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fallenknight308
04-14-2003, 10:44 PM
Yep, I was right. Now we are rattling the sabre with them <_<
Will My countrymen and the brits get to go home to see their familys first? :(
I don&#39;t know about you, but I&#39;m fed up with this proxy-war for israel&#33; :ph34r:

myfiles3000
04-14-2003, 11:12 PM
now that the us has a major presence in the middle east, it might just be enough to threaten war for the US to get its way in Syria, iran, lebanon, etc. But of course, a man&#39;s got to do what a man&#39;s got to do, and if war is needed, well praise the lord and pass the satellite-guided ordinance.

Either way, I predict a ramped up secret war against enemies in the middle east, now that they have a solid base of operations, the black ops people will be busy. Keep your eyes open for prominent anti-american policiticians dropping like flies from things like heart attacks, suicides, car crashes, random attacks of violence, assasination, drug overdoses...all harmless events until someone looks around and says, HEY, where&#39;d everybody go?&#33;

and to those inevitable posts that will label me a &#39;conspiracy theorist&#39;, keep in mind this is based on historical fact, not my imagination. But don&#39;t take my word for it, by all means.

DiogenesUK
04-14-2003, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by fallenknight308@14 April 2003 - 23:44
Yep, I was right. Now we are rattling the sabre with them&nbsp; <_<
Will My countrymen and the brits get to go home to see their familys first? :(
I don&#39;t know about you, but I&#39;m fed up with this proxy-war for israel&#33; :ph34r:
Too right FK,all this war stuff&#39;s so bloody neanderthal.

"My tank&#39;s better than your tank" etc. etc.

I guess it&#39;s just a bunch of guys going through some mid-life crisis & looking for a dog to kick,whilst their womenfolk & children encourage them by baying for blood.

It was the same here in the UK 10 or 12 years ago when &#39;that&#39; revolting woman was pulling the strings,it was pathetic :(

hobbes
04-15-2003, 01:41 AM
I really hope not.

You need to justify the Iraqi invasion first, and this has not been done.

Even if we do, this has nothing to do with Israel.

kAb
04-15-2003, 01:51 AM
The U.S. will say secretly to syria..

"Look how we fucked up Iraq in a month, nobody in the middle east thought we could do it... now, lets introduce democracy eh?"

and look @ n. korea, now talking to the U.S.

"umm.. lets talk shall we?"

this war may have more advantages than just getting rid of chem. & bio weapons.

sArA
04-15-2003, 02:10 AM
Nobody forget.....North Korea has the 5th largest armed forces in the world...and yet...I saw a US General on TV tonight saying that the US is ready to push for a regime change there&#33;&#33;&#33; Astounding arrogance&#33;&#33;&#33; I just hope that the UK isn&#39;t pulled along with them into WW3.

You can all call me paranoid if you like, but even if the US feels justified in pushing for world democracy, it is not their job to force the world to comply...doesn&#39;t that make them a dictatorship too just on a bigger scale?

If you take this analogy further...dictatorships crush and defeat all those who disagree with them in order to continue their preferred regime. This unfortunately is how it will seem that the US is behaving to the rest of the world even if they think their motives are morally justified.

hobbes
04-15-2003, 02:21 AM
Yeah, well Sara, all i know about you is that you like to get mad and walk away.

I was more than concilliatory towards you in a prior thread, despite my understanding that you had misunderstood what I was saying. I am a nice guy.

You failed to reply like a spoiled little brat. I am not impressed with you, period.

sArA
04-15-2003, 02:28 AM
I don&#39;t walk away...I don&#39;t get mad....I just have an opinion.....If you don&#39;t like it...sorry...

sArA
04-15-2003, 02:31 AM
Oh...and as I am looking in other threads and trying to help out the little I can....and have a slow connection...you must have got the wrong impression that I just enter an argument and run away...

This is not true...maybe I got tired and went to bed that night...maybe I thought that there wouldn&#39;t be a reply until the next day....lots of possibilities...I can&#39;t remember which thread it was now....you can remind me if you like.

hobbes
04-15-2003, 02:37 AM
"Shame on this forum" from musicworld.

Please read and reply.

As I said, I am a nice guy. I am still willing to admit there has been a misunderstanding. :blink:

Oh well, I have to call it a night, don&#39;t make me wake up to negativism, unless it comes with a cup of coffee.

sArA
04-15-2003, 02:51 AM
Ok Hobbes....

I have read and inwardly digested the last response you made to my posting on music world and I just don&#39;t get it...

firstly I do not see where I got mad
Secondly, I did not throw about insults..call anyone names...or make any indication that anyone had to agree with my opinion.

Therefore Mr Fluffy Bunny....why call me a spoilt brat and for that matter why call those who did respond to &#39;rap is crap&#39; losers? Surely it is you who has become overwrought by the topic.

The only misunderstanding I can see is that you saw me as getting agressive when I wasn&#39;t.

Oh..and I am not now either...just a little confused and hurt at being accussed of being spoilt and cowardly when I cannot see how you came to this conclusion.

If you re-read the thread...perhaps you can look at it from a more generous perspective and see that I was infact purely defending the right of posters to join in or not as they see fit, and not to take any of this too seriously.

B)

hobbes
04-15-2003, 03:08 AM
I honestly don&#39;t know what to say, if you can&#39;t understand, I guess you can&#39;t.

I am going to bed now, I wish this could have had a better ending.

When someone extends the olive branch to you, you must accept it. I extended it, thinking you were confused. You must accept it thinking that I am too. We may have differing opinions, but we can shake hands and move on.

I called you a spoiled brat because you ignored my extended hand, I still think you just don&#39;t get it, but I don&#39;t know what else to say.

Take care, Hobbes

sArA
04-15-2003, 03:29 AM
Ok Hobbes...good night...sweet dreams..

Sorry I still dont get it...all I know is that you insult me and then tell me I should accept your olive branch.... which was where exactly??? I accept that there has been a misunderstanding..

However,

Your replies to my posts have been as if I am lacking the insight to understand your perspective...maybe I am..but you have been consistently unclear...apart from the insults....

