Kirby Puckett....Barry Bonds

[j2k4]

RIP, Kirby.

I loved watching you play, and wish you'd had a luckier draw than the one that retired you.



Barry Bonds-

Drop dead, you cheap, cheating, selfish, lying prick.

You, McGwire, Palmiero and the rest of the steroid freaks.

Now we're gonna have a national argument about whether or not to re-write the record book, when all we need to do is get after it with a big fucking eraser.

Thanks alot, assholes. :angry:

[Busyman]

RIP, Kirby.

I loved watching you play, and wish you'd had a luckier draw than the one that retired you.



Barry Bonds-

Drop dead, you cheap, cheating, selfish, lying prick.

You, McGwire, Palmiero and the rest of the steroid freaks.

Now we're gonna have a national argument about whether or not to re-write the record book, when all we need to do is get after it with a big fucking eraser.

Thanks alot, assholes. :angry:
Prove Barry took steroids.

Barry Bonds, the home run king!!!

[j2k4]

Prove Barry took steroids.

Barry Bonds, the home run king!!!

I'll assume you're kidding.

[Busyman]

Prove Barry took steroids.

Barry Bonds, the home run king!!!

I'll assume you're kidding.
Oh that's right. A buncha people said so.

The fact is, absent a positive steroid drug test, his record and everyone else's records will stand.

Bonds is one of only players that was immensely great before his home run record.

I hope he breaks Hank Aaron's record and then retires.

[zapjb]

Hank Aaron is the HR King. If bb has any decency left he'll retire before he breaks Hammerin' Hanks record. Cause bb cheated. Hank Aaron could've hit 1500 if he cheated.

[Busyman]

Hank Aaron is the HR King. If bb has any decency left he'll retire before he breaks Hammerin' Hanks record. Cause bb cheated. Hank Aaron could've hit 1500 if he cheated.
Where did he cheat?

[maebach]

I think BB cheated because it took him (I tihnk last year) 2 months to recover from an injury that took a few weeks to recoer from the year before when he wasn't tested.

[Skiz]

I can't remember who said it, but it was one of the very famous black baseball players from the early days. He had a good idea about drugs in baseball.

He said that if a player was caught using any performance inhancing drug prohibited by MLB, that his/her would not be eligible to renew any endorsment contracts, and their previous stats would be erased. If a player had 500 homers and he got busted - sucks to be him, b/c to get to the HoF he'd have to start over.

Kinda harsh, but they've been warned. I'd agree with this I think.

[j2k4]

Y'know, if I was inclined to be really ironic and cynical, I'd say Busyman was being racist on behalf of Mr. Bonds.

But I'm not, so never mind.

Barry Bonds is steroid-free because it has not been proven; so says Busyman.

My eyes deceive.

Oh, well...naive is as naive does. ;)

[j2k4]

Edit: Double post

[Busyman]

Y'know, if I was inclined to be really ironic and cynical, I'd say Busyman was being racist on behalf of Mr. Bonds.

But I'm not, so never mind.

Barry Bonds is steroid-free because it has not been proven; so says Busyman.

My eyes deceive.

Oh, well...naive is as naive does. ;)
You love to bring up the racist card when it has been absent.

You also have a problem reading.

Aren't Mark McGwire and Raphael Palmeiro otherthanblack.
Isn't the HR record already held by a black man?

You are an idiot.

I recall this manufactured outrage when you said I called you a racist when it wasn't even at the very least, IMPLIED. (see Bryant Gumbel thread)

You also said wayyyy back something about, "I would have thought you took me to be a racist." I was like "wtf is j2 talking about?"

edit: Oh and I said nothing about race but I think Bonds (the black guy) has 708 and Ruth (the white guy) has 714. Barring retirement, injury, or death from some racist Bond hater (you out there know who you are), he'll easily get a mere 7 HRs.

I actually don't see him lasting long enough to reach Hank's record.
There are folks out there with comments like...

Drop dead, you cheap, cheating, selfish, lying prick.

[Busyman]

He said that if a player was caught using any performance inhancing drug prohibited by MLB
Uh huh.

[Skiz]

He said that if a player was caught using any performance inhancing drug prohibited by MLB
Uh huh.

:unsure:

[Skiz]

Not saying that what he says is true, but since we're on the topic and I just saw this, I figured I'd let you guys read and sum up your own conclusions:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11719352/

[Busyman]

Not saying that what he says is true, but since we're on the topic and I just saw this, I figured I'd let you guys read and sum up your own conclusions:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11719352/
Based on what McGwire and Palmeiro have said out of their own mouths, Canseco's remarks seem true.

Last I checked though, a drug test is how it's proven and not "I heard that..", "He was a customer...", blahblahblah.

Also if you were to erase the record, do you erase the entire record or back to when the public suspected steroid use?

This is why you need a positive drug test first before exploring anything else. Even with a positive test, when did they use?

I do like how Canseco says to look at baseball's ownership and officials. The MLB has had the most lax rules regarding testing and they allowed certain substances when other sports did not.

[manker]

Didn't Bonds testify in front of a jury and say 'Yeah, I took steroids but I didn't know they were steroids. No siree Bob.' -- and that's the best scenario!

The fact that he's never had a positive test is a testament to the lax regulatory behaviour of the governing body, they didn't want to catch the cheats. Anyone who says that they don't believe that Bonds has taken steroids is a naive idiot.

I think common sense tells even the most disinterested observer (me) that Bonds, along with a lot of his peers, have taken steroids at some point. This era of professional baseball IS the most corrupt era I can think of in any sport that I can remember.

Anyone with a love for the sport should want the records wiped for the past 15 years or so, just based upon what Canesco has said.

This is a sport where statistics are just as important as trophies, therefore there is a way for it to regain some dignity and keep the stats 'clean'. The trophies have been awarded, the teams had their moment of glory - but the records are something that can be taken away. Do away with the 'win at all costs' mentality and look at the larger picture.

For baseball to be perceived with at least some integrity in the eyes of the American public - and the world - it simply has to wipe the records.

[j2k4]

You love to bring up the racist card when it has been absent.

You also have a problem reading.

Aren't Mark McGwire and Raphael Palmeiro otherthanblack.
Isn't the HR record already held by a black man?

You are an idiot.

I recall this manufactured outrage when you said I called you a racist when it wasn't even at the very least, IMPLIED. (see Bryant Gumbel thread)

You also said wayyyy back something about, "I would have thought you took me to be a racist." I was like "wtf is j2 talking about?"

edit: Oh and I said nothing about race but I think Bonds (the black guy) has 708 and Ruth (the white guy) has 714. Barring retirement, injury, or death from some racist Bond hater (you out there know who you are), he'll easily get a mere 7 HRs.



Actually, I don't have a race card to play.

I'm not even black, you see.

I'm so out of touch I have to ask blacks such as yourself if it exists, because I AM aware usage of the charge of racism is the exclusive province of blacks.

I feel compelled now to ask if what I saw previously was a bit of back-pedalling on the part of Mr. Gumbel; he seemed to want to downplay the remarks we had previously discussed...I cannot be sure, however, in the absence of your confirmation.

[manker]

You love to bring up the racist card when it has been absent.

You also have a problem reading.

Aren't Mark McGwire and Raphael Palmeiro otherthanblack.
Isn't the HR record already held by a black man?

You are an idiot.

I recall this manufactured outrage when you said I called you a racist when it wasn't even at the very least, IMPLIED. (see Bryant Gumbel thread)

You also said wayyyy back something about, "I would have thought you took me to be a racist." I was like "wtf is j2 talking about?"

edit: Oh and I said nothing about race but I think Bonds (the black guy) has 708 and Ruth (the white guy) has 714. Barring retirement, injury, or death from some racist Bond hater (you out there know who you are), he'll easily get a mere 7 HRs.



Actually, I don't have a race card to play.

I'm not even black, you see.

I'm so out of touch I have to ask blacks such as yourself if it exists, because I AM aware usage of the charge of racism is the exclusive province of blacks.

I feel compelled now to ask if what I saw previously was a bit of back-pedalling on the part of Mr. Gumbel; he seemed to want to downplay the remarks we had previously discussed...I cannot be sure, however, in the absence of your confirmation.
:lol:

If it makes you feel any better, j2, I called you a racist in the lounge for using a negative Italian stereotype. I'm not black but I feel all one has to do to play the race card is feign indignation.

That's what I do, anyhow. I rather suspect this is how it works 90% of the time for other folk too.

[Barbarossa]

I think it's nice that you get issued with cards. Sort of like the jokers in It's-A-Knockout.

You don't get that with gay-bashing. :dabs:

[Busyman]

Didn't Bonds testify in front of a jury and say 'Yeah, I took steroids but I didn't know they were steroids. No siree Bob.' -- and that's the best scenario!

The fact that he's never had a positive test is a testament to the lax regulatory behaviour of the governing body, they didn't want to catch the cheats. Anyone who says that they don't believe that Bonds has taken steroids is a naive idiot.

I think common sense tells even the most disinterested observer (me) that Bonds, along with a lot of his peers, have taken steroids at some point. This era of professional baseball IS the most corrupt era I can think of in any sport that I can remember.
I totally agree. On the first, I thought he said, if he took them he didn't know it.

Wiping everyone's record is just mad talk, however.

[Busyman]

You love to bring up the racist card when it has been absent.

You also have a problem reading.

Aren't Mark McGwire and Raphael Palmeiro otherthanblack.
Isn't the HR record already held by a black man?

You are an idiot.

I recall this manufactured outrage when you said I called you a racist when it wasn't even at the very least, IMPLIED. (see Bryant Gumbel thread)

You also said wayyyy back something about, "I would have thought you took me to be a racist." I was like "wtf is j2 talking about?"

edit: Oh and I said nothing about race but I think Bonds (the black guy) has 708 and Ruth (the white guy) has 714. Barring retirement, injury, or death from some racist Bond hater (you out there know who you are), he'll easily get a mere 7 HRs.



Actually, I don't have a race card to play.

I'm not even black, you see.

I'm so out of touch I have to ask blacks such as yourself if it exists, because I AM aware usage of the charge of racism is the exclusive province of blacks.

I feel compelled now to ask if what I saw previously was a bit of back-pedalling on the part of Mr. Gumbel; he seemed to want to downplay the remarks we had previously discussed...I cannot be sure, however, in the absence of your confirmation.
Idiot talk again.

You have, to use manker's words, 'feigned indignation' and it comes out of left field. You either..

-had me having you as a racist when there was no evidence of this.

-claimed racism against you when it wasn't even remotely implied.

-accused me of playing a race card when in fact a black, hispanic, and white person are in the same boat.

-and now using the "I can't play the race card 'cause I'm white" crap as a twisted adage when it has no bearing here. I said you brought up the "race card" by basically saying I'm playing it...not you. READ and look up what an implication is.

Using your fucked up logic, one would have thought you to be THE BLACK GUY.

When I said you were an idiot I really meant you were a retard lost in his own verbage.:dry:

[j2k4]

Actually, I don't have a race card to play.

I'm not even black, you see.

I'm so out of touch I have to ask blacks such as yourself if it exists, because I AM aware usage of the charge of racism is the exclusive province of blacks.

I feel compelled now to ask if what I saw previously was a bit of back-pedalling on the part of Mr. Gumbel; he seemed to want to downplay the remarks we had previously discussed...I cannot be sure, however, in the absence of your confirmation.
Idiot talk again.

You have, to use manker's words, 'feigned indignation' and it comes out of left field. You either..

-had me having you as a racist when there was no evidence of this.

-claimed racism against you when it wasn't even remotely implied.

-accused me of playing a race card when in fact a black, hispanic, and white person are in the same boat.

-and now using the "I can't play the race card 'cause I'm white" crap as a twisted adage when it has no bearing here. I said you brought up the "race card" by basically saying I'm playing it...not you. READ and look up what an implication is.

Using your fucked up logic, one would have thought you to be THE BLACK GUY.

When I said you were an idiot I really meant you were a retard lost in his own verbage.:dry:

You really are fucking lost, aren't you?

BTW-it's verbiage, and your urge to mock mine is racist; you cannot deny it. :whistling

There is a word, the meaning of which does not escape you, I'm sure, but which you have tremendous difficulty recognizing in practical use.

The word is subtlety.

[Busyman]

Idiot talk again.

You have, to use manker's words, 'feigned indignation' and it comes out of left field. You either..

-had me having you as a racist when there was no evidence of this.

-claimed racism against you when it wasn't even remotely implied.

-accused me of playing a race card when in fact a black, hispanic, and white person are in the same boat.

-and now using the "I can't play the race card 'cause I'm white" crap as a twisted adage when it has no bearing here. I said you brought up the "race card" by basically saying I'm playing it...not you. READ and look up what an implication is.

Using your fucked up logic, one would have thought you to be THE BLACK GUY.

When I said you were an idiot I really meant you were a retard lost in his own verbage.:dry:

You really are fucking lost, aren't you?

BTW-it's verbiage, and your urge to mock mine is racist; you cannot deny it. :whistling

There is a word, the meaning of which does not escape you, I'm sure, but which you have tremendous difficulty recognizing in practical use.

The word is subtlety.
No I felt verbage more fitting.

Oh and I understand subtlety but just like to cut through it's bullshit and be direct.


Y'know, if I was inclined to be really ironic and cynical

:dry: Yeah IF you were inclined....

[j2k4]

You really are fucking lost, aren't you?

BTW-it's verbiage, and your urge to mock mine is racist; you cannot deny it. :whistling

There is a word, the meaning of which does not escape you, I'm sure, but which you have tremendous difficulty recognizing in practical use.

The word is subtlety.
No I felt verbage more fitting.

Oh and I understand subtlety but just like to cut through it's bullshit and be direct.


Y'know, if I was inclined to be really ironic and cynical

:dry: Yeah IF you were inclined....

I would think, if you insist on giving the impression you are the world's preeminent talent at reading "between the lines", you'd actually have some talent for the game.

Well, I shant persist by attempting to be more obvious than I have, so nevermind.

[Busyman]

No I felt verbage more fitting.

Oh and I understand subtlety but just like to cut through it's bullshit and be direct.


Y'know, if I was inclined to be really ironic and cynical

:dry: Yeah IF you were inclined....

I would think, if you insist on giving the impression you are the world's preeminent talent at reading "between the lines", you'd actually have some talent for the game.

Well, I shant persist by attempting to be more obvious than I have, so nevermind.
Oh just the contrary, you have been verrrry obvious....

....transparent as the stuffy air you exude, in fact.

[j2k4]

No I felt verbage more fitting.

Oh and I understand subtlety but just like to cut through it's bullshit and be direct.



:dry: Yeah IF you were inclined....

I would think, if you insist on giving the impression you are the world's preeminent talent at reading "between the lines", you'd actually have some talent for the game.

Well, I shant persist by attempting to be more obvious than I have, so nevermind.
Oh just the contrary, you have been verrrry obvious....

....transparent as the stuffy air you exude, in fact.

You mis-spelled very.

[Busyman]

I would think, if you insist on giving the impression you are the world's preeminent talent at reading "between the lines", you'd actually have some talent for the game.

Well, I shant persist by attempting to be more obvious than I have, so nevermind.
Oh just the contrary, you have been verrrry obvious....

....transparent as the stuffy air you exude, in fact.

You mis-spelled very.
Rea-lllly!

:huh: :O GTFOOH!:O :huh:

[Busyman]

I find it ironic that no one said shit about wiping the records of any other players juiced up on other drugs in baseball or any other sport for that matter.

I guess steroided HRs are the only things that count....or uh....should'nt count.:ermm:

[j2k4]

I find it ironic that no one said shit about wiping the records of any other players juiced up on other drugs in baseball or any other sport for that matter.

I guess steroided HRs are the only things that count....or uh....should'nt count.:ermm:


Any you'd care to count as "performance-enhancing", I'm with you.

I think that is the point, don't you?

[Busyman]

I find it ironic that no one said shit about wiping the records of any other players juiced up on other drugs in baseball or any other sport for that matter.

I guess steroided HRs are the only things that count....or uh....should'nt count.:ermm:


Any you'd care to count as "performance-enhancing", I'm with you.

I think that is the point, don't you?
Cocaine is quite the performance enhancer.

'Nova beat G'town on it.:)

Does soccer player Maradona have an expunged record now?

Should Willie Mays?

[Skiz]

What did Willie Mays do/take? :huh:

[Busyman]

What did Willie Mays do/take? :huh:
That fact you don't know proves my point.:happy:

[Skiz]

What did Willie Mays do/take? :huh:
That fact you don't know proves my point.:happy:

...and what point does that prove again?

It certainly doesn't change my stance on the drug issue in sports. I don't care who took what. Until these players start realizing that the people are fed up with them and their actions, nothing will change.

If Willie Mays took something, it's a bit hard to prove at this point unless he's admitting to it. Perhaps he took steroids back then and then passed the practice of using it on to his nephew.

[j2k4]

What did Willie Mays do/take? :huh:
That fact you don't know proves my point.:happy:

Mays was the best player I've ever seen.

660 drug-free home-runs, too.

[Busyman]

That fact you don't know proves my point.:happy:

...and what point does that prove again?

It certainly doesn't change my stance on the drug issue in sports. I don't care who took what. Until these players start realizing that the people are fed up with them and their actions, nothing will change.

If Willie Mays took something, it's a bit hard to prove at this point unless he's admitting to it. Perhaps he took steroids back then and then passed the practice of using it on to his nephew.
Yes he admitted it. So do we expunge his record or what?

Many seem to miss a logistical point here.

1. Performance enhancers aren't just steroids.

2. Drug test is positive for a player. He gets suspended. You don't know how long he's been on drugs to expunge a record.

3. Drug test is negative for a player. However, a bunch people say he took drugs. How do you expunge a record based on "he said so"?

4. If you are going to expunge records, why are steroids the only group that makes the cut for the reason for it.

I didn't hear shit about this when Mark McGwire hit those HRs and admitted to taking Andro and baseball was the only major sport to allow it.

[Skiz]

...and what point does that prove again?

It certainly doesn't change my stance on the drug issue in sports. I don't care who took what. Until these players start realizing that the people are fed up with them and their actions, nothing will change.

If Willie Mays took something, it's a bit hard to prove at this point unless he's admitting to it. Perhaps he took steroids back then and then passed the practice of using it on to his nephew.
Yes he admitted it. So do we expunge his record or what?

Many seem to miss a logistical point here.

1. Performance enhancers aren't just steroids.

2. Drug test is positive for a player. He gets suspended. You don't know how long he's been on drugs to expunge a record.

3. Drug test is negative for a player. However, a bunch people say he took drugs. How do you expunge a record based on "he said so"?

4. If you are going to expunge records, why are steroids the only group that makes the cut for the reason for it.

I didn't hear shit about this when Mark McGwire hit those HRs and admitted to taking Andro and baseball was the only major sport to allow it.

1. I never said it was limited to roids. :huh:

2. You don't just expunge the record while the player has been on the dope. You wipe the stats/records of that players entire professional career. I know it seems harsh, but it will get the job done and that's the point. I don't want to hear any boo-hoo'ing because we're telling them publicly and contractually - 'If you do this, this will happen.'

3. We convict criminals and sentence their lives based on witness accounts, we can't do it for a player in sports? :ermm:

4. I never said steroids would be the only drug group. The league needs to establish a sensible list of drugs that they will not tolerate and hold the players to keeping clean.

[Busyman]

Yes he admitted it. So do we expunge his record or what?

Many seem to miss a logistical point here.

1. Performance enhancers aren't just steroids.

2. Drug test is positive for a player. He gets suspended. You don't know how long he's been on drugs to expunge a record.

3. Drug test is negative for a player. However, a bunch people say he took drugs. How do you expunge a record based on "he said so"?

4. If you are going to expunge records, why are steroids the only group that makes the cut for the reason for it.

I didn't hear shit about this when Mark McGwire hit those HRs and admitted to taking Andro and baseball was the only major sport to allow it.

1. I never said it was limited to roids. :huh:

2. You don't just expunge the record while the player has been on the dope. You wipe the stats/records of that players entire professional career. I know it seems harsh, but it will get the job done and that's the point. I don't want to hear any boo-hoo'ing because we're telling them publicly and contractually - 'If you do this, this will happen.'

3. We convict criminals and sentence their lives based on witness accounts, we can't do it for a player in sports? :ermm:

4. I never said steroids would be the only drug group. The league needs to establish a sensible list of drugs that they will not tolerate and hold the players to keeping clean.
1. I never said YOU did.

2. Funny I never heard this before Barry Bonds...ya know....erasing history. I guess Ricky Williams entire professional history should be erased? That's mad talk.

3. Are you nuts? There's a way of doing things in professional sports. It goes with a CONTRACT. For instne Mark McGwire was given a free pass when he admitted to using andro 'cause it wasn't banned by baseball per CONTRACT.
So if eight people said Barry Bonds used steroids and the CONTRACT has no provision for "he said" then STFU. Absent a positive drug test, STFU.

4. That's already been done. Again not a peep heard before about expunging records.

Tbh, as far as getting the job done, it has been done. Stiffen the penalty to being suspended for the year or getting permanently booted from the league.

A player would be mad to use steroids now. I would almost think he was slipped the stuff at this point.

You seem to be quite ignorant of baseball's upper management roll in the steroid fiasco.

[Skiz]

I am quite uninformed. Nonetheless, I'm merely stating my opinion on the matter.



I guess Ricky Williams entire professional history should be erased?

I hardly consider pot a "performance enhancing drug". That is what the thread is about. :unsure:

[Busyman]

I am quite uninformed. Nonetheless, I'm merely stating my opinion on the matter.



I guess Ricky Williams entire professional history should be erased?

I hardly consider pot a "performance enhancing drug". That is what the thread is about. :unsure:
I must agree. I'd consider weed is a performance reducer not enhancer.

Quite informed? Maybe so but you sing the same tune for recent stuff but are in contradiction with stuff before it.

You are willing to erase anyone's record based on "he said" although the expunging goes against the rules of the game. I bet you think congessional hearings were a good idea too.

Sounds rather dumb.

You all make a stink about a fella hitting the ball outta the park 'cause he's artificially stronger yet I hear I shit about the fella who was on coke or amphetamines that had faster reaction time, even ran faster, or took more chances ftw.

Sound like bullshit to men or maybe it's only because Bonds is breaking records.

Notice I said Bonds. Not Mark or Raphael. Mark made the admission about andro and nothing. Record solidified. Oh but andro wasn't banned per CONTRACT. Oh well "he said" isn't in there either.:dry:

[Skiz]

I am quite uninformed. Nonetheless, I'm merely stating my opinion on the matter.




I hardly consider pot a "performance enhancing drug". That is what the thread is about. :unsure:
I must agree. I'd consider weed is a performance reducer not enhancer.

Quite informed? Maybe so but you sing the same tune for recent stuff but are in contradiction with stuff before it.

I believe I said I was uninformed.

[j2k4]

I'll go out on your limb, Busyman.

Throw andro in if you want; McGwire damaged himself irreparably with the taint of his appearance before the Senate, as did the rest.

We had Palmiero's ass on a platter (denied, then caught) and he's right back in there.

Management looked the other way, but I think their fortunes are subject to the spending habits of the fans, as, ultimately, are the players.

The controversy centers around the fact that while record books outlive those who create them, an asterisk can live as long as the record book; so, you see, that is what we're arguing about.

Go ahead, let Bonds break the record, but put an asterisk next to his name (as well as all the other "suspects") noting that "This player exhibited every sign and characteristic of steroid use that resulted in drastically-increased home-run production for several years of his career, along with a subsequent decrease in home-run production when suspicions of steroid (or other performance-enhancing drug) use caused the player public discomfiture, and made their drug-use inconvenient.

I'd be satisfied with that.

BTW-I'd say anecdotal/visual/statistical evidence of all these ballplayers' misdeeds is quite substancial, wouldn't you?

Yet you refuse to condemn Bonds, insisting we further examine McGwire...

[Busyman]

I'll go out on your limb, Busyman.

Throw andro in if you want; McGwire damaged himself irreparably with the taint of his appearance before the Senate, as did the rest.

We had Palmiero's ass on a platter (denied, then caught) and he's right back in there.

Management looked the other way, but I think their fortunes are subject to the spending habits of the fans, as, ultimately, are the players.

The controversy centers around the fact that while record books outlive those who create them, an asterisk can live as long as the record book; so, you see, that is what we're arguing about.

Go ahead, let Bonds break the record, but put an asterisk next to his name (as well as all the other "suspects") noting that "This player exhibited every sign and characteristic of steroid use that resulted in drastically-increased home-run production for several years of his career, along with a subsequent decrease in home-run production when suspicions of steroid (or other performance-enhancing drug) use caused the player public discomfiture, and made their drug-use inconvenient.

I'd be satisfied with that.

BTW-I'd say anecdotal/visual/statistical evidence of all these ballplayers' misdeeds is quite substancial, wouldn't you?

Yet you refuse to condemn Bonds, insisting we further examine McGwire...
There you go again making no sense.
Who said McGwire need further examination?:blink:

I said McGwire's HRs were overlooked despite his admission of using a substance banned in every other sport.

He doesn't needed further examination.

First you say WIPE records based on suspicion now you say put an asterisk based on suspicion. Make your mind up.

Then you have a double standard by making steroid use the only performance enhancer worth your ire.

It sounds funny when I hear, "Bud Selig is going to take a look at the newly released book to see what he'll do with Bonds."

WTF?!

Selig- "Well Bonds, I'm going to have to suspend you. The book had some damaging stuff in it."

Bonds - "The book is a drug test?"

Selig - "Well no. It just sounded really convincing."

:dry:

[j2k4]

First you say WIPE records based on suspicion now you say put an asterisk based on suspicion. Make your mind up.



WTF yourself, dumbshit.

In case you haven't tumbled to the fact, I don't control what happens with the record book, and if I did, we would not be discussing it; I've couched the "erasure" idea as optimal, in my opinion.

I propose the "asterisk" scenario as a realstic and fitting outcome.

You must realize how this "I can't be bothered to read the whole thread" thingie seriously handicaps you...

[Busyman]

First you say WIPE records based on suspicion now you say put an asterisk based on suspicion. Make your mind up.



WTF yourself, dumbshit.

In case you haven't tumbled to the fact, I don't control what happens with the record book, and if I did, we would not be discussing it; I've couched the "erasure" idea as optimal, in my opinion.

I propose the "asterisk" scenario as a realstic and fitting outcome.

You must realize how this "I can't be bothered to read the whole thread" thingie seriously handicaps you...
Cool, your proposal makes no sense.

[manker]

WTF yourself, dumbshit.

In case you haven't tumbled to the fact, I don't control what happens with the record book, and if I did, we would not be discussing it; I've couched the "erasure" idea as optimal, in my opinion.

I propose the "asterisk" scenario as a realstic and fitting outcome.

You must realize how this "I can't be bothered to read the whole thread" thingie seriously handicaps you...
Cool, your proposal makes no sense.Seems like a fantastic idea to me.

Could you explain why you consider that putting a simple asterisk next to Bonds' name in the record books is not a reasonable compromise.

[Busyman]

Cool, your proposal makes no sense.Seems like a fantastic idea to me.

Could you explain why you consider that putting a simple asterisk next to Bonds' name in the record books is not a reasonable compromise.
1. There's has been no proof.

2. This wasn't done with previous rule breakers.

The asterisks and expunging would have to be retroactive to every player in the history of the game.

Sorry to say it but the case for the above would apply to folks with positive tests and admissions.

I honestly think people sound mad with the "he was highly suspected" stuff.

The Villanova basketball team beat Goergetown in the NCAA Championship and there were rumors and witness accounts of psome players being on drugs ftw.

However, no proof of it existed and their win stood.

I can't all of a sudden change my stance on proof in a mere sport (this is not government) 'cause Babe Ruth's record is about to be broken.....again :dry:

Maybe this would held more water with me if this stance was taken before with most other drugs.

It seems this is a "special case" because of Bonds. Bonds has received death threats before he broke the HR records and he receives them now. I am not surprised over the "outrage".

The "outrage" is very late considering what has transpired in sport previous to this debacle.

My consistent stance is that even if a player tests positive now, I wouldn't wipe or asterisk the records.

I would either suspend them for a year or even ban them from the sport. History will remember what transpired. No asterisk needed.

Funny that in Bonds' case, so far "he said" has transpired.

I'm surprised no one mentioned wiping the record for that season.

[j2k4]

My consistent stance is that even if a player tests positive now, I wouldn't wipe or asterisk the records.

I would either suspend them for a year or even ban them from the sport. History will remember what transpired. No asterisk needed.

Funny that in Bonds' case, so far "he said" has transpired.

I'm surprised no one mentioned wiping the record for that season.

Hank Aaron had death threats, too; many more than Bonds, I'm sure.

It has been reported Bonds has failed drug tests, and more than once, too.

He and the owners have successfully stonewalled any attempt to access the records, and all he need do is deny, deny, deny, and history will record otherwise.

Well, yeah, Barry did it while it wasn't against the rules, after all, and McGwire did the same; Jose was legal as far as Big League ball was concerned, too.

Fuck it; let it slide.

[Busyman]

My consistent stance is that even if a player tests positive now, I wouldn't wipe or asterisk the records.

I would either suspend them for a year or even ban them from the sport. History will remember what transpired. No asterisk needed.

Funny that in Bonds' case, so far "he said" has transpired.

I'm surprised no one mentioned wiping the record for that season.

Hank Aaron had death threats, too; many more than Bonds, I'm sure.

It has been reported Bonds has failed drug tests, and more than once, too.

He and the owners have successfully stonewalled any attempt to access the records, and all he need do is deny, deny, deny, and history will record otherwise.

Well, yeah, Barry did it while it wasn't against the rules, after all, and McGwire did the same; Jose was legal as far as Big League ball was concerned, too.

Fuck it; let it slide.
I dunno. Maybe Congress will get involved...again.:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Skiz]

There are no steroids in baseball, only players Chuck Norris has breathed on. :shifty:

[Busyman]

In the book, the author claims Barry Bonds remarked to Ken Griffey Jr. that he was going to start using "some hardcore stuff" to increase his hitting power.

Ken Griffey doesn't recall such a remark and doesn't know how the author obtained the quote.

In spring training, Bonds was 3 for 3 with one homer against the Rangers.

Oh and should Sammy Sosa have his record wiped too?

He did hit alota HRs and then there was that corked bat............

[RPerry]

Baseball to launch steroid investigation

NEW YORK (AP) - Major League Baseball will investigate alleged steroid use by Barry Bonds (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/85852) and other players, and plans to hire U.S. Senate majority leader George Mitchell to lead the effort.

A baseball official told The Associated Press on Wednesday that final plans were to be announced Thursday. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because commissioner Bud Selig has not yet made his intentions public.
Selig's decision to launch the probe, first reported Wednesday by ESPN, comes in the wake of "Game of Shadows," a book by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters detailing alleged extensive steroid use by Bonds and other baseball stars. The commissioner has said for several weeks that he was evaluating how to respond to the book.
Some in Congress have called for an independent investigation. Mitchell, a Maine Democrat and a director of the Boston Red Sox (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71588), has been a director of the Florida Marlins (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71614) and served on an economic study committee that Selig appointed in 1999.
Mitchell's possible involvement was first mentioned Wednesday in The New York Times. The name of a lawyer who will run the mechanics of the probe also was to be announced.
No matter what the findings of an investigation, it would be difficult for baseball to penalize anyone for steroids used prior to Sept. 30, 2002, when a joint drug agreement between management and the players' association took effect. Baseball began drug testing in 2003 and started testing with penalties the following year.
"I will only comment on things about Barry's on-field performance or contractual status," said his agent, Jeff Borris.
It is unclear whether current or former players would cooperate with an investigation or could be forced to do so by baseball. Gene Orza, the chief operating officer of the Major League Baseball Players Association, declined comment.
Under pressure from Congress, baseball toughened penalties last year and again this season, when an initial positive test will result in a 50-game suspension. Twelve players, including Rafael Palmeiro (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/85374), were suspended for 10 days each following positive tests last year.
"Game of Shadows" details alleged used of performance-enhancing drugs by Bonds for at least five seasons beginning after the 1998 season.
Former commissioner Fay Vincent called this month for an investigation and suggested it be headed by Mitchell or John Dowd, who led baseball's 1989 probe into gambling by career hits leader Pete Rose, who agreed to a lifetime ban.
"I think the investigation is the right step," Vincent said. "I don't think the issue is punishment, I think it's: 'Shouldn't the players be called to task for cheating, even if there is no punishment?' I think baseball has to recapture the moral high ground."
An after-hours message left for Mitchell at his New York office was not immediately returned Wednesday. The New York Daily News first reported March 16 that Selig would launch an investigation, but Selig said no decision had been made at the time.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5456420

[j2k4]

Baseball to launch steroid investigation

NEW YORK (AP) - Major League Baseball will investigate alleged steroid use by Barry Bonds (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/85852) and other players, and plans to hire U.S. Senate majority leader George Mitchell to lead the effort.

A baseball official told The Associated Press on Wednesday that final plans were to be announced Thursday. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because commissioner Bud Selig has not yet made his intentions public.
Selig's decision to launch the probe, first reported Wednesday by ESPN, comes in the wake of "Game of Shadows," a book by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters detailing alleged extensive steroid use by Bonds and other baseball stars. The commissioner has said for several weeks that he was evaluating how to respond to the book.
Some in Congress have called for an independent investigation. Mitchell, a Maine Democrat and a director of the Boston Red Sox (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71588), has been a director of the Florida Marlins (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71614) and served on an economic study committee that Selig appointed in 1999.
Mitchell's possible involvement was first mentioned Wednesday in The New York Times. The name of a lawyer who will run the mechanics of the probe also was to be announced.
No matter what the findings of an investigation, it would be difficult for baseball to penalize anyone for steroids used prior to Sept. 30, 2002, when a joint drug agreement between management and the players' association took effect. Baseball began drug testing in 2003 and started testing with penalties the following year.
"I will only comment on things about Barry's on-field performance or contractual status," said his agent, Jeff Borris.
It is unclear whether current or former players would cooperate with an investigation or could be forced to do so by baseball. Gene Orza, the chief operating officer of the Major League Baseball Players Association, declined comment.
Under pressure from Congress, baseball toughened penalties last year and again this season, when an initial positive test will result in a 50-game suspension. Twelve players, including Rafael Palmeiro (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/85374), were suspended for 10 days each following positive tests last year.
"Game of Shadows" details alleged used of performance-enhancing drugs by Bonds for at least five seasons beginning after the 1998 season.
Former commissioner Fay Vincent called this month for an investigation and suggested it be headed by Mitchell or John Dowd, who led baseball's 1989 probe into gambling by career hits leader Pete Rose, who agreed to a lifetime ban.
"I think the investigation is the right step," Vincent said. "I don't think the issue is punishment, I think it's: 'Shouldn't the players be called to task for cheating, even if there is no punishment?' I think baseball has to recapture the moral high ground."
An after-hours message left for Mitchell at his New York office was not immediately returned Wednesday. The New York Daily News first reported March 16 that Selig would launch an investigation, but Selig said no decision had been made at the time.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5456420

Uh-oh.

Of course, foxsports cannot be considered a "fair and balanced" source.

The story is likely a total fabrication. :D

[Busyman]

Baseball to launch steroid investigation

NEW YORK (AP) - Major League Baseball will investigate alleged steroid use by Barry Bonds (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/85852) and other players, and plans to hire U.S. Senate majority leader George Mitchell to lead the effort.

A baseball official told The Associated Press on Wednesday that final plans were to be announced Thursday. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because commissioner Bud Selig has not yet made his intentions public.
Selig's decision to launch the probe, first reported Wednesday by ESPN, comes in the wake of "Game of Shadows," a book by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters detailing alleged extensive steroid use by Bonds and other baseball stars. The commissioner has said for several weeks that he was evaluating how to respond to the book.
Some in Congress have called for an independent investigation. Mitchell, a Maine Democrat and a director of the Boston Red Sox (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71588), has been a director of the Florida Marlins (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71614) and served on an economic study committee that Selig appointed in 1999.
Mitchell's possible involvement was first mentioned Wednesday in The New York Times. The name of a lawyer who will run the mechanics of the probe also was to be announced.
No matter what the findings of an investigation, it would be difficult for baseball to penalize anyone for steroids used prior to Sept. 30, 2002, when a joint drug agreement between management and the players' association took effect. Baseball began drug testing in 2003 and started testing with penalties the following year.
"I will only comment on things about Barry's on-field performance or contractual status," said his agent, Jeff Borris.
It is unclear whether current or former players would cooperate with an investigation or could be forced to do so by baseball. Gene Orza, the chief operating officer of the Major League Baseball Players Association, declined comment.
Under pressure from Congress, baseball toughened penalties last year and again this season, when an initial positive test will result in a 50-game suspension. Twelve players, including Rafael Palmeiro (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/85374), were suspended for 10 days each following positive tests last year.
"Game of Shadows" details alleged used of performance-enhancing drugs by Bonds for at least five seasons beginning after the 1998 season.
Former commissioner Fay Vincent called this month for an investigation and suggested it be headed by Mitchell or John Dowd, who led baseball's 1989 probe into gambling by career hits leader Pete Rose, who agreed to a lifetime ban.
"I think the investigation is the right step," Vincent said. "I don't think the issue is punishment, I think it's: 'Shouldn't the players be called to task for cheating, even if there is no punishment?' I think baseball has to recapture the moral high ground."
An after-hours message left for Mitchell at his New York office was not immediately returned Wednesday. The New York Daily News first reported March 16 that Selig would launch an investigation, but Selig said no decision had been made at the time.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5456420

Uh-oh.

Of course, foxsports cannot be considered a "fair and balanced" source.

The story is likely a total fabrication. :D
The story came from the Associated Press.:ermm: There has been speculation for awhile now.

[j2k4]

The story came from the Associated Press.:ermm: There has been speculation for awhile now.

Yes, but the link says "foxsports".

[RPerry]

The story came from the Associated Press.:ermm: There has been speculation for awhile now.
Yes, but the link says "foxsports".

Now that the story has been found credible, does that mean Foxsports can be considered "fair and blanced" ? :huh:

[j2k4]

Yes, but the link says "foxsports".

Now that the story has been found credible, does that mean Foxsports can be considered "fair and blanced" ? :huh:

Ask a liberal.

[Busyman]

Yes, but the link says "foxsports".

Now that the story has been found credible, does that mean Foxsports can be considered "fair and blanced" ? :huh:
Yeah reported a story that everyone else had...from another news outlet.:lol: :lol:

Hey maybe someone can link to filesharingtalk for this story and we can say filesharingtalk reported the story.:mellow: