Riaa [Archive] - FileSharing Talk

Xanex

05-04-2003, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Jibbler+4 May 2003 - 17:22--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jibbler @ 4 May 2003 - 17:22)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--rastilin@4 May 2003 - 07:32
It's NEVER happened to me since I got windows xp pro.
Agreed. WinXP Pro is impossible to crash. Windows works so much better with lots of RAM. :) [/b][/quote]
XP does crash but when it does crash it is something really important.

Heh even linux crashes, yup thats right linux does crash , contrary to popular belief linux can be as unstable as windows, our uni pc's run red hat and they crash, not very oftern but less than xp and our xp machines rarely ecer go to full on crash. i think that xp is a nice os, it only ever crashes with me when my tv card throws a wobbly and conflicts with my gf4 driver when im messing around with video capture.

did u know that 98se requires only 64megs to run like a dream, give it 128 and its laughing, XP requires 128 min, 256 for a dream and 512 for laughing.

Xan

Jibbler

05-04-2003, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Xanex@4 May 2003 - 13:01
did u know that 98se requires only 64megs to run like a dream, give it 128 and its laughing, XP requires 128 min, 256 for a dream and 512 for laughing.

I guess I'm laughing. B) I never meant to imply that it was impossible to crash winxp pro, though its pretty damn hard. The operating system is stable as hell, since it was built based on the win nt platform. :)

ShockAndAwe^i^

05-04-2003, 09:03 PM

Allright your forgettting about the RIAA
That article is filled with evil shit they want to do and are doing! :devil:
I've never seen them with so many (evil/illegal) different strategies.
I personally think some of the stuff that they say their testing has actually been implemented.
My comp has froze up on kazaa fpr no apparent reason.
Also I have had my internet connection go dead for no apparent reason while connected to kazaa.
You know ...your still online but unable to use the internet.
When this happens I have to go reboot my connection.

BASTARDS!

There probably reading these pages all the time!
Would'nt you if you were them?

Jibbler

05-04-2003, 09:43 PM

If I were them, I'd be looking for bigger fish. This board is small potatos for the RIAA/MPAA. They won't get anywhere by attacking the leechers, they need to find the source of the problem. :o

OlderThanDirt

05-04-2003, 10:00 PM

The music industry and their RIAA toadies are involved in a number of tactics ... some new and some old. The oldest tactic seems to be working best in the conventional media ... namely, their P.R. campaign to equate the industry with "good" and sharing with "evil." And, the industry's biggest ally is the criminal justice system which, rather than protecting the public at large, has chosen to largely ignore the sins of the industry in exchange for what amounts to a cash-cow for state governments and lawyers.

For the particulars on that, read this post (http://www.klboard.ath.cx/bb/index.php?act=ST&f=40&t=29839&st=16) and some of the posts afterward.

The "new" tactics, as bad as they sound, have hit a major snag ... alluded to in the N.Y. Times article ShockAndAwe^i^ gave a link to. The industry wanted legislative blessing for these tactics and a legal umbrella of protection (limitation of civil damages) in case they hit the wrong target and were sued. That umbrella was tossed into the legislative garbage can (quote from N.Y. Times article follows):

The industry has tried to seek legislative support for aggressive measures. Representative Howard L. Berman, Democrat of California, introduced a bill last fall that would have limited the liability of copyright owners for using tougher technical counterpiracy tactics to protect their works online. But the bill was roundly criticized by privacy advocates. "There was such an immediate attack that you couldn't get a rational dialogue going," said Cary Sherman, president of the recording industry association. He said that while his organization often briefs recording companies on legal issues related to what he calls "self help" measures, "the companies deal with this stuff on their own."

And as for the more extreme approaches, he said, "It is not uncommon for engineers to think up new programs and code them. There are a lot of tantalizing ideas out there — some in the gray area and some illegal — but it doesn't mean they will be used."

Bottom-line? The industry's bark may be worse than its bite. These "new" tactics are only another scare tactic ... along with the mass instant-messages and lawsuits against a handful of P2P users to "make examples" of them -- with a wish of scaring off others. And, if they dare to employ these high-tech bites without lawsuit-cap protections, it'll only take one or two high-profile mistakes (which are bound to happen) to derail the process.

But, the industry's newest tactic may bear some fruit at first (the "carrot vs. stick" approach). By now, most people have heard of Apple's new "iTunes" scenario. The industry appears to be cautiously jumping on this bandwagon. Right now, the 99-cent-a-download service can only be used by Mac users (PC version coming in the future). And, their current catalog of selections is pretty bad. Still, even it the entire industry jumped onboard this service and PC users are let into it, I can see a problem in the future. Even Steve Jobs admits that the contracts he's signing are year-at-a-time contracts. If the service became popular, what do you suppose the RIAA would want come contract-renewal time? More money!!! 99 cents might turn into $1.99. And the more the cost goes up, the more the popularity of P2P would re-emerge. A self-defeating prophecy from the industry's angle.

Finally, in the P2P realm, the industry may have another obstacle to overcome ... the emergence of software that allows users to "mask" their origin IPs. In theory, one current P2P entity claims to include this ability in their software -- Filetopia (www.filetopia.org (http://www.filetopia.org/home.htm)) -- located in Spain.

ShockAndAwe^i^

05-04-2003, 11:33 PM

Very intellegently put!
mmm are you a lawer? <_<
You have definitely formed your opinion with many sources.
You sound like an analyist on Your World with Neil Cavuto. :D
God I love foxnews!

jibblers right - they need to go at the source and we all know what that is

That 99cent a song crap is crazy!
If you buy an entire cd from them that could add up and you don't get the liner notes and stuff.
RIPP OFF!

OlderThanDirt

05-05-2003, 12:23 AM

ShockAndAwe^i^,

Nope, not a lawyer. But I am a freelance writer, a former associate editor for a mystery magazine, and a former research editor for a market newsletter. So, I have some understanding of copyright and trademark issues.

The 99-cent-a-song idea does have merit, though. What good are liner notes on a CD if you have to pay $15-$25 for it ... and only like 2 or 3 songs on it (the others being "filler" songs you'll never listen to more than once or twice)? The "legit" services (Rhapsody, PressPlay, itunes) all address the "album concept" ripoff of the music industry ... allowing the "song-by-song" concept of downloading that made P2P popular. The problem? Current prices for these legit services won't last forever. And, the services know it. What we're seeing now is the loss-leader business tactic -- getting people sucked into the services with lowball costs ... then, gradually, start jacking up the price or making previously free services optional. It's already happened at Rhapsody. When they first started, you could get unlimited listening privileges to their entire catalog for only $4.95 a month. Now, the $4.95 tier only allows unlimited listening privileges to "online radio channels" where programming is predetermined. To get song-on-demand service, former $4.95 a month customers must now pay $9.95 a month.

In a way, it's really sad (to me, anyway). I honestly hoped Napster would evolve into a paid song-on-demand service where costs would be partially or wholly underwritten by online advertising. Had the RIAA embraced this concept early on, everyone would have been a winner -- cheap or free downloads for users -- advertising capital pumped into RIAA/artist coffers -- and advertisers with a captive audience. The RIAA held the golden key of opportunity in their hands and they pissed it away through heavy-handed control-freak policies of intimidation ... and every day, they're paying a price for it. On top of that, when the FTC and state attorneys general let the industry get away with highway robbery (keeping 65% of what they stole from music consumers), it turned a lot of people sour to the music-CD cartel and "legit" services selling their wares. Cheap or not, who'd want to do business with people selling the products of companies who'd cheated them and gotten away with it?

TIDE-HSV

05-05-2003, 12:51 AM

You may not be a lawyer, but I like the way you think. You are dead on for how the industry has worked to this point in time. They are absolutely busting a gut (and a few bank accounts) to try to shoe-horn today's digital reality into the old form. The overhead structure in the industry boggles the imagination. I have a stepson who is an artist, reknowned enough for some European and Japanese tours. He and his buds could not believe the numbers of people who have to be paid off, um, make a living, between the artists and the consumers. Everybody in the chain, and his brother, has a nephew who can't get a job anywhere else. So, the nephew gets hired - and his job is almost recession proof. Maybe, if the economic cycle should dip far enough, those nephews would get fired, but there'd be a lot of the little people, grips, extras, etc., who'd find their union hours limited before all those "nephews" fall off the payroll...

OlderThanDirt

05-05-2003, 01:02 AM

As the old saying goes, "There's many a slip between the cup and the counter."

TIDE-HSV

05-05-2003, 01:27 AM

Yep. BTW, some dirt around here is even older than you. :P

OlderThanDirt

05-05-2003, 01:44 AM

Yep. BTW, some dirt around here is even older than you.

Hehe, I'm certain of it. One of the biggest misnomers about the file-sharing community is that it's populated exclusively by the 13-35 crowd. Frankly, I think baby boomers (and those older) populate the community in far greater numbers than most people would believe. It's just that the music industry is so riled with those downloading the latest Madonna crap or hip-hop sleaze that they're ignorant of people more interested in tunes by "Jimmy Gilmer & The Fireballs" or "Hoagy Carmichael" (snicker). Heck, just as an experiment, I logged on and did a search for "Winston Churchill" ... and a full page of people sharing his speeches popped up.

Makes me wonder how many people using this software even know who he was, hehe.

Jibbler

05-05-2003, 01:46 AM

I'm happy to have the opinion of a true "senior member" on these boards. :)

OlderThanDirt

05-05-2003, 01:59 AM

Thanks, Jibbler. I just wish I was more savvy about the "technology." Still, I am on a learning curve.

TIDE-HSV

05-05-2003, 02:04 AM

Now, Jibbler, I've got ten years on him and Clocker both, and you never paid any attention to my opinions. :lol:

clocker

05-05-2003, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by TIDE-HSV@4 May 2003 - 20:04
Now, Jibbler, I've got ten years on him and Clocker both, and you never paid any attention to my opinions. :lol:
Eh?

Speak to my good ear, willya?

TIDE-HSV

05-05-2003, 02:16 AM

If you had a good ear, I'd've already had it. :lol:

Jibbler

05-05-2003, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by TIDE-HSV@4 May 2003 - 22:04
Now, Jibbler, I've got ten years on him and Clocker both, and you never paid any attention to my opinions. :lol:
Haha, I always paid attention, you're my favorite lawyer in disguise on these forums.

And I was just thinking to myself, isn't it about time Clocker showed up for a daily dose of "the logistics of filesharing" by the Notorious JIB :) :D :lol:

clocker

05-05-2003, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by Jibbler@4 May 2003 - 20:17

And I was just thinking to myself, isn't it about time Clocker showed up for a daily dose of "the logistics of filesharing" by the Notorious JIB :) :D :lol:
I have assumed the position. :P

TIDE-HSV

05-05-2003, 02:22 AM

As a lawyer, I find someone "assuming the positon" irresistable. :D

Jibbler

05-05-2003, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by clocker+4 May 2003 - 22:20--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 4 May 2003 - 22:20)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jibbler@4 May 2003 - 20:17

And I was just thinking to myself, isn't it about time Clocker showed up for a daily dose of "the logistics of filesharing" by the Notorious JIB :)  :D  :lol:
I have assumed the position. :P [/b][/quote]
If only I could fit my avatar head into the ass of your avatar :P

clocker

05-05-2003, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by TIDE-HSV@4 May 2003 - 20:22
As a lawyer, I find someone "assuming the positon" irresistable. :D
So, I think, would a physicist... :unsure:

TIDE-HSV

05-05-2003, 02:34 AM

OK, macro or micro? We talking quantum mechanics or inter-galactic shit? :P

I mean, in QM, position is everything...

clocker

05-05-2003, 02:37 AM

Originally posted by Jibbler@4 May 2003 - 20:22

If only I could fit my avatar head into the ass of your avatar :P
Many are called, but few are chosen!

ShockAndAwe^i^

05-05-2003, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@5 May 2003 - 02:44

Yep. BTW, some dirt around here is even older than you.

Hehe, I'm certain of it. One of the biggest misnomers about the file-sharing community is that it's populated exclusively by the 13-35 crowd. Heck, just as an experiment, I logged on and did a search for "Winston Churchill" ... and a full page of people sharing his speeches popped up.

Makes me wonder how many people using this software even know who he was, hehe.
"Hoagy Carmichael" Who's He? :lol: :lol:
It sounds to me were all over 35.

Btw "OlderThanDirt" I like'd your posts better than the NY times.
Great Stuff!

Gotta get me some churchill!

RealitY

05-05-2003, 07:51 AM

Geez you guys are on a roll, and I have only been gone a day.
By the way OlderThanDirt, I don't know how you arrived at this board, but nice havin' ya.

I must say prior to becoming a member I did not expect to see members such as yourself, or TIDE for that matter.
You guys will make gOOd company as cellmates (haha). :lol: :lol:

OlderThanDirt

05-05-2003, 10:49 PM

By the way OlderThanDirt, I don't know how you arrived at this board, but nice havin' ya.

Thanks. Just popped into the forum after the Grokster/StreamCast court decision to see if anyone was countering the myth of the RIAA being the "good guy" in this whole brouhaha. Frankly, I'm flabbergasted at how mainstream media portrays file-sharing as EVIL and yet is willing to give a wink and a nod to the RIAA after the music industry, thanks to our courts, got away with the biggest ripoff of music consumers in history ... and even got to keep 65% of the $400,000,000 they stole from us (a crime that started at least 4 years before Napster was developed).

My mind boggles (sigh). What we're witnessing now isn't good vs. evil ... it's big thief vs. little thief, with the little thieves trying to steal back part of what the big thief had already stolen from them.

You guys will make gOOd company as cellmates (haha).

Hmmm ... I hear some prisons give inmates access to computers (grin).

MOTOMATT

05-05-2003, 11:09 PM

:D olderthandirt i enjoyed your post. :)

ShockAndAwe^i^

05-06-2003, 02:46 AM

Yeah they did the same damn thing with DAT (digital audio tape) players.
They killed that for years and when they finally decided to compromise and let people make 1 copy (digitally) it was to little to late.
The technology was getting old and CD's were taking over the market.
Speaking of which I was in Japan in 1981-1984 and cd's were already there!
1981!! :o
I did'nt even know what they were at first.
I don't think they were allowed in the US untill 1984 or 5 or later.
I'm not shure what went on then but it just had to be the RIAA.

1981 !!!

RealitY

05-06-2003, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@5 May 2003 - 23:49
My mind boggles (sigh). What we're witnessing now isn't good vs. evil ... it's big thief vs. little thief, with the little thieves trying to steal back part of what the big thief had already stolen from them.
I don't know if I can agree with this as it only tries to justify our actions, though we are wrong in the sense of how most of us use this service, sorry to say. Simply put, two wrongs don't make a rght. I am not here by any means to try and justify anything. As I have said before the issue at hand here is our freedom, or parts of it that we will lose due to being theives. Once again, we are to be treated as we act, and do not be surprised at what may lay around the corner.

OlderThanDirt

05-06-2003, 04:20 AM

I don't know if I can agree with this as it only tries to justify our actions, though we are wrong in the sense of how most of us use this service, sorry to say. Simply put, two wrongs don't make a rght. I am not here by any means to try and justify anything. As I have said before the issue at hand here is our freedom, or parts of it that we will lose due to being theives. Once again, we are to be treated as we act, and do not be surprised at what may lay around the corner.

I understand where you're coming from but here's my take. And, while I can only speak for myself, I know others feel likewise. The axiom, "two wrongs don't make a right" implies the existence of an "authority" that will deal effectively and potently with the "first wrong." When an industry dips its hands into the pockets of John Q. Consumer, steals $400,000,000 from his wallet, and the "authority" allows the industry to keep $256,925,000 of it (not to mention keeping some of it for themselves), the effectiveness and potency of that authority comes into question in monumental proportions. And, John Q. Consumer is left asking, "What, then, will make a right?"

You are correct that "we are to be treated as we act" ... which is exactly how the music industry is being treated right now by the consumers they've chosen (and I do mean chosen) to disrespect. And civil disobedience is a time-honored tradition from Henry David Thoreau down to Martin Luther King ... and beyond ... as a means of dealing with "authority gone amok."

What lies around the corner? Who can say? But, I do have a prediction. The music industry has chosen to cross a line separating them from intimidation of client creators/providers to intimidation of their own consumer base. And, they are considering a policy of launching electronic attacks against them. Again, the industry will find themselves "treated as they act." We're on the verge of a revolution in stealth-P2P utilities, countermeasures developed by the client creators/providers who were first intimidated. And, regardless of the legality of file-sharing, sharers are also customers of anti-viral software and firewalls ... and those creators will have to increase the integrity of their protection schemes if they want to retain their market share (especially since some of these electronic attacks may be misdirected).

In short, we're seeing the beginnings of World War E ... and how or when it will ever end is anybody's guess.

Jibbler

05-06-2003, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@6 May 2003 - 00:20
In short, we're seeing the beginnings of World War E ... and how or when it will ever end is anybody's guess.
World War E? as in, the "electronic war".. damn, the idea makes my mouth water.. B)

OlderThanDirt

05-06-2003, 04:50 AM

World War E? as in, the "electronic war"..

Yup. It's a shame things had to come to this point. But, considering what the industry and criminal justice system have done to the music consumer, I don't see any other alternative. "Wrong" and "right" are pretty blurry when judicial authority takes a vacation. And, while it may be intuitively wrong to use P2P utilities to share copyrighted material, it certainly isn't right to let the first thieves get away with robbery by bending over to them and saying:

"Stick it up there, Cap'n, high and tight."

OlderThanDirt

05-06-2003, 05:17 AM

FWIW, here's a tome I like to share with friends.

On December 16, 1773, a group of American colonists, under the cover of night, boarded 3 British vessels in Boston Harbor and tossed tons of tea into the bay to protest being gouged by an unfair tea tax. The British authority considered them thieves and pirates. But nowadays, those colonists are seen as heroes of the American Revolution.

Tomorrow, a group of American netheads, under the cover of stealth P2P utilities, will board the Internet backbone and toss tons of MP3s into the ether to protest being gouged by an unfair resolution to a multi-million-dollar crime against them. Nowadays, the prevailing authority considers them thieves and pirates. But tomorrow, will those netheads be seen as heroes of the multimedia revolution?

RealitY

05-06-2003, 08:48 AM

I don't think we'll be hereos as the main motive abroad is "greed" for many of us. Examples of poor conduct are simple to show such as cam versions of films yet to be released, tmd and the like, or software pirates with cracks and keygen, some of these titles not even available for sale yet.

It is crystal clear that those of us using p2p are far from heroes, nor would I dare say that we are here to have vengence on another thief. We are seen as much greater thieves at large than they are for the reasons above. Free sells and greed grows fast, we are simply seen as greedy children that want everything for free.

I read an article that simply mentioned the two mistakes not to make. One for each side.

For Them...
Not to take part in becoming the beast they are becoming asking for rights to take our rights away and start hacking and slamming into however and whatever they deem fit without recourse, using the DCMA as the interpitation for such behavior.

For Us...
It was compared to the Boston Tea Party, though my history is poor, the statement would not have been as strong had they stolen the Tea, would it? Well, I think you get the point.

Don't get me wrong, f**k 'em, they're a dinasour (those in the music biz), and they are already all but extinct. I am waiting, as it is happening already for artist to sell directly to the consumer. I will not buy anything from a record store, nor do I remember what one lOOks like on the inside. Funny, had they embraced Napster, which was centralized, and had control over content, they could have implemented whatever structure they chose. Insted they choose to throw rocks at a tidal wave.

Regarding www.earthstation5.com/ nice link, looks very interesting, and yes this is where most of us will be very soon, using p2p that are encryptid and the like, I already use Filetopia, this is our future as smart theives. :D :D

Edited by Rat Faced:
I removed the link to earthstation5.com as it included a direct download, which isnt allowed....looks interesting though ;)

j2k4

05-06-2003, 01:45 PM

Wow.

Reading in this forum has never been such a pleasure. I almost feel lucky the fact I haven't been able to do so much lately has resulted in my finding this thread late enough so that all that needed saying had already been said.

I am heartened by the massing here of intellects of similar bent, and find my recollections of many of Sir Winston's words appropriate-"WE SHALL NEVER SURRENDER..."

My only regret is that I am merely "as old" as some dirt.

BTW-I wonder if I'd get the RIAA pop-up if I DL'd some Winston?

OlderThanDirt

05-06-2003, 11:51 PM

I don't think we'll be hereos as the main motive abroad is "greed" for many of us.

On the hero part, you're probably right (grin). On the motive part, I suspect there are many. My motive is stark anger. And, I can't help but think that the motive for some users is the sense of empowerment over an unwielding adversary (ala David vs. Goliath) ... the metaphorical "unfriendly hand gesture" I referred to in the article I wrote. I don't deny that greed is a motive ... but, because of how I feel about the industry and the "state of justice" in this country, I'm not going to criticize that greed. The threats being made against file-sharers are jail time and fines to be paid out of their own pockets. The only money the industry paid back, as ordered in the settlement, was "other people's" money. The court should have ordered a full return of the $400 million AND a punitive award on top of that. And missing in this whole scenario was Justice Department insistence that the five cartel CEOs should have cooled their heels in a Federal pen ... even if it was only a "token" sentence of, say, a month. I'm reminded of lyrics from a Steppenwolf song, "The Monster" --

There's a monster on the loose,
It's got our head through the noose,
And it just sits there .... watchin' ....

To classify file-sharers as merely "thieves," to me, is a far too simplistic tag. But certainly, this is the tag the industry wants to see accepted as the proper tag. They want the public to accept the notion of industry=good and sharing=evil. And more than that, they want sharers themselves to feel the same way ... to feel guilty about what they're doing ... to forget about what's been done to them as music consumers and just "take it up the ol' wazoo."

I am waiting, as it is happening already for artist to sell directly to the consumer. I will not buy anything from a record store, nor do I remember what one lOOks like on the inside.

I agree. But, while greed is perhaps an underlying motive, I think "control of the spicket" from whence things flow is the real issue. In theory, the consumer should be in the driver's seat of any market. In most markets, they are ... but not in the music market. The industry has controlled so much of it for so long and they want stay in the driver's seat. Unfortunately for the industry, sharing won't allow them to sit "comfortably" in that driver's seat. And, if pressure on the industry continues (and it will, regardless of threats or the making of examples via litigation), I think we'll see the day when the industry will be "put in its place," as it were.

OlderThanDirt

05-06-2003, 11:55 PM

j2k4 wrote:

BTW-I wonder if I'd get the RIAA pop-up if I DL'd some Winston?

Shhhhh ... they may be listening (grin). Of course, if they started demanding compensation for sharing the speeches of Adolph Hitler (yes, there are a few out there being shared), I'd understand the industry's motives (wicked grin).

TIDE-HSV

05-07-2003, 12:14 AM

I've assumed all along that they (RIAA) are listening. About "Adi's" speeches, are you talking about audio or just the written version? My (formerly, but totally rehabbed <g>) NAZI next-door neighbor used to tell me about how spell-binding he was as an orator. (This guy was a PHD physicist prof at the U of Darmstadt). Reading the speeches, the German seems, well, pretty basic. I assumed that you had have been there - and had a receptive ear. I'd like to listen to some of them at length, just for curiosity. If I feel moved to jump up and salute "Sieg Heil," I'm sure I can restrain my right hand with the other, a la Sellers in "Stranglove." :lol:

OlderThanDirt

05-07-2003, 12:48 AM

About "Adi's" speeches, are you talking about audio or just the written version?

Audio. Of course, knowing German is a help on that. I took one class in German when I was in college but have forgotten most of it. But, there's plenty of hate-based audio out there in English. There is a dark side of the file-sharing world (neo-Nazi, Aryan, Klan music). This is slightly off-topic but, when I was a kid, I was certain my step-dad was a Klan member. One day, we were watching a CBS news special on the Klan (when I was a kid) and they played a 45-rpm record that was very popular in "certain circles." And as they played it, I could hear my step-dad humming it ... as if he already knew it. And he smiled as the lyrics were sung. Here's the refrain:

America for whites,
Africa for blacks,
Keep those monkeys in the trees,
Ship those niggers back. <-- (the song's title)

The artist's name (or pseudonym) was "Johnny Rebel." As an experiment, log on and search for songs by that artist. Every time I perform the experiment, my screen fills (shudder).

If I feel moved to jump up and salute "Sieg Heil," I'm sure I can restrain my right hand with the other, a la Sellers in "Stranglove."

True fact. The currunt "under God" controversy was not the first controversy over the Pledge of Allegiance. The first controversy came in 1942. Prior to '42, while reading the pledge, children gave a raised-right-hand salute (known as the Bellamy Salute, named after Francis Bellamy - the pledge's author). But in 1942, people became angry at how much the Bellamy Salute resembled the Nazi salute -- and the salute was changed to a right hand held over the heart. I often wonder whether Hitler "stole" America's raised right-handed salute because he thought it looked cool, hehe.

OlderThanDirt

05-07-2003, 01:45 AM

This is so appropro. Here is the image of file-sharing (click here (http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=4eILRUMKivDeURGMmVPwoZ3bV&ext=.jpg)) that the RIAA wants everyone to accept.

Jibbler

05-07-2003, 03:27 AM

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@6 May 2003 - 21:45
This is so appropro. Here is the image of file-sharing (click here (http://galleries.vinyamar.com/ps/show.php?id=4eILRUMKivDeURGMmVPwoZ3bV&ext=.jpg)) that the RIAA wants everyone to accept.
Great fucking link. :) As a professional filesharer (a title I gave myself), there is some gloom in all this free music. Some heroin addicts talk about "getting high from the ritual." Basically this refers to the anxiety and excitement of preparing their fix, cooking it up, getting the needle ready... you get the idea. Its all about the power and energy involved before the high.

Since I rarely buy music, I miss this the most. I miss overwhelming feeling of standing in front of the CD rack, browsing this Tuesday's new releases. I miss the inner city kid, wearing a Best Buy tshirt, making $5 an hour, cashing me out. And I also miss the perfectly wrapped, yet impossible to open shrinkwrap hologram. What kind of futurist space material is this shit made out of?

C'mon guys, you can't get that online. Can you? :huh: :huh: :huh:

RealitY

05-07-2003, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@7 May 2003 - 00:51

I don't think we'll be hereos as the main motive abroad is "greed" for many of us.
To classify file-sharers as merely "thieves," to me, is a far too simplistic tag. But certainly, this is the tag the industry wants to see accepted as the proper tag. They want the public to accept the notion of industry=good and sharing=evil. And more than that, they want sharers themselves to feel the same way ... to feel guilty about what they're doing ... to forget about what's been done to them as music consumers and just "take it up the ol' wazoo."
First I can only add that the "greed" abroad will be, and is to be, used as ammunniton against us all to remove yet another piece of our freedom.

Alhough, the tag may be simple it is REALITY. we are seen as "greedy children" (sorta harmless, but bad) at large, I do not believe anyone sees them as the good guys. In addittion, I personally will feel far from guilty, nor will I forget, or justify what I do by referring to the past.

RealitY

05-07-2003, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by Jibbler@7 May 2003 - 04:27
Since I rarely buy music, I miss this the most. I miss overwhelming feeling of standing in front of the CD rack, browsing this Tuesday's new releases. I miss the inner city kid, wearing a Best Buy tshirt, making $5 an hour, cashing me out. And I also miss the perfectly wrapped, yet impossible to open shrinkwrap hologram. What kind of futurist space material is this shit made out of?

C'mon guys, you can't get that online. Can you? :huh: :huh: :huh:
As I do as well, since this expereince is now long forgot, but yet here is a different type of high to be able to get what you want, when you want, and fast (provided you have broadband, as the the experience becomes quite frustrating at 56k), regardless of financial status. What would I call this, well maybe...
Power or Control? :lol: :lol:

OlderThanDirt

05-07-2003, 07:12 PM

First I can only add that the "greed" abroad will be, and is to be, used as ammunniton against us all to remove yet another piece of our freedom.

I agree the "greed" color will be broadbrushed over every P2P user and used as you say, but you and I use P2P for different motives. But, I'm not trying to justify anything by referring to the past. Because file sharers know what the music industry did to them as music consumers ... starting before Napster was even born ... we need to make sure we're not the only people who remember. If necessary, sharers need to rub the public's nose in the misdeeds of the music industry ... even if those misdeeds have nothing to do with a sharer's motive for sharing. More now than ever, when laws are being considered to our detriment, we need to enlighten those who don't know (or who have forgotten) that the industry's sheets are far from clean ... and that a great injustice was given a wrist-slap. By making a black/white situation appear grayer, the public at large (and their lawmakers) might not be so quick to accept those "pieces of freedom" being removed. In fact, some may get downright ornery.

On that note, I have some tentative good news. An abbreviated version of my article has gotten preliminary acceptance by USA Today. It's going before their editorial board for consideration. I should know something soon (I hope), either way. In short, if it gets accepted and published, I'll have done my part to keep this in the public eye. If its rejected, well ... at least I tried.

OlderThanDirt

05-07-2003, 08:00 PM

P.S. to last -- Speaking of USA Today, read their May 5th Editorial (click here (http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-05-05-our-view_x.htm)).

TIDE-HSV

05-07-2003, 08:19 PM

Let us know if it gets accepted. I have a contact with them, but, unfortunately, it's with the sports department.

OlderThanDirt

05-07-2003, 08:34 PM

Let us know if it gets accepted. I have a contact with them, but, unfortunately, it's with the sports department.

Will do. Hehe, if my luck at getting published holds its recent course, it's not likely. But, hope springs eternal ... especially after reading that editorial I linked to in my last post. Apparently, USA Today doesn't think much of the music industry's mindset. So, my article might meet a friendly eye. Knock on wood.

RealitY

05-08-2003, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@7 May 2003 - 20:12
Because file sharers know what the music industry did to them as music consumers
Wow, no matter how much I attemt to play on the other side of the fence (as much as I am willing), I am yet to "beat" you down on days gone past about what the "bigger thief" had done. :lol: Don't be confused, I enjoyed your artice, as it could open up a shallow minded view quite easily :unsure:

First, many file sharers...
Do not partake here for stories they may not even remember.
Most find it "fun and free", and we all love free, even the rich.
There seems to be many that get a thrill in getting it before it can be got.
Many are here for alotta porn, less and less for music.
Not to offend but just the other side of your coin,
are sure you still wish to fight with and for us? <_< :unsure: :) :D

As for me in all my confusion, well after 200+ posts...
I believe as when I was younger, if I cruised to my freinds house and he had a copy of Zep on a new LP, I grabbed the extra high quality tape (mx I think), and spun a copy. Nope didn't pay for it, and if someone wanted to make a copy of mine, go at it. I figuerd the original "dude" owned his and wanted to "share" and so forth. No flatfoot was gonna check my tapes in my walkman and bust me for that while I was jaywalking.

I don't think it matters that you bought that music at one time, nor do I think the act of '82 means crap when potentially crammed up against the DCMA. You do seem to make a case for what you download based on this though, but is this to set you apart from those you are on a crusade with, or do wish to give us purpose in our "greed"?

I am little grown up now and know the REALITY of the law and am concerned with the future to be handed to our children. In all, or at least for the moment, I don't believe they will win. They are just not important enough while being a dying breed to get that much power and control, it's to late, they're desperate, and their train has left, while they st :huh: :huh: d at the terminal. In the end, either we will be left alone or not (at all).

05-08-2003, 08:12 AM

the RIAA can stick themselves up there ass :angry: :angry:

RealitY

05-08-2003, 08:32 AM

Who is in that picture? I must know.

OlderThanDirt

05-08-2003, 05:12 PM

I don't think it matters that you bought that music at one time, nor do I think the act of '82 means crap when potentially crammed up against the DCMA. You do seem to make a case for what you download based on this though, but is this to set you apart from those you are on a crusade with, or do wish to give us purpose in our "greed"?

Sigh. I admit that I feel a bit like Don Quixote, tilting at windmills. But, I guess that's just me. My anger at the music industry ripoff is just a more recent anger. And because of this anger, I'm willing to overlook what you refer to as "greed" in some P2P users. My overall anger, however, runs much deeper than anything the music industry has been doing. For an insight into that, read this short thread (http://www.klboard.ath.cx/bb/index.php?act=ST&f=13&t=32352). If you want to accept the current REALITY and do nothing about it, that's your choice. There's a much bigger rights battle going on right now of which the electronic battle is just a part. Whenever I can, I let my elected representatives know about it (in writing, not by email which is too easy to ignore). Others do, too. And, whenever I can, I pepper a publisher or two with my thoughts on the issue. Whether or not I make it to print doesn't matter much to me (though getting paid is a good feeling, hehe). But doing something about it does matter ... to me, anyway.

P.S. FWIW, read this recent article (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9380) as well and pay particular attention to the last sentence:

Just as a government investigation of payola in the 1960s was justified on the grounds of it being in the consumers' interest so too, in my opinion, is a review required into the activities of the RIAA.

Are the sins of the past REALLY of the past ... or are they continuing under some other guise other than MAP? My article, as I said, is meant to keep the RIAA's dirty laundry fresh in the public eye. This article is much more concise.

RealitY

05-08-2003, 08:31 PM

By the way OTD, I started a post that I thought you may reply to HERE (http://www.klboard.ath.cx/bb/index.php?act=ST&f=13&t=32352) regarding the link you posted to the USA today article and the unfortunate statements made within.

I was going to leave a link to another article posted on the site of The Faimous One, but it appears his site may be down along with the others he is associated with at Fast Track, what is going lately.

The Knife Thrower

05-08-2003, 08:54 PM

Perhaps someone should create a program so people can donate bandwith to a good cause (DDOS attacks on the RIAA servers).

I know programs like this already exist, but we could have one where people would voluntary download it.

RealitY

05-08-2003, 08:55 PM

In addition OTD, you are doing us all a great service and we should all write, email and call to voice our opinions. The folks in the “biz” need to F**K OFF and go away fast.

Last night I was doing a search on something when I saw a file that came up which I knew had to be a fake, usually I only use verifieds on KL, well I was curious and started the download stopping it after a minute. I checked and it was a fake that came directly out of one of their IP’s. I know this because at the time I took 41 hits on my Peer Guardian after having near to none since installation. Those f**kers are bored sitting around with computers on connected to the network waiting for someone to download one of their fake files so they can attempt to probe your ass.

My use of KL seems to be less and less as time goes on considering the pure fact that this network is filled with malicious code and the makers have done little to cloak our activities such as Filetopia and others. Not to mention as many will point out it is the last in line to get anything anyway. I am even becoming questionable about the vulnerability of bittorent lately.

As far as those in the “biz”, I will stop buying anything that they are the profiteers from that sale. They have alienated one more customer forever.

Jibbler

05-08-2003, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by REALITY@8 May 2003 - 16:55
My use of KL seems to be less and less as time goes on considering the pure fact that this network is filled with malicious code and the makers have done little to cloak our activities such as Filetopia and others.
In all honesty, the RIAA isn't really a problem. Sure we read about them in the news, and the occasional piracy bust, but mostly, its just smoke and mirrors. Filetopia is a new service, and there is little proof that it even works. Kazaa is on par with every other filesharing program. When a true need for higher security arrises, then encryption and IP masking will follow.

Cloaking our activities sounds alot like "hiding from the law". B)

RealitY

05-09-2003, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by Jibbler@9 May 2003 - 00:42
Cloaking our activities sounds alot like "hiding from the law". B)
I would only state I rather not be bothered by fakes, malicious code or those that seem to be on a constant watch patrol. Though I do not intend on leaving soon, only I am opening my herizons for days to come. Of course Fast Track still remains the fastest p2p network by far, which is, at the moment, one of the most important factors of my use.

Jibbler

05-09-2003, 01:26 AM

I actually downloaded that new Shareza today, and its pretty neat. It combines different networks like bittorrent, kazaa and emule. Not a bad interface either, though it seems a bit slow to me. It had some sort of built in privacy feature, but I have yet to figure out what it does exactly.

I didn't mean to downgrade Filetopia as a service/client, I was just mentioning that they are "one of a kind" because there hasn't been a big need for privacy in the past. Of course, this will soon change, so let put some money into their stock now. By years end, we could be rich. ;)

OlderThanDirt

05-09-2003, 01:55 AM

REALITY wrote:

By the way OTD, I started a post that I thought you may reply to HERE regarding the link you posted to the USA today article and the unfortunate statements made within.

Didn't see it. I've replied to it now.

RealitY

05-09-2003, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by Jibbler@9 May 2003 - 02:26
I didn't mean to downgrade Filetopia as a service/client, I was just mentioning that they are "one of a kind" because there hasn't been a big need for privacy in the past. Of course, this will soon change, so let put some money into their stock now. By years end, we could be rich. ;)
See ya at da BANK.

I'll check the new Shareaza, and OTD also mentioned earthstation5 which seems interesting to say the least.

Shareaza or Shareza, I think the first.

OlderThanDirt

05-09-2003, 02:32 AM

Jibbler wrote:

Cloaking our activities sounds alot like "hiding from the law".

You've really got to read that article in The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9380) (the British newspaper, not the American tabloid). The RIAA is NOT the law. The only thing people are hiding from are private entities who are acting like they're the law. If I slapped on a blue uniform and badge and started hassling people on the street, I'd be arrested for impersonating a police officer. So far, the RIAA has managed to get away with that crime. As The Inquirer said:

It is not an independent and duly authorised legal body and yet has acquired for itself the power to hack into any computer to examine the contents of the hard disk and the power to deposit new software or modify exiting software.

The more the RIAA acts like the Gestapo, and the more the print media catches them at it, the more the public will realize the true danger to their rights ... even if they don't share files themselves. It's all a matter of time. The RIAA has embarked on what may be the biggest public relations blunder of all time. May the force be with them ... until their dark side becomes common knowledge.

RealitY

05-09-2003, 03:00 AM

Amen, well put.

OlderThanDirt

05-09-2003, 03:17 AM

The only danger I see in all this was something I alluded to earlier ... that the multi-billion-dollar music industry might decide it's more cost-effective to toss "money" at the problem instead of threats. They could, for example, buy out major broadband entities. But, there's a cheaper alternative. FastTrack is the biggest target. And, Sharman Networks Ltd. is, after all, a business. What if the industry went to Sharman and said, "OK, you win. We're dropping all our lawsuits against you ... BUT ... would you sell us FastTrack for, say, $100 million?"

If they were to acquire FastTrack ownership, then they could threaten users without looking like the Gestapo. They'd merely be software owners, protecting their interests by punishing those using their software in a manner they don't approve of. And if FastTrack became industry property, smaller P2P creators/distributors might be even cheaper to acquire using the "We don't really want to haul your asses into court. But, we will do so ... unless ... you're willing to sell us rights to your software for $X million. Whattaya say?" tactic.

Sorry about mentioning such a nighmare. But, I wasn't the first one to think of it. It was mentioned as a possible industry strategy in an earlier Inquirer article.

echidna

05-09-2003, 03:39 AM

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@9 May 2003 - 12:32

Jibbler wrote:

Cloaking our activities sounds alot like "hiding from the law".

It is not an independent and duly authorised legal body and yet has acquired for itself the power to hack into any computer to examine the contents of the hard disk and the power to deposit new software or modify exiting software.

You don't smoke spliffs with narcs, but that won't stop anyone smoking spliff, or change the fact that spliffs are great

i don't know if they're still doing it but in the initial release, micro$oft reserved the right to add remove and exectute code on any XP system without any prior consent as part of your installation licience agreement, because in their eyes since all code on you XP box runs within a M$ jacket the system is therefore micro$ofts and you just have one or more licences to execute the code

at least M$ have a contract with the targets of this maddness
the RIAA are just corperate scale hackers if they start accessing systems without authority
[what if micro$oft granted/licienced the RIAA it's own 'option' of interfering with your XP box or did so on the RIAA's behalf?]

:: run your firewall from startup kiddies :ph34r: 4 whateva good it might B

OlderThanDirt

05-09-2003, 04:58 AM

With Micro$oft, anything is possible.

Jibbler

05-09-2003, 04:58 AM

Yes, well, I don't see it being an issue for much longer. Bill Gates has a plan. (http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/05/07/microsoft.security.ap/index.html)

But the same platform could be employed by content creators -- who include software makers like Microsoft. They could severely limit how materials are copied or even how long they last -- a stark contrast from the freedoms of today's computers.

Gates said the format of digital content is up to their creators, and Microsoft is only providing a platform on which record labels and movie studios -- as well as others -- can build. He said it's in the content provider's interest to use simple copy protection schemes.

It's Bill Gates plan to put the anti-piracy in the hardware, not the software. He's too smart for his own good. :o

OlderThanDirt

05-09-2003, 05:08 AM

It's Bill Gates plan to put the anti-piracy in the hardware, not the software. He's too smart for his own good.

I expect this plan involves the new 64-bit operating systems since that's his focus for 2004/2005 and beyond:

Users can opt to "turn off" the system when it becomes available, most likely in the next generation of Windows expected in 2004 or 2005.

So, just make sure you snap up the best state-of-the-art 32-bit system you can before they're no longer sold.

echidna

05-09-2003, 05:34 AM

there's always a workaround
we just don't know what it is
apart from anything else why would we want to change to M$ media format
if someone is going to improve mp3 my money wouldn't be on M$

tis a bit scarey though
bring on better linux distributions
[BTW you can buy linux apple G4s out of the shop these days]

MagicNakor

05-09-2003, 05:34 AM

Just wait until that system comes out. The older and "outdated" system prices will fall like a stone. ;)

Gotta love the computer industry.

:ninja:

OlderThanDirt

05-09-2003, 05:48 AM

Assuming Micro$oft follows through with their plans, and assuming that hardware sellers go along with those plans (the latter isn't necessarily set in stone), I'd like to do a straw poll of sorts.

Currently, I run Win98SE on a low-end P3 500mhz system with 256 megs RAM (overkill on the RAM, perhaps). I may eventually upgrade to a faster P4. Point is, I can't think of anything useful I could do with a 64-bit system that can't be done in a 32-bit environment. Does anyone here plan on upgrading to a 64-bit system when it comes out? And, if so, what things would you want it to do that you can't do now with a 32-bit system?

Also, while the speed of processing power is growing exponentially, the speed of hardware has not. If your hard drive has a top speed of 7200 rpm, it doesn't care a hoot in Hell if a faster processor is demanding information from it at a faster clip. The hard drive is just going to deliver information at the best speed it can muster ... period. I think we're getting to the point where a "personal" computer is doing all that people want personal computers to do ... and that only business environments will be all that hot on getting the new toy on the block when the time for unveiling comes around. And when Intel/AMD market their new Maserati-type chip to the public and Bill Gates releases an OS for it, they both might find themselves in for a big surprise ... that the public at large is more than happy with their Corvette-type chips and OS and have no plans on buying something they don't need. Actually, Gates may have smelled that coffee already ... which is why Microsoft is beginning to diversify into the home-entertainment realm and is no longer relying solely on OS development and software development for income.

OlderThanDirt

05-09-2003, 07:48 AM

Brief note on my op-ed submission to USA Today. Editor Chris Collins contacted me today with a thanks but no thanks. Ces la vie. Perhaps I'll find another home for it.

Jibbler

05-10-2003, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by echidna@9 May 2003 - 01:34
there's always a workaround
we just don't know what it is
apart from anything else why would we want to change to M$ media format

Well, this isn't necessarily true. There has always been a workaround in the past, because the software and the hardware were different things. Microsoft is talking about partnering with Intel and AMD to use their anti-piracy software by integrating it into the hardware. Sure you'll have an option to turn it off, but they can also ban you from any network if your hardware doesn't meet the specifications. So its a very real possibility that Microsoft could elimate filesharing as we know it.

Besides, we aren't talking about a Microsoft media format, we're just talking about Digital Licences for music, or possibly, mp3 files that you can freely share, but that can't be burned to disk. Another idea, would be mp3 files that will only play for a limited amount of time, then they become useless. These are very real possibilites, and we need to watch this very closely. :huh:

ShockAndAwe^i^

05-10-2003, 08:30 AM

I saw this on CNN today.
I head the Bill Gates answer "you can just turn it off " and thought..thats good.
then I read this and thought..what a lie
Microsoft acts like there doing consumers a big favor!

MagicNakor

05-10-2003, 09:36 AM

It's unfortunate that they're overlooking the very legal aspects to both filesharing and (more importantly) back-up copies.

:ninja:

junkyardking

05-10-2003, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@9 May 2003 - 05:48
Assuming Micro$oft follows through with their plans, and assuming that hardware sellers go along with those plans (the latter isn't necessarily set in stone), I'd like to do a straw poll of sorts.

Currently, I run Win98SE on a low-end P3 500mhz system with 256 megs RAM (overkill on the RAM, perhaps).  I may eventually upgrade to a faster P4.  Point is, I can't think of anything useful I could do with a 64-bit system that can't be done in a 32-bit environment.  Does anyone here plan on upgrading to a 64-bit system when it comes out?  And, if so, what things would you want it to do that you can't do now with a 32-bit system?

Also, while the speed of processing power is growing exponentially, the speed of hardware has not.  If your hard drive has a top speed of 7200 rpm, it doesn't care a hoot in Hell if a faster processor is demanding information from it at a faster clip.  The hard drive is just going to deliver information at the best speed it can muster ... period.  I think we're getting to the point where a "personal" computer is doing all that people want personal computers to do ... and that only business environments will be all that hot on getting the new toy on the block when the time for unveiling comes around.  And when Intel/AMD market their new Maserati-type chip to the public and Bill Gates releases an OS for it, they both might find themselves in for a big surprise ... that the public at large is more than happy with their Corvette-type chips and OS and have no plans on buying something they don't need.  Actually, Gates may have smelled that coffee already ... which is why Microsoft is beginning to diversify into the home-entertainment realm and is no longer relying solely on OS development and software development for income.
I think the need for faster & better computers will still be required not just for business apps, but because the need to handle multimedia which keeps getting higher in quality requiring more speed and efficenty from chips,
a good example of this is games although alot like consoles, pc's are still better even the top computers have trouble playing just released games.

The future of the Internet will probaly be virtual reality and todays computer still cant handle what will be required.

But what will the big push for will be for portable computers that are small with alot of power to handle multimedia communications and the like.
Although we have small pocket devices now, they still lack the power required for true multimedia communication, pc's tend to set the benchmark for the pocket devices and this will continue to happen.

Switeck

05-10-2003, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by REALITY@6 May 2003 - 03:48
For Us...
It was compared to the Boston Tea Party, though my history is poor, the statement would not have been as strong had they stolen the Tea, would it? Well, I think you get the point.The equivalent to the Boston Tea Party would be _destroying_ CD stocks of music stores.
We are neither destroying the merchandise nor blocking its sales.
We are just 'misusing' our personal printing presses (computers) to illegally copy copywrited materials.
Stolen tea on the other hand couldn't be used by someone else, since theft implies depravation of use.

OlderThanDirt

05-11-2003, 02:03 AM

Jibbler wrote:

Well, this isn't necessarily true. There has always been a workaround in the past, because the software and the hardware were different things. Microsoft is talking about partnering with Intel and AMD to use their anti-piracy software by integrating it into the hardware.

The problem is that other companies besides Intel & AMD make CPUs. Joe Consumer might be willing to "go with the flow" and just buy what the industry sells. Other consumers who, like me, "build" rather than "buy" their systems, would take our business elsewhere. Intel/AMD are just the biggest CPU manufacturers, not the only CPU manufacturers. And, if a Micro$oft OS won't recognize CPUs without the anti-piracy integration ... well, there's always Linux (grin) ... and any number of other OSs we may see in the future.

Still (and I'm only speaking for myself), I can't fathom any use for a 64-bit OS ... which is where Micro$oft appears to want this anti-piracy integration to first appear. They did say they planned for a 2004 or 2005 rollout and, by that time, the 32-bit OS will be considered a dinosaur (but probably a popular dinosaur if others feel the same as me). I don't do games and probably wouldn't be too interested in virtual reality games either. Gates, I think, is making a wise choice in expanding into consumer electronics and portable computing. In the future, that's where the real money will be for "personal use" scenarios. While I can't say this will always be true, I do know that the 4 "build shops" in my local area still give people a choice of having an OEM version of W98SE. So, while Micro$oft may be championing more recent OSs, they must still be selling W98SE ... because the public is still asking for it.

TIDE-HSV

05-11-2003, 04:56 AM

Time for a little good-natured disagreement. Without going into the bloody details, I was, more or less, dragged kicking and screaming into XP from 98SE. Now that I'm settled in it, I wonder why I persisted so long with 98 and its 64K resource bottleneck. Until you give XP a really fair try, you can't really speak knowledgeably about the differences. If you try XP, you will see the difference. On the other point, most here build their own systems. There are a number of threads on this in hardwareworld, including one started by me.

OlderThanDirt

05-11-2003, 05:11 AM

I think we're talking about two different things, TIDE-HSV. I'm not knocking Windows XP, per se. What I'm saying is that Bill Gates doesn't plan to roll out his master-plan until 2004/2005 ... and, by that time, the Itanium chip and a 64-bit OS will be the norm. I just can't think of any purpose I'd put an Itanium chip to that I can't currently do on a 32-bit Pentium system. But (grin) back to the good natured disagreement:

Until you give XP a really fair try, you can't really speak knowledgeably about the differences.

I have tried it.

If you try XP, you will see the difference.

I did. It slowed my system down to a snail's-pace ... which is why I went back to Win98SE. But, if I ever do upgrade from my P3 to a P4, I may give it another go.

OlderThanDirt

05-11-2003, 05:19 AM

P. S. -- And before you ask, as I mentioned earlier, I have 256 megs RAM onboard. So, I don't think RAM was an issue in XP's slowness on my system.

MagicNakor

05-11-2003, 06:29 AM

Your processor speed likely could be, though.

:ninja:

TIDE-HSV

05-11-2003, 03:26 PM

You're right, OTD. I forgot what your specs were. That processor really can't handle all the demands of XP. Also, XP loads on so many more services at startup. This has been beaten to pieces in another thread, but I force XP to run in RAM. I've got 512. However, every time I open the machine up, I look at that empty bay - and then I go check RAM prices again...

Jibbler

05-11-2003, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@10 May 2003 - 22:03
The problem is that other companies besides Intel & AMD make CPUs. Joe Consumer might be willing to "go with the flow" and just buy what the industry sells. Other consumers who, like me, "build" rather than "buy" their systems, would take our business elsewhere. Intel/AMD are just the biggest CPU manufacturers, not the only CPU manufacturers.
Doubt it. This battle is for consumer sales, its for business sales. Cisco, Microsoft, Intel, Amd, these are the big boys of computer industry. The backbone of banking systems and most computer networks are built on their products. Joe Consumer might have a choice, but he'll never get a fair shake in this business. Consumer products are based on industry demand, and business products create the platform for consumer use. :blink:

Rat Faced

05-11-2003, 09:13 PM

Click the link in my Sig for the Latest list of TCPA signatories.

May help you decide what 'Brands' to buy in the future.....

ShockAndAwe^i^

05-11-2003, 09:35 PM

Riaa is going after the navy! :o
You guys gotta read this!
It's just fuckin' hilarious
http://207.53.167.13/fusetalk/messageview....9&threadid=1328 (http://207.53.167.13/fusetalk/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1328)

Great Stuff

Fatal Error

05-11-2003, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@11 May 2003 - 17:35
Riaa is going after the navy! :o
You guys gotta read this!
It's just fuckin' hilarious
http://207.53.167.13/fusetalk/messageview....9&threadid=1328 (http://207.53.167.13/fusetalk/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1328)

Great Stuff
Daaammn... Whats next, Mr. Bush's " Private Collection" ?? :angry: I can just see the Secret Service now.. citing "National Security" issues.. :D :D

Whoops.. never mind, I just read an article (http://www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/1560181) where Bush is pushing for a bill that would require ISP's to monitor its subscribers internet usage. Sorry George.. you just lost my vote in the next election. What ARE these people thinking? :blink: :ph34r:

OlderThanDirt

05-12-2003, 01:04 AM

Rat Faced wrote:

May help you decide what 'Brands' to buy in the future.....

A number of CPU/hardware makers from Taiwan & Korea are not on the membership list. I think I mentioned this earlier but, certainly, now might be the best time to buy (aka "build") the most state-of-the-art system you can with parts not made by TCPA member businesses. And, now might also be a good time for people to (1) familiarize themselves with open-source OSs and (2) learn to write their own programs.

Still, I'm a believer in the Karmic wheel, hehe -- that things tend to balance themselves out over time. Or, as Princess Leia once said to Darth Vader:

The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

I can see a number of ways TCPA could backfire. First, those hardware manufacturers aren't the only games in town. And, all but a fraction of the software I currently use is either freeware or shareware. I could see TCPA being the father/mother behind an explosion in freeware/shareware development. Years ago, when I owned my first computer, I got to be a pretty darned good BASIC programmer. Perhaps an old dog like me could learn a few new tricks (grin). Or, as the old Revolutionary War joke went:

Q --Why did the Brit cross the road?
A --Because somebody told him to.

Q--Why did the Colonist cross the road?
A--Because somebody told him not to. :P

BTW, notice that Cisco is not a TCPA member. But...CLICK HERE (http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/prod_042402b.html). And that was over a year ago.