Peace Offer From Bin Laden

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Alex H@16 April 2004 - 00:24
What exactly has he lied about?

And how many Iraqi civilians have been killed by US soldiers? Innocent people get killed in wars. That is the nature of war: people die.

That's not the point.

You believe he wouldn't lie because he hasn't lied about killing innocents.
"Awww man, when Osama says he wants peace, he must reeeeallly mean it then"

Ever heard the saying," Ya can't trust a crook"? Obviously not because this is a terrorist and he's obviously earned your respect. I will never "respect" a person that targets babies because they were born here.

Oh and to address you edit...
How do you know they were inncoent?

ex. There have been pregnant suicide bombers.
If an American shot this person running past a checkpoint the Arab media would cry foul.
Al-Jazeera and the like have their spin-doctors too.
If believe the Western media spins everything and the Arab media does not then again, you are more screwed than I thought.

Do you think American soldiers just go through Iraqi towns and purposely shoot them in the back? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are nutjob soldiers in ANY army but use YOUR DAMN BRAIN MAN!!!

All Americans are not automatons like you.

[Alex H]

You know what the chances of being hurt or killed by a terrorist in the US in 2000? Zero.
The chances of being hurt or killed in 2002? Zero.
2001? Blip on the statistical radar. Shit happens.

Are you seriously suggesing that you can take $400 billion out of your budget to spend on defence (letting your schools falls to bits) on the chance that a terrorist might blow a few dozen people up? Its not like you would be fighting a pitched battle on the streets for months or years.

And it's not like ALL your schools, colleges, hospitals etc would get blown up all at the same time. Maybe one here or there. If you were unlucky.

I can tell you something that will definatly happen: take money away from health and education and there [B]will[B] be effects.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Alex H+16 April 2004 - 00:44--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H &#064; 16 April 2004 - 00:44)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You know what the chances of being hurt or killed by a terrorist in the US in 2000? Zero.
The chances of being hurt or killed in 2002? Zero.
2001? Blip on the statistical radar. Shit happens.

Are you seriously suggesing that you can take &#036;400 billion out of your budget to spend on defence (letting your schools falls to bits) on the chance that a terrorist might blow a few dozen people up? Its not like you would be fighting a pitched battle on the streets for months or years.

And it&#39;s not like ALL your schools, colleges, hospitals etc would get blown up all at the same time. Maybe one here or there. If you were unlucky.

I can tell you something that will definatly happen: take money away from health and education and there [b]will be effects.

You know the chance of hijackers flying a plane into the World Trade Center?
You know the chance of a saran gas attack in a crowded subway tunnel?
You know the chance of a gas attack in a New York tunnel?

Originally posted by Alex H@
And it&#39;s not like ALL your schools, colleges, hospitals etc would get blown up all at the same time. Maybe one here or there.

Ohhh that&#39;s all?&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Man what was I thinking?

<!--QuoteBegin-Alex H
I can tell you something that will definatly happen: take money away from health and education and there will be effects[/quote]

And ya know what? When I spray my car with water, mark my words, it has an "effect" on the dirt stuck to it.

Sh....Sh.....STFU&#33;&#33;&#33; You are cracking me the fuck up ova here&#33;&#33;&#33;

Actually don&#39;t STFU&#33;&#33;&#33; Please keep goin&#39; for a wee bit fun mate.

[Alex H]

Originally posted by Busyman+16 April 2004 - 04:43--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 16 April 2004 - 04:43)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Ever heard the saying," Ya can&#39;t trust a crook"? Obviously not because this is a terrorist and he&#39;s obviously earned your respect. I will never "respect" a person that targets babies because they were born here.

Oh and to address you edit...
How do you know they were inncoent?

ex. There have been pregnant suicide bombers.
If an American shot this person running past a checkpoint the Arab media would cry foul.
Al-Jazeera and the like have their spin-doctors too.
If believe the Western media spins everything and the Arab media does not then again, you are more screwed than I thought.

Do you think American soldiers just go through Iraqi towns and purposely shoot them in the back? Don&#39;t get me wrong, I&#39;m sure there are nutjob soldiers in ANY army but use YOUR DAMN BRAIN MAN&#33;&#33;&#33;

All Americans are not automatons like you. [/b]

Originally posted by Alex H+16 April 2004 - 00:24--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H &#064; 16 April 2004 - 00:24)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> What exactly has he lied about?

And how many Iraqi civilians have been killed by US soldiers? Innocent people get killed in wars. That is the nature of war: people die.

That&#39;s not the point.

You believe he wouldn&#39;t lie because he hasn&#39;t lied about killing innocents.
"Awww man, when Osama says he wants peace, he must reeeeallly mean it then"[/b]

I don&#39;t know about your point. My point was: What reason do you have for not believing the peace offer is real?

Originally posted by Busyman
Ever heard the saying," Ya can&#39;t trust a crook"? Obviously not because this is a terrorist and he&#39;s obviously earned your respect.

Define "crook".

Originally posted by Busyman
How do you know they were inncoent?

How do youknow the 3000 odd people killed on 9/11 were "innocent". What is innocence? If you kill someone in self defence (as a f*cking example, not in reference to specific people) are you innocent? If you run a company that pollutes the environment are you innocent? If you know that the guy down the street bashes his wife and you do nothing about it, are you innocent?

bin Laden killed 3000 people that day, and he is guilty of that, but don&#39;t make assumptions of the morality of the people who died. Who knows, maybe one of them was planning a mass fraud that would have ruined the lives of millions of people. Don&#39;t just say they were innocent, because nobody is. They didn&#39;t deserve to die that day though.

<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@
Al-Jazeera and the like have their spin-doctors too.
If believe the Western media spins everything and the Arab media does not then again, you are more screwed than I thought.[/quote]

Al-Jazeera is practically the ONLY Arab news network, and the US media kickied up a HUGE stink when they started broadcasting. Perhaps it was because there was suddenly an ARAB propaganda machine to challenge their own?

<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman
Do you think American soldiers just go through Iraqi towns and purposely shoot them in the back? [/quote]

No, I don&#39;t. But how the American military can spend millions of dollars on "precision" bombs that go off target and crash into civilian areas does require some explaination. The numbr of "friendly-fire" incidents is another example. "Whoops. Oh well, they weren&#39;t our boys.

All Americans are not automatons like you.

Really?

[Alex H]

Originally posted by Alex H+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
I can tell you something that will definatly happen: take money away from health and education and there will be effects

<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman
And ya know what? When I spray my car with water, mark my words, it has an "effect" on the dirt stuck to it.&nbsp;

[/b][/quote]

Thats my point. Why would you take away so much money that can help the society you live in to decrease the already miniscule chance of a terrorist attack?

What do you think will happen in 20 years time when all the kids who got a poor education in schools with shitty facilities grow up and find that there were no new doctors trained to look after them, and they have virtually no chance of ever getting social security, and there are no drug-rehab centers or councelling services to help them get their shit together?

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Alex H+16 April 2004 - 01:11--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H @ 16 April 2004 - 01:11)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by Busyman+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ever heard the saying," Ya can&#39;t trust a crook"? Obviously not because this is a terrorist and he&#39;s obviously earned your respect.[/b]

Define "crook".

Originally posted by Busyman
How do you know they were inncoent?

How do youknow the 3000 odd people killed on 9/11 were "innocent". What is innocence? If you kill someone in self defence (as a f*cking example, not in reference to specific people) are you innocent? If you run a company that pollutes the environment are you innocent? If you know that the guy down the street bashes his wife and you do nothing about it, are you innocent?

bin Laden killed 3000 people that day, and he is guilty of that, but don&#39;t make assumptions of the morality of the people who died. Who knows, maybe one of them was planning a mass fraud that would have ruined the lives of millions of people. Don&#39;t just say they were innocent, because nobody is. They didn&#39;t deserve to die that day though.

Originally posted by Busyman
Al-Jazeera and the like have their spin-doctors too.
If believe the Western media spins everything and the Arab media does not then again, you are more screwed than I thought.

Al-Jazeera is practically the ONLY Arab news network, and the US media kickied up a HUGE stink when they started broadcasting. Perhaps it was because there was suddenly an ARAB propaganda machine to challenge their own?

<!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@
Do you think American soldiers just go through Iraqi towns and purposely shoot them in the back?

No, I don&#39;t. But how the American military can spend millions of dollars on "precision" bombs that go off target and crash into civilian areas does require some explaination. The numbr of "friendly-fire" incidents is another example. "Whoops. Oh well, they weren&#39;t our boys.

All Americans are not automatons like you.

Really? [/b][/quote]
Alex H I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your fortitude in keeping up these posts.
They are a hoot and a holler&#33;&#33;&#33;


Now regarding the 3000 innocent rant.....

OBL targeted babies. Nuff sai...actually not. That was an idiotic post. It almost had a point. I think that point was "You did something wrong in your lifetime, so die"
Ya gotta love the back up to save face...<!--QuoteBegin-Alex H
They didn&#39;t deserve to die that day though.[/quote]
Nice goin&#39;


Regarding friendly fire.....

