I would like to argue something pretty important to me.

[Barbarossa]

But yes, it is about water more than it's about land. For the governments involved (the nutters with the bombs probably don't get exactly what they are fighting for). The definition of what is their land is pretty fluid. What water they are entitled to is more concrete, though. All the water they need, perhaps. If I'm not mistaken Israel is, on directions from the UN, supposed to compensate Palestine for water lost, how far they are complying with this today, I'm not sure of, though.

Did you really just say....

...words to the effect of...

"their land is fluid and their water is concrete" ???

Excellent!!

[Rat Faced]

legally it was conquest. War-time rules and all that.

There is no legal Law of Conquest, this was something done in the past BEFORE countries started talking and being civilized and created International Laws.

If you followed that argument, the only countries in Europe are the UK, Russia and USA plus the ones that stayed neutral in the last war.

[tralalala]

@Rio: You don't seem to want to listen to anyone do you..

First off, the water in that aquafer is pollouted, and has been for a very long time (yes, by the Palestinians that live above it). So I don't think bad water will do them much good don't you?

And second: Once again, for maybe the tenth time - Israel was at war with 3 different countries, we managed to not only win the war, but also capture the land you are talking about - that is what war does, people take lands and lose lands.
An example - World War 1... (Versay agreements tell you anything?).
So, Israel wins a war, wins land, and cultivates parts of it. You can't give back ALL of the cultivated land 40 years later, that is ludicrouse.
That is why Israel is offering the southern part of the West Bank to seal the deal, and I don't see why that should matter.. the Aquafer is under both areas, both areas a deserts, and, ummm, the only difference is the peoplesthat live there.

l'm sick of listening to you Rafi, or whatever your name is, you talk nothing but bullshit Israeli propaganda. Where you get crap like that about the aquafer water is beyond me, l don't think you're intelligent enough to make that crap up, so someone is probably pumping it into you. l just hope this gets cleared up one way or the other so people like you can settle down and stay where you are.

Tje question is Rio, where do you get your crap from?

No one is forcing you into this thread mate...


and about your previouse post: Typical superiority? The way our countryis?
Go on then, what's your suggestion - what should we do instead of what is going on now?
Suggesting to give back "thier land" is going nowhere, give us a proper, full explained suggestion.


@SnnY:
Israel is giving millions of dollars yearly to encourage the growth of the Palestinians ability to get the water they don't have, and to help victims of thier own problems.
Yes, the aquafers are also in Israels land

Again - the land they will get will be sort of empty, but Israel will of course pay the cost of building basic machines for getting water, and building houses and co.

[Snee]

But yes, it is about water more than it's about land. For the governments involved (the nutters with the bombs probably don't get exactly what they are fighting for). The definition of what is their land is pretty fluid. What water they are entitled to is more concrete, though. All the water they need, perhaps. If I'm not mistaken Israel is, on directions from the UN, supposed to compensate Palestine for water lost, how far they are complying with this today, I'm not sure of, though.

Did you really just say....

...words to the effect of...

"their land is fluid and their water is concrete" ???

Excellent!!

Yep

@Rat: What I meant was that once the situation had stabilized after the war, the people who inhabited the place were the Israeli and that, since it was a war situation, there were no working laws in the transition period.

Had the french fled france, and the country been settled by Germans, and the Germans won the war. France had been Germany.


If there are no laws during one period, possession is nine tenths of the law, once the dust settles, and the winner sets the terms, it's how it has worked throughout history.

Not saying I like it, but you might as well call it conquest.

[GepperRankins]

Is this going anywhere?

I don't know. Is it?

You probably can look under your own feet and see stolen land.

i'm pretty certain he's a descendent of crooks in a stolen country anyway

[GepperRankins]

if land is taken in war, then isreal is at war with palastine. does this mean the terrorists aren't terrorists?

[RioDeLeo]

So if l steal your car and put new tyres on it, l can claim it as mine?

It's nothing like stealing a car.

First of all, as tralala says, legally it was conquest. War-time rules and all that.

As Rat Faced has pointed out, there is no legal right to confiscate or occupy land taken in a war.

3. Calls once more upon Israel, as the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention, to rescind its previous measures and to desist from taking any action which would result in changing the legal status and geographical nature and materially affecting the demographic composition of the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, and, in particular, not to transfer parts of its own civilian population into the occupied Arab territories;

Tje question is Rio, where do you get your crap from?

No one is forcing you into this thread mate...


and about your previouse post: Typical superiority? The way our countryis?
Go on then, what's your suggestion - what should we do instead of what is going on now?
Suggesting to give back "thier land" is going nowhere, give us a proper, full explained suggestion.

Easy, abide by United Nations resolutions, as you insist other countries do. Get back to the pre-1967 borders and vacate the land you illegally occupy. And if this is "going nowhere", as you suggest, it's because Israel is not prepared to do what is right. Thankfully most of the world is against you, it's just a pity more places aren't prepared to boycott the place.

[RioDeLeo]

Here you go Tralalal, a few things you can take notice of to help you understand why so many people are against your country for the way it treats the Palestinians and it's other neighbours. l wonder if we would now be waging a War on Terror if Israel had complied with UN resolutions from the beginning?


Resolution 106: condemns Israel for Gaza raid.

Resolution 111: condemns Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people.

Resolution 127: recommends Israel suspend its no-man's zone' in Jerusalem.

Resolution 162: urges Israel to comply with UN decisions.

Resolution 171: determines flagrant violations by Israel in its attack on Syria.

Resolution 228: censures Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control.

Resolution 237: urges Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.

Resolution 248: condemns Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.

Resolution 250: calls on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.

Resolution 251: deeply deplores Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250.

Resolution 252: declares invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital.

Resolution 256: condemns Israeli raids on Jordan as flagrant violation.

Resolution 259: deplores Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.

Resolution 262: condemns Israel for attack on Beirut airport.

Resolution 265: condemns Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan.

Resolution 267: censures Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem.

Resolution 270: condemns Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon.

Resolution 271: condemns Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem.

Resolution 279: demands withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 280: condemns Israeli's attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 285: demands immediate Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon.

Resolution 298: deplores Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem.

Resolution 313: demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 316: condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.

Resolution 317: deplores Israel's refusal to release.

Resolution 332: condemns Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.

Resolution 337: condemns Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty.

Resolution 347: condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon.

Resolution 425: calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 427: calls on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.

Resolution 444: deplores Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces.

Resolution 446: determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention

Resolution 450: calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.

Resolution 452: calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.

Resolution 465: deplores Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist its settlements program.

Resolution 467: strongly deplores Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.

Resolution 468: calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return.

Resolution 469: strongly deplores Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians.

Resolution 471: expresses deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Resolution 476: reiterates that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are null and void.

Resolution 478: censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its Basic Law.

Resolution 484: declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors.

Resolution 487: strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.

Resolution 497: decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights

is null and void and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.

Resolution 498: calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.

Resolution 501: calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.

Resolution 509: demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon.

Resolution 515: demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in.

Resolution 517: censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon.

Resolution 518: demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.

Resolution 520: condemns Israel's attack into West Beirut.

Resolution 573: condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.

Resolution 587: takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw.

Resolution 592: strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.

Resolution 605: strongly deplores Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.

Resolution 607: calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Resolution 608: deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians.

Resolution 636: deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.

Resolution 641: deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 672: condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram Al-Sharif/Temple Mount.

Resolution 673: deplores Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.

Resolution 681: deplores Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 694: deplores Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.

Resolution 726: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 799: strongly condemns Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

----------------------------------------------------------

Of course, you could just ignore what the rest of the world wants and act like God's chosen people.

[Snee]

It's nothing like stealing a car.

First of all, as tralala says, legally it was conquest. War-time rules and all that.

As Rat Faced has pointed out, there is no legal right to confiscate or occupy land taken in a war.

3. Calls once more upon Israel, as the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention, to rescind its previous measures and to desist from taking any action which would result in changing the legal status and geographical nature and materially affecting the demographic composition of the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, and, in particular, not to transfer parts of its own civilian population into the occupied Arab territories;

I already answered that in part.

Israel is only doing what other countries like the US are doing, ie: going by their own laws instead of UN's resolutions, when the war was over they lived there, after all. Also, the people that live there now aren't the same people that lived there in 1967, people have had time to live there and grow old since the area was taken, while many palestinians, whose land it is according to you, then, have never set foot on the same soil in their lives.

If we are going to start demanding that large populations be moved from areas that their ancestors stole from others, we'll have to evacuate the US, Australia, the north of Sweden and so on, depending on how far back in history you'd like to go.

And furthermore, palestinian terrorism, or freedom fighting if we'll go by your definition, is equally contradictory to the UN's wishes, and seeing as how PLO was/is a big player in Palestine's government and was responsible for terror attacks in the past and most likely condones and possibly has a stake in the occasional attack today, and presumably has a considerable backing from the people, the powers that be in both countries have issues with following the UN's recommendations.

[Busyman]

If we are going to start demanding that large populations be moved from areas that their ancestors stole from others, we'll have to evacuate the US, Australia, the north of Sweden and so on, depending on how far back in history you'd like to go.

All we can do now is make sure no new land is "stolen"....anywhere.