City of New York; FDNY release oral histories re:911...

[vidcc]

After having heard some of the tapes on the news I am wondering, apart from a morbid curiosity to hear these voices, what purpose is served? I don't think anyone had doubt in their minds as to the horror of the situation.
Wouldn't the transcripts as you posted be sufficient?

[tracydani]

I read through a couple and was suprised to see this....
__________
We just happened to be on the staircase with an FBI guy. He had an FBI jacket on. He turns around to me and goes, “We’ve got to get out of here.” I said, “What are you talking about? We’re getting out. Let’s go. Everybody’s walking out.” He said, “No, you don’t understand. There’s more planes coming.” I said, “What the hell are you talking about, more planes?” He said, “There’s two more planes on the way for these buildings.” “What do you mean, two more planes?” I didn’t even know there was more than one plane at this point. We didn’t know there was a second plane.
___________
Springstead, Bertram (rtf file) Firefighter Ladder 9 (F.D.N.Y.)



Any chance these have been modified? Seems kinda strange that this would be known by anyone while it is happening.

Don't mean to turn this into a conspiracy thread, so if this post needs moved, feel free otherwise...

TD

[lynx]

Tower 2 had already been hit, and Springstead wasn't aware of that. This was at about 10.15am, just before the collapse of Tower 2. By that time they knew that other planes had been hijacked. The FBI guy may have just been informed of the other hijacks by radio.

[neon]

i hate all you NON-BELIEVERS, stupid sheep.

only now has the mainstream MEDIA finally doing something about it..

9/11 ON TRIAL

Towers that fell ‘like a controlled demolition’. Planes that vanished then mysteriously reappeared, And crucial evidence that has been lost for ever. A new book raises bizarre yet deeply unsettling questions about the world’s worst terror atrocity…..

http://www.financialoutrage.org.uk/911_mainstream_media.htm
http://www.911blogger.com/2005/08/hi-res-s...article-in.html (http://www.911blogger.com/2005/08/hi-res-scans-of-major-911-article-in.html)

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail1.jpg

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail2.jpg

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail3.jpg

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail4.jpg

[j2k4]

i hate all you NON-BELIEVERS, stupid sheep.

only now has the mainstream MEDIA finally doing something about it..

9/11 ON TRIAL

Towers that fell ‘like a controlled demolition’. Planes that vanished then mysteriously reappeared, And crucial evidence that has been lost for ever. A new book raises bizarre yet deeply unsettling questions about the world’s worst terror atrocity…..

http://www.financialoutrage.org.uk/911_mainstream_media.htm
http://www.911blogger.com/2005/08/hi-res-s...article-in.html (http://www.911blogger.com/2005/08/hi-res-scans-of-major-911-article-in.html)

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail1.jpg

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail2.jpg

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail3.jpg

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail4.jpg

Stunning.

Have you had your brain checked for a stuck pawl or something?

Perhaps you've pushed that finger a few inches too far up your nose?

[GepperRankins]

i hate all you NON-BELIEVERS, stupid sheep.

only now has the mainstream MEDIA finally doing something about it..

9/11 ON TRIAL

Towers that fell ‘like a controlled demolition’. Planes that vanished then mysteriously reappeared, And crucial evidence that has been lost for ever. A new book raises bizarre yet deeply unsettling questions about the world’s worst terror atrocity…..

http://www.financialoutrage.org.uk/911_mainstream_media.htm
http://www.911blogger.com/2005/08/hi-res-s...article-in.html (http://www.911blogger.com/2005/08/hi-res-scans-of-major-911-article-in.html)

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail1.jpg

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail2.jpg

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail3.jpg

http://www.911blogger.com/files/images/dailymail4.jpg

Stunning.

Have you had your brain checked for a stuck pawl or something?

Perhaps you've pushed that finger a few inches too far up your nose?
it's a copy and paste. nothing more than what you do.


i find it funny that you use childish insults because you don't dare for one second question what your government does. i can't believe people like you think we're sick, when you refuse to question how thousands of people died. we're out to stop more people dying and to stop terrorism. while you sit and follow the lead of the people who should have prevented this in calling us stupid

[tracydani]

Tower 2 had already been hit, and Springstead wasn't aware of that. This was at about 10.15am, just before the collapse of Tower 2. By that time they knew that other planes had been hijacked. The FBI guy may have just been informed of the other hijacks by radio.


I had forgotten about this thread.... Makes sense:)

[j2k4]

it's a copy and paste. nothing more than what you do.

I do more seat-of-the-pants posting than you do by far, Dave.

Do you cut and paste things you don't favor?

i find it funny that you use childish insults because you don't dare for one second question what your government does.

You don't have the first idea of what and how much I question what my government does, merely because you don't think that it happens.

How little you know-perhaps you should pay more attention.

i can't believe people like you think we're sick, when you refuse to question how thousands of people died.

How does one go about questioning this in such a way one such as yourself would notice and credit it?

we're out to stop more people dying and to stop terrorism.

Really?

Tell me how you are doing this, precisely?

Seems to me all you do is ascribe all the world's problems to the U.S. and call it a job well done.

while you sit and follow the lead of the people who should have prevented this in calling us stupid

When have I called you stupid?

How can you be sure that is what is happening when your crowd is the one which favors the bendo-flexy method of defining words?

For all you know I am complimenting you... :dry:

[Rat Faced]

Gepper,

j2 has questioned his Government more than once.

Not enough to stop him voting the people in... but thats because he see's the Democrats as the worse of 2 evils at the moment i suspect.


Its also natural to defend your countries actions, even if you dont personally agree with their actions... unless you're a cynical twat like me ;)

[Busyman]

Gepper,

j2 has questioned his Government more than once.

Not enough to stop him voting the people in... but thats because he see's the Democrats as the worse of 2 evils at the moment i suspect.


Its also natural to defend your countries actions, even if you dont personally agree with their actions... unless you're a cynical twat like me ;)
j2 has questioned liberal actions almost exclusively.

It's also natural to defend your party's actions. j2 may question his own party but it is in private so all people have to go on is what's on the forum.

I'm not jabbing at j2 but I think people should question more without bullshit allegiance.

Regarding this article....it would make a great movie.

I've always had certain suspicions without the reading of the propaganda. It's documented on this forum long ago before some of these "theories" popped up. The main obvious one for me was the plane crashing in the Pennsylvania......with some wreckage 8 miles away from crash site.

All I will say is..........

Our government has denied the JFK was shot by more than one gunman.

To believe everything the government tells you without question because they are "looking out for your best interests" makes you a mindless automaton.

If the gubment wanted to put one over on you, you'd believe what they say although they are really putting one in you...and out....and in...and ou

[Everose]

I agree, Busyman, that no government should be 'followed blindly.' By the same token, nor should they be accused or attacked blindly.

Guess I haven't really seen anyone follow a government blindly on this board.

[j2k4]

j2 has questioned liberal actions almost exclusively.

This owing to the facts we are almost bereft of Communists and also that I prefer the Conservative ideal to the Liberal one?

For one who purports to avoid hewing to any ideal, you spend precious little time defending anything Conservative, B., and frankly I can't think of any instance of your having done so.

It's also natural to defend your party's actions. j2 may question his own party but it is in private so all people have to go on is what's on the forum.

Yes, all one has to do to witness my shredding of Republicans is observe my rhetoric while I'm occupying the private area(s) of the board; it's mostly what I have been doing of late... :lol:

I'm not jabbing at j2 but I think people should question more without bullshit allegiance.

Not jabbing??

Boy. I'll say... :P

[Busyman]

j2 has questioned liberal actions almost exclusively.

This owing to the facts we are almost bereft of Communists and also that I prefer the Conservative ideal to the Liberal one?

Mmk. Sooo?

For one who purports to avoid hewing to any ideal, you spend precious little time defending anything Conservative, B., and frankly I can't think of any instance of your having done so.

I'm against gay marriage, some forms of affirmative action (and I'm black), and many forms of welfare. I also support a strong military and smaller government (Bush doesn't even support small government). You've got to do better than that j2. All of this can be turned up on a search. So you were saying?

It's also natural to defend your party's actions. j2 may question his own party but it is in private so all people have to go on is what's on the forum.

Yes, all one has to do to witness my shredding of Republicans is observe my rhetoric while I'm occupying the private area(s) of the board; it's mostly what I have been doing of late... :lol:

I do recall once you saying Bush is fucking up but you still support him and a copy/paste doohicky where there some Republicans and Democrat pushing for something that you, along with the majority of Republicans, were against it. So since you were against some outcast Republicans that time, you get 1/2 a point. :lol: :lol:

I'm not jabbing at j2 but I think people should question more without bullshit allegiance.

Not jabbing??

Boy. I'll say... :P

I wasn't really.
----

Now I, on the other hand, am on record as not following one mainstream ideal.

[Everose]

I agree that it is important not to 'blindly follow' any government, Busy. O the other hand, I also do not think one should 'blindly attack or trash' it either.

I don't think I could accuse anyone on this board of blindly following any government.



(Weird. I posted this last night, saw it post, but then woke up this morning and it was gone. ????)

[Busyman]

I agree that it is important not to 'blindly follow' any government, Busy. O the other hand, I also do not think one should 'blindly attack or trash' it either.

I don't think I could accuse anyone on this board of blindly following any government.



(Weird. I posted this last night, saw it post, but then woke up this morning and it was gone. ????)
:blink:

I see it. It's post 11. :huh:

Stop double posting Evey. Spamming bastard. :P

[Everose]

Busy, after reading the above article, and the resulting discussion, I have to agree with you.

No one should 'blindly believe' what any government tells them. On the other hand, no one should 'blindly not believe' what any government tells them.

I have never seen anyone on this board 'blindly believe' what a government tells them. ;-)

[j2k4]

Now I, on the other hand, am on record as not following one mainstream ideal.

If merely saying it makes it so, then... :huh:

[Busyman]

Now I, on the other hand, am on record as not following one mainstream ideal.

If merely saying it makes it so, then... :huh:
No. Unlike yourself, I've had verbal sparring to that effect. I can't be considered liberal nor conservative. Hell I'm against gay marriage but am pro-choice ffs.....

...so yes it is so.

[j2k4]

If merely saying it makes it so, then... :huh:
No. Unlike yourself, I've had verbal sparring to that effect. I can't be considered liberal nor conservative. Hell I'm against gay marriage but am pro-choice ffs.....

...so yes it is so.

Your are not liberal, and you are not conservative.

You are ideologically bifurcated.

The disconnects and gappage would drive me nuts, which means you must already be that way.

I'm more of a mortise-and-tenon, dove-tail, hand-in-glove kind-of-guy.

It's just more sensible.

[Busyman]

No. Unlike yourself, I've had verbal sparring to that effect. I can't be considered liberal nor conservative. Hell I'm against gay marriage but am pro-choice ffs.....

...so yes it is so.

Your are not liberal, and you are not conservative.

You are ideologically bifurcated.

The disconnects and gappage would drive me nuts, which means you must already be that way.

No it's just my ideology is my own and not pigeon-holed. I've never seen the word bifurcated before. I'm assuming it means going in 2 directions.
edit: Wtf is up with me tonight...I've used furcate before :blink: . Damn I must be tired. :( :frusty:

If that's the case then you don't get it (and I hope that this is your natural vocab and that you don't have a thesaurus next to your computer...who knows :dry: )

Your way of thinking of American politics is one of two ways (and is typical of politics in America). Mine is not.

Either something is sensible to me or it isn't and I see CaptainObvious nonsense in many parties (yes the Green Party too).

I, unlike JP for instance, do not believe in a welfare state for it fucks the whole system (and it does today). If you are able, you fucking work. However........if you are working you should have access to medical care. The money is there. DC can all of a sudden find the money for a baseball stadium but can't fund education better.
....but if you want to live on the street and be a bum...fuck off and rot. You are not even trying to help yourself so why should government?

I dislike abortion. However I'm Pro-Choice. A fetus is part of a pregnant woman's body. Who is government to regulate her body? If she chooses to destroy the unborn then that's between herself, her doctor and GOD.
Also many conservatives need to cut the shit by going biblical regarding abortion. If that's the case the......
No abortions should be legal under any circumstances. If the baby will come out deformed, so be it. It results from rape, so be it. It results from incest, so be it. Save the life of the mother, SO BE IT. Would you save your child or would you save your wife, from a burning building?

If Conservatives are Pro-Life why does it apply to babies only? What about the death-row inmates? Sounds like Pro-Death to me.

I'm also for small government, and as a correlation, lower taxes. However Bush, for example, is big government (I know it's post-9/11) and lower taxes. Ass-backwards.

Why isn't welfare, as it stands, tightened. Why are mothers allowed to have more children while on welfare. If the government is giving away money, there ought to be tighter stipulations.

How the fuck can my right to bear arms be considered almost Holy by the NRA? Wtf can they have against tighter gun control? The purpose of our right was not fucking entertainment.

I'm for a strong military for without it, that "other" dictatorship could roll right over you. With a strong military also comes....the need to....NOT USE IT ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

End of rant-------

Well not quite...
Someone please tell me this...

Why are there separate bathrooms for men and women?

[Everose]

There are separate bathrooms for men and women because if there weren't, women would never get their turn. :rolleyes:

[Busyman]

There are separate bathrooms for men and women because if there weren't, women would never get their turn. :rolleyes:
We don't stay all day in the bathroom Evey.

Now give me a real answer. :rolleyes:

[Everose]

Not sure. Have only been in a mens' restroom once and wonder if it wouldn't be a bit rough to sit on those urinal things. There. That's my real answer and I am sticking to it. :D


Why is this bugging you? Seriously.

[clocker]

... I hope that this is your natural vocab and that you don't have a thesaurus next to your computer...who knows :dry: )

I know.
I can assure that he does not.

It may surprise you to learn that j2 cannot read at all.
He plays this by ear.

[JPaul]

I'm more of a mortise-and-tenon, dove-tail, hand-in-glove kind-of-guy.

It's just more sensible.
I'm more of a "decide each issue on it's own merit kind of guy"

It's more difficult.

[j2k4]

I'm more of a mortise-and-tenon, dove-tail, hand-in-glove kind-of-guy.

It's just more sensible.
I'm more of a "decide each issue on it's own merit kind of guy"

It's more difficult.

Nothing at all against difficulty, but, apart from the rather asinine hook liberals try to deploy by their absurd use of the abortion/death penalty tactic, I think you'll find that merely foregoing the politics of emotion for the much-preferrable politics of reason provides the best basis for critical thinking, and, between the two of us, the practicality of acknowledging the basic fact of our differing political philosophies serves to reveal two sets of thought-dynamics remarkable in their similarity.

[clocker]

Nothing at all against difficulty, but, apart from the rather asinine hook liberals try to deploy by their absurd use of the abortion/death penalty tactic, I think you'll find that merely foregoing the politics of emotion for the much-preferrable politics of reason provides the best basis for critical thinking, and, between the two of us, the practicality of acknowledging the basic fact of our differing political philosophies serves to reveal two sets of thought-dynamics remarkable in their similarity.
I take it back.
Maybe he does have a thesaurus.

[j2k4]

Nothing at all against difficulty, but, apart from the rather asinine hook liberals try to deploy by their absurd use of the abortion/death penalty tactic, I think you'll find that merely foregoing the politics of emotion for the much-preferrable politics of reason provides the best basis for critical thinking, and, between the two of us, the practicality of acknowledging the basic fact of our differing political philosophies serves to reveal two sets of thought-dynamics remarkable in their similarity.
I take it back.
Maybe he does have a thesaurus.

Oh...ummm...what's the word...

Pshaw! :D

[Rat Faced]

politics of reason

When will you start this?

I see a lot of Politics of Ideology, not a lot of reason. :P

[j2k4]

politics of reason

When will you start this?

I see a lot of Politics of Ideology, not a lot of reason. :P

What is an ideology but collected reason?

Why are liberals never accused of being ideological?

[Busyman]

I'm more of a "decide each issue on it's own merit kind of guy"

It's more difficult.

Nothing at all against difficulty, but, apart from the rather asinine hook liberals try to deploy by their absurd use of the abortion/death penalty tactic,
....well don't proclaim to be pro-life because of the Bible and then later be pro-death.

It's not a hook.

Conservatives are Pro-Life and Pro-Death at the same time. :frusty:

That's ass in 9. :dry:

[j2k4]

Nothing at all against difficulty, but, apart from the rather asinine hook liberals try to deploy by their absurd use of the abortion/death penalty tactic,
....well don't proclaim to be pro-life because of the Bible and then later be pro-death.

It's not a hook.

Conservatives are Pro-Life and Pro-Death at the same time. :frusty:

That's ass in 9. :dry:

No, it's not, and no, they aren't.

You have to learn to separate the issues properly, B.

[Busyman]

....well don't proclaim to be pro-life because of the Bible and then later be pro-death.

It's not a hook.

Conservatives are Pro-Life and Pro-Death at the same time. :frusty:

That's ass in 9. :dry:

No, it's not, and no, they aren't.

You have to learn to separate the issues properly, B.
Oh no I get the rationale...

A baby is an innocent life that hasn't done anything to warrant premature death.

A person convicted of a heinous crime is (most likely) deserving of death 'cause a judge and/or jury said so.

Uh huh I get it.

Still it doesn't change the fact that the Cons are...

a Pro-Liphe/Def combo. :dry:

[Tikibonbon]

No, it's not, and no, they aren't.

You have to learn to separate the issues properly, B.
Oh no I get the rationale...

A baby is an innocent life that hasn't done anything to warrant premature death.

A person convicted of a heinous crime is (most likely) deserving of death 'cause a judge and/or jury said so.

Uh huh I get it.

Still it doesn't change the fact that the Cons are...

a Pro-Liphe/Def combo. :dry:


Is there a manual anywhere that states what you have to believe to be a conservative or liberal? For some odd reason I was under the impression that political views were an individual thing. I was also under the impression not all conservatives were pro life and not all were pro death.

[j2k4]

Oh no I get the rationale...

A baby is an innocent life that hasn't done anything to warrant premature death.

A person convicted of a heinous crime is (most likely) deserving of death 'cause a judge and/or jury said so.

Uh huh I get it.

Still it doesn't change the fact that the Cons are...

a Pro-Liphe/Def combo. :dry:


Is there a manual anywhere that states what you have to believe to be a conservative or liberal? For some odd reason I was under the impression that political views were an individual thing. I was also under the impression not all conservatives were pro life and not all were pro death.

I would say that is true enough; Conservatives (according to the manual) are anti-abortion, however may fall on either side of the line when considering the death-penalty/life-imprisonment question-I see circumstantial reasons for having both, but would guess that the issue would be less pressing if it developed that life in prison meant life in prison.

A Conservative has a law-and-order orientation in any case, and does not favor namby-pamby sentencing procedures and rampant plea-bargaining.

Busyman:

You are arguing half of the issue; you make the mistake of assigning a moral equivalence to each action when such doesn't apply.

A side-light of the "death" issue is euthanasia, which most Conservatives do not abide easily.

[Rat Faced]

Gawd i hate this Liberal/Conservative crap...

Just about everyone will be "Liberal" on some issues and "Conservative" on others.

Apart from the ideological idiots of course :snooty:

[Busyman]

Gawd i hate this Liberal/Conservative crap...

Just about everyone will be "Liberal" on some issues and "Conservative" on others.

Apart from the ideological idiots of course :snooty:
True...I am none of the above.

[Busyman]

Oh no I get the rationale...

A baby is an innocent life that hasn't done anything to warrant premature death.

A person convicted of a heinous crime is (most likely) deserving of death 'cause a judge and/or jury said so.

Uh huh I get it.

Still it doesn't change the fact that the Cons are...

a Pro-Liphe/Def combo. :dry:


Is there a manual anywhere that states what you have to believe to be a conservative or liberal? For some odd reason I was under the impression that political views were an individual thing. I was also under the impression not all conservatives were pro life and not all were pro death.
No shit.

[j2k4]

Gawd i hate this Liberal/Conservative crap...

Just about everyone will be "Liberal" on some issues and "Conservative" on others.

Apart from the ideological idiots of course :snooty:

Do you mean you want to start from scratch?

Okay; I subscribe to no political ideology, and you have no idea whatsoever about my views on any issues at all.

What would you like to know? :P

[j2k4]

BTW-

How is it, with all the slings and arrows I deal with in here, that I have never disavowed my conservatism, yet the rest of you writhe in agony at the prospect of being labeled liberal/socialist, or even communist, like my friend Rat?

[Rat Faced]

I am a Socialist, and proud of it... unlike the Labour Party to which I disavowed myself. ;)

Even I however, know myself well enough to say.. not every view i have is socialist.

[j2k4]

I am a Socialist...

No, you are a Communist.

JPaul is a Socialist.

Busyman is politically bi-polar.

Or so he says... :huh:

[Busyman]

I am a Socialist...

No, you are a Communist.

JPaul is a Socialist.

Busyman is politically bi-polar.

Or so he says... :huh:
You know my views j2.

They agree and disagree with yours.

[j2k4]

No, you are a Communist.

JPaul is a Socialist.

Busyman is politically bi-polar.

Or so he says... :huh:
You know my views j2.

They agree and disagree with yours.

Most of the time I'm not aware of your agreement, however I get the impression I've never missed the other... :)

[Rat Faced]

I am a Socialist...

No, you are a Communist.



I take exception to that..

I feel the same way about Communists as i do about Facists.. Totalitarian Bastards.

[Busyman]

You know my views j2.

They agree and disagree with yours.

Most of the time I'm not aware of your agreement, however I get the impression I've never missed the other... :)
Well agree with some Republican views. Too bad Bush is a horrible Republican.