Well a lot of people seem to have questions on Lossless Audio and I was requested to make a forum topic (that hopefully becomes a STICKY) to explain what lossless audio is.Originally Posted by Saroman
Now most of you (or all of you) are familiar with the MP3 format. This is a lossy format meaning, during the "ripping" process, a lot of data is discarded to keep the file size small and manageable. Now the higher the bitrate of the mp3 file, the larger the file (and the better the quality). Hence 192kbps mp3's will be smaller than 320kbps. Most people will be able to distinguish the quality between a 128kbps mp3 and a 320kbps mp3.
Now let's take it to the the next level. This of lossless audio as an mp3 with bit rates up to 1000kbps or even higher. Ok that explanation isn't really accurate but it's a simple way of looking at it.
What lossless audio really is, is audio that is lossless! During the "ripping" process (i.e., when you rip the audio from a CD to a file) the ripping program will convert the audio on the CD to wav format. This wav file is essentially a lossless format and the ripping program has not discarded any information from the audio on the CD.
Now this field of audio encoding and decoding is kinda too complex for this little forum and most people don't care about the science behind lossy and lossless encoding algorithms. If you do care, google itBut here's a link to start you off:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_data_co...ess_compression
QUESTION 1: Why do I want ANYTHING in lossless format anyway?
Answer: Because it's like listening to the CD itself. Assuming you did buy the CD and let's say your best friend happened to use it as a coaster for his steaming hot cup of hot chocolate and then spilled it all over your favourite CD, you could go to your local CD store to pick it up. But let's say it's discontinued. What do you do? Look for the lossless version on TTThat way you can recreate the CD from scratch by burning it using Nero. Since it is lossless, you are getting a copy of the CD in it's store bought format - perfect!
QUESTION 2: Why are they so large?
Answer: Because there is no data discarded.
QUESTION 3: What are the different types of lossless formats? I see APE, FLAC....what's going on? I am confused!!!
Answer: OK there are a TONNE of lossless formats out there. Unless you plan on encoding a bunch of CD's in lossless format and plan on using it over different platforms, you don't have to worry about most of these formats here. (If you really are interested in all the lossless formats out there and plan on writing a thesis on it, care, check out this website: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...less_comparison
If you are just here because you want to be among the TT elite, ignore that site and keep reading!)
As far you, the TT leecher are concerned, we will only be dealiing with these lossless formats, in order of popularity:
FLAC, APE, WAVEPACK
THAT'S IT.
QUOTE
FLAC
http://flac.sourceforge.net/
FLAC is a lossless codec developed by Josh Coalson. It's part of the Xiph multimedia portfolio, along with Ogg Vorbis and Theora.
FLAC PROS
� � * Open source
� � * Very fast decoding
� � * Hardware support (Karma, Phatbox, etc.)
� � * Very good software support
� � * Error robustness
� � * Streaming support
� � * Supports multichannel audio and high resolutions
� � * Tagging support (FLAC tags)
� � * Pipe support
� � * ReplayGain compatible
FLAC CONS
� � * Relatively slow encoding
� � * No hybrid/lossy mode
� � * Doesn't support RIFF chunks
FLAC Other features
� � * Supports embedded CUE sheets (with limitations)
� � * Includes MD5 hashes for quick integrity checking
� � * Fits the Ogg and Matroska containers
APE
Monkey's Audio
http://www.monkeysaudio.com/
Monkey's Audio is a very efficient lossless compressor developed by Matt Ashland.
APE PROS
� � * Open source
� � * High efficiency
� � * Good software support
� � * Java version (multiplatform)
� � * Tagging support (ID3v1, APE tags)
� � * High resolution audio support
� � * Supports RIFF chunks (only in the GUI encoder)
� � * Pipe support (only in a special version)
APE CONS
� � * No multichannel support
� � * No hybrid/lossy mode
� � * No hardware support
� � * No error robustness
� � * Doesn't support ReplayGain
Wavpack
WavPack
http://www.wavpack.com/
WavPack is a fast and featureful lossless codec developed by David Bryant.
Get the Wavpack front end herehttp://members.home.nl/w.speek/wavpack.htm
WV PROS
� � * Open source
� � * Very fast decoding
� � * Good efficiency
� � * Error robustness
� � * Streaming support
� � * Hardware support (RockBox)
� � * Supports multichannel audio and high resolutions
� � * Hybrid/lossy mode
� � * Tagging support (ID3v1, APE tags)
� � * Supports RIFF chunks
� � * Ability to create self extracting files for Win32 platform
� � * Pipe support
� � * Good software support
� � * ReplayGain compatible
WV CONS
� � * No cons
WV Other features
� � * Supports 32bit float streams
� � * Supports embedded CUE sheets
� � * Includes MD5 hashes for quick integrity checking
� � * Can encode in both symmetrical and assymmetrical modes.
� � * Fits the Matroska container
If you are scratching your head don't worry, read on.
QUESTION 4: OK OK .. So there are three main formats TT uses. What's the most popular and why?
Answer: FLAC is the most popular because it transcends all platforms as far as I know and it is supported by hardware digital audio players like the Rio Karma. If you want to release something, do it in FLAC! However, releases in APE and WAVEPAC format can be uncompressed and recompressed in FLAC because, guess what, it's all lossless! All you need is the front end decoder from the websites of the respective authors of the format and a push of a few buttons will decompress the thing to wav. Then you can re-encode it to whatever format you like.
(on a side note, if you use foobar2000 from www.foobar2000.org, and you have downloaded all the codecs from the lossless audio sites, you would be able to convert from one format to the other directly in foobar. For more on that check out www.foobar2000.org)
QUESTION 5: I didn't read the FAQ above because I am too damn lazy. Just give me the links as to what I have to download and from where!!!
Answer: OK you lazy bastard. Here it is
FLAC download page: http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html
NOTE: Several virus scanners are reporting that FLAC contains a trojan; this is a FALSE POSITIVE.
APE download page: http://www.monkeysaudio.com/download.html
WAVEPACK download page: http://www.wavpack.com/downloads.html
QUESTION 6: AWESOME. I see all the plugins in those links above. So technically all I do is, download and install the frontend/plugin and winamp or foobar2000 should be able to play them?
Answer: YES FINALLY YOU GET IT!!!!
QUESTION 7: How do I make a lossless backup of my CD's?
ANSWER: Read on here:
EXACT AUDIO COPY QUICKSTART MANUAL
http://users.pandora.be/satcp/eac-qs-en.htm
QUESTION 8: Why do some people say they can't hear a difference between mp3's that are 320kbps and lossless?
Answer: Well, unless you have dog ears or supersonic hearing equipment, you won't be able to pick out MUCH difference. Personally I have found slight differences between the two and definitely prefer the lossless. However the point of lossless encoding is NOT only higher quality audio but to reproduce exact copies of the original recording.
(on a side note: higher quality equipment like a decent sound card, good headphones or speakers etc. does help you feel the difference)
QUESTION 9: OK but how do I setup EAC for an exact 100% rip?
Answer: Again I will quote...
QUOTE (Secta)
Since we all prefer lossless formats here, rips from CD should be not just without audible artifacts but 100% identical to the original. Otherwise, there's no sense in lossless at all. That's why I've decided to write a short 'How-To' on proper configuring of EAC.
Here are settings that need to be properly configured:
EAC-> EAC options-> Extraction
[v] Fill up missing offset samples with silence
[ ] No use of null samples for CRC calculations
[v] Synchronize between tracks
[ ] Delete leading and trailing silent blocks
Error recovery quality: [High]
EAC-> EAC Options-> Tools
[v] Retrieve UPC/ISRC codes in CUE sheet generation (only if CD-drive supports gap Detection method A. Enabling this option is the only way to make an exact copy.)
[v] Use CD-Text information in CUE sheet generation
[v] Automatically write status report after extraction
[ ] Activate beginner mode, disable all advanced features
EAC-> EAC Options-> Normalize
[ ] Normalize
Never ever use this option. Keep it disabled by all means!
EAC-> EAC Options-> Interface[*] Installed external ASPI interface
- before setting up this option you should download Nero's WINASPI32.DLL (from ftp://ftp6.nero.com/wnaspi32.dll)� and put it in EAC's folder
EAC-> Drive Options-> Extraction Method
- insert in your CD drive any audio disc and press Detect Read Features button. If Accurate Stream was NO, then do not use this drive for audio extraction!
If Accurate Stream was detected (Yes), then set the following options this way (no matter what results were shown in Analyzing window):[*] Secure mode with following drive features:
[v] Drive has 'Accurate Stream' feature
[v] Drive caches audio data
[ ] Drive is capable of Retrieving C2 error information
EAC-> Drive Options-> Drive
Drive read command - insert any audio CD in your drive and press Autodetect read command now button
EAC-> Drive Options-> Offset / Speed
For most exact copy of audio CD it's recommended to use read sample offset correction. To understand the importance of offset correction please read The Truth About Offsets article here. Read SatCP's comprehensive gude on how to determine offsets here.[*] Use read sample offset correction [Optional]
Enter determined value, otherwise leave default settings (zero).
[v] Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out [Optional]
Use this only if your drive support this feature and if you've set custom (not default) value for read sample offset correction
[v] Allow speed reduction during extraction
EAC-> Drive Options-> Gap Detection
Gap/Index retrival method: [Detection method A]
- press OK to save settings and try to detect gaps of inserted audio CD: Action-> Detect Gaps (F4). If EAC seems to take forever to detect the gaps or the detection process locks up after a few tracks, the detection method you've choosen is not optimal for your drive. Try choosing Detection method B or C.
Detection accuracy: [Secure]
Well a lot of people seem to have questions on Lossless Audio and I was requested to make a forum topic (that hopefully becomes a STICKY) to explain what lossless audio is.
Now most of you (or all of you) are familiar with the MP3 format. This is a lossy format meaning, during the "ripping" process, a lot of data is discarded to keep the file size small and manageable. Now the higher the bitrate of the mp3 file, the larger the file (and the better the quality). Hence 192kbps mp3's will be smaller than 320kbps. Most people will be able to distinguish the quality between a 128kbps mp3 and a 320kbps mp3.
Now let's take it to the the next level. This of lossless audio as an mp3 with bit rates up to 1000kbps or even higher. Ok that explanation isn't really accurate but it's a simple way of looking at it.
What lossless audio really is, is audio that is lossless! During the "ripping" process (i.e., when you rip the audio from a CD to a file) the ripping program will convert the audio on the CD to wav format. This wav file is essentially a lossless format and the ripping program has not discarded any information from the audio on the CD.
Now this field of audio encoding and decoding is kinda too complex for this little forum and most people don't care about the science behind lossy and lossless encoding algorithms. If you do care, google it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_data_co...ess_compression
QUESTION 1: Why do I want ANYTHING in lossless format anyway?
Answer: Because it's like listening to the CD itself. Assuming you did buy the CD and let's say your best friend happened to use it as a coaster for his steaming hot cup of hot chocolate and then spilled it all over your favourite CD, you could go to your local CD store to pick it up. But let's say it's discontinued. What do you do? Look for the lossless version on TT
QUESTION 2: Why are they so large?
Answer: Because there is no data discarded.
QUESTION 3: What are the different types of lossless formats? I see APE, FLAC....what's going on? I am confused!!!
Answer: OK there are a TONNE of lossless formats out there. Unless you plan on encoding a bunch of CD's in lossless format and plan on using it over different platforms, you don't have to worry about most of these formats here. (If you really are interested in all the lossless formats out there and plan on writing a thesis on it, care, check out this website: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...less_comparison
If you are just here because you want to be among the TT elite, ignore that site and keep reading!
As far you, the TT leecher are concerned, we will only be dealiing with these lossless formats, in order of popularity:
FLAC, APE, WAVEPACK
THAT'S IT.
QUOTE
FLAC
http://flac.sourceforge.net/
FLAC is a lossless codec developed by Josh Coalson. It's part of the Xiph multimedia portfolio, along with Ogg Vorbis and Theora.
FLAC PROS
� � * Open source
� � * Very fast decoding
� � * Hardware support (Karma, Phatbox, etc.)
� � * Very good software support
� � * Error robustness
� � * Streaming support
� � * Supports multichannel audio and high resolutions
� � * Tagging support (FLAC tags)
� � * Pipe support
� � * ReplayGain compatible
FLAC CONS
� � * Relatively slow encoding
� � * No hybrid/lossy mode
� � * Doesn't support RIFF chunks
FLAC Other features
� � * Supports embedded CUE sheets (with limitations)
� � * Includes MD5 hashes for quick integrity checking
� � * Fits the Ogg and Matroska containers
APE
Monkey's Audio
http://www.monkeysaudio.com/
Monkey's Audio is a very efficient lossless compressor developed by Matt Ashland.
APE PROS
� � * Open source
� � * High efficiency
� � * Good software support
� � * Java version (multiplatform)
� � * Tagging support (ID3v1, APE tags)
� � * High resolution audio support
� � * Supports RIFF chunks (only in the GUI encoder)
� � * Pipe support (only in a special version)
APE CONS
� � * No multichannel support
� � * No hybrid/lossy mode
� � * No hardware support
� � * No error robustness
� � * Doesn't support ReplayGain
Wavpack
WavPack
http://www.wavpack.com/
WavPack is a fast and featureful lossless codec developed by David Bryant.
Get the Wavpack front end herehttp://members.home.nl/w.speek/wavpack.htm
WV PROS
� � * Open source
� � * Very fast decoding
� � * Good efficiency
� � * Error robustness
� � * Streaming support
� � * Hardware support (RockBox)
� � * Supports multichannel audio and high resolutions
� � * Hybrid/lossy mode
� � * Tagging support (ID3v1, APE tags)
� � * Supports RIFF chunks
� � * Ability to create self extracting files for Win32 platform
� � * Pipe support
� � * Good software support
� � * ReplayGain compatible
WV CONS
� � * No cons
WV Other features
� � * Supports 32bit float streams
� � * Supports embedded CUE sheets
� � * Includes MD5 hashes for quick integrity checking
� � * Can encode in both symmetrical and assymmetrical modes.
� � * Fits the Matroska container
If you are scratching your head don't worry, read on.
QUESTION 4: OK OK .. So there are three main formats TT uses. What's the most popular and why?
Answer: FLAC is the most popular because it transcends all platforms as far as I know and it is supported by hardware digital audio players like the Rio Karma. If you want to release something, do it in FLAC! However, releases in APE and WAVEPAC format can be uncompressed and recompressed in FLAC because, guess what, it's all lossless! All you need is the front end decoder from the websites of the respective authors of the format and a push of a few buttons will decompress the thing to wav. Then you can re-encode it to whatever format you like.
(on a side note, if you use foobar2000 from www.foobar2000.org, and you have downloaded all the codecs from the lossless audio sites, you would be able to convert from one format to the other directly in foobar. For more on that check out www.foobar2000.org)
QUESTION 5: I didn't read the FAQ above because I am too damn lazy. Just give me the links as to what I have to download and from where!!!
Answer: OK you lazy bastard. Here it is
FLAC download page: http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html
NOTE: Several virus scanners are reporting that FLAC contains a trojan; this is a FALSE POSITIVE.
APE download page: http://www.monkeysaudio.com/download.html
WAVEPACK download page: http://www.wavpack.com/downloads.html
QUESTION 6: AWESOME. I see all the plugins in those links above. So technically all I do is, download and install the frontend/plugin and winamp or foobar2000 should be able to play them?
Answer: YES FINALLY YOU GET IT!!!!
QUESTION 7: How do I make a lossless backup of my CD's?
ANSWER: Read on here:
EXACT AUDIO COPY QUICKSTART MANUAL
http://users.pandora.be/satcp/eac-qs-en.htm
QUESTION 8: Why do some people say they can't hear a difference between mp3's that are 320kbps and lossless?
Answer: Well, unless you have dog ears or supersonic hearing equipment, you won't be able to pick out MUCH difference. Personally I have found slight differences between the two and definitely prefer the lossless. However the point of lossless encoding is NOT only higher quality audio but to reproduce exact copies of the original recording.
(on a side note: higher quality equipment like a decent sound card, good headphones or speakers etc. does help you feel the difference
QUESTION 9: OK but how do I setup EAC for an exact 100% rip?
Answer: Again I will quote...
QUOTE (Secta)
Since we all prefer lossless formats here, rips from CD should be not just without audible artifacts but 100% identical to the original. Otherwise, there's no sense in lossless at all. That's why I've decided to write a short 'How-To' on proper configuring of EAC.
Here are settings that need to be properly configured:
EAC-> EAC options-> Extraction
[v] Fill up missing offset samples with silence
[ ] No use of null samples for CRC calculations
[v] Synchronize between tracks
[ ] Delete leading and trailing silent blocks
Error recovery quality: [High]
EAC-> EAC Options-> Tools
[v] Retrieve UPC/ISRC codes in CUE sheet generation (only if CD-drive supports gap Detection method A. Enabling this option is the only way to make an exact copy.)
[v] Use CD-Text information in CUE sheet generation
[v] Automatically write status report after extraction
[ ] Activate beginner mode, disable all advanced features
EAC-> EAC Options-> Normalize
[ ] Normalize
Never ever use this option. Keep it disabled by all means!
EAC-> EAC Options-> Interface[*] Installed external ASPI interface
- before setting up this option you should download Nero's WINASPI32.DLL (from ftp://ftp6.nero.com/wnaspi32.dll)� and put it in EAC's folder
EAC-> Drive Options-> Extraction Method
- insert in your CD drive any audio disc and press Detect Read Features button. If Accurate Stream was NO, then do not use this drive for audio extraction!
If Accurate Stream was detected (Yes), then set the following options this way (no matter what results were shown in Analyzing window):[*] Secure mode with following drive features:
[v] Drive has 'Accurate Stream' feature
[v] Drive caches audio data
[ ] Drive is capable of Retrieving C2 error information
EAC-> Drive Options-> Drive
Drive read command - insert any audio CD in your drive and press Autodetect read command now button
EAC-> Drive Options-> Offset / Speed
For most exact copy of audio CD it's recommended to use read sample offset correction. To understand the importance of offset correction please read The Truth About Offsets article here. Read SatCP's comprehensive gude on how to determine offsets here.[*] Use read sample offset correction [Optional]
Enter determined value, otherwise leave default settings (zero).
[v] Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out [Optional]
Use this only if your drive support this feature and if you've set custom (not default) value for read sample offset correction
[v] Allow speed reduction during extraction
EAC-> Drive Options-> Gap Detection
Gap/Index retrival method: [Detection method A]
- press OK to save settings and try to detect gaps of inserted audio CD: Action-> Detect Gaps (F4). If EAC seems to take forever to detect the gaps or the detection process locks up after a few tracks, the detection method you've choosen is not optimal for your drive. Try choosing Detection method B or C.
Detection accuracy: [Secure](Courtesy of TT - Forum)
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