Hurricane Katrina...

[peat moss]

In a feeble attempt to change the subject , a young friend at work today wondered aloud if the people were covered by insurance ? Like do you still have to pay car payments on a car 10 feer under water, or mortgage payments on a house no longer standing ? Made me sick to think of it tho .



I'm thinking act of God and probably not covered .............

[brotherdoobie]

In a feeble attempt to change the subject , a young friend at work today wondered aloud if the people were covered by insurance ? Like do you still have to pay car payments on a car 10 feer under water, or mortgage payments on a house no longer standing ? Made me sick to think of it tho .



I'm thinking act of God and probably not covered .............

I was thinking about that today. What about all of the
lost wages, due to people being off of work? I know I
couldn't afford to miss even a week of work.

Peace bd

[peat moss]

Hey bro if I got sick or hurt and missed two "pay days" I'd be out in the street till my plan kicks in after 90 days . And I have one of the better ones . Let alone worry about my car payments .



Kind of puts it into perspective some there have no homes or jobs to go back to . :(

[peat moss]

This is interesting , first Mexicon troops operating on American soil since 1842 .


http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-katrina-mexico-hk4,0,3153098.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[manker]

As for my 'Don't judge me' comment. It wasn't about 'me' - it was about judging the bilions of people who decided that America have enough funds to clear up their own mess and their donations were needed more elsewhere.So you are saying that you did indeed donate money? Because it sounds like you didn't, so that would include yourself as #1 in the billions you are talking about.The post was about European leaders not donating (much). I appropriated that to a post I made about not judging those who didn't donate. That's why it isn't about 'me'. I'm not billions of people.

I can be even more specific if necessary but, really, I think that should suffice.



Here's a very unique idea: let's stop attacking each other and pointing fingers and just say your peace. If you don't agree with someone, fine. Regardless of popular belief, that is a very natural human thing to do. But quit taking shots at each other.If you disagree with someone and post to that effect, you're effectively taking a shot at their beliefs.

Given this is a place to discuss opinions, how do you propose we avoid this.

What saddens me with this topic is that it seems like people are losing focus that there are actual people, lots of people affected by this tragedy, and instead of keeping that in mind when posting, they just want to use this as a venue for America bashing.

Hey bash America, poopoo on Bush all you want, I don't care. But, this topic, this tragedy, these people they don't deserve it. If you hate America, anyone, from any country, that's fine, its your right, just don't lessen this topic with it.

These are human beings, people, your fellow man and woman; does it really matter they are from America? If so, then shame on you, all of you.I don't think you can be addressing me since I haven't made a single post bashing America in this thread. However, since you chose to do so while answering me - I can state quite simply that what you're getting upset about is quite unavoidable.

Everyone sympathises with the loss of life. That is unquestionable.

However, the political actions that either contributed to the loss of life or stemmed it is what people disagree on. If you'd like a thread where person after person commiserates with the American nation, then start one but this thread is also discussing whether American politicians did the right thing.

There are bound to be people disagreeing and taking shots at each other's beliefs. You can either deal with that and contribute in a sensible manner or you can start a Hallmark thread* - your call.

*© Busyman

[Busyman]

while at the same time being incapable of organising what should have been a fairly straightforward emergency action.
Straightforward emergency action?!!!! :lol: :lol:

[Busyman]

Honestly Busyman, I don't know what people are supposed to post. Ask yourself, what is the right way to object to a government, George Bush, and America as a whole.

I do know this: The tragedy from this hurricane isn't the venue to post anti-America/Bush/Government topics. This is about the people, go make some other topic about those things. Lets act like mature people and not shout off at the mouth the first chance we get, just because we don't agree with something or someone.

Damn man, I feel a lot like everyone else in this topic, people in Louisiana got the shaft man, but I don't think it does any one of those people any good to sit here and bitch about Bush and America's government.

If you want to raise awareness about those things do it in the right way, don't prop it up on the backs of the people in this tragedy.
First off, the real good will come from action and not Hallmark posts or bitching. If these threads start generating money based on sympathy then I'll be a sympathizingbleedingheartliberalspammingpostwhore. Furthermore, if critical posts that you say are "prop[ped] up on the backs of the people in this tragedy" turn out to take food and shelter from the victims then I'll be the first to STFU. :ermm:

Since they don't, I'll post how I feel and usually won't choose my words carefully.

Unlike others across the sea, if this was handled well, then I'd be first to stand-up and commend Bush. He just happens to dissapoint me time and time again.

When people show the correlation between this and Iraq. It's relevent. Correlation does always equal cause and effect but in this case, it could be somewhat.
When our government pours so much money and resources into "helping" other countries that well....

5 days is a long fucking time and I know the victims feel/felt the same way.

[JunkBarMan]

@mankar: Nice try, nice try. My good sir, you speak from both sides of your mouth. Post what you like, I am not your dictator. I said my peace, continue as you were.


@Busyman: I agree with most of what you say, and for that, I hope we can see eye to eye.

But, I am sorry to say sir, Correlation of Causation is indeed an untrue statment. Basic macroeconomics 101.

You correlate the money spent in Iraq as the reason why it took 5 days to get some action down south?

I don't think the reason why it took 5 days was a matter of money, was it? Bush just authorized $40 billion or something like that to start.

I think after this is all said and done, we can only hope that this "investigation" as to why it did take that long will reveal the error of our government's ways concerning FEMA. What that means at this moment, I don't know.
Most likely the top dog will get fired, or spin it on down to someone lower on the ranks, but people's heads will roll and life will go on as it always does.

I would only hope that our government will take FEMA and make it it's own department again, so the red tape won't be so thick the next time.

[Busyman]

@Busyman: I agree with most of what you say, and for that, I hope we can see eye to eye.

But, I am sorry to say sir, Correlation of Causation is indeed an untrue statment. Basic macroeconomics 101.
Cool. I never said it was a true statement. Are you trying to show your knowledge of macroeconomics?
CorrelationofCausationwhateverthefuck is not ALWAYS untrue though.
Oh but I said that already. :ermm: Thanks I learned about that in the 9th grade and it wasn't macroeconomics
I will agree though that for the 5 day lag to be attibuted to lack of resources because of Iraq, is stretching. It could be logistics and notgiveashitism. However, it still relevent. If we have the need for soldiers for another war during the Iraqi War, it would be relevent and the possible cause for us being shorthanded.


I don't think the reason why it took 5 days was a matter of money, was it? Bush just authorized $40 billion or something like that to start.
I thought it was 10. Anyway I said nothing of money regarding Iraq. I'm talking soldiers. There are a certain amount used to secure places other than an actual affected emergency area (especially during an emergency). The government tries not to operate like the police where they send 6 cop cars for one incident while criminals can do fuck all elsewhere in the city.

[lynx]

J2, of course I'm going to call you on your previous statements.

You demanded Kofi Annan's head before any investigation was concluded, even the UN's own. You criticised the UN for running its own investigation.

Okay.

Yet you seem to be emphatic in refusing to do the same when your own president is directly involved, both as ultimate head of the organisations who are supposed to supply relief, and for conducting his own investigation.

Perhaps you can use your modly powers to manufacture a post in which I am "emphatic in refusing...", etc., but I have barely even posted here in my own thread, much less commented on Bush's role, or any investigation by anyone of anything.

Such content does not exist in this thread; you know it, and anyone else attending does also.
Thank you for confirming my point. How come you weren't so circumspect with regard to what was happening at the UN?

So I repeat that you are guilty of dual standards and hypocricy.

Merely saying it does not make it so, lynx, but again, I'm sure you could concoct something, couldn't you...
I could, but you've shown it to be unnecessary.

It seems to me that your government will be calling for wholesale changes at the UN for mismangement, while at the same time being incapable of organising what should have been a fairly straightforward emergency action. Perhaps that tells us the source of your hypocritical stance.

You really don't get it, do you?

You stand in judgement of every tiny thing that happens in the U.S., but wouldn't dream of being nearly so discerning, discriminating, or critical of ANYTHING that goes on at your beloved U.N..

Methinks the black pot is speaking out-of-turn, and from the shade, into the bargain.

You've got some nerve, calling me a hypocrite.I get it exactly.

This is the third time in this thread that you've accused me of criticising the US. I've done no such thing, I've criticised you, but you probably think they are synonymous. Now you accuse me of ignoring what happens at the UN. Again, I've done no such thing. Unlike you, I waited for the outcome of the investigation.

I've done none of the things you accuse me of, a typical ploy by those who wish to divert attention from their own behaviour.

