A Nation Of Cowards Celebrating Illusions

[imported_The__One]

A very true and to the point text, worth a read ;)



Published on Thursday, May 8, 2003 by CommonDreams.org 
A Nation of Cowards 
by Sidney Hall, Jr.
 
For a brief moment after 9/11, we recognized some genuine heroes in our midst, those who put their lives on the line to rescue strangers and those who put their own needs in back of the needs of others in the middle of tragedy. The celebration of this heroism may have become a little gaudy, but it was sincere.

Since then we seem to have become a nation of cowards celebrating illusions.

There is a president, who, in reaction to the devastation of 9/11, does not act with forbearance, curiosity to understand the root cause, and as a world leader. Instead he lashes out at blurry targets with more force than we were met with. This is not the act of a brave man. This is the act of a coward.

There is a senator who sees his country yawing dangerously off course and, for the first time in its history abusing its power openly and shamelessly. The senator says nothing, though he knows better, because he is afraid of an emotional backlash if he engages in rational discussion. He is afraid he will lose the next election. This is the act of a coward.

There is a citizen who is unable to think. He succumbs to fear, believes every scary story he hears, buys duct tape for his doors and windows, when a bit of thinking would tell him he is in more danger from getting into his car. This is the act of a coward.

There is a journalist who knows there are young children dying in hospitals in Iraq, with their bodies horribly disfigured as the result of our country’s doings, yet he will not show pictures of these children so that people can weigh the consequences of war for themselves. He shows pictures of massively-armed Americans and reports every “coalition” news release as gospel truth. This is the act of a coward.

There is an attorney general who is so scared by events that he is willing to subvert the very essence of what we would normally be fighting for. He wraps his subversive activities in a cloud of confusion. This is the act of a coward.

There is a citizen who hangs a flag out on his house as a sign proclaiming that he cannot think, that it is enough to “support our troops” whether what they are doing is right or wrong. This is the act of a coward.

There is the soldier who fires into an oncoming vehicle carrying a family with women and children because he thinks they are coming after him. This is the act of a coward.

There is another soldier who fires into a crowd of civilians when someone throws a sandal at him. Sure he is young, scared to death by the situation he has been unfairly drawn into, but he doesn’t wait for a real reason to fire. This is the act of a coward.

Another soldier trains the barrel of his tank on a hotel full of journalists and fires. This is the act of a coward.

A soldier stands by while hospitals and museums are looted and anarchy descends on a great city. This is the act of a coward.

Many of these are scared kids put into an impossible place. We should pity them, but that does not make them the heroes.

There is a reporter who forbears to report how scared and unnerved these kids are, for fear he might undermine his president. This is the act of a coward.

A member of the United States Congress goes into his cafeteria and renames French Fires, Freedom Fries, because he he is unable to take any criticism from another country, even the country that helped pave the way for American freedom. Is this the act of a brave man? No, this is the act of a coward.

A scholar who advises the White House concludes that force and fear are the only way to end a cycle of terrorism that perpetuates itself because of force and fear. He does not even think about finding the reasons for the problem, or the solutions. This is the act of a coward.

And the president comes forth smirking and swaggering, dressing in military garb and gloating. We have seen this from the worst of world leaders before, the Stalins and Hitlers, and though our president may not rise to the same level of evil, he resembles them uncomfortably. They are the leaders that did what they did and smirked and swaggered while they did it because they were essentially cowards too.

We have, it seems, at last become a nation of cowards. Cowardice has woven itself right into the fabric of our lives. A nation of cowards—except those who aren’t, and there are many. And in the heart of every American there is a bravery waiting to emerge. If someone would come along who would call on that bravery, if another Martin Luther King came suddenly into our midst, you would see bravery flower everywhere overnight.

We are, all of us, after all, just human.

[j2k4]

I have not read such an unmitigated, misguided, uninformed, comprehensively and unrelentingly STUPID screed since Dubya was elected.

Sidney Hall, Jr. seems to think the United States is nothing more than a spindle of plump red cheeks, to be sent forever spinning by slaps administered by international passersby.

WHAT AN ASSHOLE!!!

[kAb]

First, i stopped reading when he began to disrespect our troops. if the driver does not know to stop at a checkpoint like every other car, maybe there is a reason, and this could be a threat. earlier when soldiers tried to be friendly to iraqi surrendering people, they were blown up. The ultimate precautions are necessary.

so i have a few words for you:

http://www.thestranger.com/2003-03-27/feature5-1.jpg

[echidna]

He isn't disrespecting the troops he is dismayed at the lack of fore thought given to their deployment
i tend to agree given that the 'post-conflict phase' of operation 'iraqi-freedom' looks like giveing iraq the freedom to be burned and looted while having malnutrition and no medical supplies
hope i never get to be free like that
i pity those kids sent into a fools war by cheney and rummy
bush (a) & (B) cheney and rummy, are the ones who are being called cowards
they demonstrate contempt for life through their illguided deployment of the lives of others
[i don't like the article much, the constant rephrasing is a bit twee or sumthin]

[hobbes]

It is easy to sit before your computer and critize the actions of others.
But to do so, and not offer a suggestion of what should have been done.
This is the cerebral drooling of a man without a plan.
This is the act of a coward.


Word play is easy

[junkyardking]

ignorance is bliss and will continue to be so.

[dwightfry]

I believe that the over-all message is true, but worded very poorly. When someone is fighting in a war, it is a matter of life and death. Mistakes were made by some americans, but only because the americans were protecting themselves from a possible situation that could cost them there lives. Also, supporting our troops and supporting the war are 2 completely different things, I was against the war, but if I had an american flag I would still hang it up to show support for the troops. In fact, if I had had an Iraqi flag, I would of hung that up right next to it. I didn't want anyone to die, on either side. I see this entire war as a mistake, just as I spoke of the americans who killed innocent people while attempting to protect itself, Bush started this war attempting to protect the country. The war (battle phase) has been over for a month now, there has been no WMD found, and no proof that they have had them any time soon. We have a couple of Iraqi's who claim to have destroyed them shortly before the war, but then why haven't they found the remains yet? Bush claimed this war would protect us from Al Queda....how so? More muslims hate us now then ever. This war gave them a reason to join Al Queda. The only good thing about this war was freeing Iraq, If I could go back in time, I would still be against the war, but I can't say I hate Bush for starting it, the war still had a positive outcome.........so far.

[999doomed666]

Bush claimed this war would protect us from Al Queda....how so? More muslims hate us now then ever. This war gave them a reason to join Al Queda.  from last post

Wonder about the news from riyhad...

[Hellhammer]

Someone must rid the planet of this infectious disease or Dis-Ease known as Juniour Bush,a man who doesnt learn from past mistakes of other ''Presidents''', Criminals really.Yes lets go bomb the SHIT out of a 3rd world country[WHO HAD FUCKIN NOTHIN TO DO WITH 911,more than half the Terrorists killed on that gloriuos day were from Saudi Arabia,just another puppet of the US]And they also say ''Hey we'll be heroes and rid them of there WMD,Lo and Behold where the fuck r these EVIL weapons??oh my could the americans have been wrong?No Never we are the Greatest nation on earth,yes we love our fellow brother,as long as there White Westerners who give us money Or Oil Rich countries with a Government/Leader of OUR CHOOSING.WHY in gods name do u people insist on CONROLLING EVERYTHING??Did not the actions and mistakes u made in Central/South America teach u a thing???Or in Somalia?LOL or Vietnam or Cambodia(oh we didn't go to war with the people of Cambodia,shit u drop more Bombs on Cambodia[dont forget Loas] then any other country,fact,look it up,STOP living in your Suburban Dreams of a Country that does NO WRONG!!Lies,Deciet,Arrogance,Vanity,Attitude,Conceded,Our Way OR we BOMB the shit out of Ya View of life.So Very sad having such a narrow-minded perspective and a Black&white policy.Before u guys start pointing out the Evil ways of other Countries,maybe,Just maybe take a good long look at your ''Utopia'' or Eden.I'd call it a Dystopia,,Rapists,school shootings,Racism,HUGE Drug problem,police brutallity/Corruption,the Constant Lies from the Politicians,the false promises.Overly Crowded Prison population,i could spend hours with this list of BULLSHIT.But u get the point reader,who in no doubt is an American,oh well HATE ME,spew forth your Venomous Anger,plan Vengence to come and KILL me,its what u FUCKS do best isn't it?Yes your society strives for violent Movies,T.V. shows,Games,Music so BRING IT ON YOU VILE WORMS,REPLY WITH HATE AND DISGUST AND TORRENTIAL THOUGHTS OF WAR,MURDER,AND REVENGE!!I welcome it. :lol: :lol:

[hobbes]

Rule 1: Don't post when drunk, it tends to accentuate emotional lability.

Could you please direct me to the country where politicians don't lie. Or do you just pretend to believe yours don't. C'mon, that's what they do. This is what "phonys" grow up to be.



You need to understand that people are people, everywhere. Governments are the thugs.

Our government is acting to protect the interests of the United States. The premise for the war was that WMD owned by Iraq could fall into the wrong hands. 9/11 is the take home message that says, "a stitch in time, saves nine".

So, we are doing what ANY country with our capability would do. If you don't like it, we don't care. We perceive a threat, we act to neutralize it. Your country would do the same if it could.



On the other hand, as an American citizen I hold my goverment accountable for it's actions. If Dubyah says Iraq is a threat, he needs to prove it. So far we have come up short.

So at this time the war was a bad move. We have turned the entire Arab community against us and so now things are worse not better. I have cautioned people again and again that the freedom of the Iraqi people is a PR sideshow and should not be considered when judging the "righteousness" of this war.

If we do not find WMD, these short term warm fuzzies, are going to be a long term disaster, on this we are agreed. (I have several posts in this forum which flesh this out more).



As for racism, this is a human trait, not an American trait. The racism you see in America does not come from the educated, but from the dregs of society. These losers need to find something in themselves to be proud of. Since they have nothing tangible, they cling to the delusional straw of racism, somehow claiming to be superior to another race. You see this is about self esteem, and I bet you see this replicated over and over, all around the world, among a populations underclasses.



Drug problems, crime, prison over crowding, shooting, these are all a product of FREEDOM. Freedom is great, unfortunately it requires a bit of responsibilty on the part of the owner. Unfortunately, most abuse their freedom and the above are the result. We could elimate this problem by killing all criminals, killing everyone with drugs and guns, but as a nation, at this point, we find individual freedoms to be more important. Sometimes freedom is hard to deal with when people abuse it so badly.



As for violent movies, Tv, games shows- I consider that an "add-on" from someone on a total rant. If you think these shows beget violence in balanced humans then look around you for that bottle of glue, I think the lid is off. Any society is filled with it's percentage of defectives, freedom allows our to have guns (don't get me started here).



In the end, American citizens are no different than you, except a little fatter and with better stuff. And we intend to keep it that way. As would your country, if the tables were reversed. So take the saddle off your high horse, understand essential human nature and quite whining about sour grapes.

[Hellhammer]

High Horse???Thats good but im not an American so dont even try to begin to compare me to one of your type,please.Excellent rationilization my fellow Human.Understanding and Acceptance are two things the usa needs to learn BIG time.Fortunetly(my spelling sux,so what) the tables are not turned,You guys ARE the leaders,start setting an example.
And Just because your a Democratic Country with more WMD and Nukes and ICBMs dont make u ALWAYS right or Right to do what u want when u want.But like u said ,thats reality.The US government needs to step very carefully for they are on the virge of becoming hated by everyone not just the Middle East,Asia and Africa.Come to think of it most of Europe cannot stomach u either.
Now your probably saying''shiiit,who cares what the rest of the world thinks of us" And thats exactly the problem,U just dont care,unless there is Oil,or other Valueable Resources to gain.So all u American ''people'' hace a lovely time in cowering in fear over next Terrorist attack,and good luck with all your vengeful Wars on humanity.ps i hear Iran or Syria is next,or maybe North Korea,since they do have WMD,,what someone else has Nuclear Weapons besides the good ol' US of A..OH NO!!!

