hit n run

[QuickJelly]

-People get high ratios to buffer accounts, feel good about themselves for sharing, and other reasons. They rarely if ever get high ratios because other people don't seed.

No, for someone to have 1.5 ratio, another person has to have a .05 ratio. that's how the bittorrent works. Leechers and hit n' runners enable seeders to have high ratios. This is not all positive because leechers force people to give more then they take, and if people dont want to seed that much then hit n' runners can disrupt the balance on a torrent.

Sure, the speeds at those trackers isn't bad, thanks to some power members with good pipes. However, it would be even faster if people didn't hit n' run. It's basic logic,

more seeders = better speeds
more hit n' runs = less seeders = worse speeds.

-bitmetv, oink, sct, hdbits or tl all have very old torrents.

Same with this, the torrents would last longer if nobody did hit n' runs.

[mforcex]

-People have a high ratio because they want to. They aren't forced to because some person decided not to seed. People with high ratios are getting people banned or hindering them. People with a 5.0 ratio+ continue to maintain their ratio, and because of this, someone who wants to just get 1.0 doesn't have that option some of the time. You said it yourself, for someone to have 1.5, someone must have 0.5. You are wrong in assuming that the 0.5 person always wants to be 0.5, and that he doesn't strive for more. People should be limited on how high their ratio can be so other people are given a chance to not be banned. Since you enjoy basic logic:
If Max Upload Speed > Max Download Speed for the total swarm, then your point about more seeds = better speeds is null and void. At SCT, people HNR, and your connection is always maxed.

The sites I listed have old torrents, they have everything you can possibly have. How can they last longer if people didn't hit and run when there is no issue of dying torrents?

I think the difference between you and me is this: I joined some of the best torrent sites, and you are stuck on shitty new sites like midnight torrents.

[KevinGarnet]

Hit and run is good system.. people seed torrents.. so i think it is very good system.. a lot of trackers allow this system..

[Daniel]

Well, QuickJelly you're talking a little bit beside the point here with alive times of torrents but nevertheless, let me say a few words to that. More important than hit and running is the global ratio requirement because the download of older torrents is always a guarantee to take a ratio hit. The higher your ratio needs to be, the less people are inclined to download older stuff - maybe because they just can't afford it with their account. In the long term, this means less leechers which means less seeders as well.

If a tracker wants attractive speeds, then those people with the fastest connections will have to over-seed in order to provide it, there's no way around this calculation. Most people can seed back over time but what the leecher is interested in are ideally speeds of a few hundred kb/s and that's something you won't get from a few users with average connections. So if you discount the question as to WHY those seeders with fast pipes are over-seeding on their own account, then you're left with the dilemma where to set the minimum ratio. The lower this value is, the less over-seeding is harmful and the higher it is, the more difficult it will be for the average users to maintain their ratios.

You're left with two choices: do you want a particularly fair tracker where everyone stays as close to 1.0 as possible or do you want a tracker that offers faster speeds?

[QuickJelly]

People with high ratios are getting people banned or hindering them

Well that breaks down to a discussion abouth whether or not high speed seeders "steal" the slower people's ratios when they compete about the seeding. This is partially true because as we know most BT clients strive to connect to the peers who sends the most data. But dispite this feature the slower seeders can manage to upload some data and seed to a 1.0 ratio on almost all torrents. So slow seeding peers can reach a 1:1 ratio, it just takes longer for them to do so.

If Max Upload Speed > Max Download Speed for the total swarm, then your point about more seeds = better speeds is null and void

But that will almost never happen since people dont have balanced connections. Example: 10mb down 1 mb up is a fairly common connection. So for that to happen there would have to be a vast ammount of seeders and not many leechers. At that point it's better if the high speed seeders leave and allow the low speed seeders to seed some too. Since the ammount of leechers isn't very high it wont effect the download speed for them, and the high speed seeders most likely already have a good ratio for that torrent so they dont have to seed anymore.

We all know how most torrents go through different stages, from the initial seeding stage where to the almost-dead-stage.

Stage 1 - fresh torrent under an hour or a couple of hours old
At this point every seeder gets upload and everyone of them help make sure that the speed is good for the other leechers. This stage might not last very long depending on how fast the initial uploader is, it might be that everyone has finished about 98% of the file and as soon as one person reaches 100% everyone else does in a couple of seconds. But in most cases you need as many seeders as possible at this stage to get the torrent going and ensure high speeds.

Stage 2 - torrent is more then a couple of hours old
This is the stage when there's far more seeders than leechers. At this stage most high speed seeders drop off since they dont get much upload anymore. After that, the low speed seeders have a chance to seed some upload as well. On trackers like FTN and ScT people are highly motivated to get a ratio as good as possible - so they don't drop off from seeding. This is of course a problem since it creates an unbalanced torrent. At this stage, a tracker like bitmetv or FTN benefit from allowing hit n' run since it reduces the amount of seeders when they are no longer needed.

Stage 3 - torrent is between a couple of days to a couple of weeks old
Then comes the final stage before the torrent dies. At this stage a torrent might have 2 seeders and 3 leechers, or 2 seeders or 1 leecher. Since the swarm is so small one single hit n' run could kill the torrent and leave other peers hanging at 50% or something like that. Obviously at this point hit n' runs are not good. This is what I mean when I say that hit n' runners reduce the lifetime of a torrent. You might say that a seeder could seed forever on an old torrent without ever reaching a 1:1 ratio because nobody want to leech and then become the lone seeder of an almost dead torrent. This leads me to my next point.

What is a hit n' run and what isn't is not always determinde only by ratio, most trackers also have 48 hour rule. So if you've been seeding for 48 hours you can leave without commiting a hit n' run. This rule makes it very easy to not hit n' run, so there's no real excuse for doing it if you ask me.

So, the only reason as to why some people get high ratios is because other don't seed. Instead someone else sees for them. High speed seeders do not make it impossible for other seeders to get a 1:1 ratio. The only person who would not be able to get such a ratio is the absolute last snatcher.

Trackers like ScT and bitmetv benefit from allowing hit n' runs, but only at stage 2. Because at this stage you want to reduce the ammount of seeders. But not all trackers are like ScT and Bitmetv. Those sites are hard to get in to and people really dont want to end up banned because of low ratio. So they seed till they bleed. Sct and bitmetv only represent about 0.5% of all the trackers out there so while it might be a good rule for them is certainly isn't for the majority of trackers.

I think the difference between you and me is this: I joined some of the best torrent sites, and you are stuck on shitty new sites like midnight torrents.

sure...

[mforcex]

At this stage, a tracker like bitmetv or FTN benefit from allowing hit n' run since it reduces the amount of seeders when they are no longer needed.

LOL you wrote FTN and HNR in the same sentence. FTN will ban you for HNR, that is why no one leeches there.

These HNR rules, like seed 48 hours, good job, you prolonged the torrents life for 48 hours, then it will die, unless someone takes his place which is unlikely. I think old torrents at BMTV/SCT have 3-6 seeders at least. Wouldn't you rather have the torrents life prolonged because people want to seed, instead of threatening to ban them?

SCT/BMTV are rare, as you said, and they are simply amazing in many ways. Things at these 2 sites are run differently, and because of it, they can do things that other sites can't, which makes them that much better.

I think we can both agree the following is true:
I'm against HNR policies because I enjoy sites like BMTV/SCT which are in a class of their own. You are for HNR policies on sites that require it to survive (new sites, sites with a small user base).

[sear]

quit hijacking, this thread is about what sites allow hit and run

looks like it's a bit late for that