The best British county

[Cheese]

I've always liked Middlesex, Essex and Kent because they sound rude.

Edit: Can some kindly mod change this to "The best English county" please.

[enoughfakefiles]

Scunthorpe :pinch:

I know it's not a county but it`s got a rude word in it

[Cheese]

Scunthorpe :pinch:

I know it's not a county but it`s got a rude word in it
That reminds me of a joke.

What three football teams have a rude name in their name?

Scunthorpe, Arsenal and Manchester fucking United.

[JPaul]

I've always liked Middlesex, Essex and Kent because they sound rude.

Edit: Can some kindly mod change this to "The best English county" please.
Racist

[Cheese]

I've always liked Middlesex, Essex and Kent because they sound rude.

Edit: Can some kindly mod change this to "The best English county" please. Racist

I just thought it was a little unfair to the Welsh who don't have towns or counties, just mining villages.

[Carcinus]

Wales is an English county. :ph34r:

[JPaul]

Wales is an English county. :ph34r:
Nah, it's just a wee bit of England, without vowels.

[Carcinus]

Wales is an English county. :ph34r:
Nah, it's just a wee bit of England, without vowels.

Wales is England's piss? :O

Racist!

[JPaul]

Nah, it's just a wee bit of England, without vowels.

Wales is England's piss :O

Racist!
What are you talking about, Nazi.

[Mr. Mulder]

Devon ftw :01:

[maebach]

Is Westminister a county? if it is, then westminister, or hounslow.

[Cheese]

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/map_uk_1.shtml

[ziggyjuarez]

cumberland

[TheRealDave]

durham ftw! :D

[sArA]

Cumbria

[Guillaume]

Kent because they sound rude.
No, we don't.

Oh wait, you mean the names, right?

[Proper Bo]

North Tyneside:smilie4:

and/or Northumberland

[DorisInsinuate]

Berkshire :01:

[Lilmiss]

Scratchy Bottom, Dorset. :naughty:
I know it's not a county, just wanted to add it.

Has anyone been to Whitby before?

[peat moss]

Cumberland , because of Mary Port ,Carlyle and the Lake Dist . :)

[Carcinus]

Devon ftw :01:

Devon's shite. Full of Pikeys and Janners and sheep.

Nice beaches though.

[JPaul]

Devon ftw :01:

Devon's shite. Full of Pikeys and Janners and sheep.

Nine beaches though.
Feck, that's a lot of beaches. Are you quite sure.

[Carcinus]

Devon's shite. Full of Pikeys and Janners and sheep.

Nine beaches though.
Feck, that's a lot of beaches. Are you quite sure.

Ha. Didn't work. I might have been slightly inebriated when I wrote that but I takes my beaches seriously....

There's a few more than nine! :lol:

[JPaul]

Feck, that's a lot of beaches. Are you quite sure.

Ha. Didn't work. I might have been slightly inebriated when I wrote that but I takes my beaches seriously....


Liar, liar, pants on fire. :P

You looked and I'm not having it otherwise. :no2:

[manker]

Wales is an English county. :ph34r:
Nah, it's just a wee bit of England, without vowels.I spit on Welsh pronounciation.


Seriously, we all do.

[Carcinus]

I didn't look!

At that point I was concentrating so hard on typing that I couldn't have got it wrong.

You Beach!

[JPaul]

Nah, it's just a wee bit of England, without vowels.I spit on Welsh pronounciation.


Seriously, we all do.
yts hrdlyy srprysyng.

[JPaul]

I didn't look!

At that point I was concentrating so hard on typing that I couldn't have got it wrong.

You Beach!
Are you the only person in the World whose typing becomes more accriate when you are pished.

[Carcinus]

I just concentrate really hard because I'm aware I get finger-aids when I've had a tipple. I don't like seeing perma-proof of my drunkeness upon awakening.

[JPaul]

I don't like seeing perma-proof of my drunkeness upon awakening.
You mean like when you've thrown up into your tool bag and your trowel is all rusty.

[Carcinus]

I managed to buy bread and peanut butter on the way home last night in a startling moment of clarity, assessing the severity of my forthcoming hangover, and concluding that a swath of toast would be welcome in the morning.

[Cheese]

I went to the shop and bought more beer. :dabs:

[JPaul]

I managed to buy bread and peanut butter on the way home last night in a startling moment of clarity, assessing the severity of my forthcoming hangover, and concluding that a swath of toast would be welcome in the morning.
Peanut Butter as a hangover cure. :sick:

People like you disgust me, you are beneath contempt.

[JPaul]

I went to the shop and bought more beer. :dabs:
More beer, that's the best kind.

I admire people like you, you are to be exalted.

In fact I'll go and exalt you now.

[Carcinus]

I managed to buy bread and peanut butter on the way home last night in a startling moment of clarity, assessing the severity of my forthcoming hangover, and concluding that a swath of toast would be welcome in the morning.
Peanut Butter as a hangover cure. :sick:

People like you disgust me, you are beneath contempt.

Peanut butter is great. As is creamcheese and marmite all mixed up on toast, which is what I'm eating now.

@cheese. Have you checked the footy scores?

[Cheese]

@cheese. Have you checked the footy scores?
I forgot real football existed for a few hours then. Thanks for reminding me. :dabs:

[JPaul]

Peanut Butter as a hangover cure. :sick:

People like you disgust me, you are beneath contempt.
As is creamcheese and marmite all mixed up on toast, which is what I'm eating now.


Have you perhaps used one of those eggs you've been trying to sell in the Drawing Room.

[Gripper]

Kent FTW

[Proper Bo]

@cheese. Have you checked the footy scores?
I forgot real football existed for a few hours then. Thanks for reminding me. :dabs:
i was having lunch in a place just across the road from the stadium, who needs radio commentary:snooty:

[Spider_dude]

i see newcastle won then

[JPaul]

Spoiler above

[Proper Bo]

i see newcastle won then

ja FTW:01:

[Skweeky1]

Hold on, I want to enter Lanarkshire. It's got Cumbernauld in it which apparently has the ugliest shopping centre in the UK

[DorisInsinuate]

The Cascades in Portsmouth is the shittest shopping centre I've ever been to.

[Skweeky1]

Yeah, but this one was actually on the tele.

[Carcinus]

The Cascades in Portsmouth is the shittest shopping centre I've ever been to.

Plymouth is so shit that a proper shopping centre is only just being built. They did try a few years back, and came up with something so shit that only pikey stores like Wilkos and Peacocks inhabited it. The new one looks like it's going to be dressed-up glitter coated shit, flashy but still fundamentally shit.

[Skweeky1]

I'm opening a thread called' terrible shopping centres'

We'll have a vote later on as to which one is the crappiest.

[Barbarossa]

I'd have to vote for Sussex, because it's where I live.

West is best, of course :)

[meirionwyllt]

Racist

I just thought it was a little unfair to the Welsh who don't have towns or counties, just mining villages.
Oi cheesebreath

No towns or counties in Wales?

Stange that... I could've sworn someone told me once that the place I've been living in for 20 yesrs of my life is indeed a town. Oh well, I see that you are vastly well travelled in Wales so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

So if I ever want any info on British history/geography, I'll remember that you are the one who knows. You know, things like that WE were here first, and stuff like that WE are the British not you (the word Britain comes from the Celtic word Brython), and that despite this we still burn the Union Jack because we would rather have nothing to do with you... So this whole thread is rather farcical, don't you think?

[Barbarossa]

I just thought it was a little unfair to the Welsh who don't have towns or counties, just mining villages.
Oi cheesebreath

No towns or counties in Wales?

Stange that... I could've sworn someone told me once that the place I've been living in for 20 yesrs of my life is indeed a town. Oh well, I see that you are vastly well travelled in Wales so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

So if I ever want any info on British history/geography, I'll remember that you are the one who knows. You know, things like that WE were here first, and stuff like that WE are the British not you (the word Britain comes from the Celtic word Brython), and that despite this we still burn the Union Jack because we would rather have nothing to do with you... So this whole thread is rather farcical, don't you think?

Cracking second post :01:

You're not a sugar-miner by any chance, are you? :unsure:

[Snee]

A sense of humour is a wonderful thing.

[manker]

I just thought it was a little unfair to the Welsh who don't have towns or counties, just mining villages.
Oi cheesebreath

No towns or counties in Wales?

Stange that... I could've sworn someone told me once that the place I've been living in for 20 yesrs of my life is indeed a town. Oh well, I see that you are vastly well travelled in Wales so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

So if I ever want any info on British history/geography, I'll remember that you are the one who knows. You know, things like that WE were here first, and stuff like that WE are the British not you (the word Britain comes from the Celtic word Brython), and that despite this we still burn the Union Jack because we would rather have nothing to do with you... So this whole thread is rather farcical, don't you think?Have a spell, flowe.

It's just some good natured banter, I assure you that altho' I'm one of only a handful of Welsh people who frequent this board, I give as good as I get.

Which part of Wales are you from? The nice part or the part where the cottage burning mentalists live.

[Cheese]

Shit, I didn't mean to upset any militant cottage-burning Welshmen. I'll probably wake up tomorrow with a sheep's head next to me. :(

[manker]

Shit, I didn't mean to upset any militant cottage-burning Welshmen. I'll probably wake up tomorrow with a sheep's head next to me. :(I had one of those ram-a-grams for my 21st :happy:

[Cheese]

For my 21st we threw rocks at the Welsh, Scottish and Irish peasants of my town from our huge Ivory Tower.

[Carcinus]

I just thought it was a little unfair to the Welsh who don't have towns or counties, just mining villages.
Oi cheesebreath

No towns or counties in Wales?

Stange that... I could've sworn someone told me once that the place I've been living in for 20 yesrs of my life is indeed a town. Oh well, I see that you are vastly well travelled in Wales so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

So if I ever want any info on British history/geography, I'll remember that you are the one who knows. You know, things like that WE were here first, and stuff like that WE are the British not you (the word Britain comes from the Celtic word Brython), and that despite this we still burn the Union Jack because we would rather have nothing to do with you... So this whole thread is rather farcical, don't you think?


Llyn? :O

Burning the Union Jack is a little harsher than some friendly banter between people who know where the boundries of lighthearted teasing in recognition of our differences lay. Funnily enough though, the worst racism I have ever encountered in my life, as a mostly Greek woman with a coloured Stepfather, Niece and Nephew, was in North Wales, because of my English accent.

Even a Welsh surname didn't make any difference. :ermm:

[Spider_dude]

lumsden isn't welsh?

[Cheese]

Oi cheesebreath

No towns or counties in Wales?

Stange that... I could've sworn someone told me once that the place I've been living in for 20 yesrs of my life is indeed a town. Oh well, I see that you are vastly well travelled in Wales so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

So if I ever want any info on British history/geography, I'll remember that you are the one who knows. You know, things like that WE were here first, and stuff like that WE are the British not you (the word Britain comes from the Celtic word Brython), and that despite this we still burn the Union Jack because we would rather have nothing to do with you... So this whole thread is rather farcical, don't you think?

Llyn? :O

Burning the Union Jack is a little harsher than some friendly banter between people who know where the boundries of lighthearted teasing in recognition of our differences lay. Funnily enough though, the worst racism I have ever encountered in my life, as a mostly Greek woman with a coloured Stepfather, Niece and Nephew, was in North Wales, because of my English accent.

Even a Welsh surname didn't make any difference. :ermm:

Shut it, Xena.

[Mr JP Fugley]

lumsden isn't welsh?

Who said he was. :blink:

[Carcinus]

Llyn? :O

Burning the Union Jack is a little harsher than some friendly banter between people who know where the boundries of lighthearted teasing in recognition of our differences lay. Funnily enough though, the worst racism I have ever encountered in my life, as a mostly Greek woman with a coloured Stepfather, Niece and Nephew, was in North Wales, because of my English accent.

Even a Welsh surname didn't make any difference. :ermm:

Shut it, Xena.

Big ginger gay-tard.

[manker]

Oi cheesebreath

No towns or counties in Wales?

Stange that... I could've sworn someone told me once that the place I've been living in for 20 yesrs of my life is indeed a town. Oh well, I see that you are vastly well travelled in Wales so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

So if I ever want any info on British history/geography, I'll remember that you are the one who knows. You know, things like that WE were here first, and stuff like that WE are the British not you (the word Britain comes from the Celtic word Brython), and that despite this we still burn the Union Jack because we would rather have nothing to do with you... So this whole thread is rather farcical, don't you think?


Llyn? :O

Burning the Union Jack is a little harsher than some friendly banter between people who know where the boundries of lighthearted teasing in recognition of our differences lay. Funnily enough though, the worst racism I have ever encountered in my life, as a mostly Greek woman with a coloured Stepfather, Niece and Nephew, was in North Wales, because of my English accent.

Even a Welsh surname didn't make any difference. :ermm:I've been to North Wales a few times - out of duty - it was where a girl I met on holiday lived and I had to drive there to shag her. She was rather lovely, aesthetically.

Terrible place, they all talk like scousers. If JP and spd were ever to venture there, they would certainly need to put an extra padlock on their money-belt to feel safe.

This was Clwyd, maybe in Gwynedd they speak with a Welsh accent but people from N. Wales are generally a bit backward and mental - so I've never gone there to find out.

[Carcinus]

Llyn? :O

Burning the Union Jack is a little harsher than some friendly banter between people who know where the boundries of lighthearted teasing in recognition of our differences lay. Funnily enough though, the worst racism I have ever encountered in my life, as a mostly Greek woman with a coloured Stepfather, Niece and Nephew, was in North Wales, because of my English accent.

Even a Welsh surname didn't make any difference. :ermm:I've been to North Wales a few times - out of duty - it was where a girl I met on holiday lived and I had to drive there to shag her. She was rather lovely, aesthetically.

Terrible place, they all talk like scousers. If JP and spd were ever to venture there, they would certainly need to put an extra padlock on their money-belt to feel safe.

This was Clwyd, maybe in Gwynedd they speak with a Welsh accent but people from N. Wales are generally a bit backward and mental - so I've never gone there to find out.

I spent a while around Anglesey and Bangor. I've never really been the same since. :fear:

[manker]

I think I remember you telling me that now :schnauz:


===

Btw, I was going to reply in a different thread but here will do:
The photos were pretty shit as I have never used a camera beforeDon't drive, phobia about mobile phones, no TV, never used a camera before ... .

Not only is he a big ginger gay-tard, but the evidence points to Amish heritage :smilie4:

[DorisInsinuate]

Ha, I bet that twat doesn't even know how to use the internet.

[JPaul]

Ha, I bet that twat doesn't even know how to use the internet.
http://thecia.com.au/reviews/j/images/jay-and-silent-bob-strike-back-4.jpg

[Santa]

Somerset is quaint

[Gripper]

I know I vote d for Kunt already,but I am noew voting for Cornishwall,it's run by royalty don't ya know :dabs:

[py3m4n]

I've always liked Middlesex, Essex and Kent because they sound rude.

Edit: Can some kindly mod change this to "The best English county" please.


What about Scotland and Ireland (as you mentioned Wales already) do they not fit in to the original post they have counties too.

Pisses me off sometimes how some English people think they are the only Country in the U.K.

[Cheese]

Wow, I'm catching me quite a few noobs with that rod. :rod:

[Chewie]

Shit, I didn't mean to upset any militant cottage-burning Welshmen. I'll probably wake up tomorrow with a sheep's head next to me. :(
Do I take it that you'd be disappointed that the 'interesting' part of the sheep is missing?:naughty:

As for the bestest county, it's gotta be Surrey. Not that over-wealthed west end of it; I mean the gritty bit over near Kunt.
Sussex ain't bad (East & West) if you can put up with all the pensioners... my old girl lives in a 'residential caravan' (are you calling her a pikey?) near Chichester; very nice little village but full of over-60s.

[Santa]

Cheddar is deffinetly not sexually inspirational

[Gripper]

Cheddar is deffinetly not sexually inspirational
but it is lovely on toast,with worcestershire sauce on :)

[JPaul]

Cheddar is deffinetly not sexually inspirational
but it is lovely on toast,with worcestershire sauce on :)
Black Pepper, freshly ground

[Santa]

within labulie?

[Lilmiss]

Cheddar is deffinetly not sexually inspirational
but it is lovely on toast,with worcestershire sauce on :)


I had it on me chips the day.
Saturated in half bottle of vinegar, of course. :happy:

[meirionwyllt]

Ladies and Gentlemen

OK OK, I feel that I have made my point, so I will lower my defences, and leave the politics in favour of more light-hearted chit-chat...

As for the best british county, after my own area I would have to say that the Scottish county of Inverness is the most majestic in natural beauty.

Don't think I'm being anti-English again, because I've been to the majority of English counties along the years, but none of them really stand out as being something special. For a 'best county' I mainly go for the natural geography, not so much the man-made elements.

Inverness-shire is home of the Isle of Skye and Ben Nevis (the view up there is amazing!), not to mention the A87 from Fort William to the end of Skye, the most breath-taking stretch of road I've ever been on. If anyone fancies a road trip anywhere, it's highly recommended.

Anyone else know what I'm on about here?

[GepperRankins]

Your search - welsh people burning union flag - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

* Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
* Try different keywords.
* Try more general keywords.
* Try fewer keywords.

:dabs:

[Barbarossa]

Inverness-shire is home of the Isle of Skye and Ben Nevis (the view up there is amazing!), not to mention the A87 from Fort William to the end of Skye, the most breath-taking stretch of road I've ever been on. If anyone fancies a road trip anywhere, it's highly recommended.

Anyone else know what I'm on about here?

I went up Ben Nevis once.

It was foggy, and then it hailed a bit. This was in May. I was most disappointed. :dabs:

[manker]

OK OK, I feel that I have made my point,If I recall, your point was that there are, in fact, towns and counties in Wales. Most of us were pretty much aware of that already.

However, you seemed to be under the misapprehension that Welsh people don't want anything to do with the English people. Which seems odd as I'm sure there was a referendum back when I was too young to vote and we decided to stay part of the UK.

I'm also curious as to why you asserted that 'Britain' is a Celtic word, as if it backed up your (correct) assertion that we were here first. It is debatable whether 'Britain' is a derivative of Celtic word or not, but if it was, then it is a reference to what the Celtic people called our island.

There is little evidence of the Celtic people migrating to the UK - indeed, our own culture and language probably pre-dates that of the true Celtic people ... altho' we did copy them a lot. It is much more likely that the people that the Romans pushed to the outer reaches of the British Isles when they invaded were original Britons. Most of whom had land in modern day England.

:dabs:

[Buffalo]

Norfolk

A Beautiful coastline, A mix of Sand dune beaches, high Cliffs in the middle of the Norfolk coastline and ending up with fantastic marshes.
Because of the variation of our coastline it habitats a vast range wildlife & sealife, MAFF "DEFRA" want's the norfolk coastline made into a no fishing zone, it's already a Biosphere Reserve.

Would not move, it's a great place to live.

[DorisInsinuate]

Glag.

I worked for DEFRA for a bit. I'm hoping bird AiDs comes to England, so I can a summer job there again. Also so a bunch of gits will die.

[Buffalo]

Nice one Doris,
I had a major run in with MAFF in 2000, I could not achieve my quota, so they revoked my Licence on my fishing vessel.
are you operator 159? ... she was nice and helpful

[DorisInsinuate]

No, but I called up a farmer and ended up pissing him off. I don't think karma has forgiven me for that.

[meirionwyllt]

I'm sorry but I'll have to pick you up on almost every thing you said there...



However, you seemed to be under the misapprehension that Welsh people don't want anything to do with the English people. Which seems odd as I'm sure there was a referendum back when I was too young to vote and we decided to stay part of the UK.

It depends which ones you speak to. True we did vote quite convincingly against devolution in 1979 but I feel it is only now that us Welsh are starting to nurture self-belief. The iron fist of previous Tory goverments have had such a tight grip on our country that it has made us insitutionalised, and has convinced many Welsh people that we could not govern ourselves - which is nonsense since there are many small countries in Europe that have boomed (relatively speaking) since gaining independence.

Besides, there's the language issue - this is a perfect example of English oppression. Being Welsh I assume you've heard of the "Welsh Not" - if you were English I would feel as though I'd have to explain it to you, since the English establishment have well and truly brushed that under the carpet. Most Welsh speakers I know (and every Scottish and Irish person I've met) hate the establishment and really don't want anything to do with it, or its monarchy (but that's another story).


I'm also curious as to why you asserted that 'Britain' is a Celtic word, as if it backed up your (correct) assertion that we were here first. It is debatable whether 'Britain' is a derivative of Celtic word or not, but if it was, then it is a reference to what the Celtic people called our island.

Wel it's quite simple really - along the ages (pre-Roman), the Celts became two divisions, Brythoneg (an ancestor of the Welsh language) and Goideleg (out of which Gaelic has come). These were names that one division used to descbribe the other, so Brython was a name for someone speaking Brythoneg, which has now evolved and split up into Welsh, Cornish and Breton (spoken in Brittany) so the fact that the Romans came here, noticed the word Brython and decided to call the island Brittania for a few hundred years until they buggered off again, bears little relevance to the argument.


There is little evidence of the Celtic people migrating to the UK - indeed, our own culture and language probably pre-dates that of the true Celtic people ... altho' we did copy them a lot. It is much more likely that the people that the Romans pushed to the outer reaches of the British Isles when they invaded were original Britons. Most of whom had land in modern day England.

You're not making sense - the "original Britons" WERE Celtic - one was a branch off of the other. And as for there not being much evidence of Celtic migration, this island is awash with remnants of their existance here, such as the myriad of burial mounds, stone circles, and tomb stones, all characteristic of the Celtic ways.



I know that this must be really boring for those of you who don't care, and for this I apologise - I tried to end this in my last post.

[Carcinus]

Ladies and Gentlemen

OK OK, I feel that I have made my point, so I will lower my defences, and leave the politics in favour of more light-hearted chit-chat...

As for the best british county, after my own area I would have to say that the Scottish county of Inverness is the most majestic in natural beauty.

Don't think I'm being anti-English again, because I've been to the majority of English counties along the years, but none of them really stand out as being something special. For a 'best county' I mainly go for the natural geography, not so much the man-made elements.

Inverness-shire is home of the Isle of Skye and Ben Nevis (the view up there is amazing!), not to mention the A87 from Fort William to the end of Skye, the most breath-taking stretch of road I've ever been on. If anyone fancies a road trip anywhere, it's highly recommended.

Anyone else know what I'm on about here?

Although the landscape in Devon and Cornwall might not be as majestic on as large a scale as Scotland, I defy anyone to say it these counties are not, in places, as beautiful. The dramatic North Cornish coast in summer, the rolling hills of the South Hams, the bleak beauty of Dartmoor or Bodmin, all winners in my book. Plus we've Trago Mills.

[Carcinus]

Glag.

I worked for DEFRA for a bit. I'm hoping bird AiDs comes to England, so I can get a summer job there again. Also so a bunch of gits will die.

I have had many dealings with Defra on many occaisions and I couldn't agree more.

[Buffalo]

This board is full with ex uk gov employees.

Defra are more chilled out, unlike MAFF, Thugs in black suits!

[Carcinus]

This board is full with ex uk gov employees.

Defra are more chilled out, unlike MAFF, Thugs in black suits!


There's good eggs and bad eggs working for Defra. Everywhere has it's fair share of idiots.

I've met some pretty evil fishermen too in my most recent line of work. There was one man in Lowestoft who was a spectacularly unpleasant chap. :blink:

[JPaul]

(and every Scottish and Irish person I've met) hate the establishment and really don't want anything to do with it, or its monarchy (but that's another story).


I don't know about the rest of your post, but I suspect you have been rather selective in the Scottish and Irish people you have spoken to with regard to whether we hate the "establishment", or it's "monarchy".

Taking the North of Ireland as an example, I think it's true to say that the majority of the population are loyalists / monarchist. Hence the Government they select for themselves, both as their Westminster MPs and in their Assembly.

Neither have I been aware any great upsurge in calls for independance or republicanism in Scotland. However you may be more aware of that than I.

[manker]

I'm sorry but I'll have to pick you up on almost every thing you said there...




It depends which ones you speak to. True we did vote quite convincingly against devolution in 1979 but I feel it is only now that us Welsh are starting to nurture self-belief. The iron fist of previous Tory goverments have had such a tight grip on our country that it has made us insitutionalised, and has convinced many Welsh people that we could not govern ourselves - which is nonsense since there are many small countries in Europe that have boomed (relatively speaking) since gaining independence.

Besides, there's the language issue - this is a perfect example of English oppression. Being Welsh I assume you've heard of the "Welsh Not" - if you were English I would feel as though I'd have to explain it to you, since the English establishment have well and truly brushed that under the carpet. Most Welsh speakers I know (and every Scottish and Irish person I've met) hate the establishment and really don't want anything to do with it, or its monarchy (but that's another story).


I'm also curious as to why you asserted that 'Britain' is a Celtic word, as if it backed up your (correct) assertion that we were here first. It is debatable whether 'Britain' is a derivative of Celtic word or not, but if it was, then it is a reference to what the Celtic people called our island.

Wel it's quite simple really - along the ages (pre-Roman), the Celts became two divisions, Brythoneg (an ancestor of the Welsh language) and Goideleg (out of which Gaelic has come). These were names that one division used to descbribe the other, so Brython was a name for someone speaking Brythoneg, which has now evolved and split up into Welsh, Cornish and Breton (spoken in Brittany) so the fact that the Romans came here, noticed the word Brython and decided to call the island Brittania for a few hundred years until they buggered off again, bears little relevance to the argument.


There is little evidence of the Celtic people migrating to the UK - indeed, our own culture and language probably pre-dates that of the true Celtic people ... altho' we did copy them a lot. It is much more likely that the people that the Romans pushed to the outer reaches of the British Isles when they invaded were original Britons. Most of whom had land in modern day England.

You're not making sense - the "original Britons" WERE Celtic - one was a branch off of the other. And as for there not being much evidence of Celtic migration, this island is awash with remnants of their existance here, such as the myriad of burial mounds, stone circles, and tomb stones, all characteristic of the Celtic ways.



I know that this must be really boring for those of you who don't care, and for this I apologise - I tried to end this in my last post.Seriously, I think you might have brain aids.

I know for a fact that what I said earlier was right and if you'tr tryig to refute it, then braain aids is the obvious cause.

Not that I can rekmemnber what I said earler but it was right. FDact.

[JPaul]

I'm sorry but I'll have to pick you up on almost every thing you said there...




It depends which ones you speak to. True we did vote quite convincingly against devolution in 1979 but I feel it is only now that us Welsh are starting to nurture self-belief. The iron fist of previous Tory goverments have had such a tight grip on our country that it has made us insitutionalised, and has convinced many Welsh people that we could not govern ourselves - which is nonsense since there are many small countries in Europe that have boomed (relatively speaking) since gaining independence.

Besides, there's the language issue - this is a perfect example of English oppression. Being Welsh I assume you've heard of the "Welsh Not" - if you were English I would feel as though I'd have to explain it to you, since the English establishment have well and truly brushed that under the carpet. Most Welsh speakers I know (and every Scottish and Irish person I've met) hate the establishment and really don't want anything to do with it, or its monarchy (but that's another story).



Wel it's quite simple really - along the ages (pre-Roman), the Celts became two divisions, Brythoneg (an ancestor of the Welsh language) and Goideleg (out of which Gaelic has come). These were names that one division used to descbribe the other, so Brython was a name for someone speaking Brythoneg, which has now evolved and split up into Welsh, Cornish and Breton (spoken in Brittany) so the fact that the Romans came here, noticed the word Brython and decided to call the island Brittania for a few hundred years until they buggered off again, bears little relevance to the argument.


There is little evidence of the Celtic people migrating to the UK - indeed, our own culture and language probably pre-dates that of the true Celtic people ... altho' we did copy them a lot. It is much more likely that the people that the Romans pushed to the outer reaches of the British Isles when they invaded were original Britons. Most of whom had land in modern day England.

You're not making sense - the "original Britons" WERE Celtic - one was a branch off of the other. And as for there not being much evidence of Celtic migration, this island is awash with remnants of their existance here, such as the myriad of burial mounds, stone circles, and tomb stones, all characteristic of the Celtic ways.



I know that this must be really boring for those of you who don't care, and for this I apologise - I tried to end this in my last post.Seriously, I think you might have brain aids.

I know for a fact that what I said earlier was right and if you'tr tryig to refute it, then braain aids is the obvious cause.

Not that I can rekmemnber what I said earler but it was right. FDact.


Babycham is a great slave, but a poor master.

[NikkiD]

Seriously, I think you might have brain aids.

I know for a fact that what I said earlier was right and if you'tr tryig to refute it, then braain aids is the obvious cause.

Not that I can rekmemnber what I said earler but it was right. FDact.

I don't know why but I can't stop giggling at that.

[enoughfakefiles]

Seriously, I think you might have brain aids.

I know for a fact that what I said earlier was right and if you'tr tryig to refute it, then braain aids is the obvious cause.

Not that I can rekmemnber what I said earler but it was right. FDact.

I don't know why but I can't stop giggling at that.

Manker won't be in the morning. Look at at all the grammer mistakes :pinch:

[meirionwyllt]

Seriously, I think you might have brain aids.

I know for a fact that what I said earlier was right and if you'tr tryig to refute it, then braain aids is the obvious cause.

Not that I can rekmemnber what I said earler but it was right. FDact.

Hmm, many typing errors in the above passage. I would suggest a diagnosis of one's own problems before offering others your medicinary wisdom.

You disappoint me. I thought we were having a debate here - I refuse to lower myself to your infantile level of humour.

Besides, how can you say that events of thousands of years ago are "FDact"? We do not have fact to support my claim or yours, we only have evidence and expert advice from historians/archeologists.


Now, there goes my 5 posts - in a few days I can post on the Invites request thread. Good little banter there!! Cheers.

[Cheese]

Why do all my threads turn into arguments about Welsh history? :(

[manker]

Seriously, I think you might have brain aids.

I know for a fact that what I said earlier was right and if you'tr tryig to refute it, then braain aids is the obvious cause.

Not that I can rekmemnber what I said earler but it was right. FDact.

Hmm, many typing errors in the above passage. I would suggest a diagnosis of one's own problems before offering others your medicinary wisdom.

You disappoint me. I thought we were having a debate here - I refuse to lower myself to your infantile level of humour.

Besides, how can you say that events of thousands of years ago are "FDact"? We do not have fact to support my claim or yours, we only have evidence and expert advice from historians/archeologists.I was drunk, dick 'ed.

Your point of view differs to mine - my understanding of history is that the Celts are a continental race of ancient people that did not migrate to our shores. This view is a fairly modern one and has been written about extensively over the past ten years or so.

The evidence of which you speak is circumstantial at best, the art and traditions detailed in Welsh history were copies of true Celtic art.

I've noticed many older Welshmen (My Dad, for example) and women really don't like this POV - preferring the romantic cliche of being descendents of a Celtic race. Sadly, according to me and eminant archaeologists such as Richard Rudgley, this isn't the case.

If you prefer to dwell upon past historical presumptions, that is a matter for you - I'd rather look at the evidence (or lack of, concerning Celtic settlements in Wales) and make my own mind up.

[manker]

Why do all my threads turn into arguments about Welsh history? :(Shut it, Pennycomequick boy :dry:

[JPaul]

Now, there goes my 5 posts - in a few days I can post on the Invites request thread. Good little banter there!! Cheers.

Good luck getting the invites and thanks for all you have contributed to this forum.

[Cheese]

Why do all my threads turn into arguments about Welsh history? :(Shut it, Pennycomequick boy :dry:

:lol: - I vaguely remember that argument, something about Pennycomequick being an ancient Welsh settlement.

[manker]

Shut it, Pennycomequick boy :dry:

:lol: - I vaguely remember that argument, something about Pennycomequick being an ancient Welsh settlement.
Yeah, I think I got pwned by Billy :dabs:

[JPaul]

:lol: - I vaguely remember that argument, something about Pennycomequick being an ancient Welsh settlement.
Yeah, I think I got pwned by Billy :dabs:
You'll have to narrow it down more than that.

[manker]

Yeah, I think I got pwned by Billy :dabs:
You'll have to narrow it down more than that.Feck awf :lol:

Billy (as decaftar) said that 'Pennycomequick' was a Welsh word, I said feck off, Billy said nothing but then Chebus googled and found that on some obscure etymology site, 'Pennycome' is Welsh for 'head of the valley'.

Chebus :dabs:

The thread has now been deleted - presumably because it sullied my reputation :snooty:

[Biggles]

If I might throw my tuppence in

"Celtic" is a convenient short hand for the Western peoples of Europe - the Galcians, Bretons, Cornish, Irish, Scots and Welsh. Recent DNA studies have suggested a common ancestory that is remarkably old for this area and these people.

The La Tene iron age culture of central Europe encapsulates a very particular artistic and cultural style which is certainly picked up in "Celtic" work of the same period. However, this does not mean that these Western areas were colonised by the La Tene culture people. The evidence is to the contrary and it is now generally considered that the builders of the stone megaliths and burial tombs like Maeshowe and Newgrange went on uninterupted to become the "Celtic" peoples of the Western fringes who traded and interacted with mainland Europe. Irish mythology talks about the Dana coming from Galacia to Ireland and it seems probable that the peoples that settled these areas after the ice age were from very old European stock. Europe was subject to many ravages and movements of people. The Western fringes became the last outpost of La Tene art and culture and many would argue defined it, making it their own.

The term Celts was coined by the ancient Greeks and is unlikely to be a term these people used themselves. The Romans called the Caledonians Picts but records suggest they called themselves the Cruithne or the Prydyn (where Briton comes from)

Least that is my view :)

[Cheese]

You'll have to narrow it down more than that.Feck awf :lol:

Billy (as decaftar) said that 'Pennycomequick' was a Welsh word, I said feck off, Billy said nothing but then Chebus googled and found that on some obscure etymology site, 'Pennycome' is Welsh for 'head of the valley'.

Chebus :dabs:

The thread has now been deleted - presumably because it sullied my reputation :snooty:
I find that Google is better for searching for older threads (http://www.filesharingtalk.com/vb3/t80497.html), don't tell Skizo I said that though.

[JPaul]

If I might throw my tuppence in

"Celtic" is a convenient short hand for the Western peoples of Europe - the Galcians, Bretons, Cornish, Irish, Scots and Welsh. Recent DNA studies have suggested a common ancestory that is remarkably old for this area and these people.

The La Tene iron age culture of central Europe encapsulates a very particular artistic and cultural style which is certainly picked up in "Celtic" work of the same period. However, this does not mean that these Western areas were colonised by the La Tene culture people. The evidence is to the contrary and it is now generally considered that the builders of the stone megaliths and burial tombs like Maeshowe and Newgrange went on uninterupted to become the "Celtic" peoples of the Western fringes who traded and interacted with mainland Europe. Irish mythology talks about the Dana coming from Galacia to Ireland and it seems probable that the peoples that settled these areas after the ice age were from very old European stock. Europe was subject to many ravages and movements of people. The Western fringes became the last outpost of La Tene art and culture and many would argue defined it, making it their own.

The term Celts was coined by the ancient Greeks and is unlikely to be a term these people used themselves. The Romans called the Caledonians Picts but records suggest they called themselves the Cruithne or the Prydyn (where Briton comes from)

Least that is my view :)


Having read that with great interest - who's right.

[meirionwyllt]

(and every Scottish and Irish person I've met) hate the establishment and really don't want anything to do with it, or its monarchy (but that's another story).


I don't know about the rest of your post, but I suspect you have been rather selective in the Scottish and Irish people you have spoken to with regard to whether we hate the "establishment", or it's "monarchy".

Taking the North of Ireland as an example, I think it's true to say that the majority of the population are loyalists / monarchist. Hence the Government they select for themselves, both as their Westminster MPs and in their Assembly.

Neither have I been aware any great upsurge in calls for independance or republicanism in Scotland. However you may be more aware of that than I.


Fair point indeed. But I sense that independence is an issue that one either passionately supports, or is largely indifferent towards (or quietly against).

Generally only nationalists will feel passionate enough about independence to talk about the issue socially. I can't imagine two non-nationalists saying to each other "Oh I'm glad that we are a part of the UK - wouldn't want it any other way". Although that is what they're thinking, they won't bother saying it because people generally only talk politics if there's something they're not happy with (myself included). I assume that you are against independence (I respect your opinion 100%), so I doubt that you spend much time talking about it because that's the status quo, and for that reason perhaps you are less likely to come accross those that are in favour of independence. On the other hand, I do feel passionately in favour of it, and talk to a lot of people about it, and more often that not, people agree with me. I must re-assert that this happens a lot in Scotland and Ireland too, probably since they are in a similar situation.

But another reason for our difference in findings may be due to the simple fact that we generally spend our time conversing with those that are like-minded to ourselves, so it's natural that our friends will have similar opinion to us.

[manker]

Irish mythology talks about the Dana coming from Galactica to IrelandFantastic, I bet if Starbuck put her mind to it, she could spawn an entire race from a relatively small gene pool.




Just kidding. Good post, Les. I think we're in agreement :)

[Santa]

should i read this entire thread in order to find a reason to post?
yes?
r
No?

[JPaul]

I don't know about the rest of your post, but I suspect you have been rather selective in the Scottish and Irish people you have spoken to with regard to whether we hate the "establishment", or it's "monarchy".

Taking the North of Ireland as an example, I think it's true to say that the majority of the population are loyalists / monarchist. Hence the Government they select for themselves, both as their Westminster MPs and in their Assembly.

Neither have I been aware any great upsurge in calls for independance or republicanism in Scotland. However you may be more aware of that than I.


Fair point indeed. But I sense that independence is an issue that one either passionately supports, or is largely indifferent towards (or quietly against).

Generally only nationalists will feel passionate enough about independence to talk about the issue socially. I can't imagine two non-nationalists saying to each other "Oh I'm glad that we are a part of the UK - wouldn't want it any other way". Although that is what they're thinking, they won't bother saying it because people generally only talk politics if there's something they're not happy with (myself included). I assume that you are against independence (I respect your opinion 100%), so I doubt that you spend much time talking about it because that's the status quo, and for that reason perhaps you are less likely to come accross those that are in favour of independence. On the other hand, I do feel passionately in favour of it, and talk to a lot of people about it, and more often that not, people agree with me. I must re-assert that this happens a lot in Scotland and Ireland too, probably since they are in a similar situation.

But another reason for our difference in findings may be due to the simple fact that we generally spend our time conversing with those that are like-minded to ourselves, so it's natural that our friends will have similar opinion to us.



I think you will find, certainly for Ireland, that remaining part of the UK is a subject dear to the hearts of a great many of it's citizens. For another part of it's population leaving it is just as great an issue. Indeed I would suggest that it is by far the most important issue, in political terms. Let's face it, thats what their elections, for both Westminster and Stormont, are based upon.

With regard to my own position, I am currently not really that fussed with regard to further independence. Devolution suits me for now. I think that is the case for the majority of Scots. However I am totally against the monarchy, or indeed anything else which is not elected.

I suspect our findings differ because I am a Scot, living and working in Scotland and visiting Ireland as part of my work. You on the other hand are a Welsh chap. I couldn't possibly comment on what percentage of the Welsh speaking population seek independance. Maybe that's the culturally important point here, Welsh speakers have been brought up a certain way. Englishmen born in Wales, like manker, haven't

[manker]

/leaves forum

[Biggles]

Englishmen born in Wales, like manker, haven't


Ouch - I can feel the pain from here. :ph34r:

[JPaul]

Les,

What's your take on
Most Welsh speakers I know (and every Scottish and Irish person I've met) hate the establishment and really don't want anything to do with it, or its monarchy (but that's another story).

[manker]

It's pish, my Gran speaks Welsh and she absolutely adores the Queen and the Royal family.

I realise this is only anecdotal evidence but it's better than a sweeping generalisation :smilie4:


Edit: thinking about it, she is the only Welsh speaking person I know.

[JPaul]

It's pish, my Gran speaks Welsh and she absolutely adores the Queen and the Royal family.

I realise this is only anecdotal evidence but it's better than a sweeping generalisation :smilie4:


Edit: thinking about it, she is the only Welsh speaking person I know.
So it would be fair to say that you, as an independant witness, have spoken to every Welsh speaker you know and to a nan they are unionists and monarchists.

That seems pretty conclusive to me.

[manker]

It's pish, my Gran speaks Welsh and she absolutely adores the Queen and the Royal family.

I realise this is only anecdotal evidence but it's better than a sweeping generalisation :smilie4:


Edit: thinking about it, she is the only Welsh speaking person I know.
So it would be fair to say that you, as an independant witness, have spoken to every Welsh speaker you know and to a nan they are unionists and monarchists.

That seems pretty conclusive to me.That's about the size of it.

There was this ginger kid in junior school who had a stutter, but could speak Welsh - I haven't actually managed to gauge his opinion on this issue but then I've not spoken to him for nigh on twenty years.

So I don't really know him anyhow.

[manker]

Oh, there is this mad bloke from down the road that used to shout at us as kids, in a language we thought was devil-speak.

Turns out, it was Welsh - I've not asked him either :dabs:

[JPaul]

So it would be fair to say that you, as an independant witness, have spoken to every Welsh speaker you know and to a nan they are unionists and monarchists.

That seems pretty conclusive to me.That's about the size of it.

There was this ginger kid in junior school who had a stutter, but could speak Welsh - I haven't actually managed to gauge his opinion on this issue but then I've not spoken to him for nigh on twenty years.

So I don't really know him anyhow.
Did he stammer when speaking Welsh.

I s'pose it would be really hard for you to tell.

[Biggles]

I would guess that there are probably more Scots, Welsh and Irish that are anti-establishment in the traditional sense that Conservatives, Queen and Church of England were seen as inter-changeable. The Labour movement was non-conformist and luke warm (at best) to Land and Privilege. So there is a tradition there, especially as the strongest support for the Labour movement came from Wales and Scotland.

However, the original statement is too strong. For every Keir Hardy there is a Donald Findlay. :ph34r: Nevertheless having worked in the south of England for a few years it would be fair to say that we non-Angles are a tad more Bolshie and far less Royalist (nothwithstanding the Beast of Bolsover). The Golden Jubilee went pretty much unnoticed up here but every second house down south seemed to be decked in bunting. The main error of the statement was that it suggested a degree of passion for republicanism. The average Scot is not for royalty or republicanism - he is mainly for a pint. :lookaroun

[JPaul]

Oh, there is this mad bloke from down the road that used to shout at us as kids, in a language we thought was devil-speak.

Turns out, it was Welsh - I've not asked him either :dabs:
Maybe he was inviting you in for a suite.

[JPaul]

I would guess that there are probably more Scots, Welsh and Irish that are anti-establishment in the traditional sense that Conservatives, Queen and Church of England were seen as inter-changeable. The Labour movement was non-conformist and luke warm (at best) to Land and Privilege. So there is a tradition there, especially as the strongest support for the Labour movement came from Wales and Scotland.

However, the original statement is too strong. For every Keir Hardy there is a Donald Findlay. :ph34r: Nevertheless having worked in the south of England for a few years it would be fair to say that we non-Angles are a tad more Bolshie and far less Royalist (nothwithstanding the Beast of Bolsover). The Golden Jubilee went pretty much unnoticed up here but every second house down south seemed to be decked in bunting. The main error of the statement was that it suggested a degree of passion for republicanism. The average Scot is not for royalty or republicanism - he is mainly for a pint. :lookaroun
:drunk:

[manker]

The average Scot is not for royalty or republicanism - he is mainly for a pint. Of vodka :dabs:

[JPaul]

The average Scot is not for royalty or republicanism - he is mainly for a pint. Of vodka :dabs:
Anecdotal, or sweeping generalization. :naughty:

[Biggles]

The average Scot is not for royalty or republicanism - he is mainly for a pint. Of vodka :dabs:

Enough is a sufficiency :snooty:

[JPaul]

Of vodka :dabs:

Enough is a sufficiency :snooty:
A bird in the hand gathers no moss.

[manker]

Of vodka :dabs:
Anecdotal, or sweeping generalization. :naughty:Purely anecdotal.

I've only been there a few times and each of them I didn't emerge from my hotel - scared witless of the hoards of junkies with aids :no:

[Biggles]

Anecdotal, or sweeping generalization. :naughty:Purely anecdotal.

I've only been there a few times and each of them I didn't emerge from my hotel - scared witless of the hoards of junkies with aids :no:

As a rule, if it says Mission Hostel on the outside it is not a hotel.


Easy mistake to make though and very reasonably priced. :ermm:

[JPaul]

Purely anecdotal.

I've only been there a few times and each of them I didn't emerge from my hotel - scared witless of the hoards of junkies with aids :no:

As a rule, if it says Mission Hostel on the outside it is not a hotel.


Easy mistake to make though and very reasonably priced. :ermm:
manker has a rare form of Welsh dyslexia where he can't see the letter "s". This is why he regularly stays at the Miion Hotel, which he believes has an exotic ring to it.

[manker]

manker has a rare form of Welsh dyslexiaThe medical term for it is dsylx.

[JPaul]

manker has a rare form of Welsh dyslexiaThe medical term for it is dsylx.
If I get you to say that backwards do you have to go back to your own dimension.

[Gripper]

It's pish, my Gran speaks Welsh and she absolutely adores the Queen and the Royal family.

I realise this is only anecdotal evidence but it's better than a sweeping generalisation :smilie4:


Edit: thinking about it, she is the only Welsh speaking person I know.
If she's the only Welsh speaker you know ,how do you know sh'e speaking Welsh and not just Gibberish,unless you speak Welsh,thus making it 2 people you know that speak Welsh.:huh:

[JPaul]

It's pish, my Gran speaks Welsh and she absolutely adores the Queen and the Royal family.

I realise this is only anecdotal evidence but it's better than a sweeping generalisation :smilie4:


Edit: thinking about it, she is the only Welsh speaking person I know.
If she's the only Welsh speaker you know ,how do you know sh'e speaking Welsh and not just Gibberish,unless you speak Welsh,thus making it 2 people you know that speak Welsh.:huh:
Good point, very good point.

Answer that Wenglish boy.

[manker]

If she's the only Welsh speaker you know ,how do you know sh'e speaking Welsh and not just Gibberish,unless you speak Welsh,thus making it 2 people you know that speak Welsh.:huh:
Good point, very good point.

Answer that Wenglish boy.Welsh = gibberish. I thought everyone knew that.

[Carcinus]

Good point, very good point.

Answer that Wenglish boy.Welsh = gibberish. I thought everyone knew that.

It's not gibberish, it's just sans vowels. :D

[meirionwyllt]

Welsh = gibberish. I thought everyone knew that.

It's not gibberish, it's just sans vowels. :D

May I just pick you up on the fact that there are in fact two more vowels in our alphabet than there are in yours. And yes, we do use them all.

[meirionwyllt]

I think you will find, certainly for Ireland, that remaining part of the UK is a subject dear to the hearts of a great many of it's citizens. For another part of it's population leaving it is just as great an issue. Indeed I would suggest that it is by far the most important issue, in political terms. Let's face it, thats what their elections, for both Westminster and Stormont, are based upon.

With regard to my own position, I am currently not really that fussed with regard to further independence. Devolution suits me for now. I think that is the case for the majority of Scots. However I am totally against the monarchy, or indeed anything else which is not elected.

I suspect our findings differ because I am a Scot, living and working in Scotland and visiting Ireland as part of my work. You on the other hand are a Welsh chap. I couldn't possibly comment on what percentage of the Welsh speaking population seek independance. Maybe that's the culturally important point here, Welsh speakers have been brought up a certain way. Englishmen born in Wales, like manker, haven't

Very true - couldn't agree more. Perhaps I would be slightly happier with devolution the way it is if we had law making powers similar to yourselves. But the recently passed Goverment of Wales Bill has started the ball rolling on that one.

[meirionwyllt]

'Pennycome' is Welsh for 'head of the valley'.

Although I realise that you may not have been personally responsible for this translation, I think you mean 'Pen y Cwm'. It never ceases to amaze me the way that the English, upon hearing a word in another language, think of English words that sound similar, then use those as a spelling for the original word, completely ignoring the simple fact that phonetics can vary immensely between two languages.

No wonder the Enlish have corrupted so many of our place names into simpler, more pronounceable versions. It reminds me of a mother having to mash up a banana into a kind of slush to make it easier on the baby's teeth.

[meirionwyllt]

If I might throw my tuppence in

"Celtic" is a convenient short hand for the Western peoples of Europe - the Galcians, Bretons, Cornish, Irish, Scots and Welsh. Recent DNA studies have suggested a common ancestory that is remarkably old for this area and these people.

The La Tene iron age culture of central Europe encapsulates a very particular artistic and cultural style which is certainly picked up in "Celtic" work of the same period. However, this does not mean that these Western areas were colonised by the La Tene culture people. The evidence is to the contrary and it is now generally considered that the builders of the stone megaliths and burial tombs like Maeshowe and Newgrange went on uninterupted to become the "Celtic" peoples of the Western fringes who traded and interacted with mainland Europe. Irish mythology talks about the Dana coming from Galacia to Ireland and it seems probable that the peoples that settled these areas after the ice age were from very old European stock. Europe was subject to many ravages and movements of people. The Western fringes became the last outpost of La Tene art and culture and many would argue defined it, making it their own.

The term Celts was coined by the ancient Greeks and is unlikely to be a term these people used themselves. The Romans called the Caledonians Picts but records suggest they called themselves the Cruithne or the Prydyn (where Briton comes from)

Least that is my view :)

This makes for very interesting reading. However, I wouls like to ask you further about this. Where does the language fit in here though? Welsh, as is several other languages, is of Indo-European origin. So this points towards a migration, during a stretch of time somewhere in prehistoria, of a certain people from Central Europe. It must have happened, and if so, I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that it was the Celts that came here?

[Barbarossa]

We do not have fact to support my claim or yours, we only have evidence

Genious. :01:

[manker]

'Pennycome' is Welsh for 'head of the valley'.

Although I realise that you may not have been personally responsible for this translation, I think you mean 'Pen y Cwm'. It never ceases to amaze me the way that the English, upon hearing a word in another language, think of English words that sound similar, then use those as a spelling for the original word, completely ignoring the simple fact that phonetics can vary immensely between two languages.

No wonder the Enlish have corrupted so many of our place names into simpler, more pronounceable versions. It reminds me of a mother having to mash up a banana into a kind of slush to make it easier on the baby's teeth.You get amazed very easily.

I was recalling a thread that was written 2 years ago and giving a gist of it - I really couldn't be arsed to google a full explanation of the etymological metamorphic process which gets us from 'Pen y Cwm' to 'Penny Come'.

Here is something else to amaze you; Welsh people take words from other languages and make them easier to pronounce too! Can you imagine my surprise when I found this out.

The word 'ambulance' in Welsh is 'ambiwlans' - now I'm not sure if an English person or a Welsh person first bastardised the term from the Latin 'ambulare', but it's clear that they both did so to make the word fit in better with the phonetics of the native tongue.

You want to know something else that's absolutely amazing? Every language bastardises terms from other languages and uses them on a regular basis!

:o :o :o :o :o :o

[Mr JP Fugley]

I think you will find, certainly for Ireland, that remaining part of the UK is a subject dear to the hearts of a great many of it's citizens. For another part of it's population leaving it is just as great an issue. Indeed I would suggest that it is by far the most important issue, in political terms. Let's face it, thats what their elections, for both Westminster and Stormont, are based upon.

With regard to my own position, I am currently not really that fussed with regard to further independence. Devolution suits me for now. I think that is the case for the majority of Scots. However I am totally against the monarchy, or indeed anything else which is not elected.

I suspect our findings differ because I am a Scot, living and working in Scotland and visiting Ireland as part of my work. You on the other hand are a Welsh chap. I couldn't possibly comment on what percentage of the Welsh speaking population seek independance. Maybe that's the culturally important point here, Welsh speakers have been brought up a certain way. Englishmen born in Wales, like manker, haven't

Very true - couldn't agree more. Perhaps I would be slightly happier with devolution the way it is if we had law making powers similar to yourselves. But the recently passed Goverment of Wales Bill has started the ball rolling on that one.
It makes no sense to me why the Irish and Welsh assemblies were not given the same powers, at the same time as, the Scottish Executive. The main issues devolved to the Scotttish Executive are Law & Order, Health and Education. In essence any laws made at Westminster, in relation to devolved issues, have no effect in Scotland (save that the SE may adopt them via a Sewell motion).

I suppose the fact that we always had a seperate legal jurisdiction from England and Wales may have something to do with it. Or it could be because of the England and Wales Cricket Board.

[lynx]

It's pish, my Gran speaks Welsh and she absolutely adores the Queen and the Royal family.

I realise this is only anecdotal evidence but it's better than a sweeping generalisation :smilie4:


Edit: thinking about it, she is the only Welsh speaking person I know.At first I thought you meant she's the only Welsh-speaking person you know.

Of course, when I realised you would never make such a gramatical error I wondered how come you only know one Welsh person who could speak.

Eventually I realised that they can actually speak, but that you are unaware of it since they don't speak to you.

[JPaul]

It's pish, my Gran speaks Welsh and she absolutely adores the Queen and the Royal family.

I realise this is only anecdotal evidence but it's better than a sweeping generalisation :smilie4:


Edit: thinking about it, she is the only Welsh speaking person I know.At first I thought you meant she's the only Welsh-speaking person you know.

Of course, when I realised you would never make such a gramatical error I wondered how come you only know one Welsh person who could speak.

Eventually I realised that they can actually speak, but that you are unaware of it since they don't speak to you.


Pithy put down.

[lynx]

At least his Gran speaks to him, whoever she is.

It would have been even better if his Nan spoke to him too. :ermm:

[Biggles]

If I might throw my tuppence in

"Celtic" is a convenient short hand for the Western peoples of Europe - the Galcians, Bretons, Cornish, Irish, Scots and Welsh. Recent DNA studies have suggested a common ancestory that is remarkably old for this area and these people.

The La Tene iron age culture of central Europe encapsulates a very particular artistic and cultural style which is certainly picked up in "Celtic" work of the same period. However, this does not mean that these Western areas were colonised by the La Tene culture people. The evidence is to the contrary and it is now generally considered that the builders of the stone megaliths and burial tombs like Maeshowe and Newgrange went on uninterupted to become the "Celtic" peoples of the Western fringes who traded and interacted with mainland Europe. Irish mythology talks about the Dana coming from Galacia to Ireland and it seems probable that the peoples that settled these areas after the ice age were from very old European stock. Europe was subject to many ravages and movements of people. The Western fringes became the last outpost of La Tene art and culture and many would argue defined it, making it their own.

The term Celts was coined by the ancient Greeks and is unlikely to be a term these people used themselves. The Romans called the Caledonians Picts but records suggest they called themselves the Cruithne or the Prydyn (where Briton comes from)

Least that is my view :)

This makes for very interesting reading. However, I wouls like to ask you further about this. Where does the language fit in here though? Welsh, as is several other languages, is of Indo-European origin. So this points towards a migration, during a stretch of time somewhere in prehistoria, of a certain people from Central Europe. It must have happened, and if so, I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that it was the Celts that came here?

It is certainly true that all the Western fringe languages have a close connection with each other and it is reasonably certain that they are largely Indo-European although elements of Pictish suggest pre-Indo-European origins. However, whilst we know what the Western Fringes spoke (still do speak), the language of the "Celts" as in La Tene culture is much less certain. It may be that their language was another Indo-European variation as there is little indication in place names to suggest that it was similar to our languages.

Essentially what I am saying is that what was a fairly broad Pan-European culture which stretched from the Shetlands to Bulgaria and even into Anatolia was one of common art, metal working, and perhaps religion and social structure but may not have necessarily been totally of one language or ethnic group. Therefore, we, as the remaining representatives of Celtic culture are now all there is of the "Celts". Successive invasions and population movements changed things in the rest of Europe but the Western fringes continued with an artistic and cultural style which evolved and developed, rather than declined, into the high art form of music, mythology and art which is synonomous with our peoples today. (Apologies to people who hate our music, art etc., :) )

Ideas can be exchanged without the necessity for large scale population movements. For example, as a youth in the early 70s I was a bit hippyish but I had never seen a live Californian. The concept of "Celt" could therefore be a cultural rather than an ethnic or language one. As I said, the DNA evidence suggests that we got here early and stayed here but were not by any means a backwater. The Western Fringes display many things which are unique, from the stone megaliths to the Druids. The Romans considered Britain to be the source of Druidry and that Gauls came to Britain to learn the secrets of the priesthood.

Consequently perhaps we arguing at cross puposes. I am not saying we are not Celts. I am suggesting that the term Celt itself is perhaps misleading and that there is no requirement for wholesale population movement to explain what happened. We are a distinctive language and ethnic group with a Celtic culture (the only one left) and we can trace our sources back to the La Tene culture and beyond. Many of the themes on the stones of Newgrange crop up in art of our continuing Celtic period also.

This is a current hot topic in ancient history and the academics are lined up on both sides of the equation. I think the evidence stacks up towards cultural exchange rather than population change but if I am wrong I can live with it :)


PS sorry for straying from the Drawing Room into the Lounge

I'll get me coat

[JPaul]

.... but if I am wrong I can live with it :)

Given the post which preceded it, I think that is my absolute fave phrase for an age.

[manker]

It's pish, my Gran speaks Welsh and she absolutely adores the Queen and the Royal family.

I realise this is only anecdotal evidence but it's better than a sweeping generalisation :smilie4:


Edit: thinking about it, she is the only Welsh speaking person I know.At first I thought you meant she's the only Welsh-speaking person you know.

Of course, when I realised you would never make such a gramatical error I wondered how come you only know one Welsh person who could speak.

Eventually I realised that they can actually speak, but that you are unaware of it since they don't speak to you.Extrapolation clearly isn't a strong point of yours.

It's a grammatical error either way as the adjectives that precede 'person' in the term 'Welsh speaking person' should be separated either by a comma, if they are distinct, or a hyphen if they are meant to be read as one.

Given that it's brutally obvious to the trained eye that a grammatical error has definitely been made, one needs to extrapolate which punctuation mark had been omitted; either only one Welsh person has ever spoken to me, or Gran is the only person I know who can speak the Welsh language.

See :)

[GepperRankins]

At first I thought you meant she's the only Welsh-speaking person you know.

Of course, when I realised you would never make such a gramatical error I wondered how come you only know one Welsh person who could speak.

Eventually I realised that they can actually speak, but that you are unaware of it since they don't speak to you.Extrapolation clearly isn't a strong point of yours.

It's a grammatical error either way as the adjectives that precede 'person' in the term 'Welsh speaking person' should be separated either by a comma, if they are distinct, or a hyphen if they are meant to be read as one.

Given that it's brutally obvious to the trained eye that a grammatical error has definitely been made, one needs to extrapolate which punctuation mark had been omitted; either only one Welsh person has ever spoken to me, or Gran is the only person I know who can speak the Welsh language.

See :)
*definately

[Chewie]

Extrapolation clearly isn't a strong point of yours.

It's a grammatical error either way as the adjectives that precede 'person' in the term 'Welsh speaking person' should be separated either by a comma, if they are distinct, or a hyphen if they are meant to be read as one.

Given that it's brutally obvious to the trained eye that a grammatical error has definitely been made, one needs to extrapolate which punctuation mark had been omitted; either only one Welsh person has ever spoken to me, or Gran is the only person I know who can speak the Welsh language.

See :)
*definately:blink:
Ahem.:ermm:

[lynx]

At first I thought you meant she's the only Welsh-speaking person you know.

Of course, when I realised you would never make such a gramatical error I wondered how come you only know one Welsh person who could speak.

Eventually I realised that they can actually speak, but that you are unaware of it since they don't speak to you.Extrapolation clearly isn't a strong point of yours.

It's a grammatical error either way as the adjectives that precede 'person' in the term 'Welsh speaking person' should be separated either by a comma, if they are distinct, or a hyphen if they are meant to be read as one.

Given that it's brutally obvious to the trained eye that a grammatical error has definitely been made, one needs to extrapolate which punctuation mark had been omitted; either only one Welsh person has ever spoken to me, or Gran is the only person I know who can speak the Welsh language.

See :)So I was right then. And I bet you bribed her with babycham. :dabs:

[meirionwyllt]

Here is something else to amaze you; Welsh people take words from other languages and make them easier to pronounce too! Can you imagine my surprise when I found this out.

The word 'ambulance' in Welsh is 'ambiwlans' - now I'm not sure if an English person or a Welsh person first bastardised the term from the Latin 'ambulare', but it's clear that they both did so to make the word fit in better with the phonetics of the native tongue.

You want to know something else that's absolutely amazing? Every language bastardises terms from other languages and uses them on a regular basis!

:o :o :o :o :o :o

We are talking about different things here...

I have no qualms about a language 'borrowing' a word from another language and putting a more phonetically agreeable version in its own dictionary to fill in any logic gaps therein. As you say, that happens in all languages, and has happened in every language ever. For example, if English people wanted to use the phrase Pen y Cwm in theit dictionary, and spell it Pennycome, then fine, go ahead, because I know that the Oxford dictionary (which happens to be a very good one) would give an accurate account of the word's origin.

My 'beef' is with English people crossing the border and expecting here to be an extension of England. Take for example place names. I can carry on calling England 'Lloegr', or calling Scotland 'Yr Alban', but I would never dream of forcing those names on the places. It happens so much in Welsh towns (not so much in villages simply because they are too small), and half the time the English versions of the names don't even make sense, and bear no relevance to the locality or its surroundings. And whether or not you think I'm being over the top, that is cultural genocide by the linguistically philistine English towards Welsh people.

I know that some may think that I'm generalising and brandishing a lot of people, but when you've seen evidence of immense disrespect for our language/culture every day of your life, you begin to lose faith and start thinking that ALL the English have the same contempt for our identity. I try not to have this opinion all the time, but sometimes it's impossible not to. How many English people have heard of the Tryweryn outrage? Or even Clywedog? Not many I bet. The English media keep things like that away from the people.

[GepperRankins]

Here is something else to amaze you; Welsh people take words from other languages and make them easier to pronounce too! Can you imagine my surprise when I found this out.

The word 'ambulance' in Welsh is 'ambiwlans' - now I'm not sure if an English person or a Welsh person first bastardised the term from the Latin 'ambulare', but it's clear that they both did so to make the word fit in better with the phonetics of the native tongue.

You want to know something else that's absolutely amazing? Every language bastardises terms from other languages and uses them on a regular basis!

:o :o :o :o :o :o

We are talking about different things here...

I have no qualms about a language 'borrowing' a word from another language and putting a more phonetically agreeable version in its own dictionary to fill in any logic gaps therein. As you say, that happens in all languages, and has happened in every language ever. For example, if English people wanted to use the phrase Pen y Cwm in theit dictionary, and spell it Pennycome, then fine, go ahead, because I know that the Oxford dictionary (which happens to be a very good one) would give an accurate account of the word's origin.

My 'beef' is with English people crossing the border and expecting here to be an extension of England. Take for example place names. I can carry on calling England 'Lloegr', or calling Scotland 'Yr Alban', but I would never dream of forcing those names on the places. It happens so much in Welsh towns (not so much in villages simply because they are too small), and half the time the English versions of the names don't even make sense, and bear no relevance to the locality or its surroundings. And whether or not you think I'm being over the top, that is cultural genocide by the linguistically philistine English towards Welsh people.

I know that some may think that I'm generalising and brandishing a lot of people, but when you've seen evidence of immense disrespect for our language/culture every day of your life, you begin to lose faith and start thinking that ALL the English have the same contempt for our identity. I try not to have this opinion all the time, but sometimes it's impossible not to. How many English people have heard of the Tryweryn outrage? Or even Clywedog? Not many I bet. The English media keep things like that away from the people.
it's an in joke that only the ubercool get

[ziggyjuarez]

the internet is for porn

[Biggles]

the internet is for porn

Random...



but not necessarily factually incorrect :ermm:

[IncurableChevy]

I speak Welsh! I am in fact, from Anglesey, and born and bred here. I grew up speaking Welsh, as do most of my friends, and my children speak Welsh.

I don't give a stuff whether I'm descended from Celts or otherwise. :w00t:

I don't feel devolution is neccessarily the best way forward; especially as it stands now, when we still don't honestly have much say in Welsh affairs even though we do have a hugely expensive and rather verbose Assembly.

We don't bother burning Union Jacks; it's far more fun to sell hapless tourists horribly overpriced crap that reads 'A Gift From Wales' and stamped 'Made in Taiwan' on the back. :naughty:

This kind of sums Wales up really; our word(s) for generator is 'peiriant cynhyrchu trydan'. It means... machine for making electricity. :D

I love my country, I love being Welsh, and I'm proud of it. But I'd hate to be so proud I lost my sense of humour.

[Mr. Mulder]

sup incurablechevy :dabs:

[JPaul]

And whether or not you think I'm being over the top, that is cultural genocide by the linguistically philistine English towards Welsh people.


That's a bit harsh.

[manker]

I speak Welsh! I am in fact, from Anglesey, and born and bred here. I grew up speaking Welsh, as do most of my friends, and my children speak Welsh.

I don't give a stuff whether I'm descended from Celts or otherwise. :w00t:

I don't feel devolution is neccessarily the best way forward; especially as it stands now, when we still don't honestly have much say in Welsh affairs even though we do have a hugely expensive and rather verbose Assembly.

We don't bother burning Union Jacks; it's far more fun to sell hapless tourists horribly overpriced crap that reads 'A Gift From Wales' and stamped 'Made in Taiwan' on the back. :naughty:

This kind of sums Wales up really; our word(s) for generator is 'peiriant cynhyrchu trydan'. It means... machine for making electricity. :D

I love my country, I love being Welsh, and I'm proud of it. But I'd hate to be so proud I lost my sense of humour.Welcome :D


I agree with most of that. You seem much better than that other chap with the persecution complex.

In any case, fantastic to see a few more people from god's own country here at FST :01:

[Mr. Mulder]

I speak Welsh! I am in fact, from Anglesey, and born and bred here. I grew up speaking Welsh, as do most of my friends, and my children speak Welsh.

I don't give a stuff whether I'm descended from Celts or otherwise. :w00t:

I don't feel devolution is neccessarily the best way forward; especially as it stands now, when we still don't honestly have much say in Welsh affairs even though we do have a hugely expensive and rather verbose Assembly.

We don't bother burning Union Jacks; it's far more fun to sell hapless tourists horribly overpriced crap that reads 'A Gift From Wales' and stamped 'Made in Taiwan' on the back. :naughty:

This kind of sums Wales up really; our word(s) for generator is 'peiriant cynhyrchu trydan'. It means... machine for making electricity. :D

I love my country, I love being Welsh, and I'm proud of it. But I'd hate to be so proud I lost my sense of humour.Welcome :D


I agree with most of that. You seem much better than that other chap with the persecution complex.

In any case, fantastic to see a few more people from god's own country here at FST :01:

jerusalem?rolf

[JPaul]

Welcome :D


I agree with most of that. You seem much better than that other chap with the persecution complex.

In any case, fantastic to see a few more people from god's own country here at FST :01:

jerusalem?rolf
Walk upon England's peasant lands. :blink:

[manker]

lol, scotland's not even a country irl

[meirionwyllt]

You seem much better than that other chap with the persecution complex.

You are the epitome of armchair punditry. How can you possibly agree/disagree on the matter of the English indirectly forcing out the Welsh language? You don't even speak the language so how can you assess the evidence for/against the claim? You have no way of seeing the knocks that our language is taking from the Goverment's unwillingess to take it seriously.

And why do you assume that I'm a "chap"? Isn't that a bit sexist?

[Proper Bo]

Welsh just sounds like someone with a bad cough anyway:dabs:

[GepperRankins]

and if the welsh welsh can't agree on the language, why should teh english make the effort? :dabs:

[JPaul]

You have no way of seeing the knocks that our language is taking from the Goverment's unwillingess to take it seriously.



What percentage of the Welsh population really care about their native language. How many learn it, or lobby the Government / Assembly to preserve it.

[Proper Bo]

You have no way of seeing the knocks that our language is taking from the Goverment's unwillingess to take it seriously.


What percentage of the Welsh population really care about their native language. How many learn it, or lobby the Government / Assembly to preserve it.

about 3 people...so that's roughly 10%

[JPaul]

What percentage of the Welsh population really care about their native language. How many learn it, or lobby the Government / Assembly to preserve it.

about 3 people...so that's roughly 10%
The entire population of Bargoed, so that's the three.

[Biggles]

You have no way of seeing the knocks that our language is taking from the Goverment's unwillingess to take it seriously.



What percentage of the Welsh population really care about their native language. How many learn it, or lobby the Government / Assembly to preserve it.


To be fair, both Welsh and Gaelic really suffered in the late 19th/early 20th century. Kids caught speaking either at school really did get a knot of rope put around their neck or, if the teacher could not be arsed with all that, a beating.. However, from the 60s onwards this has been reversed. The difficulty is reversing the decline of previous decades and the fact that the world as a global village is moving ever towards a homogeneous culture. I don't think the Welsh Assembly or the Scottish Parliment are anti their native languages and one cannot expect the English to be interested. Many of them cannot even be bothered to speak their own language properly never mind somebody else's :whistling The languages will be kept alive but they are extremely unlikely to be the main vehicle for any form of political independence.

[Rat Faced]

North Tyneside:smilie4:

and/or Northumberland

ditto


Excellent...... glad you remembered that Tyne & Wear would include Mackums, which brings down the tone of the place.

[Proper Bo]

North Tyneside:smilie4:

and/or Northumberland
ditto


Excellent...... glad you remembered that Tyne & Wear would include Mackums, which brings down the tone of the place.

Wearside = aids

fact.

[Biggles]

North Tyneside:smilie4:

and/or Northumberland

ditto


Excellent...... glad you remembered that Tyne & Wear would include Mackums, which brings down the tone of the place.

:O You mean you admit that Makums are even from the same planet? Puts us and the Galacians into the shade :lol:

[Rat Faced]

You seem much better than that other chap with the persecution complex.

You are the epitome of armchair punditry. How can you possibly agree/disagree on the matter of the English indirectly forcing out the Welsh language? You don't even speak the language so how can you assess the evidence for/against the claim? You have no way of seeing the knocks that our language is taking from the Goverment's unwillingess to take it seriously.

And why do you assume that I'm a "chap"? Isn't that a bit sexist?

Can i point out that any forms you get from the Government can come printed out in the Welsh Language?

Petty i know, but the Scottish, Manx, Irish, Cornish and French speakers in the British Isles don't get the choice... its English or nothing for them.


You appear to be under the impression that your an opressed minority... join the club. Just about every part of the UK has been oppressed by just about every other part at some point in History.

You also generalise rather a lot about "The English". Could you point out this culture? Other than on a map i mean.. Dont take this as an insult because its not. YOU still have your language and culture, YOU still have a chance of independance... many of the varied cultures that have existed within these Isles dont.. you should be rightly proud of that.

While your doing so, please remember that many of the cultures and languages that existed here have gone for good and the remnants are classed as "English" because thats where they are on a Map.

Read about the "North/South Divide" sometime before generalizing about the "English"... then ponder as to why there is one. Maybe look into "English" History a little... see the larks and fun that was to be had in the North of England in 1069 and the following centuries.

BTW: The Celts werent the 1st people in Wales, The Beaker Folk beat you to it for starters and theres evidence of people 1000's of years before them. :P

[Biggles]

BTW: The Celts werent the 1st people in Wales, The Beaker Folk beat you to it for starters and theres evidence of people 1000's of years before them. :P

:ermm: I thought I had covered that.

[JPaul]

BTW: The Celts werent the 1st people in Wales, The Beaker Folk beat you to it for starters and theres evidence of people 1000's of years before them. :P

:ermm: I thought I had covered that.
Slipshod work, Les.

So unlike you.

[manker]

You seem much better than that other chap with the persecution complex.

You are the epitome of armchair punditry. How can you possibly agree/disagree on the matter of the English indirectly forcing out the Welsh language? You don't even speak the language so how can you assess the evidence for/against the claim? You have no way of seeing the knocks that our language is taking from the Goverment's unwillingess to take it seriously.

And why do you assume that I'm a "chap"? Isn't that a bit sexist?You think because I don't speak Welsh fluently that I can't comment on an issue concerning the Welsh language.

What rubbish. I can't play rugby very well but I can still say that Wales were shite yesterday and that Shane Williams played like a big girl.

Btw, I said 'chap' because the first part of your username is 'meirion' - which is a boy's name. I made the mental leap that you're probably a bloke with a persecution complex, rather than a girl with a persecution complex.

So not sexist at all.

[Proper Bo]

Btw, I said 'chap' because the first part of your username is 'meirion' - which is a boy's name.

That's not a boy's name, you silly goose:no2:

[meirionwyllt]

Right, I think we are going round in circles here. We are all different people with different backgrounds/experiences/priorites, and when we can't agree on whether there is there is blame on the Goverment for my language's oppression in my country, then carrying on is pointless. So with immediate effect I am leaving this thread.

And don't think even for a minute that I'm giving in to you guys, because I'm not. I've said what I came here to say, and although I could carry on with my side of the debate forever and ever, it won't make any difference to anything - your minds are made up and so is mine. Besides, I feel that I've wasted anough time on this thread.

It's been quite a fiery debate, but a good one I think. We are not the first, and defnintely not the last, to be arguing over this topic. Wales will be free one day, probably not in my lifetime, but it's something for my future children/grandchildren to enjoy.

Boneddigion a Boneddigesau, heddwch i chwi oll.
(Ladies and Gentlemen, peace to you all.)

[Proper Bo]

I'll make a deal with you, vote me in as prime minister and I'll make Wales totally independant.:smilie4:

[JPaul]

And don't think even for a minute that I'm giving in to you guys, because I'm not.
I really wish you hadn't posted that part :cry:

It's a wee bit undignified.

I mean, starting a sentence with a conjunction. Don't you have an even rudimentary understanding of English.

Warning - If you can't work out that the last part of that was a joke then you are in serious need of help. And a :nob:

[Biggles]

:huh:

Did I miss something?

I thought the debate was reasonably sedate for one tacked on as a side issue to a "Best County" thread in the Lounge.

I was not aware that there had been a big disagreement regarding the poor treatment of the non-English languages in the UK in the past. I am not aware that it is still a current problem under the devolved Parliaments but I happy to hear of instances where this might be the case in Wales.

[JPaul]

FFS Les.

Gaelic is under-represented in Wales. Fact.

[Barbarossa]

Wales will be free one day, probably not in my lifetime, but it's something for my future children/grandchildren to enjoy.

Well paint me confused! :stars:

You're about as free as anyone. In fact, along the M4, it's free to leave Wales, but you have to pay to get in. :frusty:

[Agrajag]

Wales will be free one day, probably not in my lifetime, but it's something for my future children/grandchildren to enjoy.

Well paint me confused! :stars:

You're about as free as anyone. In fact, along the M4, it's free to leave Wales, but you have to pay to get in. :frusty:
Pay to get in :O , is Wales some sort of amusement park.

[Barbarossa]

Well paint me confused! :stars:

You're about as free as anyone. In fact, along the M4, it's free to leave Wales, but you have to pay to get in. :frusty:
Pay to get in :O , is Wales some sort of amusement park.

Yes, it's sort of like Disneyworld, but all the characters are Goofy. :dabs: