Now, this is a bit ironic...

[Biggles]

I swear I just posted something here that is no longer there..... but lets try it a second time..

Paul, those figures you posted are a budget, right ? what about money contributed outside the budget such as from private individuals ?
And as I put in my missing post, and as everose stated, we had 4 major hurricanes hit my home state of Florida this past hurricane season (not 3) and hundreds of homes are still not rebuilt. I saw some of this firsthand today, as Dawn and I drove out to Bok Tower gardens, in Lake Wales. Lake Wales seemed to have gotten crossed by 3 of the hurricanes that hit. Where is the aid for those people ? I have had no problem in the past with giving money, I always leave a very large tip when I go out to dinner, usually 50% of the bill. I do however grow sick and tired of the nit-picking.
my conclusion, what I give is my business, and I could care less for whatever the rest of the world thinks of it

I think this is the point I was making. The nit-picking is coming from where? Certainly not the poor people on the ground. If you were in Sri Lanka or Thailand (perhaps not Aceh as it is a war zone) you would find grateful people who really appreciate the help they are getting. The nit-picking is largely the domain of TV news and chat stations. As I said above, Egeland spoke when it looked like there was a problem not after all the giving. Some might argue that Egeland did a good thing.

I am surprised regarding Florida. From TV interviews, people like Jeb bush gave the impression things were under control. There certainly has never been any suggestion that help was required. If the US asked it might be pleasantly surprised.

[RPerry]

You did post it Rob... as an edit to my post earlier, instead of a reply

just cant get the staff

doesn't it suck when you click edit instead of post

I re-edied your post pal, and I'm going to get dawn to make me another drink, last one made me do weired things

[Rat Faced]

If i was over there, i'd be happy for food/water..

I wouldnt give a crap where it was from, just thankful for whoever sent it (and its more likely to come from a private individual via a charity than any Government)

[RPerry]

I think this is the point I was making. The nit-picking is coming from where? Certainly not the poor people on the ground. If you were in Sri Lanka or Thailand (perhaps not Aceh as it is a war zone) you would find grateful people who really appreciate the help they are getting. The nit-picking is largely the domain of TV news and chat stations. As I said above, Egeland spoke when it looked like there was a problem not after all the giving. Some might argue that Egeland did a good thing.

I am surprised regarding Florida. From TV interviews, people like Jeb bush gave the impression things were under control. There certainly has never been any suggestion that help was required. If the US asked it might be pleasantly surprised.

I was surprised myself, although I'm sure the only reason my repairs are done is because I fixed it myself. There are homes around me that are still tarped, and homes right around my old home which is 2 miles away that are still unlivable, including the house of my really good friends whom I used to live right across the street. they must have just managed to get their roof done this week, but the inside is totally destroyed from the water. suposedly, the help shou8ld be there, but I have heard nothing but horror stories from those who requested it.

[RPerry]

If i was over there, i'd be happy for food/water..

I wouldnt give a crap where it was from, just thankful for whoever sent it (and its more likely to come from a private individual via a charity than any Government)

this is my feelings exactly ( thanks paul)
when something of this magnitude happens, to hell with the politics.... It sucks our countires try to make themselves look better ( or worse) by publishing contributions.

[Everose]

Everose..

You think we're all young and earn enough to pay taxes?

No, and my intent was not to in any way infer any other country was being 'stingy.' I just did not want anyone to think in terms of everyone in the United States being even in a financial position to pay taxes.

As to the Drugs thing... well you're government pays a LOT more per head for healthcare (twice the UK does in terms of GDP, I make that about 6x at least in terms $$ per head) and YOU STILL PAY FOR IT PRIVATELY TOO...

I am aware of this. We accept a lot of people from other countries, illegally or not, and pay their medical bills, too, when they cannot afford it. While I am not one that would want anyone to not get medical help if they need it, illegal or not, you surely realize our compassion plays into our total dollars spent on health care?

If you keep electing politicians that wont fight the Drugs Companies and Insurance Companies though...

No need to go there for my benefit. It is a major thorn for me.



In the UK, we'd say someone (about 300,000,000 of them in fact) was getting ripped off big time

I think if you reread my post, you have stated my sentiments exactly.

Could it be that President Bush is realizing a lot of us have this strong feeling about being ripped off and that might just be his hesitancy at giving more of our taxes for relief abroad? No, probably not. Why would our president be aware of our feelings. Silly me.

[j2k4]

I think this is the point I was making. The nit-picking is coming from where? Certainly not the poor people on the ground. If you were in Sri Lanka or Thailand (perhaps not Aceh as it is a war zone) you would find grateful people who really appreciate the help they are getting. The nit-picking is largely the domain of TV news and chat stations. As I said above, Egeland spoke when it looked like there was a problem not after all the giving. Some might argue that Egeland did a good thing.

I am surprised regarding Florida. From TV interviews, people like Jeb bush gave the impression things were under control. There certainly has never been any suggestion that help was required. If the US asked it might be pleasantly surprised.

I agree that the the accusations of niggardliness are largely the milieu of the world media (whose job it is to point out many things that are not there), and many (most?) observers have properly concluded the quibbling is just that and nothing more, but the bottom line is the perception/attitude of the opinion-makers; the why of it all.

As to your last:

1. "Hyper-Powers" don't ask for help.

2. If help were genuinely needed, the "asking" should be unnecessary, the media being as efficient as it is.

I believe you when you say we might just be surprised.

Please believe me when I say that you would also be surprised.

[vidcc]

1. "Hyper-Powers" don't ask for help.

2. If help were genuinely needed, the "asking" should be unnecessary, the media being as efficient as it is.

.

i do believe that the offer is always there, the acceptance may not be though. You must agree that some do make a point of raising the "where was the world when the hurricane hit florida" probably don't appreciate that.

@ perry.

Are any of the problems due to lack of insurance or lack of manpower skilled for the task required?

[Everose]

[QUOTE=vidcc]i do believe that the offer is always there, the acceptance may not be though. You must agree that some do make a point of raising the "where was the world when the hurricane hit florida" probably don't appreciate that.


This person that used the 'where was the world when the hurricane hit Florida' does indeed, appreciate that. Very much so.
And I also feel that phrase is used most often when we Americans are being attacked for having such a high deficit, while on the other hand being called stingy when we are trying to do something about that; or like circumstances.

In the future I will use the blizzards, mudslides, etc. to make my point.

[Maxtor2]

First, this drug thing. Any pill you buy probably cost around 25 cents (US) to make. Many of these pills are sold for upwards of two dollars (US), for good reason. The real price of medicine is not manufacturing a pill, but rather developing it. Everose, that $3 pill cost about $500 million to develop, if not more. And, the cost is not just of that single pill: Pfizer made more than 5,000 compounds in 2002 alone, and only half a dozen of those compounds reached clinical trials. It is unlikely that any of those compounds will pass clinical trials and be approved by the FDA.
So, when you buy a pill, the great majority of the money you spend covers the debt that the drug company racked up over the 15 years (or more, but 15 is about average for Pfizer-type drugs) that separate identifying the harmful bacteria and the release of the drug.
You may notice that almost all drug research and development companies are in the US. This is because Canada, Britain, and the like will tell a drug company that they will pay 50 cents for a pill that costs 25 cents to manufacture. This more than covers the additional cost of transportation, but it does almost nothing to pay for research and development of that pill, much less of the medicines that the company is currently developing. The companies figure that it's better to make a bit of money, rather than none at all, and try to prevent counterfeit drugs that are made in China from finding a market (those counterfeits are no different than the name brand, but the counterfeiting company avoids all the research expenses).

Thus, the US citizen pays virtually all of the costs for medical research, and other countries are able to get those drugs at a severely lower cost.
If those research debts are not paid off, the drug company may go bankrupt and shut down, even though it is making profits from drug sales. In other words, there will be no more drugs, except counterfeits (which there aren't enough of if the real companies close), and no new medicines will be developed. That's why both the US and Canada strongly oppose the scheme of reimporting American-made drugs from Canada.
Rat Faced, it's not the drug companies that are getting rich and screwing their customers, it's the politicians who are screwing drug companies and American consumers. If your medical system wasn’t government-run, you would actually pay the real price for medicines, and Americans would pay far less.


Add a few billion to US international aid, on behalf of its citizens whom pay for the medicines that the world uses.

Now, the aid stuff. American donations to tsunami victims, both government and private (that includes corporate) topped 1 billion a while ago. That's actual aid, not pledges; pledges are quite worthless. Additionally, European donations often have certain restrictions that the money can only be used to buy products made in the nation that donated the money. Thus, many of those donations are little more than subsidized exports. Cut Europe's aid money in half, as the European governments will have half of that "aid money" in a year. European governments will probably get more than half of the money back, but I'm feeling generous today.

In response to the claim that the UN is actually doing something: wrong. The UN is holding conferences, meetings, councils, debates, discussions, and everything else that involves only talking. The only places that aren't crowded with UN bureaucrats are the areas actually effected by the tsunami. When the UN set up its "headquarters" in Indonesia, that headquarters was in a 5-star hotel, which the UN workers have rooms. What do you think was the first thing that the UN did? I'll give you a hint; it wasn't distribute food, water, medicine, or comfort. The priority was to arrange for 24-hour room service. This was before the UN had a fax machine, an inernet connection, or a telephone system worked out.

I'll grab a quote from the UN website (from about January 1st):
------------------------------------------
Mr. Egeland: Our main problems now are in northern Sumatra and Aceh. <...> In Aceh, today 50 trucks of relief supplies are arriving. <...> Tomorrow, we will have eight full airplanes arriving. I discussed today with Washington whether we can draw on some assets on their side, after consultations with the Indonesian Government, to set up what we call an “air-freight handling centre” in Aceh.

Tomorrow, we will have to set up a camp for relief workers – 90 of them – which is fully self-contained, with kitchen, food, lodging, everything, because they have nowhere to stay and we don't want them to be an additional burden on the people there.
------------------------------------------
One problem: the entire statement is a lie. The UN didn't have a single person in Aceh, and the camp there was set up and run by USAID, the US international aid service (as the name implies). Even a week after this quote, only the US and Australia were using airplanes to deliver relief supplies, and I don't think the UN has used an airplane to transport relief supplies yet (the UN bureaucrats arrive on 1st class seats, though). Additionally, US and Australian relief workers were sleeping on the ground and eating food that didn't need to be cooked. You don't need a luxury resort made out of tents to deliver relief supplies.
The UN's first priority was to set up a camp for relief workers. US and Australia decided that they should deliver aid to those on the verge of starving to death before anything else.

By the way, you do not want to sleep out in the open in Indonesia. That place can get really nasty, even without a tsunami.

But, the UN has delivered some supplies. Let me illustrate an example: about two weeks after the tsunami (more than long enough for people to die of hunger or thirst), the UN finally got a few flights of relief supplies, and I think they were delivered by US planes. The UN promised not to squander any of the aid, even though 65% of donations to the UN are diverted to cover "administration costs", compared to less than 2% for the Red Cross. A picture in the Post, or some similar newspaper, showed UN workers standing next to a pile of boxed food about 6 feet tall. The day before, the pile was 12 feet tall. The UN workers left the boxes out in the rain, because god forbid UN employees work overtime or in such horrid conditions as rain, and more than half of the boxes rotted. Thus, those supplies had to be thrown away.

That's about as efficient as the UN can get.

By the way, http://diplomadic.blogspot.com/ provides some great information about the UN.