The U.S. has been touted as the "Greatest Country on Earth"...

[j2k4]

...now and again, within and without it's borders.

What do you think?

Please note your country of origin...

[captain_azad]

Prey tell where this book/article/column was published....

[100%]

1. Does america realize that it has borders?
2. I still want an answer to my thread about the armistance deal to force import american culture(movies) to europe.
3.Define "great(est)" and then define why Botswana is Greater.
4. Define "provoke via rod"

Sorry you are not the greatest - personally i find Holland more realistic.

This morning i woke up and felt great, went to shop and had a great conversation with with its owner who told me about the great things he had done in his life while he gave me the great reduction on the bill i owed him,he is a great guy
Great almost spelt like Create
to bad

Nice Rod you got me

[Ava Estelle]

l've never heard anyone but Americans make that claim, am l missing something? Personally, l have no desire to even visit the place again, l certainly wouldn't live there. Australia is the greatest country to live in, and we have more freedoms than you lot, something you'll no doubt find difficult to grasp.

[Busyman]

Usually folks in their respective countries say that their's is the best place to live.

As far as who may want to make their own way in a country, I don't hear much "I want to make it in Australia, Canada, or France" but that's only from my POV in America.

America was built on "Hey come on over and make your way." However, other countries have immigrants too. :idunno:

The U.S. has been touted as the "Greatest Country on Earth"...by an American.

No shit.

[j2k4]

Everything everybody says about America is true to one extent or another.

What I'm wondering is why anyone says it at all, given how most seem to feel.

Does altruism exist to the same extent in America as it does in other countries?

There is a dynamic which guides all international commentary thus, and it is quite true that the U.S. is under the microscope as no other country is.

I wonder what such minute examination might reveal if other countries were given a look?

After all, it is a common claim we here in the states are ignorant of other places, yes?

Let's hear what we are missing.

BTW-this thread was not formulated as a rod; it was meant to be explorative.

[Barbarossa]

The USA is the most powerful and influential country in the world. I don't believe that makes it the "greatest" though. Different countries have different things to offer, and some do certain things better than they are done in the U.S.

There is always room for improvement. However, as an overall package, the USA is above average :)

[Skweeky1]

Can't really say as I've never been there.
I'm Belgian myself, but I live in Scotland so I suppose I've got the advantage to have seen two very different cultures from up close.

I have a rather negative image of America. There's nothing really that attracts me there ( except the Guggenheim museum) and most of the Americans I speak to have a very different idea about ethics, morals, emotions than I have. I've always found it very difficult to communicate with Americans on an objective level ( bar yourself j2k4 and a few other people around here).

Then again, all I ever hear in the media about the States is always in a negative spotlight. The Brits aren't too happy about the USA, neither are the Belgians. Also, I come from a rather left socialist orientated background which may influence my opinion.

I think the country has become a bit of a farce almost. It's hard to find anything unbiased about it. Or maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

One thing I'd like to say though.

The past couple of days I've been watching a programme called ' Let's talk sex' presented by Davina McCall. It's about how teenagers in Britain deal with sex, and to be honest. I am appalled.

I never realised sex ed wasn't compulsory on the curriculum here and I cannot believe that the country with the higest rate of teenage pregnancies in Europe still hasn't installed it!
One of the teenage boys they were talking about honestly thought women laid eggs..

I would love to have kids but there's no way on earth I will raise them in a country that is too prude and backeards to teach kids about sex when obviously it is a necessity.


I seem to have deviated from the subject here. Sorry :)

[Busyman]

The USA is the most powerful and influential country in the world. I don't believe that makes it the "greatest" though. Different countries have different things to offer, and some do certain things better than they are done in the U.S.

There is always room for improvement. However, as an overall package, the USA is above average :)
Your last sentence is a good summation. Before that, I was to ask you what one country does all of those "certain things" better than the US.

From what I understand, foreigners on this board have the conception that it is so dangerous here 'cause folks have guns..as if the lot of them will be walking and just get hit by a bullet. The fact is those are isolated incidents just they are over there and there isn't a lot to be scared of. There are bad areas here just like anywhere else and there are maniacs.

Tbh, I wouldn't grasp that a traveler wouldn't want to come here besides their own ill-conceived notions. Hell I'll be going to the UK maybe in '09.

America has a different dynamic than other countries in that there's so many places for us to visit within the country. There are places that are on the list of "must go-to at least once" like Las Vegas, NYC, Disneyworld, Niagara Falls, etc. If I lived in a small European country, I'd wanna GTFO too. Some of those countries are the size of our states.

[manker]

The reason for the altruism is simply because the US' foreign policy affects the rest of the world, because of its military and economic clout. If the US goes into recession, then it will affect the economic climate in my part of the world, so I might comment upon that, because it interests me.

'I just wish they didn't spend so much on the military'.

If the US President issues a statement which groups vast swathes of people as being part of an ungodly collective, I might discuss the folly of doing so because the repercussions might affect me in terms of the UK being an ally of the US.

'Was the axis-of-evil phrase really necessary'.

The UK, and other countries, doesn't have so much impact with its decisions, so this altruism doesn't exist amongst Americans.



As to the 'greatness' of the US. apart from it being a powerful economic and military force, I don't think it's so great. The 'must visit' places noted above don't register whatsover. I'm not put off travelling somewhere by any perceived danger as I go to the Middle East a couple of times a year, at least I did up until recently ... but the places in the US just aren't very interesting.

The US has basically no history or culture that it can call its own, so makes up for this with rampant commercialism.

I really don't see anything great about that.

[Cheese]

Great countries have 'great' in their names.

[Busyman]

The reason for the altruism is simply because the US' foreign policy affects the rest of the world, because of its military and economic clout. If the US goes into recession, then it will affect the economic climate in my part of the world, so I might comment upon that, because it interests me.

'I just wish they didn't spend so much on the military'.

If the US President issues a statement which groups vast swathes of people as being part of an ungodly collective, I might discuss the folly of doing so because the repercussions might affect me in terms of the UK being an ally of the US.

'Was the axis-of-evil phrase really necessary'.

The UK, and other countries, doesn't have so much impact with its decisions, so this altruism doesn't exist amongst Americans.



As to the 'greatness' of the US. apart from it being a powerful economic and military force, I don't think it's so great. The 'must visit' places noted above don't register whatsover. I'm not put off travelling somewhere by any perceived danger as I go to the Middle East a couple of times a year, at least I did up until recently ... but the places in the US just aren't very interesting.

The US has basically no history or culture that it can call its own, so makes up for this with rampant commercialism.

I really don't see anything great about that.
Some of that probably makes sense as to why we in general don't pay much attention to the inner workings of rest of world.

Some people forget that America is a huge country (I think third largest:unsure: ) and is very diverse. The 'must visit' places above are American's 'must visit' places.

One thing also is that we are separated by water. Americans are more likely to vacation within the country, go to Mexico, Canada, or the Caribbean than cross the water. Many are content to stay on our side of the world. The ME is really on your side of the world. I don't care to ever go there 'cause my vacations are mainly about having and relaxing and not necessarily visiting different cultures. I'll visit different cultures on my cruise in May.:P

We aren't even likely to go to Hawaii on a whim. To fucking expensive (I'm planning my honeymoon there, however). Timeshares FTW!

I think greatness comes from quality of your life where you reside. That is what you make of it. I can only judge how I'd live elsewhere compared to here. Visiting there doesn't cut it. The islands I'll going to (plus Mexico) seem like great places to visit but I think my quality of life if I live there would be
some shit.

Take for instance where I live now. I almost moved out in westbubblefuck Maryland but I like being able to get to the metropolitan area without driving an hour. I also like seclusion. I got lucky and got both. I'm in a secluded wooded area away enough from businesses, traffic, clumped crime, yet I can get to Downtown DC in 30 minutes, the subway in 15, Baltimore (another metro area) in 45, Virginia in 10, North Beach in 35, and so forth.

I think most are content with where they live. I know I don't see my quality of life being upgraded by moving to Europe. However, I'd probably never get an inkling of what that would be like. Tourist attractions don't count. I only can go on maybe the "numbers", how I hear and see others living, and how satisfied and ultra confortable I am here in comparison.:)

Oh and commercial feces are great in that it pays for shit or drive costs down. A fella can open a business and then 5 more will open to compete. A success story could be you. Many folks I know have made money (besides drug selling :dry:) from a small business at one time or another. I remember Karl Kani selling clothes out of the trunk of his car before seeing them in stores. I had a full-fledged studio where I used to make $400 a week without blinking and I was still in high school with a normal job. The real success stories are the ones that keeping going, stay motivated, and don't get sidetracked.

[Busyman]

Great countries have 'great' in their names.
What country has that?:blink:

[Cheese]

Great countries have 'great' in their names. What country has that?:blink:

Do you really not know? That is a bit tragic. :(

[Barbarossa]

I'm not making any promises on the accuracy of any of these, but this website has a vast array of lists and league tables:

http://www.aneki.com/lists.html

[Busyman]

What country has that?:blink:

Do you really not know? That is a bit tragic. :(
No. I know of no country with the word "great" in it.:1eye:

Great United States of America
Great Canada
Great England
Great Japan
Great Ireland
Great Brazil
Great Mexico
Great Spain
Great Turkey
Great China
Great Russia (there was the term Mother Russia or something like that)
Great Vietnam
Great Italy
Great Germany
Great JumpingJohosaFat!!

Oic

[manker]

I think the English translation of the official title of Libya has 'great' in there somewhere :dabs:

[manker]

The reason for the altruism is simply because the US' foreign policy affects the rest of the world, because of its military and economic clout. If the US goes into recession, then it will affect the economic climate in my part of the world, so I might comment upon that, because it interests me.

'I just wish they didn't spend so much on the military'.

If the US President issues a statement which groups vast swathes of people as being part of an ungodly collective, I might discuss the folly of doing so because the repercussions might affect me in terms of the UK being an ally of the US.

'Was the axis-of-evil phrase really necessary'.

The UK, and other countries, doesn't have so much impact with its decisions, so this altruism doesn't exist amongst Americans.



As to the 'greatness' of the US. apart from it being a powerful economic and military force, I don't think it's so great. The 'must visit' places noted above don't register whatsover. I'm not put off travelling somewhere by any perceived danger as I go to the Middle East a couple of times a year, at least I did up until recently ... but the places in the US just aren't very interesting.

The US has basically no history or culture that it can call its own, so makes up for this with rampant commercialism.

I really don't see anything great about that.
Some of that probably makes sense as to why we in general don't pay much attention to the inner workings of rest of world.

Some people forget that America is a huge country (I think third largest:unsure: ) and is very diverse. The 'must visit' places above are American's 'must visit' places.

One thing also is that we are separated by water. Americans are more likely to vacation within the country, go to Mexico, Canada, or the Caribbean than cross the water. Many are content to stay on our side of the world. The ME is really on your side of the world. I don't care to ever go there 'cause my vacations are mainly about having and relaxing and not necessarily visiting different cultures. I'll visit different cultures on my cruise in May.:P

We aren't even likely to go to Hawaii on a whim. To fucking expensive (I'm planning my honeymoon there, however). Timeshares FTW!

I think greatness comes from quality of your life where you reside. That is what you make of it. I can only judge how I'd live elsewhere compared to here. Visiting there doesn't cut it. The islands I'll going to (plus Mexico) seem like great places to visit but I think my quality of life if I live there would be
some shit.

Take for instance where I live now. I almost moved out in westbubblefuck Maryland but I like being able to get to the metropolitan area without driving an hour. I also like seclusion. I got lucky and got both. I'm in a secluded wooded area away enough from businesses, traffic, clumped crime, yet I can get to Downtown DC in 30 minutes, the subway in 15, Baltimore (another metro area) in 45, Virginia in 10, North Beach in 35, and so forth.

I think most are content with where they live. I know I don't see my quality of life being upgraded by moving to Europe. However, I'd probably never get an inkling of what that would be like. Tourist attractions don't count. I only can go on maybe the "numbers", how I hear and see others living, and how satisfied and ultra confortable I am here in comparison.:)

Oh and commercial feces are great in that it pays for shit or drive costs down. A fella can open a business and then 5 more will open to compete. A success story could be you. Many folks I know have made money (besides drug selling :dry:) from a small business at one time or another. I remember Karl Kani selling clothes out of the trunk of his car before seeing them in stores. I had a full-fledged studio where I used to make $400 a week without blinking and I was still in high school with a normal job. The real success stories are the ones that keeping going, stay motivated, and don't get sidetracked.
Yeah, you're mainly talking about economics there.

My contradictions to its 'greatness' were of a more qualitative nature.

[Busyman]

I think the English translation of the official title of Libya has 'great' in there somewhere :dabs:
That's part of a vagina, silly.

[Busyman]

Some of that probably makes sense as to why we in general don't pay much attention to the inner workings of rest of world.

Some people forget that America is a huge country (I think third largest:unsure: ) and is very diverse. The 'must visit' places above are American's 'must visit' places.

One thing also is that we are separated by water. Americans are more likely to vacation within the country, go to Mexico, Canada, or the Caribbean than cross the water. Many are content to stay on our side of the world. The ME is really on your side of the world. I don't care to ever go there 'cause my vacations are mainly about having and relaxing and not necessarily visiting different cultures. I'll visit different cultures on my cruise in May.:P

We aren't even likely to go to Hawaii on a whim. To fucking expensive (I'm planning my honeymoon there, however). Timeshares FTW!

I think greatness comes from quality of your life where you reside. That is what you make of it. I can only judge how I'd live elsewhere compared to here. Visiting there doesn't cut it. The islands I'll going to (plus Mexico) seem like great places to visit but I think my quality of life if I live there would be
some shit.

Take for instance where I live now. I almost moved out in westbubblefuck Maryland but I like being able to get to the metropolitan area without driving an hour. I also like seclusion. I got lucky and got both. I'm in a secluded wooded area away enough from businesses, traffic, clumped crime, yet I can get to Downtown DC in 30 minutes, the subway in 15, Baltimore (another metro area) in 45, Virginia in 10, North Beach in 35, and so forth.

I think most are content with where they live. I know I don't see my quality of life being upgraded by moving to Europe. However, I'd probably never get an inkling of what that would be like. Tourist attractions don't count. I only can go on maybe the "numbers", how I hear and see others living, and how satisfied and ultra confortable I am here in comparison.:)

Oh and commercial feces are great in that it pays for shit or drive costs down. A fella can open a business and then 5 more will open to compete. A success story could be you. Many folks I know have made money (besides drug selling :dry:) from a small business at one time or another. I remember Karl Kani selling clothes out of the trunk of his car before seeing them in stores. I had a full-fledged studio where I used to make $400 a week without blinking and I was still in high school with a normal job. The real success stories are the ones that keeping going, stay motivated, and don't get sidetracked.
Yeah, you're mainly talking about economics there.

My contradictions to its 'greatness' were of a more qualitative nature.
How do you measure the quality?

[manker]

Yeah, you're mainly talking about economics there.

My contradictions to its 'greatness' were of a more qualitative nature.
How do you measure the quality?By using an esoteric discernment-ometer, of course.

[Cheese]

Do you really not know? That is a bit tragic. :( No. I know of no country with the word "great" in it.:1eye:


Your ignorance is tragic, though expected. Dismissed.

[Busyman]

How do you measure the quality?By using an esoteric discernment-ometer, of course.
Just what I thought.:happy:

I tend to use stuff like access to high paying jobs, crime rate, cost of living, distance from a beach, quality of teaching in the schools, etc.

[Busyman]

No. I know of no country with the word "great" in it.:1eye:


Your ignorance is tragic, though expected. Dismissed.
Noooooo....there's labia.

[manker]

By using an esoteric discernment-ometer, of course.
Just what I thought.:happy:

I tend to use stuff like access to high paying jobs, crime rate, cost of living, distance from a beach, quality of teaching in the schools, etc.In my line of work, I have to quantify the intangible. Pound notes are not what a balance sheet is all about.

The same can be said in this case. If you can't see it, you can't see it :idunno:

[Busyman]

Just what I thought.:happy:

I tend to use stuff like access to high paying jobs, crime rate, cost of living, distance from a beach, quality of teaching in the schools, etc.In my line of work, I have to quantify the intangible. Pound notes are not what a balance sheet is all about.

The same can be said in this case. If you can't see it, you can't see it :idunno:
True dat but I gotta start somewhere. If an area has fucked up schools I don't wanna go there. If I gotta live in a hovel, I don't wanna live there. Cost of living too high, don't wanna there. Availability of a decent paying jobs in relation to cost of living and how I want to live, don't wanna live there. No "comforts" nearby, don't wanna live there.

I don't have to see it.

[manker]

In my line of work, I have to quantify the intangible. Pound notes are not what a balance sheet is all about.

The same can be said in this case. If you can't see it, you can't see it :idunno:
True dat but I gotta start somewhere. If an area has fucked up schools I don't wanna go there. If I gotta live in a hovel, I don't wanna live there. Cost of living too high, don't wanna there. Availability of a decent paying jobs in relation to cost of living and how I want to live, don't wanna live there. No "comforts" nearby, don't wanna live there.

I don't have to see it.
Busy, we're not talking about where you want to live. I don't give two shits about what you can and can't afford.

We're talking about whether America is great or not. At least that's what I'm trying to talk about but you seem set on showing everyone where you're going on holidays and how much money you made while you were in school.

America's 'greatness' (or not) isn't dependent on whether you're going to Hawaii on honeymoon :blink:

[Busyman]

True dat but I gotta start somewhere. If an area has fucked up schools I don't wanna go there. If I gotta live in a hovel, I don't wanna live there. Cost of living too high, don't wanna there. Availability of a decent paying jobs in relation to cost of living and how I want to live, don't wanna live there. No "comforts" nearby, don't wanna live there.

I don't have to see it.
Busy, we're not talking about where you want to live. I don't give two shits about what you can and can't afford.

We're talking about whether America is great or not. At least that's what I'm trying to talk about but you seem set on showing everyone where you're going on holidays and how much money you made while you were in school.

America's 'greatness' (or not) isn't dependent on whether you're going to Hawaii on honeymoon :blink:
There you go getting personal...again. :ermm:

What makes a country great is many of the things I said. It's not about what I can or can't afford. I tend to think even foreigners think about how there kids will grow up, what type of schools, crime rate, etc.

I know it's hard for you not to be git but damn.:mellow:

[Biggles]

I think the US would be a nice place to stay if one is wealthy - less so if one were to be a tad short of a dollar or two.

I can't say the short holidays and long hours entice me much :) I am rather fond of my 6 weeks leave and 10 days public holidays.

On the other hand, on US TV no one seems to do much at their place of work ... of course that is TV world. :shifty:

[Busyman]

I think the US would be a nice place to stay if one is wealthy - less so if one were to be a tad short of a dollar or two.

I can't say the short holidays and long hours entice me much :) I am rather fond of my 6 weeks leave and 10 days public holidays.

On the other hand, on US TV no one seems to do much at their place of work ... of course that is TV world. :shifty:
Damn how many years do you have at your job? I think I have to have 25 years for 6 weeks vacation. :blink: I only have 4 now (but our sick leave is separate) and next year I get another.

France is nice with their vacation. I saw on 60 Minutes that they get something like 8 weeks or something crazy like that.:O Talk about livin' it up.

One of my instructors was Italian and he said that over there, there isn't this huge stress on punctuality like here. Very laid back.

On this side, 1 minute late means you are marked late. Too many and you are suspended. Too many after that...fired. That can go with being late coming from lunch. Of course some jobs over here are more laid back than others. One reason I'm glad to be outta the office.

[Biggles]

Over 20 years but the trigger for 6 weeks is 10 years (or something of that order).

The punctuality thing clinches it! I am not a morning person. As long as I average my 37 hours a week over a four week period (give or take 14 hours either way) everything is good. Ultimately it is the quality of the input that counts - not activity or attendance.

[Busyman]

Over 20 years but the trigger for 6 weeks is 10 years (or something of that order).

The punctuality thing clinches it! I am not a morning person. As long as I average my 37 hours a week over a four week period (give or take 14 hours either way) everything is good. Ultimately it is the quality of the input that counts - not activity or attendance.
Very good point. We do have some jobs that have "flex time" where you can arrive between certain hours but that's rare. 4 day workweeks are being experimented on.

You can be a sub-par worker and as long you arrive on time, you'll be ok. It's one downfall of unions over here although that's being rectified.

6 weeks is absolutely stunning for 10 years of work.:O Are your vacation and sick leave rolled into one?

edit: Some of our jobs require punctuality (like call centers) and some don't. They are treated the same, however.

[Biggles]

If I am sick I can self certify that I am ill for up to 7 days and 14 days in total in a year. If medically certified (doctor) then they will pay me for six months full pay and thereafter half pay for a further 6 months. Thankfully I have never had the misfortune to require that benefit.

That is probably quite good - even by European standards.

[Busyman]

If I am sick I can self certify that I am ill for up to 7 days and 14 days in total in a year. If medically certified (doctor) then they will pay me for six months full pay and thereafter half pay for a further 6 months. Thankfully I have never had the misfortune to require that benefit.

That is probably quite good - even by European standards.
Wow that is similar to where I work.

We can self-certify sick up to 4 days every 3 months (otherwise you get put on a Step which makes ineligible for a lonnnng time, it's complicated) which equals 12 days a year.

If medically certified I can be out up to 12 workweeks in a year without repurcssion (Clinton's FMLA Act). I don't know how long I get full pay except I'm still it getting now and I'm almost at 10 weeks. This is Sickness and Disability which runs alongside FMLA. Our pay drops down as time progresses also. I just don't know when.:idunno:

As far as vacation, we don't accumulate it like most jobs (government, hospital). We re-up once Jan. 1 hits and of course bring along any carryover day/weeks.

[vidcc]

Everything everybody says about America is true to one extent or another.

What I'm wondering is why anyone says it at all, given how most seem to feel.

Are you possibly confusing dislike of whatever party happens to be in power (republican policies are disliked now by the people that liked democratic polices, as democratic policies were disliked by people who liked republican policies) with love of ones country? Today politically we have a incredibly devisive climate and one side claims that the other hates America because they disagree with the present political party policies. "Don't agree with the way Bush handles Iraq...you must hate america".....:dry:

I personally think America is a great place. To say it's the greatest would be subjective. I have lived in a few countries and in all honesty I can say that it's swings and roundabouts. We are better than many places at some things (IMO) and far infereior at other (IMO). It's not unpatriotic to think that others have some better ways.

So I think it's fair to allow anyone from any country to state that their country is the greatest. For that individual it may well be. That said to constantly say it to everyone else is kind of obnoxious.

On a slight deviation people from the USA do make a very false statement quite often. That is to call our president, whoever it may be, the "leader of the free world"...... we can't really back that one up :unsure:


Does altruism exist to the same extent in America as it does in other countries?


Depends on the country. For a supposed "christian" country the USA does have a very selfish attitude domestically speaking.

[Busyman]

Are you possibly confusing dislike of whatever party happens to be in power (republican policies are disliked now by the people that liked democratic polices, as democratic policies were disliked by people who liked republican policies) with love of ones country? Today politically we have a incredibly devisive climate and one side claims that the other hates America because they disagree with the present political party policies. "Don't agree with the way Bush handles Iraq...you must hate america".....:dry:

I personally think America is a great place. To say it's the greatest would be subjective. I have lived in a few countries and in all honesty I can say that it's swings and roundabouts. We are better than many places at some things (IMO) and far infereior at other (IMO). It's not unpatriotic to think that others have some better ways.

So I think it's fair to allow anyone from any country to state that their country is the greatest. For that individual it may well be. That said to constantly say it to everyone else is kind of obnoxious.

On a slight deviation people from the USA do make a very false statement quite often. That is to call our president, whoever it may be, the "leader of the free world"...... we can't really back that one up :unsure:


Does altruism exist to the same extent in America as it does in other countries?


Depends on the country. For a supposed "christian" country the USA does have a very selfish attitude domestically speaking.
Good post.

You've lived in other countries...do you think America, as a whole, is the greatest country to live in? (of course, in your opinion)

[j2k4]

Are you possibly confusing dislike of whatever party happens to be in power (republican policies are disliked now by the people that liked democratic polices, as democratic policies were disliked by people who liked republican policies) with love of ones country? Today politically we have a incredibly devisive climate and one side claims that the other hates America because they disagree with the present political party policies. "Don't agree with the way Bush handles Iraq...you must hate america".....:dry:

I personally think America is a great place. To say it's the greatest would be subjective. I have lived in a few countries and in all honesty I can say that it's swings and roundabouts. We are better than many places at some things (IMO) and far infereior at other (IMO). It's not unpatriotic to think that others have some better ways.

So I think it's fair to allow anyone from any country to state that their country is the greatest. For that individual it may well be. That said to constantly say it to everyone else is kind of obnoxious.

On a slight deviation people from the USA do make a very false statement quite often. That is to call our president, whoever it may be, the "leader of the free world"...... we can't really back that one up :unsure:


Does altruism exist to the same extent in America as it does in other countries?


Depends on the country. For a supposed "christian" country the USA does have a very selfish attitude domestically speaking.

The U.S. is a representative republic with a capitalist economy.

As one who denounces any mixing of Christianity with government, and is not himself a believer, you have no credibility or entree to speak of christian "selfishness".

Given that-

Would you prefer to pay more taxes?

.53 of every dollar the government here collects goes to entitlements, .09 to debt service, and about .21 goes to defense.

The remaining .17 could be defined as discretionary, or subject to budgetary whim.

We work more than most other "civilized" countries already.

Apart from all that, I think you're attempting to make this thread into something I hadn't intended.

I do find mself wondering what shape opinions in here would take if/when a Democrat sits in the White House.

My point was to elicit specific observations about the U.S. as well as other countries for the sake of discussion.

It would be terribly presumptive to ask this be pinned, but I do see this as a potentially long-running thread, and one in which certain clarifications can be offered, fears allayed, or misapprehensions corrected.

The French say, Vive le difference! (I've never been sure why), but the sentiment never seems to be extended to the U.S.

Our culture (that which we may be granted to possess, anyway) is belittled as shallow and cheap, and it's influence around the world is loathed even by those who enjoy it.

I agree and regret that the only culture we've managed to export is of the sort meant to generate profit.

Many other dynamics interfere with genuine understanding, but I find it beneficial to kick those cans down the road with discussion, not out-of-hand rejection.

Perhaps this is too broad a subject for this board; I wouldn't want a thread of this type to crowd out other action or become merely a bitch session.

Maybe it won't work.

Time will tell, huh? :)

[maebach]

The US has basically no history or culture that it can call its own, so makes up for this with rampant commercialism.

I really don't see anything great about that.

I know, even canadia has more culture and history :)


:lookaroun

[Busyman]

Are you possibly confusing dislike of whatever party happens to be in power (republican policies are disliked now by the people that liked democratic polices, as democratic policies were disliked by people who liked republican policies) with love of ones country? Today politically we have a incredibly devisive climate and one side claims that the other hates America because they disagree with the present political party policies. "Don't agree with the way Bush handles Iraq...you must hate america".....:dry:

I personally think America is a great place. To say it's the greatest would be subjective. I have lived in a few countries and in all honesty I can say that it's swings and roundabouts. We are better than many places at some things (IMO) and far infereior at other (IMO). It's not unpatriotic to think that others have some better ways.

So I think it's fair to allow anyone from any country to state that their country is the greatest. For that individual it may well be. That said to constantly say it to everyone else is kind of obnoxious.

On a slight deviation people from the USA do make a very false statement quite often. That is to call our president, whoever it may be, the "leader of the free world"...... we can't really back that one up :unsure:


Depends on the country. For a supposed "christian" country the USA does have a very selfish attitude domestically speaking.

The U.S. is a representative republic with a capitalist economy.

As one who denounces any mixing of Christianity with government, and is not himself a believer, you have no credibility or entree to speak of christian "selfishness".

Given that-

Would you prefer to pay more taxes?

.53 of every dollar the government here collects goes to entitlements, .09 to debt service, and about .21 goes to defense.

The remaining .17 could be defined as discretionary, or subject to budgetary whim.

We work more than most other "civilized" countries already.

Apart from all that, I think you're attempting to make this thread into something I hadn't intended.

I do find mself wondering what shape opinions in here would take if/when a Democrat sits in the White House.

My point was to elicit specific observations about the U.S. as well as other countries for the sake of discussion.

It would be terribly presumptive to ask this be pinned, but I do see this as a potentially long-running thread, and one in which certain clarifications can be offered, fears allayed, or misapprehensions corrected.

The French say, Vive le difference! (I've never been sure why), but the sentiment never seems to be extended to the U.S.

Our culture (that which we may be granted to possess, anyway) is belittled as shallow and cheap, and it's influence around the world is loathed even by those who enjoy it.

I agree and regret that the only culture we've managed to export is of the sort meant to generate profit.

Many other dynamics interfere with genuine understanding, but I find it beneficial to kick those cans down the road with discussion, not out-of-hand rejection.

Perhaps this is too broad a subject for this board; I wouldn't want a thread of this type to crowd out other action or become merely a bitch session.

Maybe it won't work.

Time will tell, huh? :)
Another good post. Yeah I hope this thread doesn't turn into a Dem/Repub thread as well.

[j2k4]

Another good post. Yeah I hope this thread doesn't turn into a Dem/Repub thread as well.

Thanks, and I sincerely don't want this to be a "political" thread.

Politicians are the same wherever you go, and I'd prefer to leave them out of this.

I don't recall anyone hereabout dumb enough to tout their country as possessing "the greatest politicians the world has ever known".

That Galloway character is entertaining as all get-out, but I don't recall anyone willing to claim him, apart from The, of course.

[manker]

I'd wonder why the French say 'Vive le Difference!' too, unless they weren't very good with words. Traditionally it's 'Vive la Difference' and refers to how much men and women differ.

At least that's my understanding.

I don't think it has any relevance in this thread.


Btw, who, exactly, is going to allay fears and correct misapprehensions about the US.

Busyman?

[j2k4]

I'd wonder why the French say 'Vive le Difference!' too, unless they weren't very good with words. Traditionally it's 'Vive la Difference' and refers to how much men and women differ.

I beg your forebearance; it must be my latent aversion to Gaullist stuff.

At least that's my understanding.

I don't think it has any relevance in this thread.

Could be.

Or not.


Btw, who, exactly, is going to allay fears and correct misapprehensions about the US.

Busyman?

He might, if he thought you were actually listening.

Perhaps not.

Tell us what you like about Wales, and how it is superior because it produced Tom Jones.

I'd like to know how you abide that Prince World Cup...whatzizname...Charles? :huh:

[vidcc]

The U.S. is a representative republic with a capitalist economy.

As one who denounces any mixing of Christianity with government, and is not himself a believer, you have no credibility or entree to speak of christian "selfishness".
you asked a question and I responded..It was an opinion based on observation, you cannot dismiss it because I am not a christian

I became an atheist, I was once a christian. Don't flatter youself, I don't reject "any mixing of Christianity with government" I denounce mixing religion with government. Even then I don't denounce religious people in government, I denounce religious people in government that think their religious beliefs should trump the constitution. Your attack line is tiresome. Would you say that someone that converted to christianity from atheism had no insight into atheism? would you deny that christ taught to love his fellow man? Was jesus a capitalist that would think it evil for society to put the well being of people over wealth of individuals?


this is a response and not an attempt to steer away from the subject

Given that-

Would you prefer to pay more taxes?
Of course not, I would prefer the taxes we pay where spent wisely in worthwhile areas and we got value for money
.53 of every dollar the government here collects goes to entitlements, .09 to debt service, and about .21 goes to defense.

The remaining .17 could be defined as discretionary, or subject to budgetary whim.
and ?:huh: ...so what?
We work more than most other "civilized" countries already.

That is a subjective opinion, not proven fact

Apart from all that, I think you're attempting to make this thread into something I hadn't intended.

I do find mself wondering what shape opinions in here would take if/when a Democrat sits in the White House.
I'm not trying to shape anything, merely wondering if you are mistaking complaints about the way the country is heading politically and possibly culturally with hating the usa, if you yourself are happy with everything why do you complain about things. Some have more to object to than others. No doubt the tables will turn again so to speak.

Our culture (that which we may be granted to possess, anyway) is belittled as shallow and cheap, and it's influence around the world is loathed even by those who enjoy it.

I think that (generally speaking) this is a universal issue. Many americans reject the culture of others just as others reject ours. We have an attitude of "if you come here you must accept our way of life and not expect us to accept yours, if you don't like it f. off somewhere else"

I agree and regret that the only culture we've managed to export is of the sort meant to generate profit.

..

[Busyman]

I'd wonder why the French say 'Vive le Difference!' too, unless they weren't very good with words. Traditionally it's 'Vive la Difference' and refers to how much men and women differ.

At least that's my understanding.

I don't think it has any relevance in this thread.


Btw, who, exactly, is going to allay fears and correct misapprehensions about the US.

Busyman?
Nah. I would think it pretty pathetic that some foreigner would generalize the populace of the third largest country in world as being the same...oh wait.

[thewizeard]

The native Americans, Grand Canyon, Yellowstone Park, the great lakes..


..Hollywood, McDonalds, KFC mmmm.. and then you have CIA, DRM, RIAA :(


erm... well yes, I love the USA ..it's the inhabitants, that's the problem... but for the rest ;)

English..living in the Netherlands

[manker]

I'd wonder why the French say 'Vive le Difference!' too, unless they weren't very good with words. Traditionally it's 'Vive la Difference' and refers to how much men and women differ.

At least that's my understanding.

I don't think it has any relevance in this thread.


Btw, who, exactly, is going to allay fears and correct misapprehensions about the US.

Busyman?
Nah. I would think it pretty pathetic that some foreigner would generalize the populace of the third largest country in world as being the same...oh wait.Indeed, it would be pretty pathetic.

Which is why I questioned the validity of you giving details of your lifestyle in a thread about America in general.

'Is America great?'

'Well, Busyman is going on a cruise'.

:huh:

[manker]

I'd wonder why the French say 'Vive le Difference!' too, unless they weren't very good with words. Traditionally it's 'Vive la Difference' and refers to how much men and women differ.

I beg your forebearance; it must be my latent aversion to Gaullist stuff.

At least that's my understanding.

I don't think it has any relevance in this thread.

Could be.

Or not.


Btw, who, exactly, is going to allay fears and correct misapprehensions about the US.

Busyman?

He might, if he thought you were actually listening.

Perhaps not.

Tell us what you like about Wales, and how it is superior because it produced Tom Jones.

I'd like to know how you abide that Prince World Cup...whatzizname...Charles? :huh:The World Cup doesn't actually have any handles, but I admire your persistence :P

Maybe you meant a different World Cup, who knows.

Anyway. I suppose my disdain for this thread is showing. The reason being is because you, the thread starter, show a complete and utter contempt for all things French. I remember I called you a Francophobe a while back. That particular nation is a favourite of mine, I absolutely adore the culture and the people, I go there as often as I can.

I think it's a bit rich for you to make a thread to correct our collective misunderstandings and preconceptions about the US while you hold prejudices about France and seem quite content in your position that France, basically, sucks.

Incidentally, I don't harbour any malice toward the US as a nation, I think my first post in the thread shows that.

It has its good points and its bad points. Much like anywhere else :)

[Skweeky1]

My boyfriend used to be in the RAF, left after 9 years of service and then worked for IBM.
He was in the States both as a member of the military and a member of the public and he doesn't seem to be too enthusiastic about either of them.
He likes Jamaice though.


( He would have typed this himself but he doesn't trust the interweb and also thinks it's for geeks:lol: )

[j2k4]

The World Cup doesn't actually have any handles, but I admire your persistence :P

You mean those things on either side of Charles' head aren't handles?

Anyway. I suppose my disdain for this thread is showing. The reason being is because you, the thread starter, show a complete and utter contempt for all things French. I remember I called you a Francophobe a while back. That particular nation is a favourite of mine, I absolutely adore the culture and the people, I go there as often as I can.

I think it's a bit rich for you to make a thread to correct our collective misunderstandings and preconceptions about the US while you hold prejudices about France and seem quite content in your position that France, basically, sucks.

G.K. Chesterton once said something to the effect of "Real Americans are fine; it's the IDEAL American causing the problems."

I rather think the same of France.

In any case, you overstate. :P

Incidentally, I don't harbour any malice toward the US as a nation, I think my first post in the thread shows that.

It has its good points and its bad points. Much like anywhere else :)[/QUOTE]

Yes.

Let's hear about Wales.

Perhaps we might persuade Guillaume to offer up on France, too.

[manker]

The World Cup doesn't actually have any handles, but I admire your persistence :P

You mean those things on either side of Charles' head aren't handles?

Anyway. I suppose my disdain for this thread is showing. The reason being is because you, the thread starter, show a complete and utter contempt for all things French. I remember I called you a Francophobe a while back. That particular nation is a favourite of mine, I absolutely adore the culture and the people, I go there as often as I can.

I think it's a bit rich for you to make a thread to correct our collective misunderstandings and preconceptions about the US while you hold prejudices about France and seem quite content in your position that France, basically, sucks.

G.K. Chesterton once said something to the effect of "Real Americans are fine; it's the IDEAL American causing the problems."

I rather think the same of France.

In any case, you overstate. :P

Incidentally, I don't harbour any malice toward the US as a nation, I think my first post in the thread shows that.

It has its good points and its bad points. Much like anywhere else :)

Yes.

Let's hear about Wales.

Perhaps we might persuade Guillaume to offer up on France, too.Rather than overstating, I thought I was quite frugal with my words, actually.


If I was to talk about the reality of living in Wales, I don't think the forum could stand it. For a start the revelation that I've never shagged a sheep would render lynx and Rat Faced completely retortless when conversing with me.

I'm not that cruel, bless 'em :)

I'm already happy with the way people on this forum view Wales and to 'big it up' isn't my style.

I could be wrong but I don't think it's Gurahl's, either.

[Skweeky1]

Are you that psychic guy from Britain's psychic challenge?
If not, do you know him?

[Busyman]

Nah. I would think it pretty pathetic that some foreigner would generalize the populace of the third largest country in world as being the same...oh wait.Indeed, it would be pretty pathetic.

Which is why I questioned the validity of you giving details of your lifestyle in a thread about America in general.

'Is America great?'

'Well, Busyman is going on a cruise'.

:huh:
Oh fuck, Batman. He focused on a 2-liner out of entire paragraph.:lol: :lol:

Oh I just happen to be an American and there are many others just like me. Middle-class black American and just part of demographic that grew up poor.
I believe my lifestyle and how it changed for the better, makes living in America great. I don't believe my circumstances would have been much better elsewhere.

[manker]

Are you that psychic guy from Britain's psychic challenge?
If not, do you know him?I knew you were going to say that :dabs:

[manker]

Indeed, it would be pretty pathetic.

Which is why I questioned the validity of you giving details of your lifestyle in a thread about America in general.

'Is America great?'

'Well, Busyman is going on a cruise'.

:huh:
Oh fuck, Batman. He focused on a 2-liner out of entire paragraph.:lol: :lol:

Oh I just happen to be an American and there are many others just like me. Middle-class black American and just part of demographic that grew up poor.
I believe my lifestyle and how it changed for the better, makes living in America great. I don't believe my circumstances would have been much better elsewhere.You say about me focusing on a tiny part of your post and expecting it to reflect the whole is wrong, yet you focus on a tiny demographic to show how America is great. I expect that the black folk in Zimbabwe who procured the farmland have a better lifestyle now c.f. what they had before - but is that indicative of life in Zimbabwe.

No.

Next!

[Busyman]

Oh fuck, Batman. He focused on a 2-liner out of entire paragraph.:lol: :lol:

Oh I just happen to be an American and there are many others just like me. Middle-class black American and just part of demographic that grew up poor.
I believe my lifestyle and how it changed for the better, makes living in America great. I don't believe my circumstances would have been much better elsewhere.You say about me focusing on a tiny part of your post and expecting it to reflect the whole is wrong, yet you focus on a tiny demographic to show how America is great. I expect that the black folk in Zimbabwe who procured the farmland have a better lifestyle now c.f. what they had before - but is that indicative of life in Zimbabwe.

No.

Next!
Hmmm.......I don't know if the ability for black folk procure farmland in Zimbabwe is easy or not. Do people that apply themselves have an easier time bettering their lifestyle over there. I can't say.
I might give the average Zimbabwean a better chance over here than there but I am ignorant as to the makeup their country.

Oh and people that start from shit and make better for themselves are not a tiny demographic over here.

I'd rather be here than anywhere else even based on the numbers game.

If I was rich and could live anywhere I wanted in the world I might have a different outlook. As a blue collar worker trying to be rich, this be...the place to be. The amount of oppurtunities is a motherfucka from my perspective.

Next indeed.:happy:

[manker]

You've gone from 'I'm doing better' to 'Middle class black Americans are doing better' to 'People who start from shit and try to do better'.

That's really what I wanted you to do - broaden the perspective that you were presenting, from the ridiculously narrow "I" to include millions of people.

You do see what I did there, I take it.

Thanks for conforming.


I agree too, since it was part of my initial point. Economically, America can be considered great.

[Busyman]

You've gone from 'I'm doing better' to 'Middle class black Americans are doing better' to 'People who start from shit and try to do better'.

That's really what I wanted you to do - broaden the perspective that you were presenting, from the ridiculously narrow "I" to include millions of people.

You do see what I did there, I take it.

Thanks for conforming.


I agree too, since it was part of my initial point. Economically, America can be considered great.
Well if the new posts helped you understand, great. This is one of those "imo" or "from my pov" instances where it shouldn't have to be said. America might be the most diverse country in world so I thought certain things were CaptainObvious. Either way, it's good that you get it now.

edit:Oh shit, I did say it.


As far as who may want to make their own way in a country, I don't hear much "I want to make it in Australia, Canada, or France" but that's only from my POV in America.

[manker]

Well if the new posts helped you understand, great. This is one of those "imo" or "from my pov" instances where it shouldn't have to be said. America might be the most diverse country in world so I thought certain things were CaptainObvious. Either way, it's good that you get it now.

edit:Oh shit, I did say it.


As far as who may want to make their own way in a country, I don't hear much "I want to make it in Australia, Canada, or France" but that's only from my POV in America.
See, that's just it. It's not obvious. Neither is it correct.

The thread is about if America is great or not.

Your previous statements don't work, only last one does. I'll try an analogy to see if it helps :huh:

John Major came from a circus background to be the Prime Minister of the UK.

Does that make the UK great? Nope. It's just an isolated incident.

John Major and other people of a circus background made some money.

Does that make the UK great? Nope. It's a tiny demographic.

Lower class people in the UK are given opportunities to make something of themselves - and millions of them do.

Does that make the UK great? Yeah!

Your success <sic> is not what makes America economically great, yours and other middle class black Americans' success does not make America economically great. Tens of millions of people having the opportunity, and taking the opportunity, to make a lot of money, does

Given that this facet is only a small part of a country's economic success, which is in turn only a component of whether America is great or not - you should be able to see how insignificant your own improved lifestyle is in this topic.

Which is my point.

[Busyman]

Well if the new posts helped you understand, great. This is one of those "imo" or "from my pov" instances where it shouldn't have to be said. America might be the most diverse country in world so I thought certain things were CaptainObvious. Either way, it's good that you get it now.

edit:Oh shit, I did say it.

See, that's just it. It's not obvious. Neither is it correct.

The thread is about if America is great or not.

Your previous statements don't work, only last one does. I'll try an analogy to see if it helps :huh:

John Major came from a circus background to be the Prime Minister of the UK.

Does that make the UK great? Nope. It's just an isolated incident.

John Major and other people of a circus background made some money.

Does that make the UK great? Nope. It's a tiny demographic.

Lower class people in the UK are given opportunities to make something of themselves - and millions of them do.

Does that make the UK great? Yeah!

Your success <sic> is not what makes America economically great, yours and other middle class black Americans' success does not make America economically great. Tens of millions of people having the opportunity, and taking the opportunity, to make a lot of money, does

Given that this facet is only a small part of a country's economic success, which is in turn only a component of whether America is great or not - you should be able to see how insignificant your own improved lifestyle is in this topic.

Which is my point.
It's makes it great for me and other's like me. It's what many immigrants have to say when coming over here.

It's the ability of anyone applying themselves to move up. Sure that be made a blanket statement for Russia but I reckon it's harder.

Not a tiny demographic over here.

A tiny demographic is hitting the jackpot in Powerball or Mega Millions.

You say the rampnat commercialism of America is a fault. How so?

America is made up of different cultures now under one banner. You say that's a fault. I call it a strength. Black American culture doesn't really come from Africa really. Many black Americans don't even identify with Africa so where did our culture come from? Culture doesn't have to be 300 years old to be considered culture.

Culture is in our friends and families and it intermingles with others on a daily basis. Our capitalism is part of our culture and it can have it's evils just like anywhere else in the world :ferengi:. Part of our history was about getting from under Britain's thumb and getting established then almost breaking up. All very significant.

Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and all o dat.

[peat moss]

I can see that but thier health plan needs work . I live in Canada but Britian or the Usa , would be a toss up for my second choice .

How we treat our pensioners should be a good guide .

[Rat Faced]

Over 20 years but the trigger for 6 weeks is 10 years (or something of that order).

The punctuality thing clinches it! I am not a morning person. As long as I average my 37 hours a week over a four week period (give or take 14 hours either way) everything is good. Ultimately it is the quality of the input that counts - not activity or attendance.

Beat you, we get 6 weeks from day 1..

Plus the full flexi with carry forward + or - 37 hours in any 4 week period..

Knew the Agency would lead the pack somewhere... eventually :unsure:

[Busyman™]

Over 20 years but the trigger for 6 weeks is 10 years (or something of that order).

The punctuality thing clinches it! I am not a morning person. As long as I average my 37 hours a week over a four week period (give or take 14 hours either way) everything is good. Ultimately it is the quality of the input that counts - not activity or attendance.

Beat you, we get 6 weeks from day 1..

Plus the full flexi with carry forward + or - 37 hours in any 4 week period..

Knew the Agency would lead the pack somewhere... eventually :unsure:
Quite noice!:D
France has us all beat, however.:(

[Rat Faced]

Indeed, it would be pretty pathetic.

Which is why I questioned the validity of you giving details of your lifestyle in a thread about America in general.

'Is America great?'

'Well, Busyman is going on a cruise'.

:huh:
Oh fuck, Batman. He focused on a 2-liner out of entire paragraph.:lol: :lol:

Oh I just happen to be an American and there are many others just like me. Middle-class black American and just part of demographic that grew up poor.
I believe my lifestyle and how it changed for the better, makes living in America great. I don't believe my circumstances would have been much better elsewhere.

I saw a piece on Channel 4 news last year that quoted that movement between "social class" in the US was one of the worst records in the west in recent years.. (The UK wasnt much better).

I have, however, no idea where the figures come from and that should therefore be taken as hearsay.. the fact is it is possible to make money legally in the US and it isnt in many places in the world.

[vidcc]

I saw a piece on Channel 4 news last year that quoted that movement between "social class" in the US was one of the worst records in the west in recent years..

Well we have bad, high fat, low fibre diets and small bore domestic waste pipes so we try to keep all movements to a minimum :pinch: