View Full Version : The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction"
vidcc
10-07-2005, 03:09 PM
By Laura McPhee
Republican lawmakers are drafting new legislation that will make
marriage a requirement for motherhood in the state of Indiana,
including specific criminal penalties for unmarried women who do
become pregnant "by means other than sexual intercourse."
According to a draft of the recommended change in state law, every
woman in Indiana seeking to become a mother throu gh assisted
reproduction therapy such as in vitro fertilization, sperm donation,
and egg donation, must first file for a "petition for parentage" in
their local county probate court.
Only women who are married will be considered for the "gestational
certificate" that must be presented to any doctor who facilitates the
pregnancy. Further, the "gestational certificate" will only be given
to married couples that successfully complete the same screening
process currently required by law of adoptive parents.
As it the draft of the new law reads now, an intended parent "who
knowingly or willingly participates in an artificial reproduction
procedure" without court approval, "commits unauthorized
reproduction, a Class B misdemeanor." The criminal charges will be
the same for physicians who commit "unauthorized practice of
artificial reproduction."
The change in Indiana law to require marriage as a condition for
motherhood and criminalizing "unauthorized reproduction" was
introduced at a summer meeting of the Indiana General Assembly's
Health Finance Commission on September 29 and a final version of the
bill will come up for a vote at the next meeting at the end of this
month.
Republican Senator Patricia Miller is both the Health Finance
Commission Chair and the sponsor of the bill. She believes the new
law will protect children in the state of Indiana and make parenting
laws more explicit.
According to Sen. Miller, the laws prohibiting surrogacy in the
state of Indiana are currently too vague and unenforceable, and that
is the purpose of the new legislation.
"But it's not just surrogacy," Miller told NUVO. " The law is vague
on all types of extraordinary types of infertility treatment, and we
wanted to address that as well."
"Ordinary treatment would be the mother's egg and the father's
sperm. But now there are a lot of extraordinary thing s that raise
issues of who has legal rights as parents," she explained when asked
what she considers "extraordinary" infertility treatment.
Sen. Miller believes the requirement of marriage for parenting is
for the benefit of the children that result from infertility
treatments.
"We did want to address the issue of whether or not the law should
allow single people to be parents. Studies have shown that a child
raised by both parents - a mother and a father - do better. So, we
do want to have laws that protect the children," she explained.
When asked specifically if she believes marriage should be a
requirement for motherhood, and if that is part of the bill's
intention, Sen. Miller responded, "Yes. Yes, I do."
A draft of the legislation is available on the Health Finance
Commission website
here (http://www.in.gov/legislative/interim/committee/prelim/HFCO04.pdf)
source (http://www.boomantribune.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2005/10/3/223530/406)
Considering the plans to dump Roe vs Wade and ban Plan B, this is essentially an Unauthorized Sexual Intercourse bill.
Just a misdemeanor, understand, in their compassion they are distinguishing themselves from the Taliban by not recommending execution as penalty, for the woman, naturally, boys will be boys and all that.
But the most exciting element is that this could be another big step toward educating American women that their bodies are the property of the state, who shall be the sole determinant of how their organs of generation shall be utilized, to what end, and by whom.
Why is it that the party that is supposed to be for small government is the one that wishes to interfere in the most personal part of our lives?
Virtualbody1234
10-07-2005, 03:45 PM
Wow! And I thought the topic was going to be something about the unauthourized reproduction of data.
The government is just going too far.
MagicNakor
10-07-2005, 05:26 PM
I sincerely hope that gets tossed.
:shuriken:
Busyman
10-07-2005, 06:12 PM
Wtf?
What bullshit.
I've always had the contention that a woman on welfare would have to get the birth control shot but this is ridiculous. At least in the birth control case, they are trying get money from the state. The state should be able to have certain conditions.
This unauthorized reproduction shit is unconstitutional and I would love to hear from a conservative board member on this.
Tbh this sounds so bad it must be a joke.
NikkiD
10-07-2005, 06:13 PM
Sad. Very sad.
Busyman
10-07-2005, 06:28 PM
Sad. Very sad.
Something like this should have to go through referendum and not just pass through a smaller legislative body.
What a complete load of bollocks that is.
F'king outrageous
NikkiD
10-07-2005, 06:39 PM
Sad. Very sad.
Something like this should have to go through referendum and not just pass through a smaller legislative body.
Dictatorship anyone?
I totally agree with you on this Busyman - hopefully so do the members of the Indiana State Legislature.
JPaul
10-07-2005, 07:02 PM
Wtf?
This unauthorized reproduction shit is unconstitutional ....
Can you tell me how.
I'm not saying it isn't, I just want to understand this whole "unconstitutional" thing. It crops up quite a lot here and can be confusing for non-USAers.
Somebody testing the waters or making a point, that's all-Democrats just did it by introducing a bill to re-institute the draft, which went down in flames.
Constitutionality is not the issue, as it would be a bank-shot off the (at best) questionable existence of privacy law, but it will never happen.
An attempt too illustrate absurdity by being absurd.
There you go, Busyman; I assume any of us Conservatives will do? :dry:
GepperRankins
10-07-2005, 07:36 PM
an attempt to illustrate absurdity by being absurd?
what?!
vidcc
10-07-2005, 07:57 PM
Legislator drops controversial plan
By Mary Beth Schneider
A controversial proposed bill to prohibit gays, lesbians and single people from using medical procedures to become pregnant has been dropped by its legislative sponsor.
State Sen. Patricia Miller, R-Indianapolis, issued a one-sentence statement this afternoon saying: “The issue has become more complex than anticipated and will be withdrawn from consideration by the Health Finance Commission.”
Miller had asked that committee -- a panel of lawmakers who meet when the Indiana General Assembly is not in session to discuss possible legislation -- to recommend the bill to the full legislature when it meets in January.
Under her proposal, couples who need assistance to become pregnant -- such as through intrauterine insemination; the use of donor eggs, embryos and sperm; in vitro fertilization, embryo transfer or other medical means -- would have to be married to each other. In addition, married couples who needed donor sperm and eggs to become pregnant would be required to go through the same rigorous assessment process of their fitness to be parents as do people who adopt a child.
Miller had earlier acknowledged that the legislation would be "enormously controversial." It had already drawn fire from the Indiana Civil Liberties Union and Planned Parenthood of Indiana.
source (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051005/NEWS01/51005006/1006)
Seems common sense prevailed
3RA1N1AC
10-08-2005, 02:28 PM
"by means other than sexual intercourse."
it's a good thing for The Virgin Mary that she weren't from Indiana!
Busyman
10-08-2005, 02:42 PM
it's a good thing for The Virgin Mary that she weren't from Indiana!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Quality
Wonder how rape would have been covered?
Everose
10-08-2005, 02:50 PM
State Sen. Patricia Miller, R-Indianapolis, issued a one-sentence statement this afternoon saying: “The issue has become more complex than anticipated and will be withdrawn from consideration by the Health Finance Commission.”
It never ceases to amaze me. One would think one would think. Even if we would disregard the rights issues...........can you imagine a State Government equipped to deal with the type of enforcement it would take for crap like this? :lol: They would have to throw HIPPA right down the drain. :frusty:
clocker
10-08-2005, 04:20 PM
Somebody testing the waters or making a point, that's all-
An attempt too illustrate absurdity by being absurd.
I'm glad to hear that our legislators are all caught up on the real work of government and have time to indulge in such recherche pursuits.
I think Sen. Miller was simply using her pulpit to define her image with an eye to upcoming political aspirations.
I'll bet her campaign contributions increase exponentially.
Busyman
10-08-2005, 07:07 PM
Somebody testing the waters or making a point, that's all-
An attempt too illustrate absurdity by being absurd.
I'm glad to hear that our legislators are all caught up on the real work of government and have time to indulge in such recherche pursuits.
I think Sen. Miller was simply using her pulpit to define her image with an eye to upcoming political aspirations.
I'll bet her campaign contributions increase exponentially.
Good point.
It was like the pursuit of defining marriage between a man and a woman in the Constitution. :shifty:
Somebody testing the waters or making a point, that's all-
An attempt too illustrate absurdity by being absurd.
I'm glad to hear that our legislators are all caught up on the real work of government and have time to indulge in such recherche pursuits.
Surely you are aware that this impetus which we call wasteful is bi-partisan in nature, and compels perhaps 95% of all legislative action? ;)
Busyman
10-08-2005, 10:47 PM
I'm glad to hear that our legislators are all caught up on the real work of government and have time to indulge in such recherche pursuits.
Surely you are aware that this impetus which we call wasteful is bi-partisan in nature, and compels perhaps 95% of all legislative action? ;)
......and it is deserving of derision.
clocker
10-08-2005, 11:08 PM
Surely you are aware that this impetus which we call wasteful is bi-partisan in nature, and compels perhaps 95% of all legislative action? ;)
And that is relevant how?
Did Sen. Miller have Democratic backers I am unaware of?
Face it j2, this is just another clarion call to Christian conservatives by a mush-headed politician (who, in this case, is indubitably Republican).
Even the good Senator in her wildest dreams could not have thought this proposal would bear fruit, but it is an excellent way to show that she hates queers, immigrants and any other non-white Christians as much as the powerful core constituancy of her party.
backlash
10-09-2005, 01:15 AM
this is way out of control. I feel like this country is regressing right in front of my eyes.
Surely you are aware that this impetus which we call wasteful is bi-partisan in nature, and compels perhaps 95% of all legislative action? ;)
And that is relevant how?
Did Sen. Miller have Democratic backers I am unaware of?
Face it j2, this is just another clarion call to Christian conservatives by a mush-headed politician (who, in this case, is indubitably Republican).
Even the good Senator in her wildest dreams could not have thought this proposal would bear fruit, but it is an excellent way to show that she hates queers, immigrants and any other non-white Christians as much as the powerful core constituancy of her party.
I was making the perfectly reasonable point that the great majority of our legislators' activities are efforts expended in service of self-perpetuation or, as in this case, stupid, felt causes mis- or mal-perceived, and that the phenomenon of the impetus is not manifested in only one party.
I should add that the attribution of this quality exclusively to only one or the other of the two prevalent political parties in our country is indicative of a closed mind.
In other words, I am not accusing you of Ruthie-ness, but merely noting that your post was Ruthie-like.
vidcc
10-09-2005, 01:43 AM
I was making the perfectly reasonable point that the great majority of our legislators' activities are efforts expended in service of self-perpetuation or, as in this case, stupid, felt causes mis- or mal-perceived, and that the phenomenon of the impetus is not manifested in only one party.
I should add that the attribution of this quality exclusively to only one or the other of the two prevalent political parties in our country is indicative of a closed mind.
This does kind of go against the right wings stance that the democrats are the party of NO ideas ;)
I was making the perfectly reasonable point that the great majority of our legislators' activities are efforts expended in service of self-perpetuation or, as in this case, stupid, felt causes mis- or mal-perceived, and that the phenomenon of the impetus is not manifested in only one party.
I should add that the attribution of this quality exclusively to only one or the other of the two prevalent political parties in our country is indicative of a closed mind.
This does kind of go against the right wings stance that the democrats are the party of NO ideas ;)
I'm not quite sure what you intend that to mean in relation to my post, but the gist of it is ironic in that, if we ever suffer the ignominy of another liberal President, you will have absolutely no basis from which to claim relevancy for any subsequent remarks you will no doubt still feel compelled to make. :D
Well done!
clocker
10-09-2005, 02:16 AM
I was making the perfectly reasonable point that the great majority of our legislators' activities are efforts expended in service of self-perpetuation
OKey-dokey.
Now, back to Sen. Miller and her reproductive purity act.
What do think of her?
Busyman
10-09-2005, 02:18 AM
, if we ever suffer the ignominy of another liberal President,
What an idiotic statement in light of the current tenure of the President. :ermm:
Busyman
10-09-2005, 02:20 AM
I was making the perfectly reasonable point that the great majority of our legislators' activities are efforts expended in service of self-perpetuation
OKey-dokey.
Now, back to Sen. Miller and her reproductive purity act.
What do think of her?
Good luck clocker. ;)
I was making the perfectly reasonable point that the great majority of our legislators' activities are efforts expended in service of self-perpetuation
OKey-dokey.
Now, back to Sen. Miller and her reproductive purity act.
What do think of her?
I don't know her, I'm not familiar with her, and I don't have any compelling urge to wade through what must be a thoroughly misguided legislative effort, as it is easily and properly judged by it's surface components.
That she labels herself a Republican is unfortunate for the party, I'd say.
What do you think of Senator Robert Byrd, D-Virginia? :P
Busyman
10-09-2005, 02:24 AM
OKey-dokey.
Now, back to Sen. Miller and her reproductive purity act.
What do think of her?
I don't know her, I'm not familiar with her, and I don't have any compelling urge to wade through what must be a thoroughly misguided legislative effort, as it is easily and properly judged by it's surface components.
That she labels herself a Republican is unfortunate for the party, I'd say.
What do you think of Senator Robert Byrd, D-Virginia? :P
Name some shit he's done.
edit: I know who he is. It's West Virginia and he's that fucking dick ass ex-Klansman that said he met "white niggers" on the news.
He is one good reason to keep affirmative action. :P
, if we ever suffer the ignominy of another liberal President,
What an idiotic statement in light of the current tenure of the President. :ermm:
A distinctly uncharitable remark here in the land of free speech. :dry:
clocker
10-09-2005, 02:35 AM
What do you think of Senator Robert Byrd, D-Virginia? :P
http://www.wrybread.com/gammablablog/images/5-03/byrd.jpg
Seems avuncular enough, why?
Does he want to regulate reproduction too?
I don't know her, I'm not familiar with her, and I don't have any compelling urge to wade through what must be a thoroughly misguided legislative effort, as it is easily and properly judged by it's surface components.
That she labels herself a Republican is unfortunate for the party, I'd say.
What do you think of Senator Robert Byrd, D-Virginia? :P
Name some shit he's done.
Don't be an asshole, Busyman.
If you're a fan of his, say it, then we'll get down to cases.
Perhaps you could begin by defending his tenure in the KKK early on, or maybe you'd care to explain why, when he was banging on recently about "niggers" we didn't hear a fucking peep out of you?
If you want to troll, that's fine and dandy, just don't bring that shit in front of me, 'cuz you'll end up covered with it.
Busyman
10-09-2005, 02:43 AM
What an idiotic statement in light of the current tenure of the President. :ermm:
A distinctly uncharitable remark here in the land of free speech. :dry:
When have I ever been charitable or stifled free speech? :huh:
Clinton in my left hand or Bush in my right hand. I'd cut off my right hand....and it be the obvious choice.
When I asked about "The Accomplishments Of Bush", I wasn't fucking around trying to be smartassed. I buckle down and think logically about what a President is fucking doing for the good of the country by the decisions they make.
It blows my mind when followers support particular decisions he makes whether that follower is a staunch Republican or simply just likes the guy.
The same went for when Clinton lied to Congress because it embarassed the office but it pales in comparison to the numerousfuckupcurrentshitthecountryisin.
Busyman
10-09-2005, 02:55 AM
Name some shit he's done.
Don't be an asshole, Busyman.
If you're a fan of his, say it, then we'll get down to cases.
Perhaps you could begin by defending his tenure in the KKK early on, or maybe you'd care to explain why, when he was banging on recently about "niggers" we didn't hear a fucking peep out of you?
If you want to troll, that's fine and dandy, just don't bring that shit in front of me, 'cuz you'll end up covered with it.
You don't be an asshole?
Read my edit. It was before your post.
and it was "white niggers"
You picked the wrong one buddy. Do you actually fucking think I'm a partyline hardliner.....like yourself?
Fuck Byrd and fuck you. Democrat ain't my religion and unlike some a you brainless fucks, I don't support some dickheads decisions 'cause he "is my party candidate."
Do you actually think people across the ocean care if the President is Democrat or Republican? Fuck no. They are simply are looking at the actions of the President with some logicalness. We elect a President and they see if shit comes flying from the US to their hometown.
When I asked about "The Accomplishments Of Bush", I wasn't fucking around trying to be smartassed. I buckle down and think logically about what a President is fucking doing for the good of the country by the decisions they make.
It blows my mind when followers support particular decisions he makes whether that follower is a staunch Republican or simply just likes the guy.
.
Given the claim you make in the first sentence, I'd question both the quality of your buckle and your ability to operate it after reading the second sentence.
Good night.
Busyman
10-09-2005, 02:58 AM
When I asked about "The Accomplishments Of Bush", I wasn't fucking around trying to be smartassed. I buckle down and think logically about what a President is fucking doing for the good of the country by the decisions they make.
It blows my mind when followers support particular decisions he makes whether that follower is a staunch Republican or simply just likes the guy.
.
Given the claim you make in the first sentence, I'd question both the quality of your buckle and your ability to operate it after reading the second sentence.
Good night.
Yeah and Bush is in the negative integers. :ermm:
Given the claim you make in the first sentence, I'd question both the quality of your buckle and your ability to operate it after reading the second sentence.
Good night.
Yeah and Bush is in the negative integers. :ermm:
I can't decipher that, sorry.
And WTF about your "edit" re: Byrd?
Am I now supposed to re-read the whole fucking thread to catch your corrections, honestly entered or not?
Is this or is this not a PROGRESSION of posts?
If you want, you could go all the way back to the beginning of the thread and edit yourself, couldn't you?
You bang on that I withhold my opinion for maximum effect; it's true-ask anyone who debates, they will tell you it is a time-honored tactic.
Wasn't my denunciation of this twit from Indiana sufficient for you, or did you somehow interpret it as "blind support" of "my" party?
Get your buckle fixed.
peat moss
10-09-2005, 03:23 AM
To be honest I don't understand American politics either but If had to vote between
j2k4 (Conservative ) Busyman (Republican ) or Everyrose (Democrat) I'd be lost !
Did I get that half right ? :)
Busyman
10-09-2005, 07:53 AM
Yeah and Bush is in the negative integers. :ermm:
I can't decipher that, sorry.
I buckle down and think logically about what a President is fucking doing for the good of the country by the decisions they make.
And WTF about your "edit" re: Byrd?
Am I now supposed to re-read the whole fucking thread to catch your corrections, honestly entered or not?
Is this or is this not a PROGRESSION of posts?
If you want, you could go all the way back to the beginning of the thread and edit yourself, couldn't you?
Cool. It just showed your post was irrelevant is all since I did know of him and thought him to be shit.
You bang on that I withhold my opinion for maximum effect; it's true-ask anyone who debates, they will tell you it is a time-honored tactic.
Wasn't my denunciation of this twit from Indiana sufficient for you, or did you somehow interpret it as "blind support" of "my" party?
Tbh, I was surprised. I mean I hear you neocons support some outrageous stuff. I watch movies for shit like this and am writing some screenplays and some of this shit I hear from you, manny and Hank is..shall we say supposed to be imaginative. However, here it is in real life. It actually boggles me.
Busyman
10-09-2005, 08:09 AM
To be honest I don't understand American politics either but If had to vote between
j2k4 (Conservative ) Busyman (Republican ) or Everyrose (Democrat) I'd be lost !
Did I get that half right ? :)
Nope.
j2 is conservative and Republican (they go hand in hand plus conservative is not a party).
Evey is Democrat with Republican leanings.
I am in neither party.
I am
for welfare reform
anti-Iraq War
Pro-choice
against gay marriage (for my own selfish reasons)
for small government
for moment of silence in schools (if you don't want to pray, STFU and let others that do....pray)
against ID and creationism is science class
against the Patriot Act
pro-gun control reform but against banning them
against private use eminent domain
extremely tightening our borders
against the Medicare Advantage/Prescription Drug Benefit
and so on..........
To be honest I don't understand American politics either but If had to vote between
j2k4 (Conservative ) Busyman (Republican ) or Everyrose (Democrat) I'd be lost !
Did I get that half right ? :)
No.
j2k4-Conservative
Ruthie/Scroff-Liberal
EVERYONE ELSE-Liberal, but pretending to be Independent, with a whatever's convenient, grab-bag, stay out of the corner, stay on the fence strategy, so that they are invulnerable to debate.
JPaul
10-09-2005, 03:48 PM
I'm socialist, how does that fit into your groups.
Busyman
10-09-2005, 04:03 PM
To be honest I don't understand American politics either but If had to vote between
j2k4 (Conservative ) Busyman (Republican ) or Everyrose (Democrat) I'd be lost !
Did I get that half right ? :)
No.
j2k4-Conservative
Ruthie/Scroff-Liberal
EVERYONE ELSE-Liberal, but pretending to be Independent, with a whatever's convenient, grab-bag, stay out of the corner, stay on the fence strategy, so that they are invulnerable to debate.
Most everyone else on here is liberal.
There are more cons to pick out of this liberal pot though:
B.Helto
spinningfreemanny
BigBank Hank (interesting that's the name of a member from rap group Sugarhill Gang)
TROUBLEMAKER
Voetsek
Skizo (a Texan)
My views are on the table and have been. I have debated at length many times alone and outnumbered in my viewpoint. Some viewpoints by conservatives are not even conservative viewpoints at all.
The Iraq War, for instance, is just about a conservative making a decision and many conservative following along like sheep. It was not a conservative ideal unless one considers that the rationale related some weird revenge for Bush Sr.....even then that's madness talk. Still pretty much the cons followed along and everyone else didn't.
My views are no where near a "convenient, grab-bag, stay out of the corner, stay on the fence strategy," Not by a long shot.
I'm socialist, how does that fit into your groups.
I am not capable of catagorizing you, JP.
You are beyond that. :)
No.
j2k4-Conservative
Ruthie/Scroff-Liberal
EVERYONE ELSE-Liberal, but pretending to be Independent, with a whatever's convenient, grab-bag, stay out of the corner, stay on the fence strategy, so that they are invulnerable to debate.
Most everyone else on here is liberal.
There are more cons to pick out of this liberal pot though:
B.Helto
spinningfreemanny
BigBank Hank (interesting that's the name of a member from rap group Sugarhill Gang)
TROUBLEMAKER
Voetsek
Skizo (a Texan)
Okay.
Perhaps you could summon them to the fray; they are not in evidence just now..
My views are on the table and have been. I have debated at length many times alone and outnumbered in my viewpoint. Some viewpoints by conservatives are not even conservative viewpoints at all.
One would assume "on the table"means that your views are somewhat maleable.
You are as rigid as anyone here.
That last makes no sense, at least as written.
The Iraq War, for instance, is just about a conservative making a decision and many conservative following along like sheep. It was not a conservative ideal unless one considers that the rationale related some weird revenge for Bush Sr.....even then that's madness talk. Still pretty much the cons followed along and everyone else didn't.
Okay.
When the troops finally come home, if Iraq has a Democratic Government in place, and is fending for itself. will it have been worth it?
My views are no where near a "convenient, grab-bag, stay out of the corner, stay on the fence strategy," Not by a long shot.
Mr. Unpredictable...he's dark, mysterious, and unfathomable...an enigma.
Hmmm.
Here's an idea-
Start a new political party!
You have a ready-made constituency, looking for a home...
Busyman
10-09-2005, 10:01 PM
Most everyone else on here is liberal.
There are more cons to pick out of this liberal pot though:
B.Helto
spinningfreemanny
BigBank Hank (interesting that's the name of a member from rap group Sugarhill Gang)
TROUBLEMAKER
Voetsek
Skizo (a Texan)
Okay.
Perhaps you could summon them to the fray; they are not in evidence just now..
You lost me.
My views are on the table and have been. I have debated at length many times alone and outnumbered in my viewpoint. Some viewpoints by conservatives are not even conservative viewpoints at all.
One would assume "on the table"means that your views are somewhat maleable.
You are as rigid as anyone here.
That last makes no sense, at least as written.
Bad choice of words on my part. My views are out in the open. If they are rigid where do you get "convenient, grab-bag, stay out of the corner, stay on the fence strategy"? I have nevvvver stayed on the fence.
The Iraq War, for instance, is just about a conservative making a decision and many conservative following along like sheep. It was not a conservative ideal unless one considers that the rationale related some weird revenge for Bush Sr.....even then that's madness talk. Still pretty much the cons followed along and everyone else didn't.
Okay.
When the troops finally come home, if Iraq has a Democratic Government in place, and is fending for itself. will it have been worth it?
No. If you believe that then the same crap is bound to be repeated 'cause we felt like it. Furthermore, I'd like to hear cons stop the bullshit "we were there to fight for democracy" crap. Say Bush fucked up and that we simply can't leave. Be humble. You'd have more respect that way. Otherwise you are bullshitting liars.
My views are no where near a "convenient, grab-bag, stay out of the corner, stay on the fence strategy," Not by a long shot.
Mr. Unpredictable...he's dark, mysterious, and unfathomable...an enigma.
Hmmm.
Here's an idea-
Start a new political party!
You have a ready-made constituency, looking for a home...That's the thing. I ain't unpredictable. My views are out there and you are so used to pigeon-holing yourself and others that it's like some new train of thought you can't grasp.
clocker
10-09-2005, 11:20 PM
Okay.
When the troops finally come home, if Iraq has a Democratic Government in place, and is fending for itself. will it have been worth it?
Presumably that day will coincide with the Second Coming.
At which time I will convert and approve of Intelligent Design.
Busyman
10-09-2005, 11:26 PM
Okay.
When the troops finally come home, if Iraq has a Democratic Government in place, and is fending for itself. will it have been worth it?
Presumably that day will coincide with the Second Coming.
At which time I will convert and approve of Intelligent Design.
....even then, it shouldn't be in science class. :dry:
Mr. Unpredictable...
That's the thing. I ain't unpredictable. My views are out there and you are so used to pigeon-holing yourself and others that it's like some new train of thought you can't grasp.
You're not unpredictable?
Oh.
Well then check that "new train of thought" spiel, 'cuz with trains, the cars (ideas?) are supposed to be connected.
Apart from that, the rest was not written exclusively for you, and I didn't mean for you to infer I'd paint you a fence-sitter.
I'll assume that mistake, because I've never known you to mis-perceive anything.
Okay.
When the troops finally come home, if Iraq has a Democratic Government in place, and is fending for itself. will it have been worth it?
Presumably that day will coincide with the Second Coming.
At which time I will convert and approve of Intelligent Design.
I can understand your surety that it won't happen, as it underpins your argument, but if it does happen, what will you have to say then?
Busyman
10-10-2005, 01:39 AM
Presumably that day will coincide with the Second Coming.
At which time I will convert and approve of Intelligent Design.
I can understand your surety that it won't happen, as it underpins your argument, but if it does happen, what will you have to say then?
What does that have to do with science class?
When the Second Coming happens, who would worry about something that they can't understand like an unmeasurable miracle? :blink:
Busyman
10-10-2005, 01:43 AM
That's the thing. I ain't unpredictable. My views are out there and you are so used to pigeon-holing yourself and others that it's like some new train of thought you can't grasp.
You're not unpredictable?
Oh.
Well then check that "new train of thought" spiel, 'cuz with trains, the cars (ideas?) are supposed to be connected.
Apart from that, the rest was not written exclusively for you, and I didn't mean for you to infer I'd paint you a fence-sitter.
I'll assume that mistake, because I've never known you to mis-perceive anything.
Well you said everyone else....
I don't get the trains and cars connection, unless you mean my ideas paint me a Democrat.
clocker
10-10-2005, 03:05 AM
I can understand your surety that it won't happen, as it underpins your argument, but if it does happen, what will you have to say then?
Praise Allah.
Everose
10-10-2005, 03:06 AM
Evey is Democrat with Republican leanings.
I am in neither party.
Actually, Busy, I registered to vote as a Republican at the age of 18. Other than that, I have never felt the need to affiliate with either party, nor do I think of myself as 'in' either party. Since the fences in my area of the country are mostly barbed-wire fences, it is not an easy place to sit. But even though it is awfully hard on my arse sitting up here........I can't see either political party worth jumping off for. :D
MagicNakor
10-10-2005, 03:07 AM
I'm a dirty hippie pinko commie. How's that work out for you? ;)
A "whatever's convenient, grab-bag, stay out of the corner, stay on the fence strategy" is not fun at all. ;) However, I tend to stay out of debate, not by choice, but because by the time I actually read your guys' posts, the thread has generally moved on or been derailed. Revisiting the third post in a six page thread (for instance) would be highly disruptive to the feel of the thread. On others, (such as that Tom Delay thread) I've really nothing to contribute. I don't really know much in detail on your congressmen and senators and so forth.
:shuriken:
Busyman
10-10-2005, 09:58 AM
Evey is Democrat with Republican leanings.
I am in neither party.
Tbh, I figured as much.
Actually, Busy, I registered to vote as a Republican at the age of 18.
I'm not surprised at all.
I can understand your surety that it won't happen, as it underpins your argument, but if it does happen, what will you have to say then?
Praise Allah.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I can understand your surety that it won't happen, as it underpins your argument, but if it does happen, what will you have to say then?
What does that have to do with science class?
When the Second Coming happens, who would worry about something that they can't understand like an unmeasurable miracle? :blink:
Have you assumed responsibility for Clocker's posting, or seized it by force?
I can understand your surety that it won't happen, as it underpins your argument, but if it does happen, what will you have to say then?
What does that have to do with science class?
When the Second Coming happens, who would worry about something that they can't understand like an unmeasurable miracle? :blink:
What does science class have to do with it?
Those responsible for establishing the legal argument against I.D. in schools don't want it anywhere about, science class or no.
To be honest I don't understand American politics either but If had to vote between
j2k4 (Conservative ) Busyman (Republican ) or Everyrose (Democrat) I'd be lost !
Did I get that half right ? :)
Nope.
j2 is conservative and Republican (they go hand in hand plus conservative is not a party).
Evey is Democrat with Republican leanings.
I am in neither party.
I am
for welfare reform
anti-Iraq War
Pro-choice
against gay marriage (for my own selfish reasons)
for small government
for moment of silence in schools (if you don't want to pray, STFU and let others that do....pray)
against ID and creationism is science class
against the Patriot Act
pro-gun control reform but against banning them
against private use eminent domain
extremely tightening our borders
against the Medicare Advantage/Prescription Drug Benefit
and so on..........
I recall that recently, in another thread, you were on about not enough funding for D.C. schools.
Do you actually believe this is needed?
Busyman
10-11-2005, 09:49 AM
What does that have to do with science class?
When the Second Coming happens, who would worry about something that they can't understand like an unmeasurable miracle? :blink:
Have you assumed responsibility for Clocker's posting, or seized it by force?
PM him then. :O
Busyman
10-11-2005, 09:52 AM
What does that have to do with science class?
When the Second Coming happens, who would worry about something that they can't understand like an unmeasurable miracle? :blink:
What does science class have to do with it?
Those responsible for establishing the legal argument against I.D. in schools don't want it anywhere about, science class or no.
Well....your side just sounds stupid trying to put it in science class.
Start yours boats in the water and not on the street.
Busyman
10-11-2005, 09:54 AM
Nope.
j2 is conservative and Republican (they go hand in hand plus conservative is not a party).
Evey is Democrat with Republican leanings.
I am in neither party.
I am
for welfare reform
anti-Iraq War
Pro-choice
against gay marriage (for my own selfish reasons)
for small government
for moment of silence in schools (if you don't want to pray, STFU and let others that do....pray)
against ID and creationism is science class
against the Patriot Act
pro-gun control reform but against banning them
against private use eminent domain
extremely tightening our borders
against the Medicare Advantage/Prescription Drug Benefit
and so on..........
I recall that recently, in another thread, you were on about not enough funding for D.C. schools.
Do you actually believe this is needed?
RIF
It was "we found funding for a baseball stadium but none for D.C. schools".
Have you assumed responsibility for Clocker's posting, or seized it by force?
PM him then. :O
Why?
Am I not entitled to query him in the open?
What does science class have to do with it?
Those responsible for establishing the legal argument against I.D. in schools don't want it anywhere about, science class or no.
Well....your side just sounds stupid trying to put it in science class.
By "my" side, I assume you mean me and the rest of the fanatical fundamentalist Christian extreme right-wingers?
Start yours boats in the water and not on the street.
I don't even know a liberal that dumb, Busyman.
I recall that recently, in another thread, you were on about not enough funding for D.C. schools.
Do you actually believe this is needed?
RIF
It was "we found funding for a baseball stadium but none for D.C. schools".
I agree about the stadium, but I must say it would still be smarter money than more funding for D.C. schools...
orcutt989
10-19-2005, 03:03 AM
Wow! And I thought the topic was going to be something about the unauthourized reproduction of data.
The government is just going too far.
Haha. That is exactly what I was thinking.
Busyman
10-19-2005, 01:51 PM
RIF
It was "we found funding for a baseball stadium but none for D.C. schools".
I agree about the stadium, but I must say it would still be smarter money than more funding for D.C. schools...
...then you missed the point.
The money was found yet before they didn't have it.
Busyman
10-19-2005, 01:52 PM
Well....your side just sounds stupid trying to put it in science class.
By "my" side, I assume you mean me and the rest of the fanatical fundamentalist Christian extreme right-wingers?
Start yours boats in the water and not on the street.
I don't even know a liberal that dumb, Busyman.
....but you know some Republicans that dumb.....
I saw one of their yachts trying to make out of a driveway.
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