Guess what? [Archive] - FileSharing Talk

clocker

01-07-2006, 01:24 PM

Initial impressions.

I am completely underwhelmed with the Lian-li v2000.:cry:
The legendary build quality that everybody raves about was apparently out of stock the day my v2000 was assembled.
Yeah, everything works and fits OK, but it does not exhibit the noticably better fit/finish I was lead to expect.

The exterior anodizing is nice and splotch free (which is hard to achieve on a large flat surface like a sidepanel) so I'll give them that.
The "one screw" sidepanel retention system is very clever and works well.
The wheels roll freely and the supplied hardware is of good quality.
But...

With the exception of the sidepanels, all of the rest of the chassis is made of surprisingly thin aluminum and does not have the rock solid stability I experienced with the Stacker. Granted, the TC01 is made of heavy guage steel (sidepanels excepted) and is stupidly overbuilt (unbelievable number of fasteners used, even on insignificant trim pieces), but the upside to that is incredible solidity, and the Lian-li feels (subjectively) flimsy and cheap in comparison.

Aesthetically, the LL is nicer- sleek and rounded where the CM kind of hulks and squats, but looks only go so far. Anyway, my Apple G5 case looks better and is way stronger than the LL to boot.

I was concerned, rightly so as it turns out, that the compartmentalization of the v2k would pose installation problems for the waterloop. Fitting the new triple radiator into the Stacker would have been fiddly but do-able with no case hacking at all.
Not so with the Lian-li...this is going to require a significant re-engineering of the whole interior. In fact, it looks like gutting the entire thing and only using the shell would be the simplest way to go.

Fortunately, I just acquired another of my favorite old school Gateway server cases, one of the very best I've seen so far, in fact.
Removable motherboard tray (ATX even), separate sidepanels (most have the u-shaped clamshell skin) and even modern flipper feet. Of course, it's made from super heavy guage steel and is beige.
And did I mention it was free?
Well it was.

I think I may put the Lian-li on a shelf and ponder it's fate while I build Sprocket into the Gateway.
I can probably sell the Lian-li at a (small) profit to someone who just wants to do a simple air-cooled install or I could turn it into a longer term project -but I was saving the G5 case for my "project time" and don't really need two major builds happening at the same time.
Alternatively, I may be able able to talk the buyer of the Stacker into getting the Lian-li instead.
Decisions, decisions.

At any rate I can see that I'll be the lone voice in "What case should I buy?" threads when I advise against Lian-li...I am completely unimpressed.

clocker

01-13-2006, 01:23 PM

Progress continues.
Although the Lian-li is beginning to grow on me (I've been looking at all kinds of modded examples...some are very nice) I decided to keep Sprocket in the Stacker.
I also decided to lift my ban on major mods to the CM case and have proceeded to strip it completely and go semi-wild.
It's obvious upon disassembly why the Stacker is as solid as it is...the designers must have been paid by the fastener. The roof panel alone has 24 rivets holding it in place and the motherboard/backplane has almost thirty screws holding it together.
Naturally, everything had to come apart for paint although I opted to leave the front bay structure in place as I could reach everything I needed to and I was afraid of alignment problems if I took it apart.

Almost miraculously we had a stretch of warm weather so the painting went well and the satin black looks great (pats self on back).
Sunday, my next day off, I'll be able to fit some of the interior plexi panels (particularly the floor, which is much easier with the case in pieces) and reassemble most of the case. I'm still waiting on the mesh for the roof cutout and the front bay area, but that should arrive today, tomorrow at the latest.

The radiator is nearly complete- the fans are mounted and the sideplates are cut but not yet drilled for mounting.
This time round I'm using a Thermochill PA120.3 rad with three Aerocool 140mm fans...I wanted to fill the front bays as fully as possible and these were the largest fans that were suitable.
They are very quiet and the blue LEDs should look stunning behind the new mesh front...here's a teaser pic...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-140top1.jpg
And another...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-side.jpg
There's no point in posting pics of random case pieces so I'll take more shots as assemby progresses and the case takes shape again.

As you were.

ApacNTS

01-13-2006, 01:38 PM

you have some of the best toys. i always enjoy seeing the progress, do keep us informed :)

peat moss

01-14-2006, 04:06 AM

you have some of the best toys. i always enjoy seeing the progress, do keep us informed :)

I enjoy it aswell its fun . Wish I had the money to experiment . :(

clocker

01-15-2006, 02:58 PM

The chassis is assembled.
Almost.
The roof panel has yet to be finished, that's today's project.

Here are some (typically crappy) pics...
The frame stripped.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-blk3.jpg
And with the motherboard tray installed...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-blk1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-blk2.jpg
The floor panel you see is actually black plexi with the protective sheet still in place, I'll remove this later as the assembly/construction progresses.

It was tricky getting everything to go back together properly.
The motherboard tray and the PSU cage interlock and there are 15 screws and 8 rivets that all have to be aligned during the reinstall. It took a lot of loosening and tweaking to get all 23 holes to line up, but ultimately I managed and the tray/backplane unit unscrews and installs easily.

Next comes the roof panel which will incorporate the biggest external modification.
Wish me luck.

Virtualbody1234

01-15-2006, 04:12 PM

Good luck!

ApacNTS

01-15-2006, 07:10 PM

looking good. cant wait for more! good luck.

clocker

01-15-2006, 07:30 PM

Roof panel done, waiting for the silicon adhesive to cure.
Meanwhile, the radiator is mounted.
Here ya go...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-140back.jpg
That's from the inside, here is the front...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-140.jpg
The gap at the bottom will allow passage for the USB/Firewire/switch wiring/
At least that's the plan.

Roof should be mountable after I watch the Steelers kick Indy's ass.:P

ApacNTS

01-16-2006, 02:21 AM

heh looks like steelers did just that. bears got theirs handed to them as well by the panthers. nice job on the project man. it just gets better every picture.

clocker

01-16-2006, 03:56 AM

Bears lost.
Boo hoo.

Roof panel finished.
Yay!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/roof.jpg
I was afraid that I'd need to use screws to fasten the mesh to the opening but GOOP came through and the mesh panel is secure and flat.
Whew.
The hardest part is now finished.

Still left is polishing of the front aluminum trim and fabbing the front mesh bay cover (using the same material as the roof insert). Not at all sure yet how this will be held in place but something will come to me. I'd like to avoid visible fasteners if possible.

Now it's ice cream time.
Ta.

clocker

01-18-2006, 12:23 PM

Today's project is to turn this pile of plastic...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/rezparts.jpg
...into the new reservoir.
The first version I made has worked just fine, but even as I was making it I could see ways to improve the design.
Specifically, the way the inlet/outlet barbs were mounted into the tube bothered me. Threading into a 1/8" wall tube is not terribly secure and I was forced to resort to copious amounts of GOOP to ensure stability and watertightness.
The new design will address this concern as well as a few others.
I'd like the rez and the pump to be mounted on a common base so they can be removed as a unit. I'm also going to change the drain plug configuration so water can be removed without disturbing the reservoir or moving the case.
All this will require more machining than the original design (and more parts/joints as well), but ultimately I think it'll be worth the effort.

I'm waiting for the new 74GB Raptor to arrive (all the way from Juneau, Alaska!) so I have some time to kill before Sprocket could be running anyway.
This time round the HDDs (the big Raptor and the trusty Seagate 120 SATA) will be watercooled also, so I won't be RAIDing the drives which prevents access to SMART info...I want to see the temps.
There's no room for a floppy drive anyway, so the F6 dance would have been a PITA as well.

It's gonna be a long day...

Edit:
Well, might be a shorter day than I thought.
I've been amassing so much watercooling gear that I completely forgot about a reservoir that I got last November.
A cute little unit, I was originally going to use it in the G5, but it became redundant when the Ehiem 1048 came with it's own dedicated rez, so it's just been sitting in it's box all this time.
I discovered it whilst searching for my stash of high-flow barbs and decided to put it to use.
All she needed was the barb holes retapped to fit the DangerDen fittings, an easy task as the reservoir's body is machined from Delrin, and a mounting bracket fabricated.
The unit is much smaller than what I was going to build so the visual impact will be much different. Actually, it's so small that it's more of a glorified t-line than a reservoir- I hope that filling/bleeding is as easy as my original version...time will tell.

This is great, now I can move on to the wiring-the last major project before reassembly can commence.
There will still be lots of fiddly little stuff to do, but I'm encouraged by the progress.

clocker

01-19-2006, 01:09 PM

Today's update is brought to you by Blind Optimism, cause that's what it took to get me here this morning.
After fiddle-fucking around with the reservoir and the wiring I finally decided it was time to reinstall the roof panel.
This was @9pm last night.

Finished at one this morning.
:frusty:

Although there was no way for me to know ahead of time, I'm now convinced that CoolerMaster assembles this case from the roof down...exactly opposite from my approach.

There are 24 rivets holding the roof to the chassis and lining them up with the inner structure was a nightmare, especially the front bay panels. It would be impossible to explain without a detailed diagram so you'll have to trust me, but had the bottom of the bays been loose I probably could have done this in under an hour.
As it was, I had to machine five tapered pins and gradually lever the holes into alignment. Wooden blocks and clamps held things as I made my way around the front to the sides. All made even more difficult by the top plastic trim piece which couldn't be clamped, of course.
I made it though.

And here I thought cutting the roof insert was the hard part.

Anyways, progress should now be smoother.

Before installing the roof I wanted to put tubing on the radiator barbs because tightening the worm clamps was much simpler with top access...in fact, I'm not sure it could have been done afterwords. This is the only area I don't use zip ties as clamps for this very reason. Should there be a leak, fixing it would be very difficult.

Here's how Sprock looks this morning...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/rez1.jpg
The reservoir is the tiny black box towards the top of the baypanel.
The long dangling tube will feed the harddrive waterblocks but they can't be installed till the Raptor arrives.
Most of the wiring is finished, it's just not tied up yet.

Next big project will be the front bezel area.
Oh boy.

ApacNTS

01-19-2006, 01:28 PM

its taking shape pretty quick now. looks great. cant wait for the final rendition(well final for now, changes will always come)

clocker

01-24-2006, 04:20 PM

Progress report.
About 85% done now, have remounted the rad three times trying to get the fans visually centered in the (as yet unmade) front bezel.
That solved, I moved on to finishing up the wiring and began to mount the waterblocks. The new Raptor finally arrived from Alaska and just this morning I was able to fit the Danger Den Aquabay and route the tubing to/from it.
Here's where she stands as of today...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/partial1.jpg
Straight on side shot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/partial2.jpg
Tried to show the HDD block a little better but it's difficult...everything is black.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/partial3.jpg
From the back, looking into the bay area and the radiator.

Hope to get the loop finished and Sprocket up and running by next Monday.

Bye.

ApacNTS

01-24-2006, 09:03 PM

now if only you could make a video and put it with some good music 2006 would be a fantastic year! looking great. cant wait for the next installment. really clean wiring to man, inside is near perfection.

suprafreak6

01-24-2006, 10:42 PM

lookin reallllll nice keep up the good work clocker!

clocker

01-26-2006, 12:41 PM

K then.
Full waterloop installed.
Same shot, one with flash and one without...)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/FULLLOOP2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/FULLLOOP1.jpg
I must admit that I'm conflicted. Although technically it's fine (ignoring for the moment the question of watercooling the HDDs), the install lacks the elegance I was trying to achieve. The tubing seems to drape all over the place and looks randomly routed.
I am also apprehensive about the utility of the tiny reservoir...it seems little more than a glorified t-line. I actually built another full size tube rez (much like the old one) and refined the construction details, but it ended up not fitting.
Imagine that, a case as large as the Stacker and I ran out of room!

Furthermore, this loop used almost the entire 10' of Tygon I had on hand (that stuff is wonderful tubing but brutally expensive), which is nearly double the length of the old system. Of course, this install has a taller rad and the HDD blocks, but even so, it seems excessive.
I could eliminate nearly 4' of tube by flipping the rad over and placing the barbs at the bottom (which I considered), but I was concerned about trapping air in the upper plenum and having difficulty bleeding it out. I may reconsider this decision...at the very least, try it out and see.
There is also no easy way to drain this loop, a feature I really wanted to incorporate.

My next day off is Sunday and I'm going to move on to the front bezel, an area that has it's own set of construction details to conquer.
I know what I want to achieve, I'm just not sure how to do it and I can't really afford to waste materials experimenting. Plexi doesn't bother me so much- it's cheap and available locally, but the mesh I'll be using was ordered in and cost $50 for two 19"x19" sheets. I've already used 1/4 of that doing the roofpanel and have plans for all of the rest, so screwing up is not an option.

Meanwhile I'll ponder how to alter the waterloop.

This is getting frustrating...I could just accept it the way it stands, fill her up with coolant and call it good. Sprocket would be up and running tonight if I did but I'm sure I'd end up regretting my haste and redoing it later anyway (like I've never done that before...).

*sigh*

sArA

01-26-2006, 03:05 PM

Do it properly...you know you want to.

tesco

01-26-2006, 03:21 PM

Is it just me, or does it look like the video card is flexing under the weight of the water block in the pic without the flash?

clocker

01-26-2006, 03:58 PM

It's just you.

There is a stiffening brace that come stock with the XFX card but I had to remove it when the full coverage DangerDen waterblock was first installed.
I meant to dig it up and reinstall it...guess I'll do that before this is all finalized.
I'm pretty sure the card is not flexing but better safe than sorry, I suppose.

Edit:
You are definitely right, sArA...in fact, shortly after this morning's post I ripped most of the loop out and started afresh.
The rad is now flipped and fits better than ever (no real surprise there...it's been remounted three times already so I had a plethora of mounting holes to choose from), but of course a whole new set of little issues arise from the change. The fans will all have to be reinstalled to bring the wires over to the correct side (no real biggie, just tedious) and the inlet is about 3/4" too low to line up properly with the pump.
Not sure yet how this will be solved- the easy fix is a 90degree fitting, which I've so far managed to avoid but may end up being the lesser of many evils.
It also appears that adding a second radiator (A chrome BIX from a very early waterloop) might actually make things easier. Or neater, at any rate. I have it mounted but ran out of time before work (where I am now) to fully conceptualize how the routing might work. I'll fool around with it tonight.

tesco

01-26-2006, 04:38 PM

Well, it looks like it's flexing a LOT...guess it must just be the angle/light/shadows playing tricks on me. :cry:

clocker

01-26-2006, 05:33 PM

It has to be, Ross.
The flash shot was taken 2 seconds after the other and the card appears straight in that one.

lynx

01-27-2006, 02:26 AM

I used a straight edge on the flash photo, the edge of the graphics card is a fair way from straight. I tried the same on the non-flash photo, and as far as I can tell that's the same (as I would have expected). I would have suggested lens distortion, but everything else (such as the edge of the PSU) seems right.

My opinion though is that the curvature is upwards in the area left of the support provided by the pci-e slot. If so, it is probably simply natural warping of the pcb and nothing to worry about.

clocker

01-27-2006, 12:59 PM

Jeebus, I thought I was the anal compulsive one but it never occured to me to put a straight edge to the bloody pic.

I'll definitely put the edge support back on.

BTW Ross...it's not the weight of the block that warps the card, it's the mounting. The block weighs less than the copper Zalman GPU cooler I used at first.
There is a real balancing act to installing a waterblock....tight enough to resist tube torque and remain seated squarely on the chip(s), yet loose enough not to flex the PCB. It's not too bad on motherboards cause they are thicker- vid cards can be a bear.

clocker

01-27-2006, 04:11 PM

Today's pr0n shots...
The new layout with the second (almost certainly unnecessary) rad in place and slightly rerouted tubing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/blue2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/blue1.jpg
And the obligatory incomprehensible night shot with LEDs...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/blue3.jpg
You'll note that the vid card stiffener is now in place and the motherboard fan has been moved a bit to better cover the PWM area.
Although the tubing has not been substantially redone, for some reason I like it better. Believe me, I tried every combination I could think of, but the bend radius is a very limiting factor and this ended up being the most acceptable solution.
Now to fit the pump and reservoir...

suprafreak6

01-27-2006, 09:53 PM

lookin great man

clocker

01-28-2006, 01:41 PM

Boy, I must apologize for the massive brain fart I laid here yesterday.
Whew!

Allow me to explain.
Yesterday I said...

Although the tubing has not been substantially redone, for some reason I like it better. Believe me, I tried every combination I could think of, but the bend radius is a very limiting factor and this ended up being the most acceptable solution.
Sheesh, that still stinks.
While pondering the pics yesterday at work, I was troubled by the illogicality (is that even a word?) of the loop. The second, smaller rad really made no sense.
If there was going to be another radiator, the only intelligent place for it was right before the graphics card (the hottest component by far in the whole system), not just spliced into the loop willy-nilly for convenience sake.
Yesterday that didn't seem do-able because of bend limitations.

Then I realized my error...
I'm the one who mounted the rad with the barbs at the bottom and there was no reason they couldn't be at the top.
DOH!

This morning it took all of 30 minutes to redo the layout and achieve the ideal loop. Even shaved another 8" or so of tubing out of the system- that's a "good thing".
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/smartloop.jpg
The new,logical layout now goes:
rez>pump>triple rad>HDDs>CPU>northbridge>single rad>GPU>rez.
Much better.

This is not as easy as it looks, kids.
The closer to completion one gets, the more constraints/obstructions there are to deal with.
Even in a case as voluminous as the Stacker I'm going to have to finesse the pump/reservoir placement to fit the technical and aesthetic requirements. I'll figure it out eventually but it's been harder to get to this stage than I imagined.
Humorously, I planned on 10 days...2 weeks at the outside, to pull off this entire transformation.

For anyone planning on going to watercooling, a bit of advice....use Tygon 3603 tubing. Most of the bends necessary to fit the loop would simply not have been possible with cheap, Home Depot vinyl hose. Lesser products tend to easily crimp and flatten thus limiting your design choices drastically.
If you're going to go high flow, large bore, Tygon is the only tube to use IMO.

My next project (WHAT!!?? You're already planning another one? Why not finish this one first, you moron?) will be a small bore/passive system and most of the tube routing issues do not apply there.
Should be a relief.

clocker

01-30-2006, 05:32 AM

What a weird day.
Spent several hours machining a new reservoir then decided not to use it.

Went back to the little guy I'd had mounted before, despite misgivings about it's ability to bleed the loop. Well founded fears as it turns out.

Here's today's beauty shot...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/redloop.jpg
This is after 2 hours of contortions convincing the air bubbles to come to the rez instead of hanging out with their buddies in obscure nooks and crannies.
Not easy and definitely no fun.

I think that subconsciously I was killing time with the rez instead of dealing with the front bezel, which I still haven't fully visualized. Can't decide whether or not I want to commit to having front USB/Firewire ports. Installing them properly will entail a lot of fiddly detail work and I'm just not in the mood.
Then again, I'm sure I'd appreciate them (especially the USB) if I did it.
It's really just a matter of flogging myself into starting.

Thankfully, DFI cleverly put On/Off/Reset buttons right on the motherboard so I can begin loading the OS without the front switchgear installed.
At least we'll get to see how the new, superduper cooling loop works...

clocker

01-31-2006, 03:59 PM

Okay...this whole clusterfuck goes away tomorrow.
Not only do the aesthetics disappoint me but the loop is impossible to bleed.
The sound of air bubbles trapped in the big radiator is very distracting and this system needs to be as silent as possible.

In order to simplify things the HDD blocks go away as does the northbridge waterblock, leaving just the CPU and GPU in the loop.
The Thermochill 120.3 goes back to the casefloor and the pump mounts to the backplane in the stock 120mm fan hole.
I'm going to use the Lian-li HDD rack that I bought for the drives in the (soon to be) empty front bay.
Life will be much simpler.

Naturally, the entire case has to be disassembled and significantly rewired to accomplish this, but what the hey.

This might be a new record for me...a loop that was only in place for 24 hours.

Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

sArA

01-31-2006, 04:09 PM

Okay...this whole clusterfuck goes away tomorrow.
Not only do the aesthetics disappoint me but the loop is impossible to bleed.
The sound of air bubbles trapped in the big radiator is very distracting and this system needs to be as silent as possible.
Naturally, the entire case has to be disassembled and significantly rewired to accomplish this, but what the hey.

This might be a new record for me...a loop that was only in place for 24 hours.

Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Bugger.....:dry:

That said, as always...with curiosity and incredulity I await the next installment of 'Clocker, Sprocket and their amazing comp-modding adventures'. :w00t: :lol: :lol:

j2k4

02-02-2006, 12:32 AM

...I was troubled by the illogicality (is that even a word?) of the loop...

Illogic suffices, sir.

The only area I can help with...sorry. :D

clocker

02-02-2006, 05:38 AM

Thanks, Spock.

j2k4

02-02-2006, 11:03 AM

Thanks, Spock.

:)

clocker

02-02-2006, 12:58 PM

Well, as usual, the best laid plans of mice and yada, yada, yada...

Moving the radiator to the casefloor was a wee bit more difficult than I'd planned on.
Oh, everything fit- I'd carefully measured and knew what had to be trimmed and where exactly the rad had to be placed, the problem was that I'd taken these measurements with everything in place and I couldn't assemble the damn thing.
The rad is mounted to the plexi sub-floor, a fairly close fitting piece.
In order to install this assembly the motherboard/backplane must be removed.
No prob, thunk I.
And it wasn't.

Till I tried to reinstall the motherboard tray and just couldn't do it.
Coolermaster, in their infinite wisdom, doesn't just slide this unit into place...on noes.
It levers and pivots and if you hold your mouth just right, finally lines up with it's fifteen mounting screws. By way of comparison, the entire front suspension (struts, steering, et al) of my Z is attached with 10 bolts.
I guess that CM was concerned that the motherboard might try to escape the case or something.

I tried every possible contortion imaginable (all the while risking my virgin paintjob) trying to get the damn thing installed.
Finally gave up and tried a whole new, less elegant solution.

Put studs into the casefloor panel (required making a whole new piece) and now the radiator is the last part installed.
A royal PITA to do but it worked.

Can't wait to see what the next major roadblock will be.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/floor3.jpg
Now there is another big decision to make...keep the northbridge waterblock or no?
It's inclusion makes the tube routing crankier (refer to earlier pics above) and almost certainly impacts the GPU temps, but nF4 northbridges tend to run hot and the block really did help.
Keeping it does mean running the vid card in PCI-e slot #2 though which causes a theoretical performance hit and also will cause crowding of the new X-Fi soundcard that arrives tomorrow.
Sigh.

On a happier note...I had decided to mount the HDDs in the Lian-li drive cage which was just sitting gathering dust. The brushed alloy front would look great in the Stacker and it has a 120mm fan for cooling, so what could be better?
Well, having the mounting holes line up with the Stacker drive bay would have been nice.
The LL bays have slotted screw mounts, so in a fit of whimsy they decided to use weird spacing...works perfectly with their case but not anyone else's.
Fortunately, I know how to drill and tap aluminum (imagine that!) so tthis issue was easily solved.

And finally...
Two days ago, after finally getting Sprocket up and running (remember that brief moment of triumph?), I had reinstalled Windows on the new 74GB Raptor.
Naturally, I neglected to first break the (old) RAID array, so the BIOS went limp trying to detect it.
Oh hell, think I, I'll just reset CMOS (say bye-bye to my hard won RAM settings), that'll solve the problem.
Which it did.
Windows goes in and all seems right with my world.

I wanted to install SP2 (which till now I've avoided cause it's so naggy) because Creative requires it for the X-Fi install (we're gonna see about that)...and that went well also. Till it ate my cursor.
Imagine that...Microsoft's Service Pack kills Microsoft's wireless mouse.
Quel surprise.
A PS2 mouse and a patch and all is good.
Ahhhh, almost.

When I reset CMOS it defaulted back to 1/1/2005 as the system date.
Normally I would have caught it but as you might imagine, I've been a bit frazzled.
So I changed it after I was in Windows.
Next time I booted the machine I was locked out- Windows thought I had exceeded the 30 day period to validate the OS and would I care to do so now?
NO!...I would NOT, thanking you very much.
I haven't been able to validate over the Internet for over a year...Sprocket has undergone so many changes that each validation requires the excruciating telephone procedure.
You know the one...you repeat your PID to a machine which inevitably responds that it can't help you and the entire process is repeated to a bored human being. Who gives you a new code to enter.
And there is a half hour of your life shot to hell.

So I get to do that after I conquer my hardware issues.

I'll be sure to post pics of me with an icepick in my eye...the best way of distracting myself from the agony of dealing with Microsoft.
We'll all share a good laugh.

Virtualbody1234

02-02-2006, 01:32 PM

Argh! Just use the Corp Edition and be done with it already. I know you want to stick with the idea of using your "official" version but why make it hard on yourself? If ever they bother you saying that you don't have a real Windows then just show them the real one.

I noticed a clue...

By way of comparison, the entire front suspension (struts, steering, et al) of my Z is attached with 10 bolts.
;)

clocker

02-02-2006, 03:40 PM

A clue to what?

j2k4

02-02-2006, 10:00 PM

In the process of rummaging through the Sprocket archive, I've noticed something missing...something once removed, and now needing replacement, apparently.

A tool of sorts; an item through which might pass a vapor or specially-treated (yet emminently breathable) air, in a short right-angled configuration, with a small reservior attached to the short leg, and, on the opposing end, an orifice specially suited to oral affixation? :huh:

Might help...:)

clocker

02-02-2006, 10:50 PM

Yes indeed.
That would help.

clocker

02-03-2006, 02:31 PM

Today's update is brought to you by j2 (thanks, Kev!).

Things are definitely looking up this morning.
Motherboard and wiring installed (well mostly....wiring still needs work but it's getting there) and waterloop begun.
Decided to replace the DangerDen Maze GPU block with the D-tec purchased last month. Just to see, really.
Quite intrigued by the new Stasis Thermal Neptune full coverage block, waiting to see reviews and user comments.
Anyways, here we are this AM...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/halfloop.jpg
Next I tried mocking in the reservoir and was pleased to see that my mounting bracket design would be perfect (albeit dimensionally incorrect...a new version will need to be made).
The reservoir itself will require disassembly/drilling and tapping to relocate the inlet barb to the unit's back. This layout mates the rez's inlet directly to the GPU block's outlet, eliminating yet more tubing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/proofofC.jpg
The last piece of the puzzle will be the pump, soon to occupy the hole for the 120mm exhaust fan in the backplane.
A moment of silence for the trusty Aerocool fan, please.
It's off the project (for the nonce, at least).
The pump's outlet will abut the radiator's inlet (again, eliminating tubing), leaving just a short piece from the reservoir to the pump to complete the circuit.
Much better, I'm hoping.

clocker

02-04-2006, 12:26 PM

No real fun news this morning.
The X-Fi soundcard arrived and I've picked up a set of Sennheiser headphones (H350's) to plug into it.
In theory, my 3D Mark and Aquamark scores should improve along with the sound quality...we'll see.
I've figured out an approach for mounting the pump, maybe start on it tonight.
Would love to finish the loop by tomorrow and see how it performs.

clocker

02-04-2006, 10:48 PM

Edit today's previous claim of "no fun news".
Sprocket's movin on up to an Opteron 148.

I saw screenies of it running Prime at 2.9GHZ with air cooling.

This might be interesting.

j2k4

02-04-2006, 11:03 PM

Edit today's previous claim of "no fun news".
Sprocket's movin on up to an Opteron 148.

I saw screenies of it running Prime at 2.9GHZ with air cooling.

This might be interesting.

YOU'RE MAD....MAD, I TELL YOU!!!!

SLOW DOWN OR YOU'LL KILL US ALL!!!!!!
:)

ApacNTS

02-05-2006, 01:25 AM

wait what? wow. screenshots..benchmarks..pictures oh my :)

clocker

02-05-2006, 11:59 AM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/Opteron148-2a.jpg
My results may vary (the usual disclaimer) but this is the shot that sold me.
Well, that plus the fact that I had a buyer for the Winnie already lined up...basically it's costing me $50 to see if the Winchester's memory controller has been my bottleneck.

Gotta love Classifieds and PayPal.
In the past few days I've sold two waterblocks, the chrome BIX and an Ehiem pump without even trying. Already have the money and the parts are in transit. Total time invested...maybe an hour.
We live in interesting times.

clocker

02-06-2006, 12:43 AM

Loop installed.
The reservoir bracket is final...the pump, not so much.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/blk2.jpg (http://photobucket.com) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/blk1.jpg (http://photobucket.com)
The pump will actually sit suspended by the tubing...it assumes the best alignment this way but looks haphazard and unfinished.
This might be one of those real black/white decisions- go fror aesthetics alone or let function trump form.
Either way, the tubing length has dropped from well over 6" to under 2" and that's a good thing.

Not going to fill and bleed till the Opteron shows up, probably Wednesday.

Now- onward to the front bezel....finally.

After Seattle creams the Steelers, of course.

ApacNTS

02-06-2006, 04:01 AM

looking good as always. sorry, but the bus for the losers has already left. maybe next year they can win :P. glad the steelers won. seahawks put up a hell of a fight tho, had me worried early in the half.

clocker

02-06-2006, 04:55 AM

Meh.

lynx

02-06-2006, 12:48 PM

Time to move this to Sports Club? :schnauz:

clocker

02-06-2006, 01:16 PM

Oh noes!
Please...not that!

Back on topic....
Had to remove the Winnie this morning, she's moving to her new home (Bye-bye old girl, you've been great!) and I realized that had the loop been filled with coolant I'd have been in a world of hurt...no way to drain the loop without getting water all over the place.

Gotta rethink this arrangement.
Either a t-line/drain needs to be installed (no immediately apparent place to do this) OR the pump must be relocated with enough hose slack to pull it from the case and drain.

Damn.
Oh well, I've got till Wednesday to figure this out...

Barbarossa

02-06-2006, 01:17 PM

This should have been moved to Funny Stuff ages ago... :P

clocker

02-06-2006, 01:19 PM

Hardware can be very amusing...

clocker

02-07-2006, 01:34 AM

Hmmm...possible change in plans, waterblock-wise.
I was just notified that I've been moved up the waiting list for the new StasisThermal Neptune GPU block.
I was expecting to be in the second production run which would have shipped in Feb. but someone dropped out of the first batch and it's going to me.
Should ship by Friday.
Not sure what to do with it...I can wait an extra week and install now or just continue with the current loop and install whenever.

Decisions, decisions.

j2k4

02-07-2006, 02:03 AM

Decisions, decisions.

I'd go with the first one; it's capitalized. :)

clocker

02-07-2006, 12:12 PM

Thanks Kev, that was very helpful.

It's actually gonna depend on how difficult it is to remove the ramsinks on the 6800GT.
If they pop right off, the new, full-coverage Neptune will go on.
If not, whenever my tax return arrives the block will go on a new 7800GT.

Microsoft is gonna love validating this latest incarnation of Sprocket...new HDD, new CPU, new sound card ( not sure they even care about that)...I'm sure that whatever formula they use to determine a machine's identity is going to be screaming foul.

clocker

02-08-2006, 02:39 PM

It's actually gonna depend on how difficult it is to remove the ramsinks on the 6800GT.
If they pop right off, the new, full-coverage Neptune will go on.
If not, whenever my tax return arrives the block will go on a new 7800GT.

What a difference a day makes.....
It no longer matters how difficult the ramsink removal might be...I sold the card and the sinks/Maze waterblock as a bundle yesterday.
Sadly (although not surprisingly) I did not net enough for a 7800GT, so either I get busy and sell off more goodies or wait till my tax return arrives...either way, I'm temporarily without a vid card.

I'm putting on my rose-colored glasses and calling this delay a "good thing" as the pressure to get Sprocket up and running is gone and I can detour to a few minor upgrades I've been postponing.
First in line is the CPU block.

The Storm waterblock is a wonderful performer but the universal mounting plate is ugly and obviously generic. There is a plethora of unused holes and it is unnecessarily large and awkwardly shaped.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/Mount.jpg
I'm going to remake the mount to only include the two holes necessary for a939 mount. Also, the ugly (and long) Swiftech plastic barbs will be replaced with the DangerDen chrome "hi-flo" barbs pictured. The barb replacement required (I've already done it) reaming the stock holes and retapping to 9/16-18 for the DD parts. This is pretty simple as the top plate (see pic below) is Delrin and easily machinable.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/Storm1.jpg
If you've never seen the inside of a modern waterblock the complexity might surprise you...this one is pretty sophisticated and undoubtably expensive to produce- which is why it's been discontinued in favor of the Apogee, a much simpler design.
The barbs and mounting plate fit onto the topplate of the block (upper left).
The center plate (top right) directs incoming water through an array of hollow pins which fit into the holes in the copper bottom piece.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/Array2.jpg
These pins are much smaller than they appear and could only be made economically by casting and machining, hence the use of Delrin instead of copper. You can see the path of the CNC toolbit around the pin area- almost certainly done in one pass and not possible with a copper piece which would require several depth cuts to finish.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/Pinarray.jpg
What you can't see (cause I couldn't photograph it properly) is the bottom of the holes in the copper baseplate. Swiftech must have used a special hollowpoint drillbit as there is a small pyramid at the hole's base. This combination results in considerable turbulance and superior heat absorbsion by the coolant, the price being a pretty complex manufacturing process.
For the end user, care must be taken that the coolant is clean and without debris as the pin holes are just that...the size of a pin, and easily clogged.
Mine was relatively good, just a few of the holes were clogged and I suspect that was due to not flushing after I removed the block...the antifreeze just coagulated as it dried out.
No matter, soaking in water and some compressed air took care of the issue.

So today I make the new mounting plate.
Haven't decided on the material yet, either aluminum or Plexi would do...I'll see what I have on hand and go from there.

I also plan (keep in mind how incredibly flexible my "plans" seem to be...:dry: ) to remount the rad/pump/reservoir more logically.
We'll see how that turns out.

clocker

02-11-2006, 01:16 AM

Opteron has arrived.
At least FedEx tracking says so.
Can't wait to get home and drool on it for a while.

The StasisThermal Neptune block ships out tomorrow.

I did get the new pump mount figured out...t'was easier than expected (for a change).
Now if the reservoir were in place and I had a vid card, Sprocket would be good to go.

Yeah, like that's evergonna happen.

Plan on snapping some pics (you know- my signature blurry, horribly compressed approximations of reality) of the air-cooling stuff for sale and post it early this AM.
Response to the watercooling thread was better than expected so I'm gonna give ya'll first crack at this stuff...it'll be exclusive here at FST for the first 24 hrs.
Don't tarry.

Virtualbody1234

02-11-2006, 01:35 AM

Make sure to dry off the drool before powering up the Opteron.

clocker

02-11-2006, 01:47 AM

Good advice.

clocker

02-13-2006, 06:14 AM

Here's Sprocket's new brain*...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/opty1.jpg
Other than this pic I got nothing of substance done today.
Dealing with PMs from the classifieds has been a full time duty but everything seems to be working out well.
Packing stuff up was a total PITA...glad that's done.

Now all I await is the Neptune waterblock and the new vid card.

*Drool removed in deference to VB...

S!X

02-13-2006, 06:40 AM

Hmm, are those better then the dual cores?

clocker

02-13-2006, 11:50 AM

They overclock higher.
Other than that, I don't know.

clocker

02-14-2006, 02:43 PM

Progress report.
Doesn't look like much but these shots actually show that most of the hard work is done.
The pump and reservoir are mounted and plumbed...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/velcro2.jpg
...both use Velcro (my new favorite tool) as the attachment method.
The pump, which almost sits in place just with tube pressure, is attached to the bottom of the HDD cage and feeds straight down into the radiator.
The reservoir is attached to the bay structure and is the highest point of the loop, good for trapping/bleeding air.
Due to the small size of the rez (it's more of a glorified t-line than anything else...) I'll temporarily put the pump on a rheostat to slow down waterflow for the bleeding/filling process. My first run with the reservoir had the water going through it so quickly that air bubbles just recirculated right through it. Once bled, pump speed will go back to normal.
I have also made provision to mount another 120mm fan in front of the pump to keep it cool, which brings the number of case fans to six (not counting the 120mm in the Antec PSU)- 3x140mm on the radiator, 120mm in the HDD rack, 120mm backplane exhaust and 120mm pump cooling. Although this might seem excessive for a PC which is not primarily aircooled (alright, I admit it IS excessive), the Aerocool fans are dead silent and case airflow is important even to a watercooled system.
With the newly vented roof panel (remember that?), two meshed sidepanels and the fully meshed front bezel, airflow should be adequate, if not spectacular.
I have very high hopes...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/velcro1.jpg
It's already apparent how much neater this install will be compared to the (theoretically technically superior) previous attempt.
Yes, there is more tubing involved but the routing is more logical and less contorted.
Here is how the loop gets completed...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/velcro1mod.jpg
It is possible to use but one 90 degree fitting on the the Neptune block (the barbs are too close together to spin two of them on) and I'm undecided which side to do...I'll see when it arrives and is mocked into position.
It'll probably go on the inlet from the CPU block as that will be the tightest radius in the loop.
Then again, I may escape having to use one at all.

Soon, I promise, soon...all this will be over.

j2k4

02-14-2006, 09:06 PM

Beautifully executed, sir.

Neat in the literal sense; takes me back to the days of searching out new under-hood plumbing methods for the shows.

Very appealing work. :)

clocker

02-14-2006, 10:04 PM

Thanks guy.
I enjoy the challenge of arranging the chaos inherent when mixing electronics and water but draw the line at full on custom fabrication (if possible).
Think street rod (in the older, pre-Coddington days) v. full-on show car.

An analogy I'm certain you get immediately, Kev.

j2k4

02-14-2006, 10:13 PM

clocker

02-14-2006, 10:53 PM

Exactly.

As if she'd let me.

S!X

02-14-2006, 11:08 PM

Noice update, what kind of PSU are you using?

clocker

02-14-2006, 11:10 PM

Currently installed is an Antec NeoPower 480w.

S!X

02-14-2006, 11:19 PM

I see, Because you said "Currently" im assuming you have alot mor ein your arsenal :ph34r:

clocker

02-14-2006, 11:49 PM

I do have the Seasonic s12-600w laying about.
Considering putting it up for sale.

S!X

02-14-2006, 11:59 PM

I do have the Seasonic s12-600w laying about.
Considering putting it up for sale.

NICE :w00t: That things just over 200$ canadian :( , I probbly would of bought it if it was cheaper... even tho i dont need that much juice... yet atleast.

clocker

02-16-2006, 10:18 AM

Finally.
After last weekend's Classifieds frenzy (I had the watercooled stuff listed in three other forums and recieved 82 PMs over the weekend) and since I have no vid card to proceed with, I finally forced myself to work on the front bezel.
The whole integrated mesh look was the primary reason for beginning this last mod cycle and I've been avoiding finishing it up.
Possibly because I was afraid it wouldn't turn out as I hoped, possibly because I knew that making the front panel was going to be trying.

Well, it did end up looking like I thought it would and indeed, the panel was a PITA to make.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mesh.jpg
Before someone mentions it....yes, the Stacker does come with meshed bay covers and yes, I could have used them and gotten nearly the same overall effect.
But, the look I was going for was smooth and integrated and the front bezel is now a match for the roof vent, which the stock covers were not.

Because I wanted no visible fasteners and clean, finished edges, the mesh panel has had all four sides flanged (it's basically a box without the top)...not really a big deal if one has a sheetmetal brake at hand.
Which surprisingly, I do.
Not big enough to accept this piece, naturally (it's a cheap Harbor Freight POS that I've had- for a project long forgotten- in the garage for maybe 15 years) so I had to Rube Goldberg my way through it.

The initial bends went quite quickly but the piece was not square and required endless tapping/fiddlefucking to make it so.
At this point friction is holding it in place, and absent a compelling reason to change it, I'll prolly just leave it be.
Pressing on the buttons doesn't budge it so I'm calling it good.

Vid card arrives Friday and I'm praying that the GPU waterblock will arrive by then also.
Sprocket may be ready to run by Sunday.

j2k4

02-16-2006, 08:56 PM

Question:

Does "fiddlefucking" actually require a violin, or will any stringed-instrument do in a pinch? :huh:

Cool, BTW; as intended, I'm sure.

clocker

02-16-2006, 10:20 PM

A kazoo will suffice should the circumstances sink beyond reason.

j2k4

02-16-2006, 11:48 PM

A kazoo will suffice should the circumstances sink beyond reason.

Yes.

Well done. :D

clocker

02-18-2006, 02:03 PM

Right.
The new vid card has arrived and apparently will be setting the record for "Longest Time of Possession Before Voiding the Warranty".
The Stasis Thermal waterblock has not shown up, USPS tracking is useless( nothing new there...) and Matt (owner of ST) has not responded to any emails.
If the block doesn't come today I'm dead in the water till at least Tuesday (Mon. being a Federal holiday...at least for bankers and the Post Office).

I'm getting so desperate I'm actually considering using the 7800 as it came from the box, but that would entail having to redo the loop when the Neptune finally materializes...assuming that it ever does.

Sigh.

j2k4

02-18-2006, 05:16 PM

Bummer.

I'm having a bit more success with my projects, but with a nice new selection of improbables on the side.

Nothing proceeds in a straightforward fashion these days...:huh:

clocker

02-20-2006, 12:35 PM

Greetings from frigid Denver.
Had a mass of bluecold Canadian air (thanks a whole bunch, eh?) squatting on us since last week, broke several longstanding records.
Saturday morning (-19F by my thermometer, officially -13F) my poor car just wasn't up to it and I damaged the starter- boneheadedly persisting when I should have quit.
She almost started...
Fortunately, it turned out to be the fusible link and not the solenoid that died. I carry a spare.
Still and all, trying to do anything involving manual dexterity in those temps is unpleasant to say the least.

This is more than peripherally germane to Sprocket's progress in that after Saturday's exertions (I had to work all day too) I was bushed and not eager to do much.
Still no vid block, so filling the loop wasn't feasable.
I considered installing the vid card as is and putting the Zalman 7700 on the CPU...just to get running...but was too lazy to do it.

Sometimes sloth is the best approach.
Got confirmation from Stasis that my block should arrive Tuesday...finally, a response (and good news! although I'm not getting too excited till I actually have it).

Soooo...what to do till then?
Well, I've been almost subliminally nagged by the way I installed the pump. Although I went ahead and did it anyway, it bothered me that the pump mounted to the harddrive cage- mostly because removing the cage meant fooling with the pump.
Also, the bare aluminum of the Lian-li cage was too visible behind the mesh front panel.
So I did this...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/hanger.jpg
Drivecage is gone, replaced by the mounts I was using before and the pump is separately suspended on aluminum rods.
Didn't even have to drill any holes in the case.
Much better, methinks.

I also went ahead and made a trim piece I've been thinking about and decided to revisit my plans re: the sidepanels.
More on that later ( or not....I'm becoming a bit commitment-phobic. If I get around to actually doing what I'm thinking about we can discuss this again...)

fkdup74

02-21-2006, 01:05 AM

Well, I've been almost subliminally nagged by the way I installed the pump. Although I went ahead and did it anyway, it bothered me that the pump mounted to the harddrive cage- mostly because removing the cage meant fooling with the pump.
Also, the bare aluminum of the Lian-li cage was too visible behind the mesh front panel....
...Drivecage is gone, replaced by the mounts I was using before and the pump is separately suspended on aluminum rods.
Didn't even have to drill any holes in the case.
Much better, methinks.

you know.....I thought of bringing that to attention, but..... :P

nice rework on the front screen,
looks about a thousand times better then the CM stock IMO

now I'm just gonna sit here and wait for the punnage regarding your roddage.....

clocker

02-21-2006, 01:15 PM

now I'm just gonna sit here and wait for the punnage regarding your roddage.....
Today I'm in the same boat you sailed last week...eagerly awaiting parts in the mail.
It's no fun, is it?

I finally got around to adding a dedicated drain line to the loop.
I've always meant to do this, I've seen it done before and admired the foresight employed...it's one thing to safely add water but quite another to remove it.
In a perfect world, a drain at the bottom of the Thermochill rad would be ideal and viola!, guess what?...there is such a thing.
However, instead of being sized for a hose barb it's the size of a #6 screw- way too small and basically useless.
This left me to come up with a less desirable option and I did the only thing that made sense...added a t-fitting to the rad-out/CPU-in hose.
I'll point it out in a future pic...it doesn't warrant a shot of it's own.

Since I'll not be in RAID this time round I'll again be able to access HDD SMART info...specifically, temps.
To start, there will be no fannage for the HDDs...if necessary they can be added later.

Damn, getting close....

clocker

02-23-2006, 04:30 PM

SHE RUNS!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/mini-totalloop.jpg
Whew.

Naturally, she isn't exactly finished, but Sprocket fires on all cylinders and seems to be doing just hunky-dory.
The most pressing issue to address is the reservoir...this one is just too damn small and with the high flow rate loop, air just whizzes right through the air trap and back through to the pump.
It's very noisy.

Temps are as expected...i.e. low.

Too busy to go into more detail, just thought ya'll like to know.

S!X

02-23-2006, 11:28 PM

Fuck, thats 1337 :w00t: Those turbine fans are gangsta :cool: Are you still using that XFX 6800GT?

clocker

02-24-2006, 12:26 AM

No...the XFX is now in Hawaii along with the late, lamented (well, a little) Winnie.

S!X

02-24-2006, 12:59 AM

No...the XFX is now in Hawaii along with the late, lamented (well, a little) Winnie.

Hmm... What do you got?

clocker

02-24-2006, 01:15 AM

The new card is a Leadtech 7800 GT.

It's werry, werry nice, Captain.

S!X

02-24-2006, 05:43 AM

The new card is a Leadtech 7800 GT.

It's werry, werry nice, Captain.

Nice :O

clocker

02-24-2006, 03:11 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/oc2mod.jpg
Thanks, VB.

FYI....
I was actually able to boot into Windows at 3.2GHz, but crashed out immediately.
This shot was stable enough to run Aquamark 03 where, with the vid card clocked also, I scored 101,350.
The RAM was running at PC4100 speeds here.

Amazingly, I did this all at stock voltages.
I'm sure the PC is not at all stable, but I'll bet with some careful ( and time-consuming) tweakage, I could run this daily without problems.
The cooling is certainly up to the task...CPU has yet to break 29C and the GPU seems very constant at 31C.

Patriot has come out with some PC3500 (2,3,2,5 @1T) 1GB sticks and I have two on the way. When they're installed I'm going to find the highest stable clock that they'll run at CAS2 and prolly stick there.

Right now the most pressing issue is the reservoir...this morning I ordered the new Swiftech mini-rez in hopes of controlling the air entrapment that plagues the loop. My big, custom built reservoirs never had this problem, but space has become a real issue and I hope this will solve it.

More to come as time permits...we're finally at the fun part.

Thanks for sticking with me.

Virtualbody1234

02-24-2006, 03:51 PM

Nice!

You might want to change that post to remove the OEM number.

S!X

02-24-2006, 07:45 PM

Jesus christ that pwns my comp in aquamark :O I only got like 53K. Whats the cpu run at stock?

clocker

02-24-2006, 09:10 PM

The CPU runs stock at 2.2GHz.
The GPU was clocked up to 540/1.2GHz (stock is 450/1.05).

suprafreak6

02-24-2006, 09:59 PM

dang!

S!X

02-24-2006, 11:08 PM

The CPU runs stock at 2.2GHz.
The GPU was clocked up to 540/1.2GHz (stock is 450/1.05).

Shit son thats sick :cool2:

clocker

02-25-2006, 12:52 AM

Those speeds are not-repeat, not what I would consider running often.
More like suicide shots, just to see what would happen.

Frankly, I was surprised I got there so easily.
Scary really.

S!X

02-25-2006, 01:06 AM

Frankly, I was surprised I got there so easily.
Scary really.

Oh the joys of water cooling. :lookaroun

clocker

02-25-2006, 02:23 PM

Oh the joys of water cooling. :lookaroun
There are also significant drawbacks however.
Leaks being the primary (and most destructive), obviously.

My vid card block has a potential leakage issue which the maker and I are addressing now...unfortunately, the replacement block won't arrive for a week or so.
Rather than risk the 7800 I have drained the loop and will just wait till it comes.

In the (painfully short) time that Sprocket was up and running I noticed that the northbridge temps were once again the highest of all and I've decided to use this hiatus to reconfigure the loop and add the Maze chipset block back in. If I feel especially ambitious I may do some simple flow testing and see how 90degree fittings impact performance....they may make installation simpler...not sure yet.

I admit that I'm getting a little antsy...I'd like to enjoy all the performance I've paid for instead of just admiring the parts themselves. As much as I enjoy the challenge of proper assembly, this particular upgrade has taken waaay longer (and been waaay more expensive) than I originally envisioned.
Sure would be nice to get to play with Sprocket before she's completely obsolete...:dry:

j2k4

02-25-2006, 03:03 PM

Patience, patience. :)

Tell me though:

If your water-cooled PC overheated, would your glasses fog up? :P

BTW-

Will you be home over the weekend, sir?

clocker

02-25-2006, 04:13 PM

Yeah, yeah...patience is a virtue and all that.

Virtualbody1234

02-25-2006, 04:31 PM

Yeah but get a move on!

clocker

02-25-2006, 04:48 PM

I'm trying, believe me.

It was sooo nice to be back on my own mouse and keyboard with a system that is as responsive and quick as Sprock has become.

I miss her already.

clocker

03-01-2006, 04:07 AM

Long time, no see, folks.
Much has been happening.
Outside of a pressing family matter (all's well that ends well, thank you) that distracted me for a few days, I still had the delay of the replacement waterblock to deal with.
In typical fashion I decided to use the down time (both literal and figurative) to mod the mod and upgrade the upgrade.

In the short time Sprocket was alive last week I noticed a few shortcomings that needed to be addressed.
Most pressing was the total failure of the reservoir to entrap air. This was not entirely unexpected but I had hoped the cute little w00tan rez would work but with my high flow loop it just didn't.
So I got this instead. (http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-res-80.html) We'll see if their advertising hype is true or not.
Also arriving in the mail is more Patriot RAM. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220082) Inspired by the early overclocking success of the Opteron I decided to go for the gusto again (this will be my third attempt at running high-performance 1GB sticks).
The final new upgrade is the readdition of a NB waterblock, missing from the latest loop, but very effective in previous incarnations.
Of course, my old Maze block had been bundled into a sale of other stuff so I have the new Swiftech MCW30 (httphttp://www.frozencpu.com/ex-blc-268.html://) on the way. I hope it proves as good as the old DD block which kept my NB around 25-27C before. Running with just a HSF this time 'round, Sprocket was in the mid to high 30's, actually hotter than the video card was.
Weird.

On the modding side of things I decided to rip the whole chassis down to touch up damage to the paint from the rigors of assembly and also to cut the floor away to match the radiator fans.
Previously the rad has been mounted to a Plexi subfloor raised above the stock CM floorgrill. Although this seemed to work OK, I thought I could improve the whole setup by dispensing with the false floor and fully opening up the grill to allow for optimal breathing.
Like so...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/floor1.jpg
There are a couple of side benefits to this which hopefully will become apparent later.
Right now I'm at a bit of an impass...need to let the paint dry overnight and have a few more pieces to make before reassembly commences.
As soon as the waterblocks arrive (please Jeebus, by Saturday at the latest!) we'll start this all over again.

clocker

03-02-2006, 12:58 PM

Minor pictoral update today- lots has gotten done but most of it is not installed yet.
The rad is installed and it fits beautifully. It's now possible to remove the mobo tray without the radiator getting in the way. I also decided to refit the wheels, raising the chassis further above the desk to make sure the fans aren't starved for air...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/floorfannage.jpg
These 140mm fans are also LED lit and I hope the blue glow is not too distracting.

I took a somewhat sideways jaunt and remounted the power switch. The logic behind this will be obvious later but the main reason was just to see if it could be done. Naturally, it was much more involved than I thought it would be but everything worked out in the end...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/onnew.jpg
The reset button, along with the clear CMOS switch will be mounted on the backplane, accessable without opening the case but safely out of harm's way.

Two other big changes occured yesterday- a bundled sale of my unused LL v2000 case came to fruition and I got yet another Raptor.
Unfortunately, part of the case sale includes the Antec Neopower PSU that I've been using so I'm going to have to refit (and majorly rewire) the Seasonic 600w into the Stacker. This time I'm going to try and do it right...sleeving and the whole nine yards of custom fitting the loom...which will probably take an entire day to complete.

The new Raptor (another 74GB) was complete happenstance.
I saw an ad for it and the seller was desperate for cash so we worked out a trade...my 36GB unit plus $50 for the 74GB drive.
I decided I really missed the snappy response that RAID0 provides so the two big Raptors will be set up RAIDed and I'm going to toss the 120GB Seagate back in also. Unfortunately they will all have to fit in the same space previously occupied by just two drives so active cooling is a must. I still have two more 140mm fans I can use but the whole front bezel has to be redone to accomodate them and I'm also going to reinstall the two Sunbeam rheobus controllers to manage all the fannage.
Much of this work is already done but cannot be installed until the waterpump is in place (it is also being slightly relocated but can still use the mount I made before...I think).

So, here I sit...mostly done (yeah, right:P ), just waiting on the final pieces of the puzzle to arrive. The RAM and reservoir are in hand and I'm waiting on the new HDD and the NB and GPU waterblocks.
If I can get all the pre-prep done, once these things show up it should only take a day or so to finish.

Maybe.

Snee

03-02-2006, 04:25 PM

S!X

03-03-2006, 02:03 AM

Snee

03-03-2006, 02:21 AM

Do you use some silicon dampener/gasket-thingies or something (ie: Something like this (http://www.atruereview.com/acoustifan/04.jpg)) when you mount your fans?

I dunno' if they are very necessary or useful, but I'm using them on three of my fans :unsure:

There pretty much useless imo.
I dunno', man.

I checked some reviews after I posted that, and the consensus seems to be that they help.

Can't say I noticed any change tho' :ermm: I Just got them to protect my paint-job when I get around to sorting that out.

clocker

03-03-2006, 11:22 AM

I think it would depend on the PSU and fans...none of my fans spin up fast enough to really cause vibration so the isolators would be useless.
With all five 140mm fans and three 120's going, the loudest sound in the case is HDD seek noises.
The turbine fans are effectively silent.

Snee

03-03-2006, 12:46 PM

That'd sort of explain why I noticed no change, I've got fairly silent fans as well, except for the one on the graphics card, and I've got no dampener on that one.

Reefa_Madness

03-04-2006, 04:19 AM

clocker,

You get my first post...I had to come check out your worklog.

You are clearly a man that pays attention to detail. Have only read a few of the pages but continue to be impressed by the quality of the work that is clearly reflected in the pics you've posted.

There...I gave you the praises that we contracted for...please be sure to mail my check. :)

All kidding aside...nice work man.

clocker

03-04-2006, 12:42 PM

Virtualbody1234

03-04-2006, 12:56 PM

Welcome Reefa...

clocker

03-04-2006, 01:02 PM

VB, he prolly won't respond unless you pay him.

Virtualbody1234

03-04-2006, 01:35 PM

VB, he prolly won't respond unless you pay him.
Bling! Bling!

http://photos6.flickr.com/9142126_176310be7e.jpg

S!X

03-05-2006, 07:20 AM

I'll give you a fotie a OE if you make another post reefa.

clocker

03-05-2006, 12:17 PM

I'll give you a fotie a OE...
I have no idea what this means...

BTW,
I can now officially say that I hate sheathing cables.
What a PITA.
The main ATX bundle on the S12 is only 16" long, about 4" shorter than it needed to be. Previously I ran it under the motherboard which got me by but this time I decided to add an extender and do it right.
However, I did not want an extra 24 pin connector block cluttering up the space so I've de-pinned them, reconnected the fittings and heatshrinked each wire. Now I have to remove the end block to slide the sheathing over the wires.
The remaining wiring will be much simpler to deal with.

That's what I keep telling myself at any rate.

Reefa_Madness

03-05-2006, 03:39 PM

Hi Reef.

Folks, allow me to introduce a friend from OC forums.
The Reef is also quite the artisan and a fearsome competitor for goods in the Classifieds.
A wily capitalist, I have somehow become indebted to him for unsolicited praise (really, I'm going to have to read the small print in our contract).
If we are lucky he'll post some shots of his setup which, judging from the purchases he's been making, is a groundbreaking amalgam of high-flow active and low-flow passive components.

Thanks, guy.

Thanks for the intro...I think.

groundbreaking amalgam? Easy to do...just put the cpu on the high-flow loop and the gpu on the low-flow loop and just let the NB sit there and pout under the fan. :)

And speaking of water cooling...Liquid3D sent me an email yesterday to let me know he is shipping parts out on Monday or Tuesday, so if all goes well that passive AquaCool system should actually be in my possession soon (along with a real nice assortment of German made blocks).

With respect to pics, unlike you, I don't have the talents to mod a case and make it look like it came that way from the vendor, so I go for what best suits my style/talents, which is the bolt together testing station type setup. I have one in the planning stage and if I ever get it to the point of it being worthy to share, I'll post those pics, otherwise, I just don't believe anyone here would be interested in my rats nest of cables and hoses.

OK, now that I've posted...please kindly send PPP (Pay-Per-Post) funds to my PayPal account at [email protected], as business is just getting off the ground and cash flow is king at the moment.

Later guys...got tax returns to work on.

Virtualbody1234

03-05-2006, 03:44 PM

... and if I ever get it to the point of it being worthy to share, I'll post those pics, otherwise, I just don't believe anyone here would be interested in my rats nest of cables and hoses...
I'm interested and I suspect others are too.

Post away!

clocker

03-06-2006, 07:18 AM

I'm interested also.
Not interested enough to pay though...

Sprocket is currently formatting in preparation for my two millionth Windows install.
I tired of waiting for the rest of my waterblocks to show up so I toddled over to Microcenter and picked up some temporary Danger Den stuff to use. Filling/bleeding went well...the new reservoir actually works and the system is as quiet as one could reasonably expect.

I'm actually quite proud of this incarnation...everything went together as planned and worked the first time.
I'll admit to cheating a bit on the PSU sheathing...I ran out of the proper size with the PCI-e cable left to do but I didn't feel like buying a whole kit just to do the one bundle, so I just let it go. Maybe I'll get to it someday (doubtful) and it's not that terribly obvious (making excuses) so for now I'm calling it quits.
Frankly, I had no idea this would all take as much time as it did and I'm tired of all the work.

Temporarily, I'm sure.
For now, I think I'll kill the remaining Bass Ales in the fridge and just luxuriate in Sprocket's splendor.

clocker

03-07-2006, 12:48 PM

No comment necessary.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/superpi29.jpg
But I'll make one anyway....
Looks like 2.9GHz is going to be the sweet spot for Sprocket's current config.
She will pass MemTest and was Prime stable for 8 hours at this speed.

I'm about to embark on a burn-in procedure that takes several days to complete. With any luck, we'll hit 3 GHz stability on only 1.35/1.375v. Currently at 1.425v, which ain't bad but the lower, the better.

The difference between the Opteron and the Winchester is quite pronounced and I'm happy I took the plunge.

Still dinking around with some minor construction details- when they are done I'll splash some pics up.

clocker

03-09-2006, 12:45 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/bench2.jpg
Note the relatively high core voltage.
Today we do the same thing with the voltage lowered to 1.425.
Tomorrow- with luck- repeat at 1.35v
Then the HTT gets raised and we see what happens.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/3dmark3.jpg
Trying the beta nVidia drivers.
Seem to have lost a bit...
Hmmm, maybe Omega's?

clocker

03-13-2006, 01:27 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/stressprime.jpg
So far this is my most stable setup.
Although I can boot and cruise Windows at lower core voltage, Sprocket is not Prime (or SuperPi 32m) stable at those settings.

The mobo temp is so high because adding the northbridge block precluded the fan over the PWM area...the hoses are in the way.
When my Neptune block returns from it's refurb (which is taking waaay too long, IMO) I have an idea to rectify this but I won't know till I try.

Still getting a grip on the behaviour of the Patriot 1GB sticks.
So far they seem to scale as well as the 512MB units did and I'm much happier with them than previous attempts with PC3200 versions (these are PC3500's).
Once again I will recommend Patriot to anyone looking for major bang-for-the-buck performance...we have almost completely switched from Mushkin (which seems to have taken a major dive lately) to Patriot at the shop.
The stuff just plain works.

As soon as the Neptune block returns I'll take some shots of the final loop install...looks like this round of upgrades is nearly done.

Whew! and hurrah.

Oh, almost forgot these...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/3dmark06.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/3dmark01.jpg
Not sure how these score compare, but that's what she gets...
And a bit more...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/sp28.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/pcps28.jpg

j2k4

03-13-2006, 11:13 PM

I wish I knew how good that is. :huh:

sArA

03-14-2006, 12:17 AM

I wish I knew how good that is. :huh:

Me too.....damn my non-technical brain :(

@ clocker and others....

How about giving us a 'laymans' explanation, for those of us interested in the ideas, but who are lacking in the technical savvy department?.. :)

Virtualbody1234

03-14-2006, 12:23 AM

What caused the red or yellow flag deduction?

clocker

03-14-2006, 04:03 AM

I wish I knew how good that is. :huh:
You can know...just run it on your PC and see what ya get...
SuperPi. (http://www.xtremesystems.com/pi/super_pi_mod-1.5.zip)
Download (free and safe) and open.
At the top of the window click "Calculate" and choose 1M.
At the small window that will apear "Now begin to calculate..." click OK.
It'll do the rest.
Just by way of reference...the really fast guys are doing this in 21-23 seconds, but they are using a bunch of tricks to get there- like running in safe mode with the process upped to realtime and other little tweaks.

How about giving us a 'laymans' explanation, for those of us interested in the ideas, but who are lacking in the technical savvy department?..
Most of the benchies I posted are either straight video performance or variations that mix in CPU stress also.
You can get the easiest and fastest, which is Aquamark03, here. (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=673)
Again, it's free and although you'll get some advertising pop-ups, safe.
With the free version your options are limited (well, none really) so just open the app, click on "select measurement" and on the next screen click on "start measurement". Then watch the show.
It's kinda fun (the first few times).
Another test you can take is the PC Pitstop test (www.pcpitstop.com, click on "full tests").
This will measure several aspects of your PC's performance and generate a score which you can then compare (look for "system comparison" buried in the results page) to other, reputedly similar, PCs.

Although I admit to enjoying comparisons (as long as I do well of course) the real benefit to these is the ability to tweak your machine and run tests to see what, if any, advances you have made.

What caused the red or yellow flag deduction?
I really have no idea...they claim it's for internet download speed, but DSL Reports and CNET both show my connection in the 6.5-8 MB/s range which is completely normal.

S!X

03-14-2006, 05:04 AM

Clocker which beta nvidia drivers are you using? Try the 84.20's there pwnsauce.

j2k4

03-15-2006, 01:01 AM

Whew.

My 1M score was 49 seconds and small change.

Poor little laptop...:(

clocker

03-15-2006, 09:56 PM

Whew.

My 1M score was 49 seconds and small change.

Poor little laptop...:(
So now you know "how good that was".

A hidden side benefit of such a comparison ( the two obvious benefits were to instill a bit of abject humility -admittedly a lost cause with you, K- and to increase the glory of Sprocket's e-gina (have I coined a new term?...hmmmm...) is that you could concievably make a future processor buying decision based on result(s) such as these.

Yeah, yeah, I know, one SuperPi result doesn't tell you much, but it does begin to quantify the differences 'tween PCs in an easily graspable format.

BTW...how'd the Dell do, dude?

Sara...still awaitng results.

j2k4

03-15-2006, 11:20 PM

Whew.

My 1M score was 49 seconds and small change.

Poor little laptop...:(

BTW...how'd the Dell do, dude?

Scary prospect.

Lemme check.

Ugh-2' 13".

Poor little P4 1.3G :(

clocker

03-16-2006, 02:42 AM

We all feel it's pain.:stars:

clocker

03-16-2006, 12:59 PM

Well, I finally got motivated to finish the side panel yesterday so Sprocket's shell is complete.
Due to technical considerations I was unable to make the sidepanel window's rear margin match the roof vent's, which I consider an aesthetic boo-boo, but overall the look is what I was aiming for.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/Mesh.jpg
If I could start again ( and I'm not :whistling), not only would those margins line up but I probably wouldn't have the fillport mounted in the roof either...seemed like a good idea at the time but doesn't add any useful functionality and ruins the clean look it had previously.
Oh well.

As for the front...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/meshfront.jpg
This is probably going to change.
The fan controllers are probably going to go, replaced with a CrystalFontz display.
None of the AeroCool Turbine fans will start with less than 12v (probably due to the LEDs) and in use they are so quiet that regulating them down is pointless.
Then again, I may just let her stand and move on to the Apple G5 case project...

j2k4

03-16-2006, 08:29 PM

Snazzy, though the effect of that first pic is seriously marginalized by the unexplained (and unexplainable) presence of a VHS copy of Cabaret. :huh:

clocker

03-17-2006, 01:11 AM

I'm glad you picked up on that nuance.

I keep my life savings in that box knowing full well that no one will ever touch it.

Liza was cute though....

j2k4

03-17-2006, 02:46 AM

I'm glad you picked up on that nuance.

I keep my life savings in that box knowing full well that no one will ever touch it.

Liza was cute though....

True enough...would that she had stayed that way.

Reefa_Madness

03-18-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefa_Madness
... and if I ever get it to the point of it being worthy to share, I'll post those pics, otherwise, I just don't believe anyone here would be interested in my rats nest of cables and hoses...

I'm interested also.
Not interested enough to pay though...

In reply (late as it may be) to your above comment, my ultimate objective is something along the lines of this linked project, but taylored to my specific needs.

http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320

I am quite sure that my first attempt will not result in anything quite as polished as this, but I'll first shoot for function, then concern myself with form at a later date/revision. It will give you an idea, however, of where I'm going with it. I want ease of use, but a little more flair than the "mobo on top of a cardboard box" look as often portrayed over at XS.

This second link is to the source of the pic, as well as the rest of the gallery.

http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/index.php?module=photoshare&func=showimages&fid=11

clocker

03-19-2006, 10:27 AM

fkdup74

03-20-2006, 03:28 AM

I've been thinking of fabbing something along those lines as well. Wierd.

Wierder yet, I was looking at the pics of Sprocket, and,
dude, I swear this isn't my imagination.....she winked at me. :ph34r:

clocker

03-20-2006, 10:11 AM

Wierder yet, I was looking at the pics of Sprocket, and,
dude, I swear this isn't my imagination.....she winked at me. :ph34r:
She's a total slut.
Now that the new Gigabyte I-Ram has come out she'll be whoring about trying to lure somebody/anybody into buying her one.
You know- flash a little thigh, shake a little booty....whatever it takes.

fkdup74

03-20-2006, 12:57 PM

Now that the new Gigabyte I-Ram has come out...
Didn't know they were available yet. Nice.
Time to start looking into some new toys. :happy:

Virtualbody1234

03-20-2006, 01:33 PM

About the Gigabyte I-ram...

It might be a good idea to wait a bit to see if they make them with support for 300MB/s transfer rates.

clocker

03-20-2006, 01:47 PM

About the Gigabyte I-ram...

It might be a good idea to wait a bit to see if they make them with support for 300MB/s transfer rates.
Indeed.
Fun as it may be to play with, it'd cost $400 for me to get just a 2 GB setup...a bit pricey.
My next big acquisition is gonna be a Dell 2405 anyway.

Virtualbody1234

03-20-2006, 01:55 PM

Nice Dell. I'm looking into 42" Plasma or maybe DLP.

fkdup74

03-20-2006, 02:01 PM

About the Gigabyte I-ram...

It might be a good idea to wait a bit to see if they make them with support for 300MB/s transfer rates.

Which would bring it up to ludicrous speed. (Spaceballs, anyone?)

It already blows 4-drive Raid 0s away in nearly all of the benches I read at techreport.com.
Wins all but one bench I think, but literally destroys Raid 0 in most.
That with being held at the 150MB/s SATA I spec.

On the other hand....

The RAM controller is limited to 1GB DIMMs, so 4GB per card.
You can stripe the cards, but then it's just getting too damned expensive.
i.e. (2) I-rams @ ~$130 USD, (8) 1 GB sticks of RAM..... :no:

Hell, (1) I-ram + (4) gigasticks is bad enough.

Reefa_Madness

03-21-2006, 01:52 AM

Another scary case of parallel thinking Reef...I had just been comtemplating This article (http://www.bit-tech.net/modding/2006/03/02/highspeed_pc_tech_station/1.html) and musing about a self-made version.
The entire concept is oddly compelling.

Carry on and keep us posted.

That HSPC version is an evolution of the original Senfu. I had an opportunity to buy one of those Senfus a while back for $30. Should have done it just for grins. I could have put my PSU on it, as that is about all that would fit on the tiny thing.

http://www.modthebox.com/review51_1.shtml

"Another scary case of parallel thinking"

clocker,
You are just so punny...it is actually another non-case example of parallel thinking. :)

I noticed that HSPC has a patent pending...there went one more money making venture out the door... :(

clocker

03-21-2006, 11:06 AM

clocker,
You are just so punny...it is actually another non-case example of parallel thinking. :)

That will be quite enough of that, young man.
Double punnage is explicitly prohibited in the EULA you agreed to.

j2k4

03-21-2006, 08:52 PM

clocker

03-23-2006, 02:03 AM

Re: Gigabyte I-RAM...

Just for grins (and because my regular XP Pro requires phone activation) I reinstalled 64bit XP Pro today.
It's the 180 day "trial version" and it activates with no problem.
Had a bit of trouble finding working SATA/RAID drivers but finally found a viable floppy image and the install proceeded without a hitch.
Haven't done any benching yet and don't expect any miraculous improvements.

Compared to my last foray into 64bit computing I must say that driver support has improved significantly...was able to obtain all Sprocket's needs in about 15 minutes of light Google work.

Anyways....
My C: drive, with minimal programs installed, comes to 3.57GB.
Just barely squeezable into a four gig I-RAM setup.
Nice as it may be, I think that I'll wait for a larger solid state storage solution to arrive...the I-RAM works out to about $150 per GB which is still a bit rich for me.

Sprocket disagrees, of course.

clocker

03-24-2006, 01:05 PM

Recieved a new toy yesterday...it's a real cutie.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/nbhp.jpg
The soon to be famous Jing-Ting ChipForce northbridge heatpipe cooler.
The Zippo lighter gives you some idea of how diminuitive this thing is.

Just trying to keep my options open here...putting a waterblock on the northbridge really eats up my open slots- the vid card has to default to the upper (max 8x) PCI-e slot and I have but one PCI slot free.
With any luck, this unit will work well enough ("well enough" defined as 30 to 35C NB temps)to allow the vid card to move back down to PCI-e #1, which means I could go SLI or even add the I-RAM card (assuming I hit the Powerball).

At any rate, it's worth a shot.

On a side note, I cracked 3K on the PC Pitstop test.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/pcps3012.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/pcps3012-2.jpg
I've noticed that...
a). there are never any Intel chips anywhere near the top scores- perhaps the test discriminates?
b). dual core AMDs kill me in CPU score (I've seen as high as 16,000 for an x2 4200) but their memory scores are way lower.
c). the RAID array kicks ass in the disk scoring, which only confirms the seat-of-the-pants impression when using the PC.

Still waiting on the arrival of my replacement GPU block (yes, this is getting ridiculous)...when it comes I can try out the Jing-Ting thing and see how it works...