Catholic Church loses fight to discriminate ..

[bigboab]

Tell us your thoughts on the issue then. The reason I will hold back to see what other nations think is to get a consensus of opinion. You are just being pedantic when you suggest wait for Albania. If a consensus agrees with this ruling, then so shall I.

I am sick fed up with this country rushing to adopt EU rules and suggestions. Especially when the majority of the 'laws' favour the minority rather than the majority. If I may go off thread a wee bit. It has just been announced in Scotland that Scottish prisoners are to be given £1000 each because their 'human rights' were violated when they were not allowed to vote in a Scottish election. What about the human rights of their victims?

If you're 'sick fed up' with this country adopting EU rules and suggestions, why are you eager to go with the ruling this time.

Is it because you feel that the consensus will be to your liking.

What the hell are you on? I have said that I would reluctantly accept the ruling if it was against my opinion. As I would with any consensus.

We are never going to agree on this Manker. I dont know if we have opposite opinions on this subject as you seem unwilling to give us your opinion. Everybody does not agree with every law that is passed. They have no option but accept them or elect a government that will rescind them.

Skizo. I am not alone or 'pushing' this. The two main religions in the UK are of the same opinion. I would be willing to bet that the Islamic religion is also against this.

P.S. I am not religious in the 'Faith' sense.

[manker]

If you're 'sick fed up' with this country adopting EU rules and suggestions, why are you eager to go with the ruling this time.

Is it because you feel that the consensus will be to your liking.

What the hell are you on? I have said that I would reluctantly accept the ruling if it was against my opinion. As I would with any consensus.

We are never going to agree on this Manker. I dont know if we have opposite opinions on this subject as you seem unwilling to give us your opinion. Everybody does not agree with every law that is passed. They have no option but accept them or elect a government that will rescind them.

Skizo. I am not alone or 'pushing' this. The two main religions in the UK are of the same opinion. I would be willing to bet that the Islamic religion is also against this.

P.S. I am not religious in the 'Faith' sense.

Oh, well done, Boab. You'll abide by it if it becomes law -- that's a whole different kettle of fish to agreeing with it. Which is what you said in the first instance.

My quarrel with you isn't to do with gay couples adopting, there are legitimate reasons as to why it would be more desirable if a child was housed with heterosexual adoptive parents (but definitely not to the point of disallowing gay adoption altogether) -- it's to do with your downright bigoted opinion that a gay couple would be more likely to sexually abuse a child than a heterosexual couple.

It is a view held by ignorant people.



Oh, and why are you talking to Skizo

[bigboab]

What the hell are you on? I have said that I would reluctantly accept the ruling if it was against my opinion. As I would with any consensus.

We are never going to agree on this Manker. I dont know if we have opposite opinions on this subject as you seem unwilling to give us your opinion. Everybody does not agree with every law that is passed. They have no option but accept them or elect a government that will rescind them.

Skizo. I am not alone or 'pushing' this. The two main religions in the UK are of the same opinion. I would be willing to bet that the Islamic religion is also against this.

P.S. I am not religious in the 'Faith' sense.

Oh, well done, Boab. You'll abide by it if it becomes law -- that's a whole different kettle of fish to agreeing with it. Which is what you said in the first instance.

My quarrel with you isn't to do with gay couples adopting, there are legitimate reasons as to why it would be more desirable if a child was housed with heterosexual adoptive parents (but definitely not to the point of disallowing gay adoption altogether) -- it's to do with your downright bigoted opinion that a gay couple would be more likely to sexually abuse a child than a heterosexual couple.

It is a view held by ignorant people.



Oh, and why are you talking to Skizo

My mistake. I meant 100%. I do make them.

As this is a new concept then we are all ignorant as to the outcome.
What about the children who will lose out if the heads of religions close their Adoption Agencies rather than be forced to comply with the new laws of adoption.

As you seem up to date with the concept of homosexuality and this type of adoption could you advise me on any books to read that would get rid of my ignorance.

[Biggles]

There have been a whole spate of "issues" raised recently associated with religious matters from blooming headscarves, crosses, schools and now adoption.

The Catholic Church is involved in about 4% of adoptions nationwide - not exactly a main player. The question therefore has to be how often would this actually be an issue? It is very hard hard to adopt a child and there are umpteen checks in place. I can't see too many gay couples approaching Muslim of Catholic Bodies in the first instance to explore adoption possibilities given the antipathy they clearly have.

One could argue, therefore that that well known Albanian, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor and others within the Church heirarchy were attempting to undermine a bill with they were fundamentaly opposed to in its entirety.

At the end of the day are older children adopted if they are unhappy with the prospective home? There is a big shortage of young children available for adoption and consequently unlikely to feature prominently in this issue.

Is an older child better off in a home till 16 and left to fend for him/herself thereafter or are they better off with adoptive parents (of whatever hue)? Do they get a say in the matter or are others going to decide regardless of the aspirations of the children?

The sad fact is that if heterosexuals were happy to adopt older children then this would be unlikely to be an issue because there would be no children to adopt. They are not and there are. Those fundandamentally opposed to this should look to themselves and what they are prepared to do rather than complain about what others are prepared to do on behalf of those children.

[vidcc]

I am thinking about the children involved. The abuse the will receive at the school. Make no mistake, other children wont be long in telling and bullying them about their situation.

It's an often used argument but IMO just smoke and mirrors to justify the bigotry
Bullies choose any target. Should we ban mixed race couples, should we ban poor people that can't afford the latest style of sneakers, should we ban people of certain religious beliefs? the list goes on.
No matter what there will always be bullying in schools, that's the nature of children (generalisation). This is because kids are ignorant and yet to learn.

Your argument says we should give in to the bully.

Let's keep the nerdy kids out of school, let's keep the kid with braces or spots out of school.

Perhaps we should ban bigots from being adoptive parents as they are the ones instilling the hatred of anyone different into the children. The kids are not the problem here, the adults are.

Not least, if there is the chance that ONE child could be abused sexually through these adoptions, then that is one child too many.

We are all aware, if not we should be, that paedophiles go out of their way to get in contact with children. Some become Scout Leaders, P.E. Teachers and Music Teachers, some even become Clergymen solely to feed their paedophilic desires.

There has already been cases of children being molested by paedophilic foster parents. At the extreme I can see this as a chance to abuse children on a large, even an organized scale.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5109518.stm?ls

As for the genuine gay couples who would make good parents. To them I say, tough. We are all suffering daily through the actions of minorities.

Sorry Boab but I am with maker on this one. There have been many cases of heterosexual abuse. You are singling out a whole group of people and attaching them to a crime that they have nothing to do with and don't hold the heterosexual parents to the same standard.. I cannot see how that connection could be based on anything other than homophobia.

There is no connection between homosexuality and paedophilia.

[Chip Monk]

Not exactly surprising is it, given that it is entirely consistent with the Churches dogma and teachings .....


Any other stance would actually be a bit mental. "We believe that your lifestyle is wrong ... please have a child.". Nope don't see how that would work. It will be a shame when they are forced to close the agencies rather than compromise their beliefs.

So the homophobic dogma of the catholic church is more important than finding a loving home for an orphaned or abandoned child?

Yup, to them it is. As it is for the Church of England and, as others have stated, almost certainly the Muslim Faith as well. In fact, here's a possibility, could it be that all of the major faiths in this country, if they ran adoption agencies, would take the same stance. I think that's quite likely.

I would be very surprised if any religion which teaches that homosexuality is wrong would also be willing to give children to homosexual couples. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Here's the thing Bill, I have no problem whatsoever with gay couples adopting. Provided they are subject to the same checks as heterosexual couples and that they are suitable to be adoptive parents. However that does not stop me understanding why any group which is opposed to homosexuality would object to assisting them in the adoption process.

[Chip Monk]

Sorry Boab but I am with maker on this one.

Praise the Lord, vidcc has seen the light.

[bigboab]

Sorry Boab but I am with maker on this one.

Praise the Lord, vidcc has seen the light.

One thing in all this that has not been broached, yet. What about the mental abuse to the child in the adopted home. What is the child going to think when their parents are having sex or just petting? Please dont tell me they are not going to notice.

Not off topic. I just found out late last year. I have a very religious nephew who was asked to be stud to two women that stayed together, somehere in England. He duly obliged and they both now have a child. Why did they not approach me first?

[manker]

Oh, well done, Boab. You'll abide by it if it becomes law -- that's a whole different kettle of fish to agreeing with it. Which is what you said in the first instance.

My quarrel with you isn't to do with gay couples adopting, there are legitimate reasons as to why it would be more desirable if a child was housed with heterosexual adoptive parents (but definitely not to the point of disallowing gay adoption altogether) -- it's to do with your downright bigoted opinion that a gay couple would be more likely to sexually abuse a child than a heterosexual couple.

It is a view held by ignorant people.



Oh, and why are you talking to Skizo

My mistake. I meant 100%. I do make them.

As this is a new concept then we are all ignorant as to the outcome.
What about the children who will lose out if the heads of religions close their Adoption Agencies rather than be forced to comply with the new laws of adoption.

As you seem up to date with the concept of homosexuality and this type of adoption could you advise me on any books to read that would get rid of my ignorance.

I'd be a very happy man if I could point toward a book which would completely rid you of homophobia.

Unfortunately, I've never had the need to read such a book and thus know of no such publication.

Maybe you could make a request in Book-world.

[manker]

One thing in all this that has not been broached, yet. What about the mental abuse to the child in the adopted home. What is the child going to think when their parents are having sex or just petting? Please dont tell me they are not going to notice.

You go from bad to worse.

NEWSFLASH!!

Homophobia is not inherent -- it's taught by bigots and learned by the impressionable!


The children will have been brought up by a gay couple so they won't be homophobic. They won't be arsed if their parents display affection for one another.

If an older child is adopted, then I imagine that he or she will already have been told that this may happen and will be prepared for it - cos, like, that's what adoption agencies do.

'Mental abuse'