Your last post was as if you were patting me on the head and saying &#39;there, there its not your fault if you dont understand the argument you poor little thing&#39;.....Not appreciated.

I dont like being condescended to, I dont like to be insulted, and if you got the wrong end of the stick then I am so very very sorry.....(that is twice I have said sorry).

You are clearly not listening to a word I have said.

You have no valid argument

You have no excuse for flaming me. Period.

hobbes
04-15-2003, 03:40 AM
"If you think that I am mad, or hot, or even unappreciative of your input, then we are failing to communicate. I mean seriously, I&#39;m just a fluffy bunny."

That is where it was, exactly.

I am hurt that you think I don&#39;t listen. Someone who speaks without listening is worthless. I have listened and this lead me to my last post. I will always listen, but I will not always agree. Honest.

Seriously, I am going to bed, waiting for my team to close out the game.

sArA
04-15-2003, 03:44 AM
Ok....lets call it a night...I am going to bed too....what&#39;s your team?

clocker
04-15-2003, 03:54 AM
Goodnight Lucy. Goodnight Ricky.

Goodnight Moon.

Blue_Seraphim
04-15-2003, 05:59 AM
I believe the British are already on there way home. Any further military action in the middle east by America will problably not be through coalition efforts.

fallenknight308
04-16-2003, 06:28 AM
Wow, my topic became some kind of lovers spat :P

Ghozt
04-16-2003, 07:45 AM
Last time we let it ride (Iraq 1991) look what happened&#33;&#33;

Ghozt
04-16-2003, 07:48 AM
"My tank&#39;s better than your tank" etc. etc.&nbsp;

I guess it&#39;s just a bunch of guys going through some mid-life crisis & looking for a dog to kick,whilst their womenfolk & children encourage them by baying for blood.

It was the same here in the UK 10 or 12 years ago when &#39;that&#39; revolting woman was pulling the strings,it was pathetic&nbsp; :(
What a load of bollocks.

longterm
04-17-2003, 07:48 AM
These threads are hilarious&#33; :lol: By the way, World War III is not an issue, according to an ex CIA Director, (not sure if full director or not).
He considers the Cold War to have been the 3rd World War, and us, America, to have won it.

Let no one doubt the intelligence lurking in the minds of the narrow-minded, power-hungry bigots that are making decisions for the rest of us. With the right collage of pictures of our POWs and 9/11 and a myriad of other sources, Middle Eastern hatred is being whipped into a seething and lethal tool, which will be wielded used to justify further military actions. :ph34r: Think tanks filled with professionals from many walks of life play out scenarios, trying to see which ones give the most favorable response to their needs.


I think it might take a more direct action to propel the type of things this administration wants to undertake. :unsure:

Unfortunately, I think it means another attack upon U.S. soil, brought about by whoever the administration wants to go after next. :huh: It will be manipulated and ordered by our own government, but it will look totally foreign, as did the 9/11 attacks. Remember the Bush connections&#33; Oil. The financial group that handles bin Ladens &#036;. The CIA-otherwise known as the 2nd government, and fully funded as such&#33; :ph34r: Outside our Constitution.
Outside our control. Outside what most of America really wants.

Understand, anyone in this thread not from, or in, America.

We, as Americans, have lost control over our government. :unsure: :o :(

Totally. :blink:

Witness the demise of our schools. :angry: Our health care.
Witness that I am willing to testify, if called upon, and upon my life, that until they started showing and talking about American POWs, that I&#39;d only found 2 people for the war, and I asked a lot of friggin&#39; people. Everywhere.
We...did...NOT...want...the...war&#33; :angry:
We...did...NOT...want...the...war. :blink:
(Military people-sgts, pfcs, corporals, etc, say they are for the war, because they are to "do what they have been trained to do", and have no say in the matter.)
Once info came in about what was being done to our troops...forget it.
Now many people are ready to drop bombs on the whole area. :huh:
I hear people saying the Middle East is "full of sand niggers", and that they should all "be blown to bits, and let&#39;s take their fucking oil."

This is what gets said.
It saddens me. :unsure:
My hobby remains the same.
My coworkers think I&#39;m nuts, but I don&#39;t care.
My hobby?
To save the world. :blink:
Educate. <_< Laugh. :P Love. :rolleyes: Life. B)

ne1GotZardoz
04-18-2003, 05:00 AM
Well...If we DO go into Syria, that throws out the whole &#39;OIL&#39; theory for the war and introduces an entirely new -NOT- concept to some of you conspiracy theologeons; &#39;STABILITY&#39;.

We&#39;re going to learn alot of wonderful things today, boys and girls...

Can you say, &#39;NEW WORLD ORDER&#39;?

How do you regulate the flow of the entire population of a planet when you have many different countries working independantly?

Frankly, you don&#39;t.

The New World Order will change all of that.

First, you convert all governments to a single system...in this case, democracy...then you allow a few large-scale international incidents to to take place, blaming the act on a lack of control over the population.

The little microchips they put in animals today, to keep track of them, will one day be used to identify people.

Its actually quite ingeneous if you think about it.

It can be introduced as the next step toward converting all currency to numbers in a computer.

A small microchip embeded in the palm of the hand you shake with. No more need to pull out your credit card, driver&#39;s license, debit card, etc.

The chip will identify you instantly to the scanner you place that hand on.
If its a check-out lane at Walmarts, it will access your bank and debit your checking account, or you can select credit and it will verify which card to apply it to.

Stopped for speeding? Just place your hand on the remote scanner the officer holds next to your window.
It will automatically deduct the fine from your account if funds are available, check for priors, send a report to the central computer for information retrieval by area buisinesses that need that info, and schedule a court date if you prefer to contest the fine.

They really need to work on that system though because right now, Identity theft becomes easier everytime they improve the technology.

And its next to impossible to track an Identity thief. Just look at AOL&#33;

Peace

fallenknight308
04-18-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz@17 April 2003 - 21:00


A small microchip embeded in the palm of the hand you shake with. No more need to pull out your credit card, driver&#39;s license, debit card, etc.


