View Full Version : Ho hum, another huge hurricane...
I hear that Bush wasn't able to avoid notifying the black population of the impending tumult, owing to inordinately well-prepared personnel and comprehensive policies at the state- and local-levels, as well as the increased alertness and overall paranoia caused by Katrina.
Minister Farrakhan's fair-warning about the nefarious white-instigated plan to blow holes in the Galveston sea-wall has also taken that tactic from Bush's arsenal, much to the President's chagrin.
Bush's plan to hoard Texas coastal real-estate is thus defeated.
BTW-A very good and intelligent friend of mine pointed out that the footage of hurricane-damage in New Orleans also revealed absolutely stunning numbers of road-ready vehicles (take your pick!) strewn about the city; pity all the people who stayed behind couldn't see them, too, and use them to leave the city...of course, if the media has described you as "unable to leave", I guess you have to stay put, huh?
ZeroTolerance
09-22-2005, 01:07 AM
i stay in houston im finsta leave right now
i stay in houston im finsta leave right now
Leave yourself enough time, please?
It's going to be nasty.
Busyman
09-22-2005, 01:35 AM
I hear that Bush wasn't able to avoid notifying the black population of the impending tumult, owing to inordinately well-prepared personnel and comprehensive policies at the state- and local-levels, as well as the increased alertness and overall paranoia caused by Katrina.
Minister Farrakhan's fair-warning about the nefarious white-instigated plan to blow holes in the Galveston sea-wall has also taken that tactic from Bush's arsenal, much to the President's chagrin.
Bush's plan to hoard Texas coastal real-estate is thus defeated.
BTW-A very good and intelligent friend of mine pointed out that the footage of hurricane-damage in New Orleans also revealed absolutely stunning numbers of road-ready vehicles (take your pick!) strewn about the city; pity all the people who stayed behind couldn't see them, too, and use them to leave the city...of course, if the media has described you as "unable to leave", I guess you have to stay put, huh?
[/rant]
The...FUCK....ARE....YOU....TALKING........ABOUT!!!
You talk to or get an email from one of your conservative friends and the first thing that comes to mind, spills into a new thread. :lol: :lol:
Regardless of who stayed/left the timetable on the rescue effort sucked no matter who had a vehicle. A relative of a friend of mine died 4 days after the storm hit and was not able to leave.
Think for yourself next time.
whypikonme
09-22-2005, 02:07 AM
What a disgusting fucking post!
Have you lost your fucking marbles at last?
Everose
09-22-2005, 02:14 AM
I hear that Bush wasn't able to avoid notifying the black population of the impending tumult, owing to inordinately well-prepared personnel and comprehensive policies at the state- and local-levels, as well as the increased alertness and overall paranoia caused by Katrina.
Minister Farrakhan's fair-warning about the nefarious white-instigated plan to blow holes in the Galveston sea-wall has also taken that tactic from Bush's arsenal, much to the President's chagrin.
Bush's plan to hoard Texas coastal real-estate is thus defeated.
BTW-A very good and intelligent friend of mine pointed out that the footage of hurricane-damage in New Orleans also revealed absolutely stunning numbers of road-ready vehicles (take your pick!) strewn about the city; pity all the people who stayed behind couldn't see them, too, and use them to leave the city...of course, if the media has described you as "unable to leave", I guess you have to stay put, huh?
[/rant]
The...FUCK....ARE....YOU....TALKING........ABOUT!!!
You talk to or get an email from one of your conservative friends and the first thing that comes to mind, spills into a new thread. :lol: :lol:
Regardless of who stayed/left the timetable on the rescue effort sucked no matter who had a vehicle. A relative of a friend of mine died 4 days after the storm hit and was not able to leave.
Yeah, I guess it would be hard to leave if you were dead.
Think for yourself next time.
I regret your friend's relative won't have that chance.
peat moss
09-22-2005, 02:43 AM
Yikes the hurricane season is not over till November ? The poor bastards .
I hear that Bush wasn't able to avoid notifying the black population of the impending tumult, owing to inordinately well-prepared personnel and comprehensive policies at the state- and local-levels, as well as the increased alertness and overall paranoia caused by Katrina.
Minister Farrakhan's fair-warning about the nefarious white-instigated plan to blow holes in the Galveston sea-wall has also taken that tactic from Bush's arsenal, much to the President's chagrin.
Bush's plan to hoard Texas coastal real-estate is thus defeated.
BTW-A very good and intelligent friend of mine pointed out that the footage of hurricane-damage in New Orleans also revealed absolutely stunning numbers of road-ready vehicles (take your pick!) strewn about the city; pity all the people who stayed behind couldn't see them, too, and use them to leave the city...of course, if the media has described you as "unable to leave", I guess you have to stay put, huh?
I'm with you J2.
I live in Austin, Texas (about 2.5 hrs away during NON evacuation drive-time) and my mom and grandparents are coming from Houston in the morning to come stay with me, while my dad is going to hold down the house. I was going to go to Houston in the morning to listen to The Dalai Lama speak at Rice Univ. and then weather the storm with my dad, but the speech has been canceled. *mumbles....stupid Rita*
I hear that Bush wasn't able to avoid notifying the black population of the impending tumult, owing to inordinately well-prepared personnel and comprehensive policies at the state- and local-levels, as well as the increased alertness and overall paranoia caused by Katrina.
Minister Farrakhan's fair-warning about the nefarious white-instigated plan to blow holes in the Galveston sea-wall has also taken that tactic from Bush's arsenal, much to the President's chagrin.
Bush's plan to hoard Texas coastal real-estate is thus defeated.
BTW-A very good and intelligent friend of mine pointed out that the footage of hurricane-damage in New Orleans also revealed absolutely stunning numbers of road-ready vehicles (take your pick!) strewn about the city; pity all the people who stayed behind couldn't see them, too, and use them to leave the city...of course, if the media has described you as "unable to leave", I guess you have to stay put, huh?
[/rant]
The...FUCK....ARE....YOU....TALKING........ABOUT!!!
Regardless of who stayed/left the timetable on the rescue effort sucked no matter who had a vehicle. A relative of a friend of mine died 4 days after the storm hit and was not able to leave.
Think for yourself next time.
My friend was not "thinking for me", Busyman.
I had merely forgone comment, as I was aware that to do so would draw the ire of people such as yourself; and, as such people are often wont to say, the truth hurts, don't it?
