Islam's Roots

[thewizeard]

Pwned! ???



...There are over one billion Muslims spread across the globe in all nationalities, languages and ethnic backgrounds. Islam was the religion of the first couple, Adam and Eve. It was also the religion of messengers of God like Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus.



OK maybe I missed something, but I thought that the Muslim Religion began around 700 AD... during the life of said Prophet Muhammad.

http://www.muhammad.net/

[GepperRankins]

the religion isn't gonna start before creation is it? :dabs:

[Biggles]

All exclusive religions have to construct a "we were first" reality. It doesn't really work otherwise.

[Snee]

Bad form just ripping off judaism like that, tho'.

If they'd had class they'd renamed some of the characters at least :snooty:

They could have called Adam "Achmed", and Eve "Shazam" or something :unsure:

[human_pet]

Just to clarify something.Muslims do not think the religion God decreed for humans started with Prophet Muhammad.It started right after Adam was created.As such,he became the first prophet of Islam.And there were other prophets after him,like Nuh(or Noah) ,Jacob Isa(Jesus) Musa(Moses),and Muhammad.So we Muslims believe that all of these prophets were sent by God with basically the same message and that is: To worship the only one God without ascribing any partners to Him.

Prophet Muhammad was the last line of prophets that God had decreed to be sent.After the death of Prophet Muhammad,God wouldn't send any other prophets, unlike previously where God never mentioned in any of the previous Holy Books that He would stop sending anymore prophets.(In the Holy Koran,God has mentioned that Prophet Muhammad is the seal of the prophets,i.e the last line).And this is also why,in the Holy Koran, God has promised to protect the Koran from corruption and adulteration of any kind.

And,unlike Judaism or Christianity,the name 'Islam' was not taken from a person nor from the name of a place. (Our religion isn't called Muhammadism !).In Arabic,Islam actaully means submission,in the sense that those who follow Islam,i.e Muslims,are people who submit to the one God and believe in what He says and that means to believe in all of the prophets that we were told of(not all of God's prophets are mentioned in the Holy Koran).

[JPaul]

Just to clarify something.Muslims do not think the religion God decreed for humans started with Prophet Muhammad.It started right after Adam was created.As such,he became the first prophet of Islam.And there were other prophets after him,like Nuh(or Noah) ,Jacob Isa(Jesus) Musa(Moses),and Muhammad.So we Muslims believe that all of these prophets were sent by God with basically the same message and that is: To worship the only one God without ascribing any partners to Him.

Prophet Muhammad was the last line of prophets that God had decreed to be sent.After the death of Prophet Muhammad,God wouldn't send any other prophets, unlike previously where God never mentioned in any of the previous Holy Books that He would stop sending anymore prophets.(In the Holy Koran,God has mentioned that Prophet Muhammad is the seal of the prophets,i.e the last line).And this is also why,in the Holy Koran, God has promised to protect the Koran from corruption and adulteration of any kind.

And,unlike Judaism or Christianity,the name 'Islam' was not taken from a person nor from the name of a place. (Our religion isn't called Muhammadism !).In Arabic,Islam actaully means submission,in the sense that those who follow Islam,i.e Muslims,are people who submit to the one God and believe in what He says and that means to believe in all of the prophets that we were told of(not all of God's prophets are mentioned in the Holy Koran).


Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated.

[thewizeard]

And,unlike Judaism or Christianity,the name 'Islam' was not taken from a person nor from the name of a place. (Our religion isn't called Muhammadism !).In Arabic,Islam actaully means submission,in the sense that those who follow Islam,i.e Muslims,are people who submit to the one God and believe in what He says and that means to believe in all of the prophets that we were told of(not all of God's prophets are mentioned in the Holy Koran).

and one of those Prophets was Jesus, can you remember his message?

If you forget one prophet and his message, then later messages might just get taken out of context...don't you think?

[sArA]

I guess that my understanding stops where the concept of embrasing faith in God leads to ritual and blind obedience to doctrine decreed by powerful men (usually).

This of course applies to all religions pretty much and holy books seems to be particularly vulnerable to misinterpretation and reinterpretation as language, meaning and emphasis change over the 2 millenia or thereabouts (depending on which team you support) since.

[thewizeard]

One important thing that I remember and endeared me to Buddhism is one of the statements Buddha made, he said, "Don't believe everything you read in books, including Buddhist books"

[Filliz]

"Don't believe everything you read in books, including Buddhist books"
If only those fanatic bible,koran and other holy book huggers would realise this.

The Bible for instance,how many times do you think it has been revised to suit the needs and wishes of the people in power?
Especially in the Dark Ages where the only people that could read or write were monks.

[human_pet]

and one of those Prophets was Jesus, can you remember his message?

If you forget one prophet and his message, then later messages might just get taken out of context...don't you think?


Umm,that's whole point of sending prophets after prophets.Just like why God sent Prophet Jesus after Prophet Moses,to remind what has been forgotten or adulterated.And that is why God has promised to safeguard the Holy Koran from any changes and adulteration because God has ordained that Prophet Mohammad will be the last Prophet of God and so even now,not a word in the Koran has been changed.Oh and btw,here's a verse in the Koran mentioniong about Jesus's Message :

In surat Al-Ma’idah, we read:“And behold! Allah will say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah?’ He will say: ‘Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [/BOLD]Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord;[/BOLD] and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things’.” (Al-Ma’idah: 116-117)

[Snee]

In the original english too. Noice.

[BrolyBoo]

how did humans create the bible, IF Islam was the first one? did it spawn off of Islam like they tried make fake relgion become real? Or is it the other way around? Or maybe it doesnt even include islam, any relgioion infact

[cpt_azad]

I have a question....who wrote the first version/copy of the Bible? And when was it written, keyword when? Is it plausible (ok I'm assuming, I'm not making any real statements SO PLEASE PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong which I probably am) that a person (or group of people) wrote about Jesus and whatnot hundreds of years after his crusifiction (spelling!)?

How did the authors know that that was exactly what happened? Once again, I don't know for sure when the bible was written, but I'm assuming it was many many years after Jesus died....

Just something that bothers me.

Oh and another thing, once again correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there a passage somewhere in the bible that talks about how when Jesus was born the dates were ripe? Then how can Jesus have been born in December...dates aren't ripe in december, are they?

(hey that dates being ripe thing could have been something stupid I heard a long time ago, I honestly don't know if it's in the Bible).

[Barbarossa]

I have a question....who wrote the first version/copy of the Bible? And when was it written, keyword when? Is it plausible (ok I'm assuming, I'm not making any real statements SO PLEASE PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong which I probably am) that a person (or group of people) wrote about Jesus and whatnot hundreds of years after his crusifiction (spelling!)?

How did the authors know that that was exactly what happened? Once again, I don't know for sure when the bible was written, but I'm assuming it was many many years after Jesus died....

Just something that bothers me.

Oh and another thing, once again correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there a passage somewhere in the bible that talks about how when Jesus was born the dates were ripe? Then how can Jesus have been born in December...dates aren't ripe in december, are they?

(hey that dates being ripe thing could have been something stupid I heard a long time ago, I honestly don't know if it's in the Bible).

It seems a bit far-fetched to me that Jesus was born on Christmas day, and then died at Easter. I mean what are the chances of that?? :blink:

I hope nobody went to all the trouble to get him any easter eggs that year... :frusty:

[MagicNakor]

The oldest surviving copy of the New Testament has been dated around 125 AD, however there are other writings, generally letters, earlier than that (70 AD? I'd have to double-check) referencing passages and the like, which is enough evidence to say that it was written around, or before, that time.

Jesus was born in spring or autumn...there's a bit of contention on which it was. The reason for the December 25th date is due to the popularity of Saturnalia with the pagans.

:shuriken:

[thewizeard]

It seems a bit far-fetched to me that Jesus was born on Christmas day, and then died at Easter. I mean what are the chances of that?? :blink:

must be really difficult dying on day that changes every year ..

@ human_pet ..Thanks for you explanation....I shall read it ..and reply to it a little later..
While you wait ... Do you think that the all the "rules", that applied to people living nearly 1300 to 2000 years ago, still apply to people in living "modern" times ?

[Filliz]

The oldest surviving copy of the New Testament has been dated around 125 AD, however there are other writings, generally letters, earlier than that (70 AD? I'd have to double-check) referencing passages and the like, which is enough evidence to say that it was written around, or before, that time.

Aren't the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' concidered to be the "first" bible.

From what I've read and heard about it, it is more credible than the bible itself.

[thewizeard]

In the original english too. Noice.

You hit the nail on the head Thor SnnY.. :)


The language is only a few hundred years old... do you understand it? I'm sure our kids don't. How old is the Koran? The words it was originally written in, has remained unchanged for 1300+ years, I am led to believe.

To give an example, take the word "nice". It's meaning has changed over the years and used to mean exactly the opposite.

The message of Jesus has not changed..I am sure he asked us to love our fellow men and women and not treat them as "infidels" If they happen to believe in , lets say Quetzalcoatl.

So a prophet appears 700 years later and says.. it's now OK to cut off heads and arms, stone women for adultery, fly aeroplanes into buildings and please,.... make sure they are innocent people while you are doing it... all in the name of a God called Allah?


This Allah is a different God than the One to whom Jesus was refering....

[MagicNakor]

The Dead Sea Scrolls are (if I'm recalling correctly...it's kind of late and I'm rather tired) the bulk of the Old Testament.

:shuriken:

[JPaul]

Bible = Old Testament + New Testament.

Old Testament = Before Christ, but speaks of his coming.

New Testament = Life and Teachings of Christ.

To Catholics the really important parts are the Gospels (New Testament), written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John and the Epistles, which are basically letters to various peoples. The Gospels are effectively their versions of what Christ did, said and taught. The Epistles are more like interpretations of theological points.

Ripening dates are considered to be of minor importance.

[thewizeard]

I have a question....who wrote the first version/copy of the Bible? And when was it written, keyword when? Is it plausible (ok I'm assuming, I'm not making any real statements SO PLEASE PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong which I probably am) that a person (or group of people) wrote about Jesus and whatnot hundreds of years after his crusifiction (spelling!)?

How did the authors know that that was exactly what happened? Once again, I don't know for sure when the bible was written, but I'm assuming it was many many years after Jesus died....

Just something that bothers me.

Oh and another thing, once again correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there a passage somewhere in the bible that talks about how when Jesus was born the dates were ripe? Then how can Jesus have been born in December...dates aren't ripe in december, are they?

(hey that dates being ripe thing could have been something stupid I heard a long time ago, I honestly don't know if it's in the Bible).



The Holy Scriptures — The Tanakh


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/jpstoc.html