Legal Music

[clocker]

Okay pirates, here's a question...

I read in my paper today (The Denver Post) that Apple has come to an agreement with several music companies to offer music online for legal download at about $.99/ song. About $.60 of this would go to the music company and the artist (presumably). Although the first iteration will be for Mac users only, they plan on rolling out a Windows- based version shortly (duh!).

Since many posts in this section of the forum proclaim the sentiment "CDs cost too much! If they'd lower the price I'd buy it!", the question is...

How many of you are willing to pay $.99 for a legal copy of a song that you can get for free right here?

Step right up...

[summerlinda]

Not me, if i pay, i want an original with booklet, art etc.
If they lower the prices [at least to half] i would be buying more cd's, i really would. [More, not all]

[Jibbler]

I might pay, but honestly, I think the prices are still a bit high. Apple in in talks with Universal Records, and might even purchase that company outright. The model looks good, but no one has really discussed the quality of the files, nor did they discuss the price of additional copies. When I burn disks, its one for the car, one for the player at work, and sometimes one for home, though I use my PC for that in most cases.

[MagicNakor]

I won't pay $1 for a song. It'd add up far too quickly. If CDs were cheaper, I'd buy them. I won't buy songs to burn to a crappy disc I got from Staples, which I also have to pay for.

A good 95% of my music wouldn&#39;t be "sold" this way anyway. <_< Which makes getting CDs very difficult to get, since they aren&#39;t sold, either.

:ninja:

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by MagicNakor@28 April 2003 - 20:41
I won&#39;t pay &#036;1 for a song. It&#39;d add up far too quickly. If CDs were cheaper, I&#39;d buy them.
Interesting thoughts, though I don&#39;t understand your logic. In the past, you had to buy a full CD, now you can have just the songs you want. Thus the full CD is cheaper, because you only get the songs you want. I&#39;ll keep ripping and sharing until they provide me with a realistic model for music downloads. This is definitely a step in the right direction for the industry.

[clocker]

Originally posted by MagicNakor@28 April 2003 - 18:41
I won&#39;t pay &#036;1 for a song. It&#39;d add up far too quickly. If CDs were cheaper, I&#39;d buy them. I won&#39;t buy songs to burn to a crappy disc I got from Staples, which I also have to pay for.

How cheap does a CD have to be before you&#39;d buy it?

[summerlinda]

Maybe its a step in the right direction, but im not gonna be part of it, its to much money, i dont like internet payments, and i just want the original when i pay for something.......

I am willing to pay €5 [euro] for a cd, call me stingy, i dont care, 5 euro is a reasonable price considering much more people will buy the original.

[summerlinda]

Originally posted by clocker@29 April 2003 - 01:05
Okay pirates, here&#39;s a question...
.......................
Step right up...
And how about you Clocker?

[MagicNakor]

&#036;1 for each song (and I imagine it&#39;s US dollars) would mean &#036;1.45 for me (today, at least <_< ). Just as an example, Weights and Measures has 12 songs on it. I&#39;m at &#036;17.40 right now. To buy a single CD-R will cost me &#036;2.94. So far, &#036;20.34. I won&#39;t factor gas into actually driving 45 minutes to the store to pick up the CD-Rs, though.

In theory, if Apple had all the songs from Weights and Measures available for download, it&#39;d cost me &#036;20.34 to get a burnt CD of it.

I bought Weights and Measures for &#036;16.72.

:ninja:

[MagicNakor]

Originally posted by clocker+29 April 2003 - 01:54--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 29 April 2003 - 01:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MagicNakor@28 April 2003 - 18:41
I won&#39;t pay &#036;1 for a song. It&#39;d add up far too quickly. If CDs were cheaper, I&#39;d buy them. I won&#39;t buy songs to burn to a crappy disc I got from Staples, which I also have to pay for.

How cheap does a CD have to be before you&#39;d buy it? [/b][/quote]
I&#39;m not able to buy many CDs. They simply aren&#39;t sold with the music I listen to. If they are sold, it&#39;s either through the artists themselves, or some wierd little shop on the corner. ;) Amazon lists most of them at around &#036;25 - &#036;32.

I won&#39;t pay &#036;23 for one song.

I&#39;d consider paying &#036;5 for a CD. &#036;10 if the whole album is super-good.


I&#39;ve noticed you haven&#39;t answered your own question, oddly enough.

:ninja:

[clocker]

Originally posted by summerlinda+28 April 2003 - 19:01--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (summerlinda @ 28 April 2003 - 19:01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--clocker@29 April 2003 - 01:05
Okay pirates, here&#39;s a question...
.......................
Step right up...
And how about you Clocker? [/b][/quote]
I&#39;ll continue to rip for free, of course.

But I&#39;ve never tried to disguise my piracy as anything else, either. Certainly not as a valid consumer response to "overpriced" music (or movies).

Magic, where are you getting your blank CDs? I just got 100 for &#036;9.99 (US).

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by MagicNakor@28 April 2003 - 21:06
I&#39;d consider paying &#036;5 for a CD. &#036;10 if the whole album is super-good.


C&#39;mon man, get real. You can&#39;t even get cassettes for &#036;5. :huh: Still stuck in the 80s eh? ;)

[Skillian]

Magic I think thats a fair price for a downloaded album.
&#036;1 a song is pretty much equal to or more what you pay in the store, but they have hardly any the overheads of a retail outlet, and have none of the physical costs of the CD as well as artwork etc. They really should be a fair bit cheaper than that.

But from what I&#39;ve read, this seems to be the best attempt so far in this direction and I actually wish them success.

[MagicNakor]

Well, I wish I could get 100 cds for &#036;10. But 100 cds cost &#036;85+ with tax here. :/

Staples, which is the only place in this town to get that kind of thing. There&#39;s privately owned computer shops, but they charge &#036;5/blank.

Honestly, most CDs aren&#39;t worth the material they&#39;re printed on. So really, it&#39;s a fair price. When they start to put more than one half-decent song on a 12-15 song disc, I&#39;ll consider it.

&#036;1 a song (&#036;1.45 for me) ends up costing a fair bit more than a CD. ;) I can get albums cheaper than what it would cost me to download it.

Obviously, people like clocker who get 100 cds for &#036;10, or other people who don&#39;t have to drive 45 minutes to pick up a blank cd, or people in places that have more than one place to get blank CDs are going to find it cheaper. I won&#39;t.

But I&#39;m an anomaly anyway.

:ninja:

[jetje]

Originally posted by Jibbler+29 April 2003 - 02:47--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jibbler @ 29 April 2003 - 02:47)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MagicNakor@28 April 2003 - 20:41
I won&#39;t pay &#036;1 for a song. It&#39;d add up far too quickly. If CDs were cheaper, I&#39;d buy them.
Interesting thoughts, though I don&#39;t understand your logic. In the past, you had to buy a full CD, now you can have just the songs you want. Thus the full CD is cheaper, because you only get the songs you want. I&#39;ll keep ripping and sharing until they provide me with a realistic model for music downloads. This is definitely a step in the right direction for the industry. [/b][/quote]
I like the full cd&#39;s, a lot of bands have a kinda concept in their album. So if you take out one song it&#39;s not much but together it&#39;s a great album.
&#036; 0,99 is way to much.it would mean about &#036;15,- for a full album.... as someone stated; for that amount i would like to have the booklets etc...(you can buy the original).

Still buying a lot of cd&#39;s and Music/movie dvd&#39;s for real.. But think prizes are outrageous (between €15 to €35 for a new cd/dvd).

topic moved to musicworld...

[geothermal78]

>>>Apple has come to an agreement with several music companies to offer music online for legal download at about &#036;.99/ song.>>>

Is there a receipt if you buy them ? I mean, it your hard drive dies on you with all your songs you purchased, would there be a way you could redownload them to your new system ?

I still think 99 cents is too much for a song. I buy a lot of trance and techno cds and they often have 16-18 songs on each cd. So that makes it more expensive than waiting for a cd store sale. I also got a stack of 100 cdrs at the Fred Meyer store here in Seattle for 20 bucks a year ago. I have only burned about 25 cdrs so far. Half of them were for backing up my 3 computers. That said, the music industry should fit more songs on each cd as they will fit for sure. or they could add lyrics and photos and even videos on the cd like Sarah MacLaughlin did with her cd. Also Cirque de Soleil did one also. MP3 .com also did the DAM cds with like two photos and a pc player on each cd as well. The music industry really dropped the ball in doing anything hi -tech. I mean they could have sold cdrs with 100 mp3s on them or wma cdrs too. Or even oog which is a free file format. People could have been ordering them on the web and delivered to their doors. But noooooo the music industry sat on their hands while Sony realized the money to be made and sold cd burners &#33; Music corporations used to be making so much money off of me when my cassettes would warp and break and I would have to buy the same damn cassette over again. I have 100s of cassettes and 100s of albums, most bought at full price because I loved the artists. But now it seems that most of the money did not go to the artist. Anyway, now I go to the stores and there is no trance or techno section. There is sometimes a dance section but there is usually on one or two trance or techno cds in there. I check there sometimes because you never know when the store might hire someone who actually knows music. All they know is top 40. Occasionally at xmas I&#39;ll do a phone order at an independent cd store across town, because they have a wider variety. The last nail on the coffin was when I was accosted by this mainstream cd store chain guy and he talked me into joining a cd club and I got 10% coupons off cds in the mail from time to time and a magazine to boot. it was fine until I drove down to the closest mall to me and the store was gone &#33; Apparently two cd stores in that mall were too much, so they took one out. The other cd store did not have a cd club to join.

Anyway, until they get their act together and maybe hire some people with computer experience ??? I&#39;ll P2P, and call RIAA a red herring. *smile

ciao,

geothermal78

[Livy]

Originally posted by clocker@29 April 2003 - 01:05
Okay pirates, here&#39;s a question...

I read in my paper today (The Denver Post) that Apple has come to an agreement with several music companies to offer music online for legal download at about &#036;.99/ song. About &#036;.60 of this would go to the music company and the artist (presumably). Although the first iteration will be for Mac users only, they plan on rolling out a Windows- based version shortly (duh&#33;).

Since many posts in this section of the forum proclaim the sentiment "CDs cost too much&#33; If they&#39;d lower the price I&#39;d buy it&#33;", the question is...

How many of you are willing to pay &#036;.99 for a legal copy of a song that you can get for free right here?

Step right up...
im sure my isp is doing this for £1. blueyonder uk.

[Kid1A]

Their A Simple Solution To all Of this, You Buy The Cd&#39;s Of The artists you like, and you rip the other stuff you find listable or ok. Whats the point of paying £10-14 for an album you&#39;ll listen to for a couple of week&#39;s till you tire of it or it simple isnt &#39;cool&#39; no more. This way you support the artists and music you like and not the Fads and trendy stuff at the time, its about time the industry realised that one song aint gonna make you rich, their like children spitting their dummy cause the moneys dried up (eg MADDONA). Also Kazza and other programs offers stuff unavailable on the hight street such as live shows and unreleased tracks, which actualy help the artist concerned and their credibility. People often complain about the cons of piracy when their are also many pro&#39;s in favour of the artist, were not all MASS pirates.

[summerlinda]

There is already a way to download legaly, its called WebListen (http://www.weblisten.com/), its Spanish. They sell legal mp3 & wma since 1998. I dont know their collection but from what i hear its pretty good [Not for you Magic Nakor :P ]

You buy the &#39;right&#39; to download for a certain period of time, [1 night, 1 weekend, 1, 2, 3 or 6 monthts] read all about at above url... You are never obligated to prolong your account.

1 night costs 3 dollar
1 weekend cost 12 dollar etc etc.......

I never tried it, but have been reading about it a lot. Any one ever tried this?

A link for the Dutch: WebListen (http://www.museekster.com/weblisten.htm)

[Benno]

I wouldnt pay it, if I pay for a cd I want at least the cover, case and the original cd.

But that doesnt mean that I dont pay for music at all, I often buy CDs in stores. B)

[Jibbler]

Yeah, I think &#036;1 per song is ok, but you should be able to get full CD for less, maybe &#036;10. They need to work on the model a bit, but I still say it can work. I&#39;m sure there will be another round of piracy before any of this starts changing the industry. :huh:

[harrycary]

It&#39;s all crap crap crap&#33;
While the Apple solution is admirable it&#39;s a day late and a dollar short..
Due to the wide use of file sharing networks it&#39;s impossible to go back. This is more than true for the younger demographic(ages 18-35).
We "traders" (4 million+ strong&#33;) have become too accustom to the mp3 format and the hardware it is compatible with.

Now, Apple is giving us another audio format&#33; The ACC format has DRM built-in. There is a heavy discussion on this topic at the Slashdot (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/29/1154204&mode=thread) site. Interesting reading for power users.

With this new format, you can put your downloaded [and use]songs on up to 3 computers and those computers must be registered with Apple(sounds alot like a Micro&#036;soft scheme). You must unregister a computer before registering any new computer you buy. You can burn that music to as many CDs as you want though the ACC format isn&#39;t compatible with any portables except the iPod.

WTF? So you have to burn the ACC files to a CD and then rip the CD to the mp3 format. What a waste of my time&#33;

Frankly, the content being offered by the large labels just plain sucks. Probably 1 of the last 20 CDs I&#39;ve bought had more than 2 or 3 songs I liked.

And finally, on a personal note, I miss the good old days where you got a full size album that gave you the pleasure of full size art and liner-notes to enjoy and read while listening.

Phew&#33; That&#39;s my &#036;.02 worth&#33;

[RealitY]

Originally posted by Jibbler+29 April 2003 - 01:47--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jibbler @ 29 April 2003 - 01:47)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MagicNakor@28 April 2003 - 20:41
I won&#39;t pay &#036;1 for a song. It&#39;d add up far too quickly. If CDs were cheaper, I&#39;d buy them.
Interesting thoughts, though I don&#39;t understand your logic. In the past, you had to buy a full CD, now you can have just the songs you want. Thus the full CD is cheaper, because you only get the songs you want. [/b][/quote]
Your Twisted (hehe).

[RealitY]

I heard there was a site charging .99 a while back and they dropped their fee to .49 and still were going nowhere fast, as FREE is still cheaper. Again, free sells, and if you can sell free you get rich.

No one here is buyin&#39; jack s**t at any price, your all broke down "file sharing guys" (myself included).

By the way I forgot what the inside of a record store lOOks like, or a blockbuter for that matter.
S**t I&#39;m gettin&#39; tears thinkin&#39; &#39;bout my youth.

[clocker]

Time for me to jump in again...

The general consensus seems to be that &#036;.99 is still too much for a song. The format is clunky and in general this service will not appeal to the users of the FastTrack network.

Which is pretty much what I expected when I first posted the topic.
I&#39;m wondering whether this whole project is designed to fail. Big rollout, unprecedented industry cooperation ( why, even REM is going to participate goody,goody&#33;), lots of media coverage and YAWN, the whole thing flops in six months.
Then the RIAA can go to Congress and say "Well, we tried, we gave &#39;em a chance to play legally and still they insist on stealing our product. We need help and these are the laws we&#39;d like to see passed * kiss your privacy and fair use protections goodbye here*".

Am I being overly paranoid or what?

[Benno]

I will never pay to download songs. I do however still buy CDs, but if I decide to spend money on the CD, I want at least the case & artwork.
I won&#39;t pay just that I&#39;m allowed to download it and burn it afterward myself on a shitty looking CDR.

[MOTOMATT]

It would be great to dl good quality mp3&#39;s no fakes ,no pops, no half songs :rolleyes:

[RealitY]

Originally posted by clocker@30 April 2003 - 12:37
I&#39;m wondering whether this whole project is designed to fail. Big rollout, unprecedented industry cooperation ( why, even REM is going to participate goody,goody&#33;), lots of media coverage and YAWN, the whole thing flops in six months.
Then the RIAA can go to Congress and say "Well, we tried, we gave &#39;em a chance to play legally and still they insist on stealing our product. We need help and these are the laws we&#39;d like to see passed * kiss your privacy and fair use protections goodbye here*".

Am I being overly paranoid or what?
On the "Money" Sir, I see it coming already&#33;&#33;

F**K us all.

[Twist3r]

I will never pay for music they cant make me&#33;&#33;&#33;

[chloe_cc2002]

agree with jetje.

Furthermore it is disingenous of Steve Job to proclaim that is 99c, thats "doggone pretty close to free" or something to that effect. What as percentage of &#036;1.00 is 99%???

I am no maths graduate but......


http://www.imahosting.com/sigs/picture4.jpg


Is it true that kazaa is renowned for trading smut more than music??????

[harrycary]

The Apple site doesn&#39;t offer music in the mp3 format.

See my previous post above.

[ToddM]

It&#39;s all crap crap crap&#33;
While the Apple solution is admirable it&#39;s a day late and a dollar short..
Due to the wide use of file sharing networks it&#39;s impossible to go back. This is more than true for the younger demographic(ages 18-35).
We "traders" (4 million+ strong&#33;) have become too accustom to the mp3 format and the hardware it is compatible with.

Now, Apple is giving us another audio format&#33; The ACC format has DRM built-in. There is a heavy discussion on this topic at the Slashdot site. Interesting reading for power users.

With this new format, you can put your downloaded [and use]songs on up to 3 computers and those computers must be registered with Apple(sounds alot like a Micro&#036;soft scheme). You must unregister a computer before registering any new computer you buy. You can burn that music to as many CDs as you want though the ACC format isn&#39;t compatible with any portables except the iPod.

WTF? So you have to burn the ACC files to a CD and then rip the CD to the mp3 format. What a waste of my time&#33;

Frankly, the content being offered by the large labels just plain sucks. Probably 1 of the last 20 CDs I&#39;ve bought had more than 2 or 3 songs I liked.

And finally, on a personal note, I miss the good old days where you got a full size album that gave you the pleasure of full size art and liner-notes to enjoy and read while listening.

Phew&#33; That&#39;s my &#036;.02 worth&#33;

Well said, harrycary. I couldn&#39;t agree more&#33; The recording industry would start making back the money they claim to have &#39;lost&#39; over the past years if they would get on the ball and come up with something which would appeal to those of us &#39;music lovers/collectors&#39;. I mean, maybe put together some kind of &#39;suggestion site&#39; as a way for the &#39;traders&#39; to post their ideas regarding the sale of music online, and then they (the music industry) would be able to begin thinking outside the box for a change. I&#39;m sure there are many, many people not only here in our forum, but elsewhere who have some really great ideas to offer up. And the sooner they (the recording industry) get their heads out of the sand, the sooner they can begin to not only satisfy the real music fan, but they will begin making back some of their &#39;lost&#39; &#036;&#036; as well.

Just an idea.

[Jibbler]

With all due respect, the theory that "free is cheaper, and no one will pay for something they get for free", doesn&#39;t hold water.

The person who invented the idea of bottled water had a similar "demand" problem, though it doesn&#39;t appear to have slowed down his business.

[SolidWing68]

I wouldn&#39;t pay &#036;.001 cents for a song :blink:

[bigdawgfoxx]

Hey..some of yall may not like this...but i have done a little work at best buy....the company that actually makes the cd gets 85 cents profit off each one.....best buy get 13 cents for every cd they sell....now thats some shity profit..and to lower prices nemore would suck for them terribly...i just say keep p2p FREE&#33; its good the way it is...Korns still runnin around in Ferraris, Porches, and Bentlys lol...so whats there prob.

[bigdawgfoxx]

Hey..some of yall may not like this...but i have done a little work at best buy....the company that actually makes the cd gets 85 cents profit off each one.....best buy get 13 cents for every cd they sell...so they could lower the price ONLY 98 cents...and thats with NOOOOO profit...now thats some shity profit..and to lower prices nemore would suck for them terribly...i just say keep p2p FREE&#33; its good the way it is...Korns still runnin around in Ferraris, Porches, and Bentlys lol...so whats there prob.

[clocker]

Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@2 May 2003 - 16:35
Hey..some of yall may not like this...but i have done a little work at best buy....the company that actually makes the cd gets 85 cents profit off each one.....best buy get 13 cents for every cd they sell
Who&#39;s getting the other &#036;13-15?

[bigdawgfoxx]

Hey sorry i didnt make it too clear....the record company gets like 85 cents a cd....best buy gets 13 cents a cd...and i think the band itself gets the rest...also if they used copyrighted material in there vids or songs...they might have to pay the company money for that too

[bigdawgfoxx]

and like....what the hell....p2p is awsome&#33; just cuz some peeps sing 13 songs i dont think they deserve like 20 milllion...or more....soo i mean..what p2p might have cut down on there profit to like 17 million for 13 songs...or more lol....soo i mean cmon...musicians and athlelets..which no disrespect to them..i couldnt live with my football and basketball...shouldnt get paid that much...when engineers docs scientist..and other important peeps are ACTUALLY MAKIN A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD&#33; the salaries should be switched