Will the US or Israel attack Iran?

[Ava Estelle]

If you see East Jerusalem as "illegally occupied territories", then, in your sense, 85% of the Israeli state is illegally "owned"...

Boy, you really are one-sided! Israel invaded the Palestinian territories in 1967 and ILLEGALLY occupied them, including East Jerusalem. Under the terms of the Geneva convention they have no right to annexe any part of the territory taken. They have no right to allow citizens of Israel to build there, and no right to demolish Palestinian homes. Along with these abuses, they also have no right to inflict collective punishment of the Palestinians, something they have done for decades.

Sorry, but during wars things change, and during peace, things change. East Jerusalem is part of the state of Israel.. Fact.

NOT fact ... East Jerusalem is illegally occupied, it is NOT part of the state of Israel, and neither is the Golan Heights. Things do NOT change during wars, that's what the Geneva convention is all about.

And just to let you know.. BBC, and the Sky correspondent to the Middle East (Keith Graves), show the Israelis as the "bad guys" and the Palestinians as the "poor people getting hit for doing nothing".. It's not all showing Israel in the brighter light.

So what? I've already told you I don't watch either of them, and I am old enough and intelligent enough to make up my own mind without TV programs.

[tralalala]

Do you know what the Palestinian territories even are? They are Egypt and Jordan. Up to 1967, the West Bank and East Jerusalem was JORDAN and the Gaza strip was Egypt. They were invaded as part of an unwanted WAR. When Israel wanted to give back Gaza as part of the peace treaty with Egypt they said no. So we were stuck with them. Jordan got water as part of the peace treaty with them, not the land.
So, we now see that the PA is actually not the PA, but bits of other states... Illegally occupied by... who?

You say Israelis cannot build in East Jerusalem.. In which case, none of East Jerusalem residents can build there, as they are ALL Israeli citizens.. by choice. Don't tell me they are not, because each and every oe of them has an Israeli ID card.

The Golan heights ARE part of Israel and have been for 40 years, they were annexed. Syria want them back. Fine.. when the time comes for peace they'll get it, but for the past 40 years Syria and Israel have signed a paper every so long that says no one will attack the other side, keeping a status-quo... Been like that for ages with no problems for 40 years now.

You're old enough to make your mind up... may I ask what helps you make up your mind if not the media?

[Ava Estelle]

Do you know what the Palestinian territories even are?

Talking with you is a complete waste of time. Israel does not write international law, and making people carry ID cards does not make them Israeli citizens. Israel holds all the cards here, if they want peace they should abide by UN resolutions, full stop, if they don't, they deserve all they get, suicide bombers and all. I just hope Iran hurries up with their bomb, then maybe the US and Israel will talk and act peace instead of running around like a couple of bullies stirring up shit and acting like they own the whole fucking world!

[tralalala]

It's funny.. really.. Because over there in Oz, you haven't a clue.. Honestly.. I'm not criticizing or something, it's just you're so far away from all the "action".

If BOTH sides were to abide UN resolutions peace would have been round years ago.. Look at the Lebanese borders for a first about that.

If you went to each and every one of these East Jerusalemites you claim are not Israelis and ask if they would give up their citizenship... you'd get a slap in the face. What they get from the Israeli government is leaps and bounds more than they would dream of getting from an eventual Palestinian State government.

Iran is dangerous.. and until they do something bad people won't understand that. Take 9/11 for an example.. Only when the US got hit under the belt they knew what it felt like with these people. Only then did they realize the potential these people have of wrecking the world. Not only is it dangerous Iran would use the bomb, but also them distributing the technology to terrorist groups round the world... Then, the whole world will know what these people are about, and that they mean business. It's like a kid that wrecks things in class.. if you catch him early he may still grow up to be a good guy.. If you let him on the other hand carry on wrecking stuff, he'll be a terrible mistake later on in life.


Just you wait and see....



P.S: It's not a waste of time talking to me, it's getting to know what someone "in the line of fire" thinks and feels about it. You won't find it easy at all to get me to change my point of view.. In fact, almost impossible. I feel the same towards you. I don't think I'll manage to make you think I'm right, without actually showing you literally. I enjoy these conversations, it lets me exhale my feelings over the situation every now and again..

[Biggles]

Tra la la

I think your English has improved considerably over the years too

[tralalala]

I know... I found myself looking at the Israel/Palestine thread that was started by kAb some 4 years ago... amazing.. Thanks

I suppose good English could help me if I'm not accepted into the Air Force.. I guess I could always try for the Intelligence units in Israel and/or abroad (like the Mossad.. I guess it's equivalent to the British MI6). But I still have time for that, I need to finish my school studies first (and successfully ).


What's your input on this subject (Israel/Palestine) in response to me and Ava's discussion? What about the Iranian subject?



P.S (Offtopic) - How long have you had that picture in your sig..? seems to be as long as I can remember

[j2k4]

Explain coherently why in my case it is a benighted "right-wing prejudice", but in your case it is the vision of the anointed?

Well it's nice of you to bestow that title on me, but that's not how I see it, and my left-wing mates call me right of centre, I see things that I don't consider fair, and don't give a fuck who I upset by pointing them out.

I haven't bestowed anything at all on you, though that is plainly how you see yourself.

I see things as well that I don't consider to be fair, and am not the least bit worried who I piss off by pointing them out.

Insofar as that is true, we are quite the same, yet my question goes unanswered.

You tag me as a right-winger and imply that my opinions are thus invalid, while characterizing yourself as a free-thinking intellectual colossus whose mental emanations are the stuff of light and air.

You challenge me to find a Pilger piece I agree with; I can assure you he's probably written about something that concerns me as it does him, though perhaps not in quite the same way.

You, on the other hand, have opposed me on literally every point I've tried to make during our mutual history here, save a singular agreement about one Bill Gates, which fact, considering your anti-capitalist bent, I marvel over to this very day.

Now, I may be wrong on occasion, more-or-less depending on your political views, but I don't think anyone here would venture that I have been wrong as often as you would have them think.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but you should acknowledge you are aware that that is all they are, and to use them as cudgels is not an apt strategy for influencing others, which is, after all, why we do this, right?

[Mr JP Fugley]

There's a story that The Mossad were responsible for assasinating one of the scientists working on the Iranian nuclear programme. That was about a month ago.

[bigboab]

P.S (Offtopic) - How long have you had that picture in your sig..? seems to be as long as I can remember

Rafi, that is Biggles. I have seen him on a Saturday night in Kilmarnock.

[j2k4]

There's a story that The Mossad were responsible for assasinating one of the scientists working on the Iranian nuclear programme. That was about a month ago.

If I say I'll accept that your story about this story is true without demanding a google, would you mind at all (at all).

I'm sure the U.N. would object to it, but I'm likewise sure the U.N. is not quite so concerned over the issue of survival.