Microsoft Faces $618m Fine In Eu Case

[Illuminati]

Originally posted by shn+25 March 2004 - 01:01--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shn &#064; 25 March 2004 - 01:01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Illuminati@24 March 2004 - 17:34
Fact is the fine doesn&#39;t mean much to Microsoft - It might be a lot to the EU and hopefully will go towards a few more projects on developing the Union (UK included I hope), but a company who&#39;s founding businessman is reputed to have enough wealth to buy a country is unlikely to be affected by an amount that big.&nbsp;

What will hurt Microsoft is the other actions - MS may (depends on the appeal) may to share parts of the code with competitors, MS may have to ship (at least in Europe) a version of Windows without any integrated media players, MS has offered the EU a compromise on where it will allow the feature for three selected media players to be shipped in Windows globally (i.e. not just in Europe)...the list goes on, but none of it is finalised until the EU gives the final action.&nbsp; However, one thing can be said - the EU&#39;s case against Microsoft affects Windows across the world, not just in Europe.&nbsp;

And some people say the Europeans don&#39;t do anything right

As for what might happen to small businesses if MS withdraws from Europe - There&#39;s very few other OSs that businesses might consider if you think about it.&nbsp; Apple Macs may be an option but the large costs in buying the hardware and the software will mean it&#39;d only really be for the professional/yuppie businesses.&nbsp; OS/2 might be an alternative but chances are that the businesses may go for a distro of Linux due to the popularity & support for it recently.

Why don&#39;t you change that Red Hat Fedora link in your sig to Lindows

Fedora is not a replacement for Windows, then again neither is Lindows. [/b][/quote]
Why don&#39;t I change it to Mandrake? or SuSE? or Debian, Xandros or Slackware?

All are distros are Linux. However, Red Hat is seen by a few as the popular distro closest resembling to Windows - Slangingly known as the Windows Junkie&#39;s/Linux Novice&#39;s My First Linux.

When I wrote the sig you see, I didn&#39;t write it to show off what open-source programs are Ub8r-gr8 (if you get my drift ). I wrote it to show readers how open-source programs can be bloody good alternatives to MS Software.

The techies can get into open-source with both hands but many casual users still need to try things out a step at a time

[shn]

Originally posted by Illuminati+24 March 2004 - 18:18--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Illuminati &#064; 24 March 2004 - 18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by shn@25 March 2004 - 01:01
<!--QuoteBegin-Illuminati

@24 March 2004 - 17:34
Fact is the fine doesn&#39;t mean much to Microsoft - It might be a lot to the EU and hopefully will go towards a few more projects on developing the Union (UK included I hope), but a company who&#39;s founding businessman is reputed to have enough wealth to buy a country is unlikely to be affected by an amount that big.

What will hurt Microsoft is the other actions - MS may (depends on the appeal) may to share parts of the code with competitors, MS may have to ship (at least in Europe) a version of Windows without any integrated media players, MS has offered the EU a compromise on where it will allow the feature for three selected media players to be shipped in Windows globally (i.e. not just in Europe)...the list goes on, but none of it is finalised until the EU gives the final action. However, one thing can be said - the EU&#39;s case against Microsoft affects Windows across the world, not just in Europe.

And some people say the Europeans don&#39;t do anything right

As for what might happen to small businesses if MS withdraws from Europe - There&#39;s very few other OSs that businesses might consider if you think about it. Apple Macs may be an option but the large costs in buying the hardware and the software will mean it&#39;d only really be for the professional/yuppie businesses. OS/2 might be an alternative but chances are that the businesses may go for a distro of Linux due to the popularity & support for it recently.

Why don&#39;t you change that Red Hat Fedora link in your sig to Lindows

Fedora is not a replacement for Windows, then again neither is Lindows.

Why don&#39;t I change it to Mandrake? or SuSE? or Debian, Xandros or Slackware?

All are distros are Linux. However, Red Hat is seen by a few as the popular distro closest resembling to Windows - Slangingly known as the Windows Junkie&#39;s/Linux Novice&#39;s My First Linux.

When I wrote the sig you see, I didn&#39;t write it to show off what open-source programs are Ub8r-gr8 (if you get my drift ). I wrote it to show readers how open-source programs can be bloody good alternatives to MS Software.

The techies can get into open-source with both hands but many casual users still need to try things out a step at a time [/b][/quote]
RedHat dude&#33; Get it right&#33;

Not Fedora. It&#39;s basically for developers and it will crash and you will have to fix it..................so can you fix it? :-"


Btw, you forgot Gentoo...............and about a thousand other distros.

