I decide never to trade again~~``

[cinephilia]

Only time will tell if he is sincere or not. I try to encourage people to make good decisions and to be good community members. I don't think he will successfully trick anyone. Most of us are pretty good about reading previous posts. As far as I am concerned, the guy gets one shot to redeem himself.

I do know that mocking the guy's efforts won't help him stick to his resolve. If he stops trading and the non-traders don't give any indication that they will support his "good" decision, he will have no choice but to return to trading.

I am very much anti-trading and believe it is worthwhile to get people to stop. I have contacted a couple of very new members who did not think there was anything wrong with it because "there is a whole section devoted to trading". When they realized that many members here frown upon it, they immediately recanted.

Maybe I sound like a noob, but I try to treat people on the "internets" the same way I would IRL. I may get burned occasionally, but that happens to everyone but the harshest of cynics.

And really, I won't have to devote ANY time to "monitoring" his actions. If he goes against his pledge, SOMEONE WILL NAIL HIM ON IT!

btw, trading is not a illness.

[megabyteme]

btw, trading is not a illness.

No it isn't. Many of us believe it is a bad behavior and it weakens the BT community. We all respond to the action differently. Some people act as "watchdogs" and report to others that the member is a "trader" and, therefore, not worthy of a gift invite. Others, such as myself, tend to encourage "good" behaviors and try to sway these members towards more community oriented actions.

There are two views at play here. The first looks at the "trader" as a bad person who is not worthy of being in the community. The second looks at the actions of the member. We may not like these actions, but we can still hold out hope that the individual(s) will want to change.

I am 37 and know that I have changed a lot since I was in my teens and twenties. I don't believe I was ever a "bad" person, but I made many, many mistakes and did things that I would not even consider doing now. I try to see others as having the same potential.

Again, I want to stress that redemption is something that is earned, not given. The individual holds much of the decision power in his/her own hands. It is then up to the community to decide if that member is genuine or not.

It is not enough to simply stop doing the objectionable action. Individuals who have violated community trust typically have to atone for their wrong doings. Again, it is up to the individual to take these positive steps and then it is up to the community to judge if they are genuine.

Redemption is a great topic to study. It has been around since the New Testament (and I imagine much earlier). It is a very common theme in both modern and classic literature. It is also frequently used television, and movies. The characters portrayed are almost always central to the story because they are dynamic (learning) and not static (unchanging). Even though a character learns something from his conflicts it does not mean that he will be successful or forgiven.

[Cabalo]

If he chooses to change, he can use public trackers until some new open sign-ups come along.

Oh, cut the sh!t with this globan ban thing. Stop making childish posts like: dude, you got banned on the l33t X tracker. Now you will banned for life from the interweb from all your trackers. Like the Y tracker with 999k users gives a sh!t for that guy and what it had done.

So this 'global' ban works only on the few elite/high level trackers which you see on the WTAW thread and on those l33t wannabe ones.
Because those l33t ( and calling them l33t it's not a mocking ), so those l33t trackers are concerned about security, so a guy who trade or whatever he does which breaks their rules, it's a secury hole and it will be purged, and for the sake of security will inform their p2p friends about this.

So, these guys who promote the global ban are just kidz who wants their dream trackers, and those trackers are as high as it could be posible on the WTAW thread.

As for this guy who started this thread, it's childish what he is doing and maybe even making fun of you with this topic.
No one cares that you stoped / reloaded trading, no one but the guy who you will PM next time for an invite.

maddox's post pretty much sums up the "global" ban bullshit.

[IdolEyes787]

Again, I want to stress that redemption is something that is earned, not given. The individual holds much of the decision power in his/her own hands. It is then up to the community to decide if that member is genuine or not.

It is not enough to simply stop doing the objectionable action. Individuals who have violated community trust typically have to atone for their wrong doings. Again, it is up to the individual to take these positive steps and then it is up to the community to see if they are genuine.

Redemption is a great topic to study. It has been around ever since man started to gather in groups and form communities. It is a very common theme in both modern and classic literature. It is also frequently used television, and movies. The characters portrayed are almost always central to the story because they are dynamic (learning) and not static (unchanging). Even though a character learns something from his conflicts it does not mean that he will be successful or forgiven.

The act of redemption is not as important ( certainly in most movies and literature ) as the journey necessary to get one there.
That's why I don't think the word applies ( in a specific sense at least ) to being reinstated into trackers.

True redemption requires fundamental life altering change . It requires soul-searching and sacrifice .
It is a word of significance and to be used lightly.

Simply deciding that trading is counterproductive to one's e status and therefore stopping ( and hoping to be forgiven ) is hardly the same as ( for example) the trials faced by Andy Dufresne in The Shawshank Redemption as he struggles to reclaim his existential humanity.

[Qlix]

I won't read through the posts here, as there are too many. My reply is based on the first post and nothing else.

It's too bad you used to trade as it's a very bad thing. But at least you realized that so I'll give you credits for that. I hope more traders will follow you and quit trading. Get friends instead, then you'll automatically get invites as you become good friends with people. Get involved in forums and IRC. Be nice. Don't troll/cheat/trade. Follow the site rules. And you will get invited - without trading.

[megabyteme]

Good points, IdolEyes. I don't think that we can hope to be the catalyst for life-changing notions of purpose and self actualization. And changes that occur with members here are unlikely to even get anyone re-instated on trackers that they have broken rules on (unless one of the admins/mods is also a member and forgives them).

What we can do here is help members of this site be better members of the BT community.

If we are not here to be part of a strong community, what are we here for? I have only been here for a few months and I have all of the accounts that I am (currently) interested in. I believe that is the case for a lot of the "regulars" here. I consider myself a "regular" because I am here daily and believe that I am (on at least a minimal level) contributing.

My point in all of this is that we should not write people off permanently because they, for a period of time, made mistakes. I believe there is the possibility of redemption in most communities. If someone wants to sincerely make the effort to change (and even atone for those indiscretions) we should support those changes.

I do not believe I am using the term lightly. I am, however, extending the term to a level that is applicable to our community.

[IdolEyes787]

My point in all of this is that we should not write people off permanently because they, for a period of time, made mistakes. I believe there is the possibility of redemption in most communities. If someone wants to sincerely make the effort to change (and even atone for those indiscretions) we should support those changes.

Totally agree with that .No one is infallible and true wisdom is only gained from learning from mistakes.

Still it's not really a question of forgiveness but rather a question of trust.

[brento]

Again, I want to stress that redemption is something that is earned, not given. The individual holds much of the decision power in his/her own hands. It is then up to the community to decide if that member is genuine or not.

It is not enough to simply stop doing the objectionable action. Individuals who have violated community trust typically have to atone for their wrong doings. Again, it is up to the individual to take these positive steps and then it is up to the community to see if they are genuine.

Redemption is a great topic to study. It has been around ever since man started to gather in groups and form communities. It is a very common theme in both modern and classic literature. It is also frequently used television, and movies. The characters portrayed are almost always central to the story because they are dynamic (learning) and not static (unchanging). Even though a character learns something from his conflicts it does not mean that he will be successful or forgiven.

The act of redemption is not as important ( certainly in most movies and literature ) as the journey necessary to get one there.
That's why I don't think the word applies ( in a specific sense at least ) to being reinstated into trackers.

True redemption requires fundamental life altering change . It requires soul-searching and sacrifice .
It is a word of significance and to be used lightly.

Simply deciding that trading is counterproductive to one's e status and therefore stopping ( and hoping to be forgiven ) is hardly the same as ( for example) the trials faced by Andy Dufresne in The Shawshank Redemption as he struggles to reclaim his existential humanity.

your my hero for bringing TSR into this discussion.
That movie warms my heart <3 <3 <3

[megabyteme]

No one is infallible and true wisdom is only gained from learning from mistakes.

Still it's not really a question of forgiveness but rather a question of trust.

Trust is the outcome of seeing that individual make the changes and hopefully atone (an act, or acts, that show sincerity). As you mentioned, the journey is key here because unless we (the community) get to see the changes, we will not have any reason to believe that the person has changed.

I still believe that forgiveness plays a part because the individual has done something that ran counter to the community. They have committed a violation. Some members will forgive the act, others will not consider the possibility.

[sez]

@MBM,I think everything you said is correct and its generally what should happen,i don't see why people shouldn't be allowed a second chance,a while back i decided to steer clear of these to trade v/s not to trade debates coz they weren't helping any course and if anything they just provided an avenue for people to bash the other side.Interestingly though this other side barely contributed to these threads making them even the more pointless and basically just a monologue of sorts to increase post count and for some people to SCREAM!! out in public that they weren't traders as much as we wouldn't know what they were in private.Some were even doing it for the sake of reps on other forums(and even linked their insults in their sigs ''I anti trader,i abuse them bad on FST,click here for proof'')

As of my opinion,trading is wrong but if you ask me,i'd be more inclined to listen to the preach who tells me if you change your ways you'll have a good after life than the preach who tells me if i don't change my ways i'll fucking burn in hell for eternity.This gospel of doom just doesn't work.