Form of government

[999969999]

I have a better idea.

Why don't you elucidate further on this ^ statement, then tell us which party(s) executed that last bit.

You may finish by telling us very precisely and exactly who you should be fearing; don't be afraid to look beyond political ideology.

The topic of this thread is "forms of government". I stood up in favor of socialism due to its ability to meet the needs of the masses. You are the one who wants to look dem/rep on this one. The massively rich (which wouldn't have control in a socialist gov.) are the ones who were "too big to fail" here. Nice system.

But, I believe the majority of that 40% you claim is poor are quite simply lazy or unwilling to take the risks necessary to reap the rewards of the capitalist system. If my ancestors had played it safe and just stayed in Austria, I would probably be a poor kid in Austria right now. It was a risky but profitable adventure for them to come here from Austria.

Socialism is negative because it seeks to strip away wealth from people like me and give it to poor lazy people who should get off their asses and go to work.

Calling the bottom 40% lazy is an entirely ignorant statement. I've done the 3 jobs (70+ hours/week) thing. That doesn't solve ALL of one's problems, either...

How does one take risks when they cannot afford to eat healthy/nutritious food, don't own a home, are behind on their rent, have more debt (because of unmet basic needs) than they can pay back, etc.

I don't begrudge your luck, but your ignorance pains me. If you have nothing to invest, it won't grow.

As for the debt, one lesson my parents taught me is to do everything possible to never go into debt. Don't spend more money than you make. If it means you live really hard, then that's what you do to stay out of debt. My family has always taught me that people who owe debts will never get ahead in life. Every cent you spend in interest is lost to any possible investment purposes.

You need to look at this way, my ancestors arrived here with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They were worse off than you, and yet they managed to turn it all around. Was it a difficult life them? Of course! But they did it on their own without any help from the government.

And I have seen some extremely lazy people who are on various government handout programs. They do need to get off their asses and go to work. They are abusing the system and taking away funds which could go to the truly needy people who are physically disabled and cannot work.

[999969999]

Good point. The Native Americans had this land for a lot longer than we had it, but they did almost nothing with it. That is the problem with communism. It just doesn't work.

It worked for hundreds of years before your ancestors and people of that ilk arrived and took their lands, shot most of them and put the survivors in concentration camps reservations.

Compare their "civilization" at that time-- living in tents-- to that of the Europeans. The Europeans were lightyears ahead of them. Why? They weren't communists.

[bigboab]

It worked for hundreds of years before your ancestors and people of that ilk arrived and took their lands, shot most of them and put the survivors in concentration camps reservations.

Compare their "civilization" at that time-- living in tents-- to that of the Europeans. The Europeans were lightyears ahead of them. Why? They weren't communists.

With that kind of attitude there is no point of me carrying on this debate. I can understand now why you want your part of the country to remain fair haired, blue eyed and white.

[devilsadvocate]

So 9.

Have you gone out into the world to be a self made man or are you living off the sweat of your ancestors? Are you in the position you are in now because of your own hard work or because of the family (membership of which you had no choice in) you were born into?

One of my first encounters with you was about your parents buying you a car. Your attitude was why work to buy your own when someone will buy one for you. You called me a foolish for not letting my father buy me one when I was a young man.

Now I'm seeing you on a high perch saying that people are poor because they are lazy.

[clocker]

Man, this kind of logic is dangerous and pervasive. Much like affirmative action which seeks to punish people like me because I was born into an Austrian family (which I had no control over), you think I should be punished because I was born into a wealthy family (also which I had no control over). But the latter is a result of a lot of hard work by my ancestors.
You should be neither punished nor rewarded.
You should be judged on the basis of your abilities and progress, your ancestors triumphs being irrelevant.

To date, I'd say you've risen to the level of "Parasite", not bad, considering.

"Just remember that the native Americans were community living peoples. That is communism to you."

Good point. The Native Americans had this land for a lot longer than we had it, but they did almost nothing with it. That is the problem with communism. It just doesn't work.
.

Well, they managed to live on the land sustainably for quite a while.
Indians did not build WalMarts and poison the air with hydrocarbons.
They managed not to turn the midwest into the Dust Bowl.

Stupid communists.

[megabyteme]

To date, I'd say you've risen to the level of "Parasite", not bad, considering.

[clocker]

I dispute the validity of your claim that anyone (including socialist countries) has a higher standard of living than the United States. I've been on vacations with my family to various European countries and while they are nice to visit, I am always glad to be back in the United States after the vacation is over.

You dispute this claim based on a few vacations you took?
By almost any metric you choose the US trails other developed countries...health, quality of life, education...you pick it, we lose.
We do seem to be the most obese, so there's that.
USA, Fuck Yeah!

[j2k4]

I dispute the validity of your claim that anyone (including socialist countries) has a higher standard of living than the United States. I've been on vacations with my family to various European countries and while they are nice to visit, I am always glad to be back in the United States after the vacation is over.

You dispute this claim based on a few vacations you took?
By almost any metric you choose the US trails other developed countries...health, quality of life, education...you pick it, we lose.
We do seem to be the most obese, so there's that.
USA, Fuck Yeah!

And you backstop your own views with U.N studies.

This would be the same U.N. whose Human Rights Council (you know -China, Cuba, Libya and Saudi Arabia?) is about to hear testimony from dis-status-fied Americans about how horrible things are here?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/11...ights-council/

How much American blood, sweat or money do you figure we'd have to give away to move up on your favored U.N. rankings?

You play the sheep to the U.N.'s beneficent 'shepherd'.

[999969999]

Parasite?!?

More like worker bee.

My official job description, for tax purposes, in my family's business is "Purchasing and Logistics Management"

I'll admit I don't work as hard as some people, but I do work.

[999969999]

I dispute the validity of your claim that anyone (including socialist countries) has a higher standard of living than the United States. I've been on vacations with my family to various European countries and while they are nice to visit, I am always glad to be back in the United States after the vacation is over.

You dispute this claim based on a few vacations you took?
By almost any metric you choose the US trails other developed countries...health, quality of life, education...you pick it, we lose.
We do seem to be the most obese, so there's that.
USA, Fuck Yeah!

Hey, at least I've actually been over there and have seen what their standard of living is like compared to ours, and there is no comparison. I just thought we had crowds at stores and restaurants, and traffic congestion before the first time I went on a trip to Europe while I was still in high school. Little shitty apartments all cramped up together, narrow streets, and the vast majority of the people over there were forced to use public transportation which sucks compared to having your own car and actually being able to drive it without having to deal with traffic nightmares. I've been on 5 trips over there so far, and none of them made me even the least bit interested in moving over there. The only one I found even remotely interesting for future trips was Finland.

And I'm not just comparing the crowds and traffic to Eagar, but also to places like Phoenix, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle. As bad as they are in terms of traffic, they still don't even come close to European countries. I am always glad to get back home. It makes me appreciate what I have over here.

And if you dislike the U.S. so much, you need to keep in mind that we won't keep you here against your will. You are free to leave at any time.