56k Users

[little_drunkard]

Do 56K users feel rejected on kazaa? we can't share properly 'cause we have no bandwidth...but all the people that have fast connections cancel our downloads! doesn't that piss you off?

[clocker]

Originally posted by little_drunkard@21 April 2003 - 19:34
Do 56K users feel rejected on kazaa? we can't share properly 'cause we have no bandwidth...but all the people that have fast connections cancel our downloads! doesn't that piss you off?
Although I now enjoy the many splendors of BroadBand, when I first started on Kazaa, waaaay back last November, I was hobbled to a 56k modem. Believe me, I well remember the pain. However, I still managed to share enough to achieve Supreme Being status and was NEVER cancelled ( that I'm aware of ) because of my slow speed.
I think you may recieve a false impression from reading this forum. These folks are the most active people on the network and their views, I sometimes think, represent only a small % of users in toto. Most of my friends start a download and go watch tv, or whatever. Few , if any, sit glued to their monitors, religiously ready to police the network and smite the weak or the selfish. The 56k'ers are actually the majority I believe, and the pie is big enough for us all.

[Jibbler]

Yeah, there is alot less broadband users out there than people think. I'm on cable, and I very rarely get good speeds for download. In fact, most of my uploads are at 1k or 2k.

[m8t]

B)
hi there !
i've only had broadband for six months. prior to that like just about everyone else, i had 56k for years(also achieving supreme being status) they call me GURU these days, i'm not sure if that is good or bad. however one of my biggest downloads was achieved pre broadband in a remarkable time, due to the numerous users on my computer being afforded by k++ .i'll never forget it and i will never kick any user in the process.
regards
m8t :D

[DarthInsinuate]

not really rejected - just a minor member of the filesharing community

[ObiWan]

:angry: i'm stuck on 56k and i dont get kicked very much and normally get quite good speeds (for a 56k modem) of about 4KB/s

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by ObiWan@22 April 2003 - 12:57
:angry: i'm stuck on 56k and i dont get kicked very much and normally get quite good speeds (for a 56k modem) of about 4KB/s
Yes, but the problem with 56k is that people try to download too many files at once. I have people trying to get mp3s from me, at 1.06k, or some crap like that. I assure you, i'm on a fast cable, and I'm not tying up both of my send slots for an hour or more, just so that you can get one fucking mp3. If you are 56k, you need to download 1 file at a time, otherwise you are wasting my upload bandwidth.

I do not normally cut of anyone who trys to get files, but there is a limit to everything.

[RealitY]

Originally posted by Jibbler@22 April 2003 - 19:31
Yes, but the problem with 56k is that people try to download too many files at once. I have people trying to get mp3s from me, at 1.06k, or some crap like that. I assure you, i'm on a fast cable, and I'm not tying up both of my send slots for an hour or more, just so that you can get one fucking mp3. If you are 56k, you need to download 1 file at a time, otherwise you are wasting my upload bandwidth.

I do not normally cut of anyone who trys to get files, but there is a limit to everything.
1. I am suprised Jb to hear you say this. If a 56ker tries to dl to many files, he will be waiting a long time for them, so what, its his time. Are you to prioritize how he dl. If you are worried about a user tying up "both" your slots, then what do you do if there are 2 sepereate 56k users in your slots?
2. If you are on fast cable and you are concerned about tying up "both" (am I to understand you only allow 2 slots on your fast cable??) of your ul slots then have 5 or 10 allowing 56kers to sit in some and we fast calble users can ul from you as well. Then they can get their one fucking mp3 (geez ur hostile) and we can enjoy our speed as well.
3. This is not a "fast" user only service, 56kers are the majority and support this heavily.
4. When I dl a file with multiple sources, lets say 20, once I expand the folder about 15 (75%) of the slots are filled with low speeds (56kers), and I am glad they are there. Thanks to even you 56kers my dl will be faster than without you.
5. I truly hope you do not only have 2 slots, because odds are that the majority of ul will be consumed by 56kers and the minority on fast bb conections will not be able to ul from you. This brings no justice. I always have at least 5 slots, sometimes as many as 10 if I am holding something in demand and not dl at the time.
6. I think 56kers should have 1 slot maybe 2 available for ul, and if having a bandwidth issue, possibly surfing and dl at the same time (this was the worst when I had 56k, pages loaded while I went and took a shit, when I came back they were still loading), then in this case maybe none.

I think you need to reconsider these views. <_<

[clocker]

Originally posted by Jibbler@22 April 2003 - 12:31
&nbsp; If you are 56k, you need to download 1 file at a time, otherwise you are wasting my upload bandwidth.

I do not normally cut of anyone who trys to get files, but there is a limit to everything.
I too am quite surprised by the vehemence of your views on this subject, Jibby.

If you think about it, your upload screen is a passive activity and your download screen is active. How many downloads you run will directly affect your speed both in Kazaa and websurfing. The activity on your upload bandwidth has no effect on you at all. The amount of bandwidth assigned to uploading remains constant whether you have a 56k&#39;er struggling to get a mp3 or a BB user blazing through a movie.
So...

Why the hell do you care?

With all the bandwidth available to you don&#39;t you have more interesting things to look at than your boring little upload screen?

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by clocker@22 April 2003 - 14:28
If you think about it, your upload screen is a passive activity and your download screen is active. How many downloads you run will directly affect your speed both in Kazaa and websurfing. The activity on your upload bandwidth has no effect on you at all. The amount of bandwidth assigned to uploading remains constant whether you have a 56k&#39;er struggling to get a mp3 or a BB user blazing through a movie.
With respect to Clocker and Reality, I&#39;ll try to answer your questions as best I can.

Due to the nature of files that I share, I restrict bandwidth based upon what I am sharing. For instance, if I have a movie that just became available for download, I will "unshare" everything else on my machine, so that these files get priority. I may restrict my uploads to 2 sends slots, to ensure that other fast users are getting the files as quickly as I can provide them. I guess I&#39;m saying that I would rather have 2 upload slots, giving out a max of 30k, instead of 10 slots that can only upload at 5k. This may seem harsh to you, but other users on cable/dsl want my files. If they download them from me at the same speed as a 56ker, then their bandwidth is not being utilized, and thus we are using fast connections, but slowing down the spread of files on the network. This is commonly known as powersharing.

Another point that I will quickly make, is Kazaa uses alot of resources, and having lots of constant uploads requires more of my processor. I have a p4, lots of ram, blah, blah, blah.. its plenty fast, and I need that processing speed for other applications like eMule and mIRC where I constantly trade files. Without IRC, most you wouldn&#39;t ever get any of the files being ripped for you. Also, very few of you have DVD-R burners. When you finally make this jump, you will recognize how intensive this can be on your machine. My resources are valuable, and I&#39;m interested in spreading the files as quickly as possible given the limited resources available to me.

During the night, my kazaa runs 24/7 while I sleep, so any user can login and get what they want. However, when I&#39;m here, in front of my machine, I sometimes will cut off a user if they are on an extremely slow connection. This is very rare, but yes, it does happen.

[clocker]

Well Jibbler, since I don&#39;t participate at your level I can&#39;t really judge your actions.Perhaps I would do the same, perhaps not.
Moot point really.
You are almost certainly in the minority with respect to the number of files you share and the equipment you use to do so.
For the rest of us the problem (?) of 56k&#39;ers is simply a non issue.
You do what you feel best as will I.

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by clocker@22 April 2003 - 16:25
You are almost certainly in the minority with respect to the number of files you share and the equipment you use to do so.
Please don&#39;t misunderstand me. I&#39;m not saying that everyone should follow my lead. I am saying that there are legitimate reasons why people choose to do what they do. Let me explain further.

Lets say I have a file, a new movie, that I&#39;m going to make available. No matter how I share it, only those people on my supernode will be able to download it. If I setup my kazaa for multiple connects, like 10 for instance, then 10 users could download at once. All those users are getting very slow download speeds, so it will take forever to get this file to all of them. Essentially, I&#39;ve created lots of partial downloads, but still there are no more sources available. Makes sense so far right?

Ok, here is where I come in. Partial downloads do not help files to spread, only completed files are recognized as available sources. So if I powershare the file, and I&#39;m able to get the complete file to other fast users, they will disconnect and eventually reconnect on different nodes, thus the file will actually spread. So by sending the file to other fast users, it becomes available on more supernodes, and thus gets to you quicker. This is the trouble with using sig2dat for rare files. You hash it and post it, but most people can&#39;t find sources, because the files are not being spread fast enough.

Its all about the math. I mean, I could manipulate the numbers one way, and you could do it another. Mainly, I&#39;m just pointing out that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[clocker]

Originally posted by Jibbler@22 April 2003 - 15:36


Its all about the math. I mean, I could manipulate the numbers one way, and you could do it another. Mainly, I&#39;m just pointing out that there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Indeed there is.

Too many of the furry little bastards anyway.

[bulio]

Dsl and t2 is the way of the future. plus with 56k it is impossible to download any file over 15,000 kb cuz it only goes at like 4.0kb/s at the fastest

[clocker]

Originally posted by bulio@22 April 2003 - 17:04
Dsl and t2 is the way of the future. plus with 56k it is impossible to download any file over 15,000 kb cuz it only goes at like 4.0kb/s at the fastest
I disagree.

DSL and T lines (1,2 and 3) are nice for right now but hardly innovative.
Many of the big telecommunications companies in the US are saddled with brutal debt. Quest Communications, right here in Denver, is facing a debt payment of 6 BILLION due in 2005.
They are toast.

Meanwhile, working feverishly in the backround are the Public Utility companies, already testing in New Jersey(?) technology which uses the nation&#39;s power grid to transmit communication signals.
We are ALL already wired.
The internet as close as the nearest wall outlet&#33;

Now that is the wave of the future&#33;


btw- I amassed almost my entire South Park collection while still on a dial-up connecion. It IS painful, but hardly impossible. You should be more patient... :D

[Switeck]

Originally posted by bulio@22 April 2003 - 18:04
Dsl and t2 is the way of the future. plus with 56k it is impossible to download any file over 15,000 kb cuz it only goes at like 4.0kb/s at the fastest
You&#39;re getting up to 4 kb/s download speeds?
Heck, irregardless of what you&#39;re on, for any particular file that&#39;s not stupidly common -- you may only get a download at 1 kb/s or less. :(

[gd9k]

I used 56k over 10 years now, and now I’m finally on broadband...so therefore I allow everybody to leech off of me anytime and I even helped some out by compressing and dividing it

Experiences is all some people actually needed

[Ma5t3rM1nD]

Well I have had and still do have 56k for the past few years. When I did discover File Sharing it brought a new world too me all these file&#39;s to download for free. I started downloading small mp3 files usually taking up to 15 minutes for a 192kbps file. Soon I went onto "bigger" things like movie files 100+ megs takes me about 6 hours. This believe it or not seems fast to me because somehow I maange to get speeds of 5kbps. On a 56k I considered this quite fast so I download my movies in quite a good time for my speed. I even mangane to surf the web at a very good speed I&#39;m downloading a file of Kazza Lite right now at 4.39Kb off only 3 user&#39;s. So usually people with fast connections are petty they put a bandwidth limit upload and let anyone upload of them and go to sleep or do whatever. But their is user&#39;s on Winmx and such that actually kill your download just for been 56k and it hurts. Right now in Australia Broadband connections are quite expensive. I could get one but their is download limits it ask&#39;s you to pay &#036;60-&#036;70 for about 300/megs a month on 128k. If that isn&#39;t a rip of I don&#39;t know what is. But it seems broadband price&#39;s are changing in recent months here and across the world. So as it gets cheaper soon enough 56k won&#39;t even be heard off anymore. It just piss me off people with connection speeds of like 1MB/s kill of 56k&#39;ers. How is smoeone uploading at about 4kbps going to affect them. I have downloaded quite a few huge files thanks to some very grateful user&#39;s on Kazza it took me only two nights and I had downloaded 1GBs+ from two files on my connection. So if given a chance 56k&#39;rs can get alright speeds and killing them off is just killing off p2p and it&#39;s nearly as bad as leeching. Which many people seem to call 56&#39;kers even though slow 90% of 56k&#39;ers aren&#39;t leechers we share nearly as much as Broadband connections. So please I ask all the people with Broadband connection to be fair and share so we can all get a chance.

[RealitY]

Originally posted by Jibbler@22 April 2003 - 22:36
Lets say I have a file, a new movie, that I&#39;m going to make available. No matter how I share it, only those people on my supernode will be able to download it. If I setup my kazaa for multiple connects, like 10 for instance, then 10 users could download at once. All those users are getting very slow download speeds, so it will take forever to get this file to all of them. Essentially, I&#39;ve created lots of partial downloads, but still there are no more sources available. Makes sense so far right?

Ok, here is where I come in. Partial downloads do not help files to spread, only completed files are recognized as available sources. So if I powershare the file, and I&#39;m able to get the complete file to other fast users, they will disconnect and eventually reconnect on different nodes, thus the file will actually spread. So by sending the file to other fast users, it becomes available on more supernodes, and thus gets to you quicker. This is the trouble with using sig2dat for rare files. You hash it and post it, but most people can&#39;t find sources, because the files are not being spread fast enough.
Ok, then by definition you are on top of the food chain (he he).
Although I could agree should you be monitoring your uploads nostop and booting all 56kers you would then in essence be doing all of us on bb a great sevice. Though this is not realistic nor believable to me, sorry to say. I also carry rare files at times as well and may unshare others to create priority, but in being realistic I know 56kers (being the majority) will jump in my slots while I am taking a shit or... As to such, I allow more slots to compinsate for this (usually 5) so that bb users will also be present in my upload. If I were to watch just 2 bb users or 3 56kers and 2 bb users, the bb users are getting the same speeds either way (the bw is not so limited) and I do not have monitor this as the averages of users blend into the slots, thus I can dump relaxed while spreading (files perv) and be 56k stress free making my bowels feel all the better. :rolleyes:

[RealitY]

Originally posted by nWa Th3 NeW GeN3rAtIoN@23 April 2003 - 02:53
So if given a chance 56k&#39;rs can get alright speeds and killing them off is just killing off p2p and it&#39;s nearly as bad as leeching.
Point well made.

[SHIFTY]

well i used to use 56k, then i coughed up the money and got DSL, so now i get everything, and yes i was bullied when i had 56k, couldnt use IRC, or Bit Torrent, it suckd, so i got DSL, sorry 56kers but u need to upgrade, its like comparing an x-box or a ps2 to the atari

[sim one]

I come to this site, I see people bitching that they&#39;re getting <5kb/s on Broadband. I get that much on 56k. Yes I would upgrade if I could, but

Right now in Australia Broadband connections are quite expensive. I could get one but their is download limits it ask&#39;s you to pay &#036;60-&#036;70 for about 300/megs a month on 128k.
And I&#39;ve got much better things to spend my money on at the moment.
And besides, no one seems to be complaing that I&#39;ve got a 56k connection while they&#39;re upload from me.

[j2k4]

I&#39;ll drop in just long enough to say I now understand Jibblers rationale-It&#39;s apparent he has taken a "larger" view which is beneficial to P2P. (A distinctly comservative tactic, that).

Clocker-I&#39;ve just been reading about the impending involvement of the utes
in broadband-good things are headed our way, though there will be a mess to clean up re: the big telecoms, for sure. If/when they go, I hope they go as quietly as possible, but.......... :huh:

[clocker]

Originally posted by j2k4@23 April 2003 - 09:11


Clocker-I&#39;ve just been reading about the impending involvement of the utes
in broadband-good things are headed our way, though there will be a mess to clean up re: the big telecoms, for sure. If/when they go, I hope they go as quietly as possible, but.......... :huh:
I envision an airline- like, tax- supported bailout for the telecom industry just over the horizon.
They shan&#39;t go down without demanding their pound of ( our ) flesh.
In my neck of the forest there is almost no competition among high-speed providers, it would be easy to speculate about industry collusion.
The thought of the "blue collar" pubutes sneaking up and stealing away a heretofore restricted market share would just tickle me pink ( that&#39;s as close as I can get&#33;).

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by clocker@23 April 2003 - 11:36
I envision an airline- like, tax- supported bailout for the telecom industry just over the horizon.

Don&#39;t expect to see this anytime in the near future. While I&#39;ll admit that its a possibility, I can&#39;t forsee this happening within the next 20 years. There will always be a need for hard wired service. Cellular phones and other technology like WiFi aren&#39;t even close to providing a reasonable connection speed for data. As technology inproves, DSL/cable may be phased out and replaced by wireless technology. However there will always be a demand for faster connections because the improvements in technology will huge amounts of data transfer.

Consider for example DSL/cable service. This is hard wired, and in 10 or 20 years, could be replaced by wireless technology as it improves. In 20 years, we won&#39;t be surfing the web on a computer, we&#39;ll be progressing into the field of virtual reality. This will require so much more data transfer, and it will only be achieved by running more "hard wires" throughout this nation of ours. I work for the largest telecommunications company in the US, soon to be worldwide. I assure you, there is no bailout coming.

[clocker]

I think you missed my point, Jibbler.
Many of the large telecom companies are faced with huge debt service.
They are going to ask for government bailouts to help them avoid bankrupcy.
The public utilities are planning on running communication service through their power (hard) lines.
They don&#39;t have to wire your house- it already is.
They already have a network in place and the means to service it. If they can perfect the technology they will be offering internet service for a fraction of what a telecom could.
Hence the bailout.

[Bass]

I too am a dial-up user, but unfortunately, after applying several times for a cable modem, have been told that it is not available in my area.The annoying thing is, my area was one of the first to have standard telephone lines and TV installed by that company.Wankers&#33;&#33;&#33;
cheers,
Bass. :ph34r:

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by clocker@23 April 2003 - 21:02
The public utilities are planning on running communication service through their power (hard) lines.
They don&#39;t have to wire your house- it already is.
They already have a network in place and the means to service it. If they can perfect the technology they will be offering internet service for a fraction of what a telecom could.

Its an exagerated myth that the power grid could be used for this purpose. There are lots of reasons for this, the most important being the structure of it all. Sure there are neat little gadgets that let you do this inside of your home, but it can&#39;t be applied to the entire network. I&#39;m not saying it can&#39;t ever be possible, but this just isn&#39;t the direction the telecom/data transfer industry is headed.

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by REALITY@23 April 2003 - 02:21
Ok, then by definition you are on top of the food chain (he he).

Well, sorta. There is a heirarchy to filetrading. Sure any of us could share the files we have, and even make our own rips. These can become shared and will slowly spread across the network. The files that I&#39;m referring to aren&#39;t my own rips. They are "professional rips" by ripping groups like Centropy, RNS, even TMD if you will. These files are posted to newsgroups anonymously, then they are slowed distributed, thru different networks, and then they ultimately get to you.

With all due respect, Kazaa is a wonderful service. However if you are getting files here, you are getting them last. Kazaa is the lowest level on the filesharing food chain. Other experienced users like Schmiggy and SuperJude will verify this concept. :)

Since I&#39;ve been doing this for so damn long, getting or finding files is easy for me. Check my contributions and posts in the verified section of musicworld. I post hashes first, and I try to get the files from point A to point B as fast as possible. I could probably fill most requests on this board, if only I had the time and available hard drive space. :huh:

Since I recently purchased a DVD burner, I rarely download movies anymore, so I no longer post hashes in that forum. I like this board, because of the good people here, the excellent conversation, and the hope that I might educate some of the inexperienced users here. B)

[Ad]

Yes i have 56k and i only do one download at a time i get about 4k u do feel bad when someone is UP of ya somtimes i get 3 UP at a time from the same person which is a pain in the ass coz they all go at 0.4k each i just cant afford Broadband

[RealitY]

Hmmm...

[RealitY]

Originally posted by Jibbler+24 April 2003 - 03:54--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jibbler @ 24 April 2003 - 03:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--REALITY@23 April 2003 - 02:21
Ok, then by definition you are on top of the food chain (he he).

Well, sorta...[/b][/quote]
First I also carry rare files at times, that need to distributed, especially on Kazaa.
Second, yes KaZaa is at the bottom generally.
Third, you have provided me with information that I am currently aware of and way to much of it while patting yourself.
I only suggested, if you read my post

Though this is not realistic nor believable to me, sorry to say. I also carry rare files at times as well and may unshare others to create priority, but in being realistic I know 56kers (being the majority) will jump in my slots while I am taking a shit or... As to such, I allow more slots to compinsate for this (usually 5) so that bb users will also be present in my upload. If I were to watch just 2 bb users or 3 56kers and 2 bb users, the bb users are getting the same speeds either way (the bw is not so limited) and I do not have monitor this as the averages of users blend into the slots
that you may simply add more slots to your ul as I do, and the 56kers that ul from you will not change your bandwidth much (if at all) going to us bb users, thus curing your griping aggravation with 56kers.
Last, you have managed to evade the whole purpose of my post and if all you say is true, then why the need to post comments

I&#39;m not tying up both of my send slots for an hour or more, just so that you can get one fucking mp3. If you are 56k, you need to download 1 file at a time, otherwise you are wasting my upload bandwidth.
that could only offend others (56kers).
You do seem however seem mighty proud of yourself, thus finding an avenue for it here in p2p land. I do not imagine, though possible, you are one of the team at TMD (or the like, quite bold) making shitty cam movies that bring a spotlight on us all here in p2p land as I stated my opinions as well HERE (http://www.klboard.ath.cx/bb/index.php?act=ST&f=13&t=28728&st=135).

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by REALITY@24 April 2003 - 02:24
You do seem however seem mighty proud of yourself, thus finding an avenue for it here in p2p land. I do not imagine, though possible, you are one of the team at TMD (or the like, quite bold) making shitty cam movies that bring a spotlight on us all here in p2p land
I didn&#39;t realize how arrogant I sounded until I re-read my post. My intention wasn&#39;t to brag. I was just trying offer some insight on how movie and music "releases" get from the ripper to you. I see it all over these boards, people begging for and requesting stuff that isn&#39;t out yet. People got spoiled by the early LOTR DVD copies that circulated. It seems that people expect these high quality warez to be available with ease, without giving thought to the process of sharing, or more importantly, spreading across the network.

While many people complain about TMD quality, I still think they provide an excellent "service" of providing small files and early copies across p2p. I&#39;m not part of the team at TMD, or any other ripping group. :(

There are basically 3 roles in filesharing land. The ripper, the distributors, and the sharers.

The ripper provides the goods, converts it to a file for the web, packages it usually in .TAR or .RAR files and posts it for the distributors.

The distributors take these files and try to send them out to as many users as possible. No one on 56k is on this level. These are usually users on T1 or T3 connections, though there are more and more DSL and Cable users due to the popularity of broadband. These files are being traded thru IRC, FTP and newsgroups.

Then finally, a user gets the files, and starts offering it on Kazaa. As more users pull the same file from IRC and share it in kazaa more sources become available. Of course, the users on kazaa are mostly all sharers, and that&#39;s a step in the right direction.

I&#39;m somewhere around the top of the second level. Mainly my post here was to share some insight for the people who can&#39;t seem to get their files fast enough. If more people understood the process, we&#39;d have a better community, and less "fake" files. B)

[m8t]

:D
hi there &#33;
being allocated 3000mb per month by my isp, if i had a choice of users uploading from my shared folder, i would pick ten 56k guys everytime. cable users get more of my mb than i do (i&#39;m not complaining) so hang in there &#33; you won&#39;t get a kick from me.
regards
m8t :)

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by m8t@25 April 2003 - 00:22
being allocated 3000mb per month by my isp, if i had a choice of users uploading from my shared folder, i would pick ten 56k guys everytime. cable users get more of my mb than i do (i&#39;m not complaining) so hang in there &#33; you won&#39;t get a kick from me.

see that, it all balances out :)

[RealitY]

Originally posted by Jibbler@25 April 2003 - 02:27
I didn&#39;t realize how arrogant I sounded until I re-read my post.&nbsp; My intention wasn&#39;t to brag.&nbsp; I was just trying offer some insight on how movie and music "releases" get from the ripper to you.&nbsp; I see it all over these boards, people begging for and requesting stuff that isn&#39;t out yet.&nbsp; People got spoiled by the early LOTR DVD copies that circulated.&nbsp; It seems that people expect these high quality warez to be available with ease, without giving thought to the process of sharing, or more importantly, spreading across the network.
Enough said, though in your posts I hadn&#39;t seen you as this reasonable. Anyway clue me in as I am taking steps you may have taken, I have read on News Goups and would like to know what programs you use (for rar, tar, joining etc...) and what I need to get rolling. I somehow see this a more Realistic loophole for us as the files are in chunks, how could this ever be stopped or be labeld as copyright infringement as they are not whole.

If so, I would write another song about "shit" and then claim I own all the notes in the song individually, and expect payment should anyone else use any of them&#33; Of course I would also own "shit" in all forms shapes and sizes, thanks to those in charge. :D

[Switeck]

Originally posted by Jibbler@24 April 2003 - 20:27
[QUOTE=REALITY,24 April 2003 - 02:24]There are basically 3 roles in filesharing land. The ripper, the distributors, and the sharers.

The distributors take these files and try to send them out to as many users as possible. No one on 56k is on this level. These are usually users on T1 or T3 connections, though there are more and more DSL and Cable users due to the popularity of broadband. These files are being traded thru IRC, FTP and newsgroups.
BitTorrent makes it possible for someone on a home broadband connection (DSL/Cablemodem) to act as a distributer. Only the first few uploads might be 100% done by their connection -- the rest are file-swarmed as partial file pieces and reassembled on arrival. The more popular the file, the LESS the distributer has to send to each person as lots of people would get 1 piece of the file from the distributer then quickly send it to each other.

[Jibbler]

That&#39;s correct. Emule works on the same principle of distribution.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Jibby has my vote as being about dead on...

I operate in pretty much the same way. I allow for 3 slots on my uploads, and 3 only. As i can send at 15kB/s... so thats at least 5k per person in theory... so that means, a 56ker can max out their connection, recieving from me... however... if a 56ker isnt as considerate as I am, to allow such nice speeds to them, considering my shitty uploads, why would I allow them to download at 1k/s or something, when they could be focusing on just the one file im sending to them? see what Im saying? Not that I make a habbit out of cutting peeps, rarely do i... but they want good speeds from me... and i want to send to them with good speeds too...

But I, like jibby, am more of a distributor then anything... I dont rip, as the professional groups are years ahead of me on that scene, and i get most of my stuff, from higher up the chain, ie irc, etc... ... but I do distribute to networks, fastrack, bittorrent, the mule, etc... direct connect... i try to help share this stuff asap... so at times, ya, I may share just may latest few movies, and if I am on my pc, I may cut slow 56kers off, who are at 1 or 2k... so someone can get better rates, and get the files faster...

but i spend the wee hours, hunting, and searching for you people, for files on irc, and newsgroups, just so you can have the latest releases. Not expecting anything in return, just good conversation here, and knowing that if more people do like we do, then the odds of me finding what i want become easier... thats what p2p needs right now, its more of the middle men... the top end, is good... the bottom end, too big... not enough distributors/pipelines to the end users, to spread this stuff as fast as the demand wants it. :(

but most of the time my klite is on, is at night, when im asleep, then its just a free for all.

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@25 April 2003 - 20:11
thats what p2p needs right now, its more of the middle men... the top end, is good... the bottom end, too big... not enough distributors/pipelines to the end users, to spread this stuff as fast as the demand wants it. :(

Well said Schmiggy. With all the crackdowns in the industry, getting Advance copies and screeners is getting more difficult. Think you&#39;ll be in trouble if you get caught sharing a file? Imagine the trouble you&#39;d be in if you got caught smuggling Advance copy CDs out of the production warehouse? Think you&#39;d keep your job at the theater if they found out you were packing a camcorder in that backpack of yours? Huge risks are being taken to bring these files to you. We need less leechers, and more distributors. :huh:

[RealitY]

I agree, I distribute as well, and there are deffinitly not enough of us, considering the apperent demand as I see ul slots fill quickly when I carry these files.
In addition I concede the point now as stated by Sw, if your a 56ker ul 10 files (5kb/s divided by 10 = 0.5) you are trashing everones ul slots including other 56kers that have maybe only one. There is in a sence a limited amount of ul slots to be taken. So point taken, get the f**k out and use common sense, there is a happy middle. Truthfully,even I have whacked a couple of snails from time to time.
Maybe you wise folks could develop a tool that if it sees an ul below a given speed (preferably user selectable) it gets whacked&#33;&#33; I am almost positive this can be done. Wheres Paul.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

ya, i think something like that would be handy, not that im anti 56ker, but just in the situation where I am sharing those newly released files, etc... knowing that the kazaa leech thingy, can shut people down for not sharing, maybe something like that can be made for rates???

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@26 April 2003 - 02:31
ya, i think something like that would be handy, not that im anti 56ker, but just in the situation where I am sharing those newly released files, etc... knowing that the kazaa leech thingy, can shut people down for not sharing, maybe something like that can be made for rates???
This is a common problem. Trying to send out lots of files from a slow connection can be murder on the network. This is one reason why IRC is so popular. Say someone gets 85% of a file, then gets cut off. If this were kazaa, he would have to jump back in que, and wait for an open slot. On IRC, the community is very friendly. I&#39;ve seen people open up an extra send slot, just so that I can finish that last 15% of a file. People realize that complete sources help files to spread, not partial ones.

I&#39;ve seen people download 90% of a movie file from me, only to get disconnected. Sometimes, I&#39;ll never see this user again. So maybe they found another sources, but probably not, especially if its a rare file. Too bad a system isn&#39;t in place to "finish off" the file for this user. :rolleyes:

[Switeck]

Originally posted by Jibbler@26 April 2003 - 16:09
This is a common problem.&nbsp; ... Say someone gets 85% of a file, then gets cut off.&nbsp; If this were kazaa, he would have to jump back in que, and wait for an open slot. ... People realize that complete sources help files to spread, not partial ones.

I&#39;ve seen people download 90% of a movie file from me, only to get disconnected.&nbsp; Sometimes, I&#39;ll never see this user again.&nbsp; So maybe they found another sources, but probably not, especially if its a rare file.&nbsp; Too bad a system isn&#39;t in place to "finish off" the file for this user. :rolleyes:
BearShare, Shareaza, Limewire, and Gnucleus and many other Gnutella programs make serious attempts to finish file uploads instead of only giving someone a large chunk and then forcing them to the bottom of the queue.

BitTorrent, Shareaza, and I believe Gnucleus goes a step further by SHARING unfinished downloads (and verifying even THEIR integrity) so file swarming can occur even if nobody has the completed file... just so long as there exists at least 1 &#39;virtual copy&#39; of the completed file distributed among all those connected.

Face it, in this regard, even the latest Kazaa Lite++ is hopelessly outdated.

BitTorrent is a special case program that is ONLY useful for getting specific files to lots of people who use a web link to that 1 file -- while trying to minimize the amount of bandwidth the &#39;server&#39; needs. It&#39;s best for larger files like tv shows (which just came out maybe a day ago...) or movies -- where normal p2p programs are hopelessly inept due to file disconnections and long download times.

On the other hand, Shareaza and Gnucleus on the Gnutella network and Shareaza&#39;s special network for Shareaza are true p2p file sharing programs much like Kazaa. However their numbers are still small and network connectivity is hampered by EXTREMELY hostile attacks by RIAA/MPAA-sponsored companies and spammers. They&#39;re making incredible inroads in tracking, mitigating, and preventing these attacks and the network connectivity is rising. Plus, having somewhere between 100,000 and about 1 million users on the network isn&#39;t to be sneered at just because Kazaa&#39;s is larger. With better connectivity and partial file-sharing ability, average download speeds will be possibly a magnitude faster (10x faster) than on fasttrack.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

I agree. Good summary on the networks there. I like emule/donkey, but it seems so slow. but its ability to check files, and multisource so well is a plus. bittorrent really seems to be a great up and commer. Great speeds so far, and very good network code. Only problem with it i see so far, is keeping older files around, as its mainly geared for newer ones, and a really great, shareactore, fastrackverifieds/klite forums, key site to get torrents from. supernova is ok, but not the end all to be all yet.

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@27 April 2003 - 03:36
Only problem with it i see so far, is keeping older files around, as its mainly geared for newer ones, and a really great, shareactore, fastrackverifieds/klite forums, key site to get torrents from. supernova is ok, but not the end all to be all yet.
Very true. However IRC has taken a big step with the recent addition of spiders (IRCspy, myDownloader.com, packetnews.com) These spiders are giant indexes for IRC. Back in the days, everything was Fserves (small individual fileservers) and you never knew what channel/server had what. I used to spend days looking for stuff, then more time looking for available servers. Not anymore. ;)

Clearly the direction in the p2p scene is incorporating Web Content with Filesharing Content. Sharereactor helps feed the emule community. This forum and others like it help the Kazaa community.

And of course, FC helps the Orange CD forum. :rolleyes: