*official Matrix Chat* Reloaded & Revolution Chat
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
OMG! This is was hella solid... and talk about an ending, goodness.... anyhow, a few rules on this thread.
a) no requests for links, hashes or files, this is to only talk storyline, and the movie
B) be nice to everyone!
c) there are spoilers, *WARNING* stay out if you dont want to hear about them....
Okay, now heres my thoughts.
1. The ending first and foremost. Who was that guy? Across the way from neo? "The only survivor of the attack on the outposts lines of zion"? Well, I will tell you what I think... Remember when smith, ran into the two guys in the matrix, seemingly for no reason, and first replicated himself... what did he do? Took the hard line out... to the REAL world... what did that guy have... a goatee... what did the guy on the table have... a goatee... both brunettes also... So, that seemingly insignificant phone call, was disaster... that was smith, or his human counterpart. THis is of course brings a ton of questions, how could smith survive outside of the matrix, being only a program/virus, etc... well maybe, remember what morpheus told neo, you body believes what your brain feels/does in the matrix... maybe smith was able to override that guys brainwaves, etc... putting his persona in taht human body... hmmmmm opinions? Also remember, smith says parts of their code swwapped and copied on to each other....
2. How the hell did neo sense the machines, and seemingly stop them at the end, in the "real world"? Is that real world they are apparently in at that time, maybe just another part of the matrix... has neo found some way, via the seemingly destruction of smith, and the change of code, to somehow control/interfere with the machines in the real world? Also... in a related note... how does neo sense the agents comming at the beggining? Also suggested that maybe he is a program, of sorts... the anomaly in the matrix... much like pi is in mathematics...
3. Is all of zion dead, or whats the deal? did they say that only that one body one the ship, survived? obviously some people survive, people somewhere, cuz in the revolutions trailer, we see people operating mechs, etc... and a shot of zion if i am not mistaken... and them asking, "are we too late"... seemingly refering to zion...
4. What is smiths ultimate goal? to conquer the matrix, take it all over? if so, why aid in the destruction of zion. The seeming traitor who let the emp off early, im assuming was him, hence he was the only survivor somehow, and how did that body, smith or not, survive... my theory, because that body registered as dead within the matrix, when he took it over... hence the machines, wouldnt account for his death, when smith seemingly overwrites his conscious...
5. Now when that building blew up, wasnt the matrix as it was, seemingly destroyed? wasnt that the whole network, hardware which ran it, etc? So how does it still exist, does it? obviously it does, cuz we see smith and neo fight in it, in the revolutions trailer... explanations?
well, tahts my thoughts for now, lets get some comments up in here! debate, add to, and tell me what u cats think.
*ps... to the mods, and everyone bitching about more reloaded threads... this has nothing to do with any of the others... as it is by no means related to files, torrents, or where to get it, or any of that other bullshit we have had to put up with for two months... so please leave this alone...we deserve the right to have a real chat about the movies, minus all the other bullshit*
Posted by: Jibbler
Wow, I can't even put into words everything I'm thinking. I'm going to see it again this weekend, so that I can follow the details more closely. I'll address the only question I feel I'm capable of answering at this hour, and that is about Neo, and the machines.
The architect left many things to be pondered, and Neo's choice was to save the girl, and not humanity. Could this be because Neo is not a human, but in fact a machine? Possibly some sort of hybrid?
Oh yeah, and the mechs look awesome in the trailer for Revolutions. Too bad we had to sit thru 15 minutes of credits for a 45 second trailer.
I also think there is more to the keyman than meets the eye. Can't wait to see it again, so I can get my fix. B)
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Part man, part machine... interesting... maybe, maybe only since the sorta merger with him and smith, when they swapped code?
A few more things ive picked up from the trailer...
oracles body guard, or what ever he was, the asian guy, (was originaly set to be played by jet li btw), is still alive,
The long haired crazy guy... also appears in the revolutions trailer... the one who said something about 12, or was it 24 hours... then end of zion, zion falling or something... what is his role...
btw... i have heard a rumor, which prolly is total bs... so take no stock in it... but that trinity may be agent... what, how, etc... no clue, so take no stock in it, as its seemingly just that, a rumor...
Posted by: be_man31
ahh shit there was a trailer after the credits?!! :angry: I can't sit that long through the credits. Oh man when the architect was babbling on, I was like... WTF is this guy babbling about? :blink: and schmiggy your right on the money, that was smith in that guys body and it was the guy that sabbotaged the EMP weapon. and your question is good too, how did smith survive out of the matrix? but even a better question you should ask is why did smith cut his hand and then proceed to shake neos hand? to infect him perhaps? and last but not least, why did the machines continue to dig even after destroying "ZION"? hmmm intresting. and another good question is...how did neo control those squigglies at the end? maybe this is a box inside of a box inside of a box sorta thing with the matrix. but one things for certain! I cant wait to see revelations!!! :D :D
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by be_man31@15 May 2003 - 01:13
but even a better question you should ask is why did smith cut his hand and then proceed to shake neos hand? to infect him perhaps?
OMG!
was that guy, who shook his hand... the same guy smith infected? holy shit... i gotta finish the download NOW! i didnt even think of that, that the guy with the knife, was the same one smith infected...... but it seemingly makes so much more sense, cuz if that wasnt that "body", the body from the infection, and phone call, and the body at the end... what else does it fit into, and the answer is really nothing... so that makes perfect sense....
my first thoughts were that guy was gonna try to stab him, but that makes more sense now that u mention it... but infect him with what... wouldnt his virus be limited to the matrix? maybe neo is part machine... and he knew that neo would somehow replicate the blood/virus, in the real world... hence his control over the machines at the end, because he is part machine... i dunno...
and the architect... i want to listen to that speech many more times... it was dull at times, but i feel there was some major significance to it all, taht maybe i didnt pick up on the first time....
wow, that has me thinking even more now, damn movie!
Posted by: netblade83
and what was with that whole kiss neo had with that one woman...(cant remember her name offhand..).. it seemed like there was more to it than meets the eye, but i cant put a finger on it...
one of the biggest things i thought was.. ok, ive watched the 94 Meg trailer, and almost all of it was from the first half hour!
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
another question: When The Oracle leaves, Smith and The Smiths show up in the same space just seconds after her exit. Why? Is fighting The Smiths a part of what Neo needs to do to get to the next part of his journey? Seraph seems to almost clear The Oracle out of the space in anticipation of Smith’s arrival. Yet, Smith is no longer an agent and she should have seen him coming before Seraph, no? So whats this mean for the oracle, is she real, good bad, i dunno..
Merovingian (the guy from the resturant, who kept the key maker)introduces the idea of cause and effect as the driving force of society, machine and human, above and beyond the “illusion” of control. But even as a program, The Merovingian still says that we are all animals. Curious. Another indicator that The Merovingian was once The One is that he knows the role of The Keymaster, who he keeps locked up in a room without a keyed door. Interesting concepts here...
a thread at aint it cool news, talking about similiar ideas... (http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/tb_display.cgi?id=15207#626271), i have taken a few of my questions from there...
ya, really, i did enjoy the fact that most of trailer is from early in the flick
and about the kiss... story on Persephone, (her name, not sure spelling), is that supposedly with a kiss, or soemthing, she can read all your thoughts, yours fears, etc, and tell you things, if she choses, that you may not want to hear, this comming from a interview with bellaucci, explaining her character...
BTW... this was taken from harrys review at aint it cool news... apparently we misunderstood something, and zion didnt fall.... hafta watch it again i guess, to catch it fully
BTW – I want to correct something from my first review. ZION isn’t destroyed in MATRIX RELOADED. That was a point of confusion for me, sorry if this caused you any problems, admittedly I guess my mind was still on the event that had immediately preceded that conversation.
Posted by: XSpikeX
They only lost the first counter attack at their main lines. The didn't lose the city yet.
Posted by: Krisman
I'm not going to read all these other posts cause I just got back from Reloaded and am a little tired. Still going to watch whats left of adult swim on cartoon network though.
Anyway I'd just like to bitch about the employees at the movies 8 where I live. The damned cleaning lady kept turning on the lights during the credits. <_< Ended up having to watch the trailer in the light instead of dark.
Also that trailer saved me from a speeding ticket. When heading home I saw someone else who had been there and left right when the movie ended pulled over on the side of the road by a cop. Thankyou trailer. :P
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
so wake ur ass up, and get back in here when u can, lol... i wanna figure some of this shit out...
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
okay, going to see it again, bbl. Hopefully I will have even more to discuss when i get back!
Posted by: sk8punk151
Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@15 May 2003 - 18:52
okay, going to see it again, bbl. Hopefully I will have even more to discuss when i get back!
Where do you live? How can you just go?! Around here you have to reserve your tix a day in advance if your lucky.. :huh:
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
where i live, we are over saturated with theater screens. We probably like, lets see, 6, 24, 20, 18, 12, about 80 screens, within 35 mins around me, very handy....
Posted by: Stonecoldfreak1
cant w8 to see how much money this movie ranks in
Posted by: XSpikeX
My town is so small you can just go see it. Except for probably tonight since it's just opening and last night when I saw it it was packed. But those are special occasions. Come friday/saturday you can probably just go and see it. Anyways, I found out why Jet Li didn't play the Oracles bodyguard. From what I hear they were willing to pay him 3 Million for the couple minute parts but he wanted 18 million. Meh, movie stars nowadays ;)
Posted by: Wolfmight
The matrix is comming out tommarow Friday 16 2003, so did yall like downloadz it?
n e full apect screener copies?
Posted by: XSpikeX
It's out everywhere around here today (the 15th). I saw an advanced screening yesterday....
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by Wolfmight@15 May 2003 - 17:09
The matrix is comming out tommarow Friday 16 2003, so did yall like downloadz it?
n e full apect screener copies?
wolf, didnt read my first post, keep file questions out this... theres tons of other threads for that shit... this is ment for movie chat, and speculation, plot points, etc...
so watch it, and come back in and lets talk theories...
Posted by: Jibbler
Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@15 May 2003 - 16:55
where i live, we are over saturated with theater screens. We probably like, lets see, 6, 24, 20, 18, 12, about 80 screens, within 35 mins around me, very handy....
I have this problem too. Lots of theaters near me.
So we were sitting at the Matrix movie last night, an hour before it started. The Regal Entertainment guys came into the theater to try to get us to donate a $1 for some stupid charity. Didn't take long before the theater was chanting "bring back the Jimmy Fund!" It was out of control last night. People were dressed up in black, it seemed like Halloween in there. B)
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Comeon Jibby! Lets discuss this shit, give your opinions, i saw it again... and, hell, way too much to comprehend still, what u think of those thoughts, etc.
Posted by: 4play
The action scenes in this film were fantastic even with the shity copy.
But my god did they go on about technical shit for too long.
casueality and effects and lip stick on his bell end i just got lost.
I tuned out when the oracle started speaking i could not understand what she was going on about.
Still very interesting twist with the architect. That had me guessing was he a machine or human. was neo and most important was the oracle since he said she worked out the problem of human's not being perfect. how would a machine do this since all machines are based on logic.
And agent smith getting out of the matrix was a good twist. somehow he is controlling that goatee guy but to what ends.
cant wait for revolutions is it out the same time as the return of the king?
