Sprocket Redux [Archive] - FileSharing Talk

clocker

10-14-2005, 03:35 PM

She's back.
Mostly.

This version of Sprocket was an exercise in restraint...well, for me anyway.
The goal was to fit a maximized cooling loop into a CM Stacker without
major modifications.

Define "major", please.
Fine.

In the context of this project, "major" means permanently visible holes, cuts, etc.
With the exception of the top blowhole (which Coolermaster really should have changed anyway), I wanted the case to be returnable to stock appearance/functionality.

So far, so good.

If you have never seen a Stacker case in person, trust me, it's big.
Even so I managed to cram it so full of stuff that I had to get creative with some of my component mounting in order to shoehorn everything in.
Life would be so much simpler if Windows didn't require a floppy drive to load RAID drivers....

The RAID array has finally reached it's full size...4x36GB Raptors.
A Seagate 120 GB SATA drive is for storage.
Here is a shot of the front bay of the case with all the drives in place...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/Raptor4.jpg
...and a bench of the drives...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/raid4.jpg
Frankly, I have more storage than I know what to do with, but it is very fast and snappy.

Cooling the drives is a new front bezel.
I made this from black 1/8" Plexi and it mounts 3x120mm fans which blow over the drives and into the case. The bezel also holds two Bulgin switches (reset/power) and overlays the Sunbeam fan controller so only the knobs are visible.
I'd like to replace the standard black knobs for some nice knurled silver ones, but haven't found ones I like yet.
The bezel is mounted to two pieces of angled aluminum (visible in the HDD pic) whose mounting holes are completely invisible should the case return to stock.
This is a shot of the test fit (actually, the ten millionth test fit...)...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/fanplate.jpg
The button head allen screws have all since been painted black to lessen the visual clutter.

I upgraded my northbridge motherboard fan from an 80mm to a 120mm. The DFI (like most nForce4 boards) suffers from terrible placement of the northbridge and can use all the help it can get. Also visible here is the access hole for the CPU socket- heatsinks/waterblocks can be swapped without motherboard removal.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mbfan.jpg
The reservoir has moved to the case roof (the tophat looking thingie) and is the only permanent,visible mod to the case exterior. Should the rez be removed the leftover mounting holes accomodate a 120mm fan or grill- which Coolermaster should have incorporated to begin with.

Sprocket is up and running right now and initial results look good...mostly.
CPU temps are slightly better than the Big Typhoon HSF, but this chip has always run very cool anyway, so I didn't expect much difference.
The GPU temp has dropped a lot...the Swiftech MCW50 and the copper ramsinks are really outperforming the DangerDen NV-68 block I used before.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/newh20.jpg
Sadly, the northbridge temp has remained the same.
How come?
I have replaced my previous passive sink/active mobotray fan with a Vantec Iceberg4 (all copper) and upped the backboard fan to 120mm, so why the crap results?
Turns out, the 120mm fan is dead.
I should have tested it, but I didn't.
The motherboard has to come out to replace it.
Which means just about everything else has to come out first.

*sigh*

Looking on the bright side, this will allow me to make some much needed improvements to my wiring, but it's still a royal pain.
The fully assembled beauty shots will have to wait till the reassembly is done...maybe tonight, but prolly tomorrow.

More to come...

Edit:
Mini-stress test- Prime 95 for one hour...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/stressnew.jpg

ready1

10-14-2005, 04:02 PM

Frankly, I have more storage than I know what to do with

lynx

10-14-2005, 06:52 PM

Life would be so much simpler if Windows didn't require a floppy drive to load RAID drivers....Can you say "slipstream"?

Virtualbody1234

10-14-2005, 07:08 PM

Yes I can.

Slipstream.

clocker

10-14-2005, 07:12 PM

Life would be so much simpler if Windows didn't require a floppy drive to load RAID drivers....Can you say "slipstream"?
So can I.

Can you say "lazy"?

S!X

10-14-2005, 08:03 PM

Enough harddrives eh?

ApacNTS

10-14-2005, 09:54 PM

i'd buy that for a dollar...although shortly there after be arrested for indecent bidding :(

clocker

10-14-2005, 10:06 PM

Enough harddrives eh?
It was an experiment.
Disk performance of two Raptors in RAID0 is significantly better than running them alone.
The addition of the third drive mattered little and the fourth was slightly better, but not amazing.

My recommendation would be two drives.
A pair of my Raptors will be sold to a coworker and I'll have to manage with a measely 200 GB.

Life will be tough.

On a happier note...the motherboard fan suffered from a poor connector (one pin was loose in the housing-easily fixed) and was brought online without disassembly.
Whew.
On a sad note...the fan doesn't seem to make any positive difference at all.
In fact, it may make things worse, a phenomonon I'm at a loss to explain.
My northbridge may just be running hotter due to the four drive RAID array and the new HSF/mobo fan are actually an improvement.
Time will tell.

The decrease in GPU temps has been constant- a back-to-back run of Aquamark (three times) and 3D Mark (three times) maxxed out at 43C, which is where it used to idle, so the improvement is significant. Most heartening is the lower deltaT between GPU core and GPU ambient (wherever that is measured), which is now @3C instead of the previous 7-10C.

