Us Vetoes Condemnation Of Israel

[mrcall1969]

Originally posted by chalice+27 March 2004 - 03:30--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chalice &#064; 27 March 2004 - 03:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-vidcc@27 March 2004 - 02:12
Much as i agree history can throw up instance from all nations past terrors i do feel that it doesn&#39;t really append to the people that live in those nations TODAY.
We wouldn&#39;t execute someone because their father comitted a murder so why blame current decendents for the acts of their forefathers?.
there is plenty of current violations going on to talk about.

Should we then forget about unresolved atrocities?

There is plenty of room for being agrieved over injustice. The matter of Bloody Sunday is as relevant (to it&#39;s victims and survivors, at least) today as it ever was.

One injustice doesn&#39;t bump another one out. [/b][/quote]
Indeed, even the first one.

Maybe in 100 years from now, when the Iraqs of this world might be superpowers, the people will be having the same debate.

[vidcc]

chalice at no point did i say we should forget, but people are dragging up things from history that weren&#39;t comitted by todays population so they are not really a basis of guilt, which is why i said we wouldn&#39;t execute someone because their father comitted a murder...if you read it also says THERE IS PLENTY OF CURRENT VIOLATIONS GOING ON. so bloody sunday WOULD be an acceptable choice as the people involved are still around even though the government of today had little to do with what went on back in the 70s.
i have never pretended that any nation is without sin (even todays people) but to use something that happened in the 19th century is totally irrelivent.
I agree that one injustice doesn&#39;t bump another out but where would you draw the line as to accountablility?....should the Italians appologise for the Roman empire? What about the Vikins rapeing and pilliging? should the present spanish be held accountable for the inquisition?
Society changes with time.............

[chalice]

Originally posted by vidcc@27 March 2004 - 02:48
chalice at no point did i say we should forget, but people are dragging up things from history that weren&#39;t comitted by todays population so they are not really a basis of guilt, which is why i said we wouldn&#39;t execute someone because their father comitted a murder...if you read it also says THERE IS PLENTY OF CURRENT VIOLATIONS GOING ON. so bloody sunday WOULD be an acceptable choice as the people involved are still around even though the government of today had little to do with what went on back in the 70s.
i have never pretended that any nation is without sin (even todays people) but to use something that happened in the 19th century is totally irrelivent.
I agree that one injustice doesn&#39;t bump another out but where would you draw the line as to accountablility?....should the Italians appologise for the Roman empire? What about the Vikins rapeing and pilliging? should the present spanish be held accountable for the inquisition?
Society changes with time.............

Vidcc,

Society changes with time indeed. Or rather, society changes with having an aggressive ethic inflicted upon it.

I acccept totally the irrelevance of Cromwell and even 1916 but N Ireland is an unresolved conflict, by anyone&#39;s standards. And one which reflects the political struggles in the Middle East. This country&#39;s so screwed, we even take sides in the Isreal/Palistine furore.

[mrcall1969]

Originally posted by chalice+27 March 2004 - 03:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chalice @ 27 March 2004 - 03:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-vidcc@27 March 2004 - 02:48
chalice at no point did i say we should forget,&nbsp; but people are dragging up things from history that weren&#39;t comitted by todays population so they are not really a basis of guilt, which is why i said we wouldn&#39;t execute someone because their father comitted a murder...if you read it also says THERE IS PLENTY OF CURRENT VIOLATIONS GOING ON. so bloody sunday WOULD be an acceptable choice as the people involved are still around even though the government of today had little to do with what went on back in the 70s.
i have never pretended that any nation is without sin (even todays people) but to use something that happened in the 19th century is totally irrelivent.
I agree that one injustice doesn&#39;t bump another out but where would you draw the line as to accountablility?....should the Italians appologise for the Roman empire? What about the Vikins rapeing and pilliging? should the present spanish be held accountable for the inquisition?
Society changes with time.............

Vidcc,

Society changes with time indeed. Or rather, society changes with having an aggressive ethic inflicted upon it.

I acccept totally the irrelevance of Cromwell and even 1916 but N Ireland is an unresolved conflict, by anyone&#39;s standards. And one which reflects the political struggles in the Middle East. This country&#39;s so screwed, we even take sides in the Isreal/Palistine furore. [/b][/quote]
That is the point, I&#39;d rather sort out the problems in my own house before meddling in distant neighbours problems.

[Rat Faced]

However we mustnt forget:

Ancient Bush family proverb; Give a man a fish and he eats for a day... drown him in the lake and he&#39;ll never be hungry again.

[mrcall1969]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@27 March 2004 - 21:40
However we mustnt forget:

Ancient Bush family proverb; Give a man a fish and he eats for a day... drown him in the lake and he&#39;ll never be hungry again.

True, but how does that translate into German again??

[cpt_azad]

Originally posted by Chewie UK@26 March 2004 - 16:39
I&#39;m afraid both the US and UK representatives reactions were to be expected; it doesn&#39;t matter what atrocities Israel commits - and there&#39;s been plenty, thank you very much - it&#39;s always seen as OK by power inside the US & UK.
Tit-for-tat attacks get you nowhere fast except war/terrorism; one begats the other.

I think both UK and US governments are acutely aware of atrocities in their own respective pasts.

agreed. let&#39;s see here, how many billions of dollars does the U.S. give Israel annually? (no seriously, how much, i don&#39;t know the exact figure, last i heard it was aroun 20). their (israeli) military, and in some cases, economy, heavily relies on the U.S. (not americans damit, the gov&#39;t, i&#39;m sick and tired of ppl flaming me when i post something about the U.S. when i infact refer to the gov&#39;t, the ppl/citizens of america i&#39;m fine with, hell i have dual citizenship ).

[Rat Faced]

We all know that the Republicans rely on voter apathy, as they only make up 30% or so of the electorate.

However, as long as Americans do not use their vote, then they will be labelled the way the Neo-Conservatives portray them.


It takes a village, to elect a village idiot....

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@28 March 2004 - 07:36
We all know that the Republicans rely on voter apathy, as they only make up 30% or so of the electorate.

However, as long as Americans do not use their vote, then they will be labelled the way the Neo-Conservatives portray them.


It takes a village, to elect a village idiot....

Rat-

I really hate to ask, but could you back this "30%" figure up?

Ever heard of the Silent Majority?

Also:

Be advised the term Neo-Conservative is extremely difficult to apply accurately; one would have to invest oneself in the Conservative philosophy (such as it exists) in order to be using the label properly, and this cannot be done merely by taking the word of a source such as the New York Times.

I think, for your purposes (since you don&#39;t like any conservatives), that the unadorned term should suffice.

As re: the "Village Idiot" comment, when was the U.K. last ministered by someone who didn&#39;t also fit that particular bill?

If I were to pronounce on your country as you do on mine, I&#39;d have to go all the way back to Uncle Winnie, and look how you treated him&#33;

[Rat Faced]

For avoidance of doubt; as we have been through this differing interpretations before...

To me Republicans are extreme Right Wing, and Neo-Conservatives.

To me Democrats are merely Right Wing, and Conservatives.

I havent seen any Left Wing politics coming out of the USA, except for the odd Tee Shirt with Lennon on, to piss off the kids parents.


I have often said that Blaire is an arsehole, just like Bush.

An Idiot has opinions of his own however, so we elected a poodle.

I&#39;ll leave it to you to decide which is the greater stupidity, i have no opinion on the subject