You Still Must Know This Man

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Illuminati+4 April 2004 - 13:08--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Illuminati @ 4 April 2004 - 13:08)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sara5564@1 April 2004 - 22:56
Why were the teachings of such a great man interpreted to result in the oppression of women?

Why are the teachings of such a great man interpreted by extremists to mean death to those who do not follow him?

Why have the teachings of such a great man been interpreted to mean that suicide bombers believe that they are going to heaven to consort with a multitude of virgins?

Why have the teachings of such a great man led to so much baying for blood?

Why have the teachings of such a gerat man been adulterated by those seeking personal power, glory and martydom?

His teachings it seems have been appropriated by the bad guys to justify any act of atrocity....I feel saddened for those who follow the teachings of this great man with dignity and faith.. whilst their extremist bretheren grow in numbers and we all live in fear...that great man must be turning in his grave.

A bit late to come in due to the fact that I rarely like to get involved in discussions about religion, but Agreed.

But is anyone else seeing a similarity between this and...


[/b][/quote]
The diffference is He is the Son of God.

The other chap wasn&#39;t and indeed didn&#39;t claim to be.

Biggles,

The sales pitches can be entirely different. There are those who believe that to commit suicide, whilst murdering your enemy, will guarantee you a place in heaven.

In my belief this will have exactly the opposite effect.

There are those who believe that one should despise those who believe in different things from your own Dogma.

In my mind this is wrong.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. All religion is not the same. Some are based on love and some on hate.

[Biggles]

J&#39;Pol

I am perhaps more jaundiced than I should be.

My view is that most if not all religions have the potential to be about either love or hate.

The sales pitch for the gentler side of each is similar; as indeed is the sales pitch for the hateful side.

Torquemada would have little difficulty in understanding the rhetoric of Bin Laden whereas Martin Luther King had nothing but respect for Ghandi (apologies to the Indian gentleman who taught us the correct spelling - I have forgotten already).

I am not anti-religion, I think they all have a little to offer us as we come to terms with our mortality. In some ways I guess that makes me worse in the eyes of believers than the outright atheist, as I understand but don&#39;t buy in. It is my responsibility and to myself I must be true.

[J'Pol]

Biggles,

The difference is whether the religion teaches hate, or it&#39;s members use the religion as an excuse for it.

There is no doubt that much evil has been caused in the name of Christianity, however that had nothing to do with the teachings of the religion. It was evil men using it as a justification for their own ends.

All societies or organizations can have bad members. Just because there are corrupt Policemen does not make the concept of a body to protect the innocent and to punish the guilty a bad one.

There are however, as I understand it, religions which teach that hate and murder are good things, in the name of that religion. In fact they teach that people who do these things will actually be rewarded for them. This to my mind is a bad thing.

Christianity teaches that we will be punished for the same things. I cannot accept that there is no difference between them. In fact I think there is a stygian gulf.

[sArA]

Originally posted by Biggles+4 April 2004 - 12:26--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Biggles @ 4 April 2004 - 12:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-ilw@3 April 2004 - 19:46

If you are refering to me...

i was talking about peace in response to biggles suggestion that perhaps he might like to embrace Islam.

Was certainly my understandng of ilw&#39;s response.

Although your views would, nevertheless, be interesting to an old cynic like me.

I suspect Peace&#39;s piece was lifted straight from a "use this to proslytise" and he/she may struggle to answer your questions. [/b][/quote]
Must have been half asleep....

appols for missing the whole point of your posts

[Biggles]

Sara

You certainly had ilw and myself baffled.

J&#39;Pol

I agree, although my knowledge of the Koran is limited and I cannot say for certain that such teachings are part and parcel of the core beliefs.

I think that most religions would claim that peace and love were central to their faiths. The holy war was a medieval invention (popular in Christendom as much as anywhere) and sadly there are still elements in Islam that would appear to cling to that medieval mentality.

My own own view is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. These people will ultimately push the Islamic world into the secular, much as we are now; the exact opposite of their aims. God speed the day, I would add (with only the smallest amount of irony)

[J'Pol]

Biggles

Like you I am not familiar with that work, or the central teaching. Or indeed the central Holy Book of any religion. Other than Christianity (or at least my version of it).

However we can say what their leaders / clerics preach. We can listen to them spouting their bile, or we can look at how they treat women.

The organization is not only the words in the books, it is how it is interpreted by its religious leaders. It is what they tell people God wants them to do. What they say is good and evil.

[Biggles]

J&#39;Pol

That is a fair point. Interpretation is everything.

In the Old Testament it is taught that one should take an eye for an eye. This has been interpretated as a command by some advocating harsh penalties and is often used as supporting scripture to commend the death penalty.

It was in fact an early statute of limitation. Prior to this one could take an arm, leg, eye and other essential bits for an eye. The ruling was you could only take an eye for an eye; less would in fact be quite acceptable. This was further emphasised by Jesus expanding on this theme to suggesting we turn the other cheek. He was not contradicting the earlier passage but rather demonstrating its deeper meaning.

Strangely, it is not something talked about much. A point rather well put by the opening lines of the REM song New Test Leper imho.

However, it is not my place to expound another&#39;s religion.

[J'Pol]

Biggles

After all this time The Pagans and The Catholics have reached accord. We are reconciled and we can move on.

It is to your credit, you old Druid.

Live long in Possil

[Alex H]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@4 April 2004 - 13:28
Like you I am not familiar with that work, or the central teaching. Or indeed the central Holy Book of any religion. Other than Christianity (or at least my version of it).

Y&#39;all see how the world would be a better place if more people just sat down with a good book?

[Peace]

sara5564 Posted: 1 April 2004 - 21:56


Why were the teachings of such a great man interpreted to result in the oppression of women?

Why are the teachings of such a great man interpreted by extremists to mean death to those who do not follow him?

Why have the teachings of such a great man been interpreted to mean that suicide bombers believe that they are going to heaven to consort with a multitude of virgins?

Why have the teachings of such a great man led to so much baying for blood?

Why have the teachings of such a gerat man been adulterated by those seeking personal power, glory and martydom?

His teachings it seems have been appropriated by the bad guys to justify any act of atrocity....I feel saddened for those who follow the teachings of this great man with dignity and faith.. whilst their extremist bretheren grow in numbers and we all live in fear...that great man must be turning in his grave.

First of all I am not a Muslim … the truth should be appreciated as I think.
You have ALL THE RIGHT to ask about this (because I asked the same thing in the beginning ), but can I ask one thing…and I will answer it by my self after your permission.

May I ask who told you what you have explained about?
Answer: TV, Movies, Newspapers. we i mentioned that they are washing our brains .. i mean it, see this https://filesharingtalk.com/index.php...ic=106960&st=0

The scientific way that was approved by all standard to study any phenomena irrespectively is it good or bad is to go to its home and start doing the observations and talking notices abstractly ...without giving any personal opinion about it, then to give a judgment (mind judgment … not the TV’s Judgment) about it.

I will give you complete answers about what you have asked about, I red about it from the book that he believed in which they called Koran, and from the history books around which I hope I will be able to find. As I said it doesn’t matter what religion he is or you are… but it’s the TRUTH.

and forgive me if i made a mistake
thanks all