Just imagine:
Your life is threatened by the huge (oh, and boyoboyoboy, I mean flippin' HUGE!!!) hurricane-you are desperate-you and yours are surely going to perish if you do not leave-but...THERE IS A CAR, UNATTENDED! PERHAPS YOU COULD USE IT TO LEAVE THE IMPERILED AREA!?!?!??....BUT NO!!!! IT IS NOT A PROPERLY-LABELLED GOVERNMENT-PROVIDED RELIEF VEHICLE, AND IS NOT SUITABLE FOR EMERGENCY USE!
SURELY THE POLICE WOULD SOON STOP ME AND PLACE ME UNDER ARREST ME AND TAKE ME TO...SAFETY?
No. that would make too much sense, and besides, if I leave, I can't blame Bush.
A relative of a friend of yours, huh?
Why couldn't this person leave, B.?
Do you know that?
What other ways out of the city existed for this person?
Could he/she have ridden out on one of the "driverless" buses that Nagin couldn't manage to dispatch?
I am sorry for your friend's loss, B., but if I could trouble you to explain why this unfortunate death belongs so squarely in Bush's hands?
Or is it merely reflex?
BTW-
What do you think about Farrakhan's idiotic statement?
Why...me:
Please feel free to take any lost marbles you might find and shove them up your ass; they're probably yours, anyway.
I'm with you J2.
That's fine, but not without substantial risk.
It's kinda like being in a...hurricane.
Please sign the appropriate waivers and pay the filing fees.
Everose
09-22-2005, 11:43 AM
That City needs another Mayor.
He demands the feds should get there yesterday to help save the people he should have made local efforts to evacuate before the storm. The feds do get there, and take charge, and what does he do? Ignores their authority and urges 'his' people that he is supposedly so concerned about to come back into the city before it is safe for them to do so.
Wonder how he would have reacted to the feds coming in before the hurricane and 'forcing' evacuation by gunpoint?
Rat Faced
09-22-2005, 12:04 PM
Your life is threatened by the huge (oh, and boyoboyoboy, I mean flippin' HUGE!!!) hurricane-you are desperate-you and yours are surely going to perish if you do not leave-but...THERE IS A CAR, UNATTENDED! PERHAPS YOU COULD USE IT TO LEAVE THE IMPERILED AREA!?!?!??....BUT NO!!!! IT IS NOT A PROPERLY-LABELLED GOVERNMENT-PROVIDED RELIEF VEHICLE, AND IS NOT SUITABLE FOR EMERGENCY USE!
SURELY THE POLICE WOULD SOON STOP ME AND PLACE ME UNDER ARREST ME AND TAKE ME TO...SAFETY?
No. that would make too much sense, and besides, if I leave, I can't blame Bush.
[/B]
A Republican advocating Looting, despite the fact a couple of weeks ago the Republicans were up in arms about looters and "they should all be shot"..
...now i heard it all. :rolleyes:
Tell me J2, would you have accepted the excuse before or after the shooting?
Rat Faced
09-22-2005, 12:05 PM
That City needs another Mayor.
I agree.
That country also needs a new President. :P
Santa
09-22-2005, 12:22 PM
ive been reading time magazine latelly - i thought they would be more biased pro government
when alot of what i read is infact criticizing alot of what bush has achieved...
in this one they blame the beaurocracy of nagin, the governor, xdirector fema , and the secretary. - the next article is soley on bush "living too much in the bubble?" - subtle scynicism. and with all this the war in iraq is not getting anymore popular.
http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/2005/1101050919_400.jpg
vidcc
09-22-2005, 03:56 PM
some very unchristian attitudes being displayed here.
Busyman
09-22-2005, 06:02 PM
[/rant]
The...FUCK....ARE....YOU....TALKING........ABOUT!!!
You talk to or get an email from one of your conservative friends and the first thing that comes to mind, spills into a new thread. :lol: :lol:
Regardless of who stayed/left the timetable on the rescue effort sucked no matter who had a vehicle. A relative of a friend of mine died 4 days after the storm hit and was not able to leave.
Yeah, I guess it would be hard to leave if you were dead.
Think for yourself next time.
I regret your friend's relative won't have that chance.
I regret that you didn't think to STFU before thAt dumbass post. :ermm:
Busyman
09-22-2005, 06:20 PM
[/rant]
The...FUCK....ARE....YOU....TALKING........ABOUT!!!
Regardless of who stayed/left the timetable on the rescue effort sucked no matter who had a vehicle. A relative of a friend of mine died 4 days after the storm hit and was not able to leave.
Think for yourself next time.
My friend was not "thinking for me", Busyman.
I had merely forgone comment, as I was aware that to do so would draw the ire of people such as yourself; and, as such people are often wont to say, the truth hurts, don't it?
Just imagine:
Your life is threatened by the huge (oh, and boyoboyoboy, I mean flippin' HUGE!!!) hurricane-you are desperate-you and yours are surely going to perish if you do not leave-but...THERE IS A CAR, UNATTENDED! PERHAPS YOU COULD USE IT TO LEAVE THE IMPERILED AREA!?!?!??....BUT NO!!!! IT IS NOT A PROPERLY-LABELLED GOVERNMENT-PROVIDED RELIEF VEHICLE, AND IS NOT SUITABLE FOR EMERGENCY USE!
SURELY THE POLICE WOULD SOON STOP ME AND PLACE ME UNDER ARREST ME AND TAKE ME TO...SAFETY?
No. that would make too much sense, and besides, if I leave, I can't blame Bush.
A relative of a friend of yours, huh?
Why couldn't this person leave, B.?
Do you know that?
What other ways out of the city existed for this person?
Could he/she have ridden out on one of the "driverless" buses that Nagin couldn't manage to dispatch?
I am sorry for your friend's loss, B., but if I could trouble you to explain why this unfortunate death belongs so squarely in Bush's hands?
Or is it merely reflex?
BTW-
What do you think about Farrakhan's idiotic statement?
Why...me:
Please feel free to take any lost marbles you might find and shove them up your ass; they're probably yours, anyway.
Here's one for the dipshit above.....
He was in the hospital.
You and Evey may harp on what you like about the evacuation and you are partially right and that's where you, j2 show your blindness and Evey tries to show she's unbiased.
One must ask...if this was a known terrorist strike, would help be five days behind or will I hear more shit about how the local authorities weren't up to snuff.
Bush is the fucking President, you dimwits, of supposedly the most powerful nation on the Earth. A more hands on approach (simply paying attention) would help.
Everose
09-22-2005, 06:21 PM
I regret your friend's relative won't have that chance.
I regret that you didn't think to STFU before thAt dumbass post. :ermm:
I don't. I have a friend who has helped in the Astrodome in downtown Houston. 70% of them are sitting around letting women volunteers wait on them hand and foot........able bodied young men that should be able to look out and lend a hand to themselves when it comes to daily chores. But no, they make comments like they shouldn't have to do stuff for themselves, because after all, they are victims of the hurricane.
And you want me to feel generous about them? That 70% doesn't deserve it.
Busyman
09-22-2005, 06:29 PM
I regret that you didn't think to STFU before thAt dumbass post. :ermm:
I don't. I have a friend who has helped in the Astrodome in downtown Houston. 70% of them are sitting around letting women volunteers wait on them hand and foot........able bodied young men that should be able to look out and lend a hand to themselves when it comes to daily chores. But no, they make comments like they shouldn't have to do stuff for themselves, because after all, they are victims of the hurricane.
And you want me to feel generous about them? That 70% doesn't deserve it.
Generousity? Who the fuck are you?
It seems these "facts" that you state precluded a rescue effort for 5 days. That Bush must be a precog.....
vidcc
09-22-2005, 06:47 PM
I don't. I have a friend who has helped in the Astrodome in downtown Houston. 70% of them are sitting around letting women volunteers wait on them hand and foot........able bodied young men that should be able to look out and lend a hand to themselves when it comes to daily chores. But no, they make comments like they shouldn't have to do stuff for themselves, because after all, they are victims of the hurricane.
And you want me to feel generous about them? That 70% doesn't deserve it.
Grandstanding from the feminist there....you make a poor conservative lady if you don't think it's a woman's duty to bring the men their slippers and meal ;) :lol:
But you raise a valid point rose. Being a victim at one point in time doesn't mean easy street from then on.
These people may not have the means to supply themselves with basic essentials like food, water and shelter but they can supply manpower. I do believe that any civilised society should help the needy....I don't believe that this gives the needy the right to be parasites. In other words help them to help themself.
I would add that I can understand an unwillingness for a husband and father to let his family out of sight for even a short time given some of the unlawful things that happened in N.O., however it is my understanding that there is effective security supplied now.
Busyman
09-22-2005, 06:55 PM
These people may not have the means to supply themselves with basic essentials like food, water and shelter but they can supply manpower. I do believe that any civilised society should help the needy....I don't believe that this gives the needy the right to be parasites. In other words help them to help themself.
I would add that I can understand an unwillingness for a husband and father to let his family out of sight for even a short time given some of the unlawful things that happened in N.O., however it is my understanding that there is effective security supplied now.
Add to that that I heard on the radio that money being given for essentials is being used for glamour items like Prada bags and whatnot.
There was some dumbitch on the radio saying that she understands a victim using part of their $2000 from the government being used for such things. :frusty:
Your life is threatened by the huge (oh, and boyoboyoboy, I mean flippin' HUGE!!!) hurricane-you are desperate-you and yours are surely going to perish if you do not leave-but...THERE IS A CAR, UNATTENDED! PERHAPS YOU COULD USE IT TO LEAVE THE IMPERILED AREA!?!?!??....BUT NO!!!! IT IS NOT A PROPERLY-LABELLED GOVERNMENT-PROVIDED RELIEF VEHICLE, AND IS NOT SUITABLE FOR EMERGENCY USE!
SURELY THE POLICE WOULD SOON STOP ME AND PLACE ME UNDER ARREST ME AND TAKE ME TO...SAFETY?
No. that would make too much sense, and besides, if I leave, I can't blame Bush.
[/B]
A Republican advocating Looting, despite the fact a couple of weeks ago the Republicans were up in arms about looters and "they should all be shot"..
...now i heard it all. :rolleyes:
Tell me J2, would you have accepted the excuse before or after the shooting?
That's quite a leap you're making, Rat.
Remember the parable about the man who steals a loaf of bread?
Rat Faced
09-22-2005, 07:31 PM
Thankfully, i dont know that one...
However I do remember the hell on when the looting was underway..and most of it appeared to be for food/water.
Not all of it, granted... but most of it.
One must ask...if this was a known terrorist strike, would help be five days behind or will I hear more shit about how the local authorities weren't up to snuff.
The fact is that it was not a terrorist strike, which would have fallen immediately to the President's hand, and quite properly.
The forces that were "on-site" (for lack of a better term) were not in play because Nagin and/or Blanco refused to allow their control to be federalized, even temporarily; you see, they are guilty of playing politics, and genuinely did not want a Republican to be seen as acting effectively in any relief effort.
Blanco herself admits she didn't ask for federal help (which means she refused to relinquish state control) until two days after landfall.
Bush is the fucking President, you dimwits, of supposedly the most powerful nation on the Earth. A more hands on approach (simply paying attention) would help.
I have not said anywhere that Bush is blameless; to the contrary, I have said quite the opposite.
You, on the other hand, are so consumed and obsessed with blaming Bush that you are allowing your hatred of the man to compel you to make the pathetic and downright stupid arguments you are making in this thread.
Drop your politically-correct bullshit and talk straight, B.
There is a command-hierarchy for such emergencies, and the top two slots were occupied by Democrats who were out-of-their-depth.
No matter what Bush's culpability in the matter, that is the unavoidably salient and operative fact.
If you don't like that, tough shit, pal.
Rat Faced
09-22-2005, 07:46 PM
Strange then how the Whitehouse had to withdraw their accusation that she had not asked for federal help, after it was pointed out she asked for it officially 2 days BEFORE the landfall.... reported in your media at that time (Ialready posted where in that timetable).
The President also took steps BEFORE the landfall that made it a Federal matter, so i'd heard... taking the authority out of the States hands.
Think we better wait for the Congresional Investigation?
some very unchristian attitudes being displayed here.
How would you know?
The short blurb below your av informs me, vid.
And since when is plain talk unchristian?
Strange then how the Whitehouse had to withdraw their accusation that she had not asked for federal help, after it was pointed out she asked for it officially 2 days BEFORE the landfall.... reported in your media at that time (Ialready posted where in that timetable).
Since my information comes from a direct quote of Blanco herself, I believe I'm holding trump, Rat.