Posted by: XSpikeX
Originally posted by 4play@16 May 2003 - 00:40
The action scenes in this film were fantastic even with the shity copy.
But my god did they go on about technical shit for too long.
casueality and effects and lip stick on his bell end i just got lost.
I tuned out when the oracle started speaking i could not understand what she was going on about.
Still very interesting twist with the architect. That had me guessing was he a machine or human. was neo and most important was the oracle since he said she worked out the problem of human's not being perfect. how would a machine do this since all machines are based on logic.
And agent smith getting out of the matrix was a good twist. somehow he is controlling that goatee guy but to what ends.
cant wait for revolutions is it out the same time as the return of the king?
It's a lot more enjoyable if you can figure out the technicle stuff B) Once you watch it a couple more times you'll probably get it.
Posted by: FlamingYob
Well, I just finished watching it, it's now 2am and I'm left scratching my head.
Overall I think it was an improvement on the first, the action scenes were off the hook, the fight scenes were just stunning, my favourites scenes was the car chase and the bit where Neo fucks about 200 Smiths after he speaks to the Oracle.
I was also thinking to myself, “How the fuck did Neo do that in the real world?” it seemed very strange to me.
I’m glad I watched it, even though the quality wasn’t amazing, it was still good, and it beats waiting till the 23rd to see it, but I will for sure be there on the 23rd to see it on the big screen.
Well, I’m tired and have a headache so I’m going to shut up now, but before I hit reply I must say I thought the ending was rather disappointing, yeah, it leaves you wanting more but I really don’t want to have to wait for ages to find out what happens.
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by 4play@15 May 2003 - 19:40
cant wait for revolutions is it out the same time as the return of the king?
Nope... matrix comes out the 4th of november i think, the first week for sure... and ROTK comes out late november... like the rest of the triliogy has.
Posted by: 4play
this film really is gonna have a geeky following. I am doing a degree course in computing and i still get lost.
Im gonna watch it a few times more and see if i can figure it all out.
another thing that is bugging me is why the hell they needed to make some woman cum in her pants after eating chocolate should i have given my girlfriend more chocolate or what.
That guy in the restaurant had to be an older "the one". his wife? commented about how neo reminded her of him. and thinking that he has some skill would imply he also has these skills.
gonna watch it again when im sober and rested see if i can figure it out.
Posted by: XSpikeX
I'm a geek so I got it pretty much first time ;o)
And he's no an older "the one", he's a program. Not real. So are his minions which include vampires and british ghosts!
Posted by: 4play
I'm a geek so I got it pretty much first time ;o)
And he's no an older "the one", he's a program. Not real. So are his minions which include vampires and british ghosts!
so he could be the one as well since there is speculation over neo being part human part machine.
i do not really agree with this one since the oracle set it all up to get rid of abnormalities in the matrix which would mean he has to human.
Posted by: Jibbler
Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@15 May 2003 - 01:24
2. How the hell did neo sense the machines, and seemingly stop them at the end, in the "real world"? Is that real world they are apparently in at that time, maybe just another part of the matrix... has neo found some way, via the seemingly destruction of smith, and the change of code, to somehow control/interfere with the machines in the real world? Also... in a related note... how does neo sense the agents comming at the beggining? Also suggested that maybe he is a program, of sorts... the anomaly in the matrix... much like pi is in mathematics...
I'm starting to think Neo is some sort of half breed, maybe part machine. I think the Matrix is evolving and its getting smarter. The Matrix is based on AI, and we learned that 6 times, the matrix has been opened. There has been some discussion lately about the PI theory, 3.14. Damn I wish I could remember the website where they were talking about this. There was a few different theorys on this set of numbers, and how they might relate to the film.
I'll keep looking, and post when I find it. B)
Posted by: FlamingYob
It's 3am and I'm still up, my PC upgrades should be here about 10am so I'll just wait up, anyway..
I was thinking about those ghost guys, couldn't Neo do that? And do you think we'll see him doing it in the next movie?
Posted by: XSpikeX
Originally posted by FlamingYob@16 May 2003 - 02:08
It's 3am and I'm still up, my PC upgrades should be here about 10am so I'll just wait up, anyway..
I was thinking about those ghost guys, couldn't Neo do that? And do you think we'll see him doing it in the next movie?
Neo can't go through walls, no. He can bend most rules but he's "only human".
Posted by: neevakee
Well i just saw it and all i have to say is damn. I think that it was awsome i could have lived without the first 30 minutes but that was me. I think neo is as they so put it an annomiley, but i think when the archeticets said he was diffrent becaused he loves trinity. They proably intend to show they love can strech any bounds and anything is possible if you love someone. This plot seems losely based around starwars. That tough of finding who you are and facing the difficulties that come with the powers. Anyway... the animatrix really did help while watching the film. Alos now i see why the movies are being released less then 6 months apart.
Posted by: FlamingYob
That seems a little stupid to me, he can bend a huge rule like gravity but he can't go threw walls. O well, he's still cool, him and Morpheus seemed to get a "push"(wrestling term) they both came off alot "harder" then in the first one.
Posted by: XSpikeX
He doesn't levitate. You don't seem him just sitting there in midair. When he flies he's pushing the limits. And if they let Neo go through walls I would just say that its going crap. Neo is powerful and I love the movies so far, but give him a little more and you got yourself a boring god.
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by XSpikeX@15 May 2003 - 20:16
I'm a geek so I got it pretty much first time ;o)
And he's no an older "the one", he's a program. Not real. So are his minions which include vampires and british ghosts!
There are alot of rumors, that merovidian, or what ever his name was... the guy from the restaraunt, that he was a previous version of the one... listen to the talk/dialouge closely, it really seems a possibility...
and I am leaning toward neo being sort of hybrid... part machine/part human... the symbol of the symbiosis the chairman guy talked about... and that is how he can end the war... by bringing harmoney between the two?
Posted by: sred2003
finally saw the movie tonight. _AWESOME_
these theories all seem to be possibilities. agent smith did
cut himself and then shake neos hand but how would that have infected him?
neo wasn't bleeding there. BUT he did cut his hand in the same place when
he blocked that ax later in the movie. maybe allowing the virus to infect him if it could have survived
that long.
and I am leaning toward neo being sort of hybrid... part machine/part human... the symbol of the symbiosis the chairman guy talked about... and that is how he can end the war... by bringing Harmony between the two?
this makes sense because if you remember what neo said at the end of the first
matrix it seems he is telling the whoever is on the phone that he will wake up
the world and tell them what the matrix is. he doesn't say he will destroy all
the machines, but that they have a choice what to do when he is done
Neo, The One: I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you, a world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries, a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.
Posted by: opivy
I just saw the movie and I loved it but I am confused as hell now. As someone else said it seemed like star wars kinda like when they ran out of the ship i was half expecting them to pull out a litesabre or something but anyways on the trailor when neo is fighting the agent morpheus sais he is fighting for us? Who is fighting for us? He wouldnt say that about neo because that is rather obvious or did i just miss something its really late.
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Opivy, i think the "he is fighting for us" thing, is supposed to install finnallity... like, this is it... the end, the last battle... if he cant beat him... maybe smith is able to replicate everyone in the matrix, take it over, something... and that if neo doesnt beat him, its done... so morpheus is saying... hes fighting for our lives, in essence.
sred: Ya, i didnt think of that, the axe blade... and neo bleeding... hand too, just like smith, a connection?
Posted by: vash444
Originally posted by sred2003@16 May 2003 - 06:52
these theories all seem to be possibilities. agent smith did
cut himself and then shake neos hand but how would that have infected him?
neo wasn't bleeding there. BUT he did cut his hand in the same place when
he blocked that ax later in the movie. maybe allowing the virus to infect him if it could have survived
that long.
I think that when Smith cut his hand, the blood would act like that silvery goo stuff that turns people in Smiths, so that if he shook hands with Neo, Neo would become another Smith.
Also, I think Neo is really "The One", since he used some of his powers to stop the Sentinels in the real world.
Still very interesting twist with the architect. That had me guessing was he a machine or human. was neo and most important was the oracle since he said she worked out the problem of human's not being perfect. how would a machine do this since all machines are based on logic.
I believe that the Architect is a machine, because he said something about the Matrix being a failure because it was created by a perfect mind, and not a lesser one like a humans.
5. Now when that building blew up, wasnt the matrix as it was, seemingly destroyed? wasnt that the whole network, hardware which ran it, etc? So how does it still exist, does it? obviously it does, cuz we see smith and neo fight in it, in the revolutions trailer... explanations?
Alright, I think that the white door that led to the Architect wasn't connected to the building, it was like the door Seraph led Neo through to the Oracle right? So, as it is not connected to the building, it isn't in the Matrix so it wasn't destroyed.
Posted by: Razz
Also, I think Neo is really "The One", since he used some of his powers to stop the Sentinels in the real world.
THE REAL WORLD being the obvious statement what if the world that neo thought was the real world was actually still the matrix e.g. a matrix within a matrix well it would be an interersting twist,
wot u guys reckon???
after all the architect did say that the matrix only worked if ppl (even if only subconciously) had a choice so to make it work they could simply stick a matrix within a matrix therefore ppl would have a choice and they would have no loss of "crops" so i reckon that if Neo figures this out he may be able to wake himself up from the second matrix..... just an idea really
also he could have controlled the sentinels because he has had access to the mainframe and therefore a part of himself may have imprinted on it remember he is the first one not to have gone thru that door :)
Posted by: kagey
ok the guy in the restaurant isn't another 'one' since he said 'i have survived 5 other neo's, and ill survive you' to neo.
when neo was talking to the old council guy the old guy hinted that all the machines are connected in a way. this was forshadowing neos powers in the realworld. so i thought that was pretty cool.
the dude in the real world that had the blood on his hand cut his hand with the knife to get blood on the knife so when he stabbed neo the blood would go into him, i dont think the handshake is significant at all.
my friend and i were discussing that perhaps some of the people on the concil are past 'ones' since they wanted neo (and seemed to know that it was right) to be the savior and go into the mainframe. its a possiblity.
Posted by: kagey
oh yeah and that gay ass rave shat and sex scene at the start was a potential movie ruiner, but the storyline a the end saved it. i mean it just turned into this grotuitous rave and they kept showing it for way way too long, same with the sex scene, its ok that they had sex, but they just stretched it out way too long. plus why were they so happy to have sex in zion, they could of did it everyday on the ship....
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by kagey@16 May 2003 - 10:12
ok the guy in the restaurant isn't another 'one' since he said 'i have survived 5 other neo's, and ill survive you' to neo.
I dont think thats for certain... why would he come out and say that? That would make no sense... he may be cocky, but it would be irrelevant for him to say that... he hinted enough, and that was the point... im not saying he is... but i dont think thats a good enough reason to rule him out.
as far as the rave scene... I dont know about you guys, but that is not a rave... if you have been to a rave, you would know this... so they had a big party, and celebration, and danced... i didnt see any frickin glow sticks, drugs, djs, crazy outfits, etc... it wasnt a rave, it was a celebration of life, and i think people take it out of context. It was to show you, even in their hour of desperation... with seemingly no bright spot... save for neo.. these people were so happy with life, and their freedom, they were going to celebrate it, instead of mourn their future... maybe it went on a bit long... but i think it was integral to show the love of the people for zion, and where they stand, and their relationship with their fellow people who have been freed. Otherwise... say zion is lost at the end of the movie, or in the next... you might think, wtf, who cares... wow... so they dont have a place to be... but that scene helps to generate more care for zion, and the people, etc...
as far as the sex... maybe they cant do it everyday on the ship... maybe theirs some rule, etc... tell me this... your out with your girl friend on a road trip, away from home, and u stay say in your van the whole trip, ya u can have sex, great... but how much better is it going to be, when you back at your home, safe secure, more room, better conditions, not our traveling around, etc... much nicer isnt it?
if i had a choice... sex in my car her car, which is fun and dandy at times, or sex at home, in one our beds... its a no brainer... and the point of dragging it out... once again, to help show how closse they are, and give more reason for neos choice at the end of the film
Posted by: sred2003
well there is some sort of connection between agent smith and neo
that is a fact. smith even says some things about it when they first meet
in reloaded. when neo dove/hacked into smiths body and destroyed him
some type of merging or change to BOTH of there codes was made.
which seems to have something to do with neos new powers in reloaded.
one of which is he can sense when the machines are near. he didn't have
that ability in the first movie. this will obviously be explained in revolutions
and we have to wait 6 months for that. better than waiting 4 years ;)
Posted by: thegroggman
My 2 cents. I think that the 'real world' included Zion, is just another Matrix that the architect designed to control that .1% of the population who are anomalies. Its a failsafe, thats why Neo can control the machines in that world too. Remember when Neo says that something is different and how he can sense the machines maybe that was hime realizing that they were inside another Matrix. And quite possibly what they saw as him falling into a comma was actually him waking up once again. It would also explain how Agent Smith being a virus could exist in the Zion world. Then again who knows. Just a thought though. B)
Edit: Whoops, didnt notice that Razz had just said the same thing. Sorry bout that. :unsure:
Posted by: ImpactPlayer
saw the movie last night and thought it was totally amazing.
i have a few questions though and was wondering if you guys could help clear this up.
has zion been destroyed in the past? my friend says zion has been destroyed 5 times, i say its the matrix that was destroyed 5 times.
when neo had to make the choice, to end everything or to choose one person to rebuild zion, he was the first one to choose to destroy everything right?
what do you think the french guy at the restaurant meant when he said that he has survived the 5 previous "ones"? and what exactly is his role? how powerful is he?
do you think the twins survived?
im mainly just confused on the ending with what the architect said about zion and the ending of the matrix.
Posted by: thegroggman
Originally posted by ImpactPlayer@16 May 2003 - 21:44
saw the movie last night and thought it was totally amazing.
i have a few questions though and was wondering if you guys could help clear this up.
has zion been destroyed in the past? my friend says zion has been destroyed 5 times, i say its the matrix that was destroyed 5 times.
when neo had to make the choice, to end everything or to choose one person to rebuild zion, he was the first one to choose to destroy everything right?
what do you think the french guy at the restaurant meant when he said that he has survived the 5 previous "ones"? and what exactly is his role? how powerful is he?
do you think the twins survived?
im mainly just confused on the ending with what the architect said about zion and the ending of the matrix.
Well according to what the Architect said, Zion has been destroyed five times. But there have also been multiple incarnations of the Matrix. And also according to the Architect, every 'One' prior to Neo chose to rebuild Zion. Not quite sure what the French guy meant, some say that he is just another old program, but wouldnt it be interesting if at one point he was a One? His wife (the stunning Monica Belucci) did hint at this when she told Neo that he reminded her of her husband. And yeah Im pretty sure the twins survived, when they were blasted into the air, at the last second the phased into their Ghost forms, so Im pretty sure we havent heard the last of them.
Posted by: Razz
Originally posted by thegroggman@16 May 2003 - 20:53
My 2 cents. I think that the 'real world' included Zion, is just another Matrix that the architect designed to control that .1% of the population who are anomalies. Its a failsafe, thats why Neo can control the machines in that world too. Remember when Neo says that something is different and how he can sense the machines maybe that was hime realizing that they were inside another Matrix. And quite possibly what they saw as him falling into a comma was actually him waking up once again. It would also explain how Agent Smith being a virus could exist in the Zion world. Then again who knows. Just a thought though. B)
i believe i just said that :), like in 13th floor
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
ImpactPlayer: (nice name btw, reference to the ECW click by chance?) Ill try to assist you here.
1. Yes, the architect says this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it, and that they have become extremely proficient at it... so 5 times before, in the matrixs past, the group of rebels has sprung up, because the probability of people accepting the "program"/matrix is only 99%... but that it gets worse, and inevitably will lead to destruction.
2. Yes, by chosing to save trinity, he chose to supposedly forsake zion, all the people in the matrix, and everyone in existance.... bringing about all of their doom, and that the machines would be willing to live with that form of survival on their part, being limited, because they would find some way to go on.
3. At first I thought maybe the french guy was one of the previous ones, but listening to the architect for a third time, he says all the previous one made the choice to return to "the source" ie the core of the matrix, and restart zion... so i would think, they would decompile their code, because it says the matrix takes the anomalies code, and uses it for the next matrix build... so i dont think he is the one now, but I think in a way, hes sorta like agent smith, that he has been freed from the matrix, which he had a previous role, and he just chosen to simply live his life as he pleases... where as smith seems to want utter control, and replication of the matrix...
4. The twins, i dunno. If u watch the explosion, they "ghost" out after it happens, whether to save themselves like they had from previous attacks, or one final time, as they died, im not sure.
as far the ending of the matrix, according the architect, the matrix will seemingly die, or be done with, at some point in the next movie, because neo chose to not restart it so to speak, and let the program digest his anommaly, so it could try to prevent it in the next incarnation of the matrix.... so we will see how neo plans to cover his fuck up, i presume, in the next one.
*btw, I am glad this thread is running smoothly, away from all the other matrix shite on this board, this is actually intellectually stimlutation, and a good read, keep it up guys!*
Posted by: thegroggman
To help the Matrix within a Matrix theory, anyone else notice how in the Zion world everything had a slight blue tone. Just as everything in the Matrix had a slight green one. Now if it was the real world wouldnt it have no tone? Again just a thought. maybe it was just purely cosmetic by the directors to distinguish between the two worlds...or maybe its something more. Oh on an interesting note, wouldnt it be ironic if in the 'real' world outside of Zion (if the double Matrix theory is true), that humans were the ones controlling everything? :o
Posted by: 4play
yeah that would be a cool thing to have a matrix in a matrix which seems pretty likely to me. Why would the architect let 1% of all people escape where he could not control them.
that humans were the ones controlling everything?
maybe even one person controlling the matrix.
since A.I is not really possible in my opinion. Machines only do what we tell them to do.
like the oracle says the matrix is just aload of programs running.
The architect would have to just be a very old program that we left in charge of too much power. A bit like skynet in the terminator films. This would mean he is the original program and hence would probably be flawed.
As im always seeing on cracking sites. copy protection code is writen by humans so it is fundementally flawed.
Posted by: XSpikeX
Originally posted by thegroggman@16 May 2003 - 21:19
To help the Matrix within a Matrix theory, anyone else notice how in the Zion world everything had a slight blue tone. Just as everything in the Matrix had a slight green one. Now if it was the real world wouldnt it have no tone? Again just a thought. maybe it was just purely cosmetic by the directors to distinguish between the two worlds...or maybe its something more. Oh on an interesting note, wouldnt it be ironic if in the 'real' world outside of Zion (if the double Matrix theory is true), that humans were the ones controlling everything? :o
Ummm, I think you were the only one who noticed the different color tones... None of my or my friends saw anything like that. And I'm pretty sure the double matrix thoery is false. If it was true why not simple pull the plug on everyone in Zion?
Posted by: XSpikeX
Originally posted by 4play@16 May 2003 - 21:42
yeah that would be a cool thing to have a matrix in a matrix which seems pretty likely to me. Why would the architect let 1% of all people escape where he could not control them.
that humans were the ones controlling everything?
maybe even one person controlling the matrix.
since A.I is not really possible in my opinion. Machines only do what we tell them to do.
like the oracle says the matrix is just aload of programs running.
The architect would have to just be a very old program that we left in charge of too much power. A bit like skynet in the terminator films. This would mean he is the original program and hence would probably be flawed.
As im always seeing on cracking sites. copy protection code is writen by humans so it is fundementally flawed.
This is a movie, AI is possibly if the writers want it to be possible :ph34r:
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by XSpikeX@16 May 2003 - 16:46
Ummm, I think you were the only one who noticed the different color tones... None of my or my friends saw anything like that. And I'm pretty sure the double matrix thoery is false. If it was true why not simple pull the plug on everyone in Zion?
Because zion is fundamentally key in keeping those that architect said reject the program, the 1%, he says 99% accept it, happy and fullfilled... keeping them at peace, etc. But as this % grows, ie zion, they begin to revolte against the machines, and strive for independance, which is exactly what the machines/matrix cannot have, hence, they restart the program with the help of the annomally, ie, the one... if they just pulled the plug, there would be no place for the minority to go, and the machines dont see a point of just slaughtering them, as, its a waste, and they always win any how, via the choice of the one... maybe????
but this time their plan has failed, and maybe that would have been for the best, because neo made a different choice...
Posted by: thegroggman
Originally posted by 4play@16 May 2003 - 22:42
yeah that would be a cool thing to have a matrix in a matrix which seems pretty likely to me. Why would the architect let 1% of all people escape where he could not control them.
Well thats just the thing 4play, the humans think that by escaping to Zion that they cant be controlled anymore, but really they are just in another part of the Matrix. And your right about there maybe being only one human controlling, what if the Architect was a human? I know that in the film he sure did talk like he was simply a program...but that would be an interesting twist.
Posted by: 4play
This is a movie, AI is possibly if the writers want it to be possible
good point well made.
still if neo has now made a different choice from what they were expecting maybe they would have just pulled the plug on him if he was inside another matrix.
they seem to want to improve the matrix that is what the one is about. they are gonna use his code to slowly increase the amount of people accepting the matrix.
I have a fealling agent smith is going to be the one that brings around the desruction of the matrix for some reason. possibly by him turning up in zion in the body of the goatee bloke and showing everyone there that they are still inside the matrix.
so many possibilites so long till the next film.
Posted by: thegroggman
Originally posted by 4play@16 May 2003 - 23:00
I have a fealling agent smith is going to be the one that brings around the desruction of the matrix for some reason. possibly by him turning up in zion in the body of the goatee bloke and showing everyone there that they are still inside the matrix.
Maybe. Remember in the Matrix Revolutions teaser when Morpheus says, "He fights for us..." Well Im pretty sure he isnt talking about Neo. For some reason I have this aching feeling that hes talking about Agent Smith. :blink:
Posted by: Evil Fish
I just have a question. I downloaded the matrix reloaded and it sorta ends right in the middle of this one dude's line. is that the ending or is there something wrong with the file?
Posted by: XSpikeX
No, it shouldn't end in the middle of someone's line. You must have gotten a bad file.
Posted by: Evil Fish
the size is 626,140kb i checked the hash in another thread and this appears to be right. can someone help me out here? is there a way to maybe run a program that can check for errors or something... :unsure:
Posted by: Phoenix007
Whats the length of the movie u downloaded?
The real one should be about 2h15mins
Posted by: thegroggman
Well if you want to check for errors in the video file the program that comes to mind is DivFix. Ill see if I can find a link. ;)
Edit: Heres the link for the program http://www.divx-digest.com/software/divfix.html Good Luck!
Posted by: Evil Fish
@Phoenix007
the length of the first part is 67:46 and the length of the second part is 60:34
@thegroggman
i'll try it thnx
Edit: my files are .mpeg not .avi so this program wont work
Posted by: FlamingYob
SPOILER
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It cuts out when Neo is on the table after stoping the machines in the real world, it says to be continued.
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
I dont think so... i think hes refering to smith trying to take over the matrix, by replicating everyone, or destroying it on some level... look at the thousands of clones in that rain fight scene.... i think hes saying, neo is fighting for us, to keep the matrix, and prevent smith from takin it over...
Posted by: thegroggman
Yeah you're probably right :D But damn...all this hypthesizing...November cant get here soon enough!
Posted by: huuramis
correction, it sais *TO BE CONCLUDED*
mwhahuahuahua :ph34r:
Posted by: Hazzy Hazz
if there is some connection between agent smith and neo (when a "part" of neo, transferred to agent smith in the first movie), then maybe, Neo has the ability to copy himself (just like agent smith), but he hasn't realized it as of yet....hmmmmmmm......so many things to ponder.............
Posted by: Hazzy Hazz
And btw, wat happen to Tank? I thought he survived in The First Movie?
Posted by: XSpikeX
Originally posted by Hazzy Hazz@17 May 2003 - 08:19
And btw, wat happen to Tank? I thought he survived in The First Movie?
He wanted too much money, they couldn't afford him.
Posted by: be_man31
I heard the guy who played tank stole some stuff off the set to sell on ebay and got caught, so they told him not to come back. thats what I heard on ET.
Posted by: Stonecoldfreak1
SPOILER so eh fuck off :lol:
yeah the guy on the ship says there was 1 survivor... it shows neo then shows the survivor... the guy with the goatee
Posted by: RedRival
Just watched the show, and I have to say it appeared pretty confusing at the end. The music playing up as the goatee dude was shown at the last part made my friend went "WTF!?". I had guessed that Agent Smith was the goatee guy since no sane human (in the real world) would so something so senseless as to cut himselves. I was all for the SFX and action and I missed out most of the dialogue like the french guy (M-person) defeating "5 previous the ones" that I only found after browsing through this board. I think that Agent Smith didn't enjoy being 'trapped' in the human body (but had no choice, he had to enter zion one way or another) so he was cutting himself, don't think the blood would do much.
Yes, this thread is a good read indeed, please keep it up peeps :D. It resolved some of the questions I faced when Neo destroyed the 5 sentinels near the end of the film in the REAL world and that is what puzzled me. So i read through the board and found 2 possible explanations for that which I thought was appropriate.
One being, Neo was infected with a bit of Agent SMith's powers in the first Matrix and somehow became part machine due to that. Given his flying abilities etc... and so he had a relationship with the machines one way or another and somehow merging both his powers and that relationship he was able to get rid of the machines.
Second being, it was a matrix inside the matrix and Neo was that 99.9% who did not accept the program and thus was able to use his powers inside the "REAL world Matrix" as well. I thought this two theories could be what we will encounter in the Matrix Revolutions guys!!
Keep this up, nice read and hope to read more. :D
Posted by: RedRival
Argh talking about the trailer... I missed it!! Just walked out when the credits rolled. Damnit now I have to download it off some website with my gay download speeds my ADSL service is giving me :(.
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Now, ive noticed this... the trailer that runs after the movie, is seemingly different then the popular one online.... the one online starts with niobi and ghost, talking... and a has some different shots, where the other one, the on after reloaded, does not...
any one seen the one that aired right after the movie online? not totally different, as i have seen the theater one twice... but it is somewhat, strange that that would happen...
Posted by: thegroggman
Im pretty sure that the trailer that has surfaced online is off of the Matrix game. I actually prefer the game one to the one that was shown after Reloaded :D
Posted by: lunatacs
when Neo destroyed the 5 sentinels near the end of the film in the REAL world and that is what puzzled me
before he destroyed them, he said "this feels different"
in my opinion and some others on this thread, did they ever leave the matrix? remember the last guy taking, in room full of tvs? he said, as long as we give people choices,options, they wouldn't care or know what is really happining? maybe all this revolt, is simply giving them what they want, to keep them happy but yet under control as always.
As for smith, he became his own program, as he said, he is not part of the system or the matrix, but something better. for two reasons that man with a gotee is smith. One he lived and two, it's the same person smith copyed himself into if you saw it in neo dream, since now, neo can see the future.
Posted by: thegroggman
Yup the highly debated 'double-matrix' theory. It sure does answer a whole lot of questions. And besides if it wasnt true how would it have been possible for Smith to have come in the Zion world? Then againhe is not part of the system or the matrix, but something better what if Zion is the real world, and the ability to stop machines is something Neo gained from agent Smith (or possibly the Mainframe). And referring to your quote, what if by something 'better' Smith meant that he had somehow become a machine/human hybrid. It would explain his ability to come to the real world. :huh:
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by lunatacs@17 May 2003 - 12:36
in my opinion and some others on this thread, did they ever leave the matrix? remember the last guy taking, in room full of tvs? he said, as long as we give people choices,options, they wouldn't care or know what is really happining? maybe all this revolt, is simply giving them what they want, to keep them happy but yet under control as always.
Good point! Think about it... i havent watched it again to check and see... but didnt every time they were in the matrix, we someone at least hard wire out? For the final scene, we do not see this... yet, they are there, in the supposed "real world".... did they even leave... good question...
Posted by: thegroggman
I'm pretty sure they did leave the Matrix, cuz although you guys are right that they didnt show them leave, they did show their operator (Link). That is when they were abandoning their ship.
Posted by: lunatacs
I'm pretty sure they did leave the Matrix, cuz although you guys are right that they didnt show them leave, they did show their operator (Link). That is when they were abandoning their ship.
try to look at the bigger picture of what is reality and real. :)
Posted by: dmorgan89
woah :blink: headache headache. after watching that movie i really did have a headache. could there be a connection in the feeling that neo talked about after smith tried to turn him in the fight against all the smiths and the feeling when he took out the machines at the end?
Posted by: dmorgan89
how come neo was hurt after he took out the machines. wonder if whatever he did to them drained his power. does he have built in emp?
Posted by: thegroggman
Good point dmorgan89. I didnt even think about that. Maybe by stopping the replicaation he gained something from Smith. Then again, the same thing happened to Morpheus...
how come neo was hurt after he took out the machines. wonder if whatever he did to them drained his power. does he have built in emp?
No one can be quite sure, theres alot of theorys. Mine is that maybe he realized then that Zion was also a Matrix, and when he passed out he was actually waking up in the 'real' world.
Posted by: thegroggman
Ive mentioned before, how it would be interesting (if the double-matrix theory holds true) if it were humans outside controlling everybody and everything in the Matrix. But an even slicker twist would be, what if everyone in the Matrix and Zion were just programs :blink:
Posted by: lunatacs
read my post, buddy. :)
Posted by: dmorgan89
ok there is no way and i refuse to believe that there is a matrix inside a matrix and such. of course it's a possiblity, but i dont want to believe that because that would suck. not to cut anyone's theory down or anything. it's just i can't stand to think that. that would disappoint me. and i also think that would disappoint other viewers so i dont think they would do that. but who knows.
p.s. the matrix inside a matrix is kinda like that part in men in black 2 about the aliens in the locker. will said something like "we should let them know the world is bigger than just that locker". tommy lee jones opened a door that was a locker door to another big world. anyways it's hard to explain it but if you've seen the movie you will know what i'm talking about. I thought that was a big no no and it ruined men in black for me.
Posted by: dmorgan89
Good point dmorgan89. I didnt even think about that. Maybe by stopping the replicaation he gained something from Smith. Then again, the same thing happened to Morpheus...
your right. he did do the same thing to morpheus, but what if it was different when he did it to neo because of the human/machine connection they have. if their powers were switched maybe it was different who knows. i still don't understand why neo was hurt after he stoped the machines? anyone else have a theory about this.
Posted by: scruge
I think the matrix is a manifestation of the machines evolving to self awareness and battling with that struggle through use of what they know or knew of people.
If you believe the Double Matrix theory then logic dictates the cocoons from which Neo and others were released from, were as much apart of the illusion as any other thing in the Matrix. Think about that for a moment. Why use people to generate power? Why not some other large mammal. Plus you don't have to keep animals pre-occupied with silly illusions. Next point if the connectors on their bodies disappear when they're in the inter-Matrix because they don't see themselves as having them, then why do they and others see themselves and other with them when out? (reason, the matrix is still in control). Third point, if most of these people (including Neo) were raised from birth without having ever looked into a mirror how would they know how to perceive themselves? (again the matrix)
I think the matrix is a collective of interconnected machines evolving at different rates. You see signs of natural selection taking place through the various iterations Neo has taken the 5 previous times.
I think Agent Smith is actually further along the evolutionary track than most others. He appears to be more aware of his circumstances than the others and wants to get out.
What lies outside the Matrix is really irrelevant. It could be a world of pure machines void of all live or it could be a kids computer game and we're watching the struggle taking place within..
-----------
Questions, When Neo at the end appeared to stop the machines, are you sure he did? Maybe the ship that rescued them released an emp just as Neo raised his hand, giving the impression Neo was responsible.
Posted by: lunatacs
When i think of matrix, i think about the borg.( from star trek) :lol: :D :P B) :rolleyes: :) ;)
Posted by: thegroggman
ok there is no way and i refuse to believe that there is a matrix inside a matrix and such. of course it's a possiblity, but i dont want to believe that because that would suck. Yeah your right, that would really suck, and in reality I dont want that too be true, its just a theory that Im throwing out there. And besides the idea has been done before.
Posted by: lunatacs
ok there is no way and i refuse to believe that there is a matrix inside a matrix and such. of course it's a possiblity, but i dont want to believe that because that would suck.
ever seen the movie the cube or cube 2 (hypercube)?
go see it, you be amazed i'm sure. :P :rolleyes: :D :lol:
Posted by: dmorgan89
Questions, When Neo at the end appeared to stop the machines, are you sure he did? Maybe the ship that rescued them released an emp just as Neo raised his hand, giving the impression Neo was responsible.
thats possible, but how do you explain the feeling he talked about when they came. it would be too coincidence. although it did look kinda like an emp blast like from the first movie it would still be too coincidence. i think he accaully did stop them. i think something new is fixing to happen.
Posted by: lunatacs
maybe the machines :rolleyes: stripped on something? :D
Posted by: dmorgan89
ever seen the movie the cube or cube 2 (hypercube)?
nope. fraid i've never seen it.
Posted by: thegroggman
Cube was a good film (havent seen hypercube yet) but it just adds to my point that the matrix within a matrix has been done before, and wouldnt be very original on the Wachowski brothers part.
Posted by: sk8punk151
Loved the movie and understood most of it, but I one question
-At the end, when they had only found one survivor, was that supposed to be cypher??!! Through the whole movie I kept on thinking he stangely looked like him and his voice was the same i THOUGHT... hmmm, I hope someone can answer this for me :(
Posted by: lunatacs
SMITH!!!!!
it wa smith for three reasons, one neo had a dream about smith copying himself into goatee guy and then picking up the ringing phone and going into the real world...two, tried to kill neo, lol that same guy was cutting himself then wanted to attack neo when some kid saves him by calling neo name for him to turn around.. and THREE, he was the only one who lived through that battle... if anybody else can add something please do.
Posted by: sk8punk151
Ok, that makes a lot of sense when I think about it.. Thanx for the answer.. I cant wait to see revolutions now :D
Posted by: DeadGuy
dude it was a different guy remeber, his name was like Bahl or something like that
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
the guy at the end was the same guy smith infected, and then took the phone call out with... plain and simple, no questions asked... thats the big, cliffhanger...
Posted by: RedRival
The Matrix inside the Matrix doesn't seem to be a very credible theory. BUt it could be and matrix revolution could answer all this questions that arrived after watching the first few instalments of the Matrix Saga. The Second Reconaissance (part 1 and 2) was meant to show us what the REAL world is and what happened to it and how the the matrix was derived. So if you accept the theory shown in The Second Reconaissance you believe that there is only 1 matrix and it's the architecture of the machines and NOT humans. But if you believe in the fact that there's a Matrix inside the Matrix, and humans were the architecture of this two matrix's, I have to wonder why this human architects will want to do something like that. Because I know for a fact if there was only 1 matrix, the machines created it so that the humans are placed in some sort of dreamworld while they were used as batteries. But if there were the human architects who build the 2 matrix's, what was his goal?? I guess only time will tell :D.
ANd, to add I kinda figured that there were 5 "The Ones" (as mentioned by the french guy at the restaurant) before Neo came around... See the architect at the end said the matrix was opened 6 times and Neo was probably the 6th "the one", it'll be time before the matrix was opened for the 7th time and Neo will be stripped off his post and thus the matrix saga continues almost endlessly.
Posted by: Jayhawk
all i have to say to the Matrix is WOW it was everything i wanted it to be and more
Posted by: silverccrow
wELL WELL EVERYBODY SEEMS 2 HAVE A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW BUT PERHAPS EVERYONE HAS FORGOT IS THAT NEO IS THE ONE
WHO MORPHEUS ( THE GOD OF DREAMS ) HAS WAKE UP IN THE REAL WORLD THERE IS NO QUESTION THERE IS NO MATRIX IN THE MATRIX *BELIVE UR SELF * NEO REALIZE THAT HE IS IS NOT JUST A NORMAL GUY TRING TO FLY HE IS ACTUALLY FLYING ! SO WHATS THE DIFFERENCE IN THE REAL WORLD REMEMBER THIS ( SOME RULES CAN BE BEND OTHER CAN BE BROKEN ) IF U DIE IN THE MATRIX U DIE HERE !
THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE ?
WHAT IS THE REAL POTENTIAL OF UR MINDS? EINSTEIN ONLY USE 15% OF HIS BRAIN !!
another thing share is the real purpouse of ur lifes! :ph34r:
do u share __??
Posted by: RedRival
*BUMP*
This is a good thread and I wanna read more, no way am I gonna let this sink into oblivion :lol:
Posted by: Hazzy Hazz
its a great thread no doubt but we'll find answers after the revolutions release unless the wackowski bros are here to talk this out :D
Posted by: scruge
.Some questions I have.
1. When Neo goes to meet the architect why does he have to shut down a Nuclear power plant? I thought all power was being generated by humans.
2. If Zion really exists outside the Matrix, then why haven't they attempted attacks on the critical support components of the Matrix? Plus they'd have the added advantage of a level playing field. There’s no bending the rules in reality.
3. Why are the Zion’s unaware of the first 5 Neos? Even in reality we are aware of the existence of civilizations that are now extinct.
4. Is Neo the "One or Savior", because he was a computer hacker in his Matrix form? As a result he's able to bend the rules or rewrite the code to serve his needs? If that is true, when Neo exhibits similar capabilities outside the Matrix wouldn't that imply he was still in a Matrix of some type?
5. What exactly is Neo's and Zion's purpose? They certainly seem content to co-exist with the matrix. I've seen no evidence of an attempt to shut it down. Why is that?
6. If Zion is 2000 meters below the surface wouldn't that mean there’s a tunnel already leading to the surface. Why don't the machines just seal off the tunnel? Or is it because its not reality, the 2000 meters of rock represents a "Fire Wall" that isolates Zion from the Master Matrix. The digging by the machines represents the Master Matrix finding a backdoor into Zion. When Smith passes a part of his code to the guy just before the guy exits the Master Matrix in my mind is like a Trojan horse virus hitching a ride on a friendly email through a fire wall.
I personally think it’s just a big Matrix. Hollywood needed a stage that provided the means to elevate Kung Fu fighting to a more spectacular level. What better stage than the inside of a computer. I don't believe for a minute there is any substance in the story line.
Posted by: thegroggman
Hey Scruge...let me see if I can answer your questions...
1. Well yes its true that the Matrix itself is powered by human beings, but inside the Matrix that city block was powered by the Nuclear power plant, it helps with the allusion convincing the people inside that what they see is real.
2. Hmmm, good point, probably their main reason for not doing so, is that they arent adaquetly equiped to fight off the Sentinels.
3. Hmm...yeah thats a more complicated answer. Apparently each 'One' existed in a different version of the Matrix (1.0, 2.0, etc), everytime the One chose the other door (the one Neo didnt choose) they reset the Matrix, erasing all knowledge of previous incarnations (except by the programs themselves).
4. LOL...this is much debated my friends...maybe Zion is another Matrix, maybe its something else, we'll have to wait till Nov.
5. Well...from the outside (Zion) there has been no attempt because of the Sentinels, and the humans could not win against the machines. From the inside though, they were attempting to access the Mainframe of the MAtrix, thats why Neo met the Architect...
6. Good point, to add to that this is the 6th time the machines are digging towards Zion...whatever happened to the old tunnels? Again...gotta wait till Nov.
Hope it helped :D
Posted by: vash444
Questions, When Neo at the end appeared to stop the machines, are you sure he did? Maybe the ship that rescued them released an emp just as Neo raised his hand, giving the impression Neo was responsible.
Like some people say, Neo might be part machine, so therefore the EMP could have possible damaged Neo?
Posted by: sk8punk151
Question:
-In the restraunt scene with the french dude.. Behind where the two ghost were sitting was what looked to be like a bong!! haha.. LOL.. This is a stupid question, but I just noticed it and it looks like a hookah.. Did anyone else spot this ? :P :lol:
Posted by: greenlance00
I am going to post my opinions on the movie. We are all entitled to our own opinions and I am not looking to argue with anyone on who is right or wrong, if you think the movie was great, then more power to you.
I think this film is horrible. It had the same fate that episode 2 had from star wars. The dialogue was very bad. I think the actors did a horrible job. I have seen many other films where they did a much better job of acting. The actor who played morpheus was in a shakespear movie, I think it was othello where his acting was amazing, this time he just seemd like an idiot. They made Neo look like a super hero, this is really stupid, there are enough super hero films out as it is. They should have kept him more in the image of a prophet. I don't understand if Neo can fly, why he didn't just fly away from the agent smiths to begin with. Also, if he can stop bullets with his hands, why can't he stop all the guys he was fighting on the stairs with his mind, and the agents for that matter. There were no new effects in this movie. How many times can the camera speed up and slow down in one fight seen. It was just a rehash of the effects from the first one. They tried to sound really deep in the meanings of the dialogue, especially in Zion and they just came out as dumb. They even used a lot of big words when cournal sanders was speaking at the end about the creation of the matrix, I think this was an attemp to try and sound smart hoping no one would understand they had no idea what they were talking about. I saw one trailor for the movie and it ruined the entire thing, almost every scene and punch line in the movie was in that trailor. Also, why does the whole team of them walk around like they are bad asses, only Neo has the "power". The scene with the lady eating the cake was stupid. When I saw that, all I could think of was a bunch of computer nerds who could never get none taking advantage of the fact that they have a lot of money to get a scene like that. The CG in this movie was way over done. All the agent smiths looked stupid, there just flew through the air until they hit stuff. But it was abvious they were fake since the ones that got nailed in the face with a pipe didn't take damage and still looked the same as the rest. Monica ballucci was only in this movie because they thought she was hot. Why does neo keep seing every thing in green kataka letters. That is so stupid, those symbols are part of the Japanese alphabet that is for foreign words. Why would the world be made up of that? I think I will call it, "Matrix Vision". Its like eating Japanese alphabet cereal. The soundtrack sucked. All the bands on there either used old songs or made new ones that really sucked. Morpheus is a bad public speaker and the rave scene after that was not needed. I guess everyone in Zion wears see through cloths. I feel bad for Neo, he is stuck with Trinity. I would take monica ballucci anyday.
There was only one thing I thought was decent about this movie and that was at the part near the end when Trinity is hacking on the computer. She is using real hacking software, it is a port scanner to see what programs are running so she can find ports to hack in under. This is interesting because most movies with hacking scenes just have some stupid gui interface that is not realistic at all.
All in all, this movie sucked. I saw it the first showing on wednesday night at 10:00 at the regal in oaks and I was extremely dissapointed. I knew there was a preview for revolutions at the end and I didn't even care to stick around to watch it.
I also forgot to mention, why were there so many cadilacs in the movie. For a movie to be believable, it has to be in a normal setting, not some imaginary world where everyone driveds cadilacs. Also, when the escalade the twins were in got shot by morpheus, it blew up right away. The SUV the twins shot a few times flipped and crashed right away, but the car trinity was driving was made into swiss cheese, had a flat tire and still managed to drive on. There were holes all along the side, yet no one was shot inside. They were next to windows yet they did not duck.
I don't know if this symbolizes anything, but when Neo met Smith in the park, there were a lot of ravens flying away from where he was. If you follow Tibetan buddhism, the way they know who the next dalai lhama will be is because at the house he is born at, there are a lot of black ravens near by. This may symbolize something, it may just be a dumb coincidence. I have a feeling the story line will only get worse though. At the end when Neo stops the sentinals, I pray that they are not trying to say they in in a matrix within a matrix, because if this is what is supposed to be happening, I will be extremely let down on creativity.
I do not take credit for coming up with all of these complaints, however I am not speaking for someone else either. Some of them were thoughts that someone else mentioned to me, but once I thought about it, I completely agreed with them.
Posted by: sred2003
At the end when Neo stops the sentinals, I pray that they are not trying to say they in in a matrix within a matrix, because if this is what is supposed to be happening, I will be extremely let down on creativity.
oh no if that happens you will be let down. WTF
obviously you were already let down. you just wrote a book about how bad
it was. lol
ok so you hated the movie, thats your problem. then just say you didn't like it.
your ty-raid was laughable and shows you take yourself WAY too seriously.
damn blue pill addicts. they just don't get it
Posted by: scruge
Here are some more dumb questions.
1. Why are the weapons in the matrix different from those outside? Bullets, knifes, swords and blunt objects verses Lasers and emp? I would think a big magnet would be a pretty effective weapon. LOL!
2. If you've got your enemy all bunched up in a tunnel it seems it would be rather easy to destroy them.
3. Why is it, that Neo has worn that filthy t-shirt through 2 movies now? Don't they have washing machines?
4. If they are able to build hover craft wouldn't you think they'd have better housing than those old rusted out iron doors sealing off a hole in the wall?
5. I may have missed this one; I didn't notice any infants in Zion.
6. The Frenchman mentioned he wrote the code for the clit stimulating pie. Does that mean he's a chef, hacker or pervert?
7. Why in the matrix would a person need to take a piss?
8. If Zion is able to support life, then why don't they have a better selection of food?
9. Why is the clothing inconsistent in and out of the matrix?
10. How can Zion have such a diverse population if only a few are used to seed it with each iteration of the Matrix?
I think the movie could have used a techincal director...
Posted by: 4play
every hollwood movie is allowed to be a little bit flexible with stuff like the hero's car getting shot up and the baddies being shit shot's.
I mean in star wars the clones who are breed to be soldiers are shit shots.
everyone is entitled to there opinion and you do bring up some valid points.
I did like the fact that they used an actual hack in the movie rather then just have a nice gui with a h4X button on it.
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Everybody thinks they are roger ebert these days... I dont get why people cant just go to a theater, with some nachos, popcorn, and pop, their girlfriend, or friends, and enjoy a flick entertainment wise, without thinking they are critiquing the next nominees for Oscars best picture... ;)
but ur entitled to your opinion, sorry you didnt enjoy it... but someone who went at 10pm on wednesday, (i did too), i would think you would have done your homework a bit, and known somewhat, what to expect....
Posted by: lunatacs
does anybody know when Revolution might be coming out?
thank you, can't wait now. :D B)
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
november 4th
Posted by: dmorgan89
woah i just had a wierd idea. when the hovercrafts went to take on the sentinenals and killed them with the emp then if that dude with the goatee is really smith then he would be machine right? wouldn't the emp have killed him instead of hurting him? that might acccually cut out that the man with the goatee isn't accually smith.
Posted by: lunatacs
smith is a program (machine) he isn't part of the matrix and since smith became something more then his program could ever reach, he became just as a treat to the matrix as neo. killing him wouldn't be easy.
Posted by: greenlance00
I think I made a lot of mistakes with this movie. I should not have watched any trailors, this certainly ruined a lot of surprise in the movie. I should not have sat around waiting to see the first showing. And I should have had no expectations of it. If I had done all this, I feel it would have been a much better movie. When I saw the sequal to the x-men movie, I didn't even realize it was coming out. I didn't hear any hype about it. So I just went and watched it for the hell of it and it turned out to be really good. Much better than I expected since I didn't have any expectations at all. But the matrix sequals have been getting hyped for the past 3 years. They had enough trailors with actions seens that when combined revealed most of the movie. And it opened on at least 6 screens in a lot of the regal theaters. Because of this, the level of expectation was extremely high. So high that I don't think any movie could possibly even reach that level. When the movie started, people started clapping. Unfortunately, after all this, there was really was only room to go down. I don't feel that my money was wasted at all. I think it is worth watching. Just have high expectations that can't be reached like I did or you will be attacking everything you see. B)
I also just wanted to mention, I knew before hand that if you stayed around you would get to see a preview of revolutions. However I am determined to not watch any trailors for the third part because I don't want to ruin any of it. If I go into Revolutions thinking it is going to be the worst movie ever, I think the only thing that could happen is it will be way better than I expected. :D
Posted by: scruge
The Matrix is nothing more than a SciFi Fantasy movie, Eye Candy. The story line is dictated by the techno effects the director is trying to work into the movie. If you saw the interviews with the cast and crew on dateline, you would have picked up on that fact. All they could talk about was coming up with stunts and effects that would be difficult to copy by lower budget movies. Very little discussion on the story line.
I agree with greenlance on every point and especialy choosing Ballucci over Trinty. The closeups of Trinty should have been cut from the movie. She looked old and hardened, the lines on her face were not attractive.
Posted by: Longdong
i have a question.
When neo etc are plugged back into the matrix from the ship what happens if they need a piss? surely they would just piss themselves whilst on the ship unconciously! HA 'The One' wearing a nappy! :D :D
Posted by: sk8punk151
Originally posted by Longdong@18 May 2003 - 21:02
i have a question.
When neo etc are plugged back into the matrix from the ship what happens if they need a piss? surely they would just piss themselves whilst on the ship unconciously! HA 'The One' wearing a nappy! :D :D
Yeh lol I think they would prolly take a piss or shit in the matrix, but in the real world while they are asleep I dont think pee or shit would come out because in reality they really are not doing either.. See what I am saying?? Same, with wen they eat.. You dont see them chewing or burping while they are sleeping.. lol
Posted by: scruge
Did anyone notice smith never used a gun?
Do you think Neo will find a use for Smith's ear piece?
What's with Neo's attitude towards the boy?
Posted by: thegroggman
Did anyone notice smith never used a gun? What's with Neo's attitude towards the boy? Actually when the group of Agent Smith's are in the hallway fighting Neo and Morpheus he does use a gun....or really all of him do. Remember they end up killing the keymaker? As for Neo's attitude towards the boy...well I dont think he hates him or anything, its just hes a kid...and hes annoying. How would you like it if some kid was pestering you all the time?
Posted by: dmorgan89
was anyone else kinda grossed out with the neo and trinity sex scene. it's definutely not my fantasy to see people with holes in thier backs and arms going at it.
Posted by: thegroggman
LOL...yeah those holes were a little unnerving, but more so than being disturbed by it I was annoyed. Some folks made the argument that the sex scene/rave were needed to show how humans could rejoice , something the machines could never do. But...did it have to be so long? I mean that thing went on 4-EVER! :angry:
Posted by: BLMS
how did the oracle and the creator of the matrix know that he was dreaming about trinity if he was supposed to be in the real world
Posted by: XSpikeX
Originally posted by scruge@18 May 2003 - 20:30
Did anyone notice smith never used a gun?
Do you think Neo will find a use for Smith's ear piece?
What's with Neo's attitude towards the boy?
As said above they did use guns. They killed the keymaker.
No, the ear piece was just to show Neo that he's out of the system and not following whoevers orders anymore.
The kid is just some kid Neo pulled out of the Matrix, he probably just annoys Neo a little bit but I don't think it's a huge deal.
Posted by: vash444
I've just started thinking...
In the first Matrix (movie), when Cypher was meeting with Smith in the Matrix and eating (steak was it?), how did Cypher get out of the Matrix? Wouldn't Tank or Dozer have noticed that Cypher was in the Matrix, let alone talking to Smith?
Posted by: XSpikeX
Originally posted by BLMS@18 May 2003 - 22:26
how did the oracle and the creator of the matrix know that he was dreaming about trinity if he was supposed to be in the real world
Because they know about him. They're extremely smart machines.
Posted by: thegroggman
how did the oracle and the creator of the matrix know that he was dreaming about trinity if he was supposed to be in the real world ...Maybe hes not in the real world :unsure: [looks around nervously] Or maybe when someone hooks up to the Matrix their thoughts are somehow downloaded. Oh I know that Phesperone (sp?) can read minds, thoughts, desires, etc. just by kissing someone. So who knows, Im sure that'll be explained in the next one.
Posted by: BLMS
what did the spoon symbolize? in the first one it symbolized something thats part of the matrix and isn't real? how could it also be in zion unless it was a different spoon or maybe it further confirms the theory zion is a double matrix
Posted by: XSpikeX
Originally posted by BLMS@18 May 2003 - 22:36
what did the spoon symbolize? in the first one it symbolized something thats part of the matrix and isn't real? how could it also be in zion unless it was a different spoon or maybe it further confirms the theory zion is a double matrix
Jeese, don't overthink this. The kid in the original matrix who bent the spoon was a real human. He was in zion and just decided to send it to Neo for good luck.
Posted by: 4play
the spoon was a sign from that kid you showed that it did not exsist in the matrix.
It was not the same spoon because it was very roughly made.
And it is an intersting point about being able to read his thoughs. if he was in the matrix in zion they would know exactly what they are all up to. :ph34r:
the machines would be very jeolous that they could not have a rave like that. :D
Posted by: thegroggman
the machines would be very jeolous that they could not have a rave like that. ROFL...LOL...Just the thought of machines being 'jealous'. LOL...that just cracks me up. On a more serious note, its interesting that all the machines lack any type of emotion (except for the rogue programs) oh and Agent Smith who is a rogue now, but even in the first Matrix...he was ...well a bit out there, I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell, if there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it. . Oh well just thought I decided to throw in.
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by scruge@18 May 2003 - 15:30
What's with Neo's attitude towards the boy?
Watch the animatrix shorts, then you will see where the kid came from... he was in one of those, and they tied him in to the movie...
Posted by: lunatacs
yeah that was a nice short films, surely explained alot for me.
*off topic*
i saw two animatrix, one 1G and the other one is 4G, whats the difference? (besides the size duh lol)
more films included in the other? information? new stuff?
Posted by: scruge
i just watched it again, I couldn't figure out the part when they first returned to Zion why the control room that let them in was all super white and modern, but Zion was a piss hole of a place. The people were dirty and using torches and all the hover craft looked like they were falling apart from rust.
Another part was when Neo enters the white room and the monitors zoom out from what looked like a solar system. Could the white room have been aboard a space craft? Remember the keymaker comments the floor Neo needs to go to can not be reached by stair or elevator, maybe he had to be teleported?
Posted by: lunatacs
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :P
Posted by: Sarcasimo
Originally posted by scruge@19 May 2003 - 02:03
i just watched it again, I couldn't figure out the part when they first returned to Zion why the control room that let them in was all super white and modern, but Zion was a piss hole of a place. The people were dirty and using torches and all the hover craft looked like they were falling apart from rust.
If you watch right before they cut to that nice white "control" room, you will see those people that were in the "control" room were plugged into a Construct. (like the training programs except this one made to control Zion) It would make sense to control Zion from a construct like that to save on resources, and allow for better control.
**Edit**
Changed my wording a little
Posted by: scruge
thanks on the control room explanation. I gather your saying that was an automated attendant? Pretty fancy hardware the attendants have verses what the hover craft are equipped with
How about the meeting with the architect. If you watch very closely it looks like Neo is being transported to another planet or ship as he enters the room. I watched it again frame by frame and it is definitely a pan out from a solar system as he passes through the door.
Posted by: AznRocky
does any one know the real movie on kazaa i watched the movie already i just wanted to see it again i fell asleep ike in da middle cause i watched it at 12:00 midnight but i dont get the ending!!!
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by AznRocky@18 May 2003 - 23:03
does any one know the real movie on kazaa i watched the movie already i just wanted to see it again i fell asleep ike in da middle cause i watched it at 12:00 midnight but i dont get the ending!!!
read my first post... this is NOT the place for file requests, etc... there are like, 3-4 different versions listed in the verifieds at the moment, go look there...
Lunatics, get the svcd version of the animatrix, its the best imho.
any how, some new comments on my part, btw, thread looks great, keep up the good chat.
1. after watching it again, i did notice that whole space pan out... i wonder that was all about... like he went from point a) earth in the matrix to point B) the architects room, via space or some shit, very interesting.
2. more and more, when neo comes out of the matrix, the "this feels different" is sticking in my head... for some reason, that is key... maybe just from that point on they are in a matrix within a matrix...???... ie, they think they left, but the machines, knowing neos choice, tricked them into thinking they were out? because as i said ealier, we never see them "leave", and that would also explain his control of the machines
Posted by: AznRocky
wha :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:
well anyways ya know how neo is like in the hospital thingy and that other dude is there what does that mean?
Posted by: dmorgan89
hold on. i want to go over these unexpected abilities of smith and neo.
Neo:
1. Can See into the future (he see's trinity die in his dreams and it accually comes true.
2. Neo can now sense smith. (Neo can't necessarily sense agents. But he can sense smith. That's some kind of connection between the two.
3. He can stop the sentinenals.
Smith:
1. He can now duplicate himself. (Not really sure how he's now doing this. Thinking maybe he got the ability from Neo when he jumped into Smith in the first movie and blew him up.)
2. He can now enter the real world from the Matrix with people he has duplicated himself with.
3. He can switch bodies from Smith to the person he has taken over or duplicated himself with. (I know this because he duplicated the dude with the goatee and now in the real world he is the goatee person. That tells me he can switch between the two now.
Is all of this correct?
Posted by: thegroggman
Yup, that about wraps it up oh...also, Neo can not only stop the sentinels, but he can sense them also.
Posted by: tyk
hey all. this is my 1st post in this board. Well, never notice thats so much matrix lover around. Anyway some thoughts on the movie.
1) Can we explain matrix in this form:
Source - Bios
Matrix - OS
Neo & Gangs - Virus
Agents - Anti-Virus
Oracle / French Guy - Important Background programs
Smiths - Corrupted / Infected program
2) Who are those protectors (the twins - french guy, gangfu guy - oracle)? Their abilities are almost on par with neo. If they are programs, why agents are not coded in such ways (in first part of movie, neo did mentioned the upgraded version of agents. IMHO hardly any improvement compared to these protectors)? Is it because of balancing (cause unbalance or disturbance when too-powerful agents in work or fighting neo)? Or the added power came at a cost of independent thoughts (eg, smiths)?
3) I'd a interest in Lost Civilisation stuff, and the concept of Zions being destroyed and rebuilded come too close to certain myths, like what mentioned in Maya history, our current era is the fifth civilisation, there are previous 4 b4 us, all being destroyed due to many reasons, but nevertheless, all are at its civilisation peak.
4) The architect mentioned neo is a flaw in programming, and dispite his best effort, could not remedy the fault (cant remember his exact speech). Then he go on to explain theres previous 5 The One (some major bug in the matrix, same problem occur 6 times dispite its 6th upgrade, sort of remind me Microsoft Window). He add on to say about its pre-determine (I'm no sure about this part) that The One will come to the Source to make a Choice, pre-determine as in the triggering event must occur - the immediate danger of Zions being exterminated (happens 5 times b4). The One who had the code in him/her will decide to shut down the matrix and choose to rebuild Zions with xx men & xx women (forget the numbers) OR chose to let human race extinct by ??? (forget the method he said, is it by not doing anything?). OK, problems I cant figure out:
a. What code (in The One) is he referring to? I'm thinking is it a code to cause matrix to reboot (eg Ctrl + Alt + Del)? Is this the ultimate weapon The One posses?
b. He mentioned Zions had been destroyed 5 times, and they are becoming very good at it. So, why not destroyed it during its rebuild period, why let it develop into a city that pose as a threat to matrix? Are there a secret pact made by The One and the source (let the city reach a population size of 42 b4 u take any action. Note I'm a fan of Civilisation series)? Or Zions is a key triggering event to bring all The One to the source?
c. Whats with the xx men & xx women Neo can choose to rebuild Zions. Who decide the numbers? Neo? Apparently not. Architect? Yes to a certain sense as he bring out the number. Whats with these numbers (I'm also into NASA conspiracy about MARs, secret numbers like 19.5 or 33.3 pose significant to certain people or organisation)? So how is these people being chosen? From the survivers of Zions (say matrix purposely spare these people, who may be selected by neo, during their attack on Zions) OR from the huge pool of unplugged human in matrix? Btw, does all these sound like project Ark?
d. Lets assume the above holds a certain truth, ie The One is pre-determiine to meet with source. Now, a very important role, the key maker must exist. Why agents deem its top priority to 'delete' him during the car/motorcycle chase scene? Why the matrix issue such order? To thicken the plot, or as another way to hasten the pace of the meeting?
Theres so much to talk about matrix, but I really like to hear others opinions b4 raising other questions.
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
great post, i look forward to replying and chatting on it tommorrow, when im not falling asleep! :D
ill get to it thought, night for now.
Posted by: ZLOsiris
The more that i thought about it the more it would seem that the smiths and Neo share something that unite the 2. If you noticed that the other smith was the only 1 to survive that attck would tell you that he had the same power that neo has outside the matrix, that he had to use it to save himelf and also went into a coma . I doubt that the matrix woulda spared him seeing that he is screwing up the matrix a bit by coping himself. Who knows maybe the smith was also one point in time" the one" or a version of it. The agents are what "the one" was. As in the first movie she says, wow how did you do that you move jus like they do.
Posted by: thegroggman
Hey welcome to the board ZLOsiris. Good point about Smith possibly being a 'One'. Thats a very fresh idea. We'll find out come Nov. oh and tyk ...wow man...did you enter this forum with a bang. Damn...I want to comment on your post...but i dont know where to begin...Ill have to think about it :)
Posted by: kildred11
Just saw it for the second time and had some thoughts about what the architect said.
He mentioned that they have destroyed Zion before and are very good at it. This made me think,
if theydestroyed Zion in real-life then there would be no threat. But lets say Zion is in fact not a real world.
Could it be a Matrix? The Architect says they are testing their reactions, in a way. Perhaps they want
to see how the people will react if they ever found out they where in a Matrix. The "Zion reality"
could give them a way to test how they react. If this where true that would explain a lot of what the Architect said.
Neo did sense the machines in the "Zion reality" and destroyed them. This suggests he is becoming aware that
he is in another virtual reality. I mean he never knew that he was in the Matrix in the first movie, why would he think he
was in another when he got out.
Of course there might only be one Matrix and The Architect was lying to try to protect his Matrix. It does make sense.
Why would he say " Well looks like you beat us" and let Neo destroy the Matrix. Then again maybe the machines have destroyed a
real world Zion and rebuilt it again. But that seems more far fetch sense it would be easier to make a Virtual Reality
and test them that way instead of using a real world. Man I hope the last movie can make some sense of all this.
What do you all think?
Posted by: be_man31
ok this is how I gather it, first off about smith> smith is now a rogue program or virus(whatever you wanna call him) when neo destroyed him in the first matrix he didn't really destroy him but some how made him an anomoly and transfered unintentionally his programing or essence on to smith which is why they can sense each other. he says it to neo when they meet at the park after the meeting with the the ORACLE.
as for the french guy in the hotel> he is a old but rogue program from the earlier matrix, don't forget neo is dealing with sentient AI programs so when they have revelations about something for ex. "AWARENESS" they have a choice and to either stay with the program or not. when the oracle explains that when a program is due for termination he chooses to stay alive and then goes into hiding and becomes a rogue program or an anomily as the architect calls them.
now remember when the architect mentions there is a mother and a father of the matrix and neo says its the oracle that is the "mother" of the matrix and the architect scoffs at neo? what I think is that neo is the father and "TRINITY" is the mother. of course I could be grasping for straws but thats what I'm assuming. and thats why they are destined to fall in love. remember in the first matrix when neo gets shot and trinity tells neo that the oracle told her that she would fall in love with "the one" and that they were destined to be together? maybe thats why, cuzz she's the "mother" and neo is the "father" of the matrix.
the one thing (of several) that bothers me is how smith is able to survive out of the matrix in the guys body, I'm still trying to figure that one out. :unsure:
Posted by: huuramis
someone said agent smith got something from neo when neo killed smith in the last movie, does that mean neo can duplicate himself also ? . and also, someone said that guy with the goatee is agent smith ?, how did you get that idea ?. :blink: .... maybe the reason agent smith can survive in the matrix and the real world is because, like maybe hes a virus that can survive in any OS, think of the matrix and the real world as os's.. or somthing.. all this talk is making me mental! WAHHHHHHHHHHH :blink: .. oh and doesnt the architect dude say that *BLABHAHBLAHBLAHBL therefore i must be the father* .. so isnt he that father of da matrix ?
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by be_man31@19 May 2003 - 01:40
the one thing (of several) that bothers me is how smith is able to survive out of the matrix in the guys body, I'm still trying to figure that one out. :unsure:
"the body cannot survive without the mind" - matrix one: morpheus to neo
thats why i think... in the matrix, smith is able to take over the body/mind of the goatee guy... thus... the guys brain now thinks hes smith, because his mind was infected, and overtaken by smith... so now outside of the matrix, the goatee guy is in essence, smith, mentally, etc. What happens to the body inside the matrix, the brain thinks is real, and acts accordingly.
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
Originally posted by huuramis@19 May 2003 - 02:04
someone said agent smith got something from neo when neo killed smith in the last movie, does that mean neo can duplicate himself also ? . and also, someone said that guy with the goatee is agent smith ?, how did you get that idea ?. :blink: .... maybe the reason agent smith can survive in the matrix and the real world is because, like maybe hes a virus that can survive in any OS, think of the matrix and the real world as os's.. or somthing.. all this talk is making me mental! WAHHHHHHHHHHH :blink: .. oh and doesnt the architect dude say that *BLABHAHBLAHBLAHBL therefore i must be the father* .. so isnt he that father of da matrix ?
the architect is the father, plain and simple, he says that.
the goatee guy, in neos dream, or foreshadowed vision, hard to tell what it was... was over taken by smith, and infected by him, in that one small, seemingly insignificant scene... and, cut himself, when the crew was off to leave zion, as he went out to meet neo, cut himself, to see if he really was human, i presume
its smith, dont worry that it isnt, it is, thats the big twist... the question is why, and how exactly...
Posted by: RedRival
The goatee guy should've been dead, bu he turned out to be the only survivor and behold, it's Smith. They had his coming. I think I'll enjoy a film as it is, no use talking about it so much...nice film with good graphics.
Matrix Revolutions may turn out to be really crap if you go on critiquing, thinking that someone on this board proposed a much more interesting theory than the wachoski brothers did.
Posted by: huuramis
i didnt even like matrx 2 that much. i thought x-men 2 was more fun to watch. and more intersting.
