O'reilly Vs. Moore

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Biggles+29 July 2004 - 21:43--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Biggles &#064; 29 July 2004 - 21:43)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by hobbes@29 July 2004 - 23:27
<!--QuoteBegin-Biggles

@29 July 2004 - 21:08
Hobbes
I believe that Saddam was pursuing political goals, not ones of world domination. His track record would suggest that he was a player of such games rather than a serious military threat.

And you spelled Kaddaffi wrong&#33;

Hobbes


Perhaps, although I think AQ or similar agents would be more likely to buy an ex-Soviet warhead on the black market. Saddam tended to move politically rather than erratically (like a mad baddie in the 60s Batman series).



I have also seen it spelt Quadaffi. Arabic words tend to be moveable feasts on the spelling front[/b][/quote]
Russian black market warheads? Thanks for that nightmare.

As for Khadaffi, there is really only 1 way to spell it, obviously.

[SuperJude™]

Saddam as terrorist fighting liberator?

RF, sometimes I think you could just pick any side of an argument and stick to it. Heh.

Since nobody has said it I will: Wonder what the "Arab Street" thought of seeing Saddam not dead but......arrested.

Despots are everywhere and no nation is clean of concience. None. Look at your personal lives, your regrets and failures, remember that these people we elect and then expect to be über-humans are still just humans. I say any one of us in a position of power would end up screwing somebody, or getting somebody killed, that is the way of world politics, and will be when we are worm food.

What amazes me here is that Mr. Moore is getting so much play. Were I the democrats I would hide him far far away. It&#39;s not a good thing when Al Sharpton is considered a more middle of the road speaker.

What I see is what I have always seen, that the US makes the world a little nervous. I remember a term "ugly American" that I have not heard used in quite some time, and to me it seems perhaps many of the liberals took umbrage to that concept so much so that we end up with a group of people no better than those they "hate".

I remember after 9-11 people in my town actually saying this: "We had it coming"

Not saying all liberals are that shallow of course, but there is here a pervasive ignorance of the facts that astounds me, and I think of myself as pretty unastoundable personally. If these people had their way we would have turned the other cheek , which works well for Messiahs but not for nations.

-SJ™

[vidcc]

I would like to inject something to think about.

Why is the USA such a target ? is there a reason and if there is what are we doing about that reason.
I love this country but it&#39;s not perfect and has been guilty of mischief as much as many of the other countries we accuse.

Terrorists need to be punished but they are the symtom of the desease and not the cure so we need to find the medicine to treat the desease as well as releaving the symtoms.

I wonder just how worried a terroist that is prepared to blow himself up for his cause is by the threat of being told we will kill him.

I would also like to make a distinction. Terrorists are not countries otherwise they would be armies.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by vidcc@29 July 2004 - 23:57
I would like to inject something to think about.

Why is the USA such a target ? is there a reason and if there is what are we doing about that reason.
I love this country but it&#39;s not perfect and has been guilty of mischief as much as many of the other countries we accuse.

Terrorists need to be punished but they are the symtom of the desease and not the cure so we need to find the medicine to treat the desease as well as releaving the symtoms.

I wonder just how worried a terroist that is prepared to blow himself up for his cause is by the threat of being told we will kill him.

I would also like to make a distinction. Terrorists are not countries otherwise they would be armies.

#1 You are drunk. Way too many typos for you.

#2 Suicide bombers are the idiot loser pawns of motivated individuals.

#3 Unless you know how to unify the world under one religion, then you have no chance at addressing the motivating force behind terrorism.

#4 The threats are for the governments which support terrorists and will be held accountable for their actions.

Simple as can be, really.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by vidcc@29 July 2004 - 20:57


Terrorists need to be punished but they are the symtom of the desease and not the cure so we need to find the medicine to treat the desease as well as releaving the symtoms.

I wonder just how worried a terroist that is prepared to blow himself up for his cause is by the threat of being told we will kill him.

Exactly how do you "punish" a terrorist, vid?

You miss the point you yourself make so well in your next paragraph.

We don&#39;t propose to kill terrorists to "punish" them, or to "terrorize" other terrorists, or to teach any sort of lesson; we do it simply to eliminate them and the threat they present.

It really is just that simple.

If, when all is said and done, flipping great wodges of people have been eliminated (because they chose terrorism as their life&#39;s work), I hope to dance on their graves, which I will do without the slightest thought of inherent waste of human life.

Sorry if by espousing this view I paint myself as somehow less worldly or enlightened than yourself, but, hey, I&#39;ve only lived in the good ole&#39; USA.

[vidcc]

Originally posted by hobbes@29 July 2004 - 19:14
#1 You are drunk. Way too many typos for you.

#1 i am a tee total dyslexic

#2 Suicide bombers are the idiot loser pawns of motivated individuals

#2 granted but they must believe in what they are doing, would you lay down your life for a cause you were not sure about?

