Humanitarian Wars?

[Autumn Fox]

Originally posted by Biggles@17 June 2004 - 00:26
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Secondly, it helped if the Pope declared that the war was "just" and therefore the will of God.
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Nothing like heretic statments. . As longboneslinger said:

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

(It's about the popes and them kings, not you). And now the church wants to that christianity is to be mentioned in the EU constitution as a perfect thing - without the sinful things that happend due to them. And the worst thing is that, that many people don't want to know about it and when you mention many people here (Poland) can even go balistic. I hate religion leaders. Goverments should have such power, not institutions that can go even paramilitary.

[longboneslinger]

You have a point, Autumn. The Church (Whichever Church you care to mention) has done some horrible things. The Salem Witch Hunts, the Spanish Inquisition's, and the Crusades spring to mind. The Spanish Garduna are good expamles of Church power run amock. Terrorists are the extreme example.

On the other hand, the Church has also done tremendous good. Helping the poor, negotiating treaties, helping lost souls find God. Holy wars are horrors beyond imagining. Once a person beleives he/she is on a mission from God they can become blind to all but their own percieved 'truths'. It becomes easy to rationalize anything. Killing children, for example. Nits make lice, they'll just grow up to be sinners, idolators, etc. That they do evil is impossible, to them, because they are on a mission from God. With each murder or killing the next becomes easier. Wars are much the same. Once you've loosed the Dogs of War, they can become hard to muzzle. It can become easy. Especially now that some look at not how many lives can be spared, but how many are expendable, what are 'acceptable losses'.

To me, no one is 'expendable'. This reduces human lives to mere numbers. When we become nothing but numbers, we are less than human. Our lives become cheap. 1 life lost is to many. To decide someone is 'expendable' is trespassing on the divine. Who gives you, me, or anyone else the right to decide that someone else is 'expendable'. That power is, and should, be reserved by God alone.

[Autumn Fox]

Originally posted by longboneslinger@18 June 2004 - 00:03
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On the other hand, the Church has also done tremendous good. Helping the poor, negotiating treaties, helping lost souls find God. Holy wars are horrors beyond imagining. Once a person beleives he/she is on a mission from God they can become blind to all but their own percieved 'truths'. It becomes easy to rationalize anything. Killing children, for example. Nits make lice, they'll just grow up to be sinners, idolators, etc. That they do evil is impossible, to them, because they are on a mission from God. With each murder or killing the next becomes easier. Wars are much the same. Once you've loosed the Dogs of War, they can become hard to muzzle. It can become easy. Especially now that some look at not how many lives can be spared, but how many are expendable, what are 'acceptable losses'.
(...)
Who gives you, me, or anyone else the right to decide that someone else is 'expendable'. That power is, and should, be reserved by God alone.

Ad.#1

I have never said diffrently and i do agree that the church has made some magnificent things. But thinking is such way (only about thoes good things) can make anyone a holy person. (Columbus, Einstein, Anan, Pol Pot, Jack the Ripper)

Ad.#2

I'm speeking from a position of an ateist thus i have no such limitations. What i do is rationalize and argument my statments and if i find meself wrong i correct it. For me, in this matter, there aren't any unquestionable truths nor falses.

And my list is based on this. For a nation or even the planet to survive is to have organised and efficient structure capable of expantion.

[Alex H]

Originally posted by longboneslinger@16 June 2004 - 02:14
A good dictatorship is news to me.

The term "benevelant despot" would be an an apt description.

Can't actually think of any off the top of my head...

[longboneslinger]

I'm speeking from a position of an ateist thus i have no such limitations.

I don't think of 'religion' as a limitation. The teachings, not the church. Caring for and loving others is a laudable dream. One thing most religions have in common is their view on the sanctity of life. One of the worlds ills is that we place far to little a value on that which has the highest value: human life.
The loss of life due to war is horrible. Both to combatants and non-combatants alike. Not to mention the loss of resources, property and infrastructures.

I have never said diffrently and i do agree that the church has made some magnificent things. But thinking is such way (only about thoes good things) can make anyone a holy person. (Columbus, Einstein, Anan, Pol Pot, Jack the Ripper)

NOt true. Thinking about something doesn't make one holy. One must live a holy life to earn that distinction. Mother Teresa comes to mind. Sigh. Now company is here , so I'll try to finish this train of thought later..........

Later taters,
BoNe