Just finishing up fabricating some "beauty panels" out of black plexi to cover up some of the uglier sections of the case and pics will follow.
Ultimately, the Stacker will be powdercoated black (various shades) inside and out and the panels fit that color scheme, but I need to get all the drilling/fitting/cutting done beforehand to minimize risk to the finish.

There is one major piece still missing- the custom fabricated base.
I had to special order the 1/2" plexi for this and won't have it till next week...I hope it works out as well as I plan cause the material cost is rather pricey.

Back in a few hours.

ApacNTS

10-14-2005, 10:21 PM

gonna be good to see the newly revamped sprocket. *waits eagerly*

Duffman

10-14-2005, 11:06 PM

I think we need to put together a sprocket slideshow, of her previous incarnations, to the tune of that Green Day song Time of Your Life of course.

clocker

10-15-2005, 03:03 AM

Well, Sprocket and I got tired of waiting for Richard Avedon to arrive so I took the pictures.
As usual, they are crap, but we'll have to make do.

The front bezel...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/stack4.jpg
From the top we have:
-four black knobs from the Sunbeam fan controller (the only unit worth a tinker's damn, IMO)
-Two Bulgin anti-vandal switches (red is power /on and blue is reset/ HDD activity)
-three 120mm Aerocool "turbine" fans (mediocre fans in fact, but silent and exactly the look I wanted...actually they inspired this whole endevour)
-Plextor 716SA DVD-RW (with an alloy Coolermaster faceplate)

Next, a side view...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/stack1.jpg
Here you see the beauty (i.e., "coverup") panels in place.
Personally I find the motherboard area to be the only visually interesting part of a PC's guts, everything else being boxey and strewn with wires, so I made up some plexi panels and bolted them into the chassis (Coolermaster has literally riddled the Stacker with very nice threaded inserts- if you want to screw something in, chances are CM put an insert right where you need it).
The main reason for the panels is to cover up the unsightly wiring.
The Seasonic S12-600w is an excellent PSU but has the absolute worst rat's nest wiring I've ever encountered. The lines are either too short (ATX) or too long and the connector spacing is weird. Definitely a candidate for major surgery of the harness.
Which I shall do as the chassis gets powdercoated.

Now the waterloop...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/stack2.jpg
Many new components this go-round...
-CPU block is a Swiftech Storm G5.

-Radiator/shroud/fans are a Weapon 342 kit which lays on the casefloor over the good sized vent hole Coolermaster thoughtfully provided. The plexi floor plate to which the radiator is affixed rests on 1/2" rubber weatherseal to raise the face of the rad off the intake opening for better flow (the floor hole is about 1" too narrow along each side of the radiator length but I didn't want to cut it open). This rad is single pass which places the barbs at opposite ends of the unit which cuts down on the amount of tubing used a good bit. Shorter, oddly enough, in this case is better....

-GPU is now covered with a Swiftech MCW50 which seems to work very well.
The odd "press fit" barbs give me the creeps, but no leaks yet.

-Pump is the same Polarflow unit I had before and is mounted directly to the radiator inlet..out of sight, unfortunately.

A slightly different shot...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/stack3.jpg
Depending on how she looks with the interior black, most of the plexi panels will probably disappear (not the main bay mount panel though..I quite like that one), but I'll see when I get there.
I'm hoping to time the powdercoating process (@ one week turnaround) with the arrival of the new DFI Expert motherboard...I may add the nothbridge into the waterloop and that way I can keep downtime to a minimum (teardown on Sprocket is a bitch...).

As per usual she's a work in progress.

S!X

10-15-2005, 04:25 AM

I like the idea of a case on wheels, its sexy.

clocker

10-15-2005, 05:09 AM

I like the idea of a case on wheels, its sexy.
Really?
Sprocket's wheels will be coming off next week when the new base is completed.
It's design shall remain a secret...mainly cause I'm not sure I can pull it off.

Prior to my final concept what I thought would look really cool was replacing the wheels with tank treads.
Big honkers...preferrably running the length of the case.
Dunno why that idea had such appeal, but I toyed with it for a few weeks.

One of Sprocket's glaring deficiencies has always been her off road performance.

S!X

10-15-2005, 05:12 AM

clocker

10-16-2005, 01:16 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/hotwater3.jpg
Running well.
This is Sprocket's best performance at such an elevated speed (nearly 2.7GHz) and is due mostly to a BIOS flash and my (slightly) better understanding of the bewildering RAM settings offered by DFI.

More and more I grow convinced that my bottleneck is the Winchester's memory controller.
A coworker runs a 3700 San Diego and two identical sticks of Patriot RAM (they were mine originally- remember when Sprocket sported 4x512?) on a Gigabyte board. He was able to jump from the stock 2 GHz to 2.6 without changing the RAM timings at all. I conclude that the RAM has way more headroom (especially if the timings are relaxed) than I'm using, so it must be the Winchester's on-die memcontroller that is holding me back.
That's my theory now at any rate.

My next experiment is going to involve the HDDs.
The RAID array performance does not change significantly from two disks to four, at least not enough to justify the cost and added complexity.
So I'm gonna break the array (bye, bye Windows!) and put two drives back on the nVidia controller in RAID 0 and put two on the SI3114 controller as RAID 0 also.
This leaves me with two open ports on the nVidia controller for the 120 Seagate and the Plextor DVD-RW which is a very good thing.
Why?
Because the nForce 4 chipset presents SATA drives to Windows as IDE devices ( a feature Singaboiy would appreciate right about now, I'll bet) so you need no special drivers or install routines ( the infamous F6 floppy dance)- they just show up as regular drives.
During this last install, the Plextor, which is my only optical device, was controlled by the Silicon Image chip and it hated it.
I finally cobbled in an old IDE ROM and installed from that.
After Windows was in place I was able to configure the drive and it now works fine, but the install was a pain ( and I do this a lot!), so I'd prefer to relocate to the painless nVidia controller.
We'll see how that works out.

On a side note...
Just for grins I'm experimenting with two new pieces of software...the Opera browser installed in a RAM drive.
It seems shockingly fast, but I also discovered that Comcast has upped my speed again so I'm not sure ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/dsl2.jpg

Finally, Sprocket achieved a personal best at PCPitstop...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/pcpitstop2800.jpg
She got game.

She got video, too.
Not sure how much is due to the new cooling or adjusting the PCI-E bus (up 1 MHz to 101), but I was able to clock my 6800GT up to 428/1.18 (stock is 350/1GHz) and get this...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/aquamarkbest1.jpg
I'd really, really like to break 80K...

Gripper

10-16-2005, 01:38 PM

May I just say "Wow",didn't quite grasp everything,but it looks brilliant and is inspiring me to tidy up the inside of my case,as it is "A rats nest" as you so elequontly put it:)

clocker

10-16-2005, 01:54 PM

Sprocket thanks you.
The funny thing is, I don't even have a windowed sidepanel so none of this is normally visible.

It's just our little secret.

ApacNTS

10-16-2005, 05:44 PM

it's kinda like popping open the hood of your newly upgraded car, noone expects to see something to clean and pristine, so when they open her up they are like "wow". she's turbocharged :D

ready1

10-17-2005, 12:48 AM

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/90/clockeriseinsteinquestion0fe.jpg

clocker

10-17-2005, 02:15 AM

My cover is blown.

Damn.

lynx

10-17-2005, 08:36 AM

My cover is blown.

Damn.One fan too many? :ph34r:

clocker

10-17-2005, 11:58 AM

Ouch.

brotherdoobie

10-18-2005, 03:38 AM

Very nice, Clocker. I am getting ready to build my next computer. The last one I built is a little old in the tooth. (Athlon XP "2000" cpu. 2003) You have given me some ideas.

Peace bd :)

SingaBoiy

10-18-2005, 08:39 AM

Damn. Nice job :)

@Duffman - Surely you mean "Good Riddance"

clocker

10-18-2005, 02:17 PM

@Duffman - Surely you mean "Good Riddance"
Sprocket says she would prefer "Ride of the Valkeries" for the soundtrack.

Personally I think that's a scosh pretentious so don't shoot the messenger.

clocker

10-19-2005, 03:20 PM

While I've been preparing to build the new base for the Stacker ("preparing"= waiting for Wed., my day off) I've been looking into tweaking my setup's performance and ran into an interesting bit of info about RAID.
Several people were complaining about sub-standard throughput using the nVidia RAID controller and looking for relief.
After a great deal of experimentation, one guy seems to have found a workaround.
Turning off "read caching" under the controller properties makes a significant difference...here's an example:
This is my original setup (read caching enabled)...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/raid4.jpg
And the identical array with the caching disabled...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/newraid1.jpg
Note that the average read went up @20% while CPU utilization was cut by half.

Not sure yet what to make of the extreme spikiness of the second chart, whether that is significant or not I don't know, but the improved speed is very welcome.

It also turns out that I have two generations of Raptor.
The latest (presumably) support "command queuing" while the earlier versions do not.
When I rearrange my drives I'll be sure to pair the drives together and see if that makes much difference.

The base is coming along nicely, it's been glued and is in clamps now.
I may have made a strategic procedural error, time will tell.
I decided to mark/drill/cut the top plate of the base for fitting to the Stacker floor after it was assembled and that might be a problem.
1/2" plexi is a whole different animal than the thinner stock I'm used to, especially when jigsawing- it likes to overheat and remelt behind the blade.
I'm going to try a slower feed and (possibly) some coolant/lubricant (water with a bit of dishsoap) to avoid this condition.

Wish me luck.

clocker

10-21-2005, 06:28 PM

K then, the new arrangement is in place.
Fabrication was not as bad as I'd feared, but I did screw up my dimensions a bit which required one extra mounting plate for the Torin blower.

Here is the base mounted with the blower...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-torinbase.jpg
The blower is significantly quieter than the twin San Ace fans I was using before.
It moves less air, but at higher pressure and no dead spot so the trade off is about even I think.
This is shot from the case interior showing the secondary mounting plate for the blower...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-torinmount.jpg
Sitting on the case floor is the third plate to which the radiator is affixed.
This is my original Black Ice Extreme rad...smaller but less dense than the two heatercores I have so airflow through the fins is less restricted.
Time will tell if this setup is as good as the bigger rig...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-bix1.jpg
And the whole loop in place...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-install2.jpg
After assembly I saw some minor changes that will simplify the tube runs, but I'm going to test her as is and see before I drain/reconfigure the loop.

Early results show this to be almost comparable to the heatercore rig with a lot more free space in the case.
Next I might try running two rads in series passively.

ApacNTS

10-21-2005, 07:07 PM

*drool* that's just inspiring.

Duffman

10-21-2005, 08:26 PM

"It's something unpredictable, but in the end its right"

clocker

10-21-2005, 08:56 PM

... but in the end its right"
Well, Sprocket (Stacker version) is about halfway through the evolution I originally envisioned.
Even I'm not sure what "the end" is going to look like.

The next step is a custom PSU and a custom reservoir.
The PSU is basically just two units (Seasonic 600 and Antec Neopower) in a single enclosure with modular wiring.
The rez will be a 12" x 3" acrylic tube.

On with the show.

muchspl3

10-21-2005, 09:25 PM

whats your super pi #'s

http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=36

clocker

10-21-2005, 09:41 PM

Here is 32M...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/32m2.jpg
And here is 1M....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/superpi298.jpg

muchspl3

10-21-2005, 10:14 PM

nice

clocker

10-21-2005, 10:48 PM

With a new San Diego I should obliterate those scores.

I'm quite intrigued by the s939 Opterons though.
The 144's, 146's and 148's are reputed to be capable of breaking 3GHZ on air.

Duffman

10-22-2005, 02:33 AM

"I hope you've had the time of your life"

clocker

10-22-2005, 03:54 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/time.jpg
Wow, Duff, I had no idea you were a David Hasselhoff fan too.
There aren't many of us around ya know.

Duffman

10-23-2005, 12:02 AM

Wasn't he the dude from bay watch?

clocker

10-23-2005, 01:06 AM

Indeed he was.
Big singing career in Germany too, apparently.

Sprocket is Prime stable for over 12 hours now...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/stable1.jpg
Max temp (reported by SpeedFan) was 40C.

ready1

10-23-2005, 02:44 AM

Wouldn't you want nicer looking power cables.

Duffman

10-23-2005, 03:09 AM

Uh oh, bad thing to say. He's gonna tear sprocket apart now.

ApacNTS

10-23-2005, 03:11 AM

ugh man i just did that pi test for shits and giggles, i wasnt laughing by the end of it :( stopped at 1M, that was plenty of information.

6m:08s

clocker

10-23-2005, 03:13 AM

Wouldn't you want nicer looking power cables.
Yes, I would.
After my new mobo arrives (DFI LanParty Expert) I plan on modifying my Seasonic with modular cabling which should take care of the unsightly mess you've noted.

clocker

10-28-2005, 06:14 AM

A small update...
This time round there have only been small changes (relatively speaking) but a major breakthrough.
As previously mentioned, one pair of Raptors was sold so I'm now down to three hard drives (oh! the shame!).
After rearranging the drives I tried moving my original Weapon heatercore to the front bays- it fit, but took up a lot of space and unnecessarily cramped the spacing of the drives, so I reverted back to floor placement.
My custom base and Torin blower were removed and the stock casefeet (little disks, essentially) were installed.
The 120x38mm San Ace fans used previously were replaced with a set of Silverstone 120x25mm fans (originally supplied with my TJ-06).
The new fans move about half the air with a proportional drop in noise.

All pretty standard mucking about, really.

The big change involved moving the video card to the second PCIe slot which completely unshrouds the northbridge chipset. In theory the second slot is now operating at half the bandwidth of the first slot (8x instead of 16x), but performance in 3DMark03 seems unaffected...I've only made a few quick passes, but the results seem consistent.

Here is a shot of the new arrangement...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/nb1.jpg
Note the booster fan over the northbridge area- I machined some extensions which screw into the mobo standoffs and hark! an 80mm fan (in this case a virtually silent Zalman low-profile unit) bolts right on.
I retained the Vantec Iceberg4 HSF on the chip itself although I now have room to mount a much taller sink should I choose. At some point I'm sure I will, but for now it's fine.
After running for a few hours and Priming (100% CPU usage) for nearly two hours here are the results...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/newlow1.jpg
The northbridge is 10C lower than before.
Now we're getting somewhere.

The truly observant will notice that the Raptors are not in a RAID array here.
I assure you they will be, but while in RAID I cannot access the SMART temp sensors and I wanted to verify the drives were running cool so I installed regularly this time so I could check. I cannot explain the difference in temps between the three drives, they should all be identical in theory, but the warmest (the Seagate 120GB) is only 26C so I'm not going to obsess over it.
Also of note (just to be fair) is the fact that I'm only running at 2.42GHz now.
That's because this speed (11x220) is as high as I can go without retweaking the RAM timings and I want to go back to stock easily for the reinstall of Windows into the RAID array ( I always install at stock speeds...not sure why, just seems prudent and I'm superstitious).
After she's RAIDed I'll repeat these tests at the more normal 2.6GHz but I fully expect the temp improvement to remain.

Completely OT...
I inadvertantly discovered that the beta Opera browser does not support horizontal scrolling with my tilt wheel mouse (MS Intellimouse), but the new Firefox beta does, so after a brief flirtation with Opera I'm back to the Fox.

Just thought I'd mention it...

ApacNTS

10-28-2005, 12:22 PM

wow real nice clocker. case is full, with everthing running and 99% of your computer under 100*F its very nice. btw are you running dual 6800's now?

clocker

10-28-2005, 12:34 PM

No.
It's still a tossup whether I'll end up with twin 6800GT's or a single 7800GTX.

Next up is the migration to 2x1GB RAM.

Virtualbody1234

10-28-2005, 12:38 PM

... btw are you running dual 6800's now?
I think not.

The big change involved moving the video card to the second PCIe slot which completely unshrouds the northbridge chipset. In theory the second slot is now operating at half the bandwidth of the first slot (8x instead of 16x), but performance in 3DMark03 seems unaffected...I've only made a few quick passes, but the results seem consistent.

Nice result, clocker. :)

clocker

10-28-2005, 03:29 PM

Nice result, clocker. :)
Thank you.

This morning before I left for work I attempted to reinstall into the RAID array
(trying a stripe of 32 instead of 16 this time, just to see what happens).

T'was an unmitigated disaster.
Firstly, I have no floppy installed (and no easy provision for doing so) so I used a second PSU to power the FDD and cobbled in the drive cable.
So far, so good.
At the install reboot my Plextor drive would refuse to power up and I'd get the "Error loading operating system" message.
After repeating the process three times I finally patched the FDD into the system PSU and that problem went away.

No clue what was going on.

Then Windows was trying to assign the RAID array D: as the drive letter.
This was confusing as I had unplugged the Seagate storage drive for the install (Windows always wants to default C: to a single drive for some reason, so I disconnect for that reason).
After aborting the install and rechecking in BIOS I tried again.
Same result.

I finally realized that my camera's memory card reader was plugged in and Windows was giving it precedence over the RAID array in assigning drive letters. The memory card wasn't even inserted and MS still favored it over the HDDs.
How stupid is that?

I was finally successful, but what normally takes about 20 minutes ended up eating an hour and a half.
Sheesh.

Tonight I'll finish up my setup and should be able to start benching again.
I'm curious as to whether running RAID will raise the northbridge temps (I hope not, but you can never tell).
If all goes well, on Sunday I might experiment with different heatsinks on the northbridge (now that I've gained some working room) to see how low I can get it. I may even try to bodge on one of my waterblocks and add it to the loop if mounting looks easy enough.

As usual, I'll keep ya'll posted.

lynx

10-28-2005, 04:26 PM

In theory the second slot is now operating at half the bandwidth of the first slot (8x instead of 16x)I thought that only happened if you used both slots. My understanding was that either slot on its own would operate at full speed.

I finally realized that my camera's memory card reader was plugged in and Windows was giving it precedence over the RAID array in assigning drive letters. The memory card wasn't even inserted and MS still favored it over the HDDs.
How stupid is that?Does this mean you can install windows on your memory card? That raises some interesting possibilities.

clocker

10-28-2005, 04:42 PM

I thought that only happened if you used both slots. My understanding was that either slot on its own would operate at full speed.

No.
The primary slot runs at 16x and the secondary slot at 2x when in single card mode.
After rejumpering (in the case of the DFI there are jumpers, most everyone else uses a card that you flip) to enable SLI mode, both slots run at 8x (which is effectively 16x with two cards installed).

I think.

lynx

10-28-2005, 05:08 PM

Virtualbody1234

10-28-2005, 06:23 PM

Does this mean you can install windows on your memory card? That raises some interesting possibilities.
Wow. Now that's something to look into.

clocker

10-28-2005, 06:44 PM

Just checked on Asus, their SLI boards can run either slot at 16x when only one card is installed.

I suspect DFI is the same, but will run the second slot at 2x if two cards are installed but not in SLI mode.

Hello,

If you move all 6 SLi jumpers to pins 2-3 it will run at x8.

The second slot cannot run in X16 mode.
I like Asus's setup better if you can get either slot to 16x but I'm pretty sure that the DFI won't.
I can try rejumpering to see...maybe after I get home tonight.

JunkBarMan

10-28-2005, 07:57 PM

I like Asus's setup better if you can get either slot to 16x but I'm pretty sure that the DFI won't.
I can try rejumpering to see...maybe after I get home tonight.

Please let us know the update on this, I would move my vid card to the 2nd slot, because my northbridge is running way to hot and I have no way to cool it down at this point.

clocker

10-29-2005, 02:21 PM

Please let us know the update on this, I would move my vid card to the 2nd slot, because my northbridge is running way to hot and I have no way to cool it down at this point.
What motherboard do you have?
I can confirm that the DFI definitely does not support 16x on the second PCIe slot.
*aside...*
You all owe me cookies.
Rejumpering this board with the card and waterloop in place was a giant PITA. After all the hassle I could tell within the first scene that the framerate had dropped to practically nil- I couldn't stand to even finish the test, "Massive Overdraw" would have been painful to watch.
Then I had to rejumper to get back to normal.

Oatmeal chocolate chip, please.:pinch:

Running at 8x I can see no real drop in performance (or bench scores) which pretty much confirms that most new games aren't even close to saturating the PCIe bus.
If nothing else, this exercise in agony has firmed up my decision to go with a single 7800 over 6800's in SLI.
The card itself is obviously more expensive, but I'll save the cost of the second waterblock (still waiting on hard info regarding the Stasis Thermal blocks, but I expect a price @ $125-150 apiece) and the loop will remain simple.

Now I'm on a mission to discover where DFI has hidden the sensor which reports "motherboard" temps as it reads way higher than I'd like to see.
Besides, it's weird to see the CPU running 7-10C lower than the motherboard.

lynx

10-29-2005, 04:48 PM

If it is anything like the Abit boards (and probably some others) it is probably measuring the temp of the PWM chip. These things are now typically running at or above the cpu temp when under load.

Your browser is set to reject 3rd party cookies, so I had it myself. :P

clocker

10-29-2005, 09:22 PM

Your browser is set to reject 3rd party cookies, so I had it myself. :P
THAT WAS MY COOKIE!

JunkBarMan

10-30-2005, 02:42 AM

I have the Lanparty NF4 SLi-DR, and the northbridge is covered up by my 7800GTX(long card) and can get quite hot when under load. If I put it in the second slot should it recognise it right away then, or do I have to change the bios or jumpers?

*I don't mean to hijack this thread

clocker

10-30-2005, 03:28 PM

You will have to rejumper the 6 blocks between the PCIe slots to "enable SLI".
This will enable the second slot ( which DFI cleverly labels "PCIe4") to run at 8x.
Insert card and you're done- no other special configuration.

Now you owe me a cookie.
Make sure that greedy bastard Lynx doesn't sweet talk you out of it.

Snee

10-30-2005, 07:03 PM

Wow. Now that's something to look into.

A couple of years ago I saw a computer some bloke had cobbled together and put in a pizza carton. For an OS he used some stripped down linux distro on a flash card. As far as I could tell it worked well.

Given the better capacity of those cards today, putting windows on one of them might be doable. Depends on how big a card you can get, and possibly on how much you can slim down XP, or whatever you want to use.

That Gigabyte ramdrive would prolly keep better in the long run, 'cos flash cards have a tendency of going bad on me.

Nice new sprocket, clocker.

clocker

10-31-2005, 01:46 PM

[QUOTE=Virtualbody1234]

That Gigabyte ramdrive would prolly keep better in the long run, 'cos flash cards have a tendency of going bad on me.

Everyone was sure the iRam was going to be the bee's knees, too bad Gigabyte is only making two thousand of 'em.
Apparently there has been a major redesign and the next gen will be ported into SATA, have 8 (maybe more!) DIMM slots and be bay mounted.
Sounds sweet, but vaporware usually does.

clocker

11-01-2005, 10:32 PM

More new waterparts on the way...a Swiftech MCP655 pump and a DD Maze 4 chipset block.
With the relocation of the vid card I've been dying to see what adding the NF4 chipset to the loop would do.
Should have the pump by Fri. and the block early next week.

Now I really do have to get busy on the new reservoir.

Gripper

11-04-2005, 08:36 PM

Duffman

11-04-2005, 10:08 PM

I believe he's gone the way, of sata, or hid them well, he's always doing that.

Virtualbody1234

11-04-2005, 10:16 PM

Clocker sorry if this is like a silly question but I was looking at Sprockets innards:naughty: and I've can't see any ribbon connecters in there,have you took em out for aesthetic value or am I missing something?
See the thick yellow wire to the left of the fan in the picture:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/nb1.jpg

It's a SATA cable:

http://www.e-shop.gr/images/PER/PER.804327.jpg

clocker

11-04-2005, 11:14 PM

Clocker sorry if this is like a silly question but I was looking at Sprockets innards:naughty: and I've can't see any ribbon connecters in there,have you took em out for aesthetic value or am I missing something?
Sprocket is all SATA, from the five HDDs to the Plextor DVD-RW.
I really dislike IDE cables...too bad I'm going to have to mount the floppy back in, it's too much trouble patching it in to load RAID drivers (and I'm reloading Windows about every three-five days now as I experiment with stripe sizes).

Judging from the horrendous cable-mess I've left exposed I'm surprised (and flattered) that you would think "aesthetic value" was in play yet.
T'will be, but the layout must be finalized first.

Getting close, methinks.

*Got a new Saitek key-lit keyboard coming, too.
Now I can hunt and peck in style.

Duffman

11-05-2005, 03:05 AM

Oooh link to this new keyboard por favor.

Virtualbody1234

11-05-2005, 03:41 AM

http://www.xtremecomputing.co.uk/review.php?id=211&page=1

Gripper

11-05-2005, 08:37 AM

I see now guys,that keyboard looks noice pity its not wireless

lynx

11-05-2005, 09:35 PM

I see now guys,that keyboard looks noice pity its not wirelessThe batteries would go flat rather quickly, don't you think?

Gripper

11-06-2005, 06:31 PM

P'raps it could have those new methanol batteries in it.

Virtualbody1234

11-06-2005, 11:46 PM

P'raps it could have those new methanol batteries in it.
And how much do they cost?

clocker

11-07-2005, 12:23 AM

P'raps it could have those new methanol batteries in it.
And how much do they cost?
Dunno, but you can bet they're more in Canada.

Gripper

11-07-2005, 09:15 AM

Probably to expensive at this point,http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,110120,00.asp
very new tech at the moment

clocker

11-11-2005, 10:43 PM

Big update coming soon.

Just thought I'd let ya'll know.

Virtualbody1234

11-11-2005, 11:46 PM

Big update coming soon.

Just thought I'd let ya'll know.
Cool! Standing by...

clocker

11-12-2005, 01:48 AM

The entrance fee will be cookies.
DO NOT *I repeat* DO NOT! feed Lynx.
He is still digesting the last cookie he scammed me out of.

Virtualbody1234

11-12-2005, 05:43 AM

The entrance fee will be cookies.
DO NOT *I repeat* DO NOT! feed Lynx.
He is still digesting the last cookie he scammed me out of.
No problem. I have plenty of cookies.

lynx

11-12-2005, 11:03 AM

The entrance fee will be cookies.
DO NOT *I repeat* DO NOT! feed Lynx.
He is still digesting the last cookie he scammed me out of.
No problem. I have plenty of cookies.I don't think you've checked the jar recently. :ph34r:

clocker

11-12-2005, 04:13 PM

Yer killin me here.

Gripper

11-14-2005, 04:26 PM

Now the 14th wheres the bloody update "bump"

clocker

11-14-2005, 11:10 PM

I ran into a small performance roadblock- sorry.
I have reconfigured the old girl (again!), relocating the rad, HDDs and adding a chipset cooler and a new pump to the loop.

I dropped a consistent 7-8C on the northbridge temps and the CPU stayed the same (which I expected) but....in a moment of sheer optimisim I decided to retry the DD NV-68 GPU block. It sure was expensive and it really made the tube routing nice but I can't seem to make it work at all.
GPU temps rose from the 30's to nearly 70C (well under the 6800's warning level of 126C!), but it's very scary nonetheless.
It must be me-everyone else loves these things.
Anyway, I have a new block coming (DD acetal Maze4), and I'll break the loop and intall it before I post any pics.

So just hold your water.
So far, this incarnation is looking like the best Sprocket ever (she's certainly never been quieter) so I hope the wait will be worth it.

clocker

11-16-2005, 05:06 PM

OK...small teaser shot.
Here is a bit of Prime action (approximately 2.5 hours at 100% CPU usage)...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/nbridge.jpg
Compared to previous loops, note the much lower northbridge temps.
Ignore the ridiculous vid card temps as this will soon be rectified with a new block (which is shipping today so I should have it by Mon./Tues.)

Also on my plate today is the final HDD rack for the second RAID array and a bit of wire management.
With the motherboard in BTX and the waterloop in place getting to the front panel connector header is a real PITA. I plan on simplifying this by merging all the wires into a single block instead of the four seperate headers that are standard. A small thing really, but I tear this rig apart enough that I'll find it useful.
The HDD rack is simply for looks.
My temporary setup works fine but looks slapdash (which it is, in fact) and the new arrangement will be more in keeping with the general look of the interior.

In a fit of impulse buying I also bought an industrial flow indicator which should arrive early next week also.
With the new reservoir being internally mounted and the new pump being essentially silent, there is no way to tell if the water is actually moving in the loop anymore.
The flow indicator will give a visual indication of waterflow and also has electronics which can be configured to sound a warning if flow drops below a certain point. Not sure the alarm function is too useful but the module is removable should I decide not to use it.
This is it...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/flowmeter.jpg
It didn't even occur to me to ask how big this thing is (best guess is about 3"- 4" square...told you it was an impulse buy!), so how I will integrate it into the front panel is anybody's guess right now.

NEWS FLASH!
After this waterloop is completed I have decided to divest myself of the collection of cooling parts I've hoarded over the past few years.
I am going to be placing them for sale in several fora I belong to, but since FST was my first forum home, I have asked for, and received, permission to list them here first.
I hope to have everything gathered together and photographed by late next week so look for the sale thread then.

Clocker out.

Duffman

11-17-2005, 02:55 AM

oh i wish I had money, come on clocky front me all the stuff I need for a loop, you know im good for it.

clocker

11-17-2005, 04:32 AM

There will be enough parts to complete two loops- pumps, rads, CPU and GPU blocks.
It's all quality stuff too.
Several HSFs also.
Start saving your pennies.

Edit:
I'm afraid, Mr. Duffperson, that I'll have to charge you extra for calling me "clocky".
Have you any idea what that means in Danish?

Duffman

11-17-2005, 11:55 PM

no clocky no I don't.

clocker

11-18-2005, 02:00 PM

Hmmm.
Oddly enough, neither do I.
NM then.

There seems to be a delay of some sort shipping my GPU block.
I really hope it arrives before next Wednesday so I can install it over the Thanksgiving break, but we'll just have to wait and see.
Maybe I'll use the extra time to finally get off my ample ass and build the reservoir I've been planning...it would really simplify the tube runs and bring the entire loop inside the case. I'm also planning on incorporating some sort of option to facilitate draining the loop easily.
As configured now, I have to turn Sprocket upside down and drain through the fill port which is not terribly convenient as Sprocket weighs upwards of 50lbs.(I'm guessing...could be more).
I have also decided to lose the fan controller as I am no longer using the high flow fans and the Aerocool turbines won't even start below 12v (I suspect this is due to the LEDs actually) so it is pointless to be able to throttle them back.
Also tinkering with HDD configuration.
I set up a second RAID0 array on the SI3114 controller with my other pair of Raptors, but it's performance is significantly inferior to the array on the nVidia chip.
I think the best solution would be to run all four Raptors from the nVidia controller (two drives in RAID0 and two simple drives) and run the Plextor off the Silicon Image device.
Naturally, this will require a total reinstall of the OS, but I'm getting pretty adept at that so it's not a big deal.
After all this tinkering with HDD configuration I think that maybe the ideal setup would be one Raptor (preferrably a 74GB) for the OS/programs and one SATA drive (as big as possible) for storage.
My quintet of baby Raptors may join the cooling goodies in my upcoming sale thread.

Clocky out.

Duffman

11-18-2005, 02:53 PM

Does the 10k rpm make a big difference if you put the os on that in speed of loading stuff? if so I am interested in one of those...

clocker

11-18-2005, 04:04 PM

IMO, yes.
There is actually quite a bit of dissent over Raptors and their relative worth.
Many question the value of the (easily documented) speed increase, but they always drag in the cost/benefit ratio (which of course is absurd) to make their point.
I on the other hand, place value on the subjective "feel" of a PC even when not easily quantifiable. Many of our interfaces with computers are subject to very personal/idiosyncratic preferences (think keyboard and mice) and no one dismisses them as "wishful thinking" or "placebo effects".

Whether you notice a difference will also depend on what you are used to and what you do.
If your current setup includes a 5400rpm IDE drive, the Raptor will seem like a gift from God.
If however, you're already running a SATA drive, the difference may be much subtler.

One nice thing about the baby Raptors is their size.
34GB is a good size for a C: drive I think, makes such tasks as defragging and searching faster without the hassle of partitioning a larger drive.
Just store all your data on a separate drive (which is a pretty good security strategy anyway) and you're good to go.

At the very worst a Raptor will not make your PC any slower and your epenis will stiffen a bit, so what's to lose?

Duffman

11-19-2005, 08:58 PM

Sounds good to me I can cut the drive in half and dual boot windows and FC4. PM me about pricing and stuff I get paid soon.

clocker

11-20-2005, 03:29 PM

Just for your edification here is a comparison between two 36GB Raptors in RAID0 and a single Raptor.
Now tell me RAID doesn't make a difference...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/hddcomparo.jpg

Duffman

11-20-2005, 03:42 PM

whats your price for two of them?

clocker

11-20-2005, 04:03 PM

Please wait till I post the For Sale thread.
I'm cruising different classifieds now looking for average prices.
When I have things set I'll post it all and the fun can begin- for everybody.

Duffman

11-20-2005, 11:34 PM

damn you clocky

clocker

11-21-2005, 12:41 AM

damn you clocky
I'm just being careful.
AFAIK, selling on this forum is not allowed.
Since I was granted permission to have a sale thread it would seem prudent to keep it localized and specific to that thread only.

When I do post it up it's only going to be here for the first few days so y'all be getting first crack at the goodies.
Depending on response I'll add it to the other forii that already have established Classifieds later.

clocker

11-24-2005, 12:19 AM

Bump for progress.
All the new parts have arrived (whew!) and the new reservoir, which I made, is finished and undergoing leak testing.
After dinner I'm going to break the loop and begin installing.
With any luck I should be done tonight and pics will follow.

Stay tuned.

Virtualbody1234

11-24-2005, 02:37 AM

Great. Post some pics of the reservoir please. :)

clocker

11-24-2005, 08:49 AM

Your wish is my command.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/newloop1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/newrad3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/beauty.jpg
And here is the new vid card treatment...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/newvid.jpg
The fans are from a HDD cooler and are located over the power section of the card (which is where I suspect the "GPU ambient" sensor reading comes from...)
Some very preliminary temp readings (machine has been idling for @1 hour...)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/lowtemp.jpg
I must say that I'm quite pleased ( several shots of Wild Turkey helped, no doubt).
The new rez eliminated the external Typhoon reservoir and over two feet of tubing.
The loop is as short as it could be I think.

Construction of the reservoir was easier than I thought it would be with the exception of sealing the hose barbs. Initially I had leaks but Plumber's Goop solved that.
Already I have ideas for improving the design but this will do for now.
Sprocket seems happy and that's what really matters.

Sheesh, it's almost 2AM and I'm beat.
Happy Thanksgiving all.