You lost it here mate, you could well have said this the other way round too ...Originally posted by kAb@28 December 2003 - 15:43
I hate to pick on one group, but it is the islamic extremists that are the problem. Possibly even Islam itself.
I hate to pick on one group, but it is the jewish extremists that are the problem. Possibly even judaism itself.
Perhaps you should just have said "Extremists".
US is to be blamed for Israel situation. they are blind towards Israel. Everyone knows why. Again Israelis and Palestines have grown so much hatred that its now impossible for them to stay in peace anymore. UN should divide the place into two independent country. But again Israel wont let it happen with the help of US. Israel is the only weak point for USA.
TO kAb:: you want a normal war in middle east? how is that possible when US is directly helping Israel???? If there was a war in Middle east Israel exterminate Palestines in a day.
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Colonel
couldnt have said it better myself. kAD, everytime i turn on the news, i hear about islamic this and muslim that, mostly bad things. did you ever realize most of the media in the western world are pro-israeli? ever seen CNN and how biased they are? every year, billions of dollars are given to israel from the U.S. government, thats like their (Israels) economy right there, the U.S. how would you feel if people came over to your country, destroyed your homes, started killing your families and calling it a casualty of war? what war? this would have never have happened if america and britain didnt create Israel after WW2. all of this could have been avoidedOriginally posted by aizlumzan@28 December 2003 - 03:26
US is to be blamed for Israel situation. they are blind towards Israel. Everyone knows why. Again Israelis and Palestines have grown so much hatred that its now impossible for them to stay in peace anymore. UN should divide the place into two independent country. But again Israel wont let it happen with the help of US. Israel is the only weak point for USA.
TO kAb:: you want a normal war in middle east? how is that possible when US is directly helping Israel???? If there was a war in Middle east Israel exterminate Palestines in a day.. jews have been persecuted all their lives from ancient egypt to ww2, now it looks like its the muslims turn to take on that role, how disgraceful. youd expect that Israel would try and prevent something like this, but then again, its Israel we're talking about. i think that its time the U.N. steps in, divides up Israel fairly (yes, including Jerusalem), and stops all this violence and madness. and NO, for the last time, Im not an anti-semitic, for gods sake, everytime i tell people the facts about Israel and Jews, they call me a nazi, an anti-semitic, and things like that. people can be so ignorant, why? the media, like i said, its pro-israeli and shows everyone (or tries to anyways) what they want to show.
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The fighting was going on well before Israel actually existed, and post second world war the jews made up roughly about 1/2 the population of Palestine, but they were generally much poorer than the Arab 1/2, it was clearly a situation that wasn't going to get better. The creation of israel was on the cards since 1897, before Britain had a mandate in Palestine, and technically i don't think Britain or America ever actually created Israel, though Britain and the UN did try.this would have never have happened if america and britain didnt create Israel after WW2.
The persecution of jews during the Second World War made the creation of Israel almost inevitable and whoever did it, I don't think it was ever going to be a stable situation.
Yeah thats very clever of you guy's, you kinda remind me of a certain person during the 40's "The only reason life is so bad is because of the Jews", Blaming the whole Of Muslims and Jews is just plane idiocy, it has nothing to do with either faiths or the followers just rather those within the faiths who profit more from war and use faith to persue there own agenda's. The "extremists" on both sides are the ones to blame, not the faith and not the normal followers who wish to carry on with there lives. Get rid of Arafat and Sharon and put people in who are willing to talk it over rather then throw explosives at each other and before you say anything, arafat is as much a Muslim as I am, so out goes the "Oh Islam is to blame" story.
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The problem is, the Israelis are organized, and don't believe killing themselves will get anything done.
These muslims, who think killing themselves is OK, are a real problem. The israelis aren't stupid enough to strap bombs to themselves and run towards citizens. They are just OVER-defending themselves.
But they aren't extremists.
They certainly are doing a good job of exterminating each other, Merry ChristmasOriginally posted by RAM%ROD@27 December 2003 - 00:32
It will go on until all the Muslims and Jews are exterminated.
From my position I do not see my Palestinian brothers are doing anything stupid, I just see people going above and beyond the call of duty, willing to sacrifice them selves for there people. It is the leaders who are the ones doing it all wrong on both sides, the military on Israel have to follow orders its as simple as that, disobey an order you will be looking at the death penalty (worst case scenario), so when an order comes from the top rankers who are all extreme right wing "Jews" to go in and buldoze the hell out of houses, they do it. The same goes for the Palestinians, for lack of any military establishment they join the closest thing and follow there orders, they get ordered to bomb this place and that, they follow it.Originally posted by kAb@28 December 2003 - 20:30
The problem is, the Israelis are organized, and don't believe killing themselves will get anything done.
These muslims, who think killing themselves is OK, are a real problem. The israelis aren't stupid enough to strap bombs to themselves and run towards citizens. They are just OVER-defending themselves.
But they aren't extremists.
Both sides are doing wrong and both sides are doing acts which are stupid but the wrong and stupidity lies in the hands of the leaders. and finally, is there really any such thing as over defending your self when your land is at risk?
From my views, as long as we keep hitting civilians and destroying civilian homes, they have the right to hit back, sharon is just a hypocrite.
Well put.Originally posted by noname12@29 December 2003 - 14:58
My comment about extremists was also aimed at the top. The Israeli government is held to ransom by extreme jewish groups who still have a greater Israel, and the expulsion of all muslims from "their" land as their goal. If the people of Israel really want peace, they need a strong Labor government.
As for the Palestinians; I've lived among muslims, in scarier places than Palestine, some of them are very extreme. A lot of their views are very black and white, you cross me, I kill you. You will never stop individuals carrying out acts of terror, ever! Organised terror can be stamped out tho, mostly at least. This needs a government willing to do it. But governments need to roughly follow the desires of the people, or they get kicked out. What the Palestinians need is some good news, and only Israel can provide it.
Colonel
Originally posted by noname12@28 December 2003 - 10:19
Yeah thats very clever of you guy's, you kinda remind me of a certain person during the 40's "The only reason life is so bad is because of the Jews", Blaming the whole Of Muslims and Jews is just plane idiocy, it has nothing to do with either faiths or the followers just rather those within the faiths who profit more from war and use faith to persue there own agenda's. The "extremists" on both sides are the ones to blame, not the faith and not the normal followers who wish to carry on with there lives. Get rid of Arafat and Sharon and put people in who are willing to talk it over rather then throw explosives at each other and before you say anything, arafat is as much a Muslim as I am, so out goes the "Oh Islam is to blame" story.From my position I do not see my Palestinian brothers are doing anything stupid, I just see people going above and beyond the call of duty, willing to sacrifice them selves for there people. It is the leaders who are the ones doing it all wrong on both sides, the military on Israel have to follow orders its as simple as that, disobey an order you will be looking at the death penalty (worst case scenario), so when an order comes from the top rankers who are all extreme right wing "Jews" to go in and buldoze the hell out of houses, they do it. The same goes for the Palestinians, for lack of any military establishment they join the closest thing and follow there orders, they get ordered to bomb this place and that, they follow it.
Both sides are doing wrong and both sides are doing acts which are stupid but the wrong and stupidity lies in the hands of the leaders. and finally, is there really any such thing as over defending your self when your land is at risk?
From my views, as long as we keep hitting civilians and destroying civilian homes, they have the right to hit back, sharon is just a hypocrite.! i honestly couldn't have worded better myself. kAD, you think that all muslims are extremists? tell me something, can i buy pot from you? seriously though, both sides have extremists. if all muslims are extremists, then truly their wouldn't be a majority of muslims in this world, now would there? sharon and arafat are like twin brothers, just caught on opposite sides. so kAD, let me come over to your house with a bulldozer, and being the good "palestinian" you are, defend yourself. now let's modify the situation, i just destroyed your house told you to go live somewhere else, and then what would do? go to the police? in this case the police, it would most likely have to be the U.N. but of course, they're not gonna help, they'll try, but won't be able to. so now what? strap yourself to a bomb and go kill the "infidel" (in which case, yes, the israeli, the one who destroyed your house and booted you, should have every right to defend him/herself). i am not sterotyping here. back to my point, if all muslims are extremists, wait, if all palestinians are extremists, then why do palestinians exist right now? shouldn't they all be dead, or better yet, if they were that bad, they would destroyed the opposition by now. please think b4 u type. and yes, there are many extremists-muslims that use religion as a front. study islam a little, it does not certainly teach terrorism and killing, hell, the law codes and stuff they show on tv about how ppl in iran or watever get their hands chopped off for stealing, that's all bs. they DO NOT teach that kind of stuff in ISLAM, that's just something from IRANIAN culture, and AFGHANISTANI CULTURE. frankly, people who use religion for murder should be murdered themselves for disgracing a faith. i realize that their are many muslim terrorists and extremists, but lets c, a billion muslims, and out of that how many extremists? now take christanity, 3 billion (i think), out of that how many are extremists? KKK anyone? or how about that extremist christain militia that slaughtered those palestinians in those camps, whats the name... i forgot, but will edit this when i remember, it was in 1979 i think. you don't have to take my word for it, read up and study b4 u post bs.
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. jews have been persecuted all their lives from ancient egypt to ww2, now it looks like its the muslims turn to take on that role, how disgraceful. youd expect that Israel would try and prevent something like this, but then again, its Israel we're talking about. i think that its time the U.N. steps in, divides up Israel fairly (yes, including Jerusalem), and stops all this violence and madness. and NO, for the last time, Im not an anti-semitic, for gods sake, everytime i tell people the facts about Israel and Jews, they call me a nazi, an anti-semitic, and things like that. people can be so ignorant, why? the media, like i said, its pro-israeli and shows everyone (or tries to anyways) what they want to show.
! i honestly couldn't have worded better myself. kAD, you think that all muslims are extremists? tell me something, can i buy pot from you? seriously though, both sides have extremists. if all muslims are extremists, then truly their wouldn't be a majority of muslims in this world, now would there? sharon and arafat are like twin brothers, just caught on opposite sides. so kAD, let me come over to your house with a bulldozer, and being the good "palestinian" you are, defend yourself. now let's modify the situation, i just destroyed your house told you to go live somewhere else, and then what would do? go to the police? in this case the police, it would most likely have to be the U.N. but of course, they're not gonna help, they'll try, but won't be able to. so now what? strap yourself to a bomb and go kill the "infidel" (in which case, yes, the israeli, the one who destroyed your house and booted you, should have every right to defend him/herself). i am not sterotyping here. back to my point, if all muslims are extremists, wait, if all palestinians are extremists, then why do palestinians exist right now? shouldn't they all be dead, or better yet, if they were that bad, they would destroyed the opposition by now. please think b4 u type. and yes, there are many extremists-muslims that use religion as a front. study islam a little, it does not certainly teach terrorism and killing, hell, the law codes and stuff they show on tv about how ppl in iran or watever get their hands chopped off for stealing, that's all bs. they DO NOT teach that kind of stuff in ISLAM, that's just something from IRANIAN culture, and AFGHANISTANI CULTURE. frankly, people who use religion for murder should be murdered themselves for disgracing a faith. i realize that their are many muslim terrorists and extremists, but lets c, a billion muslims, and out of that how many extremists? now take christanity, 3 billion (i think), out of that how many are extremists? KKK anyone? or how about that extremist christain militia that slaughtered those palestinians in those camps, whats the name... i forgot, but will edit this when i remember, it was in 1979 i think. you don't have to take my word for it, read up and study b4 u post bs.
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