UK troops criticise American forces for 'ruining things'

[vidcc]

My first reaction to this was tuff shit, welcome to the war, boys. I got a little ticked off about the comment that there weren't enough US troops there. Maybe if there were more UK troops there the US troops wouldn't have to be doing two and three rotations, and there wouldn't be stop loss orders, and the US reservists could go home to their families..... but that was the former US Marine talking...

This just shows how out of hand it is, how much of a fuck up Bush started, and maybe the Brits (not Bush's prison bitch Blair, of course) will start talking about pulling their troops before their casualties start going up from 50 something to ??. What pisses me off is that this even has to be happening...

Ok... fire at will....

Well i'll not flame you

however this is an American war that the British helped with, they were under no obligation to do so yet still did, desipite international dissaproval.

[SeK612]

They encountered 4 roadside bombs on the way up there and were delayed by 24 hours due to this. One member of the blackwatch has already died (though this is being reported as a vehicle accident instead of an act of insurgence). I know I wouldn't want to go up there So troops aren't supposed to question the decisions made by those higher up the chain and they're being paid to do such a task, I'm sure the grumblings will increase if the blackwatch start being picked off like the U.S troops have been.

[Neo 721]

Any troops that have been around a while longer than those 19 year olds and served in N. Ireland will see the point of that joke quite well.

True, but those people who served in N Ireland are probably still in Basra and they only sent the 19 year olds to get experienced and then they become the veterens of tomorrow.

[scroff]

Well i'll not flame you

however this is an American war that the British helped with, they were under no obligation to do so yet still did, desipite international dissaproval.

I agree except for the part about it being an American war... this is a Bush war, but I get your point... of course I do recall Blair making his own arguments for invading Iraq, so I might be inclined to call it a Bush/Blair war.

[scroff]

They encountered 4 roadside bombs on the way up there and were delayed by 24 hours due to this. One member of the blackwatch has already died (though this is being reported as a vehicle accident instead of an act of insurgence). I know I wouldn't want to go up there So troops aren't supposed to question the decisions made by those higher up the chain and they're being paid to do such a task, I'm sure the grumblings will increase if the blackwatch start being picked off like the U.S troops have been.

I'm not up on anything much in the UK, but I do have an impression of Brits as being more vocal in their politics than your average American, at least maybe until recently. I hope your guys don't start getting picked off, and if they do, I hope you all start screaming bloody murder...

[hobbes]

I think they are a little more upset, in the fact that they've used different tactics with the locals down there way, and had quite a lot of success in winning the "hearts and minds" (relatively speaking).

Rat,

You are better educated on this than I, but isn't Basra more composed of the oppressed Shia Muslims? This was the city in 1990 that rose up, only to be slaughtered because of lack of coalition support.

These people were the ones who wanted Saddam out.

Contrast this with the Sunni triangle, the area the US is attempting control. The Sunni's were a minority in Iraq, but those favored by Saddam and thus those that have everything to lose.

Democracy would certainly be a royal stake in the ass to a minority who enjoyed priveldge under the favoritism of Saddam.

Are we comparing apples and oranges?

[lynx]

Hobbes, you are certainly right that this "Sunni triangle" is going to be harder to control than the mainly Shia south. However, the apparent tactic of "Shoot first, identify the bad guys (if any) later" is never going to win any friends.

Ok, British troops have a lot of experience in keeping things calmer, but it appears this is a lesson that their US counterparts simply have no desire to learn. Maybe that's deliberate, no-one seems to be sending the troops to that class.

They may be apples and oranges, but overturning the fruit cart doesn't help.

[scroff]

The UK military certainly has more experience in dealing with the populations of countries they occupy, no? The purpose of the US military is to "kill people and break things". That should explain alot....

[Biggles]

Hobbes is correct in that the headline was plucked out of a throw away comment. The UK and US have different military structures and strategies. However, it is not just location. The US troops have been attacked in both Kurdish and Shia areas too. The US is seen as the primary enemy and insurgents will go out of their way to attack US troops.

The UK military has stuck rigidly to tour lengths to maintain morale. This departure was taken for political reasons and the UK troops are rightly unimpressed - they are professionals - the politicians are rank amateurs. To be honest it is not clear what they are supposed to do for 30 days. It will take that long to get set up and work who they are supposed to be protecting and who they are fighting. If there are casualties it will cost the Labour party and in particular Tony Blair. The media (of all political wings) are behind the troops not the Government on this one. If they have have been sent to provide cover for an attack on Falujah it could get very nasty indeed.

About 70 UK troops have died so far. We have around 10% of the forces out there so if things had been equal we would have taken about 130 casualties. I believe Kerry's comments have been taken out of context somewhat. The US have taken 90% of the casualties but they make up about 85% of the force. My understanding of his words was that the US would be bearing a more equitible burden if Bush had gathered more friends to the fold and that US forces played a much smaller part in the proceedings. In Afghanistan much of the ground fighting was done by the Northern Alliance with US, UK, German and French special forces assisting in specific areas. It was air support that gave the Northern Alliance the edge. Interestingly, the media said little or nothing about Northern Alliance casaulties in those battles. Cannon fodder perhaps?