[jobauer]

Originally posted by <TROUBLE^MAKER>@25 March 2004 - 00:11

http://www.digital-law-online.com/misc/ogilvie.htm

http://stlr.stanford.edu/STLR/Articl..._4/article.htm

What&#39;s your point ? This thread is not about software copyrights from a philosophical, theoretical, technical or legal point of view...

we are -were- talking about the EU decision and its consequences for Microsoft.

I guess you deserve your name, huh

Anyway, I&#39;m outta here. So long

[Illuminati]

Originally posted by shn+25 March 2004 - 01:25--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shn &#064; 25 March 2004 - 01:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by Illuminati+24 March 2004 - 18:18--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Illuminati &#064; 24 March 2004 - 18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by shn@25 March 2004 - 01:01

Originally posted by Illuminati@24 March 2004 - 17:34
Fact is the fine doesn&#39;t mean much to Microsoft - It might be a lot to the EU and hopefully will go towards a few more projects on developing the Union (UK included I hope), but a company who&#39;s founding businessman is reputed to have enough wealth to buy a country is unlikely to be affected by an amount that big.&nbsp;

What will hurt Microsoft is the other actions - MS may (depends on the appeal) may to share parts of the code with competitors, MS may have to ship (at least in Europe) a version of Windows without any integrated media players, MS has offered the EU a compromise on where it will allow the feature for three selected media players to be shipped in Windows globally (i.e. not just in Europe)...the list goes on, but none of it is finalised until the EU gives the final action.&nbsp; However, one thing can be said - the EU&#39;s case against Microsoft affects Windows across the world, not just in Europe.&nbsp;

And some people say the Europeans don&#39;t do anything right

As for what might happen to small businesses if MS withdraws from Europe - There&#39;s very few other OSs that businesses might consider if you think about it.&nbsp; Apple Macs may be an option but the large costs in buying the hardware and the software will mean it&#39;d only really be for the professional/yuppie businesses.&nbsp; OS/2 might be an alternative but chances are that the businesses may go for a distro of Linux due to the popularity & support for it recently.

Why don&#39;t you change that Red Hat Fedora link in your sig to Lindows

Fedora is not a replacement for Windows, then again neither is Lindows.

Why don&#39;t I change it to Mandrake? or SuSE? or Debian, Xandros or Slackware?

All are distros are Linux. However, Red Hat is seen by a few as the popular distro closest resembling to Windows - Slangingly known as the Windows Junkie&#39;s/Linux Novice&#39;s My First Linux.

When I wrote the sig you see, I didn&#39;t write it to show off what open-source programs are Ub8r-gr8 (if you get my drift ). I wrote it to show readers how open-source programs can be bloody good alternatives to MS Software.

The techies can get into open-source with both hands but many casual users still need to try things out a step at a time [/b]

RedHat dude&#33; Get it right&#33;

Not Fedora. It&#39;s basically for developers and it will crash and you will have to fix it..................so can you fix it? :-"


Btw, you forgot Gentoo...............and about a thousand other distros. [/b]

Without trying to career too far off-topic...

Originally posted by shn
RedHat dude&#33;&nbsp; Get it right&#33;

Copyright © 2004 Red Hat, Inc. All rights reserved.

The Red Hat Magazine for Open Source Professionals and Advocates.

All taken from Red Hat&#39;s home page - Even the page&#39;s title...

Red Hat -- Linux, Embedded Linux and Open Source Solutions

I could probably go with a but it&#39;s in reality a case of "you say tomato, I say tomato".

<!--QuoteBegin-shn@
Not Fedora.&nbsp; It&#39;s basically for developers and it will crash and you will have to fix it..................so can you fix it?&nbsp; :-" [/quote]

True - Fedora is about as stable as a car with only one wheel (no scouse jokes please people... :-"). However, it looks like Red Hat Inc could be heading towards the Fedora version, abeit chances are it&#39;ll be under another name at the time. Which is why I put it in (future-proofing ), though I might be wrong I&#39;ll have a look at Fedora and see whether it should be replaced with the old stable Red Hat

I&#39;m not changing the Linux Distro link beyond that though if that&#39;s what you&#39;re looking for The distro selected can be argued constantly but like the choice of Windows vs Linux it&#39;s personal choice of the user in the end.

I agree myself that for experienced users there&#39;s a lot of distros better than Red Hat, but for the starter/casual users something that at least feels similar to Windows is something that may be easier to learn the basics of Linux about.

<!--QuoteBegin-shn
Btw, you forgot Gentoo...............and about a thousand other distros.&nbsp; [/quote]

Oh b***dy hell - You want me to take an eternity to type all of them in?

[shn]

Originally posted by Illuminati+24 March 2004 - 18:43--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Illuminati &#064; 24 March 2004 - 18:43)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by shn+25 March 2004 - 01:25--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shn &#064; 25 March 2004 - 01:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by Illuminati@24 March 2004 - 18:18

Originally posted by shn@25 March 2004 - 01:01

Originally posted by Illuminati@24 March 2004 - 17:34
Fact is the fine doesn&#39;t mean much to Microsoft - It might be a lot to the EU and hopefully will go towards a few more projects on developing the Union (UK included I hope), but a company who&#39;s founding businessman is reputed to have enough wealth to buy a country is unlikely to be affected by an amount that big.

What will hurt Microsoft is the other actions - MS may (depends on the appeal) may to share parts of the code with competitors, MS may have to ship (at least in Europe) a version of Windows without any integrated media players, MS has offered the EU a compromise on where it will allow the feature for three selected media players to be shipped in Windows globally (i.e. not just in Europe)...the list goes on, but none of it is finalised until the EU gives the final action. However, one thing can be said - the EU&#39;s case against Microsoft affects Windows across the world, not just in Europe.

And some people say the Europeans don&#39;t do anything right

As for what might happen to small businesses if MS withdraws from Europe - There&#39;s very few other OSs that businesses might consider if you think about it. Apple Macs may be an option but the large costs in buying the hardware and the software will mean it&#39;d only really be for the professional/yuppie businesses. OS/2 might be an alternative but chances are that the businesses may go for a distro of Linux due to the popularity & support for it recently.

Why don&#39;t you change that Red Hat Fedora link in your sig to Lindows

Fedora is not a replacement for Windows, then again neither is Lindows.

Why don&#39;t I change it to Mandrake? or SuSE? or Debian, Xandros or Slackware?

All are distros are Linux. However, Red Hat is seen by a few as the popular distro closest resembling to Windows - Slangingly known as the Windows Junkie&#39;s/Linux Novice&#39;s My First Linux.

When I wrote the sig you see, I didn&#39;t write it to show off what open-source programs are Ub8r-gr8 (if you get my drift ). I wrote it to show readers how open-source programs can be bloody good alternatives to MS Software.

The techies can get into open-source with both hands but many casual users still need to try things out a step at a time

RedHat dude&#33; Get it right&#33;

Not Fedora. It&#39;s basically for developers and it will crash and you will have to fix it..................so can you fix it? :-"


Btw, you forgot Gentoo...............and about a thousand other distros. [/b]

Without trying to career too far off-topic...

Originally posted by shn
RedHat dude&#33; Get it right&#33;

Copyright © 2004 Red Hat, Inc. All rights reserved.

The Red Hat Magazine for Open Source Professionals and Advocates.

All taken from Red Hat&#39;s home page - Even the page&#39;s title...

Red Hat -- Linux, Embedded Linux and Open Source Solutions

I could probably go with a but it&#39;s in reality a case of "you say tomato, I say tomato".

<!--QuoteBegin-shn@
Not Fedora. It&#39;s basically for developers and it will crash and you will have to fix it..................so can you fix it? :-"

True - Fedora is about as stable as a car with only one wheel (no scouse jokes please people... :-"). However, it looks like Red Hat Inc could be heading towards the Fedora version, abeit chances are it&#39;ll be under another name at the time. Which is why I put it in (future-proofing ), though I might be wrong I&#39;ll have a look at Fedora and see whether it should be replaced with Red Hat Enterprise

I&#39;m not changing the Linux Distro link beyond that though if that&#39;s what you&#39;re looking for The distro selected can be argued constantly but like the choice of Windows vs Linux it&#39;s personal choice of the user in the end.

I agree myself that for experienced users there&#39;s a lot of distros better than Red Hat, but for the starter/casual users something that at least feels similar to Windows is something that may be easier to learn the basics of Linux about.

<!--QuoteBegin-shn
Btw, you forgot Gentoo...............and about a thousand other distros. [/quote]

Oh b***dy hell - You want me to take an eternity to type all of them in? [/b][/quote]
Funny.

I did&#39;nt even read your post dude. I only saw the RedHat Enterprise pic.

*sighs*

Take in mind your trying to get a frivilous point across to someone that not only ran RedHat Enterprise server 2.1 for 4 years flat (since I was a wee tweet), but RedHat Enterprise Worksation 2.1 as well.

I won&#39;t waste my time with someone that can&#39;t even tell me the difference between the two.

Client ------------&#62; Server....................... Get it?

Your claims have no merit&#33;

Linux is a ladder, with each distro you move up that ladder................like I said, you left out Gentoo.

End

[Illuminati]

Maybe if you read the whole post through, you&#39;d know why I posted the pic of Red Hat Enterprise Linux - I couldn&#39;t have posted the reason why I did any clearer Then again, usually once a name argument is solved everything else goes to hell

Now - Let&#39;s go back to the original subject of the post instead of talking about my signature. If anyone wants to argue about it, they can PM me in private

Anyone else got any thoughts on the Microsoft issue

[<TROUBLE^MAKER>]

Originally posted by jobauer+24 March 2004 - 19:41--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jobauer &#064; 24 March 2004 - 19:41)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-<TROUBLE^MAKER>@25 March 2004 - 00:11

http://www.digital-law-online.com/misc/ogilvie.htm

http://stlr.stanford.edu/STLR/Articl..._4/article.htm

What&#39;s your point ? This thread is not about software copyrights from a philosophical, theoretical, technical or legal point of view...

we are -were- talking about the EU decision and its consequences for Microsoft.

I guess you deserve your name, huh

Anyway, I&#39;m outta here. So long[/b][/quote]
That&#39;s the reason why the USA will tell the EU to eat a sh&#33;t sandwich and shut the Fuk up.

[ilw]

Originally posted by <TROUBLE^MAKER>+25 March 2004 - 04:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (<TROUBLE^MAKER> @ 25 March 2004 - 04:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by jobauer@24 March 2004 - 19:41
<!--QuoteBegin-<TROUBLE^MAKER>

@25 March 2004 - 00:11

http://www.digital-law-online.com/misc/ogilvie.htm

http://stlr.stanford.edu/STLR/Articl..._4/article.htm

What&#39;s your point ? This thread is not about software copyrights from a philosophical, theoretical, technical or legal point of view...

we are -were- talking about the EU decision and its consequences for Microsoft.

I guess you deserve your name, huh

Anyway, I&#39;m outta here. So long

That&#39;s the reason why the USA will tell the EU to eat a sh&#33;t sandwich and shut the Fuk up. [/b][/quote]
I still don&#39;t really get it either, those links don&#39;t seem helpful in explaining anything to do with this topic.
Imo there is absolutely no way that microsoft would pull completely out of Europe over this (leaving it for linux and apple?). Its not like they even have to act straight away, it said on the news yesterday that they have 7 years to make their appeals and comply with the ruling.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by <TROUBLE^MAKER>+25 March 2004 - 05:58--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (<TROUBLE^MAKER> &#064; 25 March 2004 - 05:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by jobauer@24 March 2004 - 19:41
<!--QuoteBegin-<TROUBLE^MAKER>

@25 March 2004 - 00:11

http://www.digital-law-online.com/misc/ogilvie.htm

http://stlr.stanford.edu/STLR/Articl..._4/article.htm

What&#39;s your point ? This thread is not about software copyrights from a philosophical, theoretical, technical or legal point of view...

we are -were- talking about the EU decision and its consequences for Microsoft.

I guess you deserve your name, huh

Anyway, I&#39;m outta here. So long

That&#39;s the reason why the USA will tell the EU to eat a sh&#33;t sandwich and shut the Fuk up. [/b][/quote]
The EU is a bigger market than the USA (both in terms of potential sales (numbers) and profit per individual sale).....there is no way M&#036; will leave Europe to its competitors.

That being the case, there is really no need to try and extradite anyone...

they dont pay the fine, they stop trading here, the shareholders lynch the directors for the plummit in M&#036; stock price, justice is done.

they pay the fine, appeal..if they win they win, if they lose they lose...its no big deal.


The "Big Issue" is the bundling of Media players and the opening of source code to competitors... I think this is what Trouble^Maker is trying to say....hence the links.

[100%]

If they sue microsoft for monopolising .wmv -wmp9

should

they then not sue Apple for monopolising .mov thru Quicktime

would the EU have sue apple had they installed Macs?

(theres probably tons of other progies which have their own monopolised .extension and application)

??