You criticised the UN and its head at a time when little information had been revealed and while an investigation was ongoing, actions which echoed those of many in the GOP. When I suggest you should simply be consistent you accuse me of making things up.

Frankly, if you can't even be consistent it lends weight to the argument that your opinions are worthless.

[BigBank_Hank]

Hey bro if I got sick or hurt and missed two "pay days" I'd be out in the street till my plan kicks in after 90 days . And I have one of the better ones . Let alone worry about my car payments .



Kind of puts it into perspective some there have no homes or jobs to go back to . :(
I don’t know how many companies are doing this but I do know that the Harrah’s Casino is paying all of their employees who were affected for 3 months. Harrah’s lost three properties due to the storm, one casino in Louisiana and 2 in Mississippi. So all of the employee’s of those three casinos will get their regular paycheck like they normally would.

[manker]

@mankar: Nice try, nice try. My good sir, you speak from both sides of your mouth. Post what you like, I am not your dictator. I said my peace, continue as you were.That is quite possibly the most inane statement I've ever read.

[lynx]

while at the same time being incapable of organising what should have been a fairly straightforward emergency action.
Straightforward emergency action?!!!! :lol: :lol:I'm not saying it is straightforward now. But what could have been arranged earlier would have been fairly straightforward, and consequently could have been started on time.

Certainly, subsequent action would still have been complex, but many lives could have been saved with simple prompt action.

[j2k4]

You really don't get it, do you?

You stand in judgement of every tiny thing that happens in the U.S., but wouldn't dream of being nearly so discerning, discriminating, or critical of ANYTHING that goes on at your beloved U.N..

Methinks the black pot is speaking out-of-turn, and from the shade, into the bargain.

You've got some nerve, calling me a hypocrite.I get it exactly.

This is the third time in this thread that you've accused me of criticising the US. I've done no such thing, I've criticised you, but you probably think they are synonymous. Now you accuse me of ignoring what happens at the UN. Again, I've done no such thing. Unlike you, I waited for the outcome of the investigation.

I've done none of the things you accuse me of, a typical ploy by those who wish to divert attention from their own behaviour.

You criticised the UN and its head at a time when little information had been revealed and while an investigation was ongoing, actions which echoed those of many in the GOP. When I suggest you should simply be consistent you accuse me of making things up.

Frankly, if you can't even be consistent it lends weight to the argument that your opinions are worthless.

Oh.

Care to comment on any of this?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168829,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168648,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168591,00.html

There's much, much, more where that came from...

[JPaul]

There seems to be a basic misunderstanding here. Having a shitload of money does not mean that you can supply the aid which is required. You can't buy what you need just because you have the money, the thing may not be available.

That is why countries like the UK send specialist resources, including equipment and more importantly highly trained people. I am quite sure it is these resources which were requested by the people organizing the relief effort.

Better that than sending more money to sit in a big pot. You save people by being there doing stuff, not by having money in the bank.

[GepperRankins]

I get it exactly.

This is the third time in this thread that you've accused me of criticising the US. I've done no such thing, I've criticised you, but you probably think they are synonymous. Now you accuse me of ignoring what happens at the UN. Again, I've done no such thing. Unlike you, I waited for the outcome of the investigation.

I've done none of the things you accuse me of, a typical ploy by those who wish to divert attention from their own behaviour.

You criticised the UN and its head at a time when little information had been revealed and while an investigation was ongoing, actions which echoed those of many in the GOP. When I suggest you should simply be consistent you accuse me of making things up.

Frankly, if you can't even be consistent it lends weight to the argument that your opinions are worthless.

Oh.

Care to comment on any of this?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168829,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168648,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168591,00.html

There's much, much, more where that came from...

The Real Oil-for-Food Scam
Last year, right-wingers in Congress began kicking up a fuss about how the United Nations had allegedly allowed Saddam Hussein to rake in $10 billion in illegal cash through the Oil for Food program. Headlines screamed scandal. New York Times’ columnist William Safire referred to the alleged U.N. con game as “the richest rip-off in world history.”

But those who knew how the program had been set up and run – and under whose watch – were not swayed.

The initial accusations were based on a General Accounting Office report released in April 2004 and were later bolstered by a more detailed report commissioned by the CIA.

According to the GAO, Hussein smuggled $6 billion worth of oil out of Iraq – most of it through the Persian Gulf. Yet the U.N. fleet charged with intercepting any such smugglers was under direct command of American officers, and consisted overwhelmingly of U.S. Navy ships. In 2001, for example, 90 of its vessels belonged to the United States, while Britain contributed only four, Joy Gordon wrote in a December article for Harper’s magazine.

Most of the oil that left Iraq by land did so through Jordan and Turkey – with the approval of the United States. The first Bush administration informally exempted Jordan from the ban on purchasing Iraqi oil – an arrangement that provided Hussein with $4.4 billion over 10 years, according to the CIA’s own findings. The United States later allowed Iraq to leak another $710 million worth of oil through Turkey – “all while U.S. planes enforcing no-fly zones flew overhead,” Gordon wrote.

Scott Ritter, a U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq during the first six years of economic sanctions against the country, unearthed yet another scam: The United States allegedly allowed an oil company run by Russian foreign minister Yevgeny Primakov’s sister to purchase cheap oil from Iraq and resell it to U.S. companies at market value – purportedly earning Hussein “hundreds of millions” more.

“It has been estimated that 80 percent of the oil illegally smuggled out of Iraq under ‘oil for food’ ended up in the United States,” Ritter wrote in the U.K. Independent

sores: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0908-05.htm

[Busyman]

There seems to be a basic misunderstanding here. Having a shitload of money does not mean that you can supply the aid which is required. You can't buy what you need just because you have the money, the thing may not be available.

That is why countries like the UK send specialist resources, including equipment and more importantly highly trained people. I am quite sure it is these resources which were requested by the people organizing the relief effort.

Better that than sending more money to sit in a big pot. You save people by being there doing stuff, not by having money in the bank.
I doubt there was a misunderstanding.

Unless it's charity and sometimes military, money buys resources anyway. :ermm:

[Santa]

Question

Now that the US military and governement is so displaced, is it not the best strategic moment to attack as an enemy?


silence

[JPaul]

There seems to be a basic misunderstanding here. Having a shitload of money does not mean that you can supply the aid which is required. You can't buy what you need just because you have the money, the thing may not be available.

That is why countries like the UK send specialist resources, including equipment and more importantly highly trained people. I am quite sure it is these resources which were requested by the people organizing the relief effort.

Better that than sending more money to sit in a big pot. You save people by being there doing stuff, not by having money in the bank.
I doubt there was a misunderstanding.

Unless it's charity and sometimes military, money buys resources anyway. :ermm:


Are you really that dense.

[GepperRankins]

I doubt there was a misunderstanding.

Unless it's charity and sometimes military, money buys resources anyway. :ermm:


Are you really that dense.
why would the government say just send money if they don't want money, just other resources?

[Busyman]

I doubt there was a misunderstanding.

Unless it's charity and sometimes military, money buys resources anyway. :ermm:


Are you really that dense.
Are you really CaptainObvious dressed as JPaul?

Are you really Finderofmisunderstandings when you should be Therewasnone?

[j2k4]

Oh.

Care to comment on any of this?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168829,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168648,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168591,00.html

There's much, much, more where that came from...

The Real Oil-for-Food Scam
Last year, right-wingers in Congress began kicking up a fuss about how the United Nations had allegedly allowed Saddam Hussein to rake in $10 billion in illegal cash through the Oil for Food program. Headlines screamed scandal. New York Times’ columnist William Safire referred to the alleged U.N. con game as “the richest rip-off in world history.”

But those who knew how the program had been set up and run – and under whose watch – were not swayed.

The initial accusations were based on a General Accounting Office report released in April 2004 and were later bolstered by a more detailed report commissioned by the CIA.

According to the GAO, Hussein smuggled $6 billion worth of oil out of Iraq – most of it through the Persian Gulf. Yet the U.N. fleet charged with intercepting any such smugglers was under direct command of American officers, and consisted overwhelmingly of U.S. Navy ships. In 2001, for example, 90 of its vessels belonged to the United States, while Britain contributed only four, Joy Gordon wrote in a December article for Harper’s magazine.

Most of the oil that left Iraq by land did so through Jordan and Turkey – with the approval of the United States. The first Bush administration informally exempted Jordan from the ban on purchasing Iraqi oil – an arrangement that provided Hussein with $4.4 billion over 10 years, according to the CIA’s own findings. The United States later allowed Iraq to leak another $710 million worth of oil through Turkey – “all while U.S. planes enforcing no-fly zones flew overhead,” Gordon wrote.