BTW-
As to your willingness to believe your gleanings from our media, you'd do well to remember that your own Auntie Beeb is far from infallible or agenda-free (as has been proven recently), but for purposes here I will stipulate she is probably more reliable than ours. ;)
Rat Faced
09-22-2005, 08:48 PM
If you mean Dr Kelly... that is by no way proven.
Indeed, the Governemnt is still taking flack, and new evidence is surfacing all the time that suggests the BBC's stance was correct afterall. :P
If you mean Dr Kelly... that is by no way proven.
Indeed, the Governemnt is still taking flack, and new evidence is surfacing all the time that suggests the BBC's stance was correct afterall. :P
As you wish.
It's yours, after all, and as such I can understand your reluctance to see her wrinkles and ideological incontinence. :P
Rat Faced
09-22-2005, 09:02 PM
Not balanced like Fox?
Not balanced like Fox?
I think things have progressed/regressed well beyond any useful discussion of balance in any information medium.
They're all tainted, and Auntie Beeb is ideologically syphilitic.
My opinion, of course.
Santa
09-22-2005, 09:53 PM
Strange then how the Whitehouse had to withdraw their accusation that she had not asked for federal help, after it was pointed out she asked for it officially 2 days BEFORE the landfall.... reported in your media at that time (Ialready posted where in that timetable).
according to time magazine
on the ....friday after the hurricanne, Bush asked Blanco if she would be willing to relinquish control of the local law enforcement and 13,268 national guard troops from 29 states.
"Blanco considered this an odd move given that federal control would not in itself mean any additional troops, and would prohibit the guard under Possecomitatus act from acting as policemen. She thought the request had a political motive. It would allow Washington to come in and claim credit for a relief operation that was already in progress".....
GepperRankins
09-22-2005, 10:25 PM
what's ideological syphilis? http://moderation.invisionzone.com/style_emoticons/default/dabs.gif
Santa
09-22-2005, 10:30 PM
one question
did hurricane rita not just pass over northern Cuba and other islands north of cuba/ south of florida?
there has been no news from that side of the world
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/GMEX/VIS/20.jpg
By golly, you're right.
Haven't heard a thing, and I have news on all day, every day... :huh:
Everose
09-23-2005, 12:17 AM
I don't. I have a friend who has helped in the Astrodome in downtown Houston. 70% of them are sitting around letting women volunteers wait on them hand and foot........able bodied young men that should be able to look out and lend a hand to themselves when it comes to daily chores. But no, they make comments like they shouldn't have to do stuff for themselves, because after all, they are victims of the hurricane.
And you want me to feel generous about them? That 70% doesn't deserve it.
Generousity? Who the fuck are you?
Just me, Busy. I am one that if I had a relative that I knew would not be able to evacuate his or herself in the event of an impending hurricane, and that relative lived in an area known to be effected, I myself would do my best to see that plans were made for this relative's evacuation when necessary. I guess I just don't see myself not taking responsibility myself and then pointing fingers at a distant federal government
I also find it rather disturbing that you seem to feel that I am defending Bush or the Federal Government by saying we as American's shouldn't count on either of them being right there the minute we need them. If our country was the size of say, Texas, I would probably feel differently about it. But as it is......if we are to expect this 'instant federal help'....why do we have local and state governments that also tax us for first responders and emergency preparedness?
Kind of different expectations, I guess. If I lived where you lived I would expect federal government help much sooner. :D
It seems these "facts" that you state precluded a rescue effort for 5 days. That Bush must be a precog.....
If I could understand what you mean here, I would try and answer you.
100% I heard they sustained winds up to 60 to 70 miles per hour....gusting into 90 miles an hour. A lot of evacuees there, too, around twenty thousand in shelters, another two hundred thousand or so housed with relatives. We should know more though, and hope to get more info soon.
Busyman
09-23-2005, 01:14 AM
Generousity? Who the fuck are you?
Just me, Busy. I am one that if I had a relative that I knew would not be able to evacuate his or herself in the event of an impending hurricane, and that relative lived in an area known to be effected, I myself would do my best to see that plans were made for this relative's evacuation when necessary. I guess I just don't see myself not taking responsibility myself and then pointing fingers at a distant federal government
I also find it rather disturbing that you seem to feel that I am defending Bush or the Federal Government by saying we as American's shouldn't count on either of them being right there the minute we need them. If our country was the size of say, Texas, I would probably feel differently about it. But as it is......if we are to expect this 'instant federal help'....why do we have local and state governments that also tax us for first responders and emergency preparedness?
Kind of different expectations, I guess. If I lived where you lived I would expect federal government help much sooner. :D
It seems these "facts" that you state precluded a rescue effort for 5 days. That Bush must be a precog.....
If I could understand what you mean here, I would try and answer you.
5 days Evey. You would agree that this was not a normal disaster by any stretch wouldn't you?
What if the Feds were never called? You think they should've waited some more? Maybe Bush could go, "Well...they didn't call us." :ermm:
Use the noggin.
Irregardless to the evacuation, you are reaching.
There are some that will not be evacuated. Your school of thought is, "Too bad." A blanket statement that sucks. You don't know everyone's situation. Everyone situation doesn't match (your made up) 70% in the Astrodome.
It sounds like you actually are defending Bush 'cause with what you say.....it sounds like he has no culpabilty. He sat and waited for the call and didn't get it...."What was he supposed to do?"...."if I don't get the call then I can't possibly help the worst natural disaster in American history"..."Only most of a small part of the US is under water and the leaders didn't call me in a timely manner so those fuckers down will wait...wait a work week."
Everose
09-23-2005, 03:00 AM
If I could understand what you mean here, I would try and answer you.
5 days Evey. You would agree that this was not a normal disaster by any stretch wouldn't you?
What if the Feds were never called? You think they should've waited some more? Maybe Bush could go, "Well...they didn't call us." :ermm:
Use the noggin. Was that necessary?
Irregardless to the evacuation, you are reaching.
For what am I reaching? A lesson learned...notes took? Yes, then you are right......I am reaching. I guess it seems to be a starting point that we are disputing, you and I.........from what point do we start our notes for our lessons learned?
There are some that will not be evacuated. Your school of thought is, "Too bad." A blanket statement that sucks. You don't know everyone's situation. Everyone situation doesn't match (your made up) 70% in the Astrodome.
No, actually that is not my school of thought 'too bad'. How did you come to this conclusion. Oh, I see what is bugging you. No, it is not made up. It is the perception of a friend of mine who has volunteered there. Actually, I had read an article of a man who was volunteering there. He put the percentages out based on his perspective and the fact that not only would they not do any physical labor, like help move beds, but they wouldn't even clean their dinner space, but left it for volunteers to clean. And not only that, but when offered bottled water, they complained and insisted on pop. And when offered pop, they complained and demanded beer. When offered very good food, they complained that they wanted McDonalds, Burger King or Pizza. I found his percentages and his rant a little hard to believe and asked my friend about it thinking it surely wasn't true. She sadly agreed with him, but very much wanted me to know that 10 % are ill or really can't help themselves and 20% or so are very appreciative of the help they are getting, and do all they can to help themselves and others. I wouldn't let it get my back up Busy...it is just perceptions. And maybe after they are over the shock of it all, they will kick in and do their part in the recovery. My response could have been a little jaded as my friend is health compromised herself right now and I am a bit worried and stressed that she placed herself in that position at this time, anyway. Sorry if I came across as flippant, but those were the perceptions given me by someone whose perceptions I do tend to trust.
It sounds like you actually are defending Bush 'cause with what you say.....it sounds like he has no culpabilty. He sat and waited for the call and didn't get it...."What was he supposed to do?"...."if I don't get the call then I can't possibly help the worst natural disaster in American history"..."Only most of a small part of the US is under water and the leaders didn't call me in a timely manner so those fuckers down will wait...wait a work week."
I do not like Bush, Busy. But I feel I know enough about what we can reasonably expect from local, state and federal governments when. And I don't really want a federal government that charges right in and interferes militarily in states' affairs. The few times they have done this haven't sat well with the states, you know. So yes, there is a protocol. Actually, I would be a lot more concerned about a President that thought he was all powerful that way. And it would be nice if we could pick and choose. Have an all powerful federal government when we want it and not one when we don't want it. There are a lot of issues that need examined here. Locally, State and Federally. I just don't leap to the federal as fast as you do. Heck, I am still pissed that a lot of the levee board's funds were diverted to their plans to build a resort island there. Guess I just don't expect or demand as much from old Bush as you do. :)
Busyman
09-23-2005, 03:26 AM
5 days Evey. You would agree that this was not a normal disaster by any stretch wouldn't you?
What if the Feds were never called? You think they should've waited some more? Maybe Bush could go, "Well...they didn't call us." :ermm:
Use the noggin. Was that necessary?
Irregardless to the evacuation, you are reaching.
For what am I reaching? A lesson learned...notes took? Yes, then you are right......I am reaching. I guess it seems to be a starting point that we are disputing, you and I.........from what point do we start our notes for our lessons learned?
There are some that will not be evacuated. Your school of thought is, "Too bad." A blanket statement that sucks. You don't know everyone's situation. Everyone situation doesn't match (your made up) 70% in the Astrodome.
No, actually that is not my school of thought 'too bad'. How did you come to this conclusion. Oh, I see what is bugging you. No, it is not made up. It is the perception of a friend of mine who has volunteered there. Actually, I had read an article of a man who was volunteering there. He put the percentages out based on his perspective and the fact that not only would they not do any physical labor, like help move beds, but they wouldn't even clean their dinner space, but left it for volunteers to clean. And not only that, but when offered bottled water, they complained and insisted on pop. And when offered pop, they complained and demanded beer. When offered very good food, they complained that they wanted McDonalds, Burger King or Pizza. I found his percentages and his rant a little hard to believe and asked my friend about it thinking it surely wasn't true. She sadly agreed with him, but very much wanted me to know that 10 % are ill or really can't help themselves and 20% or so are very appreciative of the help they are getting, and do all they can to help themselves and others. I wouldn't let it get my back up Busy...it is just perceptions. And maybe after they are over the shock of it all, they will kick in and do their part in the recovery. My response could have been a little jaded as my friend is health compromised herself right now and I am a bit worried and stressed that she placed herself in that position at this time, anyway. Sorry if I came across as flippant, but those were the perceptions given me by someone whose perceptions I do tend to trust.
Hey it could very well be 70%. However, the fact that you brought this up in context with talking about a 5 day rescue speaks volumes. I hate the fact that money is being given to help folks with essentials and some is being spent on glamour items. I wouldn't bring it up right after there's a remark about Bush though. :dry:
Person 1 - "Bush took 5 days to mount a rescue operation"
Person 2 - "Those people down there are not even helping in the Astrodome and all they do is complain."
:blink:
It sounds like you actually are defending Bush 'cause with what you say.....it sounds like he has no culpabilty. He sat and waited for the call and didn't get it...."What was he supposed to do?"...."if I don't get the call then I can't possibly help the worst natural disaster in American history"..."Only most of a small part of the US is under water and the leaders didn't call me in a timely manner so those fuckers down will wait...wait a work week."
I do not like Bush, Busy. But I feel I know enough about what we can reasonably expect from local, state and federal governments when. And I don't really want a federal government that charges right in and interferes militarily in states' affairs. The few times they have done this haven't sat well with the states, you know. So yes, there is a protocol. Actually, I would be a lot more concerned about a President that thought he was all powerful that way. And it would be nice if we could pick and choose. Have an all powerful federal government when we want it and not one when we don't want it. There are a lot of issues that need examined here. Locally, State and Federally. I just don't leap to the federal as fast as you do. Heck, I am still pissed that a lot of the levee board's funds were diverted to their plans to build a resort island there. Guess I just don't expect or demand as much from old Bush as you do. :)
Uh yeah like charging in when the biggest natural disaster hits this country.(oops I said that already). But Oh man, honor that hierarchy and shit!!! :O :ermm:
Again use the noggin'. This ain't a matter of simple interference Evey. Don't compare this to something like a bank robbery or serial killer investigation.....but oh shit, the Feds jump right in there 'cause it's in the manual and warrants the Feds serious attention as opposed to.........a great chunk of a state of the United States under water. :dry:
Everose
09-23-2005, 03:57 AM
I do not like Bush, Busy. But I feel I know enough about what we can reasonably expect from local, state and federal governments when. And I don't really want a federal government that charges right in and interferes militarily in states' affairs. The few times they have done this haven't sat well with the states, you know. So yes, there is a protocol. Actually, I would be a lot more concerned about a President that thought he was all powerful that way. And it would be nice if we could pick and choose. Have an all powerful federal government when we want it and not one when we don't want it. There are a lot of issues that need examined here. Locally, State and Federally. I just don't leap to the federal as fast as you do. Heck, I am still pissed that a lot of the levee board's funds were diverted to their plans to build a resort island there. Guess I just don't expect or demand as much from old Bush as you do. :)
Uh yeah like charging in when the biggest natural disaster hits this country.(oops I said that already). But Oh man, honor that hierarchy and shit!!! :O :ermm:
Again use the noggin'. This ain't a matter of simple interference Evey. Don't compare this to something like a bank robbery or serial killer investigation.....but oh shit, the Feds jump right in there 'cause it's in the manual and warrants the Feds serious attention as opposed to.........a great chunk of a state of the United States under water. :dry:
Actually I pretty well stand by what I have said. It begins with responsibility for self. And for those neighbors that are unable to be responsible for theirselves---I would find a way to help them. Sorry you don't see it that way. I would no more live below sea level without a boat (even a hand made one from scrap) than I would expect help from a far away federal government. As I said originally.....no government can be prepared for a disaster of this magnitude. So we do what we can to be prepared for it ourselves and to help those who cannot help themselves. To parallel what is going on in Houston to what went on in NO.........I would not spend two thousand dollars given to me to get on my feet in strip bars and designer stores.
Busyman
09-23-2005, 05:12 AM
Uh yeah like charging in when the biggest natural disaster hits this country.(oops I said that already). But Oh man, honor that hierarchy and shit!!! :O :ermm:
Again use the noggin'. This ain't a matter of simple interference Evey. Don't compare this to something like a bank robbery or serial killer investigation.....but oh shit, the Feds jump right in there 'cause it's in the manual and warrants the Feds serious attention as opposed to.........a great chunk of a state of the United States under water. :dry:
Actually I pretty well stand by what I have said. It begins with responsibility for self. And for those neighbors that are unable to be responsible for theirselves---I would find a way to help them. Sorry you don't see it that way. I would no more live below sea level without a boat (even a hand made one from scrap) than I would expect help from a far away federal government. As I said originally.....no government can be prepared for a disaster of this magnitude. So we do what we can to be prepared for it ourselves and to help those who cannot help themselves. To parallel what is going on in Houston to what went on in NO.........I would not spend two thousand dollars given to me to get on my feet in strip bars and designer stores.
Sighhhhhh Evey, Evey...
I never said I disagreed with responsibility for self. You missed the point.
No matter what......5 FUCKING DAYS.
Whether the victims were prepared or not.
You group all the victims the same and sound like crap when you do it.
You are wrong. PERIOD. I said it before...I wonder if our President thinks like (you and) Hank. It's quite obvious to him this was outta sight outta mind.
No matter what reasons you may sight....complainers in the Astrodome, people could've stolen an SUV, Nagin didn't force folk at gunpoint to get on the buses in a full bus lot.....
It took a full work week. :dry:
3RA1N1AC
09-23-2005, 12:13 PM
I would no more live below sea level without a boat (even a hand made one from scrap) than I would expect help from a far away federal government.
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/9303/wwgd3005wg.gif
Peerzy
09-23-2005, 04:29 PM
The reason for the increased size and amount of hurricanes is because of all the global warming in that part of the world.
Bush however will not stop polluting the earth because it would "ruin the American economy".
Rat Faced
09-23-2005, 04:39 PM
Much cheaper to rebuild cities :P
The Governor would not give control of the police to the feds for a very good reason apparently.
Hank posted it shortly after the Hurricane struck...
Martial Law is not allowed under the State Laws... so she wasn't legally empowered to give control of the police to the Feds.
Now we cant blame her OR Bush for that little snippet... its something that individual State's will have to take into account and look at in their own systems. A way for all the people doing the work to have one leader so to speak... ie: An ability to have Martial Law imposed.
HeavyMetalParkingLot
09-23-2005, 05:56 PM
....... is because of all the global warming in that part of the world.
Wow, I did not know GLOBAL warming was restricted to one part of the world.
....... is because of all the global warming in that part of the world.
Wow, I did not know GLOBAL warming was restricted to one part of the world.
You beat me to it, HMPL.
I think he has "Global Warming" confused with "That Part Of The World Warming" which is a colloquial peculiarity.
I've heard it is geographically coincidental with the location of our President.
Gripper
09-23-2005, 10:14 PM
Which part of the word is pumping the most hydocarbons into the atmosphere?
Which part of the word is pumping the most hydocarbons into the atmosphere?
China.
Bet you didn't know that.
Rat Faced
09-23-2005, 11:23 PM
Well... since the USA accounts for 25%, then China and the USA between them must account for over half of the emmisions of the entire world... :blink:
I'd disagree..
They probably do contribute the most via power stations, however 40% of the emmisions throughout the world are through vehicles, farm machinery etc..
Not many peasants in China have cars (yet), and not many Farmers there have tractors (yet) :P
That tips the balance a little..
I bet Europe contributes a lot more than China overall... but again, not as much as far as Power Generation is concerned.
peat moss
09-23-2005, 11:36 PM
Its why its called a global problem , and why the Kyoto Protocol is so important . Why won't the Americans sign it ?
Well... since the USA accounts for 25%, then China and the USA between them must account for over half of the emmisions of the entire world... :blink:
I'd disagree..
They probably do contribute the most via power stations, however 40% of the emmisions throughout the world are through vehicles, farm machinery etc..
Not many peasants in China have cars (yet), and not many Farmers there have tractors (yet) :P
That tips the balance a little..
I bet Europe contributes a lot more than China overall... but again, not as much as far as Power Generation is concerned.
I wish we could see our way clear to built afew nuke plants, but the movie The China Syndrome played to the ignorance of Joe six-pack and we're backwards in that department for sure.
Funny though, how China's industrial pollution policies suck donkey-dick, but the problem of global-warming is attributed almost exclusively to American autos.
Funny, too, that Bush has legitimate entree to influence U.S. industrial policy, but very little as to how Americans utilize their cars; the ACLU would jump his shit if he tried to dictate anything along the lines of a fuel-usage restriction-remember:
Government intrusiveness is only bad if a Republican does it.
Funnier yet is the notion that, while global-warming has been round since Al Gore invented it, it has only had the effect of generating horrendous hurricanes since Bush has been in office.
Must be that old phenomenon known as the "Republican Weather-Cycle", huh? :huh:
Its why its called a global problem , and why the Kyoto Protocol is so important . Why won't the Americans sign it ?
Just remind me-
Why is Kyoto so important?
What is it you contend that adherence to the protocols will achieve?
Everose
09-24-2005, 12:57 AM
Kyoto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol#Position_of_the_United_States)
Peat.....I have been trying to get through this, but it will take some time. It seems to give a view of various country's position on the agreement, and where the US Government stands. I keep taking side trips, and it is taking forever to get through this. :P
Kyoto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol#Position_of_the_United_States)
Peat.....I have been trying to get through this, but it will take some time. It seems to give a view of various country's position on the agreement, and where the US Government stands. I keep taking side trips, and it is taking forever to get through this. :P
Oh, please, please don't wade throught that drivel...you'll only get a rash from it's toxicity-they won't tell you it is poisonous, and absolutely lethal to business and consumerism..
peat moss
09-24-2005, 01:29 AM
I'd be a liar if I said I understood it all . Anything that the UN has their dirty little hands in I would question . Wish Canada had you two on our team before we signed it because we'll never make the quota either . Its a pipe dream while in theory has merit but how do you police it ?
vidcc
09-24-2005, 01:52 AM
evil is not a demon with a tail and horns. That's a Jew. And evil - evil isn't some spectral goblin with red eyes and the voice of Anthony Hopkins. That's Anthony Hopkins.
Is George Bush purely evil? Of course not. And that's what's so evil about him. He doesn't twirl a mustache and smirk and cackle. Well, he doesn't twirl a mustache. He's like the Peanuts character Pigpen. Wherever he goes, he stirs up such a humongous mess it can only be cleaned up by Halliburton. But he is not pure evil.
Because evil is a chain. Did any one person doom New Orleans? No, it's a chain. People vote for a corrupt leader; a corrupt leader puts unqualified cronies in high places, and when those cronies fuck up, evil gets done. The devil didn't fly up from hell and knock a hole in that levee. The levee just didn't get built because the money for it went to rich people's tax cuts and pork projects and corporate welfare.
Evil isn't "Salem's Lot." It's Trent Lott. This week, an ailing American bald eagle was found to be dying from mercury poisoning. Republicans immediately tried to blame it on the eagle's lifestyle choices. But it's worth noting that also this week, the White House threatened to veto limits on mercury pollution. Now, pure evil would be if George Bush sat around the White House saying, "Let's poison eagles!" And even I don't believe George Bush would do that....Cheney would do that.... And even he is not pure evil. Dick Cheney doesn't hate poor children and caribou. They're just in the way.
Bottom line: some people think Satan is real and some people think global warming is real. If you think stopping gays from doing it is more important than the ice caps melting, the boogeyman is you...
Gripper
09-24-2005, 08:35 AM
I don't drive,if I need to go anywhwere of a distance I use public transport.
How many of you jump in the car just to travel a mile or less to the shop,or just round the corner.
A decent bicycle and a rucksack can be used quite easily for those little trips,granted if you're doing heavy shopping,by all means use your car,so many people are to fucking lazy.
Yes I did know it was china,hopefully once a few of there city's get struck with smog they will start to do something about it.
Which part of the word is pumping the most hydocarbons into the atmosphere?
China.
Bet you didn't know that.The world's second-largest emitter of greenhouse gases is China.
HeavyMetalParkingLot
09-24-2005, 12:12 PM
I don't drive,if I need to go anywhwere of a distance I use public transport.
How many of you jump in the car just to travel a mile or less to the shop,or just round the corner.
A decent bicycle and a rucksack can be used quite easily for those little trips,granted if you're doing heavy shopping,by all means use your car,so many people are to fucking lazy.
Now if only the majority of people lived a mile or less from the shop.....
Peerzy
09-24-2005, 01:13 PM
Which part of the word is pumping the most hydocarbons into the atmosphere?
China.
Bet you didn't know that.
In America, heavy gas hogging trucks and SUV's have outsold normal cars for 5 years in a row.
Everose
09-24-2005, 01:21 PM
Would be nice if public transportation was available here. We have a senior citizen's bus. :P
Lot of variables in my area. Long distances to get to certain medical care, for instance. Guess if I used my vacation time, I could plan a weeks bicycling time to make a yearly appointment for a physical. :P
Okay, am done with the smart arsing now. :lol: I do live within a three block area of things like our local post office, grocery store, etc. When starting from my home to places like that, I walk.
HeavyMetalParkingLot
09-24-2005, 01:27 PM
In America, heavy gas hogging trucks and SUV's have outsold normal cars for 5 years in a row.
How long did it take you to google that?
Funny that you didn't notice the best selling vehicle in the U.K. last year was the Ford F150. Funny you also didn't notice it was the best selling vehicle in the world in 2004. But you wouldn't mention that, now would you?
Peerzy
09-24-2005, 02:01 PM
I didn't need to google for it. It was in the back of my Nuts magazine under the facts section.
I didn't need to google for it. It was in the back of my Nuts magazine under the facts section.
You subscribe to a periodical devoted to the subject of testicles? :huh:
Peerzy
09-24-2005, 02:15 PM
I didn't need to google for it. It was in the back of my Nuts magazine under the facts section.
You subscribe to a periodical devoted to the subject of testicles? :huh:
No (http://www.nutsmag.co.uk/)
You subscribe to a periodical devoted to the subject of testicles? :huh:
No (http://www.nutsmag.co.uk/)
You mean it's called "Nuts" and it's not about testicles?
:P :lol:
Oh, I see...
It's called "Nuts" and it's about boobs!
Makes perfect sense. :D
Funny that you didn't notice the best selling vehicle in the U.K. last year was the Ford F150. :lol: :lol: I know, we just can't move for them.
Oh, wait, I think I mean we hardly ever see any. Does that mean that we've stopped selling vehicles over here. :blink:
I suspect you mean that the best selling US import is the Ford F150. But since hardly anyone imports vehicles from the US it doesn't loom that big on our radar.
Rat Faced
09-24-2005, 03:35 PM
I'd never even heard of the Ford F150..
And the Uk Ford site doesn't even list it as available in this country...
Great Googling there HMPL :rlleyes:
It turns out that the F150 is so poorly made it is really just a lump of Heavy Metal.
Presumably they are all stuck in a HeavyMetalParkingLot :P
HeavyMetalParkingLot
09-24-2005, 05:09 PM
Funny that you didn't notice the best selling vehicle in the U.K. last year was the Ford F150. :lol: :lol: I know, we just can't move for them.
Oh, wait, I think I mean we hardly ever see any. Does that mean that we've stopped selling vehicles over here. :blink:
I suspect you mean that the best selling US import is the Ford F150. But since hardly anyone imports vehicles from the US it doesn't loom that big on our radar.
I didn't seem to have any problems......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/thisweek/
Rat Faced
09-24-2005, 05:14 PM
From the article...
So, what IS the world's best selling car? Well, the title gives the game away a bit, but still, we think you will agree, it's a bit of a surprise to find out that it's a car you may well never have heard of. But it's also a surprise that the world's favourite car is a Ford. And that it's a pick-up truck.
But what is truly the biggest surprise of all, is that the world's best-selling car is pretty hopeless. Although we do accept that the F150 isn't really made for the UK it's also suffering from a rather large dose of "American build quality". So, basically, the inside looks like it's fashioned out of old melted boots, and none of the trim fits properly.
HMPL... it isnt the biggest seller here.
Even the article you found admits we probably havent heard of it..
Anyway, back on topic, no word from Hank, who seems likely to have been run over by Rita.
This is not so good... :huh:
peat moss
09-25-2005, 03:59 PM
Hopefully its just the power being down .
Rat Faced
09-25-2005, 04:15 PM
Im sure he's ok...
I hope he's ok :unsure:
Everose
09-25-2005, 04:17 PM
How long was he planning to be in France?
Hopefully its just the power being down .
Yes, hopefully...
It's that he's a bit further inland than New Orleans, and may have felt a bit too safe, as Rita was supposed to track fairly well west of him.
I know he'd said he'd go if the need arose; he wasn't gonna be one of the stubborn ones, but if events overtook him, I suppose anything could have happened.
I've shot him a PM, and await any response. :huh:
How long was he planning to be in France?
Ah.
Totally forgot about that.
He left....hold on-let me look...
Shit, I deleted it, because it contained the word France...
Just got this from Hank-
Still in Pari'. I'm at an internet station checking email an checking on people from home.
Everyone in my family made it through the storm fine, although they all told me that it was very rough.
I'm leaving for the states tomorrow afternoon.
I'll let you know what happened when I get back to the states.
Please excuse any spelling or grammer errors because I have only a certain amout of time on an internet card that I purchased.
Thanks,
Hank
Everose
09-26-2005, 12:12 AM
I will be concentrating on his safe return, then! Thanks for sharing, J2!! :)
Rat Faced
09-26-2005, 10:27 PM
@ J2k4...
For your information, from your Department of Defence Website; interview on 1st September.
Q General, Jamie McIntyre from CNN. To what extent is this additional assistance you've outlined today a response to a request from the state governors in Louisiana, Mississippi? And if so, can you tell us when specifically you got that request?
GEN. HONORÉ: Yes, sir. The process starts, sir, in this particular event, with a request Friday of last week, as the approximate date for defense coordinating offices to be established in Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. Those were established in those states over Friday and Saturday.
That makes it 26th August that the Feds were asked by the State to come in
The problem was that:
It's fair to say the majority of the forces going to Louisiana are security-type forces, sir.
They were more concerned about Looters than survivors...
http://www.dod.gov/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html
@ J2k4...
For your information, from your Department of Defence Website; interview on 1st September.
That makes it 26th August that the Feds were asked by the State to come in
The problem was that:
It's fair to say the majority of the forces going to Louisiana are security-type forces, sir.
They were more concerned about Looters than survivors...
http://www.dod.gov/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html
Somebody had to be:
http://www.zippyvideos.com/8911023771013466/countdown-looting-in-walmart/
Rat Faced
09-27-2005, 10:16 PM
Ah...
Forgot the Capitalist viewpoint that property and money are worth more than life.
My Bad :rolleyes:
Ah...
Forgot the Capitalist viewpoint that property and money are worth more than life.
My Bad :rolleyes:
Honestly, Rat-where do you get this shit?
Did you google that? :huh:
Rat Faced
09-28-2005, 08:16 AM
No.
Thats what you implied by your answer above.
No.
Thats what you implied by your answer above.
I did no such thing.
I am not responsible any flaws in your deductive capacity.
Busyman
09-28-2005, 07:26 PM
No.
Thats what you implied by your answer above.
I did no such thing.
I am not responsible any flaws in your deductive capacity.
Sighhhhhh...then what is it then? Can we buy a vowel?
Answer - It simply breaks the law. It costs the insurance companies money
I did no such thing.
I am not responsible any flaws in your deductive capacity.
Sighhhhhh...then what is it then? Can we buy a vowel?
Answer - It simply breaks the law. It costs the insurance companies money
Not at all-I simply didn't have the time or inclination to give that silly presumption the treatment you all seem to think it deserves.
I'm not going to be drawn into a half-baked argument about race over this.
I did have that link handy though, and I got it from a member of this board who any of you would generally characterize as liberal.
I told him that if I posted it, it would be seen as racist.
Was I right? :)
Busyman
09-28-2005, 07:51 PM
Sighhhhhh...then what is it then? Can we buy a vowel?
Answer - It simply breaks the law. It costs the insurance companies money
Not at all-I simply didn't have the time or inclination to give that silly presumption the treatment you all seem to think it deserves.
I'm not going to be drawn into a half-baked argument about race over this.
I did have that link handy though, and I got it from a member of this board who any of you would generally characterize as liberal.
I told him that if I posted it, it would be seen as racist.
Was I right? :)
Wtf are you on about now? I honestly wasn't thinking about race but I keep forgetting some of your past posts where your racedar starts beeping when everyone else's seems broken. :ermm:
Hell Rat wasn't talking about race either.
Oh and we already saw the link...before you posted it. You missed the point.
Oh, you're still on the "money over life" thing?
Can anyone argue that law-enforcement would have been as desirable as any life-saving efforts, what with the lawlessness that pervaded after Katrina?
I'm not just talking about looting, guys-people who had life-saving intentions were scared away by the presenting danger of marauding shootists and other low-lifes.
I am most emphatically NOT advocating saving Wal-Mart's wares over any life-saving effort.
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