help with building a computer

[ApacNTS]

im planning on building a new system(for the first time) basically this computer is well beyond it's time, i want to make a pc that can play the upcoming game F.E.A.R.

im looking between ebay and newegg for pieces, but im not sure where to start. i need to know a good motherboard, but one that's not really expensive.

basically i need a computer that would end up with specs of:

cpu: 2.8ghz-3.0ghz pentium 4
ram: 512(1gb if cheap enough)
mobo: ???
vid card: 256mb (seen it on ebay for like 100)
harddrive: cheap 20 gig will work (cheapest on newegg was 80 for a 40gb i think)
dvdrw: pretty sure i'll get the $38 from newegg
case: ???

i lean toward intel more, for the reason that they are currently cheaper than amd, even tho many say amd is pwning intel in raw power. likewise i have read where these chips generate alot of heat and i'm not sure if my case would be a "coffin" to my setup.

my budget, well it's laughable, but with ebay i may just skim it out in time for F.E.A.R launch

any help is much appreciated, i dont know much about building computers so i'm sure school will be fun :-p

[Duffman]

Well best to start with is your budget, how much are you willing to spend.

Also the mb on the graphics card isn't very important compared to the clock speeds.

[Smith]

And you dont want to go with Intel for gaming, thats pure shite. You can build a nice AMD64 system for around 1500-1700 CAD :D

EDIT: And less ;)

[clocker]

i need to know a good motherboard, but one that's not really expensive.
... i dont know much about building computers so i'm sure school will be fun :-p
Lesson #1
"Good motherboard" and "not really expensive" cannot be used in the same sentence.

[ApacNTS]

heh i feared as much about the motherboard. my budget is about 350 at best by the end of october. now i'll go crawl under a rock cause im an outcast *hides* amd is hella pricy, i dont know how you guys get all that uber sweet gear.

[Spicker]

heh i feared as much about the motherboard. my budget is about 350 at best by the end of october. now i'll go crawl under a rock cause im an outcast *hides* amd is hella pricy, i dont know how you guys get all that uber sweet gear.
Why not get a AMD instead of a P4 :01:

[ApacNTS]

well currently on newegg the price of an amd 2.4ghz processor is around *checks* 300 just for the chip with no heatsink or fan/compound. whereas a p4 3gig chip+hs/fan is 177.50. :(

[JunkBarMan]

When I build my comps, first I take a look at whats coming on the market within the next year or two as far as games and see what requirements they have, and then I try to go past it to make sure I can enjoy the game to the fullest extent.

With that in mind I like to save myself some cash, and after some research and comparing some prices I come up with a number.
Let's just say for shits and giggles I figured it out to be $1000 US, and this was a pretty good gaming system that would last me until my much anticipated *new* game came out and beyond.
Hopefully, this system would last me until the next *new* game was out as well, about 2-3 years.

Ok, so you have your game in mind, you have your financial resources saved, now lets look at how you need to spend it all.

In building a system on a budget, theres going to be a little give and take, meaning your going to need to spend more in some areas and a little less in others.

Areas of importance, where you spend the most, are going to be your cpu, video card, ram, and motherboard. Basically in that order too.

Everywhere else, to a certain degree, you can cut corners with the costs.
Things like cases, harddrives, cd/dvd drives, and monitors can carry over from build to build. Not always, but chances are usually good.

My philosophy on the game market is; look at the box's requirements, then the suggested, and then I will go past that as far as I possibly can, to save myself from building another computer too soon for that next game.


ApacNTS:
From what I see you saying I can see a few things that raise my eyebrow a bit.

First thing, go with AMD. You will have better results in the long run, better performance, and in some cases cheaper costs.
If you can manage to somehow raise enough cash and get yourself into something with a Winchester, Venice or even a San Diego core, not only will you have lower temps(they run on lower volts, 1.4v or less), but you will have a good cpu that will last you about 2-3 years.
If you do go with AMD stick with the socket 939, its the way to go, ask anyone.

You can find some value ram for about $100 US for 1gb, anything lower then that(512mb) and you will lose performance for these new games coming out. Value ram isnt always the best, but when you're on a budget you get what you can.
Its pretty important not to cut yourself short in this area, otherwise you can create yourself a bottle neck.

I don't know much about Intel and their mobos, but a good AMD mobo can be found for about $90-125 US. Try to catch a sale, or free shipping. A little patience here goes a long ways in saving an extra 10-15 bucks to put towards that case or new hard drive.

What you are getting off eBay is a little fishy in my eyes. Ebay tends to be refurbished units, or off brands that no one wants anyways. Sometimes you find good deals if you look hard enough.
If it's used and came outta some rich boys comps that he's updating already, I guess that's ok. But otherwise I would just stick with Newegg.com or you local comp dealer.
You say you found a 256mb for $100, what are the specs on it, is it new, and what brand? Remember eBay doesn't necessarily have a return policy as it varies buy seller, so if you get something used you are taking a bigger risk.

What harddrive are you buying thats costing $80 for 40gb? Usually you can find ata133 for about .50$ per gig on the high end drives (200-300gb) and $1 per gig on the lower drives (40-80gb). I would stick with a bigger drive if you want to get more bang for your buck here.

Finally, you mention a dvd drive you saw on Newegg.com. I think Newegg.com is a great site to buy from and I would recommend buying all your parts there after some price comparisons with other sites and stores.
Just make sure you get yourself some name brand stuff, just so you don't have to go through the headache of RMA'ing you item. Newegg is good on service tho.

That's a pretty good rundown right there, maybe more information then you even wanted.

I would post names, specs, and models of everything you are planning on buying and see what other people have to say first about it before you make any decisions tho. Just to cover you butt. :P

[ApacNTS]

heh, oh you better believe i am, especially with my limited knowledge. best help comes from someone who knows good and bad. i also mistrust ebay, none of the processors had packaging except a few, just the bare chip.

the vid card i looked at was: http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-RADEON-9600XT-AGP-256MB-DDR-9600-XT-Video-Card-HOT_W0QQitemZ5232333590QQcategoryZ40158QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (old sale but guy has some similar still)

i misstyped the bit about the drive, it was 80gb for about 51, reasonable, but ebay had it for like 20....heh trying to cut corners man.

[JunkBarMan]

well currently on newegg the price of an amd 2.4ghz processor is around *checks* 300 just for the chip with no heatsink or fan/compound. whereas a p4 3gig chip+hs/fan is 177.50. :(

The AMD processor (www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103490) you are talking about will blow that Intel (www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116200) out of the water man. They aren't even in the same league.

The AMD is a mobile processor, its 64 bit, and its got better L1 cache.
This processor is more comparable to a 3.7 gig proc.

Edit: Take a look at this Comparable Amd Proc (www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103537#DetailSpecs)

Its even got a faster FSB, and its a Venice core(lower volts=lower temp).

You're not seeing AMD for what they offer, you are looking too much into the processors speeds and not what they can do. AMD runs on a different architecture and can achieve the results of an Intel but at slower speeds. That doesn't make them slower chips.
Don't get me wrong, Intel makes a very good chip. Just compare then correctly and you will see that AMD can be cheaper, and in this area you are talking about, they are cheaper.

[ApacNTS]

i see someone said he clocked at 2.8 easily. i didnt realize it was a mobile either, that would help explaint the price a bit. hmmm see the only problem is the processor would have to do atleast 2.8ghz, really i need it to do 3ghz, as you said games are quickly moving up and up the chain, 6months now brings entirely new things, where it used to take years.

weird how one game just hooked me into pc gaming, until now i never cared, played unreal tournament a couple of times, tried to play half life 1 on this,...i think that pushed me over the edge *laughs*

edit: another thing, i dont want to overclock, and if i bought all this then it lagged i'd just be screwed.

[JunkBarMan]

the vid card i looked at was: http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-RADEON-9600XT-AGP-256MB-DDR-9600-XT-Video-Card-HOT_W0QQitemZ5232333590QQcategoryZ40158QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (old sale but guy has some similar still)


Out of date card, but it would be servicable. I don't think it would play F.E.A.R. in a way that would make you happy. You would most likely have all the setting on the lowest possible and then you would just get by.

I haven't looked at the specs for F.E.A.R. just yet, still wrapped up in Battlefield 2, but I know this: I run an ATI 9800Pro, a few steps above the 9600xt, and BF2 recommends medium settings for my card.
So I am guessing a 9600xt would run on low settings for that game(BF2).

Also, this is an AGP card and most likely you will be getting into a PCI-E card(pci-express). Take a look at the x800 series, you can find some decent cards for around $170 . Not a bad card here. (www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127176)

Edit: When you are talking video cards, you need to pay attention to 1) Pipelines 2) GPU speeds 3) Memory Speeds and finally 4) Memory size i.e 128 mb, 256mb, etc.

[ApacNTS]

see i knew none of this, i thought that 9800xt was pretty good, if you hadnt of told me i would have been SOL. that is a nice card and the price actually isnt bad with the mail in rebate. it fits withing the requirments for f.e.a.r. which are as of now:

MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIRED
· Windows®XP or 2000 with latest service pack installed
· DirectX®9.0c (June Edition) or higher
· Pentium® 4 1.7 GHz or equivalent processor
· 512 MB of RAM or more
· 64 MB GeForce™ 4 Ti or Radeon® 9000 video card
· Monitor that can display in 4:3 aspect ratio
· 5.0 GB free Hard Drive Space for installation
· Additional hard drive space for a swap file and saved game files
· 4x CD-ROM drive (DVD-ROM drive for Director's Edition)
· 16-bit DirectX® 9.0 compliant sound card with support for EAX™ 2.0
· Broadband or LAN connection for multiplayer games
· Mouse
· Keyboard

RECOMMENDED HARDWARE
·Pentium® 4 3.0 GHz or equivalent processor
·1 GB RAM
·A 256 MB Radeon® 9800 Pro or equivalent DirectX® 9 compliant video car with hardware T&L and pixel shader 2.0 support

SUPPORTED CHIPSETS
ATI® Radeon® 9000 Series, Radeon® 9500 Series, Radeon® 9600 Series, Radeon® 9700 Series, Radeon® 9800 Series, Radeon® X600 Series, Radeon® X700 Series, Radeon® X800 Series, Radeon® X850 Series

Nvidia GeForce™ 4Ti Series, GeForce™ FX 5900 Series, 600 Series, 6800 Series, 7800 Series


sidenote: battlefield 2 caught my eye as well, it looked amazing, i never played bf1, but i think i would jump right into bf2.

[JunkBarMan]

see i knew none of this, i thought that 9800xt was pretty good, if you hadnt of told me i would have been SOL.

Your link said 9600xt bro, not sure if you have a type-o or not. But if it was a 9800xt 256 mb, I would say go for it.

Edit:
RECOMMENDED HARDWARE
·Pentium® 4 3.0 GHz or equivalent processor
·1 GB RAM
·A 256 MB Radeon® 9800 Pro or equivalent DirectX® 9 compliant video car with hardware T&L and pixel shader 2.0 support

Yeah you see right there, they are telling you: If you want to enjoy this game how it was meant to be played, meet and beat these recommendations.

[ApacNTS]

oh shit, i never even saw it. i swore it was 9800xt, well that explains the price now. wow talk about egg on my face, played out for the world to see. *laughs* im literally speechless right now. now i have to learn about amd stuff, a whole new world.

edit: i see that all too clearly now, from my perspective im just trying to get my foot in the door of gaming.

[JunkBarMan]

ApacNTS my friend you are on the road to enlightenment. ;)

Don't let me burst your bubble here, I just like to take a realistic perspective and I certainly wouldn't want you to buy something that would just screw yourself.

We all work on budgets, some just bigger then others. Make the most of what you got and you can't go wrong. :D

[ApacNTS]

thank you for the help, im sure i'll have many questions as time follows, but for now im gonna sleep on this, and probably draw up prices at work just to see how steep the hill goes.

[Duffman]

If you want a good computer thats gonna last a couple years, try to double your budget.

[cpt_azad]

ya, atleast 1000 dollars, or you wont be able to enjoy FEAR, or any other game coming out. just save money like crazy.

[lynx]

hmmm see the only problem is the processor would have to do atleast 2.8ghz, really i need it to do 3ghz
No, you don't need that sort of processor speed.
If you get a P4 you will probably want it to run at that sort of speed.
If you want to get the equivalent performance from an AMD Athon64 chip, it only needs to run at about 1.8GHz.

Intel have been shouting about higher clock speeds for years. AMD have been saying better design can give the same performance. Intel now have big problems because their chips are overheating. Meanwhile, AMD chips only need about 60% of the clock speed to achieve the same performance, and consequently they haven't got the same heat consideration.

Consider this - Intel promised a 4GHz P4 by Q2 of this year. Where is it?
Meanwhile AMD have the Athlon 64 FX57 running at 2.8GHz, apply the 60% loading and that's equivalent to about 4.6GHz in a P4. OK, it is expensive, but it exists.

To compare like for like (as near as possible), look at the AMD Athlon 64 3800+ and the Intel Pentium 4 570J. You'll find they have approximately the same performance. I think the AMD chip is probably the one you found running at 2.4GHz. The retail version sells on Newegg for $323. The Intel chip sells for
$632. I rest my case.

[cpt_azad]

Ya, lynx actually put it into better words then I could ever imagine lol. AMD really is for gamers, Intel is just for people who want "brand name" products regardless of quality, I'm not saying that AMD is unpopular nor that Intel's product quality standards are low, I'm just saying that AMD is the more smarter choice. I had an Intel once (1.7ghz) and it was POS, my uncle gave us an AMD which was about 1.2 ghz, and lemme tell u something it was almost as if it was a 2.0ghz machine :D . If you want to play FEAR to its full potential, AMD is really the only way to go since it's better and in most cases CHEAPER than Intel.

[ApacNTS]

oh im sold on AMD now, see heres the thing, i dont know how amd works, i see where it says the core clock is 1.8ghz, but people say it will run higher, so how do i know what results i could achieve? also this isnt with oc'n is it? likewise if the chip is cooler i can buy a cheapo case and it'll be fine.

as far as intels. heh let me say this, every intel i've had, which now is about 4, has bottled up beyond belief, locked up, jammed, and in some cases just crash. so moving to amd is probably the smartest move i can make.

i'll probably...no i will need help with choosing the cpu and mobo, dont think i can screw up the ram or ata drive, but i'll ask just to be sure, any suggestions? for reference atleast my budget still sucks like paris hilton on a night vision camera :p

[clocker]

likewise if the chip is cooler i can buy a cheapo case and it'll be fine.


Wrong.
Although the CPU itself does run considerably cooler ( the Venice/San Diego/Winchester 90nm cores will idle in the low to mid 20's), the northbridge and video cards are little furnaces.

Airflow will still be of paramount importance.

Furthermore, cheap cases usually come bundled with cheap power supplies and that will be the kiss of death for your PC.
Figure you will need a minimum of a quality 450w PSU- higher would be better.
The Antec 480w Neopower is the lowest rung PSU I would recommend and the real good ones (Seasonic S12 600, fer instance) are even more expensive.

Recommendations:
-DFI LanParty (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813136157) motherboard
-AMD a64 3000+ Venice (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103537)
-Patriot "EP" RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220018)
-XFX 6800 GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150091) video card

I can vouch for all of these (and the combination) cause that's what I('ve) run so I know it works.
You can spend more on the CPU (if you want) and more memory is always a good thing (shoot for a gig), but this platform will do what you want.

The rest you can figure out yourself.

[ApacNTS]

heh i see you spared no expense, would make a hell of a gaming station. surprised the ram was that cheap, to be of that quality. nice price for the cpu to. that mobo is something else. thanks for the links man :D

about the case, i figured as much, like i said in one of my other post about the "coffin" effect.

[clocker]

heh i see you spared no expense
I thought I showed quite a bit of restraint actually.
Personally I would go for a 2.2GHz San Diego chip and a 7800 vid card.

The parts I posted would be for a "budget" gaming machine.

[ApacNTS]

it wasnt the cpu that threw me, more the mobo. i know video cards can be outrageous in both price and performance. out of curiosity what specs do you have for your system?

[clocker]

case: CM Stacker or Silverstone TJ-06 ( the Silverstone has been extensively modified for watercooling, the Stacker is now aircooled- but that could change at the drop of a hat)

Motherboard: DFI LanParty NF4 SLI-DR

CPU: 3500 Winchester s939

RAM: 2x 1GB Patriot EP ( I use 2x512MB for benchmarks, but they may be sold soon)

Video: 2x XFX 6800 GT (only one card installed while I work out the cooling)

PSU: Seasonic S12 600w

HDD: 3x36GB ( two installed with one in the mail) WD Raptor (RAID 0) and 1x 120GB Seagate SATA

Optical: Plextor 716 SATA DVD-RW

I am currently working out the cooling for the Stacker.
The goal is to not modify the case exterior at all ( a big challenge for me, I tend to be a bit trigger happy).
As I progress pics will be posted...Sprocket is a total attention whore.

[JunkBarMan]

Recommendations:
-DFI LanParty (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813136157) motherboard
-AMD a64 3000+ Venice (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103537)
-Patriot "EP" RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220018)
-XFX 6800 GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150091) video card



That board and that video card aren't *budget*.

This guy said he has like $350.

[clocker]

That board and that video card aren't *budget*.

This guy said he has like $350.
Then the first chip he gets to ante into this game is his innocence.
That machine is barely capable of running Vista much less cruising through F.E.A.R.

With $350 he can buy an Etch-A-Sketch and a nice piggy bank.

[lynx]

oh im sold on AMD now, see heres the thing, i dont know how amd works, i see where it says the core clock is 1.8ghz, but people say it will run higher, so how do i know what results i could achieve? also this isnt with oc'n is it?
Most AMD processors have a performance rating.
It is roughly based on the performance of the original Athlon chip. So the Athlon XP 3000+ has a rating which is approximately equivalent to an Athlon chip running at 3000MHz (or 3GHz).

The original Athlon easily beat the P3 running at the same speed for most tasks. Early P4's still lagged slightly, mid term P4's about matched, and later P4's probably have a slight edge.

So a P4 running at 3GHz is probably marginally faster than an AthlonXP 3000+. I'm not sure how that pans out with the Athlon64 range, the comparisons are slightly different, but it is fairly safe to say you would still be in the same area of performance. Intel, now that their "speed is everything" myth has been dispelled, have instead gone for a processor numbering system which tells you nothing about relative performance.

When people say the chips will run higher, they are indeed talking about overclocking. My motherboard gives a 4% overclock as standard, but it is simply to knock that back if required. However, I've boosted that to 15% on stock cooling without any problems.

[ApacNTS]

That board and that video card aren't *budget*.

This guy said he has like $350.
Then the first chip he gets to ante into this game is his innocence.
That machine is barely capable of running Vista much less cruising through F.E.A.R.

With $350 he can buy an Etch-A-Sketch and a nice piggy bank.

:lol: :lol: :lol: couldnt help but laugh at that. reminds me of that weird al song "Got a flat-screen monitor forty inches wide wide, I believe that your says "Etch-A-Sketch" on the side"

[clocker]

I did not know that Weird Al was popular throughout the Empire.

Learn something new every day.

[ApacNTS]

clocker after looking up your cpu and it's specs im sitting here with my jaw dropped, that motha must kick ass and take names on every thing you throw at it. what is that in number of ghz somewhere around 3.5ghz??? insanity. 2.2for core another 2 in fsb..128 in cache 1 and 512 cache 2, you got a supercharged machine man. btw, about dual cores, which im taking you have since you are attempting to run 2 vid cards, is it really necessary? i read about sli and how they do half on one and half on another are you going that route? it said the diffrence was marginal on some applications but phenominal on others, i mean is it really that huge? especially with the prices of vid cards.

[Virtualbody1234]

Don't listen to clocker if you want a budget machine.

[Spicker]

Don't listen to clocker if you want a budget machine.
:lol: :lol: Thats sooo tru!!! :lol:

put him on ur ignore list :happy:

[clocker]

clocker after looking up your cpu and it's specs im sitting here with my jaw dropped, that motha must kick ass and take names on every thing you throw at it.
But of course.
Sprocket is a harsh and needy mistress.
what is that in number of ghz somewhere around 3.5ghz??? insanity.
Insanity, indeed.
Stock speed is 2.2GHz and I run between 2.4-2.6GHz daily.
2.2for core another 2 in fsb..128 in cache 1 and 512 cache 2, you got a supercharged machine man.
Huh?
btw, about dual cores, which im taking you have since you are attempting to run 2 vid cards, is it really necessary?
No, I don't have an x2 (yet). SLI does not require them.
i read about sli and how they do half on one and half on another are you going that route?
I'm trying to, yes.
it said the diffrence was marginal on some applications but phenominal on others, i mean is it really that huge?
Don't know yet.
especially with the prices of vid cards.
If you don't spend insane money on your diversions, the terrorists have won.

[ApacNTS]

2.2 ghz is clock speed, it has another 1ghz in fsb, L1 cache has 64+64kb enabled and L2 cache has 512kb. it's alot in terms of what you normally see. vrooom vroooom, hah you named your computer, thats great.

[clocker]

Don't listen to clocker if you want a budget machine.

im planning on building a new system(for the first time) basically this computer is well beyond it's time, i want to make a pc that can play the upcoming game F.E.A.R.
cough*Ahem*cough
I have reread the mission statement and don't see the word "budget" anywhere.

[Virtualbody1234]

cough*Ahem*cough

heh i feared as much about the motherboard. my budget is about 350 at best by the end of october. now i'll go crawl under a rock cause im an outcast *hides* amd is hella pricy, i dont know how you guys get all that uber sweet gear.
:P

[clocker]

OK, I admit it.

Every day in my realife job I deal with customers who want "X", but will only pay for "Z".
When I post here I indulge myself and only pay attention to the "want" half of the equation...after all, there is no financial incentive for me to struggle reconciling desire with disposable income.

If a person walked into the shop and requested a machine to play F.E.A.R. (or Doom3 or RollerCoaster Tycoon 10 or whatever) on a budget of $350 my best offer would be to let them rent time on my PC, cause you sure as hell cannot build a gaming box for that amount.

Besides, how many of these threads are just blue sky dreams anyway?
Seems like the majority of the "Help me build a machine" topics never make it beyond the pixellated stage.

[Gripper]

OK, I admit it.

Every day in my realife job I deal with customers who want "X", but will only pay for "Z".
When I post here I indulge myself and only pay attention to the "want" half of the equation...after all, there is no financial incentive for me to struggle reconciling desire with disposable income.

If a person walked into the shop and requested a machine to play F.E.A.R. (or Doom3 or RollerCoaster Tycoon 10 or whatever) on a budget of $350 my best offer would be to let them rent time on my PC, cause you sure as hell cannot build a gaming box for that amount.

Besides, how many of these threads are just blue sky dreams anyway?
Seems like the majority of the "Help me build a machine" topics never make it beyond the pixellated stage.

Such is life Clocker our hopes and dreams are what keep us going,take yourself you are always pushing the boundrys of what is possible,if we don't dream we don't strive to better things,I started my computing with a ZX81,there was no way I could concieve I would have a machine like I have now way back then,yet I still strive for the best on a limited budget,such is life ;)

[ApacNTS]

well as depressingly true as that is. i have all intentions of making a machine, it would be nice to have it around october, but logically it'll be later. either way, you were another voice that convinced me of the power amd has to offer.

[clocker]

either way, you were another voice that convinced me of the power amd has to offer.
If you would kindly notify Mary at AMD Partner Disbursement my commission check will be expedited.

Thanks in advance.

[ApacNTS]

as of now i've pretty locked down my cpu, cddrive, harddrive, ram, and such, yet to buy. mobo and case will have to be sorted after my next problem.

which card should i consider actually buying that would give good performance.

the x800/50 or the GeForce 6800. considering these cards are around 200 on ebay it's not quite so bad.

if you have another choice that's around that pricerange or even a little over, feel free to drop it on me. given up the cheap system tactics. even my friend told me to wait and build something of quality instead being stupid and hating the end result.

[Wolfmight]

I really recommend 1gb ram. Once you have a gig, you won't need to worry about it anymore...Windows will "rarely" run out, so you'll never see those intense laggs.

[Peerzy]

Agree'd 1GB is such an improvement over 512mb and 2GB atm isn't really needed unless you're doing massive ammounts of video editing and game playing at the same time.

[ApacNTS]

yeah i see that, had already factored that in, i mean 1gb for around $60 or so is worth every penny :D.

[Peerzy]

That doesn't sound right. In the UK $60 is about £30 and you can just about get a shit budget stick of 512 for that. So i'd check out reviews before buying as it might be cheap unbranded budget shit.

[ApacNTS]

hmmm looks like your right. must have been thinking about another type of ram from before. let me ask you, do you think it's necessary to have a heat spreader on a stick of ram for gaming? or would it be fine without it?

[Peerzy]

I've never needed one, thought about getting one last time i made an Ebuyer order but they didn't have the one i wanted in stock. To be honest i doubt it really does massive ammounts of difference and im sure it's just for show. Certainly not needed but if you've got a nice case with a side panel and stuff an extra £5 to make your ram look nice and maybe cool them down a few degree's won't break the bank.

[ApacNTS]

settles that then, thanks.

[clocker]

let me ask you, do you think it's necessary to have a heat spreader on a stick of ram for gaming? or would it be fine without it?
Gskill, makers of some of the highest performing RAM available, do not use heatspreaders at all.
I have seen screenshots of bare sticks clocked to DDR690 speeds.

Must mean something.

[ApacNTS]

well that's good to hear. after awhile i began to think that everything needed some type of cooling.

[ApacNTS]

with 95% of my system picked out i thought i'd ask for impressions or if i simply missed something. i tried my best to stay within my budget, at the same time not bottleneck my pc to hell.

CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103537)
RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820223009)
MOBO (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157081)
CDROM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827101134)
Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811190053)
HardDrive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822162004)

lack of a video card because theres no money for it, and i cant decide what to go with. primarily i'd like a card around $100-$120, at the same time, i'd like it to run games like World of Warcraft, F.E.A.R., CS:Source, Battlefield 2 decently, by no means do i expect to marvel at them, but medium settings would be nice, also i never go above 1024x768. suggestions are welcome, i'd love a 6800gt, heard the 9800xt had problems, it was cut off the list, 6600 looked promising then i saw it was rather slow and feared it.

[lynx]

You would be better advised getting a PCI-Express motherboard and matching graphics card. The mobo will probably be slightly more, the graphics card slightly less than its AGP equivalent so it balances out.

Here's one which is only $4.50 more
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186052

The other thing is that all these boards are capable of handling dual channel memory (actaully, it it built in to the CPU). If you don't intend getting more memory later it is probably a better idea to get 2x256MB rather than a single 512MB stick.

Personally, I'd get a DVD writer rather than a CDRom drive, but at the very least you should spend another $5 and get a CD writer.

Everyone is going to say things about that case. Probably not a lot wrong with the case itself, but you should remember that at that price they are virtually giving the PSU away. If it is almost free you can't expect any quality, and there won't be. It almost certainly only has a 20-pin mobo connector too. Better to get a cheaper case without a PSU and buy a decent (24-pin) PSU separately, rather than risk the rest of your investment on such a cheap component.

Still, your choice of HDD and CPU are fine.

The 6600 may have been described as slow, but compared to what? And which model? The 6600GT is fine.

[ApacNTS]

about the cdrom, see i have another computer that has a cdrw drive already in it. since someone else built it i dont have w/e cd came with it, so im not sure if i need drivers off it or what. is it possible to use that drive, will winxp have drivers to run the burner? if so that'd help tremendously.

edit: forgot to mention it's an LG model cd burner.

[clocker]

will winxp have drivers to run the burner? if so that'd help tremendously.

Yes, it will.

[ApacNTS]

saves me 20 bucks :D. thanks.

[zapjb]

Yesterday 08:53 PM
lynx

"Better to get a cheaper case without a PSU and buy a decent (24-pin) PSU separately, rather than risk the rest of your investment on such a cheap component."

Correct, Antec, Enermax, Vantec, PC Power & Cooling & a couple (literally) more brands. Or you're throwing your money away.

[ApacNTS]

finding a "cheap" case is part of the problem im facing now. my main worry with the case is the temp. i really fear im gonna get my system put together go to game and it melt to hell.

looking for 2 fans the price is decent, but the cases are horrible looking. the best case i found which is about $61 w/shipping, the CoolerMaster (www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119068), 1 80mm 1 120mm fan. still i fear overheating. price is steaper than i originally thought, good deal i know, but budget is tight, then add $20-$30 for psu.

saddest part is, only 95% of the computer will be built by the end of october if im lucky, the graphics card will be another 2 months out :(

cost effective version was around $490 with everything. easier said then done.

[Virtualbody1234]

Don't buy anything untill you can buy it all. There's no point in having a system built without a graphics card while the prices are constantly dropping.

Your fear of overheating with a 90nm Athlon 64 is unwarranted. They run really cool.

[ApacNTS]

would a single fan keep the system cool enough? part of the appeal of amd was how everyone raves of their cooler temps and higher performance. being my first build i dont wanna screw up royally.

[Virtualbody1234]

Without overclocking, 1 exhaust case fan as well as the exhaust fan(s) from the power supply will be sufficient. Your graphics card is likely to produce more heat than the CPU.

Just be sure that air has a clear passage to get into the case.

[Virtualbody1234]

Here is a possible case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129150

- A fairly well built case with rubber mounts for HDD and 120mm exhaust fan.
- Antec 350w SmartPower PSU with 24-pin power connector.

$65.

[Delorean]

Hey guys.. i was wondering.. will An Nvidia graphics card FX6600, for pci express motherboard, be able to play fear with adequate performance at a high quality graphics or close to that?

If yes ApacNTS could buy an intel p4 3.0GHZ processor with a good pci xpress mother board and at least 768Ram and just buy the Nvidia 6600.. If the 6600 can play the game, well, it will probably last for 2-3 years right?

With at a pretty good price.. Howerver he has to think about the heating problem... i have to leave the left side of my tower open..

[S!X]

Hey guys.. i was wondering.. will An Nvidia graphics card FX6600, for pci express motherboard, be able to play fear with adequate performance at a high quality graphics or close to that?

Whats your complete specs?

[Delorean]

Hey guys.. i was wondering.. will An Nvidia graphics card FX6600, for pci express motherboard, be able to play fear with adequate performance at a high quality graphics or close to that?

Whats your complete specs?

What do you mean Linkin Park?

[S!X]

What do you mean Linkin Park?

What kind of cpu,mobo, ram ect do you have? Need a little more in depth info.

[Delorean]

Oh ok..

My pc is:
intel P4 3GHz
Pci xpress motherboard 915D
1024MB Ram
Hard Disk sata 160 Gigs
I'm not sure what mobo is though...
My graphics card is the integraded that came with the motherboard..
Even though is a quite strong hardware it barley plays AOE3 and it doesn't even play a lot of other games.. well what i'm asking is that if an Nvidia Fx6600 can make the big difference and hold me for 2-3 years..

[ApacNTS]

digging up a near extinct thread for an update.

well i've been plugging away at trying to find decent peices and biding my time cause i didnt want to be stupid and just build any old machine. along the way everyone including this board has said to wait it out and be patient, it will pay. im nearly there i only need a little bit more time, with the help of a friend i may get to my goal alot sooner than later.

Components

Cpu (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103533)
Mobo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138264)(already combo'n with cpu)
Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811147016)
Ram (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820145452)
HDD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822144102)
Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130249)

any thoughts/suggestions still are helpful. building it will be the real joy :)

[Seedler]

digging up a near extinct thread for an update.

well i've been plugging away at trying to find decent peices and biding my time cause i didnt want to be stupid and just build any old machine. along the way everyone including this board has said to wait it out and be patient, it will pay. im nearly there i only need a little bit more time, with the help of a friend i may get to my goal alot sooner than later.

Components

Cpu (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103533)
Mobo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138264)(already combo'n with cpu)
Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811147016)
Ram (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820145452)
HDD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822144102)
Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130249)

any thoughts/suggestions still are helpful. building it will be the real joy :)


Everything except the vid card and cpu gotta change...

MOBO...NO, that's a mobo with integrated graphics, you want a DFI or Asus mobo, either ultra or SLI because you said you wanted a GOOD mobo.

Case: the case is fine, but the PSU that comes with it is shit. Get a proper PSU or you will regret it.

RAM: You said you wanted to play F.E.A.R...512mb of RAM isn't gonna run that game very well. I have 1 gig of ram and FEAR+windows uses about 1.2GB at my peak...so you definitely want 1 gig at the very least.

HDD: 80GB of storage might seem enough for now, but if i were you, i'd get myself a 160GB SATA drive and maybe upgrade later.

[ApacNTS]

i figured the mobo was a weak link, expected some flak on that. the hdd is a temp solution to cut cost a bit, unless i pull a bit more money than i thought. i knew i was already gonna replace the psu, i mean the 7800gt need it's own plug in to the wall basically.
so according to this i need about another $100 to sure up the loose ends. starting to feel the pain of clockers thought process and i havent even built it yet heh, it never ends :D

[Seedler]

i figured the mobo was a weak link, expected some flak on that. the hdd is a temp solution to cut cost a bit, unless i pull a bit more money than i thought. i knew i was already gonna replace the psu, i mean the 7800gt need it's own plug in to the wall basically.
so according to this i need about another $100 to sure up the loose ends. starting to feel the pain of clockers thought process and i havent even built it yet heh, it never ends :D

If you don't need it urgently right now, save up for dual-core, say the X3800. You won't regret it.

[ApacNTS]

heh dual core sounds nice, but i've been patient 9months as it is. i want to play already :P. anyway here are my revisions, see if they make the build better.

Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811147025) didnt need to, but like the look better.
PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817148008)
Ram (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146299)
Mobo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131569)

[fkdup74]

Cpu (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103533)
Mobo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138264)(already combo'n with cpu)

any thoughts/suggestions still are helpful. building it will be the real joy :)

I'd say can the mobo.
I know it's a combo deal, but....
You don't need on-board gfx.

They have the 3500 Venice combo'd with this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138272) mobo,
which would be a bit better I would think.
(Nice CPU btw, I have one and it runs smooth.)
Although, if it were me purchasing the system,
I think I'd stay with a board from MSI or Gigabyte,
DFI or Asus if you want to spend a few more bucks.

[fkdup74]

If you don't need it urgently right now, save up for dual-core, say the X3800. You won't regret it.

Single core CPUs have been proven to run games better than dual cores. Fact.


HDD: 80GB of storage might seem enough for now, but if i were you, i'd get myself a 160GB SATA drive and maybe upgrade later.

And why 160 gigs? If he/she's to upgrade later, then 80 gigs would be just fine for the time being.

[cpt_azad]

If you don't need it urgently right now, save up for dual-core, say the X3800. You won't regret it.
Single core CPUs have been proven to run games better than dual cores. Fact.
HL2 being the only exception.

If you (the person who started the thread) want to plan for the future, I don't think waiting another month or two would hurt you that much, that way get all the decent parts and your set.

Buying a gaming machine isn't something you just want to rush into, it took me 2 and a half years to save up money for my first gaming rig, and I thank god everyday for not going out and buying the comp before I was completely sure, cuz from the point I started plannign to the point I actually bought my first, 2.5 years is a lot of change in the tech world. So many new things came out and I was ready for them all (financially).

Alas, once you're done with your gaming phase, you're gonna regret spending so much money on it, win-lose situation if you ask me.

[ApacNTS]

it's funny you mention how things change. last night i surfed around and was just reading about windows vista and things, i stumbled upon a video that talks about the new direct x 10, and how it's the new way developers are making games look even more amazing. they said vista will launch with a few DX10 games and it wont be backwards compatible, but vista will have DX9 installed as well. the next hitch was for the newer games to be played you need a brand new DX10 video card, which arent even out yet.

of course this all isnt supposed to happen until later this year, but it still reminds me that the pc world is ever growing and changing.

[clocker]

I'm gonna recommend this Patriot RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220006) one more time and then shut up.
It will significantly outperform the Mushkin for a paltry premium.

As for Vista...
Making a buying decision now based on possible Vista-use in the future is hopeless.
Especially at your budget level.
Personally, it appears that the whole Vista/M2 socket package is going to be a total clusterfuck at release- major cash outlay for dubious performance advantage.
This will change as the platform(s) develop naturally, but trying to be an "early adopter" into this upcoming cycle seems like a bigger risk than usual.

[ApacNTS]

yeah my budget is pretty dead, more than it was when i first started all this mess so long ago. but $850 does carry alot of weight. i may be able to squeeze that ram in, i see no complaints at all which shows it's a great performer. what do you think about the rest of my specs clocker? are they atleast decent enough to not make me think i was a complete idiot for spending so much on it? if all else fails is that offer to rent sprocket still up for sale ? :P

[clocker]

yeah my budget is pretty dead, more than it was when i first started all this mess so long ago.
The computer industry loves you.
but $850 does carry alot of weight.
In Wal-Mart maybe...
i may be able to squeeze that ram in, i see no complaints at all which shows it's a great performer. what do you think about the rest of my specs clocker? are they atleast decent enough to not make me think i was a complete idiot for spending so much on it?
"Feeling like an idiot" is part of the deal.
If you'd spent less, you'd feel that you'd shortchanged yourself.
Spend more till you realize that's it's never going to be enough.
if all else fails is that offer to rent sprocket still up for sale ? :P
The offer to rent her out may still be open but is not, nor has it ever been, for sale.
That would make her little more than a common tart.
She is hardly "common" although her propensitity to tartiness is not in dispute.

A matter of degree she insists upon.

[ApacNTS]

heh ur post always make me laugh one way or the other. never enough, is all too true.

i didnt want to use the word "grabs" instead of sale, i mean she probably wouldnt like to be fondled in such a way. :D

[Seedler]

I'm gonna recommend this Patriot RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220006) one more time and then shut up.
It will significantly outperform the Mushkin for a paltry premium.

As for Vista...
Making a buying decision now based on possible Vista-use in the future is hopeless.
Especially at your budget level.
Personally, it appears that the whole Vista/M2 socket package is going to be a total clusterfuck at release- major cash outlay for dubious performance advantage.
This will change as the platform(s) develop naturally, but trying to be an "early adopter" into this upcoming cycle seems like a bigger risk than usual.

:dry:
Clocker is a huge fan of patriot RAM...Maybe he works for them, you never know.

Although I have to admit patriot does make good RAM:P

[clocker]

Clocker is a huge fan of technology that works and the Patriot really does.
I am not an employee.

Over the past several months we have seen a significant degradation in Mushkin performance/compatability, especially with the lower priced modules.
The Blue Line used to be a safe recommendation for everyone up to the fanatic overclocker but that is no longer the case...the Patriot has supplanted it in our shop.

My recommendations about hardware are typically based on personal experience, not financial gain.

[ApacNTS]

seeing as how u have gone through all types of designs, pieces yourself, and help people worse than me and just like me all day, i always valued your advice. i know i cant keep pace with sprocket, but if i can have a nice performer im happy. that knowledge about mushkin def makes me rethink my choice. thanks again :)

edit: well it's not in my budget to make it to your recommended ram however i did stay with the same brand and go with 1gb Patriot Ram (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220037)

edit2: man, well a friend alerted me that it'd be foolish to pay 314 for a card that's not quite as good as the 7900gt (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130282) thats 359 and plays like a 7800gtx. so ive changed the vidcard to a 7900gt now.