Told To Kill By God

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Busyman+5 April 2004 - 00:10--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 5 April 2004 - 00:10)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@4 April 2004 - 18:44
God and religion have nothing to do with anything.

Take them away and I guarantee there&#39;d be anarchy.

Sorry to break it to ya but they both keep alot of people "in line".

Call it cooky. [/b][/quote]
You are absolutely right BM.

People with nothing to lose would cause this anarchy.

I am fortunate to be a shepard and not a sheep.

God will never go of business because he is needed so badly.

Ever listen to the lyrics of Tupac? Really enlightened me to a world I didn&#39;t know existed.

Where does a man go when he is at the bottom?

[Biggles]

Busyman

I am not convinced by your assertion that religion (presumably any religion) is essential to social order.

All that is required is that members buy into the society that they live in. Europe is largely secular with about 14% attending religious services. The other 86% are not on a rampage. I don&#39;t believe crime is any worse in Europe than anywhere else, our murder rate is in fact lower than most despite having fairly lax penalties for serious crimes.

That is not to say that the social situation where you live is the same. I appreciate the US is trying to glue a lot of disparate cultures together and religion may have a role there I don&#39;t know. However, if that is the case, religion performs a specific and not a general rule.

[sArA]

I gather there is a very fine line of interpretation between auditory hallucination and divine messages..

I guess that in a different context, not knowing what those children would have grown up to be, means that we do not know if she was killing the next hitler based on direct instructions from God. You never know, she could have prevented global anihillation (sp??). Saints were said to have been in direct communication with God so were they insane or inspired..we will never know...nor can we be sure with her....

[ilw]

Journalist Arnon Regular wrote, in the June 26 edition of Ha&#39;aretz (Israel&#39;s most reputable newspaper), that he has minutes of a meeting among top-level Palestinian leaders, including Prime Minister Mahmoud Abas. The minutes are apparently quite detailed, because Regular wrote a long article recounting very specific conversations. The last paragraph of the article reads:

"According to Abbas, Bush said: &#39;God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.&#39;"

Before you jump to any conclusions, remember that you are reading a translation of a translation of a translation. Mahmoud Abas does not speak English. Bush does not speak Arabic. If Bush said these words, or something like them, Abas heard them from a translator. Then Abas repeated them, as he remembered them a couple of weeks later, in Arabic. Some unknown person wrote down what he thought he heard Abas say. Then Regular, or someone at Ha&#39;aretz, translated them back into English-or perhaps first into Hebrew and then into English.

June last year

[Biggles]

Originally posted by Busyman+4 April 2004 - 23:13--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 4 April 2004 - 23:13)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Biggles@4 April 2004 - 18:54
Busyman

I think you will find that the concept of adultery has more to do with whose children are inheriting whose property. In a patriarchal society, the idea that another man&#39;s son will inherit your land tends to cause dismay. Morality has little to do with it. Not that it ever stopped people anyhoo.&nbsp;

The ancient Picts of Scotland were matriarchal on the basis that you always knew who your mother was. Consequently, even the linage of the crown was passed down the mother&#39;s side. This ended in the 9th century when the Northern Picts joined with the Southern Scots (who were by then patriarchal) and the unified state was formed.

I presume this lady is receiving medical care somewhere secure - just in case her receiver goes into overdrive again.

Uh...no Biggles.

You are explaining a possible "origin" that doesn&#39;t apply to todays minds. [/b][/quote]


Regardless, the "Not that it ever stopped people anyhoo" bit applies as much today as it ever did.

[vidcc]

I did mention Abraham as it would be an example where god, even if it was just a test and he stopped it in time, did order a father to kill (sacrifice) his son. Which is one of the reasons i posed the original question....we believe in the story in the bible but we couldn&#39;t believe someone that said god asked the same of them.
We also deny that god would ask such a bad thing yet when bad things happen it&#39;s often said to be gods will or god has his reasons for allowing such things.
We believe that god spoke to certain people in the bible but feel that if he spoke to someone today that person is mentally unstable. It&#39;s not just doubters like myself that feel this.



Ok here&#39;s another question in the same area.

How come believers are sure that there will be a second coming of Christ and yet if anyone says they are that person, they are ridiculed and reviled? (David Ike)

[hobbes]

Originally posted by vidcc@5 April 2004 - 01:18
I did mention Abraham as it would be an example where god, even if it was just a test and he stopped it in time, did order a father to kill (sacrifice) his son. Which is one of the reasons i posed the original question....we believe in the story in the bible but we couldn&#39;t believe someone that said god asked the same of them.
We also deny that god would ask such a bad thing yet when bad things happen it&#39;s often said to be gods will or god has his reasons for allowing such things.
We believe that god spoke to certain people in the bible but feel that if he spoke to someone today that person is mentally unstable. It&#39;s not just doubters like myself that feel this.



Ok here&#39;s another question in the same area.

How come believers are sure that there will be a second coming of Christ and yet if anyone says they are that person, they are ridiculed and reviled? (David Ike)

That is exactly why this is such a good post, it makes people think.

[vidcc]

Originally posted by hobbes@4 April 2004 - 16:23
That is exactly why this is such a good post, it makes people think.

Shush...you will be accused of understanding my post and therefore be childish and uninformed

Sorry jpol but i had to say something considering your opening remarks

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Biggles@4 April 2004 - 19:20
Busyman

I am not convinced by your assertion that religion (presumably any religion) is essential to social order.

All that is required is that members buy into the society that they live in. Europe is largely secular with about 14% attending religious services. The other 86% are not on a rampage. I don&#39;t believe crime is any worse in Europe than anywhere else, our murder rate is in fact lower than most despite having fairly lax penalties for serious crimes.

That is not to say that the social situation where you live is the same. I appreciate the US is trying to glue a lot of disparate cultures together and religion may have a role there I don&#39;t know. However, if that is the case, religion performs a specific and not a general rule.

That is soooooo black and white that it sounds like a census report.

So 86 percent of Europe are atheist or agnostic?

I don&#39;t regularly attend religious services but I still have my religious beliefs.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by vidcc+5 April 2004 - 01:26--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc @ 5 April 2004 - 01:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@4 April 2004 - 16:23
That is exactly why this is such a good post, it makes people think.

Shush...you will be accused of understanding my post and therefore be childish and uniformed

Sorry jpol but i had to say something considering your opening remarks [/b][/quote]
Damn right I&#39;m uniformed