I would rather die, than have something inserted into my body :ph34r:
I have been trying to enlighten people of the coming strife, but most are to busy with day-to-day "life" to pay attention to reality. Lots of underground texts here:http://www.totse.com/
Some of its crap, some of it is eye-opening truth B)

MagicNakor
04-18-2003, 08:42 AM
"They" aren&#39;t going to be able to forcibly insert microchips into humans without the guy who&#39;s being the test-subject allowing it. At least, most certainly not in any of our lifetimes.

:ninja:

N£MO
04-18-2003, 09:00 AM
I think Old Trafford should be next :huh: :lol:

ne1GotZardoz
04-18-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@18 April 2003 - 03:42
"They" aren&#39;t going to be able to forcibly insert microchips into humans without the guy who&#39;s being the test-subject allowing it. At least, most certainly not in any of our lifetimes.

:ninja:
It won&#39;t be a difficult as you think.

You won&#39;t need one.

However, (potential government quote here), "Protect your children from kidnappers. Don&#39;t you love your children?"

It will start out that way. Once most people have them, it&#39;ll be easier to bring the rest in line.

You know, when I was a kid in Va, there was a group of people who refused to accept a social security number in this country. They believed it was the mark of the beast spoken of in revelations.

They also would not allow their hand to be stamped if they went in or out of a theme park.

What ever happened to them?

Think in these terms. You will not be able to buy, sell, travel or access your bank account without the chip when it gets to that point.

Right now you just about can&#39;t do those things without a social security number. But a SSN can be easily used by someone else.

Some places require a birth certificate as proof of identity, but again, look at sleepers. People who take on the identity of a dead person, using that person&#39;s birth info as their own to infiltrate our society.

Then of course, most places will accept a drivers license as proof of identity.

Thats just comical since the only doccumentation required to recieve a drivers license is your SSN and Birth Certificate. :rolleyes: What a world.

Receiving a microchip at birth with the permission of parents and at the "strong" suggestion of social workers, is the easiest way to go on this.

It will solve all government control problems, and (believe it or not), it will rob most us of much fewer freedoms than the alternative police state that could be required.

I read a file I downloaded the other day titled, "100 ways to disappear and live free.doc".
Very funny doccument but not intentionally so.

If you do the things he suggests in order to be "free", you won&#39;t be able to do anything.

I&#39;ve seen those guys. They hide in their apartments, peeking out through the peep-hole everytime they hear someone in the hall.

They go to a different store everytime they shop to avoid having a regular schedule that can be followed.

They don&#39;t have a car or drivers license.

Read the doc if you get a chance. Its on kazaa.

Is silly because I spent five months in a minumum security brig when I was in the Navy. You have more freedom their than those guys have.

Sad really.

Peace

DiogenesUK
04-18-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Ghozt@16 April 2003 - 08:48



"My tank&#39;s better than your tank" etc. etc.&nbsp;

I guess it&#39;s just a bunch of guys going through some mid-life crisis & looking for a dog to kick,whilst their womenfolk & children encourage them by baying for blood.

It was the same here in the UK 10 or 12 years ago when &#39;that&#39; revolting woman was pulling the strings,it was pathetic&nbsp; :(
What a load of bollocks.
Er yes,fortunately I have 2 which dropped some years back.

Still,it&#39;s nice to see a few stooping to my level of (non)intellectual debate on here.

Why not have the courage of your convictions,and place yourself firmly in the firing line......unless of course you&#39;re yet another who prefers to just run with the flock.....baaaahhh...baaaahhh

ne1GotZardoz
04-18-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Ghozt@16 April 2003 - 02:48



"My tank&#39;s better than your tank" etc. etc.&nbsp;

I guess it&#39;s just a bunch of guys going through some mid-life crisis & looking for a dog to kick,whilst their womenfolk & children encourage them by baying for blood.

It was the same here in the UK 10 or 12 years ago when &#39;that&#39; revolting woman was pulling the strings,it was pathetic&nbsp; :(
What a load of bollocks.
To quote a Sinead O&#39;Connor song,

"Magaret Thatcher on T.V.
Appalled at the deaths that took place in Bejeng.
It seems strange that she should be offended.
The same orders were given by her."

From &#39;Black Boys on Mopeds&#39;.

Excellent song. A true representation of England under Thatcher rule. At least as far as I can tell from my comfy chair in America.

I think one of the greatest things about a democracy though, is it&#39;s ability to rise above its past failures.
The mere fact a current administration does not need to justify its activities during the previous administration, (because it didn&#39;t exist then, for those who are a bit slow on that point), means that it does not have to follow in the rut worn by that previous admin.
In fact, it is often the desire for acceptance of policy that drives a current admin to correct the errors of the prior.
I don&#39;t think though that Congress and Senate should have potentially permanent seats.
I see that as a flaw since some of those congressmen and senators have way too much power.

In the case of a dictatorship however, you have one man, or a series of men, all usually related, all continuing a legacy of the bloodline and all usually defending their actions and the actions of their fathers by simply deleting anyone who questions them.

Just curious though...I don&#39;t have time to look it up...What kind of system is Holland under?

I&#39;m curious because I understand they have a park in Amsterdam where true freedom can be excersized after 10pm every night until the sun comes up.

I think its good for people to have that oportunity.
To see what true freedom really is.

The freedom to do whatever drug you want without consequence.

The freedom to sleep with whomever you wish, without regard to gender or age.

The freedom to see someone brutally murdered with impunity.

The freedom to be the person doing the murder.

The freedom to be that someone who was murdered.

Yeah man...Thats what I call REAL Freedom. <_<

I guess you could say, they died for what they believed?
:rolleyes:

Peace

ne1GotZardoz
04-18-2003, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by DiogenesUK+18 April 2003 - 10:42--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DiogenesUK @ 18 April 2003 - 10:42)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ghozt@16 April 2003 - 08:48



"My tank&#39;s better than your tank" etc. etc.

I guess it&#39;s just a bunch of guys going through some mid-life crisis & looking for a dog to kick,whilst their womenfolk & children encourage them by baying for blood.

It was the same here in the UK 10 or 12 years ago when &#39;that&#39; revolting woman was pulling the strings,it was pathetic :(
What a load of bollocks.
Er yes,fortunately I have 2 which dropped some years back.

Still,it&#39;s nice to see a few stooping to my level of (non)intellectual debate on here.

Why not have the courage of your convictions,and place yourself firmly in the firing line......unless of course you&#39;re yet another who prefers to just run with the flock.....baaaahhh...baaaahhh [/b][/quote]
(Non)intellectual debate?

And to think, all this time I thought you were being subtle.

:blink:

I will need to redefine my interpretation of you now.

...

...

Nope...You&#39;re still just the guy who likes to play devil&#39;s Advocate.

Peace

MagicNakor
04-18-2003, 09:32 PM
However, (potential government quote here), "Protect your children from kidnappers. Don&#39;t you love your children?"

Considering I don&#39;t have children, and I never will, I guess I don&#39;t love my children. ;) And as cold and unfeeling as it may sound, I don&#39;t particularly care for others&#39; children, either. My dog has a collar. My cat runs around naked. :D No microchips or tatooing there.


You will not be able to buy, sell, travel or access your bank account without the chip when it gets to that point.

Right now you just about can&#39;t do those things without a social security number. But a SSN can be easily used by someone else.

I&#39;ve never had a problem doing any of those. Never had to give my SIN for anything. I know people who don&#39;t have SINs, and they frequently do all of that. ;)


Thats just comical since the only doccumentation required to recieve a drivers license is your SSN and Birth Certificate.

Nope. Didn&#39;t need a SIN to get my license. Just a birth certificate.

Hell, where I live, you can pump your gas before paying for it. ;) If you were so inclined, you could drive off with a full tank and not pay a cent. The lone manager&#39;s usually watching TV inside the little store there. I&#39;ve been told this is unheard of in most places. I always thought it was normal.

:ninja:

ne1GotZardoz
04-18-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@18 April 2003 - 16:32

However, (potential government quote here), "Protect your children from kidnappers. Don&#39;t you love your children?"

Considering I don&#39;t have children, and I never will, I guess I don&#39;t love my children. ;) And as cold and unfeeling as it may sound, I don&#39;t particularly care for others&#39; children, either. My dog has a collar. My cat runs around naked. :D No microchips or tatooing there.


You will not be able to buy, sell, travel or access your bank account without the chip when it gets to that point.

Right now you just about can&#39;t do those things without a social security number. But a SSN can be easily used by someone else.

I&#39;ve never had a problem doing any of those. Never had to give my SIN for anything. I know people who don&#39;t have SINs, and they frequently do all of that. ;)


Thats just comical since the only doccumentation required to recieve a drivers license is your SSN and Birth Certificate.

Nope. Didn&#39;t need a SIN to get my license. Just a birth certificate.

Hell, where I live, you can pump your gas before paying for it. ;) If you were so inclined, you could drive off with a full tank and not pay a cent. The lone manager&#39;s usually watching TV inside the little store there. I&#39;ve been told this is unheard of in most places. I always thought it was normal.

:ninja:
We&#39;re talking near future here.

That you don&#39;t have or care much for children is neither here nor there.
Children are the most likely first target because parents are usually much more willing to give up the freedoms of their children in return for safety, than they are to give up their own freedoms at any cost.

Aside from that, what city do you live in?

I see a potential retirement place.

myfiles3000
04-18-2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz@18 April 2003 - 13:20
Receiving a microchip at birth...It will solve all government control problems, and (believe it or not), it will rob most us of much fewer freedoms than the alternative police state that could be required.

There&#39;s no reason to believe that identity theft woulnd&#39;t exist in a world of implanted chips. Despite increased security measures in the past decade or so, ID theft is at an all-time high. Can anyone name me a single security measure or device that hasn&#39;t eventually been cracked? What&#39;s stopping someone from replacing the original chip with a different one, or configuring the one they have? I thought this board was populated by sci fi fans, how can you such faith in technology with books like necromancer around?

ne1GotZardoz
04-19-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by myfiles3000+18 April 2003 - 17:58--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (myfiles3000 @ 18 April 2003 - 17:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ne1GotZardoz@18 April 2003 - 13:20
Receiving a microchip at birth...It will solve all government control problems, and (believe it or not), it will rob most us of much fewer freedoms than the alternative police state that could be required.

There&#39;s no reason to believe that identity theft woulnd&#39;t exist in a world of implanted chips. Despite increased security measures in the past decade or so, ID theft is at an all-time high. Can anyone name me a single security measure or device that hasn&#39;t eventually been cracked? What&#39;s stopping someone from replacing the original chip with a different one, or configuring the one they have? I thought this board was populated by sci fi fans, how can you such faith in technology with books like necromancer around? [/b][/quote]
You&#39;ll get no argument from me on that.

Part of me wishes it was feasable to do it though.

But another part of me realizes that there would be human beings in the background, controlling the software.

Human beings who most likely feel underpaid, or have political affiliations.

Human beings who can be controlled.

Hmmm...Maybe we need to give computers, control over our lives.

Yeah...Thats the ticket.

No way that can go awry. ;)

DiogenesUK
04-19-2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz+19 April 2003 - 02:04--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ne1GotZardoz @ 19 April 2003 - 02:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -myfiles3000@18 April 2003 - 17:58
<!--QuoteBegin--ne1GotZardoz@18 April 2003 - 13:20
Receiving a microchip at birth...It will solve all government control problems, and (believe it or not), it will rob most us of much fewer freedoms than the alternative police state that could be required.

There&#39;s no reason to believe that identity theft woulnd&#39;t exist in a world of implanted chips. Despite increased security measures in the past decade or so, ID theft is at an all-time high. Can anyone name me a single security measure or device that hasn&#39;t eventually been cracked? What&#39;s stopping someone from replacing the original chip with a different one, or configuring the one they have? I thought this board was populated by sci fi fans, how can you such faith in technology with books like necromancer around?
You&#39;ll get no argument from me on that.

Part of me wishes it was feasable to do it though.

But another part of me realizes that there would be human beings in the background, controlling the software.

Human beings who most likely feel underpaid, or have political affiliations.

Human beings who can be controlled.

Hmmm...Maybe we need to give computers, control over our lives.

Yeah...Thats the ticket.

No way that can go awry. ;) [/b][/quote]
I thought we already had &#33;

Not sure what it&#39;s like in the States,but here in the UK you can see the blind panic setting in with shop/pub/petrol station attendants if their electronic tills stop working.

There are some who can&#39;t even total 2 items without assistance,but I don&#39;t necessarily blame them.

I guess the inadequate school curriculum,plus the demand for cheap labour forces them into a corner.

Of course that nice Mr Gates came up with a solution to all our problems once.

He called it windoze ME :lol: :lol: :lol:

MagicNakor
04-20-2003, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz@18 April 2003 - 23:46
...Aside from that, what city do you live in?

I see a potential retirement place.
It&#39;s not a retirement place.

However, it&#39;s not in America. ;)

:ninja:

Ghozt
04-20-2003, 05:48 PM
The Implants in Question are already being tested.

KILLa 2k3
04-20-2003, 07:37 PM
If the us keeps going after countries with waepons of mass detruction why dont they tell isreal to DISARM too.

KILLa 2k3
04-20-2003, 07:38 PM
They Should tell all countries to disarm&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;?

ne1GotZardoz
04-20-2003, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by KILLa 2k3@20 April 2003 - 14:37
If the us keeps going after countries with waepons of mass detruction why dont they tell isreal to DISARM too.
Well...Lets take a look at that...Why would the US go after Saddam and not Israel?

What possible difference could there be between a country that was intent on conquering other countries, and had in fact used WMD in previous wars and against its own people, recently...and a country who is only interested in not losing it&#39;s own land to its neighbors.

How about you for example...If you had two people in your neighborhood...one who had poisoned all the neighbors&#39; pets with rat poison, and even tried to kick one guy off of his own property...and another who was in a dispute about who&#39;s property a fence was on, oh, and he has a box of rat poison too but has never used it for anything other than rats...Which would you be calling the police on?

Peace

myfiles3000
04-20-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz+20 April 2003 - 21:49--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ne1GotZardoz @ 20 April 2003 - 21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--KILLa 2k3@20 April 2003 - 14:37
If the us keeps going after countries with waepons of mass detruction why dont they tell isreal to DISARM too.
Well...Lets take a look at that...Why would the US go after Saddam and not Israel?

What possible difference could there be between a country that was intent on conquering other countries, and had in fact used WMD in previous wars and against its own people, recently...and a country who is only interested in not losing it&#39;s own land to its neighbors.

How about you for example...If you had two people in your neighborhood...one who had poisoned all the neighbors&#39; pets with rat poison, and even tried to kick one guy off of his own property...and another who was in a dispute about who&#39;s property a fence was on, oh, and he has a box of rat poison too but has never used it for anything other than rats...Which would you be calling the police on?

Peace [/b][/quote]
NE1, do you believe that Israel has committed war crimes in the past 50 years?

ne1GotZardoz
04-21-2003, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by myfiles3000@20 April 2003 - 18:10

Well...Lets take a look at that...Why would the US go after Saddam and not Israel?

What possible difference could there be between a country that was intent on conquering other countries, and had in fact used WMD in previous wars and against its own people, recently...and a country who is only interested in not losing it&#39;s own land to its neighbors.

How about you for example...If you had two people in your neighborhood...one who had poisoned all the neighbors&#39; pets with rat poison, and even tried to kick one guy off of his own property...and another who was in a dispute about who&#39;s property a fence was on, oh, and he has a box of rat poison too but has never used it for anything other than rats...Which would you be calling the police on?

Peace
NE1, do you believe that Israel has committed war crimes in the past 50 years?
I know...There is alot of debate on the subject.
In the last 50 years, what countries have not commited acts that would be definable as war crimes in time of war?
I would have to say that the whole land dispute between Irael and Palistine has resulted in numerous atrocities on both sides.

Both sides blame the other for "starting it".

The US and other countries have been trying to get them both to find a way for peace, but there have been too many variables, including terrorist factions that act, uncontrolled and uncondoned by their individual governments.

Thats two small countries. Both equally matched. Fighting on equal terms, regardless of what either would have us believe.

And there is hope there.

Oh...And the citizens of each country, for the most part, support their leadership.
And no use of WMD against each other that was condoned by either government.

What point were you making?

zapjb
04-24-2003, 04:46 PM
Next one starts March 2004. Shhhhhhhh&#33;

DiogenesUK
04-25-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by zapjb@24 April 2003 - 17:46
Next one starts March 2004. Shhhhhhhh&#33;
Blimey zapjb,I very much doubt the potential perpetrators (I wonder who that may be....lol) of that one&#39;ll keep it quiet,they don&#39;t appear to have either the intelligence nor the sophistication to do anything with even the slightest degree of subtlety.

We have an old saying here: "Taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut" make no mistake,we&#39;ll see plenty more attempts at that one in the years to come.


Todays &#39;trivia&#39; question is this: Which is the only nation on this planet who has has consistently used WMD on many occasions this century,Nuclear (twice),Napalm,Metadioxin (agent orange) to name just 3,the latter 2 used thousands of times in the late 1960&#39;s in failed attempts to crush an ideal?

Alas,no prizes for guessing,but I suspect the &#39;Ministry of truth&#39; has been hard at work justifying their use,if not (yet) trying to conceal the facts from future history studies.Unless,of course,many of their population are already brainwashed/stupid/mentally ill enough to ignore/disbelieve the truth :huh:

what???..........mass paranoia......never &#33;&#33;&#33; :blink:


Take care.



nb: before aforementioned paranoia grips any of the posters on here,I was very careful to state &#39;many&#39;........... not all.
I know just how dangerous people with paranoid delusions can be XXX :P :P :P

MagicNakor
04-25-2003, 09:58 PM
How many of you knew that the same nation forced the Japanese Emperor to renounce his divinity at the end of WWII? Just another trivia thing. ;)

:ninja:

Rat Faced
04-26-2003, 11:32 PM
So, reading this thread......

Your choice is:

1/ 1984, with Big Brother

or

2/ Brave New World


Hmmm...........neither appeals to me.

ShockAndAwe^i^
05-20-2003, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by hobbes@15 April 2003 - 02:41
I really hope not.

You need to justify the Iraqi invasion first, and this has not been done.

Even if we do, this has nothing to do with Israel.
Ummm I know this is going back a bit but..
I think the world has now seen enough justification(ie mass graves and on and on) just by what we&#39;ve already found.
It&#39;s The American people that now can ask for some justification.
The war was partly sold on the WMD question.
Saddam admitted to having these weapons and we will find them.
Or will we?
Did saddam try to bluff and play the hand on the world stage never really having any WMD?
It would&#39;nt be the first time its happened&#33;
Just a thought :rolleyes:

j2k4
05-20-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@25 April 2003 - 16:58
How many of you knew that the same nation forced the Japanese Emperor to renounce his divinity at the end of WWII? Just another trivia thing. ;)

:ninja:
Is Japan worse off for this having happened?

MacArthur&#39;s handling of Japan WAS heavy-handed-it was also unbelievably successful.
I&#39;m sure Japan&#39;s citizens don&#39;t miss the feudal system.

MagicNakor
05-21-2003, 01:04 AM
I just brought it up to showcase some of the arrogant postering. ;) More of a "And what right do they have to tell others how to live/what to believe." My history expertise is slightly further back in time. I know I&#39;ve got a number of history books on Japan; maybe one of them will be "recent" enough to flesh out some details.

:ninja:

j2k4
05-21-2003, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@20 May 2003 - 20:04
I just brought it up to showcase some of the arrogant postering. ;) More of a "And what right do they have to tell others how to live/what to believe." My history expertise is slightly further back in time. I know I&#39;ve got a number of history books on Japan; maybe one of them will be "recent" enough to flesh out some details.

:ninja:
Ah-who knows?
I have just come to regard Japan as possibly the most &#39;successful&#39; of our interventions; they even learned how to job us on the trade issue.

If we could end up with a similar result in Iraq, it would be a plus, even if Iraq became a trade monster a&#39;la Japan.

The likelihood is something less, I fear-the religious aspect bodes for a longer stewardship by the U.S.; therein lies, as of now, the seemingly insurmountable rub.

Barring some other developments, of course.......

Rat Faced
05-21-2003, 05:08 PM
Why j2k4?

Prior to the Iraq/Iran war, which wasnt so long ago, this was a very westernised country.

It had, a very advanced education and health service (the Health Service was probably better than that available in most of the USA, and certainly most of the UK). The education system was not religion orientated, but concentrated on the same aspects taught in any western school system.

Unlike most of the Arab states in the region, which havent &#39;tasted&#39; the benefits of western culture, I would say a minimum of involvement by the USA would be necessary.

The sooner the &#39;rebuilding&#39; is turned over to the UN the better.

j2k4
05-21-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Rat Faced@21 May 2003 - 12:08
Why j2k4?

Prior to the Iraq/Iran war, which wasnt so long ago, this was a very westernised country.

It had, a very advanced education and health service (the Health Service was probably better than that available in most of the USA, and certainly most of the UK). The education system was not religion orientated, but concentrated on the same aspects taught in any western school system.

Unlike most of the Arab states in the region, which havent &#39;tasted&#39; the benefits of western culture, I would say a minimum of involvement by the USA would be necessary.

The sooner the &#39;rebuilding&#39; is turned over to the UN the better.
I can&#39;t agree-

Saddam was new enough to the leadership game at that point he hadn&#39;t yet gotten around to siphoning off the cash for self-aggrandizement, and most of it was going to the war effort anyway. Once the war ended, he began his plunder; I believe this is one of the reasons getting rid of Saddam was so critical now-there are still people alive in Iraq who remember life as it was (per your post) &#39;pre-Saddam&#39;, and they will prove an asset now.

The U.N. is corrupt, and needs re-organization if it is to survive as a viable entity.
All one needs to determine this is a look at organizational tables and the make-up of the various councils; it&#39;s a joke.
Check it out; see some of the funny places where Iraq, Iran, China, Cuba, et.al. appear-you&#39;ll see what I mean.

Rat Faced
05-21-2003, 06:53 PM
Once the war ended, he began his plunder

As I said, PRIOR to the Iraq/Iran war....


The U.N. is corrupt, and needs re-organization if it is to survive as a viable entity.


I agree, as is the US Government ( and most other &#39;Democratic&#39; governments).

The difference is, that US companies dont &#39;control&#39; the UN, as they do the US government, they only have undue influence through the US Government (ie buyng votes with Aid)

j2k4
05-22-2003, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by Rat Faced@21 May 2003 - 13:53

Once the war ended, he began his plunder

As I said, PRIOR to the Iraq/Iran war....


My mistake; my point was "Pre-Saddam"-I&#39;m afraid I crossed my own wires. :D

Re: the U.N.: then if you agree that the U.N. is corrupt, and believe the U.S. to be, likewise, what then is the difference to the Iraqis?

I am positive we can better accomplish ANYTHING than the U.N. can, and any monetary benefit (doubtful) or liability (likely) will accrue to the U.S., and not the U.N.-fair enough?

As an aside, I see no problem with Iraq financing infrastructure with oil revenues; it&#39;s better used there than to rebuild palaces.

OlderThanDirt
05-24-2003, 10:39 PM
sara5564 wrote:

Nobody forget.....North Korea has the 5th largest armed forces in the world.

Remember the brouhaha between India and Pakistan over Kashmir? It&#39;s still going on, of course. But back a while, many believed it was headed toward the boiling point of nuclear confrontation. The US sent Colin Powell there to try to make peace. No cigar. Then the Russians sent a diplomat there for the same purpose. Again, no cigar. But, then the Chinese very quitely sent a 4-man diplomatic team to the region. All of sudden, things got quiet.

The nice (predictable) thing about China is it always looks after #1 (itself). Just to the North of India and Pakistan is China&#39;s heartland ... their wheat-growing region which would be in the line of a fallout path. I suspect China told them both that they have the LARGEST armed force in the world ... and that, if they felt a knife being held to their agricultural throat, Chinese troops would be paying them a visit.

Likewise with North Korea. The Korean peninsula is just South of China&#39;s major population centers. The last thing they want is a nuclear confrontation there. It&#39;s China, not the USA, that will eventually be the peacemaker there. While North Korea&#39;s gripes with the USA are fodder for the mainstream media, their gripes with China are closer to home. They rely on China for their very existence. Once, Kim Il Jung threatened China that if they didn&#39;t increase their oil-flow, he&#39;d open up the border and allow a million refugees into enter the country. China responded by temporarily cutting off the oil-flow altogether ... but (ahem) said it was the fault of a technical glitch. Kim Il Jung got the message. :D And, I imagine he&#39;s also been visited by Chinese diplomats who reminded him that his "5th largest army" might become part of the upper atmosphere unless he tows the line.

j2k4
05-24-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@24 May 2003 - 17:39

sara5564 wrote:

Nobody forget.....North Korea has the 5th largest armed forces in the world.

Remember the brouhaha between India and Pakistan over Kashmir? It&#39;s still going on, of course. But back a while, many believed it was headed toward the boiling point of nuclear confrontation. The US sent Colin Powell there to try to make peace. No cigar. Then the Russians sent a diplomat there for the same purpose. Again, no cigar. But, then the Chinese very quitely sent a 4-man diplomatic team to the region. All of sudden, things got quiet.

The nice (predictable) thing about China is it always looks after #1 (itself). Just to the North of India and Pakistan is China&#39;s heartland ... their wheat-growing region which would be in the line of a fallout path. I suspect China told them both that they have the LARGEST armed force in the world ... and that, if they felt a knife being held to their agricultural throat, Chinese troops would be paying them a visit.

Likewise with North Korea. The Korean peninsula is just South of China&#39;s major population centers. The last thing they want is a nuclear confrontation there. It&#39;s China, not the USA, that will eventually be the peacemaker there. While North Korea&#39;s gripes with the USA are fodder for the mainstream media, their gripes with China are closer to home. They rely on China for their very existence. Once, Kim Il Jung threatened China that if they didn&#39;t increase their oil-flow, he&#39;d open up the border and allow a million refugees into enter the country. China responded by temporarily cutting off the oil-flow altogether ... but (ahem) said it was the fault of a technical glitch. Kim Il Jung got the message. :D And, I imagine he&#39;s also been visited by Chinese diplomats who reminded him that his "5th largest army" might become part of the upper atmosphere unless he tows the line.
Just so-

I&#39;ve tried to point this out to those who preferred that we worry about South Korea over Iraq; China doesn&#39;t need to many cues to pull on the leash.

Thank you for your treatise, OTD. ;)

OlderThanDirt
05-24-2003, 11:42 PM
Thought I&#39;d add a little humor into the mix. What follows is a time-traveler&#39;s depiction of the United States in 2006 if we hadn&#39;t decided to take terror seriously:

A Burger King Restaurant:
http://novelhost.net/2006-burgerking.jpg

A Kentucky Fried Chicken ad poster:
http://novelhost.net/2006-kfc.jpg

A McDonald&#39;s Restaurant:
http://novelhost.net/2006-mcdonalds.jpg

The New York City skyline:
http://novelhost.net/2006-nyc.jpg

A Playboy Magazine cover:
http://novelhost.net/2006-playboy.jpg

The Statue of Liberty:
http://novelhost.net/2006-sol.jpg

A new Microsoft Windows menu screen:
http://novelhost.net/2006-windows.jpg

j2k4
05-25-2003, 04:27 AM
You 53 year-olds really have it goin&#39; on with the imagery, eh?

Now, sit back and see who &#39;doesn&#39;t get it&#39;..... :D

GOOD STUFF&#33;

echidna
05-26-2003, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by myfiles3000+19 April 2003 - 08:58--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (myfiles3000 @ 19 April 2003 - 08:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ne1GotZardoz@18 April 2003 - 13:20
Receiving a microchip at birth...It will solve all government control problems, and (believe it or not), it will rob most us of much fewer freedoms than the alternative police state that could be required.

There&#39;s no reason to believe that identity theft woulnd&#39;t exist in a world of implanted chips. Despite increased security measures in the past decade or so, ID theft is at an all-time high. Can anyone name me a single security measure or device that hasn&#39;t eventually been cracked? What&#39;s stopping someone from replacing the original chip with a different one, or configuring the one they have? I thought this board was populated by sci fi fans, how can you such faith in technology with books like necromancer around? [/b][/quote]
all this talk of chips is academic and irrelevant
they&#39;re already starting to do these things with biometrics
in SA the social security system for the townships have had to go to extreme lengths to prevent fraud [making hand print and iris scanning devices that tested to make sure that the hand or eye was still alive before verifying - to stop people taking others pensions by cutting off their hand or taking their eye]
and in the USA facial recognition tech which can locate all individuals within a CCTV network was deployed for the first time publicly at the super-bowl after S11
so this big brother system doesn&#39;t need us to get any chips
we all already have unique identifiers
ATMs and checkouts with cameras
passport free airports, [your visa is attached to your facial record]

echidna
05-26-2003, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by j2k4+25 May 2003 - 09:01--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 25 May 2003 - 09:01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--OlderThanDirt@24 May 2003 - 17:39

sara5564 wrote:

Nobody forget.....North Korea has the 5th largest armed forces in the world.

Remember the brouhaha between India and Pakistan over Kashmir? It&#39;s still going on, of course. But back a while, many believed it was headed toward the boiling point of nuclear confrontation. The US sent Colin Powell there to try to make peace. No cigar. Then the Russians sent a diplomat there for the same purpose. Again, no cigar. But, then the Chinese very quitely sent a 4-man diplomatic team to the region. All of sudden, things got quiet.

The nice (predictable) thing about China is it always looks after #1 (itself). Just to the North of India and Pakistan is China&#39;s heartland ... their wheat-growing region which would be in the line of a fallout path. I suspect China told them both that they have the LARGEST armed force in the world ... and that, if they felt a knife being held to their agricultural throat, Chinese troops would be paying them a visit.

Likewise with North Korea. The Korean peninsula is just South of China&#39;s major population centers. The last thing they want is a nuclear confrontation there. It&#39;s China, not the USA, that will eventually be the peacemaker there. While North Korea&#39;s gripes with the USA are fodder for the mainstream media, their gripes with China are closer to home. They rely on China for their very existence. Once, Kim Il Jung threatened China that if they didn&#39;t increase their oil-flow, he&#39;d open up the border and allow a million refugees into enter the country. China responded by temporarily cutting off the oil-flow altogether ... but (ahem) said it was the fault of a technical glitch. Kim Il Jung got the message. :D And, I imagine he&#39;s also been visited by Chinese diplomats who reminded him that his "5th largest army" might become part of the upper atmosphere unless he tows the line.
Just so-

I&#39;ve tried to point this out to those who preferred that we worry about South Korea over Iraq; China doesn&#39;t need to many cues to pull on the leash.

Thank you for your treatise, OTD. ;) [/b][/quote]
i wish the US would realise, as i think all nations in SE asia have, that the truth is in the numbers and china is the longterm power base worldwide
the tactics of the US are too volatile, seeking to gain position through the destabilisation of others positions, this policy has only been in effect for the last 170 odd years and it&#39;s escalation has been very rapid
while china has effectively been consolidating through many cultural incarnations for over a thousand years, concentrating on their position in the world rather than the world position compared to them
they are proven over immense time and the shear numbers means that they are the
i&#39;m not wishing for a return to the &#39;splendid isolationism&#39; of the early 20th century but i believe lessons can be learnt from the cultural diplomacy of chinese people
i&#39;m sure almost everyone on this board would have met a chinese person even if only through buying food or something, chinese people are in the communities of almost all nations
but there are few americans overseas that you meet, most US people OS are tourists and most north americans who live south of canada that i have met working have jobs which they travel with and so aren&#39;t involved with the community

i just think that yum cha is a better persuasion tool than TV or JDAMs

the game that the US is playing here is very dangerous
if the arab states are too destabilised by interventions the blow-back for the US will be horrendous
the notion that these policies will promote security is ridiculous
and the financial and societal costs of these policies are unsustainable
i hope that the US people haven&#39;t lost all control over their govt.
we should not forget what good people who do nothing can allow

j2k4
05-26-2003, 01:10 PM
Echidna-

You are not entirely off-base, here.

I&#39;ve always been curious at China&#39;s political &#39;recalcitrance&#39;, which, I suspect, is actually smugness.

They KNOW they will eventually (just HOW eventually is up in the air) dominate due to their sheer numbers; even given their clumsy methods of population control, their level of technological development gives them the edge over India in this regard.

In light of all this, when the North American/North European decline is complete, and the "white" races are gone, the only conflict left will be between Asian and Islamic peoples.

I don&#39;t know if our fellow debaters are aware of our impending "doom", but as none of this is likely to happen in our lifetime, I, for one, will be happy to
&#39;go&#39; with the current flow. B)

echidna
05-26-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by j2k4@26 May 2003 - 23:10
Echidna-

You are not entirely off-base, here.

I&#39;ve always been curious at China&#39;s political &#39;recalcitrance&#39;, which, I suspect, is actually smugness.

They KNOW they will eventually (just HOW eventually is up in the air) dominate due to their sheer numbers; even given their clumsy methods of population control, their level of technological development gives them the edge over India in this regard.

In light of all this, when the North American/North European decline is complete, and the "white" races are gone, the only conflict left will be between Asian and Islamic peoples.

I don&#39;t know if our fellow debaters are aware of our impending "doom", but as none of this is likely to happen in our lifetime, I, for one, will be happy to
&#39;go&#39; with the current flow. B)
i don&#39;t think it might be that long - the USA seems less than stable [as i have mentioned] from afar.
also, don&#39;t forget thet north america will be almost all spanish speaking by the end of this century.
and calling china smug - wel the pot and the kettle can argue all day as to who is blacker :lol:
[i wish the dragon and the eagle would play nicer]

j2k4
05-26-2003, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by echidna@26 May 2003 - 08:35
i don&#39;t think it might be that long - the USA seems less than stable [as i have mentioned] from afar.
also, don&#39;t forget thet north america will be almost all spanish speaking by the end of this century.
and calling china smug - wel the pot and the kettle can argue all day as to who is blacker :lol:
[i wish the dragon and the eagle would play nicer]
1) I agree the U.S. will likely be peopled largely by the latinos-I think, though, it will still be "The United States of America", and I hope the English language will have survived.

2) Don&#39;t make the mistake of thinking for even one second that the U.S. is anything BUT the epitome of stability. Even Clinton couldn&#39;t screw it up, and he tried, believe me.

3) China IS smug, and it&#39;s smugness predates the discovery of the Americas.
They regard foreign diplomacy as a "game" that must be played to while away the time between now and their &#39;eventual and inevitable&#39; triumph over all.

It&#39;s a good thing we have our forum/sandbox to play in-I could get depressed at our long-term prospect. :lol:

TheDave
05-30-2003, 02:50 PM
:( :( :( i wanna goto syria before its full of mcdonalds and starbucks :( :( :(

clocker
05-30-2003, 02:52 PM
Knock yourself out, Bucko.

MagicNakor
05-30-2003, 07:51 PM
I think Syria likely has a McDonalds. ;)

:ninja:

clocker
05-30-2003, 08:48 PM
You&#39;re right.

Their one cultural concession was to make the drive through window accomodate herds of goats.