The Failure of Feminism?

[j2k4]

blah blah blah blah blah

Your best post today...

[Biggles]

It is fair to say that the media loves the "rent a quote" crowd be they from the right or the left.

I am not particularly familiar with US feminists but I do recall seeing a programme involving Andrea Dworkin. Scary lady. I believe another commentator on the left held the view that she was the best thing that happened to those that opposed the Feminist movement because of her somewhat militant style of speaking. She has passed away and I am sure I read somewhere that she had a less than happy life, and consequently may have had reasons to be strident. She apparently got a lot of media space for her views, which were often seen as fringe even by other Feminists. Likewise Rev Phelps gets far more airtime than he deserves. His Church is small (and largely related to him from what I can gather). He is barking mad and, likewise, does not represent main-stream Christianity.

Consequently, which Feminism are we considering has failed? The fringe, strident "chop his goolies off" sort or the genuine work undertaken to see equality of opportunity? It would have been unthinkable for a black person to have held high office in the US 100 years ago. It would have been equally unthinkable for a woman to have held high office. For a black woman to have such status would have had the fiery cross makers working nights. The world has moved on. If the battle in 08 is between Hillary and Condaleeza it will not raise too many eyebrows nor pose Kevin with too many hard choices

In short, yes there is less of the Dworkin style radical feminism about but perhaps this is because many women feel the world has moved on, not because they have given up.

[j2k4]

It is fair to say that the media loves the "rent a quote" crowd be they from the right or the left.

I am not particularly familiar with US feminists but I do recall seeing a programme involving Andrea Dworkin. Scary lady. I believe another commentator on the left held the view that she was the best thing that happened to those that opposed the Feminist movement because of her somewhat militant style of speaking. She has passed away and I am sure I read somewhere that she had a less than happy life, and consequently may have had reasons to be strident. She apparently got a lot of media space for her views, which were often seen as fringe even by other Feminists. Likewise Rev Phelps gets far more airtime than he deserves. His Church is small (and largely related to him from what I can gather). He is barking mad and, likewise, does not represent main-stream Christianity.

Consequently, which Feminism are we considering has failed? The fringe, strident "chop his goolies off" sort or the genuine work undertaken to see equality of opportunity? It would have been unthinkable for a black person to have held high office in the US 100 years ago. It would have been equally unthinkable for a woman to have held high office. For a black woman to have such status would have had the fiery cross makers working nights. The world has moved on. If the battle in 08 is between Hillary and Condaleeza it will not raise too many eyebrows nor pose Kevin with too many hard choices

In short, yes there is less of the Dworkin style radical feminism about but perhaps this is because many women feel the world has moved on, not because they have given up.

Agreed, agreed, and agreed.

The media needs to forego the fire-breathers of all camps.

There are many spokespersons "in waiting" who are ignored owing to misguided ideological considerations...

I'm sure such as Dr. Rice could hold forth for hours, days, even, about how it works, without uttering a single identifiable ideologism.

If the media were not itself biased, it could already be happening.

[Skweeky1]

Tsk, how sexist. Not a single girl in this thread.
My two cents:

I think the progess of feminism has been slowed down my certain feminist movements who wanted equal rights for men and women all the way.
Let me ellaborate on this;

In my opinion, men and women are physically and mentally different beings. Even the structure of our lungs differs.
We both have different talents and skills. It often annoys me when people act condescending towards 'typically female' professions such as nursing, midwivery etc...
I think we all know that women simply are better carers, so why should it be a disgrace to act out that talent?
Most of the men I know have got more analytical minds than most of the women I know so how can it be sexist to accept this?

It has now come to a point where, if you don't juggle your career with a couple of kids, a nice house and ca and a loving husband BEHIND you, you didn't succeed as a woman.

Where's the sense in that?
Why would it be a disgrace to choose between your kids and your career?
It seems that these days, being a full time mum is old fashioned and disrespectuful towards yourself.

Yes, of course I am glad that women and men have the same rights now, but this idea of women HAVING to do the same things as men do is more sexist than anything else.
It doesn't acknowledge femininity

[tantric]

When you turn on the tv or open a magazine...

I hope you don't base all your thoughts on what you see in the media.

They've been known to skew thimgs just a wee bit to sell advertising.

[j2k4]

Tsk, how sexist. Not a single girl in this thread.
My two cents:

Well, to bully a female response would have been, let's see....uh, sexist, wouldn't it?

Actually, we've just been waiting for you.

I think the progess of feminism has been slowed down my certain feminist movements who wanted equal rights for men and women all the way.
Let me ellaborate on this;

In my opinion, men and women are physically and mentally different beings. Even the structure of our lungs differs.

Believe me, we've noticed.

Sorry.

We both have different talents and skills. It often annoys me when people act condescending towards 'typically female' professions such as nursing, midwivery etc...
I think we all know that women simply are better carers, so why should it be a disgrace to act out that talent?
Most of the men I know have got more analytical minds than most of the women I know so how can it be sexist to accept this?

These are all true, albeit only generally, Skweeky; it is important to point that out, otherwise....sexist.

It has now come to a point where, if you don't juggle your career with a couple of kids, a nice house and ca and a loving husband BEHIND you, you didn't succeed as a woman.

Exactly and precisely right-on.

Where's the sense in that?
Why would it be a disgrace to choose between your kids and your career?
It seems that these days, being a full time mum is old fashioned and disrespectuful towards yourself.

Yes, of course I am glad that women and men have the same rights now, but this idea of women HAVING to do the same things as men do is more sexist than anything else.
It doesn't acknowledge femininity

I stand foursquare behind the idea of acknowledgementing femininity!

Huzzah!

[Biggles]

Skweeky, J2

I agree, vive le difference!

The important thing is that people are free to choose what they want to do, be it a career or a more traditional caring role. No one has any business gainsaying their choice - from whichever side.

[j2k4]

The important thing is that people are free to choose what they want to do, be it a career or a more traditional caring role. No one has any business gainsaying their choice - from whichever side.

Aye-that, too.

[Barbarossa]

Tsk, how sexist. Not a single girl in this thread.
My two cents:

I think the progess of feminism has been slowed down my certain feminist movements who wanted equal rights for men and women all the way.
Let me ellaborate on this;

In my opinion, men and women are physically and mentally different beings. Even the structure of our lungs differs.
We both have different talents and skills. It often annoys me when people act condescending towards 'typically female' professions such as nursing, midwivery etc...
I think we all know that women simply are better carers, so why should it be a disgrace to act out that talent?
Most of the men I know have got more analytical minds than most of the women I know so how can it be sexist to accept this?

It has now come to a point where, if you don't juggle your career with a couple of kids, a nice house and ca and a loving husband BEHIND you, you didn't succeed as a woman.

Where's the sense in that?
Why would it be a disgrace to choose between your kids and your career?
It seems that these days, being a full time mum is old fashioned and disrespectuful towards yourself.

Yes, of course I am glad that women and men have the same rights now, but this idea of women HAVING to do the same things as men do is more sexist than anything else.
It doesn't acknowledge femininity

Great post!

What's important today is equality and freedom of choice.