Israel & Palestine

[clocker]

Originally posted by noname12@27 September 2003 - 21:54


Edit: typo

Although I found you post to be rich in humor and irony (unintended, I presume), the above quote is easily the high point.

Please stop, you're killing me.

[Billy_Dean]

I didn't think it would take long to get personal, Clocko, you don't disappoint. When will people who use English as their first language stop picking on spelling and grammar mistakes of those who don't?

If what was happening in Israel\Palestine was what we are being told, this debate would be simpler. It doesn't take much working out to see that there is also a secret, covert operation going on here. Noname touched on it with his Mossad remarks.

The MO of the west, the UK and US in particular, is "instability". The British have used the tactic for centuries to control whole regions, not just countries. The SAS, for instance are "officially" active in 35 countries around the world. Looking at the list, there are at least five others that I know of where they operate, Palestine is one of them. Wherever the UK government perceives it's interests to be at risk, they go there.

I can see no way that Sharon can deliver peace when he is kept in power by ultra orthadox jews, who want all Palestinians out of the whole of Palestine, and by settlers who have stolen 46% of Palestinian land since 1967. He will carry on making war, regardless of public opinion. This is the reason we call on the US to tighten the purse strings. If they had the will, they could easily obtain peace. Makes me wonder if they really do want it, or if instability is really their goal.

[Billy_Dean]

Hobbes

As for the current posts, I was merely relaying the other side of the coin to the forum. EBP claims that J2 was being malicious and deceptive, I wanted to show that his intention was to be neither, he made a mistake.
....

As for defending my countrymen, are you not from the UK (although living in Australia currently) just like EBP? Could you be doing the same? Or are we to find that people of similar upbringing hold similar viewpoints?



PS: I notice that you have joined ShockandAwe in saluting Pink Floyd. I always knew you two were tight friends!

My take on your first point was, that j2k4 was being a smartarse, nothing unusual there.

I am from the UK, yes, I left 24 years ago. My politics tho, are mine, not Britain's nor Australia's. No-one who knows me would say I defend or attack any point of view because of a person's nationality. I am a cynic by nature, I don't believe anything told me by governments.

I haven't met ShockandAwe, but if he's into Pink Floyd, he must be a special person.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@28 September 2003 - 08:34

My take on your first point was, that j2k4 was being a smartarse, nothing unusual there.

I am from the UK, yes, I left 24 years ago.  My politics tho, are mine, not Britain's nor Australia's. No-one who knows me would say I defend or attack any point of view because of a person's nationality.  I am a cynic by nature, I don't believe anything told me by governments.

I haven't met ShockandAwe, but if he's into Pink Floyd, he must be a special person.

"No-one who knows me would say I defend or attack any point of view because of a person's nationality". Me neither. Seems this point is a draw..

Everyone is into Pink Floyd, myself included, or I wouldn't have known the song you are quoting in your signature.

So many people think that Floyd is about drugs and disrespect of authority, and as long as they don't listen to the lyrics they will live in their misinformed reality.

[Billy_Dean]

Originally posted by hobbes@28 September 2003 - 16:52
So many people think that Floyd is about drugs and disrespect of authority, and as long as they don't listen to the lyrics they will live in their misinformed reality.

SSHHH! Don't tell everyone!

[ilw]

I would have said that the MO of the UK & US governments was exactly the opposite, any country they have to deal with they crave stability and friendship. As you are so fond of pointing out they have installed lots of dictators in their time and imho dictators tend to run much more stable countries (generally corrupt and brutal, but stable). Maybe in some instances they've temporarily destabilised areas which are unfriendly, but i would guess that they usually have plans or can see an easy way in which the area will again stabilise, this time as friends

[clocker]

The MO of the west, the UK and US in particular, is "instability". The British have used the tactic for centuries to control whole regions, not just countries. The SAS, for instance are "officially" active in 35 countries around the world. Looking at the list, there are at least five others that I know of where they operate, Palestine is one of them. Wherever the UK government perceives it's interests to be at risk, they go there.

This observation completely ignores the fact that the instability in Palestine is also precipitated by the interest of Libya, Iran and good old Yasser Arafat himself. In a stable and peaceful Palestine would Arafat have the means to land on the Forbes list of the top ten wealthiest Kings, Queens and Despots? He placed # 6, BTW, with a (conservatively) estimated personal fortune of $300 million. Not bad for a "freedom fighter" who is supposedly working for the betterment of his people- some 30-40% of whom live below the poverty level. Oddly absent from your repeated calls for US pressure on Israel is the request for Arafat to step down.

I can see no way that Sharon can deliver peace when he is kept in power by ultra orthadox jews, who want all Palestinians out of the whole of Palestine, and by settlers who have stolen 46% of Palestinian land since 1967. He will carry on making war, regardless of public opinion. This is the reason we call on the US to tighten the purse strings. If they had the will, they could easily obtain peace. Makes me wonder if they really do want it, or if instability is really their goal.

Again the one-sided insistance that the US and Sharon are the only factors preventing peace in the region. Should a peaceful settlement occur, how would Arafat and his PLO heirarchy disguise the fact that they have been systematically diverting money from international aid funds to their own use? How could they justify the bloated and corrupt bureaucracy that has served as a personal feeding trough for over 20 years?

[lynx]

Originally posted by ilw@28 September 2003 - 12:52
Maybe in some instances they've temporarily destabilised areas which are unfriendly, but i would guess that they usually have plans or can see an easy way in which the area will again stabilise, this time as friends

I think that was the point of Billy's argument (although I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment behind it), and of course if there is likely to be no chance of creating a 'friendly' environment in the short term, then long term destabilisation would be the aim.

[Billy_Dean]

Originally posted by ilw@28 September 2003 - 21:52
I would have said that the MO of the UK & US governments was exactly the opposite, any country they have to deal with they crave stability and friendship. As you are so fond of pointing out they have installed lots of dictators in their time and imho dictators tend to run much more stable countries (generally corrupt and brutal, but stable). Maybe in some instances they've temporarily destabilised areas which are unfriendly, but i would guess that they usually have plans or can see an easy way in which the area will again stabilise, this time as friends

ilw the British work on DEstabilization. Read up on it, don't guess. Some examples for you; Iran, Afghanistan Pakistan, Kasmir, India, Burma, South Africa, Zimbabwe, the list is endless.

I can't give you links to info I use, you have to suscribe. I'll point you to some tho', you can Google plenty of info yourself if you find the right keywords.

Executive Intelligence Review

Read especially ...

The SAS: Prince Philip's manager of terrorism.

and..

London's assault on the nation-state


There's much more going on than people realise.

[noname12]

I edit my post no depending on spelling or grammar but on what words I totally mess up and cant be understood, I use english alot, just cant be bothered to learn all the rules and spellings. you pretty much got the point of my post, so whats the problem.