[j2k4]

Hellhammer-

You are obviously a member of the 'vast majority' who hate the U.S.A.
I hope you are not operating under the misapprehension you are exceptional in this regard-a hefty percentage of those who post here share your opinion, if not your vehement solecism.

Whatever is at the root of your harangue, I suggest you stow it somewhere you won't trip over it; if you try to loiter here in a manner reflected by that which you have so far posted, the gentlemen (and ladies) who currently deign to debate in this forum (even, and especially, the ones who may be inclined to agree with you, if only in the most basic way) will, I trust, dispatch you to lesser environs.

So-you wanna play?

[hobbes]

Originally posted by Hellhammer@14 May 2003 - 03:57
High Horse???Thats good but im not an American so dont even try to  begin to compare me to one of your type,please.Excellent rationilization my fellow Human.Understanding and Acceptance are two things the usa needs to learn BIG time.Fortunetly(my spelling sux,so what) the tables are not turned,You guys ARE the leaders,start setting an example.
And Just because your a Democratic Country with more WMD and Nukes and ICBMs dont make u ALWAYS right or Right to do what u want when u want.But like u said ,thats reality.The US government needs to step very carefully for they are on the virge of becoming hated by everyone not just the Middle East,Asia and  Africa.Come to think of it most of Europe cannot stomach u either.
Now your probably saying''shiiit,who cares  what the rest of the world thinks of us" And  thats exactly the problem,U just dont care,unless there is Oil,or other Valueable Resources to gain.So all u American ''people'' hace a lovely time in cowering in fear over next Terrorist attack,and good luck with all your vengeful Wars on  humanity.ps i hear Iran or Syria is next,or maybe North Korea,since they do have WMD,,what someone else has Nuclear Weapons besides the good ol' US of A..OH NO!!!
Hell (can I call you hell?),

Do I care what the world thinks of us? Do I care how we conduct ourselves?

I've covered this before in other threads, look at the 81% approval rating thread and the links within it. Once you have read what has already been discussed, then you can add your comments. I don't find it to be a productive use of my time to rehash every point with the stragglers to this forum.

The key point is this: are you interested in discusssing a topic, processing different perspectives and learning something or do you just want to rant?

[ShockAndAwe^i^]

This is the kind of ungrateful shit that I would expect from eurotrash!
Remember he said "very true and to the point"

He said he's not american but he's probably enjoying the freedom our BLOOD and MONEY bought for him
Fuck you.....You Fuck!

[j2k4]

Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@16 May 2003 - 00:32
This is the kind of ungrateful shit that I would expect from eurotrash!
Remember he said "very true and to the point"

He said he's not american but he's probably enjoying the freedom our BLOOD and MONEY bought for him
Fuck you.....You Fuck!
Shock-

Think more in terms of 'rapier-like'; less in terms of 'bludgeoning'-- you must learn to husband your ordnance.

[Rat Faced]

So, one second im a brave and couragouse Brit and the next im EuroTrash.....

Make up your mind ShockAndAwe, I dont know whether to flame you or kiss you. <_<




ShockAndAwe and Hellhammer:


I enjoy these debates, but as j2k4 has hinted, a debate is polite arguement and has the potential of changing opinion or at least gaining the respect of your opinion from people that disagree with you.

The difference is the &#39;rapier&#39; as j2k4 has put it is welcome here.

The Club isnt however.

[echidna]

Originally posted by Hellhammer 14 May 2003 - 09:30
2. There will be no excessive use of profanity. Please keep all foul language to a minimum.

3. There will be no racial, ethnic, or gender based insults or any other discriminatory comments or content.
see here (http://www.klboard.ath.cx/bb/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=15237&s=) if you haven&#39;t

:ph34r: :: :ph34r: :: the cause doesn&#39;t need loud fools :: :ph34r: :: :ph34r: :: :lol:
:ph34r: :: :ph34r: :: only fools would wish for terrorism :: :ph34r: :: :ph34r: :: :lol:
if you articulated your thoughts maybe i might agree with some of them, who knows

[clocker]

Hammer, perhaps a bit more
http://artchive.floridaimaging.com/r/rodin/thinker.jpg
and a bit less
http://www.photostogo.com/store/GetThumb.asp/ImageNum=286047&VOLID=418&gc=gc1&ss=1/Atomic%20Bomb-286047.jpg

would gain you more converts to what is obviously a passionately held position...

[echidna]

http://www.malamente.com/massimo/link/foto/black%20bloc-tamburi.jpg
http://images.indymedia.org/imc/hamilton/feb4-ocf4.jpg
http://www.kipple.it/zgattaccob.jpghttp://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/starbuckscops1.jpg
:ph34r: a few better ideas for venting anger :ph34r: :lol:

[clocker]

Yeah, we should all probably get outdoors more...

[j2k4]

Pictures, chosen wisely, can make the words go down more easily.

Honest to God, I&#39;m becoming such a peaceful S.O.B. I have to keep looking at my left hand to make sure some dastardly individual hasn&#39;t handed me a bouquet. :huh:

I&#39;m in need of a rant and have no impetus or inspiration&#33;&#33; :angry:

[ShockAndAwe^i^]

I&#39;m shocked&#33;&#33;And Awe&#39;d&#33;&#33;
I think there&#39;s hope for echidna yet.
I think thats a close to defending the US he will ever come.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@20 May 2003 - 01:57
I&#39;m shocked&#33;&#33;And Awe&#39;d&#33;&#33;
I think there&#39;s hope for echidna yet.
I think thats a close to defending the US he will ever come.
Echidna means well, but, like many others, is not capable of imagining him/herself (just being PC here, Echidna) in our shoes-your idea of a stateside invite for a thorough brainwashing and reconstruction is more and more intriguing...... :ph34r:

I bet he/she (Echidna-would you help me out here?) could have lots of fun on the streets of San Francisco with a good supply of duct tape, huh?

Yup-there&#39;s really nothing like being an American (in the United States of...). ;)

[clocker]

Originally posted by j2k4@20 May 2003 - 07:25

Yup-there&#39;s really nothing like being an American (in the United States of...). ;)
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/t/tiziano/mytholo1/bachanal.jpg

J2,
You realize, I hope, that if they find out what life is really like here we&#39;ll be OVERRUN&#33;

[j2k4]

Look to the south, my friend-&#39;tis already hap&#39;nin&#33; ;)

[j2k4]

Why does my screen width keep waxing and waning? :huh:


I HATE UNNECESSARY SCROLLING&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :angry: :angry: :angry:

[clocker]

Originally posted by j2k4@20 May 2003 - 07:51
Look to the south, my friend-&#39;tis already hap&#39;nin&#33; ;)
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~abrown/Photos/Tijuana-Jun2000/img/cd390890_024_21A.jpg

We&#39;re doomed...

[MagicNakor]

Indeed, Tripod is a fearsome foe.

:ninja:

[j2k4]

Originally posted by MagicNakor@20 May 2003 - 20:05
Indeed, Tripod is a fearsome foe.

:ninja:
Clocker-we can&#39;t afford such sloppy work; remember, we tenured you because we thought you were up to standard-should we reconsider? <_<

[sArA]

This will probably be the last time I respond to this particular topic...as it is working itself into ever decreasing circles however,

I am a Brit and have been living in the US for almost a year. I will however be returning to the UK in just a few weeks (see you round yours for a cuppa, Bass)

I have lived with Americans...you are (on the whole) the same as &#39;us&#39; with the same concerns, hopes, dreams, fears......

Even a democracy is never truly democratic, plurality is an illusion to keep us all from despair.

We who speak of forebearance have no power...we cannot control the media or our governments...only through discourse can our true feelings be articulated...but we can change nothing and cannot be blamed as individuals for the evil that governments do.

[myfiles3000]

Originally posted by sara5564@21 May 2003 - 05:19
Even a democracy is never truly democratic, plurality is an illusion to keep us all from despair.

We who speak of forebearance have no power...we cannot control the media or our governments...only through discourse can our true feelings be articulated...but we can change nothing and cannot be blamed as individuals for the evil that governments do.
like, gag me with a spoon

[clocker]

Originally posted by MagicNakor@20 May 2003 - 19:05
Indeed, Tripod is a fearsome foe.

:ninja:
Elucidate, please.

I&#39;m missing something here.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by clocker+20 May 2003 - 09:09--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 20 May 2003 - 09:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--j2k4@20 May 2003 - 07:51
Look to the south, my friend-&#39;tis already hap&#39;nin&#33; ;)
http://members.tripod.com/buscat/sd203.jpg

We&#39;re doomed... [/b][/quote]
This post (does it show on your PC?) is of the Tripod logo; MN was, I think, being &#39;mystical&#39;. ;)

[j2k4]

Originally posted by myfiles3000+20 May 2003 - 23:55--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (myfiles3000 @ 20 May 2003 - 23:55)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--sara5564@21 May 2003 - 05:19
Even a democracy is never truly democratic, plurality is an illusion to keep us all from despair.

We who speak of forebearance have no power...we cannot control the media or our governments...only through discourse can our true feelings be articulated...but we can change nothing and cannot be blamed as individuals for the evil that governments do.
like, gag me with a spoon [/b][/quote]
Careful myfiles-

We&#39;re recruiting Sara as our resident etherealist, and trying to accomplish this at a reasonable cost; talent like hers is, well...... ethereal. ;)

[clocker]

Originally posted by j2k4@21 May 2003 - 07:04

This post (does it show on your PC?) is of the Tripod logo; MN was, I think, being &#39;mystical&#39;. ;)
I&#39;m mystified&#33;
On my screen ( and in my head ) this is a picture of the Tijuana border crossing&#33;
You guys are seeing something else?
Hmmm...

[Rat Faced]

I see an advertisement for www.tripod.com, with its logo.....

[clocker]

That was just weird...

My point (such as it was) should be clearer now.

[melgl]

Originally posted by Hellhammer@14 May 2003 - 03:57
High Horse???Thats good but im not an American so dont even try to begin to compare me to one of your type,please.Excellent rationilization my fellow Human.Understanding and Acceptance are two things the usa needs to learn BIG time.Fortunetly(my spelling sux,so what) the tables are not turned,You guys ARE the leaders,start setting an example.
And Just because your a Democratic Country with more WMD and Nukes and ICBMs dont make u ALWAYS right or Right to do what u want when u want.But like u said ,thats reality.The US government needs to step very carefully for they are on the virge of becoming hated by everyone not just the Middle East,Asia and Africa.Come to think of it most of Europe cannot stomach u either.
Now your probably saying&#39;&#39;shiiit,who cares what the rest of the world thinks of us" And thats exactly the problem,U just dont care,unless there is Oil,or other Valueable Resources to gain.So all u American &#39;&#39;people&#39;&#39; hace a lovely time in cowering in fear over next Terrorist attack,and good luck with all your vengeful Wars on humanity.ps i hear Iran or Syria is next,or maybe North Korea,since they do have WMD,,what someone else has Nuclear Weapons besides the good ol&#39; US of A..OH NO&#33;&#33;&#33;
hell..you got my vote ;)

[clocker]

Originally posted by melgl@28 May 2003 - 19:51

hell..you got my vote ;)
If he had his way you wouldn&#39;t have a vote to give...

[melgl]

i think Britain is quite capable of handling itself...its been stuck in the middle of facism,nazism communism and all the shit in the world and fought and fought and caused some shit itself.....b4 ANYONE mentions WW2 the US would have faced a wall of nazis/commies the works had it not popped in at the end...respect to the us soldiers who died but at the end of the day no
country can survive solely on its own...my real problem with the US is its dangerous ignorance of the world around it..after 9/11 the whole world shared its sorrow an minutes silence...hell would freeze b4 the US ever showed such concern for anybody else...i dont hate the US i detest its self importance above all others and its mindless arrogance with regards to foreign policy The Taliban and Hussein were both products of the West&#39;s needs to rearrange the world to suit itself without regards to the consequences...it is hardly in a position to pat itself on the back for removing what it put there in the first place.The Uk is no saint either at the end of the day i just wish like everyone else for some peace...not more f***Ing wars and religious fanatics who think &#39;God is on my side&#39;

[clocker]

Very well thn,melql-

If you wouldn&#39;t mind descending from your utopian treehouse for a minute...
Can you name one country who&#39;s foriegn policy/ world presence over the past 50 years you would hold up as a sterling example for the US to emulate? :huh:

[melgl]

i said the WEST...i don&#39;t live in a utopia-like state...i want a peaceful world...that it wont happen doesn&#39;t mean i have to chant war war war...and you cant claim a victory if what you have defeated was your own man..the US armed Saddam and the CIA supposedly trained him did they consult the people for who they want?. .. if they picked him then screw em but if they didnt then why would they entrust someone with so much power?...ok so we are surrounded by darkaged fucked up nations...personally i think we should just let them get on with it( cue onslaught)...they hate us anyway...give them time and the shit will start again. What happened on 9/11 was appaling but i cant help but think we should close the doors and force them to sort it the fuck out...the West wasn&#39;t born a democracy and in some places still isnt...look at the downfall(mostly) of communism..without the people overthrowing it, with whatever shit goes on by governments. its a waste of time...how long do you think it will be b4 that wretched fucking lot over in the middle east will go straight back to the first one that offers them
&#39;freedom&#39; from the US/Uk? Africa is in a pitiful state...we dont intervene there...no oil perhaps but then when was the last time you heard of a terrorist act by an African terrorist group in our part of the world...i make no secret..9/11 scared the crap out of me..i don&#39;t want no boats rocked..if that makes me a fool then so be it...peace and shut the fucking doors&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[UserNumber3141]

To the one who posted the first message. I challenge you to serve, but one year, in Iraq as a soldier. Perhaps your opinion, of the mistakes a soldier may make, will change.

[Barbarossa]

Bit of a random bump there, but welcome :wacko:

[Biggles]

Bit of a random bump there, but welcome :wacko:

FFS! I vaguely remember this from way back but as a first post bump that is one hell of an archaelogical dig. :unsure:

[saqib]

bit of controversial throughout the start

[deuce6000]

I have not read such an unmitigated, misguided, uninformed, comprehensively and unrelentingly STUPID screed since Dubya was elected.

Sidney Hall, Jr. seems to think the United States is nothing more than a spindle of plump red cheeks, to be sent forever spinning by slaps administered by international passersby.

WHAT AN ASSHOLE!!!

I couldn't of said it any better and i won't even try.Great response!

[Rat Faced]

OK, i'll go for the hate mail :)

We're nations of Cowards AND Hero's.

Anyone that screams for war and isn't willing to stand up and fight by joining up and/or encouraging their own loved ones to do this if they can't, is a Coward (and a hypocrit)... that covers most of the "Hawks" in charge of the US and UK, amongst others.

Those that DON'T believe in it, but are unwilling to be heard or make a noise, are Cowards.

Those that go, and believe in what they are doing are Hero's.

Those that DON'T believe in it; and shout out about how wrong it is, despite being shit on from a great hight for standing up for what they believe in because it goes against the majority and/or the official stance, is also a Hero.


I think the majority are therefore neither... they just dont give a fuck.