Israel & Palestine

[clocker]

Snny,

Your first graph is somewhat misleading as it shows Production not reserves.

[Snee]

Clocker: I tried to show how much oil the US imports, It's actually oil import per day, Iraq's reserves on the other hand are supposed to be on par with those of Saudi-Arabia, I mixed up my numbers earlier so I was trying to show what I was thinking about.

[ilw]

I don't think they went into Iraq for oil per se, though close links with whatever government comes to power is undoubtedly a benefit they considered. I think that quite a lot of people in power have wanted to get rid of Saddam for a long time. It was only after 9/11 that they finally managed to get the public support necessary to do it.

[billyfridge]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@11 September 2003 - 15:44
I'd like to hear your opinions on the situation in Palestine \ Israel.

But I'd also ask you not to hold back what you really feel.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to see a resolution to the conflict in Palestine.

I hold Israel and the United States to be mostly at fault for the situation as it stands.

I want Israel to immediately cease their terror campaign against innocent civilians.

I want Israel to withdraw back to pre 1967 borders, and take the settlers with them.

I want Hamas, and whoever else is doing it, to cease the suicide bombings.

I want the United States to withhold all support for Israel if they refuse to act now.



That should be enough to start.

Only the religeous fanatics can stop this conflict, they started it 'only they can stop it. When they learn, like the civilised world, to put religeon in its proper place way down on the important things to do list, they might, only might, get on with the job of living, but i'm not holding my breath. the world has been blighted for hundreds, no, thousands of years, with this religeon crap, will we never learn?

[billyfridge]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@12 September 2003 - 13:26

I'd say, if U.S. "departed" from the area, all these things would come naturally...

How would these things come about naturally?

I don't believe it would come about naturally if the US left.

I don't believe it would lead to war either.

I still say the key to peace is Israel, they hold the cards, it's time to deal them out.

The question is, does the United States have the courage to tell Israel they will cut all financial ties if they don't comply with United Nation's resolutions.

Dream on|||

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by ilw@12 September 2003 - 19:06
I don't think they went into Iraq for oil per se, though close links with whatever government comes to power is undoubtedly a benefit they considered. I think that quite a lot of people in power have wanted to get rid of Saddam for a long time. It was only after 9/11 that they finally managed to get the public support necessary to do it.

This would be much easier to believe, if Rumsfeld hadnt been pushing to invade Iraq for the Oil Reserves since the mid '90s.....openly

In fact he only stopped AFTER 9/11, when they decided there was a spin they could use to get public support.... ie Take advantage of the situation created.

[ilw]

I don't really see why oil is an urgent thing at the moment though, Saudi Arabias's reserves are pretty substantial. I'm sure another country producing large amounts would lower the price but OPEC would surely try and minimise the effect of this.
Btw Donald Rumsfeld is IMO much more of an arse even than Bush.

[Rat Faced]

The strikes in Venezuela didnt help.

And its the Reserves that are important......those nodding donkey pumps all over the USA are not a good sign, these appear only when you have to force the oil out of the ground, as most has been removed already.

To put into context:

Iraq has the 2nd largest reserves...ie actual oil in the ground,,,in the world.

Thats only enough oil...if these were the only fields, to last the world 4 years.


New Oil fields are found every year, however at only 10% of what is needed to replace spent fields.


A Documentary recently shown on UK TV had various "experts" from Government and various Oil Companies.....

They varied in their opinion of how much oil is left, obviously...however the most optimistic opinion given (Shell oil Company) was 15 years.

Add into all this, that North America uses 50% of all Oil produced (mostly USA)......and that is scary shit for any Government.

The analysts are already calling Iraq the "1st of the Oil Wars".....



The bottom line is that the Oil Companies have, for years, been buying the patents of inventions that would damage their industry....not so much more economical engines (although this did happen in the past....engines that could run 80mpg were developed in the 50's/60's), but engines that dont use Petrol/Gasoline.

They cant fight the Power Industry (same side?) so Electric/Hybrid cars get developed. Gas is also related, so they play with Hydrogen etc....

.....but what happened to the family saloon that ran 10,000 miles a year on the equivalent of a Soccer Field of Rape Seed, which i saw on display about 10 years ago?

The technical specifications showed less wear on the engine, hense less maintainance..OK, the Top speed was reduced by 20pmh or so....but it could still hit 100mph (30mph more than the legal limit in UK, and more than some smaller cars on sale)

I heard some people in Wales are running their cars on some sort of Spirit, and are getting arrested for avoiding Taxes...what kind of craziness is that? They pay a lot of tax on spirits.....just not as much as they would for petrol.



EDIT:

Appologise for being off-topic... :'(

[ilw]

http://jrobb.mindplex.org/stories/2002/12/...3OilAndWar.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/677610.stm
http://www.opec.org/

I disagree with your figures RF according to OPEC we have 80 years of oil left (though that figure is a few years old and is almost sure to be optimistic) and other estimates I've seen seem to be in the 40 - 80 range. Iraq's proven oil (NB likely reserves are considerably larger) could only provide oil for 4 years as you say however, saudi arabia has 2x as much and the next 4 countries after Iraq are not so far behind in terms of reserves :
Saudi Arabia: 261,750
Iraq: 112,500
United Arab Emirates: 97,800
Kuwait: 96,500
Iran: 89,700
Venezuela: 77,685

America is estimated to use about 25 - 30% of World oil. The interesting thing that the first link pointed out is that American reserves are running out rapidly and America will be more dependent than ever on the Middle East. (Though America has massive stores of barrels of crude).

I saw that thing in wales as well that was people mixing cooking oil and i think methane. Supermarkets for miles around were sold out of oil for weeks until they realised what was going on. Apparently you still have to pay duty on fuel (though its still cheaper than petrol/diesel)

[Rat Faced]

As i said, I havent researched....just watched that Documentary.

However Shell Oil was the most Optimistic @ 15 years....of course that doesnt mean the program didnt pick and choose what was included


I also said North America used 50%.........this includes Canada and Mexico...just that USA used most of this %....your figures may well be the USA's (America's) percentage. I think that, in part, North Americans are unfairly critised....they are large countries, and people NEED cars in the towns, country...

The critisism of the "Gas Guzzlers" i feel is justified, but smaller cars are becoming more common, even in USA. I have as much Criticism of some ponce in a Porche/Jaguar/Land Rover in Europe as i do for someone in a Chevy/Cadalac/un needed Pickup Truck in USA (as examples)


I think that 40-80 years is way over the top.......if it was this much, i doubt that there would be a lot of pressure to secure what there is....and there is a LOT of pressure.



What you wrote about Wales rang a bell, I couldnt remember the details....thanks

Dont suppose you could come back with the mixture they used for me?