What I Think About Chirac

[ezyryder]

I am not a frenchman, I am scottish (hence the avator) but I feel the french get too much greif over the two world wars. During the war french were weak and terrified of Germany. Since Otto Von Bismarck (please tell me you all know who he is?) brought unity to germany in 1871 France have been scared. It goes back to Napoleon who re-shaped some of the few hundred german states into fewer (38 I believe) and what was not formaly Germany didn't like this hence beethovan and schiller composed anti-french peices. So there has a long time after that been heat between them and then the Spanish Civil War happend where Germany done thier first ever blitzkreig feared france further. So france taking the scared stance knowing there was already a conquering plan is understandable. I mean the Treaty of Versilles was extremely unfair to Germany and pushed largly by France so they had a right to be scared when Hitler spoke out which was why France was so pro-appeasement and despite feeling awkward with invasion into the Rhineland and their army exceeding the numbers they didn't want to provoke conflict.

but to say the French enjoyed the Nazi occupation is wrong it is just since Bismarck especially (when he a fool of Napoleons newphew, Napoleon III) the French war confidence had been beaten so it was fear I believe.

Anyway, I am not going to give my opinion on who helped this war finish and I will not quote anything A.J.P Taylor says about it but French men died on the soil alongside Americans, British Russians and you name it to keep a more peacefully shaped Europe away from a dictatorship. Mistakes were made and during the war, every country had major faults and made bad choices only for thier own country. So think not about what country was pro-hitler or anti-hitler and what country helped this war end think only about the many men women and children who fell for a pointless war on some Austrians fasination with the work of Bismarck and still have the 2 minutes silence on the 11th of the 11th at 11'o clock to remember the lifes lost.

[J'Pol]

Re Chirac

It´s not about either of the previous wars mentioned.

It´s not about this war.

It´s about French investments in the region. Killing the Goose that lays the golden eggs. There is a lot of economic pressure, particularly from some major players in France, who didn´t want this to happen.

I would not be at all surprised to find that there are some embarassing "secrets". In the region in general and in Iraq in particular.

Just so as my position is clear. I am against war. However sometimes not to act is the worse option.

To paraphrase. For evil to succeed it takes only that good men do nothing.

[fallenknight308]

Originally posted by soopaman+29 March 2003 - 02:47--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (soopaman @ 29 March 2003 - 02:47)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ketoprak@29 March 2003 - 11:23


I never said that I was not gratefull to the US participation in WWII (btw, we won the war mostly thanks to a dictator named Stalin and to the 10 000 000 Russians soldiers who died in this war...)

We French live in a real democracy. We can criticize our president, even in time of war...

I&#39;m gonna take exception to your first comment - Big Time&#33;&#33;
"We, fucking WE, won the war". How can you possibly say any French people, with the exception of the Resistance, helped win the Second World War?? The French GLADLY packed Jews off onto the trains to Auschwitz. The majority bent over for the Nazi&#39;s to fuck them. How dare you defile the memories of the brave Allied soldiers that died to save your French Arse. Whilst Stalin may have been sending 10,000,000 men to die, I think the Western Front and the invasion of Italy and North Africa may have helped a bit&#33;&#33; None of which the French helped in any big way. De Gaulle HID in London for the duration of the War and returned a hero which goes to show how shallow the average Frenchman is. The clung desparately onto their fading colonial empire in South East Asia, which in turn dragged the U.S into Vietnam. I&#39;m sure the American board members would all thank you for that&#33;&#33;

You are entitled to your opinion, however misguided, but don&#39;t forget you owe us for saving you from a lifetime of Leiderhosen and David Hasselhoff singing - [FONT=Impact]TWICE&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;[/FONT]

[/b][/quote]
Hell yes, give it to him soopa

[fallenknight308]

Originally posted by ketoprak@29 March 2003 - 02:23

Oh my, what are we to do? its yet one more snooty frenchman talking shit about america. Now don&#39;t get me wrong I do not agree with my president on all levels, but he IS my president and This is MY country.
Let me remind you of a "little" war called WWII.
Lots of americans lie in normandy soil so you wouldn&#39;t all have to be named "hans" and "helga"
I&#39;ve done my history, and apparently you guys enjoyed the nazi occupation
Makes me wonder if the european campaign was worth the cost&#33;

This is out of topic. I was mostly talking about MY president, not YOURS.

I never said that I was not gratefull to the US participation in WWII (btw, we won the war mostly thanks to a dictator named Stalin and to the 10 000 000 Russians soldiers who died in this war...)

Anyway, it seems very strange to me that most Americans can&#39;t criticize their president once he&#39;s elected. Is it like Iraqis who can&#39;t criticize their dictator?

We French live in a real democracy. We can criticize our president, even in time of war...

I am VERY Critcal of bush and his policy and the decisions he has made, but I back him 100% on the war. I don&#39;t want to start up yet another flame war, so let me just say that I respect your opinion, but I believe you may be SLIGHTLY misguided.
Peace B)

[Rat Faced]

Its ironic that the same people that are up in arms over &#39;America Bashing&#39; keep picking on the French...


Why?


They are doing what is in THEIR best economic interests....exactly the same as the USA.


If you hate the French so much, give them their Fucking Statue back.... (Statue of Liberty) ...It must be an unwanted gift.


To those that keep pointing at WWII....It was the French &#39;Authorities&#39; that surrendered, not the French People. Ask any of those Hundreds of Airmen that came down in Europe and were smuggled from house to house through "Vichy France&#39; to Spain and Freedom.

The Free French that you seem to condemn out of hand were some of the bravest men in the war...why? Their FAMILIES were in France, not safe in a free country, thousands of miles from danger.

Yes, their General was an arrogant man.....and didnt hit it off with US President...but are you surprised? The allies kept leaving him out of &#39;the loop&#39; and sidelining him.

I can call the French a lot of things, and often do.....but cowards isnt one of them.

They have as much &#39;pride&#39; in themselves as the USA have. Its not the USA that have had 2 world wars virtually fought on their soil....hell, remember its not just their enemies that bombed them but their allies too.


I can also remember a war in which The French saved the USA with the supply of thousands of troops etc etc........its called The American War of Independance.

[ketoprak]

Thanks Rat Faced.

You&#39;re a fair traditional ennemy.

[sred2003]

hey we all know that france is in bed with saddam.
and alot of truths are going to come out about how deep their relationship goes(pun intended).

have you heard the breaking news though?
the french have been training the iraqi army leading up to this war...




havent you seen how many iraqis are surrendering?

[Schmiggy_JK23]

LMFAO&#33; Touche&#39;&#33;

Good one.

Any how... france has so many economic dealings and dependicies with iraq, its no wonder they were begging for no war... of course, years down the road... they would be the first to give in to saddam and his demands...

yes.. you can thank us now for taking these preventive measures, heaven forbid you have to run around with your arms up and white flags again.