#3 Unless you know how to unify the world under one religion, then you have no chance at addressing the motivating force behind terrorism.

to address this theory one would have to say that all terrorism was because of religion. I feel it is more political based and religion is often misquoted as justification. Muslims are not at war with us....just some people that happen to be muslims as in the 9/11 case

#4 The threats are for the governments who support terrorists and will be held accountable for their actions.

but what is support of terroism? the IRA had a lot of funding from the USA. Does that mean that we support terrorists?. Our foriegn policy could be subject to a closer look i suppose. Had the 9/11 gang hit targets in iraq would they still be terrorists? (yes they would before anyone picks up on it)

is it good enough to just suspect or do you feel FACTUAL evedence is needed and if we make a mistake should we be free from accountability because we "suspected"

[Busyman]

Originally posted by BigBank_Hank+29 July 2004 - 18:00--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BigBank_Hank &#064; 29 July 2004 - 18:00)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by Busyman@29 July 2004 - 15:45
<!--QuoteBegin-BigBank_Hank

@29 July 2004 - 11:08
So you would have done nothing?

Hank R.I.F.

I would have stepped up the intel, using spies whenever possible.

Busy did you not read J2’s post right before yours?

I would have stepped up the intel, using spies whenever possible.

You can&#39;t.

Your abilities to spy were gutted in the 70s by the Church Committee

[/b][/quote]
Sorry at the time I read what you had to say.

I still stick by what I had to say.

I am amazed that when the initial reason, or should I say the "imminent threat of WMD", was a bunch of cow pucky, that the new justification is "but, but we had to get rid of a dictator."

Just say Bush fucked up as out leader and leave it at that.

All other arguments are moot when looking at N. Korea and Iran.

IF OUR PRESIDENT IS GOING MAKE A IMPORTANT DECISION TO COMMIT A GREAT AMOUNT OF GROUND TROOPS TO WAR, HE BETTER BE DAMN SURE IT&#39;S FOR AN "IMMINENT THREAT".

900+ TROOPS DEAD

....but we got rid of a horrible dictator.

One down, 15 to go.

Wanna sign up to defend our country?

[hobbes]

No way Vidcc, you have way too many typos than your norm. I call bullshit.

The suicide bombers believe in what they are doing because their religion decrees that they will get virgins in paradise. Ever heard of "faith".

I NEVER said all terrorism was based in Religion, but this is true of Al Queda and the anger towards America in the Muslim world. That is the "nidus".

Your comments about the IRA are total bullshit. The IRA launders money here, the people and the government have no interest in their cause and assist them in no way.

How can an honest man equate create a parallel between laundering money for the IRA and a government which openly allows a group a military base and weapons. That simply does not exist in the US.

If you could bother to read the thread, where did I ever say that the attack was justified. Never, thanks.

Vidcc, do you believe the lies you tell yourself?

[vidcc]

Originally posted by hobbes@29 July 2004 - 19:48
No way Vidcc, you have way too many typos than your norm. I call bullshit.

seeing as you choose a lower level of debate today with foul language you show yourself to be not a balanced person as you would have us believe.
So because for one evening i don&#39;t go over my post with a fine tooth comb i am bullshitting. I guess i am not a tee totaller and not dyslexic...how i have been misleading myself all this time. My appologies for not knowing anything about myself and therefore talking out my ass.

The suicide bombers believe in what they are doing because their religion decrees that they will get virgins in paradise.&nbsp; Ever heard of "faith".&nbsp;

sorry i forgot you are a mind reader and know what is going on in the head of others. You may be right in many cases but my point is that Islam doesn&#39;t decree killing and that the terrorists and many people are using religion as a convienience. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to why a muslim would want to kill me for not being a muslim. A terrorist that happens to be a muslim might want to kill me for being an American though.

I NEVER said all terrorism was based in Religion, but this is true of Al Queda and the anger towards America in the Muslim world.&nbsp; That is the "nidus".

well i was answering your theory that to address the cause of terrorism one needs a unified religion. So how would you address non religious terrorism?

Your comments about the IRA are total bullshit.&nbsp; The IRA launders money here, the people and the government have no interest in their cause and assist them in no way.

can an honest man equate create a parallel between laundering money for the IRA and a government which openly allows a group a military base and weapons.&nbsp; That simply does not exist in the US.

However i have yet to see someone suggest that any kind of terrorist activity in the ME attributed to anyone other than the governments of those countries.

as to the IRA you have perhaps never been in certain bars in new york and seen "collections" And would you be so forgiving of a middle eastern country that launders money for al Queda in the same way as happened in the US? Or could ME countries only do this because they have anti American agendas?

If you could bother to read the thread, where did I ever say that the attack was justified.&nbsp; Never,

Where did i say that you suggested it was justified?. Is posing questions the same as stating something then?

Vidcc, do you believe the lies you tell yourself?

Same question to yourself

[hobbes]

Vidcc,

I didn&#39;t mean that you were necessarily drunk, I meant that you were in a state other than your norm. Tired, angry, high- something that made you rush your post or be careless. Since we know Sam4, I made the most likely guess of you being drunk.

All I have time for. I will wash my mouth out with soap for my profanity.

Your attempt to equate collections in local bars for the IRA as equivalent to government sanctioned military bases is the lie you are telling to yourself.

What lie and I telling myself? And in another thread, I already answered this question for you..

Now this may be sloppy, but I am seriously late for work.