"Don't you hope Obama succeeds?"

[The Flying Cow]

What I see is that europeans with money come to the US for care.

Also true.

[devilsadvocate]

You know for every horror story one comes up with about social medicine the same examples can be found in our system and vice versa. People with insurance here are denied treatment by their insurance companies all the time. Choice here comes with ability to pay. Waiting times are shorter here because so many can't afford to be in the queue and go untreated. There is no difference in emergency waiting times.
I see Americans going to other countries for operations because it's cheaper and the quality is equal or in some cases better. I read some insurance companies even offer to pay travel cost because it saves them money.
The USA comes so far down the list not because of the standard of treatment but because of the limited access.

[The Flying Cow]

Right, but in standard of treatment, I'll tell you right out of the bat, socialist care is bollocks.

We have too many doctors, the state hospitals are flooded with them (hello public debt), they are careless and rude to patients, patients have to wait sometimes years, unless, of course, you have a way of getting ahead in the queue (knowing someone, who knows someone, who was flirted with by someone in a bar one night, who is the cousin of the man in charge of door-keeping someone else's neighbor's chihuahua), not to mention that the system isn't free, per se. It is cheaper, definitely not free. I got "treated" for my injured knee, and it still hurts 3 months later. I doubt they actually diagnosed the issue properly, even after 2 radiograms taken.

[pentomato]

You know for every horror story one comes up with about social medicine the same examples can be found in our system and vice versa. People with insurance here are denied treatment by their insurance companies all the time. Choice here comes with ability to pay. Waiting times are shorter here because so many can't afford to be in the queue and go untreated. There is no difference in emergency waiting times.
I see Americans going to other countries for operations because it's cheaper and the quality is equal or in some cases better. I read some insurance companies even offer to pay travel cost because it saves them money.
The USA comes so far down the list not because of the standard of treatment but because of the limited access.

I know there is a lot of true to that, but in this country even medicaid, the federal and state health insurance is great, and any hospital or clinic that receives federal dollars, by law they have to help you any way.
Even pharmaceutical companies, they help with medicines.
American's go to third world countries for operations tha's true, but sometimes they get back dead or with other deseases., the funny one is sometimes they go to third world countries for plastic surgery and when they get back, they have to be fix here.

[Frankthetank1]

The world should hope he succeeds, because when America's economy goes to the shitter, the worlds economy will follow.

[pentomato]

Right, but in standard of treatment, I'll tell you right out of the bat, socialist care is bollocks.

We have too many doctors, the state hospitals are flooded with them (hello public debt), they are careless and rude to patients, patients have to wait sometimes years, unless, of course, you have a way of getting ahead in the queue (knowing someone, who knows someone, who was flirted with by someone in a bar one night, who is the cousin of the man in charge of door-keeping someone else's neighbor's chihuahua), not to mention that the system isn't free, per se. It is cheaper, definitely not free. I got "treated" for my injured knee, and it still hurts 3 months later. I doubt they actually diagnosed the issue properly, even after 2 radiograms taken.

And the state dictates how much a doctor can make.

[devilsadvocate]

And the state dictates how much a doctor can make.

Really? Even private practice doctors? care to back that up?

[pentomato]

And the state dictates how much a doctor can make.

Really? Even private practice doctors? care to back that up?

I didn't say private practice doctors, I am talking about health insurance in countries where is run by the goverment.
In private practice I guess they can charge a million bucks an hour, that's their prerogative.

[devilsadvocate]

So what your saying is that in government run health systems doctors are paid a salary.

Except in rare circumstances I think you'll find that goes with any government employee

Unless private practice is illegal then I don't know just what your point is supposed to be.

[Barbarossa]

Well I haven't got a bad word to say about the free Health Service in the UK. They've always been there when I've needed them throughout my life, and I've never had cause for complaint.


In my opinion the press paints a bleaker picture than the real state of affairs.