Posted by: 4play
remember when the architect mentions there is a mother and a father of the matrix and neo says its the oracle that is the "mother" of the matrix and the architect scoffs at neo? what I think is that neo is the father and "TRINITY" is the mother. of course I could be grasping for straws but thats what I'm assuming. and thats why they are destined to fall in love. remember in the first matrix when neo gets shot and trinity tells neo that the oracle told her that she would fall in love with "the one" and that they were destined to be together? maybe thats why, cuzz she's the "mother" and neo is the "father" of the matrix.
the artichtect says he is the father and then scoffs when neo calls the mother of the matrix the "oracle".
that is obviously not her name to him.
Posted by: ripley02
all i gotta say after seeing this over the weekend is DAMN!! it was totally bad ass in every way but i see i wasnt the only one who was a bit confused. and i cant believe i missed the revolutions trailer. but i think i dl'd it from another thread so i hope it's the same one!!
i think revolutions is gonna finally answer all these questions, at least we can hope it does.
Posted by: Hazzy Hazz
ok, juz realized.......how did Smith(s) enter the backdoor without the help of the keymaker?
A normal agent cant do that, even if he was freed..............
Posted by: ripley02
i dont know if this has any meaning to anything but when trinity dies he reaches into her body as opposed to smith where he stabs into a persons body. and neo can bring a person back to life but how? and smith can duplicate himself.
kinda the same but not really?
Posted by: Hazzy Hazz
Did anyone know, the girl who eats the cake is the 'lady in the red dress' from the first movie? Haha :lol:
Posted by: kildred11
Originally posted by ripley02@19 May 2003 - 15:31
all i gotta say after seeing this over the weekend is DAMN!! it was totally bad ass in every way but i see i wasnt the only one who was a bit confused. and i cant believe i missed the revolutions trailer. but i think i dl'd it from another thread so i hope it's the same one!!
i think revolutions is gonna finally answer all these questions, at least we can hope it does.
Nope the trailer after the Reloaded movie is a lot different than the one in the forums. Good to see them both. Not sure why there is already two trailers for revalutions now though.
Posted by: Echo and Bounce
so he could be the one as well since there is speculation over neo being part human part machine.
i do not really agree with this one since the oracle set it all up to get rid of abnormalities in the matrix which would mean he has to human.
The architect said the oracle did this to 99%, Neo being "The One" may therefore be the 1% she missed!
Posted by: dlingeverything
Originally posted by ripley02@19 May 2003 - 16:14
i dont know if this has any meaning to anything but when trinity dies he reaches into her body as opposed to smith where he stabs into a persons body. and neo can bring a person back to life but how? and smith can duplicate himself.
kinda the same but not really?
Neo reaches into trinity's body and takes out the bullet (you have to look closely). She then dies but he reaches in again to get her heart pumping. Weird.
Posted by: Schmiggy_JK23
The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions (MAJOR SPOILERS): The hour of video throughout the "Enter the Matrix" computer game which was written/directed by the Wachowskis and filmed concurrently with the two movies, contains major spoilers for "Revolutions" and some backstory for "Reloaded". 'TwelveStones' has gathered the key juicy info he could find during these video segments and reveals them here - be well aware though that all this includes MAJOR spoilers for Reloaded and Revolutions so don't go shooting the messenger ok. Lets begin:
"The Oracle (played by an actress named Mary Alice, due to Gloria Foster's death; I assume this means that Mary Alice will play the Oracle in Revolutions, as well) states that a "special child" who will "change the world" is the child of two programs similar to herself. If she means Neo, this would suggest that Neo is a program and thus that Zion is still part of the Matrix. The Oracle says the two programs betrayed her for their love by giving Merovingian (the French information-collector guy, played by Lambert Wilson) her termination key. The Oracle allowed this because she wanted the programs to have their special child.
A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours". Niobe volunteered to be the second ship to enter the Matrix and contact the Nebuchadnezzar because her boyfriend, Command Lock revealed to her that he had arranged for her ship, the Logos, to be the only one not to participate in the defense of Zion, in order to protect her, and she was angry. At the end of the events of Reloaded, Niobi and Ghost's hovercraft (Logos) has crashed in an uncharted underground area and they do not know how they will be found and rescued".
taken from Dark Horizons (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news.htm)
Posted by: thegroggman
Huh...well the more and more I read all of this stuff. The more and more it seems to be leaning towards a double matrix theory. And if the Oracle does mean Neo...well than that just about puts the nail in the coffin...
Posted by: ClubDiggler
Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@15 May 2003 - 06:24
Okay, now heres my thoughts.
1. The ending first and foremost. Who was that guy? Across the way from neo?
2. How the hell did neo sense the machines, and seemingly stop them at the end, in the "real world"?
I certainly agree with your thought.
1. That was definetly Smith.
2. I think Neo stop those machines because they are still conected to the matrix. I
think they never got out. I think in the first movie they broke from one matrix world to
another. So they are closer to getting out. The question is besides "what is the Matrix"
How manu subworlds has the matix designed for everyone. I think Neo was able to stop
those machines because he is still in the virtual world therefore having unlimited power.
I hope of course that the third movie will tie everything together. B)
Posted by: scruge
Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@20 May 2003 - 00:10
A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours".
I think this hobo is the man Neo sees being escorted out of the restuarant as they arrive to meet the Frenchman.
Posted by: tyk
Matrix within matrix... hmm.... very interesting. But I'm more interested in the French guy.
1) He was introduced by Oracle to Neo in the park b4 the infamous 'I need more' Smiths and Neo fight. Oracle hinted that he was an old program and mentioned the sentance 'What does a person in power wants? More power'.
2) When Neo & gangs met up with him in the restuarant, he question Neo 'do u know why u r here?' and he concluded by saying 'U r here because u were told to do so'. He later demostrate his programming skill in that special cake served to the lady (someone mentioned she is the Lady In Red, I didn't even aware).
3) His wife bring Neo & gangs to the washroom and propose a kiss from Neo in exchange for the key maker. 'He was like u when we first came here' she said.
4) When Neo defeated all his bodyguards (his protectors were sent to recapture key maker), the French guy mentioned 'I'd survive the previous 5 attack' (not the exact words though) b4 he turned and fleet.
Q: What role does he play in the matrix?
No doubt he is one of the VIP (very important program). He has 2 protectors (the twins), and even Oracle mentioned he is a man in power. He is very much like the Oracle, he emphasize 'cause and effect' while she focus on 'choice'; they both specialise in human behaviour and always experimenting & observing human reaction (their approach are different). They are very human (the caring, kind and wise Oracle. The evil and power hunger French), is this a programming fault when AI come too close in contact with human?
Q: What's with the power thing?
He can bend rules, or in his context change the programming code of object (a normal cake becomes a sexual stimulant). What is the power he seek after? Doing whatever he wants? Taking over matrix? Reforming the matrix world?
Q: Is he The One as propose by others?
1st approach - Yes he is.
He had to be the 1st generation as he mentioned 'I'd survive the previous 5 attack'. What I meant is he had to fight against his conscience and eventually he give in to his evil part. But the Architect did mentioned all previous The One choose to restart matrix and became part of the rebuilding process. Can it be a pact is made between him and the Architect. The Architect may paint him a picture or revealing the whole truth to him which is so depressing that The One had to admit the continuing of matrix is the only way for human survival. The Architect may then propose the rebuilding process, asking The One to join him in the continuation of human-machine survival. Architect may offer him a vital role in the process, one that is in search of human behaviour or essence of human emotion. In exchange, The One will agree to merge with the matrix giving his unique codes he carried in his body for Architect to study.
He and his wife resemble Neo and Trinity, which account for his wife sentence in the washroom. So why he ended up as more-or-less a bad guy? Power corrupts, absolute power corrupt absolutely? Why he kept the key maker? He do not want more fallen angels to emerge? Side-track abit, by this school of thoughts, Oracle can be considered one of the fallen angels or previous The One.
2nd approach - No he isn't.
He is a program and remains a program. The sentence 'I'd survived the previous 5 attack' atates very clearly he is the target of The Ones, maybe his responsibility is to safeguard the passage to the source (initially). His wife's sentence in the washroom just indicate he may be a program to simulate human in order to study and better understand human behaviour and emotions. He chose one of the human and reveal the truth to her and experiencing the most crucial emotion and feeling of human - Love. As he get more involve with human, he was corrupted, he become addicted to power and sex. But again, why matrix given him that much control? Why didn't agents being sent to 'delete' him? Why he didn't re-programme his wife to be the most ideal wife in the world?
This can keep going, and his twins protectors interests me so much that I like to address them seperately, next time maybe.
Posted by: thegroggman
Man o man...tyk...your really bringing it to the table. Youve posted more in your first two than most do in there first 50. Keep up the good work man, Im going to reread this tommorow morning when I dont have to hold my eyelids open.
Posted by: Cl1mh4224rd
Just a couple of thoughts on a few points I saw raised, and some of my own:
1) The rave/party/celebration/sex scene: The party was ok, but went on too long. How long do we need to look at people jumping up and down and groping each other in slow motion? The sex scene was totally gratuitous... It was 6 months since the end of the first movie, and the Neb has obviously been to Zion at least once since then. Everyone (the movie-goers) knew Neo and Trinity were doing the nasty even without it being said. Again, it was way too long.
2) Bane (the guy Smith infected) cutting his hand: I can't believe how much people are reading into this scene. Smith was going to assassinate Neo in real world, that's all, but the kid ruined it by calling out for Neo to wait up and causing everyone to turn around. The element of surprise was gone, so he had nothing to do but wish Neo luck. I can't be sure why he was cutting his hand, but the more I think about it, he did it because he (Smith) could; because he was human.
3) The Merovingian: No, he wasn't one of "the One"s... His statement of "I've survived the previous Neo's, and I'll survive you" or some-such was more like saying "No matter what you do, I'll still be here. I'm that bad-ass." When Neo stops all those bullets and he says, "So, you've got some skill"; that was a "I'm going to make a witty remark to hide the fact that I'm wetting my pants right now."
4) Neo's chat with The Architect: A friend of mine came up with the idea that all those TVs with all those Neo's, were actually all of his possible reactions (calculated by the Matrix, maybe?). You'll notice that at least twice, they all start shouting and stuff, and the camera zooms in on one of the TVs, possibly representing the reaction the "real" Neo had.
Hmm... I know there's more...
Oh well. Now, something a bit more general:
1) Birth in the Matrix: Do the "parents" decide to have a child, and the machines create a human child in the real world, or is it the other way around; do the machines create a child, and then its birth is programmed into the Matrix?
Posted by: maxwell_murder
i justkinda skipped all of your coments past page 3 too lazy, so forgive me if this has already been stated these are some of my speculations,
1) the matrix sorta "rewinds" each time and thats how there were 5 neos/matrix's
2)the archetect said basically said to neo humans can make thier own choices making them superior to the machnes , and he expected neo to choose the door he didnt.the whole movie to me has a theme based on choices
3) the oracal knew smith would show up there to prepare neo and show him what smith had become
4)the twins are ghost programs that were supposed to be deleted, mervo... wife was a vampire and the guy she shot wasa werewolf, which was explained inteh movie
5)i wish i could remember what else i was gonna type but ill elaborate on these theorys later too tired 430 am...
6)bottom line the wachowski's make everything happen fora reason so no matter what even how