Abortion: For Or Against?

[ilw]

i vote for
theres plenty of people already

[sArA]

I tend towards the view that as the women is the vehicle for conception and carriage of the fetus she has the over-riding say in the matter.

Consequently, I lean towards what is called "choice". However, I do not think that abortion is the best means of birth control and I am increasingly uneasy with just how commonplace it has become.

Notwithstanding ethical or religious arguments, for the want of a condom or pill or coil, valuable medical resources are being used for something that is almost entirely preventable; rape or over-riding medical concerns being obvious exceptions.

I would like to see less reliance on abortion and greater use of intelligent "choice" before the event of conception. This can include abstinence if the individuals feel moved to go down that route but I cannot agree with those who would die in a ditch over extending education and availability of other birth control techniques. There is an underlying socio/religious agenda in the pro-life campaign that repels me and, I suspect, the broader public.

In short I have opted for the third way. This is not an endorsement of New Labour.

Nicely put that man!

[Busyman]

I will here reproduce a selected relevent excerpt from a recent column by William F. Buckley, which is, I think, a very succinct summing-up of JPaul's point.

I echo both the point and sentiment.

Herewith:

By one line of reasoning, a woman has the right to do what she chooses with her own body. That position can be taken, and was taken before Roe v. Wade came into town, by many who defended the right to abort. What the Supreme Court contributed was a constitutional validation. If abortion is a “right,” then perhaps the people who exercise that right are no more contumacious than people who write articles and take political positions. That would be a fundamentalist view of human rights, and there are those who believe that...(any who)...affirm the right to abort...(are)...doing nothing more merely than affirming the exercise of human rights in general.

Other analysts...(are)...fooled by the respect...(they feel)...for the Supreme Court. Since the Court had ruled that abortion was okay, what more argument was there to dwell upon?

There is, of course, the difficulty that the Supreme Court is capable of judgments which, on reflection, observers are free to question, and even to oppose. The overriding question being, of course, whether in the exercise of a “right,” the right of someone else has been transgressed upon. In this case, obviously, the right of the unborn child. If the child has a right, surely it is to live. Therefore, to end his life is to go beyond the plausible limits of the mother’s right.

On abortion, the views of some, pre-Roe and post-Roe, were that no judicial reasoning can validate the expression of freedom when it is invoked in order to obliterate another human life.

Uh yeah, so are you for or against abortion?
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I don't think an embryo has rights. I however think there is a "cutoff" point as to what is a baby and what is not. For instance, abortion at the 7th month is out of the question.

[j2k4]

Uh yeah, so are you for or against abortion?

I chose the third option, which, I am given to understand, you are able to discern without asking the question.
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I don't think an embryo has rights. I however think there is a "cutoff" point as to what is a baby and what is not. For instance, abortion at the 7th month is out of the question.

Though many efforts have been expended, scientific and otherwise, to divine the precise moment life begins, I gather you have determined the 7th month to be the appropriate cutoff; might I inquire how you arrived at this conclusion, or are you merely demonstrating your point?

[Busyman]

I hate that post so much that it is painful for me even to respond to it. However I will as I have no option. I will also apologise in advance to one who I like to consider a friend. Sorry pal, but one has to take a stance on this issue. It's not a compromise, it's a matter of life or death.

Either the unborn are human, or they are not. One cannot draw an entirely arbitrary line. Give them the right to life, or deny it, but for fuck's sake choose. If they are human then they have the same right to life as any one of us. That right is absolute, it is unconditional.

However I accept that in some instances one life may have to be sacrificed for the greater good, hence my agreement with BM's original poll.

Ok then, what instances EXACTLY?

Btw, saying that you hated the post and had no option but to respond was worse than the response that you were apologizing for.

Good friends, good beer :beerchug:

[Busyman]

Though many efforts have been expended, scientific and otherwise, to divine the precise moment life begins, I gather you have determined the 7th month to be the appropriate cutoff; might I inquire how you arrived at this conclusion, or are you merely demonstrating your point?

Read carefully. I said the 7th month is out of the question not the appropriate cutoff. Nice try though for someone who, hmmm, himself, hasn't voiced a stance. Maybe I can find it somewhere by using the Advanced Search.

[Busyman]

This is not an issue I will debate for the sake of debate. As I stated earlier I see this type of discussion as being on behalf of those who cannot have it on their own behalf. As such it is not proper for me to use it as merely an intellectual exercise. Neither is it an option to ignore that which I normally would, for the sake of propriety.

To others this may be a discussion about freedom of choice, or a surgical procedure. To me it is a discussion about the right to life. I believe I agreed that with you earlier.

I gotcha. So basically, you don't want to say what instances you think abortion is cool besides saving the mom (which you stated earlier) nor will you say saving the mom is the only reason. You are not stating this because of the sake of debate or something like that.

Makes perfect sense.

On a side note:
Never go out on a limb....on the internet.

[Rat Faced]

I cant vote here..

Although personally against it, i believe in the Right of the woman to choose.. which means id be voting for...

[Busyman]

My last was in response to

"Btw, saying that you hated the post and had no option but to respond was worse than the response that you were apologizing for "



However in answer to your last point, I do not think it is something for which one can prepare a list. It depends on the exact circumstance of the individual pregnancy. It is not a tick the box issue, at least not for me.

I know of one instance where a man impregnated his own daughter. When that child grew up he impregnated her as well. Now I would say that both children were innocents and had the right to a life. However, much as it pains me I can see that people would argue that abortion was an option in both cases.

In an instance like that I would still argue that the abortion was wrong, the perfectly innocent children were having their lives removed without them having a say. However I can also accept that there are strong arguments in the other direction, with regard to the emotional and mental health of the "mothers" who at the time were little more than children themselves.

However let's be honest, how often is one talking about life and death, or a situation like the above. As opposed to the convenience of the parents.

I understand but some things are black and white as far as what stance one takes regarding a person's rights....

Folks on here are getting all uppity and what not at the wording of the poll.

Maybe a mod can change it to

Abortion: For or Against ....the Right.
No really, change it.

Sure I would love to see no abortions but the issue is are you for or against the right of a woman to have one.

Example....

In instances of rape, incest, or saving the mom, I believe the female has the sole right to chose in ANY case. The only conundrum I have is when in the term is too late.

[Rat Faced]

k, then its FOR... The womans Right to Choose