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GepperRankins
10-20-2005, 08:05 PM
http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/5595/High_School_Teacher_Forced_Out_over_Flag



Teacher fired for refusing to display flag in class.

Stephen Kobasa has been a Catholic schoolteacher for 25 years.

For the last six years, he has taught English at Kolbe Cathedral High School in Bridgeport, CT.

He no longer teaches there.

Here’s why.

Kobasa does not believe there should be an American flag in his classroom.

“Everything in the Gospel rejects what flags stand for: boundaries, hatreds, creation of enemies,” Kobasa says. “For a Catholic Christian school that holds up the crucifix as a symbol of God’s love, the flag can only be a contradiction. The Church can only function with its prophetic voice by standing outside the state.”

For the past six years, whenever he found an American flag in his classroom he removed it, he says.

That never caused a problem until this semester, he adds. At a faculty meeting in August, he says, a new policy came down from the board of education at the Bridgeport diocese: The school day would begin with a prayer and a pledge of allegiance.

Kobasa, who is part of the extended community of the Hartford Catholic Worker and Jonah House in Baltimore, knew he would have trouble abiding by that. He hoped to negotiate some compromise.

“I met with the principal, and she said she was aware that I had not been doing the pledge, but that now there would be a problem because it was the policy,” he recalls.

“So what I offered was an arrangement by which any students who wanted to make this oath of fealty could do so with a flag that they could have available. But only for the duration of the pledge itself, and then the flag would once again be removed.”

The principal, Jo-Anne Jakab, went along, he says.

“She agreed to that,” he says. “So I thought that was the end of it.”

It wasn’t.

“Ten days later, I was called down to her office, at which point she announces that this compromise, which she thought would be acceptable, is not,” he recalls. The superintendent of schools, Dr. Margaret Dames, warned that “if I refused to accept the policy, that would be taken as an indication that I no longer wished to work for that school system.”

Later, Kobasa asked to meet with the superintendent in her office.

He wished to explain that his action “was a longstanding, faith-based commitment and not a whim of mine or some excuse to be defiant,” he says.

On September 30th, he met with Dr. Dames in her office. He says he was given “an edict: My obedience was expected.”

Principal Jakab was at the meeting, as well, and, according to Kobasa, she said that “the following Monday there would be a flag in my room and I was expected to leave it there.”

Kobasa said he decided to accept the decision “under protest and under duress,” and he filed a grievance with his association of schoolteachers.

In his classroom, he attached two quotations to the flagpole.

One was from Paul’s Letter to the Galatians: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

The other was from Father Thomas Merton: “We must remember that the Church does not belong to any political power bloc.”

When Kobasa’s teachers’ association refused to back him up, however, he realized that his days as at Kolbe Cathedral High may be numbered.

So Kobasa wrote a letter to the head of the diocese, Bishop William Lori.

“Your Excellency: It is with both sorrow and dismay that I write you concerning the issues raised below, but I am convinced that it is my obligation to pursue every possible means of resolving this dispute in a spirit of Christian charity rather than confrontation,” the letter began.

Kobasa wrote that to permanently display the flag in his classroom “would be to act against my conscience as a believing Roman Catholic Christian. My teaching can never take its legitimacy from any symbol except the Cross of Christ. To elevate any national emblem to that level would be for me to ignore the fundamental call of Jesus to compassion without boundaries.”

Kobasa wrote that the threat of his dismissal “creates the unmistakable impression that national loyalty is being valued over faithful obedience to the Gospel.”

He did not get a response from the bishop.

Knowing that his options were running out, Kobasa decided to take a stand.

At a faculty meeting on October 12, he asked to speak. “This is likely to be my last meeting with this faculty,” Kobasa remembers saying. “I made it clear that I had never imposed my views on anyone, but that I expected my own conscience to be honored, and since it was not I would have to take action to preserve it.”

Kobasa says this was his way “to give the principal some notice that I was not simply going to resign myself to the policy.”

The next morning, October 13, Kobasa did not hesitate.

“I went directly to my classroom and removed the flag and brought it to Mrs. Jakab and said I could not have it in the same room with the crucifix which was the image of my faith,” he says. “She asked me if I understood the consequence of this. And I assured her I did.”

Kobasa was given till the end of the day to leave.

“It was a gift,” he says. “I was able to explain to my students what had happened and why I was making the choice I was, and to tell them what a loss it was for me to not be able to continue with them.”

Some students “were extremely upset,” he says. “I was really stunned by the kinds of testimony I was getting.” A few held signs in his defense, including, “Save Mr. Kobasa,” he recalls. “I don’t know if it was about salvation in the absolute sense, but I felt very good about it.”

Principal Jakab, Superintendent Dames, and Bishop Lori could not be reached for comment. When I called them, I was referred each time to Joseph McAleer, spokesman for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Bridgeport.

McAleer refused to answer questions but referred me to a statement on the website of the diocese.

Here is the entire statement: “It is with regret that we confirm that Mr. Stephen Kobasa is no longer a member of the faculty of Kolbe Cathedral High School in Bridgeport.

It is not our policy to comment on any internal personnel matter. Our Catholic Schools provide a dynamic learning environment in which respect for the opinions of others as well as respect for school property are both key components. The Diocese of Bridgeport has long believed that the American flag is an important fixture in its Catholic School classrooms.”

Kobasa and his wife have two daughters, seventeen and fifteen. “Our eldest had to amend her college application to read ‘former high school teacher’ under father’s occupation,” he says.

Asked what he is planning to do next, Kobasa says: “I don’t know. You got any work? Seriously, I’m just sort of breathing in and breathing out. It’s tough for us all. It’s an anxious time. The practical terms are not going to be easy. But compared to the sacrifices others have made. . . .”



:01:

Santa
10-20-2005, 08:07 PM
burning flags has death penalty

Biggles
10-20-2005, 08:14 PM
I am put on mind of the Roy Harper lyric

The history of religion is the history of the state*
Incestuous exploiters of a catalogue of hate.

His error, it seems, was to assume that organised religion is independent of the state.

*The Spirit Lives (for those that might be interested)

vidcc
10-20-2005, 09:02 PM
I admire his stand for his principles. However from what I can make out from the story it was the schools choice to have the flag and not a state mandate. (I'm sure someone will correct this if wrong). So he made a personal choice and was not forced to leave.

I strongly believe in separation of church and state and if it is the case that any religious private school is compelled to have the flag I would suggest that it would be unconstitutional as would a state school displaying religious symbols. If it were a state school then he would have to accept the flag regardless.

hobbes
10-21-2005, 12:44 AM
I imagine that the teacher was missing the entire point.

To give praise to the country you live in does not threaten ones association or belief in God.

God is number 1 and his teachings are what one follows.

The pledge to the flag is an aknowledgement that your country respects your right or desire to glorify a particular God.


This privilege should not be taken for granted, as many countries will not let you express your beliefs as you desire.

So the bottom line is the God is number 1, but you also can give props to a country that allows you to express your individual belief as you see fit.

Belief in Jesus and Catholocism is a right you can express in America. Appreciation of this right, by acknowledging the flag or repeating the National anthem, in no way changes or compromises this belief, but give props to a tolerant society which allows one to view God in a personal way.

My point is that Jesus is not threatened by a flag.

Both appreciations can exist independently.

You may love God and respect him by the Cross.

You may love your country, and it's acceptance of how you view God, and salute its flag,

but the two are non-competitive. You can apppreciate both, not one or the other.

Helghast004
10-21-2005, 01:12 AM
~message deleted~

I'll just walk away from this one... :shutup:

Busyman
10-21-2005, 12:49 PM
The guy's an idiot.

From his standpoint one can't even be a patriot and religious.

He must have a disorder. He looks at the flag in his classroom and gets all OCD about the flag being religious. :dry:

In the end it worked out and he GTFO.

GepperRankins
10-21-2005, 01:25 PM
i don't know if you read any of that busyman or just made up a story based loosely on the title and gave us your oppinion of that.


his point is that the symbolism of a national flag contradicts christianity, which in my eyes it does. i'm neither patriotic or religious but i fucking hate flags. good on this teacher i say :01:

Biggles
10-21-2005, 06:02 PM
From his standpoint one can't even be a patriot and religious.



I think that is his point in a nutshell. There is a school of thought in most religions that the trappings of this world are at best a distraction to religious contemplation and at worst actually the spawn of Satan.

He would not be the first Christian to take the view that countries per se are an obstacle to God's work. As the school is a religious one it would be reasonable to assume that he had the right to go and discuss this matter with the Management Team as it was a Faith "issue".

However, there is also the view that religion plays second fiddle to the State and therefore he was always on a hiding to nothing - as the case turned out to be.

Busyman
10-21-2005, 06:37 PM
From his standpoint one can't even be a patriot and religious.



I think that is his point in a nutshell. There is a school of thought in most religions that the trappings of this world are at best a distraction to religious contemplation and at worst actually the spawn of Satan.

He would not be the first Christian to take the view that countries per se are an obstacle to God's work. As the school is a religious one it would be reasonable to assume that he had the right to go and discuss this matter with the Management Team as it was a Faith "issue".

However, there is also the view that religion plays second fiddle to the State and therefore he was always on a hiding to nothing - as the case turned out to be.
Thanks Biggles.

The truth is that trappings of the world are a distraction to religion. The problem that this guy doesn't get is "no shit".

There are beautiful women, obligations to the state to fight war or crime (possibly killing), lying to possibly save one's ass, cursing a fella out 'cause he pissed you off, etc.....and this guy focused on a flag.

I suggest he move outta the country.

The guy is going "Aww man, if I pledge allegiance to the flag, God might send me to hell."

If the guy really believes then he'd know that a flag sitting in the classroom means shit when it comes down to it.

What's funny is that this guy probably fornicates, lies to save his ass, and curses people out yet he "takes a stand when it comes to the flag." :dry:

He's an idiot and I'm glad he quit or was fired.

GepperRankins
10-21-2005, 06:49 PM
the flag symbolises seperation, conquest, war, etc. that is not what this guy believes in and he thinks it contradicts his religion. whether or not he fornicates or anything is irrelevent.

hobbes
10-21-2005, 10:54 PM
the flag symbolises seperation, conquest, war, etc. that is not what this guy believes in and he thinks it contradicts his religion. whether or not he fornicates or anything is irrelevent.

The flag also symbolizes freedom.

The freedom to practice his religion or any religion as he sees fit, the freedom to express himself and the right to be heard.

An acknowledgement of this right, which is certainly not the global norm, prevents us from taking it for granted.

As a religious person might say grace before diving into a meal to remind himself that some go to bed hungry, a citizen might give tribute to the rights his country gives him, lest he take them for granted.

This is best exemplified by a rather popular fundamental Christian camp, Kanakuk, that I attended as a child. Every morning was started with morning prayer and the raising of the flag. I left that camp understanding the philosophy of Jesus, but I let them keep the God part.

Although the teacher may have true conviction behind his beliefs, I think he just started focusing on all the wrong sort of details. Not really a good issue to take a your big stand on.

I imagine if his wife wanted him to put a picture of her on his desk, he would file for divorce.

Now, why exactly do you hate flags? How is a country having a flag any different or more divisive than you using an avatar on this forum? It just presents a symbol or an identity.

Now if the flag said, Fuck you with a picture of an extended middle finger, I might see that as a bit unsettling.

Biggles
10-21-2005, 11:45 PM
Hobbes

I think I would agree that it seems an odd hill to pitch ones standard :lookaroun

We Scots are fond of our flags (indeed we have a few lest we get weary of one pattern) Yet I do have a small degree of residual sympathy for him. A flag in a classroom does seem a tad strange. They look best on a flag pole (or wrapped around a drunken football fan comes a close second).

http://www.tartanzone.de/images/tartan_army/Moldova_H_2005/IMG_5922.jpg

Large flags are useful for hiding behind when Scotland play football

JPaul
10-22-2005, 11:43 PM
This is the Vatican Flag, which I believe is also known as the Papal Flag.

http://www.europa.km.ru/italy/images/vatican_flag.gif

As I understand it this flag is also considered to be a flag of state. If memory serves we used to fly the Union Flag when we used it (Vatican Flag) for religious ceremonies, like processions (which I believe is a rule where flags of state are concerned).

(As an interesting aside we used to borrow the Union Flag from the local Masonic Lodge. We also borrowed the RWM's Chair once when the late Archbishop Winning (later Cardinal) was presiding over the Corpus Christi procession. We needed a high backed seat for him. My late Father and I draped a Papal Flag over it, covering the symbol, I'm sure he enjoyed the irony as much as eye)

Anyhoo, I have no problem with flags. If the school rule was that the flag was there, then it should have been there. He may have felt that it was not commensurate with his particular belief system, that would be a matter for him.

Bebi
10-31-2005, 10:35 PM
pfft... who would want to live in a country where if you dont want to have a stupid flag in your classroom then you get sacked... freedom of speech my fking ass AMERICA.

Busyman
10-31-2005, 11:46 PM
pfft... who would want to live in a country where if you dont want to have a stupid flag in your classroom then you get sacked... freedom of speech my fking ass AMERICA.
It's not the teacher's school. If the school wanted green chalkboards but the teacher wanted a blackboard, it ain't up to the teacher to change it.

All in all it worked out. The teacher couldn't deal with the flag and he GTFO.

I worked at Arby's when I was younger. I got my left ear pierced and had a gold stud in it. When I got to work the owner said I couldn't wear an earring. I said why not and he said it's not allowed. He actually showed me in some Arby rule book and it said male's were not allowed to wear earrings....I then quit.

Seemed fair to me (besides the obvious sexism in the rule book). I didn't want to abide by the rules. I GTFO.

Besides all a dat, wtf does this have to do with infringing on free speech?:huh:

sArA
11-05-2005, 06:00 PM
I feel it is more a point of principle than any baring on reality.

JPaul
11-06-2005, 02:02 PM
I am against the baring of RealitY. Nothing against the chap, I just don't swing that way.

Busyman
11-06-2005, 04:42 PM
I am against the baring of RealitY. Nothing against the chap, I just don't swing that way.
But you're okay with baring on RealitY?

JPaul
11-06-2005, 05:15 PM
I am against the baring of RealitY. Nothing against the chap, I just don't swing that way.
But you're okay with baring on RealitY?
Fill yer boots, mate. To each their own.