Scott Ritter, a U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq during the first six years of economic sanctions against the country, unearthed yet another scam: The United States allegedly allowed an oil company run by Russian foreign minister Yevgeny Primakov’s sister to purchase cheap oil from Iraq and resell it to U.S. companies at market value – purportedly earning Hussein “hundreds of millions” more.

“It has been estimated that 80 percent of the oil illegally smuggled out of Iraq under ‘oil for food’ ended up in the United States,” Ritter wrote in the U.K. Independent

sores: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0908-05.htm


What bearing has this got, Dave?

Did you read any of the linked articles?

Rat-

Does this mean I've been out-argued again? :dry:

[GepperRankins]

The Real Oil-for-Food Scam
Last year, right-wingers in Congress began kicking up a fuss about how the United Nations had allegedly allowed Saddam Hussein to rake in $10 billion in illegal cash through the Oil for Food program. Headlines screamed scandal. New York Times’ columnist William Safire referred to the alleged U.N. con game as “the richest rip-off in world history.”

But those who knew how the program had been set up and run – and under whose watch – were not swayed.

The initial accusations were based on a General Accounting Office report released in April 2004 and were later bolstered by a more detailed report commissioned by the CIA.

According to the GAO, Hussein smuggled $6 billion worth of oil out of Iraq – most of it through the Persian Gulf. Yet the U.N. fleet charged with intercepting any such smugglers was under direct command of American officers, and consisted overwhelmingly of U.S. Navy ships. In 2001, for example, 90 of its vessels belonged to the United States, while Britain contributed only four, Joy Gordon wrote in a December article for Harper’s magazine.

Most of the oil that left Iraq by land did so through Jordan and Turkey – with the approval of the United States. The first Bush administration informally exempted Jordan from the ban on purchasing Iraqi oil – an arrangement that provided Hussein with $4.4 billion over 10 years, according to the CIA’s own findings. The United States later allowed Iraq to leak another $710 million worth of oil through Turkey – “all while U.S. planes enforcing no-fly zones flew overhead,” Gordon wrote.

Scott Ritter, a U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq during the first six years of economic sanctions against the country, unearthed yet another scam: The United States allegedly allowed an oil company run by Russian foreign minister Yevgeny Primakov’s sister to purchase cheap oil from Iraq and resell it to U.S. companies at market value – purportedly earning Hussein “hundreds of millions” more.

“It has been estimated that 80 percent of the oil illegally smuggled out of Iraq under ‘oil for food’ ended up in the United States,” Ritter wrote in the U.K. Independent

sores: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0908-05.htm


What bearing has this got, Dave?

Did you read any of the linked articles?

Rat-

Does this mean I've been out-argued again? :dry:
yeah and yeah. the oil-for-food thing is all enigineered in your media to make the UN look corrupt and bad and stuff. if you look deeper you'll realise it was the US that had the power to nip this in the bud, in fact they were pretty much the only people who had power to do anything. it turns out the US were the overseers and allowed it to happen

[Santa]

Hurricane Caterina is a natural disaster
yet so easily it has become political
who , why, when
nature is not political nor cultural aka man-made and so easily becomes religious
it was not an effect of terrorist threat, wmdzz, nor lack of sleep due to neeeed to feed the baby
A Hurricanne rolled over southern us.
it has efffects




recupriation is happening.

[Rat Faced]

I get it exactly.

This is the third time in this thread that you've accused me of criticising the US. I've done no such thing, I've criticised you, but you probably think they are synonymous. Now you accuse me of ignoring what happens at the UN. Again, I've done no such thing. Unlike you, I waited for the outcome of the investigation.

I've done none of the things you accuse me of, a typical ploy by those who wish to divert attention from their own behaviour.

You criticised the UN and its head at a time when little information had been revealed and while an investigation was ongoing, actions which echoed those of many in the GOP. When I suggest you should simply be consistent you accuse me of making things up.

Frankly, if you can't even be consistent it lends weight to the argument that your opinions are worthless.

Oh.

Care to comment on any of this?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168829,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168648,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168591,00.html

There's much, much, more where that came from...

That report also criticised all the members of the Security Council, including the USA ad UK... funny how Fox doesnt mention that. :rolleyes:

[j2k4]

sores: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0908-05.htm


What bearing has this got, Dave?

Did you read any of the linked articles?

Rat-

Does this mean I've been out-argued again? :dry:
yeah and yeah. the oil-for-food thing is all enigineered in your media to make the UN look corrupt and bad and stuff. if you look deeper you'll realise it was the US that had the power to nip this in the bud, in fact they were pretty much the only people who had power to do anything. it turns out the US were the overseers and allowed it to happen


Ah-then as a fan of the U.N., and a fan of such propaganda, you ought to know that you are pissing into a headwind.

If the U.S. isn't inclined to cooperate overtly with the U.N., why do we bother with it at all?

Your supposition is beyond laughable and makes no sense whatsoever.

It's a good thing this cyber-tripe is free; you'd soon become an advocate of capitalism, I think... :lol:

[j2k4]

Oh.

Care to comment on any of this?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168829,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168648,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168591,00.html

There's much, much, more where that came from...

That report also criticised all the members of the Security Council, including the USA ad UK... funny how Fox doesnt mention that. :rolleyes:

The report mentioned that while Annan and his female second had full knowledge of the nefarious activity, they willfully kept this information from the Security Council, Rat.

Perhaps you missed this in the report; it would seem to be at odds with your stance vis-a vis Fox.

[GepperRankins]

Hurricane Caterina is a natural disaster
yet so easily it has become political
who , why, when
nature is not political nor cultural aka man-made and so easily becomes religious
it was not an effect of terrorist threat, wmdzz, nor lack of sleep due to neeeed to feed the baby
A Hurricanne rolled over southern us.
it has efffects




recupriation is happening.
the republicans cut funding needed for fixing the levees, presumably it was local government that sold out the marshland that acted as a natural buffer and there was no realistic evacuation plan.

random fact: did you know that a hurricane hit cuba in 2004 destroying 20'000 homes? not one life was lost because the evil cuban government managed to evacuate 1.5 million people that were on it's course

[lynx]

Nice one, J2, you've almost managed to turn this into an argument about the UN.

But I'll stop you right there and ask you to apply your standards to the US government.

And this time I'll ask you flat out.

Will you apply the same standards?

Or be branded a hypocrite?

[Rat Faced]

That report also criticised all the members of the Security Council, including the USA ad UK... funny how Fox doesnt mention that. :rolleyes:

The report mentioned that while Annan and his female second had full knowledge of the nefarious activity, they willfully kept this information from the Security Council, Rat.

Perhaps you missed this in the report; it would seem to be at odds with your stance vis-a vis Fox.

The report also stated quite clearly that despite any corruption, the blame for which was spread equally amongst nations (and remember that most of the oil did actually end up in the US, and Bush is implicated in the scandal now), was a success.

If you wish to commend the reports findings, then lets commend all of them please.. say after me now... "Oil for Food was a success", bet you'd hate that :P

[peat moss]

First of many heads to roll Michael Brown .


Beseiged FEMA head removed from Katrina relief:

http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nN09355125&imageid=top-news-view-2005-09-09-181930-eRPPISA%5B8%5D.jpg&cap=FEMA%20Secretary%20Michael%20Brown%20at%20a%20news%20conference%20earlier%20this%20week.%20Reuters%20Photo.

[j2k4]

the republicans cut funding needed for fixing the levees...

If you actually knew how to google, you'd be able to find out that the Democrats blocked federal appropriations and Republican bills to fix/upgrade the levees, Dave-they objected to it as irresponsible spending, sponsored by the Republicans. ;)

[j2k4]

Nice one, J2, you've almost managed to turn this into an argument about the UN.

But I'll stop you right there and ask you to apply your standards to the US government.

And this time I'll ask you flat out.

Will you apply the same standards?

What standards?

Demanding Bush's head on a platter?

Sure.

If it is discovered he had the depth of complicity and guilty knowledge Annan has?

In a fucking heartbeat, pal.

I don't know that Bush even prospectively profited from Katrina, though; I don't see his opportunity-I'm sure you can come up with something damning, though.

Or be branded a hypocrite?

You aren't capable of branding me in any way, lynx, so drop the rhetoric. :dry:

Besides, you don't do "imperious" as well as I do. ;)

[j2k4]

First of many heads to roll Michael Brown .