American soldiers have killed........American soldiers. That&#39;s a nice spin by trying to make ALL friendly-fire incidents....non American. Do you work for Al-Jazeera? Is your other name "Peace"?

[Alex H]

No, I couldn&#39;t spell that badly if I tried.

[Alex H]

Originally posted by Busyman+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I think that point was "You did something wrong in your lifetime, so die"
Ya gotta love the back up to save face...
<!--QuoteBegin-Alex H)

They didn&#39;t deserve to die that day though.

Nice goin&#39; [/b][/quote]

That wasn&#39;t a "back up". That was an actual point about why a non-combatant should not simply be called an "innocent". It doesn&#39;t mean "You did something wrong in your lifetime, so die", it means that living in a universe full of completely random events, one has to accept the fact that people die before old age. I also don&#39;t think that "natural causes" is a good description of death. Being hit my a car and having your skull cracked open is not a usual way to die, but in nature a massive blow to the head will cause death. Falling off a cliff is a "natural" way to die too, in that gravity is a natural force which you have to deal with in life.

Regarding friendly fire.....

American soldiers have killed........American soldiers. That&#39;s a nice spin by trying to make ALL friendly-fire incidents....non American.

My point on that (and you&#39;re calling me stupid?) was again that shit happens. Sure, bin Laden bombed the WTC and killed people. America invaded Iraq and killed people. Not the same thing, but the same result.

The difference is that Osama bin Laden can do it really cheaply, whereas the US spends billions of dollars and still kills the wrong people.

And that is money that could be much better spent elsewhere.

[Busyman]

Originally posted by Alex H+16 April 2004 - 02:11--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H @ 16 April 2004 - 02:11)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by Busyman@
I think that point was "You did something wrong in your lifetime, so die"
Ya gotta love the back up to save face...
<!--QuoteBegin-Alex H)

They didn&#39;t deserve to die that day though.

Nice goin&#39;

That wasn&#39;t a "back up". That was an actual point about why a non-combatant should not simply be called an "innocent". It doesn&#39;t mean "You did something wrong in your lifetime, so die", it means that living in a universe full of completely random events, one has to accept the fact that people die before old age. I also don&#39;t think that "natural causes" is a good description of death. Being hit my a car and having your skull cracked open is not a usual way to die, but in nature a massive blow to the head will cause death. Falling off a cliff is a "natural" way to die too, in that gravity is a natural force which you have to deal with in life.

Regarding friendly fire.....

American soldiers have killed........American soldiers. That&#39;s a nice spin by trying to make ALL friendly-fire incidents....non American.

My point on that (and you&#39;re calling me stupid?) was again that shit happens. Sure, bin Laden bombed the WTC and killed people. America invaded Iraq and killed people. Not the same thing, but the same result.

The difference is that Osama bin Laden can do it really cheaply, whereas the US spends billions of dollars and still kills the wrong people.

And that is money that could be much better spent elsewhere. [/b][/quote]
Let me sum up your post.

Shit happens, people die.

OBL is a more efficient killer.


Great points once again.

You should be commended.


Keep it comin&#39;. You&#39;re on a roll.

[MalaDzen]

Hey, guys

From a muslim persons perspective, I believe that he is fighting against the oppression of muslim people and for Islam. Ofcourse i do not condone his actions and the way he is going about fighting his war against the suppression of the Islamic faith by Western world is not the right way.

I come from a country where there was ethnic cleansing of muslims and many members in my community feel that we have been victims of suppression of the muslim people. And just like the palestinians and the cheychens we were up against a force stronger and more armed than ourselves and yet nothing was done to stop the killing of my people.

What I dont understand is, when a Palestinian &#39;terrorist&#39; attacks the jewish people we call out "terrorist attack" but when the israeli army uses Guns and bombs to kill Palestinian civilians and to drive out these people from their homes, no one says a thing. It is just allowed to go on endlessly, whilst American keep supplying Israel with military supplies so they can continue their killing of the Palestinian people.

Basically in my view this has happened in many places where muslims have been attacked and it has simply been ignored by the rest of the world. If I had been driven out of my home and my people were being killed everyday, and no one was listening to my cries for help, F*ck I might even consider blowing myself up.

Now I know im gonna get my ass whipped for writting this

But im not saying Osama Bin Laden is doing the right thing in killing innocent people, remember that he has also killed many muslims in the name of Allah.. but he may possibly be serious about this peace offer, if muslims are allowed to live in peace around the world, and their pleas for help are heard

May allah(swt) lead all of the muslims of this world on the right path.