencies. I am talking primary school 6 and 7 year olds.

When I was younger these tendencies did not appear till adolescence. I can never remember youngsters being 'different' prior to adolescence.

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Pollution 'changes sex of fish'

Fish populations could be hit, the Environment Agency warns
A third of male fish in British rivers are in the process of changing sex due to pollution in human sewage, research by the Environment Agency suggests.
A survey of 1,500 fish at 50 river sites found more than a third of males displayed female characteristics.

Hormones in the sewage, including those produced by the female contraceptive pill, are thought to be the main cause.

The agency says the problem could damage fish populations by reducing their ability to reproduce.

It said its study highlighted the need for water companies to develop new treatments.

There has been concern for some time that chemicals, known as endocrine disruptors, are causing fish to change sex.

The latest study is the first to show the scale of the problem in Britain.

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Please discuss.

**JPaul** · 04-11-2005, 12:41 PM

I have heard it said that homosexuality is because of genetics, or environmental conditioning, or some mixture of both. i.e. some people are potentially homosexual but only live a homosexual lifestyle if they are raised a certain way.

I have never heard anyone say that it is based on pollution, or has pollution as a factor.

I don't see it myself, based on nothing much but my feelings. I will be interested to hear what others think.

**Barbarossa** · 04-11-2005, 12:41 PM

I heard once that sperm counts are going down dramatically, and this may be because the female hormones from the contraceptive pill are getting into and staying in the water supply. :crying:

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that sexuality is being affected in the same way though..

**Busyman** · 04-11-2005, 12:48 PM

The way most same sex marriage advocates tell it, the increase in homosexuality is because of it being easier to come out of the closet.

I say it's more of an accepted norm.

Pollution affecting what a female thinks looks good?

I think not.

**manker** · 04-11-2005, 12:55 PM

Certain species of fish change sex as a matter of course, their breeding peculiarities mean that it is essential to the continuation of their species. The largest fish in a school often becomes male to continue the 'good' genes and he impregnates as many females as he can - or rather fertilizes as many eggs as possible. These changes are influenced by chemical reactions which take place before and after breeding - some fish can change sex each season until they die.

It is not uncommon - at all - and it follows that certain types of chemical pollution would have a detrimental effect on the fish population.

However, and this is without any research, mammals cannot do this. We have a 1:1 sex ratio and no need to change sex. Therefore chemicals can have no effect upon our sex.

What you're saying is that fish changing sex due to pollution - and therefore becoming sexually attracted to a different gender than before the sex-change, could have a correlation in humans but without the sex-change. This seems unlikely at best.

The prevalence of gay people today c.f. yesteryear is down to social acceptance of homosexuality and the plain fact that it isn't illegal anymore so people with gay feelings do not have to hide their true nature. The anecdotal evidence you supplied in the example is easily explainable by the above.

**bigboab** · 04-11-2005, 01:17 PM

atrazine
Popular weed killer demasculinizes frogs, disrupts their sexual development, UC Berkeley study shows

In their journal article, Hayes and his colleagues write, "The effective doses in the current study ... demonstrate the sensitivity of amphibians relative to other taxa, validate the use of amphibians as sensitive environmental monitors/sentinels, and raise real concern for amphibians in the wild."
Hayes doubts that atrazine has such severe effects on humans, because the herbicide does not accumulate in tissue and humans don't spend their lives in water like frogs do. Nevertheless, the effects of atrazine on frogs could be a sign that the herbicide is subtly affecting human sex hormones too, interfering with androgens, such as testosterone, that control male sex characteristics.

There are a lot of similar items creating 'cause for concern' about this subject.

**Snee** · 04-11-2005, 01:17 PM

Hormones do affect the later development of a featus, so I suppose that pregnant women that come into contact with that pollution may somehow come to bear children somehow affected by this. But I don't know what bearing it will have on their sexuality, if any.

If anything the increase of people with unorthodox outlooks on their preference of partner, is probably a direct result of the fact that it is so socially acceptable as it is.

I think you underestimate how much our culture has changed the last fifty years.

There are instances in history where homosexuality (among men) has been perfectly acceptable, as in ancient Greece, where it would seem it was fashionable at one point.

This has nothing to do with hormones, I think. It would rather seem that in a culture without such taboos we used to have regarding sexuality, some people are capable of making a choice as to what they desire in a partner, even regarding gender.

Looking at what is deemed situational homosexuality (in prisons and similar) many people that would otherwise be heterosexual will seek a partner of the same gender as themselves in specific situations, mostly because, it seems, there's a lack of partners of the opposite gender.

This current trend is an extension of that, I think. It is acceptable, and therefore more people will choose it on some level.

As to whether this is good or not, I don't know, and I don't much care.
As long as I can find happiness, with a partner of my own preference, I don't much care what others do.

I do get a bit miffed at people who confuse their sexuality with politics or similar, and who seem determined to flaunt it like it was a badge of honour or something, in official contexts and such. That would go for heterosexual people as well, if they started organising parades.

Homosexuality always seemed awfully counter-productive to me, though

No babies made and that.