Beseiged FEMA head removed from Katrina relief:

http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nN09355125&imageid=top-news-view-2005-09-09-181930-eRPPISA%5B8%5D.jpg&cap=FEMA%20Secretary%20Michael%20Brown%20at%20a%20news%20conference%20earlier%20this%20week.%20Reuters%20Photo.

Well done, but it's not enough-

BUSH OR BUST!!! :dry:

[peat moss]

I sure like ro see this tho :



When asked where Brown fit into the chain of command,Scott McClellan said: "Well, there's an organizational chart and I'll be happy to get that to you or DHS could as well."

[Cheese]

Barbara Bush needs to be drowned.

[j2k4]

Barbara Bush needs to be drowned.

Yes, for her part in the mismanagement of the relief effort.

Or just because she's Dubya's mom?

[Cheese]

Barbara Bush needs to be drowned.

Yes, for her part in the mismanagement of the relief effort.

Or just because she's Dubya's mom?

I'm pretty sure she had nothing to do with the mismanagement of the relief. And being a fuckwit's mom isn't a crime.

Can I have some other reasons to choose from before I drown her scrawny neck?

[GepperRankins]

Yes, for her part in the mismanagement of the relief effort.

Or just because she's Dubya's mom?

I'm pretty sure she had nothing to do with the mismanagement of the relief. And being a fuckwit's mom isn't a crime.

Can I have some other options before I drown her scrawny neck?
she said it's ok for the refugees because they're poor anyway?

[Everose]

Uh oh.....I must have missed something. What did Barbara do?

Hmmm. I better go find this.


Dang, that woman is so out there with her thoughts, no?


All told, she was my favorite First Lady. Always out there.....no wondering what she thought. And even the President wasn't spared if she thought he was wrong.

[GepperRankins]

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=20080

[Cheese]

Uh oh.....I must have missed something. What did Barbara do?

Hmmm. I better go find this.

Gave birth to George Bush?

Joke.

[peat moss]

What was she thinking anyway ? Who does she think she is , Prince Philip ?



Joke too . Can't help but think of him putting his foot in his mouth . :D

[Cheese]

What was she thinking anyway ? Who does she think she is , Prince Philip ?

I'd be quite happy to do a two-for-one deal if a Prince Philip drowning will clinch the deal ;)

[Busyman]

Fact is it's very possible that the way you and that bitch ass CO tech look at it, the Prez might look at it and see from the news the most of the folk there don't have pink toes. Quite possible.

...or better yet it seems, it's very possible the way that Barbara Bush looks at it............

It seems G W Bush is a crony to a fault also. Why would you praise someone for a job badly done?

.sdrawkcab-ssa si nam ehT

[peat moss]

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=20080



I like the what me worry reference , Elfred E Bush , classic .

[Everose]

Busy, I found the comment she made. What else has she done?

[peat moss]

Busy, I found the comment she made. What else has she done?



Not shown much compassion at this point and should learn to keep her mouth shut .

[JunkBarMan]

If anyone is reading this right now, NBC has a special on about the Hurricane and everything that went wrong.

[Busyman]

Busy, I found the comment she made. What else has she done?



Not shown much compassion at this point and should learn to keep her mouth shut .
Wtf?!!!

They should grateful that their homes have been upgraded. :dry:

[Busyman]

If anyone is reading this right now, NBC has a special on about the Hurricane and everything that went wrong.
Excellent. Get back to us on what happened on the show. I'ma watch Stargate SG-1. I'm runnin' outta TIVO space.

[peat moss]

What was she thinking anyway ? Who does she think she is , Prince Philip ?

I'd be quite happy to do a two-for-one deal if a Prince Philip drowning will clinch the deal ;)



Deal, only if the Americans throw in Richard Simmons . Heard his weepy Louisiana is my other mother speech . Made me sick .

[peat moss]

Found some hope in this news, not a very polished site but the words ring true and liked
some of the positive things ,



http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=51180&id=2005090923040001147215

[Everose]

Well, Barbara Bush was one of my favorite First Ladies. :looksaroundwaitingfortheboomtofallonmyheadsmileyhere:

An incredible optimist, and you never have to wonder what she was thinking. Has always reminded me a bit of 'Maxine.' Or visa versa. ;-)

To me, she was more or less trying to give those affected hope. Hope is pretty lacking right now.

[DanB]

Busy, I found the comment she made. What else has she done?

Told the poor a nd homeless that they are now beter off than they were before. i mean wtf :blink: :blink:

[Everose]

I don't know DanB. I don't think it justifies drowning until we know her intent.

A lot of people say things that don't come across as they really mean them to. The woman has never been tactful. I would have liked it better if she had said "I hope" before her statement. I honestly think that is how she intended it.

[peat moss]

Well mabye she needs a speach writer not the time to be caught shooting her mouth off with the world watching . She comes across as an senile uncaring old woman and I'm sure she will be reined in . It just throws gas n the fire .

[GepperRankins]

I don't know DanB. I don't think it justifies drowning until we know her intent.

A lot of people say things that don't come across as they really mean them to. The woman has never been tactful. I would have liked it better if she had said "I hope" before her statement. I honestly think that is how she intended it.
how about we leave her in a tree above chest deep water full of sewage for five days, then we'll see what happens

[Everose]

To not care is not something I would associate with this woman. To stomp the heck over those who don't care is something I would expect.

Only relaying what I know of her.

[peat moss]

To not care is not something I would associate with this woman. To stomp the heck over those who don't care is something I would expect.

Only relaying what I know of her.


You would know better than us because you see more of her good deeds ,all we heard and saw was a mental lapse ? One can't be judged on one mistake made in public ...............

[DanB]

I don't know DanB. I don't think it justifies drowning until we know her intent.

A lot of people say things that don't come across as they really mean them to. The woman has never been tactful. I would have liked it better if she had said "I hope" before her statement. I honestly think that is how she intended it.
how about we leave her in a tree above chest deep water full of sewage for five days, then we'll see what happens

yah :01: :01: :01: :01: :01: :01: :01: :01: :01: :01:

[GepperRankins]

To not care is not something I would associate with this woman. To stomp the heck over those who don't care is something I would expect.

Only relaying what I know of her.


You would know better than us because you see more of her good deeds ,all we heard and saw was a mental lapse ? One can't be judged on one mistake made in public ...............
two. two mental lapses

http://www.londonspeakerbureau.co.uk/media/speakerPics/Bush+Snr112.jpg

[Cheese]

To not care is not something I would associate with this woman. To stomp the heck over those who don't care is something I would expect.

Only relaying what I know of her.


You would know better than us because you see more of her good deeds ,all we heard and saw was a mental lapse ? One can't be judged on one mistake made in public ...............

Her "beautiful mind" comment is pretty classic as well.

[Cheese]

Try typing "failure" into Google.

For those that can't type here's a link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=failure&btnG=Google+Search

For those that can't click links here's a picture:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/09/google_bush.gif

Edit: Second place is quite the funny as well.






Got the above from The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/09/google_bush_search/) as well as this picture:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/09/bush_caption.jpg

[j2k4]

Boy, I can't wait for a democrat President.

The Drawing Room will be a mighty quiet place... :dry:

[Cheese]

Boy, I can't wait for a democrat President.

The Drawing Room will be a mighty quiet place... :dry:

I imagine the gloating when the Republicans lose would keep the place ticking over for a while.

[GepperRankins]

Boy, I can't wait for a democrat President.

The Drawing Room will be a mighty quiet place... :dry:
you'll be able to complain about budget surpluses and new jobs :thumbsup:

[Everose]

Funny that. I don't remember a lot of gloating by the Republicans when one won this time, just a few simple statements. I do remember a whole lot of shock, grief, disbelief, venting, anger, hate and rage released here though, and not only addressed at American's that voted for the man. Funny that. For members who are so quit to claim they are not bigots, biased or racists.....what would be the term for painting all citizens of a nation with one brush, so to speak?

So I am finding myself agreeing with you Cheese. :huh:

[manker]

what would be the term for painting all citizens of a nation with one brush, so to speak?Stupid.

[Cheese]

Funny that. I don't remember a lot of gloating by the Republicans when one won this time, just a few simple statements. I do remember a whole lot of shock, grief, disbelief, venting, anger, hate and rage released here though, and not only addressed at American's that voted for the man. Funny that. For members who are so quit to claim they are not bigots, biased or racists.....what would be the term for painting all citizens of a nation with one brush, so to speak?

So I am finding myself agreeing with you Cheese. :huh:

:happy:

[Everose]

what would be the term for painting all citizens of a nation with one brush, so to speak?Stupid.

:lol: Well, agreed. But is there a better word, a more tactful one?

[manker]

Stupid.

