boycotts of Danish goods in middle East!

[Snee]

Not sure zed wasn't being sarcastic, he's an artist after all, and should know something about how certain, rather good artists provoke society in all kinds of ways, and how wrong it would be if we started censoring everything everybody didn't agree with.

I think he knows all about the importance of free speech, anyhow.

Like I've stated before, I'm fairly certain the images weren't so much intended to depict the late and great mohammed as the artist saw him, but rather how the artist saw the mohammed murderers and terrorists say they follow.

And again, I think zed knows something about how subjective the interpretation of an artwork can be, and how far from the artist's intention the interpretation can fall, and how that needn't be anything that the artist should be blamed for.

As for the paper, they've claimed they published those pictures to determine whether muslim extremists had any power of the danish media.

[j2k4]

Not sure zed wasn't being sarcastic, he's an artist after all, and should know something about how certain, rather good artists provoke society in all kinds of ways, and how wrong it would be if we started censoring everything everybody didn't agree with.

I think he knows all about the importance of free speech, anyhow.

Like I've stated before, I'm fairly certain the images weren't so much intended to depict the late and great mohammed as the artist saw him, but rather how the artist saw the mohammed murderers and terrorists say they follow.

And again, I think zed knows something about how subjective the interpretation of an artwork can be, and how far from the artist's intention the interpretation can fall, and how that needn't be anything that the artist should be blamed for.

As for the paper, they've claimed they published those pictures to determine whether muslim extremists had any power of the danish media.

Zed, the artist, taking the measure of another's intent?

Sure, why not. :D

Interesting point as to the intended target; how to communicate to a "lay" Muslim the cartoons were intended to offend/embarrass only the terrorist readership?

All other intent aside, of course...;)

[Biggles]

Those with strong views about anything can get a tad emotional and irrational.

I recall Beatles records getting burned in the States when John Lennon made his "bigger than Jesus" comment. Hindu fundamentalists (surely a contradiction of terms :blink: ) are burning Valentine cards in India as they are viewed as a corrupting influence on society.

The perceived problem with Islam is that almost any protest seems to spill over into mindless violence. No one has died in the Valentine protests or during the Beatle record burnings. Over a dozen Muslims have died in riots over cartoons they have never seen. This passion is incomprehensible to West and not a little disturbing. If they will kill each other in protesting over mild cartoons shown in small country far away that is not of their religion what would they do if allowed a free hand?

I am not convinced any more of an apology than has already been given is due. The problem is not ours, any more than Valentine cards are our problem or the Beatles were our problem. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder so is offence and there are none so easily offended as those that want to be.

I believe I am a tolerant person but that tolerance does not extend to those that use their emotional reactions to demand that others toe their line. It is tantamount to a tantrum and should be ignored like a tantrum. I am sorry if this seems harsh.

[j2k4]

If they will kill each other in protesting over mild cartoons shown in small country far away that is not of their religion what would they do if allowed a free hand?

THIS IS EXACTLY THE SALIENT POINT AND THE OVERWHELMING CONCERN OF EVERYONE (EVERYONE!!!) IN THE WEST.

I believe I am a tolerant person but that tolerance does not extend to those that use their emotional reactions to demand that others toe their line. It is tantamount to a tantrum and should be ignored like a tantrum. I am sorry if this seems harsh.

Quit with "sorry".

It is terse and appropriate (aside from that last, which is just wishy-washy pish and tish :P ).

[JPaul]

Those with strong views about anything can get a tad emotional and irrational.

I recall Beatles records getting burned in the States when John Lennon made his "bigger than Jesus" comment. Hindu fundamentalists (surely a contradiction of terms :blink: ) are burning Valentine cards in India as they are viewed as a corrupting influence on society.

The perceived problem with Islam is that almost any protest seems to spill over into mindless violence. No one has died in the Valentine protests or during the Beatle record burnings. Over a dozen Muslims have died in riots over cartoons they have never seen. This passion is incomprehensible to West and not a little disturbing. If they will kill each other in protesting over mild cartoons shown in small country far away that is not of their religion what would they do if allowed a free hand?

I am not convinced any more of an apology than has already been given is due. The problem is not ours, any more than Valentine cards are our problem or the Beatles were our problem. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder so is offence and there are none so easily offended as those that want to be.

I believe I am a tolerant person but that tolerance does not extend to those that use their emotional reactions to demand that others toe their line. It is tantamount to a tantrum and should be ignored like a tantrum. I am sorry if this seems harsh.


What he said.

I would like to add, as stated earlier, that much which goes on in foreign countries seems wrong to me. I rarely receive the apology I so obviously deserve.

[JPaul]

It is terse and appropriate (aside from that last, which is just wishy-washy pish and tish :P ).


Pish posh, or tish tosh. Please don't mix your alliterate nonsenses.

[j2k4]

It is terse and appropriate (aside from that last, which is just wishy-washy pish and tish :P ).


Pish posh, or tish tosh. Please don't mix your alliterate nonsenses.

Good enough for the Prince, good enough for me...:P

[maebach]

is this the longest theread in the drawing room ever?

[JPaul]

Pish posh, or tish tosh. Please don't mix your alliterate nonsenses.

Good enough for the Prince, good enough for me...:P
:whoosh:

Which Prince

[j2k4]

Good enough for the Prince, good enough for me...:P
:whoosh:

Which Prince

Why, the Hugh Laurie version.

Is there another? :lol:

maebach-

Not even close...

[JPaul]

:whoosh:

Which Prince

Why, the Hugh Laurie version.

Is there another? :lol:

maebach-

Not even close...
Is it a Blackadder thing :blink:

[j2k4]

Why, the Hugh Laurie version.

Is there another? :lol:

maebach-

Not even close...
Is it a Blackadder thing :blink:

Yes...sorry. :)

[jetje]

Just had an interesting debate at work, short version it all came down on this, wich i believe is food for thought;

Freedom of speech is infinite, so you have the right to curse, swear, say blasphemy, insult whatever you want it is oké! freedom of speech you know...

Thing that seperates civilized people from non civilized is just the simple fact that some know where to stop using 'their rights' an some don't.

ooh and some people just have very long toes...
they get stepped on very easy
but that's just the islamic part of this world

freedom of speech you know :)

[JPaul]

Freedom of speech is infinite, so you have the right to curse, swear, say blasphemy, insult whatever you want it is oké! freedom of speech you know...

Not in the UK it isn't, freedom of speech has it's limits and to go beyond those is a criminal offence.

[Busyman]

Just had an interesting debate at work, short version it all came down on this, wich i believe is food for thought;

Freedom of speech is infinite, so you have the right to curse, swear, say blasphemy, insult whatever you want it is oké! freedom of speech you know...

Thing that seperates civilized people from non civilized is just the simple fact that some know where to stop using 'their rights' an some don't.

ooh and some people just have very long toes...
they get stepped on very easy
but that's just the islamic part of this world

freedom of speech you know :)
Over here, one cannot incite a riot, solicite prostitution, solicite murder for hire, talk of harming the President or threaten any person with bodily harm, yell "BOMB" on an airplane, etc.

Freedom of speech is hardly infinite.

Critism or caricature of a person from a book is freedom of speech but even then there are limits.

Say a person went into Muslim neighborhood with a big sign that depicted Muhammed with the bomb in his turban. That person would be trying to incite those in the neighborhood.

[jetje]

Freedom of speech is infinite, so you have the right to curse, swear, say blasphemy, insult whatever you want it is oké! freedom of speech you know...

Not in the UK it isn't, freedom of speech has it's limits and to go beyond those is a criminal offence.

Then you don't have freedom of speech over there! :( As i said it's infinite, soon as someone forbids you to speak about subject (how logical that may seem) it's not freedom of speech anymore ;) This is exactly why we cannot tolerate that some Ayathollahs tells us (western world) what we are allowed to say. It's the begin of the end. There is no such thing as partial freedom of speech.



Over here, one cannot incite a riot, solicite prostitution, solicite murder for hire, talk of harming the President or threaten any person with bodily harm, yell "BOMB" on an airplane, etc.

Freedom of speech is hardly infinite.

Critism or caricature of a person from a book is freedom of speech but even then there are limits.

Say a person went into Muslim neighborhood with a big sign that depicted Muhammed with the bomb in his turban. That person would be trying to incite those in the neighborhood.

How logical your reasoning sounds, it's not true. Freedom of speech is infinite. It's the people who should decide what to say or what not to say. Good healthy thinking should be your own personal barier. The neighborhood in your case now is the world (thanks to globalization). Why would anyone be incited because of a sign... long toes, i say..
Over here in the Netherlands there are even debates that freedom of speech gives you the right to insult. Wich in my believes is true.
Not that you need to do that all the time, this is where the common sense needs to step forward. But yes the right to do it...

edit:
Over here, one cannot incite a riot, solicite prostitution, solicite murder for hire, talk of harming the President or threaten any person with bodily harm, yell "BOMB" on an airplane, etc. This is true censorship and a really big limitation of your own free choice. Well i heared about the Patriot act... That's only one step ahead from total control. All possible thanks to fear that governements like to spread around. Fear for terrorism, fear for other religions, fear for .. well the unknown.

I don't understand the USA way of freedoms anyways. Why does a tv station broadcasts a talk show where they beep out almost half of the spoken words (Jerry Springer) Why censor that? Same goes for lyrics at the Music channels (MTV and stuff like that) Don't show it then or leave the original in tact.
No moral talk will help, people that think it's wrong should not watch it or listen to it. Well that brings us back to the cartoons..... ;)

[Busyman]

Over here, one cannot incite a riot, solicite prostitution, solicite murder for hire, talk of harming the President or threaten any person with bodily harm, yell "BOMB" on an airplane, etc.

Freedom of speech is hardly infinite.

Critism or caricature of a person from a book is freedom of speech but even then there are limits.

Say a person went into Muslim neighborhood with a big sign that depicted Muhammed with the bomb in his turban. That person would be trying to incite those in the neighborhood.

How logical your reasoning sounds, it's not true. Freedom of speech is infinite. It's the people who should decide what to say or what not to say. Good healthy thinking should be your own personal barier. The neighborhood in your case now is the world (thanks to globalization). Why would anyone be incited because of a sign... long toes, i say..
Over here in the Netherlands there are even debates that freedom of speech gives you the right to insult. Wich in my believes is true.
Not that you need to do that all the time, this is where the common sense needs to step forward. But yes the right to do it...
The neighborhood is not the world and what do you mean, "it's not true"?

You wanna get technical, freedom of speech is infinite. You can say what you want and some of what you say will be illegal.

I never said you are not able to insult.

edit:
Over here, one cannot incite a riot, solicite prostitution, solicite murder for hire, talk of harming the President or threaten any person with bodily harm, yell "BOMB" on an airplane, etc. This is true censorship and a really big limitation of your own free choice. Well i heared about the Patriot act... That's only one step ahead from total control. All possible thanks to fear that governements like to spread around. Fear for terrorism, fear for other religions, fear for .. well the unknown.

I don't understand the USA way of freedoms anyways. Why does a tv station broadcasts a talk show where they beep out almost half of the spoken words (Jerry Springer) Why censor that? Same goes for lyrics at the Music channels (MTV and stuff like that) Don't show it then or leave the original in tact.
No moral talk will help, people that think it's wrong should not watch it or listen to it. Well that brings us back to the cartoons..... ;)
Many believe children shouldn't be exposed to that. If you think that's ok, good for your country.

HTH did the Patriot Act come into this?:blink:

[JPaul]

I don't think freedom of speech should be absolute. People cannot be allowed to say anything they want.

Well to be accurate they can say anything they want, however the rest of society is free to say "that is unacceptable" and do something about it. For example someone addressing a mob and inciting race hate is wrong. Therefore we need laws to stop it.

Again, they can do it, but we can stop them. It's like any other crime. Yes people can commit them but then something can be done about it.

[j2k4]

you don't have freedom of speech over there! :( As i said it's infinite, soon as someone forbids you to speak about subject (how logical that may seem) it's not freedom of speech anymore ;) This is exactly why we cannot tolerate that some Ayathollahs tells us (western world) what we are allowed to say. It's the begin of the end. There is no such thing as partial freedom of speech.

I see your logic, JJ.

Tell me:

Do you think Theo Van Gogh was a victim of his own freedom of speech or someone else's? :huh:

[Biggles]

you don't have freedom of speech over there! :( As i said it's infinite, soon as someone forbids you to speak about subject (how logical that may seem) it's not freedom of speech anymore ;) This is exactly why we cannot tolerate that some Ayathollahs tells us (western world) what we are allowed to say. It's the begin of the end. There is no such thing as partial freedom of speech.

I see your logic, JJ.

Tell me:

Do you think Theo Van Gogh was a victim of his own freedom of speech or someone else's? :huh:

Therein lies the problem. The twonk who killed him had nothing to say.

[j2k4]

I see your logic, JJ.

Tell me:

Do you think Theo Van Gogh was a victim of his own freedom of speech or someone else's? :huh:

Therein lies the problem. The twonk who killed him had nothing to say.

Given that non-oral speech counts, I'll include the note that was speared to his torso as he lay dying.

As to the physical violence, which (absurdly), by JJ's example could arguably be considered legal, how should we view the actions of a mute with no arms who kicks someone to death over a perceived slight?

To deny him/her this...expression would seem to be discriminatory, no?

[Biggles]

I was being harsh without apology as instructed :) The twonk in question could have talked all night and still said nothing as far as I am concerned. His position was indefensible.

Apart from the occasional enraged armless mute who has not mastered typing with his toes I am not sure "free speech" really extends to beating someone to death.

Whatever happened to "sticks and stones" :blink:

Of course untruths about an individual can harm them in that it could ruin them professionally. However, the slander and libel laws are there to ensure that free speech is also accurate speech. Are the cartoons slanderous - there might be good reason for some to view Islam as a vehicle for carrying bombs. When politics and religion intertwine then all is fair game and religion cannot hide behind the skirts of sanctity.

I would agree with JP in that, with ever tightening laws, free speech appears to be an increasingly endangered commodity.

However, a democracy must have the means with which to question. If areas are allowed to be fenced off then there will be opportunities for those in power to shield their actions from criticism. This is a slippy slope that many have skated down before.

[j2k4]

I was being harsh without apology as instructed :) The twonk in question could have talked all night and still said nothing as far as I am concerned. His position was indefensible.

Apart from the occasional enraged armless mute who has not mastered typing with his toes I am not sure "free speech" really extends to beating someone to death.

Whatever happened to "sticks and stones" :blink:

Of course untruths about an individual can harm them in that it could ruin them professionally. However, the slander and libel laws are there to ensure that free speech is also accurate speech. Are the cartoons slanderous - there might be good reason for some to view Islam as a vehicle for carrying bombs. When politics and religion intertwine then all is fair game and religion cannot hide behind the skirts of sanctity.

I would agree with JP in that, with ever tightening laws, free speech appears to be an increasingly endangered commodity.

However, a democracy must have the means with which to question. If areas are allowed to be fenced off then there will be opportunities for those in power to shield their actions from criticism. This is a slippy slope that many have skated down before.


I tumbled to your H4R5Hness, but couldn't pay heed and also use my mute/armless thingie. :)

I agree with you and JP; I am occasionally bothered, however, by the sentiment expressed by those intransigents who decry incidents such as when Whoopi Goldberg's political commentaries cost her beaucoup endorsment contracts...as if corporate entities are, by virtue of their non-personhood, "speechless". ;)

[Biggles]

I am not sure if Whoopi really needs the dough. :)

Advertising budgets are used to the entities best interest. If a burger joint discovers their promotion is fronted by a vegetarian then they might want to reconsider...or start selling vege-burgers

Several companies reconsidered Kate Moss apres her coke incident. Hindsight suggests they made a mistake as she appears to have both public sympathy and has bounced back but that was the call they made at the time.

If the owners of the entity are unhappy with a promotion then they are free to end it - it is their money after all. One difficulty is that the CEO is rarely the owner, the shareholders are and the CEO should not grind his political axe with their money.

[j2k4]

If the owners of the entity are unhappy with a promotion then they are free to end it - it is their money after all. One difficulty is that the CEO is rarely the owner, the shareholders are and the CEO should not grind his political axe with their money.

True, but as they are most directly responsible for the corporate image, he/she is bound to act in what they see as the shareholders' best monetary interest, and to do it quickly.

I can't remember the circumstances, but I have a dim recollection of a CEO with his finger in the wind, trying to judge public reaction while his company withered.

I would think the default would be removal of the celeb/what-have-you in question, as a negative image will lose you more consumers more quickly than any transitory reaction over whether said person should or should not have been kept...there are several celebrities to choose from, after all. :P

[Barbarossa]

From the ridiculous to the, umm, ridiculous.


TEHRAN (Reuters) - Not content with pelting European embassies with petrol bombs to protest against cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad, Iranians have decided to rename the "Danish pastries" relished by this nation of cake lovers.

From now on, the sweet, flaky pastries which dominate the shelves in
Iran's cake shops will be known as "Roses of the Prophet Mohammad," the official IRNA news agency reported as pressure on Denmark over the cartoons took on a new dimension.

"No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected Prophet," Hassan Nasserzadeh, a cake-shop owner in central Tehran, told Reuters.

The pastries are baked every day and are not imported or subject to any boycott of Danish goods imposed over the cartoons.

The Iranian move had echoes of the verbal food fight set off by restaurants in the U.S. House of Representatives which renamed "French fries" and "French toast" as "Freedom fries" and "Freedom toast" after France refused to back the U.S.-led invasion of
Iraq in 2003.

Points:

1. Danish Pastries = "Roses of the Prophet Mohammad,"

2. "No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected Prophet,"

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/938/dabsrod5ll.gif

[Afronaut]

"No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected Prophet,"

:1eye:

[jetje]

you don't have freedom of speech over there! :( As i said it's infinite, soon as someone forbids you to speak about subject (how logical that may seem) it's not freedom of speech anymore ;) This is exactly why we cannot tolerate that some Ayathollahs tells us (western world) what we are allowed to say. It's the begin of the end. There is no such thing as partial freedom of speech.

I see your logic, JJ.

Tell me:

Do you think Theo Van Gogh was a victim of his own freedom of speech or someone else's? :huh:

What do you think yourself j2k4?? ;)

The power of words lies in the fact that as long as your able to use words, you won't be needing any fysicall violence. This is one of the reasons that it's so important to have freedom of speech. Dictatorships of any kind only excist on not having freedom of speech. Wars/fights/conflicts starts when dialogue stops.

[j2k4]

I see your logic, JJ.

Tell me:

Do you think Theo Van Gogh was a victim of his own freedom of speech or someone else's? :huh:

What do you think yourself j2k4?? ;)

The power of words lies in the fact that as long as your able to use words, you won't be needing any fysicall violence. This is one of the reasons that it's so important to have freedom of speech. Dictatorships of any kind only excist on not having freedom of speech. Wars/fights/conflicts starts when dialogue stops.

I'd say the unlawful reaction to Theo's correct exercise of his speech rights cost him his life.

Your answer, please?

Was Theo victimized by conflict?

Remember, there was a note...

[Biggles]

From the ridiculous to the, umm, ridiculous.


TEHRAN (Reuters) - Not content with pelting European embassies with petrol bombs to protest against cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad, Iranians have decided to rename the "Danish pastries" relished by this nation of cake lovers.

From now on, the sweet, flaky pastries which dominate the shelves in
Iran's cake shops will be known as "Roses of the Prophet Mohammad," the official IRNA news agency reported as pressure on Denmark over the cartoons took on a new dimension.

"No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected Prophet," Hassan Nasserzadeh, a cake-shop owner in central Tehran, told Reuters.

The pastries are baked every day and are not imported or subject to any boycott of Danish goods imposed over the cartoons.

The Iranian move had echoes of the verbal food fight set off by restaurants in the U.S. House of Representatives which renamed "French fries" and "French toast" as "Freedom fries" and "Freedom toast" after France refused to back the U.S.-led invasion of
Iraq in 2003.

Points:

1. Danish Pastries = "Roses of the Prophet Mohammad,"

2. "No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected Prophet,"

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/938/dabsrod5ll.gif


Changing the name of food is just silly :whistling

[JPaul]

Like "eggplant", what kind of tit would do that.

[Biggles]

Like "eggplant", what kind of tit would do that.

One that has never seen an egg I suspect :blink:

[jetje]

What do you think yourself j2k4?? ;)

The power of words lies in the fact that as long as your able to use words, you won't be needing any fysicall violence. This is one of the reasons that it's so important to have freedom of speech. Dictatorships of any kind only excist on not having freedom of speech. Wars/fights/conflicts starts when dialogue stops.

I'd say the unlawful reaction to Theo's correct exercise of his speech rights cost him his life.

Your answer, please?

Was Theo victimized by conflict?

Remember, there was a note...

Theo is a marter, he died because he defended the freedom of speech and that did cost him his life.

You refer to 'there was a letter' as if that was his way to express freedom of speech. Wich is right. The guy went wrong by taking away Theo his right of freedom of speech by killing him.

The last part i stated what i believe. Dialogue stopped, violence took it's place. Most of the time to stop some one saying what you don't like to hear.

[j2k4]

The guy went wrong by taking away Theo his right of freedom of speech by killing him.

The last part i stated what i believe. Dialogue stopped, violence took it's place. Most of the time to stop some one saying what you don't like to hear.

Which is (and always has been) my point.

If it is true the vast majority of Muslims do not believe Islam sanctions such violence, where are they hiding?

"Official" Islam (CAIR, et. al.) are mysteriously silent...

[Skillian]

How are they hiding? I regularly hear ordinary Muslims condemning terrorist tactics on the news.

CAIR have this (http://www.cair-net.org/html/911statements.html) linked to on their front page.

The voices may not be as loud as you would like (though some would argue that has a lot to do with lack of media attention), but to call them hiding or silent is unfair.

[hobbes]

The publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad continued to send shock waves around the world Friday as protesters set fire to the Italian consulate in Benghazi, Libya, and clashed with police hours after an Islamic cleric in Pakistan offered a $1 million reward for killing one of the cartoonists

If I were an ordinary Muslim, I would like to see a SINGLE demonstration espousing the message of peace, which is the literal translation of the word "Islam".

If you believe that you are bound for eternal paradise because of your faith in Islam, shouldn't that be enough?

I am not Christian, but they are taught to love their enemies. When someone speaks against God, they feel sorrow that that person has wandered from the path of salvation.

They don't want to kill him, but rather to love him and help to return him to God.

How many were killed in America because of the "artistic" exhibit of Christ in urine and the Virgin Mary depicted with elephant shit?

If someone defames your prophet through a cartoon, shouldn't your response be, like the Christian one, sadness for a person who has lost touch with God.

You should want to counsel him, to instruct him, to heal him, NOT behead him.

Anger, to me, reflects fear that any alternative perspective will undermine the faith of a programmed society and weaken the control a fundamentalist government has over it's citizens.

This is not about God, but about humans and control.

Ordinary Muslims should be screaming pity and forgiveness. I see none of this.

As I have said before, when words (Islam=peace) are not followed by action, they are just meaningless symbols on a piece of paper.

Oh, and the Danish government has zero responsibility to offer an apology because they are a tolerant nation that allows freedom of speech and the press.

[Skillian]

I am not Christian, but they are taught to love their enemies. When someone speaks against God, they feel sorrow that that person has wandered from the path of salvation.

They don't want to kill him, but rather to love him and help to return him to God.

Tell that to this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176) woman :O

Nah, I get what you're saying, but I have a couple of Muslim friends and if you told them they should be "screaming pity and forgiveness" they'd tell you to piss off. That may not please you but not every Muslim feels responsible for what happened in New York, London Madrid etc.

[Cheese]

I am not Christian, but they are taught to love their enemies. When someone speaks against God, they feel sorrow that that person has wandered from the path of salvation.

They don't want to kill him, but rather to love him and help to return him to God.
Tell that to this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176) woman :O



What a splendidly awful woman. I do believe I would swerve to hit her (provided I was driving a vehicle capable of mowing down her massive bulk).

[DanB]

I am not Christian, but they are taught to love their enemies. When someone speaks against God, they feel sorrow that that person has wandered from the path of salvation.

They don't want to kill him, but rather to love him and help to return him to God.

Tell that to this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176) woman :O


what a freak :lol:

[JPaul]

The publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad continued to send shock waves around the world Friday as protesters set fire to the Italian consulate in Benghazi, Libya, and clashed with police hours after an Islamic cleric in Pakistan offered a $1 million reward for killing one of the cartoonists

If I were an ordinary Muslim, I would like to see a SINGLE demonstration espousing the message of peace, which is the literal translation of the word "Islam".

If you believe that you are bound for eternal paradise because of your faith in Islam, shouldn't that be enough?

I am not Christian, but they are taught to love their enemies. When someone speaks against God, they feel sorrow that that person has wandered from the path of salvation.

They don't want to kill him, but rather to love him and help to return him to God.

How many were killed in America because of the "artistic" exhibit of Christ in urine and the Virgin Mary depicted with elephant shit?

If someone defames your prophet through a cartoon, shouldn't your response be, like the Christian one, sadness for a person who has lost touch with God.

You should want to counsel him, to instruct him, to heal him, NOT behead him.

Anger, to me, reflects fear that any alternative perspective will undermine the faith of a programmed society and weaken the control a fundamentalist government has over it's citizens.

This is not about God, but about humans and control.

Ordinary Muslims should be screaming pity and forgiveness. I see none of this.

As I have said before, when words (Islam=peace) are not followed by action, they are just meaningless symbols on a piece of paper.

Oh, and the Danish government has zero responsibility to offer an apology because they are a tolerant nation that allows freedom of speech and the press.


Good points, well made.

There was a peaceful protest in London. Which expressed it's dislike of the cartoons, but also said that the violent reaction was totally wrong.

[JPaul]

Tell that to this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176) woman :O



What a splendidly awful woman.
I like that sentence very muchly.

Congratulations.

[hobbes]

There was a peaceful protest in London. Which expressed it's dislike of the cartoons, but also said that the violent reaction was totally wrong.

Good for them. It is a shame that this side of the story gets underplayed.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to be angry with the cartoons, and people should have the right to express this anger via peaceful protest. These protests are good things that sort of educate citizens about sensitivities that they might not otherwise have been aware of.

[j2k4]

I guess what I am objecting to most is the lack of utter disavowal of these miscreants and their actions by their religious brethren.

The most your average Muslim seems compelled to say is he/she doesn't "agree" with the violence or those who perpetrate it.

Historically such sociological pustules are shunned and isolated unto immateriality and eventual non-existence.

[Biggles]

The reaction to the cartoons is incomprehensible to the average citizen of the West.

The peaceful demonstration today was far more restrained and sensible but it is difficult to determine what they hope to achieve. I don't think people in the West ever really thought that this would be an issue on this scale. Those that dislike Muslims (or least the radical brand that gets most air-time) are going to be mass producing Prophet cartoons from here in.

At the end of the day, I have no problem treating other religions with respect but rather than doing a Foamy the Squirrel about Danish cartoonists would they not do better to search their own souls regarding why Islam is held in such disregard? There is a feeling, perhaps fuelled by the media, that Bin Laden and chums are actually held in some esteem and that many (not all) Muslims cheerlead from the sidelines when an attrocity is carried out.

I think it will be some time before the scars on both sides heal over this and that Islam will be regarded with suspicion in the West for a long time.

I have seen the scary woman clip before - it is one of SGGs favourites. A truly strange woman. I felt sorry for the kids who looked genuinely disturbed by their mother's rant. Religion/Superstition - is it all one?

[JPaul]

Religion/Superstition - is it all one?
No, no it isn't.

[Biggles]

Religion/Superstition - is it all one?
No, no it isn't.

:lol:

No it isn't but some appear to be unaware of this.

[JPaul]

No, no it isn't.

:lol:

No it isn't but some appear to be unaware of this.
It just depends what one believes in I suppose. However the thing which really confuses me is how different groups of the same religion can have such differing views on it's teaching.

One group seems to say it's OK, in fact obligatory, to kill those who insult their Prophet. Another preaches that non-violent protest is the way to go. So people who are confused by this tend to see the side which wants to kill them as being representative. That's human nature I s'pose.

[Snee]

Tell that to this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176) woman :O



What a splendidly awful woman. I do believe I would swerve to hit her (provided I was driving a vehicle capable of mowing down her massive bulk).
That is an awesome, awesome clip.

It got even better 'cos I'd played around with my sound settings before I saw that, thus giving the sound of it a more metallic, ominous feel.

At first I forgot I'd done that, so I reckoned that was intentional.

Midway-through I was laughing.




She says she'll pray for them tho', doesn't she? :unsure:

[Santa]

has anyone here studied islam (outside of media)?

[vidcc]

Tell that to this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176) woman :O



All Christians are like that, why single her out :unsure: ;)

[JPaul]

Tell that to this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176) woman :O



All Christians are like that, why single her out :unsure: ;)
No, no they aren't

[Biggles]

has anyone here studied islam (outside of media)?

Which version? Although the media is not blameless I don't think it was a figment of my imagination that it was religion that motivated the WTC attack, the Madrid bombings and the London subway bombings - not to mention Bali, Beslan and Moscow, the beheading of Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia and numerous other attacks.

There seems to be a branch, at least, of Islam that is big on death. That is not to say that other religions have not had their death is healthy for you moments.

I don't like having Jehovah's Witnesses knocking at my door, mad ladies in the street trying to get me to say Guranga (sp?) or Mullahs saying death to those who disagree with us. It all seems a little too forced. It is as if it won't be true unless everybody thinks like they do.

I am sure there are Islamic philosphers with insights into the human condition who have much to offer. Those that merely want to stamp converted on all they see offer nothing that we haven't already got.

A line from a Gore Vidal book that I liked very much was a young Zarathustrian priest telling Buddha that he represented the one true God. Buddha replied laughing "but my dear boy we have one of those too ... come to think of it, several actually.

[maebach]

Tell that to this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176) woman :O

.

she was on trading spouses last week :O :O

[Snee]

has anyone here studied islam (outside of media)?
Not from the inside, zed. But I have read about it, religion is a subject in our schools, see. I also had a bunch of muslim classmates, for three years. In fact, in that class they outnumbered the christians, and us others. They taught me some arabic, and the muslim declaration of faith, for fun, like. I s'pose I've repeated it enough times in public, for me to be a muslim, if they thought I'd been sincere.

From what I remember it's a benign religion in theory. Teaches peace, love, and maybe tolerance. That Mohammed chap seemed an ok dude.


Something that has always stuck with me tho', was when we were doing some presentation of Islam, in class, and I started telling people about a possible historical explanation as to why Islam frowns upon alcohol.

One theory is that he, when in the army en route to Mekka, had a problem with people in the army getting drunk, and that the prohibition of alcohol was implemented because of this.

This is just a theory, and I wasn't making any value-statements of any kind about its validity, it was just an aside.

Only one girl, who was normally rather nice to me (I think she kinda' liked me) and otherwise just a normal teenager who'd never struck me as particularily religious, started talking, raising her voice, proclaiming loudly that it was the word of God, AND NOTHING ELSE. 'twas as if the very thought that there might be a more down to earth explanation for it was an insult, or even a threat, to her personally.

And I've seen the same thing happen one more time, in class at uni, when discussing the "divine command"-theory. As the lecturer noted that the theory becomes invalid if there's no God, and that the theory might still be invalid if there is a God, if what's right and what's wrong is just something He or She has ordained, rather than universal truths.

When he told us this, without saying whether he thought there was a God, this muslim bloke in class had to explain the nature of God to him, twice, very loudly. It was if just the possiblity of our lecturer not believing in God, or the contemplation of the reasons behind God's words, was an insult, or again even a threat.

I don't reckon this is Mohammed's fault, or a flaw in the framework for the religion in itself, 'cos he wanted you to think. I just think that it has been abused from the inside in some parts of the world, to create a tradition of unquestioning belief, maybe even fanaticism, by people less pure of intention.

[JPaul]

has anyone here studied islam (outside of media)?

Which version? Although the media is not blameless I don't think it was a figment of my imagination that it was religion that motivated the WTC attack, the Madrid bombings and the London subway bombings - not to mention Bali, Beslan and Moscow, the beheading of Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia and numerous other attacks.

There seems to be a branch, at least, of Islam that is big on death. That is not to say that other religions have not had their death is healthy for you moments.

I don't like having Jehovah's Witnesses knocking at my door, mad ladies in the street trying to get me to say Guranga (sp?) or Mullahs saying death to those who disagree with us. It all seems a little too forced. It is as if it won't be true unless everybody thinks like they do.

I am sure there are Islamic philosphers with insights into the human condition who have much to offer. Those that merely want to stamp converted on all they see offer nothing that we haven't already got.

A line from a Gore Vidal book that I liked very much was a young Zarathustrian priest telling Buddha that he represented the one true God. Buddha replied laughing "but my dear boy we have one of those too ... come to think of it, several actually.


Hoi, Witch. Don't dis the Zarathustrians, I like them .... and the Buddahians as it happens.

[BawA]

hi guys
i just want to bring this up for some of you whom belive in freedom of speech in europ.
why your freedom of speech stops at jews Holocaust by nazi's?
just today i saw that david Irving was sentence to 3 years for doubting in the holocaus, what kinda of freedom is that.
in Europ they can hert 1.8 billion muslims feelings but they cant doubt in jews holocaust, isnt that a racism?
italian spoke man says "Muslims" r welcome but they cant force thier culture on us(but they can do anything to us becuz we r migrated and minority population over there).
an italian minister wore a T-shirt with thoes cartoons on it on tv and asked Pope to declare a campaign against muslims(he got firied from goverment by PM).
just an update on the cartoon creator, SOAB is undergrounded(i guess Salman rushdie got a partner).

[Barbarossa]

hi guys
i just want to bring this up for some of you whom belive in freedom of speech in europ.
why your freedom of speech stops at jews Holocaust by nazi's?
just today i saw that david Irving was sentence to 3 years for doubting in the holocaus, what kinda of freedom is that.

I can't deny that you have a point there.

[Busyman]

hi guys
i just want to bring this up for some of you whom belive in freedom of speech in europ.
why your freedom of speech stops at jews Holocaust by nazi's?
just today i saw that david Irving was sentence to 3 years for doubting in the holocaus, what kinda of freedom is that.
in Europ they can hert 1.8 billion muslims feelings but they cant doubt in jews holocaust, isnt that a racism?
I'll tell you why....'cause the Austrians got together and agreed that a person can't deny or minimalize the 'caust.

So freedom of speech does stop at the Holocaust.

Fucked up, huh?

Unlike the sitcha ayshun in Denmark, they actually have a law....but you are familiar with that since it's probably a law in your country to quell freedom of speech regarding things like cartoons.

[Snee]

hi guys
i just want to bring this up for some of you whom belive in freedom of speech in europ.
why your freedom of speech stops at jews Holocaust by nazi's?
just today i saw that david Irving was sentence to 3 years for doubting in the holocaus, what kinda of freedom is that.
in Europ they can hert 1.8 billion muslims feelings but they cant doubt in jews holocaust, isnt that a racism?
italian spoke man says "Muslims" r welcome but they cant force thier culture on us(but they can do anything to us becuz we r migrated and minority population over there).
an italian minister wore a T-shirt with thoes cartoons on it on tv and asked Pope to declare a campaign against muslims(he got firied from goverment by PM).
just an update on the cartoon creator, SOAB is undergrounded(i guess Salman rushdie got a partner).
Europe isn't a country, it's a bunch of countries, all with their own different laws, you can't talk about europeans as if they are all the same.

Or do you reckon you, as a muslim, should be held accountable for what the Talibans have done in the name of Islam, or maybe that you, as an arab, should be held accountable for what other arabs have done, or maybe that you, as someone living in the middle east, should get a bad rep 'cos of how Iraq treated people, under Saddam?

If I have to hazard a guess, I'd say you know fuck all about how people who are specifically muslims are treated in our country. (They have the same rights as the rest of us, btw, by law).



As for the holocaust bloke, I dunno' if he'd end up in prison just for talking that way here. But I know it's not allowed to make statements intentionally intended to hurt a minority, be they jews, arabs or who tf cares.

Personally, I reckon someone who's daft enough to deny an event like that might need to be locked up for his own safety.


I think you need to realise that the world doesn't match your preconceptions, and, to tie in with what you started off saying, that no matter what the chaps who run the show right now where you live say, the rest of the world isn't out to get you.

[BawA]

Europe isn't a country, it's a bunch of countries, all with their own different laws, you can't talk about Europeans as if they are all the same.
Basically they follow not so different constitution, thats why its called "union" .

do you reckon you, as a Muslim, should be held accountable for what the Taliban’s have done in the name of Islam
what the feck Taliban did, one or two clips that u saw of killing people was not more then a sentence by "SHARIAA", its done in all Islamic country even in Saudi Arabia. Its matter of East and West Thingy, the way works here and over there. one of clips that u may saw was shooting a women well that’s a couple cheating issue, wife and husband cheatings issues are a normal issue for you cuz its used regularly and no law prohibits it but in Shariaa we have strict rule over that.

Personally, I reckon someone who's daft enough to deny an event like that might need to be locked up for his own safety.
Did u see the holocaust by ur self?, how can u be so sure? As you said that media doesn’t represent the actual events so don’t trust what Hollywood’s says.
personally I think its all BS, its all to drive out the Jews Out, and to show that they don’t hate them they brought up these craps, I say if u apartheid them why don’t keep them there instead of droving them out to Middle East(what Uk did).

But I know it's not allowed to make statements intentionally intended to hurt a minority, be they Jews, Arabs or who tf cares.
How the feck doubting in something is hurting others feeling, u name that "hurting the feelings" but those cartoons which is direct arrow pointed at us is freedom of speech?

I'll tell you why....'cause the Austrians got together and agreed that a person can't deny or minimalize the 'caust.

So freedom of speech does stop at the Holocaust.

Fucked up, huh?
its similar to US Creating Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), when they nuked Hiroshima in fear of being attacked the same way and being blamed they made NPT so they can drive away those blames and be on the peace track, now European made the holocaust rule to prevent the blames of them self’s and draw a good picture of them self by ignoring that they had hands in thoes holocaust's(which isnt existed in my opinion).

[Barbarossa]

Basically they follow not so different constitution, thats why its called "union" .

do you reckon you, as a Muslim, should be held accountable for what the Taliban’s have done in the name of Islam
what the feck Taliban did, one or two clips that u saw of killing people was not more then a sentence by "SHARIAA", its done in all Islamic country even in Saudi Arabia. Its matter of East and West Thingy, the way works here and over there. one of clips that u may saw was shooting a women well that’s a couple cheating issue, wife and husband cheatings issues are a normal issue for you cuz its used regularly and no law prohibits it but in Shariaa we have strict rule over that.

Personally, I reckon someone who's daft enough to deny an event like that might need to be locked up for his own safety.
Did u see the holocaust by ur self?, how can u be so sure? As you said that media doesn’t represent the actual events so don’t trust what Hollywood’s says.
personally I think its all BS, its all to drive out the Jews Out, and to show that they don’t hate them they brought up these craps, I say if u apartheid them why don’t keep them there instead of droving them out to Middle East(what Uk did).

But I know it's not allowed to make statements intentionally intended to hurt a minority, be they Jews, Arabs or who tf cares.
How the feck doubting in something is hurting others feeling, u name that "hurting the feelings" but those cartoons which is direct arrow pointed at us is freedom of speech?

I'll tell you why....'cause the Austrians got together and agreed that a person can't deny or minimalize the 'caust.

So freedom of speech does stop at the Holocaust.

Fucked up, huh?
its similar to US Creating Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), when they nuked Hiroshima in fear of being attacked the same way and being blamed they made NPT so they can drive away those blames and be on the peace track, now European made the holocaust rule to prevent the blames from them self’s and draw a good picture of them self.


Well, now you're just talking complete crap.

But I would defend your right to talk crap against anyone who would try and take that right away from you. :)

[Cheese]

Am I reading that mess right. Is Bawa denying the Holocaust?

[Barbarossa]

Am I reading that mess right. Is Bawa denying the Holocaust?

:idunno:

[Snee]

Basically they follow not so different constitution, thats why its called "union" .

:glag:

The EU, or European union is a trade union, and we don't have a common or similar constitution, what idiot told you that?

FFS, Bawa.

We all have our own, sometimes very different, separate laws.
We don't all speak the same language either, I hope you know that, at least


do you reckon you, as a Muslim, should be held accountable for what the Taliban’s have done in the name of Islam
what the feck Taliban did, one or two clips that u saw of killing people was not more then a sentence by "SHARIAA", its done in all Islamic country even in Saudi Arabia. Its matter of East and West Thingy, the way works here and over there. one of clips that u may saw was shooting a women well that’s a couple cheating issue, wife and husband cheatings issues are a normal issue for you cuz its used regularly and no law prohibits it but in Shariaa we have strict rule over that.
I saw Talibans blowing up buddhist statues, I saw Bin Laden and other Talibans claiming responsibility for planning terrorist attacks, I saw people being interviewed after the Talibans had been driven off, and they didn't seem very unhappy.


Personally, I reckon someone who's daft enough to deny an event like that might need to be locked up for his own safety.
Did u see the holocaust by ur self?, how can u be so sure? As you said that media doesn’t represent the actual events so don’t trust what Hollywood’s says.
I've seen Auswitch, I've seen where the showers were, and were the massgraves were situated. I've seen recordings of witness-statements from both germans, civilians and soldiers and non-jewish soldiers on the allied side. I've seen pictures from the camps, and heard the stories of survivors, I even saw one hold a speech, when I was very little. Saw the tattoo and all.

I daresay it would have been a logistically impossible operation, to make the holocaust as it were, up, and manage to fool everybody at the same time.



personally I think its all BS, its all to drive out the Jews Out, and to show that they don’t hate them they brought up these craps, I say if u apartheid them why don’t keep them there instead of droving them out to Middle East(what Uk did).
Personally, I think you are growing more unpleasant with every post you make.

Neither myself, nor any member of my family, nor my nation had anything to do with the creation of the state of Israel, and it's my understandning that those people who went there, went there willingly, even eagerly. Which at least in part had to do with their religion.

Furthermore, there are plenty of jews all throughout the western world, here too, whose families never left for Israel, and who most certainly were never driven out, and who, again, has the rights that everyone else does, in my country.


But I know it's not allowed to make statements intentionally intended to hurt a minority, be they Jews, Arabs or who tf cares.
How the feck doubting in something is hurting others feeling, u name that "hurting the feelings" but those cartoons which is direct arrow pointed at us is freedom of speech?
If he stands up and says it never happened, that is certainly him metaphorically spitting every survivor in the face, and a denial of the fact that they suffered.

The cartoons on the other hand, were by all accounts not intended to hurt the average muslim on the street. And, it would be a muslim bloke's right to draw the same sort of cartoons about jesus, if he felt like it, in Denmark.

And how the fook can you equate some cartoons in a newspaper critical of a religion, if that was indeed what they were, with denying something that by all accounts resulted in the death of millions?

[Cheese]

15000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk.

[JPaul]

15000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk.
:lol: :O :ph34r:

[maebach]

the cartoon riots even spread to Nigeria!!! :O:O:O

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=136162&Sn=WORL&IssueID=28339

it says in the artical that they've changed from anti-western to anti-christian.

and the christians are fighting back, by burning mosques.


I couldn't help reading one of the articles on the site, which said a japanese preist raped 20 girls, and said if they refused, they'd go to hell :mellow: I think I'm gonna start a topic soon, on how some preists do this.

[maebach]

I found this on redflagdeals.com, its arabs who hate jews, alot.

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/683165.html

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3804/43f17da31f4059984kwjpg6tk.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Busyman]

On another hypocritical note...

On 60 Minutes, the editor of the Denmark paper that put out the Muhammed cartoons had previously NOT put out a satirical cartoon about Jesus 'cause it would come off as offensive.

:dry:

[Snee]

Watching a clip now.

First impression:

the towns are squeaky clean

^They obviously haven't been in Denmark.

Sauce (http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2006/02/60_minutes_on_d_1.html)


Never have I watched such a poorly investigated 60 minute report.

I am Danish, living abroad so I have the benefit of being able to read both danish news papers as well as english.

I must say that the depiction of the Muhammed crisis is flawed in many instances.

1] 60 min states that the danish newspaper would NOT show depictions of jesus. That is wrong, in fact, this has never even been mentioned. Instead, what the newspaper refused to show was the pictures that an Iranian government owned newspaper wanted to show. Depictuons of jews and in particular jews in the second world war. This would have been an offense in the danish legal system since it is illegal to make a mockery of the jews suffering during WWII.

2] The cultural editor is in Washington on vacation because he recently had an interview with CNN (in America) where he was pressed on the agende of the above pictures (Iranian). He made a wrong statement and was told to go on vacation due to stress.

3] One can buy pictures of Mohammed on the streets of Iran....(not the cartoon edition)

4] Support for the Right Wing in Denmark has NOT grown. It has stayed the same, about 20 percent, since the last election, which occured after Sep.11, and the middle class was scared.

5] The Government have actually given/sold/reserved land for a Mosque in Copenhagen. Only thing that is needed is funds, (the layout of the building has apparently already been approved, as far as I know)

6] There is an official muslim cementary outside Copenhagen.

There are numerous other points in this, especially the lies that the imams have been spreading in the middle east (for instance, it has been claimed that the Danish government was planning to release its own edited version of the Koran..not true. That Islam is illegal in Denmark, obviously not true either. 14 different muslim religions are acknowledged in Denmark by the state.)

There is so much more to this story then that 60 min clip tells. If one reads the news carefully, and from independent sources, it becomes clear that the present level of violence has more to do with internal religious groups fighting (over control with countries), that the publishing of the pictures itself.

There are many other fals claims in that segment (and information conviniently left out) but I can be bothered to explain them all.

I hope someone reads this and maybe thinks twice before accepting ne

I dunno' how right he is, but it's an interesting comment.

Secondly, what would the intent have been for publishing the christian caricatures (if they were christian at all)? I dunno' what the idea was behind those, and they definitely could have published them, according to danish law. They seem to have had some sort of idea what they wanted to do with the mohammed-cartoons, I didn't get any information about what the christian satires were intended for, if the intent was to publish them for a similar purpose it was silly to publish one and leave out the other for sure.

The editor declared responsible has shown christian caricatures after the cartoon-crisis anyhow.

Oh, and if I heard him right the reporter-person says that the editors decided to not publish the cartoons, it may not be the Flemming-bloke who's responsible for leaving one out and including the other. I dunno' if the staff was the same on both occasions, and I dunno' if one of the others is a deeply religious christian, or somesuch, who veto'ed the christian ones for personal reasons, or whatever else was the reason for it.

It's a bit sketchy.

[Busyman]

Watching a clip now.

First impression:

the towns are squeaky clean

^They obviously haven't been in Denmark.
The reporter was in Denmark.:ermm:

[Snee]

How the fook did he figure that, then?

I've been to Denmark, and that's def not how I'd describe them.

[Busyman]

How the fook did he figure that, then?

I've been to Denmark, and that's def not how I'd describe them.
I'm figuring he's only describing the "good" parts he went to. :idunno:

I mean he was there. He even talks with the Imam from Denmark that raised the stink and sent copies of the cartoon to the Middle East.

He describes the stark contrast between the Muslim parts and the rest of Denmark.

That clip (hopefully) should be about 15 minutes long. The show runs about 45 minutes and they do 3 stories plus Andy Rooney.

edit: They probably cleaned up for the reporter.:P

[Vargas]

15,000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk :)

[Barbarossa]

15000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk.


15,000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk :)

:blink:

[Vargas]

15,000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk :)

:blink:
sorry, i was to lazy to check all 33 pages in the thread :O

[Busyman]

:blink:
sorry, i was to lazy to check all 33 pages in the thread :O
Understandable.

I had heard the joke before Cheese posted it too.

Still funny though.

[Snee]

How the fook did he figure that, then?

I've been to Denmark, and that's def not how I'd describe them.
I'm figuring he's only describing the "good" parts he went to. :idunno:

I mean he was there. He even talks with the Imam from Denmark that raised the stink and sent copies of the cartoon to the Middle East.

He describes the stark contrast between the Muslim parts and the rest of Denmark.

That clip (hopefully) should be about 15 minutes long. The show runs about 45 minutes and they do 3 stories plus Andy Rooney.

edit: They probably cleaned up for the reporter.:P
Yeah, watched what there was of the clip all the way through, he seems to have been there.

But he really can't have been paying attention. Or they did a very good job of avoiding like 95% of what was actually there.

Last I was in Copenhagen some junkie walked right into me, and then started swearing at me, in danish (which I kinda' understand, as it sounds like swedish spoken with a mouth full of porridge), 'cos I'd "walked into her".

The place looks like a run-down, dirtier version of Sweden to me (no offence to any danish people, your laws are better in general, anyhow).

I didn't even know that there were any specifically muslim parts, if they didn't make that up. I thought it was like it is here, where they just live like the rest of us. Recent immigrants tend to get put in specific areas tho', but that's for logistical reasons, you get put where there is room when you've not yet become a part of society and can't provide for yourself.

Anyway, he should see the free-zone/free town/Christiania in Copenhagen.

[Barbarossa]

The place looks like a run-down, dirtier version of Sweden to me (no offence to any danish people

I'd hate to see what you'd put if you did want to offend Danish people! :schnauz: :)

[Snee]

The place looks like a run-down, dirtier version of Sweden to me (no offence to any danish people

I'd hate to see what you'd put if you did want to offend Danish people! :schnauz: :)
Hehe.

There's nowt wrong with Denmark, anyhow, or I wouldn't have gone there.
And their laws aren't as strict when it comes to a lot of things.

[Cheese]

I used to know a Danish girl, she was filthy. :naughty:

[BawA]

I saw Talibans blowing up buddhist statues, I saw Bin Laden and other Talibans claiming responsibility for planning terrorist attacks, I saw people being interviewed after the Talibans had been driven off, and they didn't seem very unhappy.
And burning up mosque's and hanging pig's head at their doors after killing Danish director in Denmark is noting?
U must agree that religion racism is in every where.
The binladen thingy is different thing; they had noting to do in Afghanistan government.
Ohh and mercenary operation is done by all country's, like US interfering in Africa.
in all governments there are some peoples who are with them and who don’t that why there are opposition parties, if u see 80% of population of Afghanistan still continue the left over rules(women in scarf’s), its the way those people think, same thing goes for Iraq.


I've seen Auswitch, I've seen where the showers were, and were the massgraves were situated. I've seen recordings of witness-statements from both germans, civilians and soldiers and non-jewish soldiers on the allied side. I've seen pictures from the camps, and heard the stories of survivors, I even saw one hold a speech, when I was very little. Saw the tattoo and all.
Did u saw any thing in graves, making graves and Set's r easy, what so doubtful is the numbers, where in the hell they got 6million Jews at that time.
http://www.israelnewsagency.com/2holocaustracistislamcartoo-1.jpg


Personally, I think you are growing more unpleasant with every post you make.

Neither myself, nor any member of my family, nor my nation had anything to do with the creation of the state of Israel, and it's my understandning that those people who went there, went there willingly, even eagerly. Which at least in part had to do with their religion.

Furthermore, there are plenty of Jews all throughout the western world, here too, whose families never left for Israel, and who most certainly were never driven out, and who, again, has the rights that everyone else does, in my country.

Do u even read history, it’s was British who give Jews that peace of occupied land, its was America who armed Jews to take what they want by force. Who did u think were Nazi people, they were the same German blood and they hated Jews (what u guys say), how can u deny that in Europe there was no hate for Jews. Let face that in history the Jews were hated by all (no offence meant).


If he stands up and says it never happened, that is certainly him metaphorically spitting every survivor in the face, and a denial of the fact that they suffered.
Then how u can’t sue condalisa rise for denying secret prison camps in Europe with thousands of Muslims whom r being tutored.
Why nobody sues Sharon for 100's of mascaras (instead they support him).


Furthermore, there are plenty of Jews all throughout the western world, here too, whose families never left for Israel, and who most certainly were never driven out, and who, again, has the rights that everyone else does, in my country.
That’s now (maybe) but in WWII the only advantage they was staying away from war (Soviet Union), they simply could leave the country cuz they were not welcome in army.

The cartoons on the other hand, were by all accounts not intended to hurt the average Muslim on the street. And, it would be a Muslim bloke's right to draw the same sort of cartoons about jesus, if he felt like it, in Denmark.
How u can say that, Prophet Mohammad was every Muslim’s Prophet, he means a symbol of our religion to us.
And we don’t draw other prophet cartoon to show that what they did was offended, as I said before all prophets (Noah, moss, eissa and Mohammad) are named in Quran and we respect them not just because we fear god, during our education we’re regularly thought about them.

[Afronaut]

Muslims being tutored, perhaps by Sharon of 100 mascaras?

:O

[cpt_azad]

Muslims being tutored, perhaps by Sharon of 100 mascaras?

:O
You being a mod should know not to post something that is off-topic AND instead of making a point, just pointing out someone's grammatical errors. 2 things have been shown here by Afronaut:

1) Mods are pretty damn hypocritical
2) Generalization that everyone on earth speaks perfect English, and those that don't...well they're just labeled stupid.



Sorry, I'm just really pissed off today, as for BaWa's post:



1) You can't really counter-argue Iran's PM speech about how the holocaust never took place by saying something like there are tourture camps in Europe. Such a thing not only does not exist (and if it does, it changes very little things about your rebuttle), it is counter-productive.

Instead of saying that Iran's PM was wrong in saying that, you just countered it by saying "what about such and such"? Well that's like subtracting unlike variable, it doesnt make sense.

(I don't know who Bawa quoted, so this is directed to whoever was quoted in Bawa's last post)


2) (Not Bawa's post): You must really be fuckin smart eh? Shiz, did you get your history pHD at the school of shitology? Or are you just pulling some sort of colorful crap out of your ass? This is exactly what is happening to more and more people nowadays, they are believing the media more and the past is now becoming whatever the media wants it to be. Ask your average Joe or Jane (no not Americans, this is targeted towards everyone) about the current situation in the ME and who is right. I can guarantee a lot of the answers are going to be "Israel is right" or something along the lines of that, such things make me wanna puke in their faces. Israel WAS created by the UK and with support from the US. (However I must point out that the UK did give weapons to the Palestinians). Where do you think Israel get it's annual military budget from? I dont know about you (and trust me, if you disagree on me on the next point doesnt matter who you are, you're either a fuckin liar and a hypocrite, or a just backboneless individual), but I certainly would pick up a gun and fight for my country and my freedom and my land if some other occupying force just happened to come over and take over Canada because some UN resolution passed allowing another party to legally take over my country.


The last sentence is true for everyone (unless you were obviously being oppressed before...even then it has anamolies). Would you not fight for your right, fight for your country, and your land that you have been leaving on peacefully for oohhh I don't know, generations upon generations?


Another thing is that the Jews and the Arabs lived peacefully before Hitler came to power. It's when the Jews started to move out of Europe and into Palestine (pre-1945) that things got heated (UK giving weapons to Palestinians).


If anything (and this goes for BaWa and every other Jew hater, or Arab hater, or w/e), Hitler is the one to blame. If it was not for him, there would be no WWII, there would be no Israel (albeit it probably would have been created sometime in the future if the set of events went the way it did, but who's to say for sure?) and most of all there would be 6 million more Jews on this earth (that last statement is not racist, I hate it how when people say something that "sounds" racist and is targeted towards Jews, they automatically and spontaneously consider it to be racist).



So in conclusion, everyone STFU.


Muslims chill the fuck out, they're pictures, it's not the end of the world. FFS, we're not even Muslims. ANY MUSLIMS THAT SAYS HE'S A MUSLIM nowadays is just plain out lying. Real muslims died out years ago. I can tell you taht a real muslim would not kill, maim, burn and steal/riot over a bunch of stupid pictures and use Islam as a shield.


It's very very disgraceful. The other day (yes I'm muslim, and yes that last statement was oxymoronic and a paradox for sure. I'm muslim in the sense that I was born into a "muslim" family but I don't really follow it what-so-ever) I received an email from some el-fago that said to spread the word about boycotting Danish goods. What in the fuck? And at the bottom of the email the dumbfuck had the nerve to put "Remember, one day Muhammad (PBUH) will ask you what you did for him and Islam, so do the right thing."



I literally wanted to punch the guy out if I knew who he was, and worst of all, all "muslims" are buying into this chain-letter bullshit. Muslims are giving Islam a badname, any shred of respect for Islam from the outside world (non-"muslim") have diminished into an infinitismely small amount.

[/rant muslim]





So ya, STFU everyone, the sooner we can ignore the so called "muslim" (population), the sooner this will die down.



And the cartoonists that made those pics, I support you 100%, freedom of speech cannot be usurped away by radicalism because it seems Islam is the official shield for wreaking havoc. It's totally fine to kill others and go fucking crazy over a bunch of pictures because it's against our religion... even though such things (murder, rioting, stealing) are completely against our religion...so wait? Paradox anyone.


Everyone's a fucking hypocrite (yes even me, I won't be a hypocrite and I'll add myself to the list).



If you actually read this entire post, kudos for not having a brain seizure due to bad grammer and inconsistent sentences (me no good english). And if any of it made sense, then at least someone out there understands where I'm coming from.

[Cheese]

el-fago
Heh heh. You said "fag".

[maebach]

U must agree that religion racism is in every where.

being a hindu, I find it hard to believe how many muslims there are in India, and how many mosques. I've seen mosques built where hindu temples were built.


The binladen thingy is different thing; they had noting to do in Afghanistan government.

THEY OWNED FUCKING AFGHANISTAN!!! THEY WERE THE GOVERNMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!


Ohh and mercenary operation is done by all country's, like US interfering in Africa.

If they didn't interfere, everybody would be dead by now, from AIDS and STD and civil wars. :dry:


Did u saw any thing in graves, making graves and Set's r easy, what so doubtful is the numbers, where in the hell they got 6million Jews at that time.

Where do you fucking think they'd find the jews? It's not hard, there were plenty of jews living there. They killed 6 million jews from: Germany, Poland, Austria-Hungary and the surrounding countries. You sound as if you tihnk Jews are a minority everywhere. and when you see one, you should be able to say, 'Hey look its a JEW, I thought I'd never see one, can I have your autograph'


Do u even read history, it’s was British who give Jews that peace of occupied land

true


thats all I have to say.

I read all of azad's post, very interesting thoughts. BAWA's gonna flame you for not being pure-blooded muslim.

[DanB]

bawa's a prick though so it doesn't matter ;)

[Cheese]

http://www.israelnewsagency.com/2holocaustracistislamcartoo-1.jpg




Don't you think it is a little hypocritical to post a cartoon mocking the Jewish Holocaust in a thread were you are complaining about people publishing cartoons mocking your own faith.

Also, can you read what the top left hand corner of your cartoon says? Or, more importantly, can you understand what it means? Maybe in future you should not get your holocaust jokes from an Israeli site?

From the same page:

http://www.israelnewsagency.com/iranholocaustcartoonfunny.jpg

http://www.israelnewsagency.com/iranholocaustcartoonscontestseo480213.html

[Snee]

Bawa, who the fuck feeds you this nonsense?

Mosques being burned in Denmark, director being killed? :blink:
When, and what the fuck are you talking about?
Torture camps... <-That's a lie, made up, a fabrication, not real. Get it?
And I dunno' what you mean about mascaras, I really don't.

As for the talibans, well, maebach said it: They ran the fucking place!

As for the holocaust, how stupid are you, to think it's made up. What sort of fucktard propaganda have you been fed?

It would, as I've already said, have been impossible to make that up, and fool us all. Discounting the graves and whatnot that exist today, there's a whole lot of history they had to have faked.

Most people back then had nothing to do with the jews, but they saw enough to believe, unless you are trying to say it's a vast conspiracy spanning generations everywhere in Europe, and beyond.


And we don't all hate jews, most people here and elsewhere don't worry more about the jews than any other people. And Europe isn't a country, you can't point at what some Germans did in the 1930s and 1940s, as an example of what people think in my country today, you jackass.

As for the creation of Israel, it was felt, by certain parties that the jews were owed something because of what they'd been through, because some had waited so long to act, and to see what was going on, I reckon.

I'm sure there were other, more political reasons as well, but hatred of jews was not the motivator.

And yeah, there were and are lots of jews all around the world, many more than the six million said to have been killed during the holocaust, certainly.

And those six million were, again, as maebach says, gathered together from more than one country. How few people do you think there are in the world, really, If you think six million members of an ethnic group such as the jews is an impossible number?



And captain azzz, I hope your #2 wasn't directed at me, especially so since I'm european, but neither british, nor american, nor a citizen of any country that was a major player in the war, hence my country had fuckall to do with the creation of Israel.

Don't fuck with afro, Bawa really doesn't deserve respect, not after what he's been saying, and the lies he's perpetuating.


And as for the cartoons themselves, I've said this like three times already:
The cartoons seem to have been aimed at fanatics, you know, the blokes who tell people to grab a bomb and go and blow up innocents.

It's a way of saying: "This is the mohammed you believe in, this is what you've turned him into" to them.

Unless you really think mohammed and allah want people to kill innocents, that's not the mohammed you believe in.

[maebach]

Mosques being burned in Denmark, director being killed? :blink:
When, and what the fuck are you talking about?


I think he's talking about Theo Van Gogh. He was called by a muslim radical because he made a fil on women in islam, or something like that. I guess after he was killed, people burned down mosques in Denmark :mellow:
theovangogh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_%28film_director%29)
At least I think thats what he meant.

[JPaul]

bawa's a prick though so it doesn't matter ;)
Yeah, but asda is an interweb fantasist tit, which trumps a prick in anyone's book.

[Snee]

Mosques being burned in Denmark, director being killed? :blink:
When, and what the fuck are you talking about?


I think he's talking about Theo Van Gogh. He was called by a muslim radical because he made a fil on women in islam, or something like that. I guess after he was killed, people burned down mosques in Denmark :mellow:
theovangogh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_%28film_director%29)
At least I think thats what he meant.
That bloke got murdered by a muslim fundamentalist in the Netherlands over a year ago, so I suppose that's where any mosques got burned, and churches got burned too, not just mosques.

I've even seen people write that the mosques got better protection from the police, but I dunno' about that.

[Snee]

bawa's a prick though so it doesn't matter ;)
Yeah, but asda is an interweb fantasist tit, which trumps a prick in anyone's book.
You have to admit that him trying to act as the voice of reason in here is downright hilarious, tho'.

[cpt_azad]

Yeah, but asda is an interweb fantasist tit, which trumps a prick in anyone's book. You have to admit that him trying to act as the voice of reason in here is downright hilarious, tho'.
Yee, it's fuckin hilarious aint it dumbass? :lol:


"Hi my name is SnnY Faggot, how may I suck your cock today?"

Someone please just lock this thread, BaWa will never be able to comprehend what I or the rest of the board is trying to say.

[maebach]

He's an understanding person, he will try to comprehend, have faith. :mellow:

[BawA]

The binladen thingy is different thing; they had noting to do in Afghanistan government.

THEY OWNED FUCKING AFGHANISTAN!!! THEY WERE THE GOVERNMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!

i meant Bin Laden not taliban http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/images/icons/icon2.gif

[Snee]

You have to admit that him trying to act as the voice of reason in here is downright hilarious, tho'.
Yee, it's fuckin hilarious aint it dumbass? :lol:


"Hi my name is SnnY Faggot, how may I suck your cock today?"
You know, sometimes you almost have me convinced you've got an IQ over 70, then you go and make some shit up, ie: "I do steroids and I've just beaten up a burgular, lolz, roflmao...", and sometimes it's well nasty, like inciting people to scam twelve year olds, or you try and act all righteous when you haven't got a clue of what's going on, or some other jackassery like in this thread (are you pretending to be an "intellect" again? :unsure:), and I know my first impression was right :happy:

Whoever lets the monkey type, can you take the keyboard away from him? it's embarassing.

---------------------

Anyhow, mods, don't close it, let it play itself out (you can cut this out tho', if you think things are getting nasty).

I'm still hoping BawA'll calm down and start thinking critically, he may be acting all kinds of predjudiced and uninformed right now, but I s'pose he's caught up in some sort of hysteria, over yonder.

[Busyman]

Yee, it's fuckin hilarious aint it dumbass? :lol:


"Hi my name is SnnY Faggot, how may I suck your cock today?"
You know, sometimes you almost have me convinced you've got an IQ over 70, then you go and make some shit up, ie: "I do steroids and I've just beaten up a burgular, lolz, roflmao...", and sometimes it's well nasty, like inciting people to scam twelve year olds, or you try and act all righteous when you haven't got a clue of what's going on, or some other jackassery like in this thread (are you pretending to be an "intellect" again? :unsure:), and I know my first impression was right :happy:

Whoever lets the monkey type, can you take the keyboard away from him? it's embarassing.

---------------------

Anyhow, mods, don't close it, let it play itself out (you can cut this out tho', if you think things are getting nasty).

I'm still hoping BawA'll calm down and start thinking critically, he may be acting all kinds of predjudiced and uninformed right now, but I s'pose he's caught up in some sort of hysteria, over yonder.
Yeah there's this cartoon that's coming to poke their eyes out.:blink: :pinch:

[BawA]

Bawa, who the fuck feeds you this nonsense?

Mosques being burned in Denmark, director being killed?
When, and what the fuck are you talking about?
Torture camps... <-That's a lie, made up, a fabrication, not real. Get it?

That’s shows your not aware of any sh*t.
U dont know anything about history (when you said about Israel).

Theo van Gogh, he was the main reason why those cartoon where made, if he wasn’t to make his freaking movie he wouldn’t piss his murderer and a hate wouldn’t rise in Denmark against Muslims after that, many mosque were burnt and damaged buy local residents in Denmark. FFS watch some news.


As for the holocaust, how stupid are you, to think it's made up. What sort of fucktard propaganda have you been fed?
I never said "NO JEWS WERE KILLED", I only doubted the numbers, I think that huge number is to maximize whole thing.
You’re more pissed then the way EU acted after Iran's PM's speech, I wonder if u have same Fillings for Bosniaherzogoving.



Don't fuck with afro, Bawa really doesn't deserve respect, not after what he's been saying, and the lies he's perpetuating.
I think board members know better who to respect, the guy with poor English or the guy who uses his "good" English to curse and swear.
What lies ive been telling? If u believe that much in freedom of speech u should respected what I think and my right to say them.


And as for the cartoons themselves, I've said this like three times already:
The cartoons seem to have been aimed at fanatics, you know, the blokes who tell people to grab a bomb and go and blow up innocents.

It's a way of saying: "This is the Mohammed you believe in, this is what you've turned him into" to them.

Unless you really think Mohammed and Allah want people to kill innocents, that's not the mohammed you believe in.
U say there r better way for Muslims to show their sadness and their view over those cartoon and they shouldn’t been burning flags well same thing goes to your self, if the cartoonist wanted to prove something he could go with something more decent, he knew the consequences but he choose to do what he wanted and the results r here.

To Cpt Azad...
Not going on the way of Islam doesn’t mean u should abandon it, as a Muslim u should try ur best no matter how best is that. Take it this way, drinking one drop of alcohol doesn’t make you unforgivable, u can always go back after all Allah is RAHIM.
and I don’t share the same thoughts with you about not having real Muslims now(a simple example is my mother) but I do believe today’s Muslims r less Muslim then what they've used to be, but only Prophets r absolute mankind’s, away from any mistakes and humans r mistakable.

[Cheese]

Bawa, who the fuck feeds you this nonsense?

Mosques being burned in Denmark, director being killed?
When, and what the fuck are you talking about?
Torture camps... <-That's a lie, made up, a fabrication, not real. Get it?

That shows you are not aware of any shit.
You do not know anything about history (eg what you said about Israel).

Theo van Gogh, he was the main reason why those cartoon were made. If he didn't make his freaking movie he would not have pissed off his murderer and hate wouldn’t rise in Denmark against Muslims. After that, many mosques were burnt and damaged by local residents in Denmark. For fuck's sake watch some news.


As for the holocaust, how stupid are you, to think it's made up. What sort of fucktard propaganda have you been fed? I never said "NO JEWS WERE KILLED", I only doubted the numbers, I think that huge number is to maximize whole thing.
You’re more pissed than the way the EU acted after PM of Iran's speech, I wonder if you have the same feelings for Bosnia-Hercegovina.



Don't fuck with afro, Bawa really doesn't deserve respect, not after what he's been saying, and the lies he's perpetuating. I think the board members know better who to respect; the guy with poor English or the guy who uses his "good" English to curse and swear.
What lies have I been telling? If you believe that much in freedom of speech you should respect what I think and my right to say them.


And as for the cartoons themselves, I've said this like three times already:
The cartoons seem to have been aimed at fanatics, you know, the blokes who tell people to grab a bomb and go and blow up innocents.

It's a way of saying: "This is the Mohammed you believe in, this is what you've turned him into" to them.

Unless you really think Mohammed and Allah want people to kill innocents, that's not the mohammed you believe in. You say there are better way for Muslims to show their sadness and their view over those cartoon and they shouldn’t been burning flags. Well same thing goes to your self, if the cartoonist wanted to prove something he could go with something more decent, he knew the consequences but he choose to do what he wanted and the results are here.

To Cpt Spaztard...
Not going on the way of Islam doesn’t mean you should abandon it, as a Muslim you should try your best no matter how good that is. Take it this way, drinking one drop of alcohol doesn’t make you unforgivable, you can always go back after all Allah is RAHIM.

I don’t share the same thoughts with you about not having real Muslims now(a simple example is my mother) but I do believe Muslims today are less Muslim then what they used to be. Only Prophets are absolute men (when they are not marrying nine year-olds), away from any mistakes and humans are mistakable.

[BawA]

Correcting Grammar
Thanks http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/images/icons/icon1.gif

[Biggles]

Bawa

I think there is perhaps too much distrust and inaccurate reporting on both sides.

The mosques in Europe are not on fire - who says they are? Likewise, many of the peaceful demonstrations against the cartoons have been ignored by the Western media. The violence that has occurred and the deaths, about 150 so far, and rising, seems wholly disproportionate to the original problem from a Western standpoint and causes more distrust and unease.

The original cartoons were not especially cruel or nasty and were making political points about bombers using Islam as a cover not religious ones. To be perfectly honest, few in the West are interested in Islam - it hardly sits well with our culture and lifestyles. I don't think anyone wants to insult Muslims but train and plane bombs do attract attention - mostly the wrong sort of attention. The noisy radicals give the impression that they speak for all of Islam. It is up to the ordinary Muslim to show that they do not. Violent protests with huge numbers of dead do not help this cause. The Turks had a huge demonstration in Istanbul without killing anyone or burning any embassies. Is this not a better way?

With regards the killing of Jews in WW2, I am baffled as to why this is an issue. The documentation is there. A lot of people died in WW2 - upwards of 35 million and possibly more. Why this sudden questioning of whether the Germans really did what they say they did? The Jewish holocaust was not the only one of WW2. The Japanese death camps in China killed huge numbers and the Germans were responsible for the deaths of 20 million Russians. In turn the Russians killed several million Germans. The only valid gripe that I can see regarding the Holocaust is that it tends to blur the fact that WW2 was a holocaust for a lot of peoples including Gypsies, Slavs and Manchurians. However, the solution is to raise awareness of these other attrocities rather than diminish the one that occurred to the Jews.

[BawA]

to be honest thats one quality post :thums up:
i can say thats a no sided post.

but still Prophet Mohd is a symbol of our religion and pointing finger at him is pointing finger at muslims generaly, and people who want to point our negitive points should find better exampels, our Prophet did what he could do to educate us, to direct us at "Right", its some of us who go to so called the "wrong way" he shouldnt be held for that.
thats my final words in this thread.

[Busyman]

At Bawa, I doubt the numbers as well but I have no idea what the real numbers are either. :idunno:

[JPaul]

At Bawa, I doubt the numbers as well
Based on what, pray tell.

[Afronaut]

Just to inform, im not a moderator anymore. have not been for couple of months.
;)

I know hope Bawa could type with little more sense sometimes
so that I as a non-english-linguor could understand the post.

:)

[Snee]

That’s shows your not aware of any sh*t.
U dont know anything about history (when you said about Israel).


Again, who has fed you the nonsense you believe in.
It wasn't hatred of jews that made the british, and americans (AND NOT MY PEOPLE, 'K?) help create Israel.

If you are going to keep insisting that your idiocies are correct, please provide me with one solid, unbiased source, as evidence of what you said. Please.

Go for it, genious.



Theo van Gogh, he was the main reason why those cartoon where made, if he wasn’t to make his freaking movie he wouldn’t piss his murderer and a hate wouldn’t rise in Denmark against Muslims after that, many mosque were burnt and damaged buy local residents in Denmark. FFS watch some news.
He was dutch, the mosques and churches burned there, after his death.
Why would the Danes go out their way to pick a fight with you, as you seem to think they wanted, over something that happened in another country?

Go and get the facts straight.



As for the holocaust, how stupid are you, to think it's made up. What sort of fucktard propaganda have you been fed?
I never said "NO JEWS WERE KILLED", I only doubted the numbers, I think that huge number is to maximize whole thing.
You’re more pissed then the way EU acted after Iran's PM's speech, I wonder if u have same Fillings for Bosniaherzogoving.
Is there anyone, anywhere, who has claimed that the numbers are off wrt Bosnia, then?

And before you start rambling about "toture camps" in Europe, please take a moment to reflect on what the things that happened in old Yugoslavia didn't just affect muslims, and that the war wasn't about muslims versus everybody else.

Some serbs held bosnians and croats in concentration camps, some croats held bosnians, and probably serbs, and so on.

Those serbs who perpetrated the initial crimes weren't aiming at the bosnians because they were muslims, the were trying to cleanse what they saw as their land from other peoples. Then, as the war escalated, I suppose the other side(s) lost their minds as well, there was plenty of ethnical cleansing, but it wasn't about you.

They weren't exclusively muslim concentration/death camps, they were camps where one side or another put those who they saw as enemies.

And it most certainly wasn't Europe as a whole that committed the crimes.

It was two peoples, in one nation (well, technically three, now).

Oh yeah, and they can't be the camps you mentioned before, since you wrote:

Then how u can’t sue condalisa rise for denying secret prison camps in Europe with thousands of Muslims whom r being tutored.
No one, except for the people who committed the crimes, denied what happened in Yugoslavia, so it can't be those camps you are talking about

Where are those secret camps where muslims are being tortured then?

As far as I know, you made them up. So yeah, lies. Evil lies at that.







Don't fuck with afro, Bawa really doesn't deserve respect, not after what he's been saying, and the lies he's perpetuating.
I think board members know better who to respect, the guy with poor English or the guy who uses his "good" English to curse and swear.
What lies ive been telling? If u believe that much in freedom of speech u should respected what I think and my right to say them.[/quote]
Have you read what you posted lately?

You've claimed all kinds of things about Europeans, including my people, things that most certainly aren't true, and you've thrown in a denial of the holocaust, or as you'd have it now, a doubt of the number of people that died, and btw, as long as we are on the subject, would it matter if it was only 3 million people or something who died in that horrible way?

Feck, claiming that we all think alike, and that we have the same constitution, and all of the statements you've made about us all being some sort of homogenous group, is not just stupid, it's sort of an insult all of its own.

Or do you like it if someone says that all arabs are the same?

At least my insults have been personal, I've called you a jackass, I haven't insulted, and accused everyone in your part of the world of being against me, or any other, more horrible things. Without evidence to back it up, at that.



And as for the cartoons themselves, I've said this like three times already:
The cartoons seem to have been aimed at fanatics, you know, the blokes who tell people to grab a bomb and go and blow up innocents.

It's a way of saying: "This is the Mohammed you believe in, this is what you've turned him into" to them.

Unless you really think Mohammed and Allah want people to kill innocents, that's not the mohammed you believe in.
U say there r better way for Muslims to show their sadness and their view over those cartoon and they shouldn’t been burning flags well same thing goes to your self, if the cartoonist wanted to prove something he could go with something more decent, he knew the consequences but he choose to do what he wanted and the results r here.
How does that answer what I said? It doesn't.

You chose to interpret the cartoons in the worst way possible.

Now, what is worse - a couple of blokes making a few drawings, insulting nutjobs. Or millions of people rioting, burning flags, killing and getting other killed, or like you do, accusing people who had nothing at all to do with the making of the cartoons, of all sort of idiotic things.

You made the choice to refuse to even try to understand what the actual purpose behind the cartoons might have been. You have made the choice to alienate yourself from the rest of the world. And you have decided to insult all of Europe, without having a fucking clue what you are talking about.

In my book, Your bad > His bad.

So yeah, I'll swear and I'll insult you to my heart's content, 'cos you deserve all you get, by now. And, everything I say about you, is about you, not muslims in general.

[Snee]

proxy hiccups.

[jetje]

Dutch mosques burned...? it was just a few dumb kids that had to little to do and were too dumb to think by them selves. Only 1 small fire at a mosque, and 1 school burned down. Still too much but as Bawa proves there are a lot of dumb and ignorant people in the world.

Bawa, i'm pretty sure that Mo... was a good guy that wanted the best for the people, too bad that the people writing his words in the koran twisted a lot, and even worse, there are a lot of people that use those written words and interpret it the way they like it to be interpreted. With the low education level in most of the muslim countries you get people that haven't learned to think for themselves, taking the words of the people that just can read, as granted.

btw same thing goes for christianity in general, with the difference that education level in most of the western countries is higher and people start to think for themselves. With that religion gets far less important and the radical and fundamentalistic ideas get lost. So now i'm just hoping they get more education in the middle east and east. Give people the tools to think for themselves, give them work, a good home and a future to care for. And they won't get upset by some cartoons anymore. They will worry about real important things in life....

Fucking thing is that the ruling people in the muslim countries (most times religious leaders) are just trying to avoid that... Cause that will end their reign! Simple as that....

I really think that if the people would have a chance and the political/religious leaders would not interfer, there is a solution for palestina (and all the other conflict regions in the world). I'm sure people will live together in peace, no matter what colour or religion they are. Build houses and help eachother out. feed eachoter, trade with eachother, hell, even mary eachother.
There are no real boundries between people and countries. It's only imaginary lines that too bad are sometimes abused by people that are in search of power.

[BawA]

Bawa, i'm pretty sure that Mo... was a good guy that wanted the best for the people, too bad that the people writing his words in the koran twisted a lot, and even worse, there are a lot of people that use those written words and interpret it the way they like it to be interpreted. With the low education level in most of the muslim countries you get people that haven't learned to think for themselves, taking the words of the people that just can read as granted.
You're Wrong there, Quran was writen by Prophet Mohammed once and is never been Editen (Unlike bible), its been untouched and editing it is a big sin for us.
so u think that people are not allowded to think in religion matters(here), our prophet himself mentioned in quran that not to choose Islam just becuz u were born muslim, he said to reserch and find the answers for "why's".
religion is big part of our lifes(e.g we have to pray 5 time a day) we cant just leave it.
not beliving in the religion and not giving it any piority is why u have huge numbers of rapes, molestations, gay and lesbian's over there, there r no bounderies for u guys, u just keep doing what u want(so called "freedom").
we have strict rules for them, thats why our avarages over above mentioned cases are almost zero. churches have child molestations cases and gay fathers(for god sake is that a god house or devils), we have christians over here, notting wrong goes with them, u know why cuz they have more power in thier beliving then you.

btw i forgot to tell you that u have a nice vision built up for islamic countries, u think all islamic countries are like iran or pakistan, well that not true, mostly we have a mix compenition of islamic and democratic rules(for eg. we dont allow to drink on streets so u go nuts and make problem for others but we have some special places for them).

[jetje]

was that the original quran of Mo that you read??? Is that the Quran that sais you can't draw him? Is that the same Quran that sais there's only 1 true religion. Is that the Quran that sais you need to kill every non believer of the truth faith? Is that the same Quran that asks for fatwah's on every man that sais something negative about Islam or Mo? There are no other versions of the quran? Bawa, the guys words are a thousand times twisted/translated and interpret before you read your 1st line of it. Every Imam interpret it in the way he wants it. They tell you their true of the Quran. That's the same problem with the bible btw... It's just stories and fairytales.

Fact is that a lot of Muslimcountries are backwards, still in the dark ages. At least most of the people are poor and have little education. Just a small minority lives in overwhelming wealth. Don't say it ain't true, i've been around the world. i've seen it with my own eyes. Why do so many muslims try to leave their regions and seek work, wealth and luck in the west? Just because in their own countries they won't have those opportunities they have in the west. Just as every other man, muslim fathers wanna give their children the opportunity to have a better life. Have work so they don't have to beg, or suffer hunger and live in poverty. Luckily i see plenty of muslims here in the west trying to live their live as it should. Respect eachother! They live their live as they want it and let others live it as they want. Fact is that if you disagree in belives, religions or whatever, you can fight or you can respect the fact that others have a different opinion. Unite in the fact that you have reciprocal respect. Unite in the fact that you agree that you both disagree with the way people live their life, but both respect that.

What Muslims leaders tried to do with the van Gogh movie, the danish cartoons and thousands of other moments is to divide people into camps.
Muslim world, christian and jew world. Politicians (and ayatollahs and Imams are politicians!) do that. Don't get me wrong, in the west politicians try to do the same, sometimes they succeed. But never in the way that people are provoked in the muslim world. The mass hysteria that starts every time an ayatollah, or imam calls for an intifadah, fatwah or however they call all those spells.... the mass hysteria is there because of lack of education and expectancy in a better life, and people believe all those lies... best example is you. Denying the holocaust.

[BawA]

was that the original quran of Mo that you read??? Is that the Quran that sais you can't draw him? Is that the same Quran that sais there's only 1 true religion. Is that the Quran that sais you need to kill every non believer of the truth faith? Is that the same Quran that asks for fatwah's on every man that sais something negative about Islam or Mo? There are no other versions of the quran? Bawa, the guys words are a thousand times twisted/translated and interpret before you read your 1st line of it. Every Imam interpret it in the way he wants it. They tell you their true of the Quran. That's the same problem with the bible btw... It's just stories and fairytales.

Fact is that a lot of Muslimcountries are backwards, still in the dark ages. At least most of the people are poor and have little education. Just a small minority lives in overwhelming wealth. Don't say it ain't true, i've been around the world. i've seen it with my own eyes. Why do so many muslims try to leave their regions and seek work, wealth and luck in the west? Just because in their own countries they won't have those opportunities they have in the west. Just as every other man, muslim fathers wanna give their children the opportunity to have a better life. Have work so they don't have to beg, or suffer hunger and live in poverty. Luckily i see plenty of muslims here in the west trying to live their live as it should. Respect eachother! They live their live as they want it and let others live it as they want. Fact is that if you disagree in belives, religions or whatever, you can fight or you can respect the fact that others have a different opinion. Unite in the fact that you have reciprocal respect. Unite in the fact that you agree that you both disagree with the way people live their life, but both respect that.

What Muslims leaders tried to do with the van Gogh movie, the danish cartoons and thousands of other moments is to divide people into camps.
Muslim world, christian and jew world. Politicians (and ayatollahs and Imams are politicians!) do that. Don't get me wrong, in the west politicians try to do the same, sometimes they succeed. But never in the way that people are provoked in the muslim world. The mass hysteria that starts every time an ayatollah, or imam calls for an intifadah, fatwah or however they call all those spells.... the mass hysteria is there because of lack of education and expectancy in a better life, and people believe all those lies... best example is you. Denying the holocaust.
again ur miss-understood muslims, no were in quran says that dont respect others opinion, its us that cant stand insult of our religion leaders, will u like somebody saying craps about your beloving ones(like your mom)? least ull do is telling him what u think, some show that by bunching in the face and other do it by talking. we have the orginal hand writed quran by mohd, and again its not been changed and even there is the orginal bible in roma u can check it, u know how strict is quran printing, its being checked word by word before it reaches markts, and u wont find any diffrence in millions of copies.
again u think all countries r afghanistan or pakistan, we have way better life then u guys over here, people come to arab countries for better lifes including u red neck's. nobody dies becuz of hunger, everybody gets food thats the least. u know what non locals do to keep thier butts over here, u cant imagin.

and its my well if i do belive in holocuast or not, u said urself every one has his opinion, u keep thinking that muslims r fool and retarded and ill stick with my opinion.

[100%]

are there only good muslims?

[Skillian]

BawA, jetje is just saying that the Quran can be interpreted differently by many different people, and that education is key to allowing people to determine the meaning for themselves.

Your denial of the holocaust is an example of how people will just take the word of others as truth (who did tell you that, by the way?). If you did any independent research or thinking you would realise how wrong you are.