:lol: Well, agreed. But is there a better word, a more tactful one?Probably :D


But why dress up idiocy.

[Santa]

what are they doing with the dogs and cats etc which seem to be roaming the streets?

[manker]

what are they doing with the dogs and cats etc which seem to be roaming the streets?
Unless they are rabid and a danger to humans, who cares.

[Everose]

Animal Rescue (http://www.hsus.org/)

Have been watching news reports kind of like this, 100%

[Santa]

most of them are pets, who have been left behind due to urgency
i hope their owners care

[Everose]

what are they doing with the dogs and cats etc which seem to be roaming the streets?
Unless they are rabid and a danger to humans, who cares.


Probably a lot of owners who have lost too much as is, Manker.....but you are right in that concentration on rescuing humans should come first.

[Santa]

Animal Rescue (http://www.hsus.org/)

Have been watching news reports kind of like this, 100%


nice Everose - was worried they were simply killing them off :cry:

@manker - one flood and animals instantly become rabid?

[Everose]

Have a wonderful friend who owned a home in Kenner, LA. He did take his family and pet and leave at the storms upgrading.

He had a home and a good job there where he worked hard for everything he earned. He has gone back and retrieved what little he can from his home. His job is gone. They are relocating to the Austin, Texas area where they will stay with his brother until other arrangements can be made. He has flood insurance (hard to get a mortgage in a floodplain area without this insurace) and will start the lengthy NFIP procedures to file an insurance claim.

I know he is relieved he and his family are alive and safe.

I know he is much more fortunate than some of the others affected by this disaster. I know he knows it, too, and feels other's losses and the loss of others deeply.

His sister tells me to not expect him to contact anyone soon. She says they are suffering from much shock and depair and it will be some time before they can come to terms with things enough to speak about the loss of their world as they knew it. :cry:

I want to hug them and make it all better. It hurts not to be able to help with the pain.

[manker]

@manker - one flood and animals instantly become rabid?Of course not. Why would you say such a thing.

[Rat Faced]

I still have trouble picturing how anyone that has raised the number in poverty in his country by 17%, run up a record deficit on the back of a surplus and took his country into 2 unnecessary wars..all in less than 6 years can be classed as successful ...

..unless they class succesful as "Im better off personally" that is... :rolleyes:


BTW... that guy who was fired.. isnt he the one that Bush was on TV with last week?

Bush: "Id like to shake your hand, your doing one heck of a job!"

[brotherdoobie]

:lol: Well, agreed. But is there a better word, a more tactful one?Probably :D


But why dress up idiocy.

For the ball?

Peace bd

[manker]

Unless they are rabid and a danger to humans, who cares.


Probably a lot of owners who have lost too much as is, Manker.....but you are right in that concentration on rescuing humans should come first.As you say, the cares of the people who still have relatives missing, and indeed the welfare of folk who may still be stuck in attics, come before the cares of pet owners who've lost Tiddles or Rover.

I'm really not that bothered about the pets at this juncture.

[Rat Faced]

The report mentioned that while Annan and his female second had full knowledge of the nefarious activity, they willfully kept this information from the Security Council, Rat.

Perhaps you missed this in the report; it would seem to be at odds with your stance vis-a vis Fox.

The report also stated quite clearly that despite any corruption, the blame for which was spread equally amongst nations (and remember that most of the oil did actually end up in the US, and Bush is implicated in the scandal now), was a success.

If you wish to commend the reports findings, then lets commend all of them please.. say after me now... "Oil for Food was a success", bet you'd hate that :P


If you wish to commend the reports findings, then lets commend all of them please.. say after me now... "Oil for Food was a success", bet you'd hate that

Come on J2, im waiting here....

[manker]

Probably :D


But why dress up idiocy.

For the ball?

Peace bd:lol:

Undressing idiocy is something I've done many times but I absolutely refuse to dress it up :snooty:

[Rat Faced]

Wont you get fired for going into work naked? :unsure:

[GepperRankins]

Probably a lot of owners who have lost too much as is, Manker.....but you are right in that concentration on rescuing humans should come first.As you say, the cares of the people who still have relatives missing, and indeed the welfare of folk who may still be stuck in attics, come before the cares of pet owners who've lost Tiddles or Rover.

I'm really not that bothered about the pets at this juncture.
dogs are resourceful and are used to eating nasty shit. if the city repopulates soon hopefully the strays will find their way to their owners :unsure:

[Busyman]

Undressing idiocy is something I've done many times but I absolutely refuse to dress it up Wont you get fired for going into work naked? :unsure:
Excellent!!! :lol: :lol:
Absolutely hilarious!!!

[GepperRankins]

manker is some kind of classy escort?

[manker]

Wont you get fired for going into work naked? :unsure:You need to have a boss before you can get fired.

[manker]

manker is some kind of classy escort?Why classy?

Altho' you're near the mark :naughty:

[Rat Faced]

Wont you get fired for going into work naked? :unsure:You need to have a boss before you can get fired.

I thought you were married already? :unsure:

[manker]

You need to have a boss before you can get fired.

I thought you were married already? :unsure:Ohhh, you were doing well.

No, I'm not married.

[Busyman]

Boy, I can't wait for a democrat President.

The Drawing Room will be a mighty quiet place... :dry:
You don't get it do you?

If a Democratic President did these same things, people across the sea would feel the same way.

Clinton's 8 years in office were much more, how should I say it....palatable by leaps and bounds. He was a dumbass for getting his dick sucked and lying about it but......many off us common folk, how should I say it......understood. :rolleyes:

[Rat Faced]

He was also in the pocket of the American Car Makers, bombed the fuck out of Afganistan for no particular reason other than take attention off his dick...

He was a Hedonist that was as crooked as a 3 dollar Bill.

There were some achievements on his watch though, which you refuse to acknowledge.

The world does, as these achievements affected just about everyone, mostly in a positive manner.


Should he have been impeached? Yes, but not for what he was impeached for, getting his Dick sucked is his business, not the US publics. Between him and his wife.

Shame that you didnt impeach him for the stuff that mattered and were plain illegal. That would have opened the door onto the "perks" of your administrative system and stopped everyone else getting kickbacks though, so you didnt.

Clinton though, at least kissed you while he was shafting you...

[brotherdoobie]

He was also in the pocket of the American Car Makers, bombed the fuck out of Afganistan for no particular reason other than take attention off his dick...

He was a Hedonist that was as crooked as a 3 dollar Bill.

There were some achievements on his watch though, which you refuse to acknowledge.

The world does, as these achievements affected just about everyone, mostly in a positive manner.


Should he have been impeached? Yes, but not for what he was impeached for, getting his Dick sucked is his business, not the US publics. Between him and his wife.

Shame that you didnt impeach him for the stuff that mattered and were plain illegal. That would have opened the door onto the "perks" of your administrative system and stopped everyone else getting kickbacks though, so you didnt.

Clinton though, at least kissed you while he was shafting you...

Paul, Why your obsession with American Politics? I follow the issues
somewhat, enough to stay informed. I also like to stay abreast world
issues. Yet, I know very little of British politics.

I'm just currious. It's not a critique.

You honestly don't believe that perks and kickbacks can be stopped,in any
administration...Do you?

The greasing of wheels is timeless.

Peace bd

[j2k4]

The report also stated quite clearly that despite any corruption, the blame for which was spread equally amongst nations (and remember that most of the oil did actually end up in the US, and Bush is implicated in the scandal now), was a success.

If you wish to commend the reports findings, then lets commend all of them please.. say after me now... "Oil for Food was a success", bet you'd hate that :P


If you wish to commend the reports findings, then lets commend all of them please.. say after me now... "Oil for Food was a success", bet you'd hate that

Come on J2, im waiting here....


For what?

Your obsession with Bush precludes noting that if Bush presided while the Oil-for-Food fiasco was taking place, he would have been stepping into Clinton's shoes as re: stewardship of that situation, because that is when it started...you seem, however, to believe Clinton's only negative was an Oval Office hummer, about which none of the hoi polloi have entree to opine.

In all other regards, Clinton seems to have been your kind of guy, as you've not mentioned this very salient fact, which, by the way, amounts to the same petard as the Halliburton one, which was heartily initiated by Clinton.

As to whether or not the Iraqis got fed, watered and medicated by virtue of Oil-for-Food, how well they made out was a relative thing, given that we now know how well Saddam (and a few well-chosen U.N. flunkies and figureheads) made out, too, the fact of which doesn't seem to bother you either, so eager are you to hang the whole thing on Bush, or at least mitigate the blame-worthiness of others by including him in the bargain.

I would think a fair-minded person should be outraged that Saddam lined his pockets to tha Iraqis' detriment, by virtue of a program meant to regulate his financial viability and care for his people, administered by the U.N.-not the U.S.

I've heard more outrage from this board, in this single thread, about poorly-chosen but off-the-cuff remarks made by the President's mother than I have about Oil-for-Food in the entire history of that issue... :dry:

[GepperRankins]

If you wish to commend the reports findings, then lets commend all of them please.. say after me now... "Oil for Food was a success", bet you'd hate that

Come on J2, im waiting here....


For what?

Your obsession with Bush precludes noting that if Bush presided while the Oil-for-Food fiasco was taking place, he would have been stepping into Clinton's shoes as re: stewardship of that situation, because that is when it started...you seem, however, to believe Clinton's only negative was an Oval Office hummer, about which none of the hoi polloi have entree to opine.

In all other regards, Clinton seems to have been your kind of guy, as you've not mentioned this very salient fact, which, by the way, amounts to the same petard as the Halliburton one, which was heartily initiated by Clinton.

As to whether or not the Iraqis got fed, watered and medicated by virtue of Oil-for-Food, how well they made out was a relative thing, given that we now know how well Saddam (and a few well-chosen U.N. flunkies and figureheads) made out, too, the fact of which doesn't seem to bother you either, so eager are you to hang the whole thing on Bush, or at least mitigate the blame-worthiness of others by including him in the bargain.

I would think a fair-minded person should be outraged that Saddam lined his pockets to tha Iraqis' detriment, by virtue of a program meant to regulate his financial viability and care for his people, administered by the U.N.-not the U.S.

I've heard more outrage from this board, in this single thread, about poorly-chosen but off-the-cuff remarks made by the President's mother than I have about Oil-for-Food in the entire history of that issue... :dry:
i made a comment, apparently educating oneself is bad and prejudice is good now though :(

[Santa]

when did a hurricane become political?
where can i vote for her?

[GepperRankins]

when did a hurricane become political?
where can i vote for her?
don't bother. she blows :dry:

[Busyman]

He was also in the pocket of the American Car Makers, bombed the fuck out of Afganistan for no particular reason other than take attention off his dick...

He was a Hedonist that was as crooked as a 3 dollar Bill.

There were some achievements on his watch though, which you refuse to acknowledge.

The world does, as these achievements affected just about everyone, mostly in a positive manner.


Should he have been impeached? Yes, but not for what he was impeached for, getting his Dick sucked is his business, not the US publics. Between him and his wife.

Shame that you didnt impeach him for the stuff that mattered and were plain illegal. That would have opened the door onto the "perks" of your administrative system and stopped everyone else getting kickbacks though, so you didnt.

Clinton though, at least kissed you while he was shafting you...
Fuck are you talking about....refuse to acknowledge?

I have to say that in your quest to talk about Clinton to, in weird way, appease j2, you did a shit job. I mean bringing up the "perks" of our administrative system when these "perks" exist in yours is...well let's just say your system ain't near perfect either and I'm sure you bend over alot. :dry:

The main thing that pissed me off with him was "wagging the dog" and I thought it was despicable.

Shame we don't talk British politics as much. Fact is, we don't bother 'cause we're too concerned with our own.

Most Presidents make fuck all difference in my day-to-day so please explain how I was shafted by Clinton...explain it to all of us. :ermm:

[DanB]

Clinton > Bush

[brotherdoobie]

Clinton > Bush

Agreed.

Peace bd

[j2k4]

Clinton > Bush

How so?

Seriously...

[j2k4]

Come on J2, im waiting here....


For what?

Your obsession with Bush precludes noting that if Bush presided while the Oil-for-Food fiasco was taking place, he would have been stepping into Clinton's shoes as re: stewardship of that situation, because that is when it started...you seem, however, to believe Clinton's only negative was an Oval Office hummer, about which none of the hoi polloi have entree to opine.

In all other regards, Clinton seems to have been your kind of guy, as you've not mentioned this very salient fact, which, by the way, amounts to the same petard as the Halliburton one, which was heartily initiated by Clinton.

As to whether or not the Iraqis got fed, watered and medicated by virtue of Oil-for-Food, how well they made out was a relative thing, given that we now know how well Saddam (and a few well-chosen U.N. flunkies and figureheads) made out, too, the fact of which doesn't seem to bother you either, so eager are you to hang the whole thing on Bush, or at least mitigate the blame-worthiness of others by including him in the bargain.

I would think a fair-minded person should be outraged that Saddam lined his pockets to tha Iraqis' detriment, by virtue of a program meant to regulate his financial viability and care for his people, administered by the U.N.-not the U.S.

I've heard more outrage from this board, in this single thread, about poorly-chosen but off-the-cuff remarks made by the President's mother than I have about Oil-for-Food in the entire history of that issue... :dry:
i made a comment, apparently educating oneself is bad and prejudice is good now though :(

You've totally lost me here, Dave...

[Busyman]

Clinton > Bush

How so?

Seriously...
Please don't...you first. :dry:

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=82021&page=1&pp=10

[GepperRankins]

j2k4. you constantly criticize me for "googling" for information. to be honest i hardly ever google. my main sources are wikipedia, BBC and GNN.tv

i am aware GNN is a little, err biased and wikipedia is susceptable to errors - on the subject of american poilitics i doubt a mistake will stay up for five minutes though


here's a little CnP

The economy

During Clinton's tenure, the U.S. enjoyed continuous economic expansion, reductions in unemployment, and growing wealth through a massive rise in the stock market. The economic boom ended shortly after his term ended, possibly indicative of a stock market bubble; Although the reasons for the expansion are continually debated, Clinton proudly pointed to a number of economic accomplishments, including:

* More than 22 million new jobs
* Homeownership rate increase from 64.0% to 67.5%
* Lowest unemployment in 30 years
* Higher incomes at all levels
* Largest budget deficit in American history converted to the largest surplus of over $200 billion
* Lowest government spending as a percentage of GDP since 1974 [5]
* Higher stock ownership by families than ever before

The reasons for this growth are hotly debated, but many cite his 1993 tax increase which is generally acknowledged to have reduced the deficit, which in turn lowered interest rates, which spured comsumption and consumer spending. Alan Greenspan supported this plan, which was approved by Congress without one Republican vote [6]. His critics credit solely Alan Greenspan, the Republican Congress' 1995 spending cuts, the Contract with America initiatives, or even Ronald Reagan's 1981 tax cut during the 1980's.[7]


so that's the educating oneself bit sorted.



Those who deem non-judgementalism a desirable quality are the most judgemental and least-tolerant people I know, and many/most here on the board give lip-service to the idea, but aren't on a nodding basis with the spirit of it.

At least, by my judgement.
__________________
By what mental process do we conclude it is good to be non-judgemental?


i actually agree with you here. i just wanted to twist your words to make you sound both anti-enlightenment and pro-ignorance. the first bit i agree with, the second bit i twisted for the sake of contrast :P




busyman. :01:

[peat moss]

I don't see a problem with googlng for info , one can never see all the info in a newspaper or online forum and have used in the past to show an example or prove a point .

[manker]

How so?

Seriously...
Please don't...you first. :dry:

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=82021&page=1&pp=10
I am the only one in that thread to come up with a positive accomplishment :01:

[manker]

you seem, however, to believe Clinton's only negative was an Oval Office hummer
He (Clinton) was also in the pocket of the American Car Makers, bombed the fuck out of Afganistan for no particular reason other than take attention off his dick...

He was a Hedonist that was as crooked as a 3 dollar Bill.j2, your statement in another thread that you don't bother much with drivel would carry more weight if you refrained from writing it.

[j2k4]

How so?

Seriously...
Please don't...you first. :dry:

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=82021&page=1&pp=10

Why me first?

Didn't I ask first?

Besides, with my history here, I may have attended that thread of yours, but lack any evidence of having done so...

Anyway, let me throw some fuel on the fire by responding that while Clinton abided terrorism, Bush has confronted it, and I feel that to be a positive for Dubya, and a rather humongous negative for Clinton.

There you go.

I will await an answer to my question about the President who went about with his finger in the wind to test public opinion, and in another orifice for personal gratification, while he gave the technical farm to the Chinese, ignored North Korea, terrorism, and....should I go on?

No...please, your turn, I insist.

[whypikonme]

Anyway, let me throw some fuel on the fire by responding that while Clinton abided terrorism, Bush has confronted it, and I feel that to be a positive for Dubya, and a rather humongous negative for Clinton.


Boy, you really do live in a dream world, don't you? Have you forgotten the warnings handed to Bush by the outgoing Clinton administration? Have you forgotten how he chose to ignore them?

But pray tell us what Dubya has done about terrorism, apart from making the world a far more dangerous place?

[Rat Faced]

Anyway, let me throw some fuel on the fire by responding that while Clinton abided terrorism, Bush has confronted it, and I feel that to be a positive for Dubya, and a rather humongous negative for Clinton.

Actually, Clinton bombed the fuck out of Afganistan (for Al Queda) and Iraq too... so to say he "abided" it is a little bit incorrect. He also brought about peace in NI (almost), and the ME (almost).. it was the right wing government elected in Israel that fucked that one up.

Bush on the other hand, cannot point to one place on earth where its now a safer place, indeed, just about everywhere is more dangerous. 3x as many "Islamic" terrorists than ever before as an example, recruiting in countries that prior to Bush, didnt produce them.. great going. ;)

He didnt actually go to war, true... but then going to war has made the world a much more dangerous place, hasnt it?

Even the Whitehouse isnt even trying the old joke "We're winning the war on Terrorism" any more. Hell, instead of being in Iraq for as long as it takes, which is what they advertised... they are virtually forcing the Iraqi's to vote on an incomplete Constitution that no one agree's with,. so he can pullout of there ASAP.

The fact that there will almost certanly be a civil war in Iraq, means that Oil Prices will remain high for the forceable future whether the US are there or not... his Job is done now. You know, the Job that just about everyone now acknowledges started a long time before 911, something he hijacked for his own ends.


Clinton was a bastard, he was dishonest and he was a conman. Compared to Bush however, he was a fucking Angel.



Blaire will shortly be getting his payoff, with a £1million per year job with teh Carlyle group... hmmm, who runs that again? :rolleyes:

[whypikonme]

l think you're being a little unfair to Clinton RF, he was a breath of fresh air as far as l'm concerned. l'm not saying he was perfect, but hey ...

Blair too, he took Britain from a grey despondent nation and gave them hope. Going back and seeing the effect he had on the country after years of Thatcher and her ilk was startling. He did wrong over Iraq, and should have resigned, but you can't take away the good he did.

l think the main difference between Dubya and Blair being re-elected was that the US had an alternative government they could have voted for, Britain didn't.

[Rat Faced]

Fuck that...

His 1st day in office, he was saying that he would not stand for any financial scandals and that anyone that did wrong would be sacked.

How many have been fired, or resigned, for more than a couple of month?

They get caught, try and fight it out, resign (sometimes) and within 6 month they are back in the cabinet.

Thats not counting his own fiddles, like a certain property in Bristol etc...


Blaire is like Clinton though..

He is a totally dishonest creep, that somehow lands on his feet..and the administration has done some good. None of the policies that were great were his, he just happened to be in charge when they were implemented, and took the credit.

Gordon Brown deserves a lot more of the Credit, as does Mo Molam (RIP) and Robin Cook (another one that cant keep his pants on)... Blaire is just a sleazy Conman, and a Tory to boot... Im glad that people are waking up to the fact.

[whypikonme]

Whatever ... he's done a lot of good for the country, you can't deny that. Brown would be no better, and possibly a lot worse, my personal choice for the leadership would be Peter Hain.

[lynx]

Gordon Brown deserves a lot more of the Credit, as does Mo Molam (RIP) and Robin Cook (another one that cant keep his pants on)...I think you mean:

Robin Cook (RIP)...

[Rat Faced]

Didnt say i liked the guy, just that he deserved more of the credit than Blaire on some things.. but ok, if it makes you feel better;

Robin Cook (another areshole, but at least one that followed his consiance) RIP


On Topic:


KATRINA TIMELINE

Friday, August 26
GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: [Office of the Governor]

GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26. [DOD]

Saturday, August 27
5AM — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.” [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: “Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” [White House]

Sunday, August 28
2AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

7AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE [CNN]

MORNING — LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: “Forecasters Fear Levees Won’t Hold Katrina”: “Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow.” [Lafayette Daily Advertiser]

9:30 AM — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: “We’re facing the storm most of us have feared,” said Nagin. “This is going to be an unprecedented event.” [Times-Picayune]

4PM – NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, “Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. … At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. … Power outages will last for weeks. … Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.” [National Weather Service]

AFTERNOON — BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR: Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: “‘We were briefing them way before landfall. … It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped.’” [Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times]

LATE PM – REPORTS OF WATER TOPPLING OVER LEVEE: “Waves crashed atop the exercise path on the Lake Pontchartrain levee in Kenner early Monday as Katrina churned closer.” [Times-Picayune]

APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD [Times-Picayune]

Monday, August 29
7AM – KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

8AM – MAYOR NAGIN REPORTS THAT WATER IS FLOWING OVER LEVEE: “I’ve gotten reports this morning that there is already water coming over some of the levee systems. In the lower ninth ward, we’ve had one of our pumping stations to stop operating, so we will have significant flooding, it is just a matter of how much.” [NBC’s “Today Show”]

MORNING — BUSH CALLS SECRETARY CHERTOFF TO DISCUSS IMMIGRATION: “I spoke to Mike Chertoff today — he’s the head of the Department of Homeland Security. I knew people would want me to discuss this issue [immigration], so we got us an airplane on — a telephone on Air Force One, so I called him. I said, are you working with the governor? He said, you bet we are.” [White House]

MORNING – BUSH SHARES BIRTHDAY CAKE PHOTO-OP WITH SEN. JOHN MCCAIN [White House]

11AM — BUSH VISITS ARIZONA RESORT TO PROMOTE MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT: “This new bill I signed says, if you’re a senior and you like the way things are today, you’re in good shape, don’t change. But, by the way, there’s a lot of different options for you. And we’re here to talk about what that means to our seniors.” [White House]

LATE MORNING – LEVEE BREACHED: “A large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it connects to the brand new ‘hurricane proof’ Old Hammond Highway bridge, gave way late Monday morning in Bucktown after Katrina’s fiercest winds were well north.” [Times-Picayune]

11:30AM — MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY REQUESTS THAT DHS DISPATCH 1,000 EMPLOYEES TO REGION, GIVES THEM TWO DAYS TO ARRIVE: “Brown’s memo to Chertoff described Katrina as ‘this near catastrophic event’ but otherwise lacked any urgent language. The memo politely ended, ‘Thank you for your consideration in helping us to meet our responsibilities.’” [AP]

2PM — BUSH TRAVELS TO CALIFORNIA SENIOR CENTER TO DISCUSS MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT: “We’ve got some folks up here who are concerned about their Social Security or Medicare. Joan Geist is with us. … I could tell — she was looking at me when I first walked in the room to meet her, she was wondering whether or not old George W. is going to take away her Social Security check.” [White House]

9PM — RUMSFELD ATTENDS SAN DIEGO PADRES BASEBALL GAME: Rumsfeld “joined Padres President John Moores in the owner’s box…at Petco Park.” [Editor & Publisher]

Tuesday, August 30
9AM – BUSH SPEAKS ON IRAQ AT NAVAL BASE CORONADO [White House]

MIDDAY – CHERTOFF FINALLY BECOMES AWARE THAT LEVEE HAS FAILED: “It was on Tuesday that the levee–may have been overnight Monday to Tuesday–that the levee started to break. And it was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap and that essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city.” [Meet the Press, 9/4/05]

PENTAGON CLAIMS THERE ARE ENOUGH NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS IN REGION: “Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said the states have adequate National Guard units to handle the hurricane needs.” [WWL-TV]

MASS LOOTING REPORTED, SECURITY SHORTAGE CITED: “The looting is out of control. The French Quarter has been attacked,” Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. “We’re using exhausted, scarce police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have people on rooftops.” [AP]

U.S.S. BATAAN SITS OFF SHORE, VIRTUALLY UNUSED: “The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore. The Bataan rode out the storm and then followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents. But now the Bataan’s hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty.” [Chicago Tribune]

3PM – PRESIDENT BUSH PLAYS GUITAR WITH COUNTRY SINGER MARK WILLIS [AP]

BUSH RETURNS TO CRAWFORD FOR FINAL NIGHT OF VACATION [AP]

Wednesday, August 31
TENS OF THOUSANDS TRAPPED IN SUPERDOME; CONDITIONS DETERIORATE: “A 2-year-old girl slept in a pool of urine. Crack vials littered a restroom. Blood stained the walls next to vending machines smashed by teenagers. ‘We pee on the floor. We are like animals,’ said Taffany Smith, 25, as she cradled her 3-week-old son, Terry. … By Wednesday, it had degenerated into horror. … At least two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for. There is no sanitation. The stench is overwhelming.”" [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/05]

PRESIDENT BUSH FINALLY ORGANIZES TASK FORCE TO COORDINATE FEDERAL RESPONSE: Bush says on Tuesday he will “fly to Washington to begin work…with a task force that will coordinate the work of 14 federal agencies involved in the relief effort.” [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/31/national/nationalspecial/31response.html?pagewanted=1">New York Times, 8/31/05]

JEFFERSON PARISH EMERGENCY DIRECTOR SAYS FOOD AND WATER SUPPLY GONE: “Director Walter Maestri: FEMA and national agencies not delivering the help nearly as fast as it is needed.” [WWL-TV]

80,000 BELIEVED STRANDED IN NEW ORLEANS: Former Mayor Sidney Barthelemy “estimated 80,000 were trapped in the flooded city and urged President Bush to send more troops.” [Reuters]

3,000 STRANDED AT CONVENTION CENTER WITHOUT FOOD OR WATER: “With 3,000 or more evacuees stranded at the convention center — and with no apparent contingency plan or authority to deal with them — collecting a body was no one’s priority. … Some had been at the convention center since Tuesday morning but had received no food, water or instructions.” [Times-Picayune]

5PM — BUSH GIVES FIRST MAJOR ADDRESS ON KATRINA: “Nothing about the president’s demeanor… — which seemed casual to the point of carelessness — suggested that he understood the depth of the current crisis.” [New York Times]

8:00PM – CONDOLEEZZA RICE TAKES IN A BROADWAY SHOW: “On Wednesday night, Secretary Rice was booed by some audience members at ‘Spamalot!, the Monty Python musical at the Shubert, when the lights went up after the performance.” [New York Post, 9/2/05]

9PM — FEMA DIRECTOR BROWN CLAIMS SURPRISE OVER SIZE OF STORM: “I must say, this storm is much much bigger than anyone expected.” [CNN]

Thursday, September 1
8AM — BUSH CLAIMS NO ONE EXPECTED LEVEES TO BREAK: “I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees.” [Washington Post]

CONDOLEEZZA RICE VISITS U.S. OPEN: “Rice, [in New York] on three days’ vacation to shop and see the U.S. Open, hitting some balls with retired champ Monica Seles at the Indoor Tennis Club at Grand Central.” [New York Post]

STILL NO COMMAND AND CONTROL ESTABLISHED: Terry Ebbert, New Orleans Homeland Security Director: “This is a national emergency. This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can’t bail out the city of New Orleans.” [Fox News]

2PM — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES “DESPERATE SOS” TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: “This is a desperate SOS. Right now we are out of resources at the convention centre and don’t anticipate enough buses. We need buses. Currently the convention centre is unsanitary and unsafe and we’re running out of supplies.” [Guardian, 9/2/05]

2PM — MICHAEL BROWN CLAIMS NOT TO HAVE HEARD OF REPORTS OF VIOLENCE: “I’ve had no reports of unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you know, they’re banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I’ve had no reports of that.” [CNN]

NEW ORLEANS “DESCEND[S] INTO ANARCHY”: “Storm victims were raped and beaten, fights and fires broke out, corpses lay out in the open, and rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were shot at as flooded-out New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday. ‘This is a desperate SOS,’ the mayor said.” [AP]

CONDOLEEZZA RICE GOES SHOE SHOPPING: “Just moments ago at the Ferragamo on 5th Avenue, Condoleeza Rice was seen spending several thousands of dollars on some nice, new shoes (we’ve confirmed this, so her new heels will surely get coverage from the WaPo’s Robin Givhan). A fellow shopper, unable to fathom the absurdity of Rice’s timing, went up to the Secretary and reportedly shouted, ‘How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless!’” [Gawker]

MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY LEARNS OF EVACUEES IN CONVENTION CENTER: “We learned about that (Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need.” [CNN]

Friday, September 2
ROVE-LED CAMPAIGN TO BLAME LOCAL OFFICIALS BEGINS: “Under the command of President Bush’s two senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan…to contain the political damage from the administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina.” President Bush’s comments from the Rose Garden Friday morning formed “the start of this campaign.” [New York Times, 9/5/05]

9:35AM — BUSH PRAISES MICHAEL BROWN: “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job.” [White House, 9/2/05]

10 AM — PRESIDENT BUSH STAGES PHOTO-OP “BRIEFING”: Coast Guard helicopters and crew diverted to act as backdrop for President Bush’s photo-op.

BUSH VISIT GROUNDS FOOD AID: “Three tons of food ready for delivery by air to refugees in St. Bernard Parish and on Algiers Point sat on the Crescent City Connection bridge Friday afternoon as air traffic was halted because of President Bush’s visit to New Orleans, officials said.” [Times-Picayune]

LEVEE REPAIR WORK ORCHESTRATED FOR PRESIDENT’S VISIT: Sen. Mary Landrieu, 9/3: “Touring this critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment.” [Sen. Mary Landrieu]

BUSH USES 50 FIREFIGHTERS AS PROPS IN DISASTER AREA PHOTO-OP: A group of 1,000 firefighters convened in Atlanta to volunteer with the Katrina relief efforts. Of those, “a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew’s first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.” [Salt Lake Tribune; Reuters]

3PM — BUSH “SATISFIED WITH THE RESPONSE”: “I am satisfied with the response. I am not satisfied with all the results.” [AP]

Saturday, September 3
SENIOR BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL LIES TO WASHINGTON POST, CLAIMS GOV. BLANCO NEVER DECLARED STATE OF EMERGENCY: The Post reported in their Sunday edition “As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.” They were forced to issue a correction hours later. [Washington Post, 9/4/05]

9AM — BUSH BLAMES STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS: “[T]he magnitude of responding to a crisis over a disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities. The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need.” [White House, 9/3/05]

[Busyman]

Please don't...you first. :dry:

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=82021&page=1&pp=10

Why me first?

Didn't I ask first?

Besides, with my history here, I may have attended that thread of yours, but lack any evidence of having done so...

Anyway, let me throw some fuel on the fire by responding that while Clinton abided terrorism, Bush has confronted it, and I feel that to be a positive for Dubya, and a rather humongous negative for Clinton.

There you go.

I will await an answer to my question about the President who went about with his finger in the wind to test public opinion, and in another orifice for personal gratification, while he gave the technical farm to the Chinese, ignored North Korea, terrorism, and....should I go on?

No...please, your turn, I insist.
First off, confronting terrorism doesn't mean implementing shoddy airport procedures which include not screening checked-in luggage for bombs and making laws that circumvent the Constitution. Bush didn't have a choice but to confront it since the worst terrorist attack in our history happened on his watch. DUH :1eye: Is he doing it effectively, is the question. Unlike any of you on here, I see the results of alot of this "security" from working in our nation's capital and could write a book (but won't unless it's a paper to our government). I won't elaborate further.

Second off, nice try with the "my posts were deleted". However, they were not. You never attended such thread and that was almost a year ago. :dry:
As a matter of fact B Helto was the only conservative who provided an answer.

So please I insist....roughly........a year ago. :ermm:

[Rat Faced]

When i visited New York State last year, via Newark, the guy couldnt be arsed to switch on that machine that takes the fingerprints.

I didnt have the address where I was staying that night, so he just told me to put "Holiday Inn, Newark",then I promptly headed for Kingston....

As i dont have a criminal record anywhere, the fingerprints wouldnt have been any good for anything anyway... and anyone can say "Holliday Inn".



How much have y'all paid for this excellent security? :P

[Santa]

when in doubt sound convincing
first lady speaks about that "hurricanne"...
http://www.prisonplanet.com/What-is-The-Name-of-That-Hurricane.wmv

[peat moss]

when in doubt sound convincing
first lady speaks about that "hurricanne"...
http://www.prisonplanet.com/What-is-The-Name-of-That-Hurricane.wmv


Well at least she stood by her man . Can one imagine being in the spot light all the time your every move criticised ? Its why I always felt sorry for Diana and Big ear's two boys ,good work and pay if you can get it but you can't fart in public . :dry:

[lynx]

Barbara did a better job.

Her boy was in trouble, so she gave a speech which she knew would divert attention from him. :D

[Everose]

Barbara did a better job.

Her boy was in trouble, so she gave a speech which she knew would divert attention from him. :D


Odd that you thought of old Barb this way. I always thought of her as a woman that acted regardles of her husband. :P And quite frankly, the President was mostly the one she directed her barbs toward. :lol: