*official Matrix Chat* Reloaded & Revolution Chat

[Schmiggy_JK23]

OMG! This is was hella solid... and talk about an ending, goodness.... anyhow, a few rules on this thread.

a) no requests for links, hashes or files, this is to only talk storyline, and the movie

B) be nice to everyone!

c) there are spoilers, *WARNING* stay out if you dont want to hear about them....







Okay, now heres my thoughts.

1. The ending first and foremost. Who was that guy? Across the way from neo? "The only survivor of the attack on the outposts lines of zion"? Well, I will tell you what I think... Remember when smith, ran into the two guys in the matrix, seemingly for no reason, and first replicated himself... what did he do? Took the hard line out... to the REAL world... what did that guy have... a goatee... what did the guy on the table have... a goatee... both brunettes also... So, that seemingly insignificant phone call, was disaster... that was smith, or his human counterpart. THis is of course brings a ton of questions, how could smith survive outside of the matrix, being only a program/virus, etc... well maybe, remember what morpheus told neo, you body believes what your brain feels/does in the matrix... maybe smith was able to override that guys brainwaves, etc... putting his persona in taht human body... hmmmmm opinions? Also remember, smith says parts of their code swwapped and copied on to each other....

2. How the hell did neo sense the machines, and seemingly stop them at the end, in the "real world"? Is that real world they are apparently in at that time, maybe just another part of the matrix... has neo found some way, via the seemingly destruction of smith, and the change of code, to somehow control/interfere with the machines in the real world? Also... in a related note... how does neo sense the agents comming at the beggining? Also suggested that maybe he is a program, of sorts... the anomaly in the matrix... much like pi is in mathematics...

3. Is all of zion dead, or whats the deal? did they say that only that one body one the ship, survived? obviously some people survive, people somewhere, cuz in the revolutions trailer, we see people operating mechs, etc... and a shot of zion if i am not mistaken... and them asking, "are we too late"... seemingly refering to zion...

4. What is smiths ultimate goal? to conquer the matrix, take it all over? if so, why aid in the destruction of zion. The seeming traitor who let the emp off early, im assuming was him, hence he was the only survivor somehow, and how did that body, smith or not, survive... my theory, because that body registered as dead within the matrix, when he took it over... hence the machines, wouldnt account for his death, when smith seemingly overwrites his conscious...

5. Now when that building blew up, wasnt the matrix as it was, seemingly destroyed? wasnt that the whole network, hardware which ran it, etc? So how does it still exist, does it? obviously it does, cuz we see smith and neo fight in it, in the revolutions trailer... explanations?



well, tahts my thoughts for now, lets get some comments up in here! debate, add to, and tell me what u cats think.

*ps... to the mods, and everyone bitching about more reloaded threads... this has nothing to do with any of the others... as it is by no means related to files, torrents, or where to get it, or any of that other bullshit we have had to put up with for two months... so please leave this alone...we deserve the right to have a real chat about the movies, minus all the other bullshit*

[Jibbler]

Wow, I can't even put into words everything I'm thinking. I'm going to see it again this weekend, so that I can follow the details more closely. I'll address the only question I feel I'm capable of answering at this hour, and that is about Neo, and the machines.

The architect left many things to be pondered, and Neo's choice was to save the girl, and not humanity. Could this be because Neo is not a human, but in fact a machine? Possibly some sort of hybrid?

Oh yeah, and the mechs look awesome in the trailer for Revolutions. Too bad we had to sit thru 15 minutes of credits for a 45 second trailer.

I also think there is more to the keyman than meets the eye. Can't wait to see it again, so I can get my fix. B)

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Part man, part machine... interesting... maybe, maybe only since the sorta merger with him and smith, when they swapped code?

A few more things ive picked up from the trailer...
oracles body guard, or what ever he was, the asian guy, (was originaly set to be played by jet li btw), is still alive,

The long haired crazy guy... also appears in the revolutions trailer... the one who said something about 12, or was it 24 hours... then end of zion, zion falling or something... what is his role...

btw... i have heard a rumor, which prolly is total bs... so take no stock in it... but that trinity may be agent... what, how, etc... no clue, so take no stock in it, as its seemingly just that, a rumor...

[be_man31]

ahh shit there was a trailer after the credits?!! :angry: I can't sit that long through the credits. Oh man when the architect was babbling on, I was like... WTF is this guy babbling about? :blink: and schmiggy your right on the money, that was smith in that guys body and it was the guy that sabbotaged the EMP weapon. and your question is good too, how did smith survive out of the matrix? but even a better question you should ask is why did smith cut his hand and then proceed to shake neos hand? to infect him perhaps? and last but not least, why did the machines continue to dig even after destroying "ZION"? hmmm intresting. and another good question is...how did neo control those squigglies at the end? maybe this is a box inside of a box inside of a box sorta thing with the matrix. but one things for certain! I cant wait to see revelations!!! :D :D

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by be_man31@15 May 2003 - 01:13
but even a better question you should ask is why did smith cut his hand and then proceed to shake neos hand? to infect him perhaps?
OMG!

was that guy, who shook his hand... the same guy smith infected? holy shit... i gotta finish the download NOW! i didnt even think of that, that the guy with the knife, was the same one smith infected...... but it seemingly makes so much more sense, cuz if that wasnt that "body", the body from the infection, and phone call, and the body at the end... what else does it fit into, and the answer is really nothing... so that makes perfect sense....

my first thoughts were that guy was gonna try to stab him, but that makes more sense now that u mention it... but infect him with what... wouldnt his virus be limited to the matrix? maybe neo is part machine... and he knew that neo would somehow replicate the blood/virus, in the real world... hence his control over the machines at the end, because he is part machine... i dunno...

and the architect... i want to listen to that speech many more times... it was dull at times, but i feel there was some major significance to it all, taht maybe i didnt pick up on the first time....

wow, that has me thinking even more now, damn movie!

[netblade83]

and what was with that whole kiss neo had with that one woman...(cant remember her name offhand..).. it seemed like there was more to it than meets the eye, but i cant put a finger on it...

one of the biggest things i thought was.. ok, ive watched the 94 Meg trailer, and almost all of it was from the first half hour!

[Schmiggy_JK23]

another question: When The Oracle leaves, Smith and The Smiths show up in the same space just seconds after her exit. Why? Is fighting The Smiths a part of what Neo needs to do to get to the next part of his journey? Seraph seems to almost clear The Oracle out of the space in anticipation of Smith’s arrival. Yet, Smith is no longer an agent and she should have seen him coming before Seraph, no? So whats this mean for the oracle, is she real, good bad, i dunno..

Merovingian (the guy from the resturant, who kept the key maker)introduces the idea of cause and effect as the driving force of society, machine and human, above and beyond the “illusion” of control. But even as a program, The Merovingian still says that we are all animals. Curious. Another indicator that The Merovingian was once The One is that he knows the role of The Keymaster, who he keeps locked up in a room without a keyed door. Interesting concepts here...

a thread at aint it cool news, talking about similiar ideas... (http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/tb_display.cgi?id=15207#626271), i have taken a few of my questions from there...

ya, really, i did enjoy the fact that most of trailer is from early in the flick

and about the kiss... story on Persephone, (her name, not sure spelling), is that supposedly with a kiss, or soemthing, she can read all your thoughts, yours fears, etc, and tell you things, if she choses, that you may not want to hear, this comming from a interview with bellaucci, explaining her character...

BTW... this was taken from harrys review at aint it cool news... apparently we misunderstood something, and zion didnt fall.... hafta watch it again i guess, to catch it fully

BTW – I want to correct something from my first review. ZION isn’t destroyed in MATRIX RELOADED. That was a point of confusion for me, sorry if this caused you any problems, admittedly I guess my mind was still on the event that had immediately preceded that conversation.

[XSpikeX]

They only lost the first counter attack at their main lines. The didn't lose the city yet.

[Krisman]

I'm not going to read all these other posts cause I just got back from Reloaded and am a little tired. Still going to watch whats left of adult swim on cartoon network though.

Anyway I&#39;d just like to bitch about the employees at the movies 8 where I live. The damned cleaning lady kept turning on the lights during the credits. <_< Ended up having to watch the trailer in the light instead of dark.

Also that trailer saved me from a speeding ticket. When heading home I saw someone else who had been there and left right when the movie ended pulled over on the side of the road by a cop. Thankyou trailer. :P

[Schmiggy_JK23]

so wake ur ass up, and get back in here when u can, lol... i wanna figure some of this shit out...

[Schmiggy_JK23]

okay, going to see it again, bbl. Hopefully I will have even more to discuss when i get back&#33;

[sk8punk151]

Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@15 May 2003 - 18:52
okay, going to see it again, bbl. Hopefully I will have even more to discuss when i get back&#33;
Where do you live? How can you just go?&#33; Around here you have to reserve your tix a day in advance if your lucky.. :huh:

[Schmiggy_JK23]

where i live, we are over saturated with theater screens. We probably like, lets see, 6, 24, 20, 18, 12, about 80 screens, within 35 mins around me, very handy....

[Stonecoldfreak1]

cant w8 to see how much money this movie ranks in

[XSpikeX]

My town is so small you can just go see it. Except for probably tonight since it&#39;s just opening and last night when I saw it it was packed. But those are special occasions. Come friday/saturday you can probably just go and see it. Anyways, I found out why Jet Li didn&#39;t play the Oracles bodyguard. From what I hear they were willing to pay him 3 Million for the couple minute parts but he wanted 18 million. Meh, movie stars nowadays ;)

[Wolfmight]

The matrix is comming out tommarow Friday 16 2003, so did yall like downloadz it?

n e full apect screener copies?

[XSpikeX]

It&#39;s out everywhere around here today (the 15th). I saw an advanced screening yesterday....

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by Wolfmight@15 May 2003 - 17:09
The matrix is comming out tommarow Friday 16 2003, so did yall like downloadz it?

n e full apect screener copies?
wolf, didnt read my first post, keep file questions out this... theres tons of other threads for that shit... this is ment for movie chat, and speculation, plot points, etc...

so watch it, and come back in and lets talk theories...

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@15 May 2003 - 16:55
where i live, we are over saturated with theater screens. We probably like, lets see, 6, 24, 20, 18, 12, about 80 screens, within 35 mins around me, very handy....
I have this problem too. Lots of theaters near me.

So we were sitting at the Matrix movie last night, an hour before it started. The Regal Entertainment guys came into the theater to try to get us to donate a &#036;1 for some stupid charity. Didn&#39;t take long before the theater was chanting "bring back the Jimmy Fund&#33;" It was out of control last night. People were dressed up in black, it seemed like Halloween in there. B)

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Comeon Jibby&#33; Lets discuss this shit, give your opinions, i saw it again... and, hell, way too much to comprehend still, what u think of those thoughts, etc.

[4play]

The action scenes in this film were fantastic even with the shity copy.

But my god did they go on about technical shit for too long.

casueality and effects and lip stick on his bell end i just got lost.

I tuned out when the oracle started speaking i could not understand what she was going on about.

Still very interesting twist with the architect. That had me guessing was he a machine or human. was neo and most important was the oracle since he said she worked out the problem of human&#39;s not being perfect. how would a machine do this since all machines are based on logic.

And agent smith getting out of the matrix was a good twist. somehow he is controlling that goatee guy but to what ends.

cant wait for revolutions is it out the same time as the return of the king?

[XSpikeX]

Originally posted by 4play@16 May 2003 - 00:40
The action scenes in this film were fantastic even with the shity copy.

But my god did they go on about technical shit for too long.

casueality and effects and lip stick on his bell end i just got lost.

I tuned out when the oracle started speaking i could not understand what she was going on about.

Still very interesting twist with the architect. That had me guessing was he a machine or human. was neo and most important was the oracle since he said she worked out the problem of human&#39;s not being perfect. how would a machine do this since all machines are based on logic.

And agent smith getting out of the matrix was a good twist. somehow he is controlling that goatee guy but to what ends.

cant wait for revolutions is it out the same time as the return of the king?
It&#39;s a lot more enjoyable if you can figure out the technicle stuff B) Once you watch it a couple more times you&#39;ll probably get it.

[FlamingYob]

Well, I just finished watching it, it&#39;s now 2am and I&#39;m left scratching my head.

Overall I think it was an improvement on the first, the action scenes were off the hook, the fight scenes were just stunning, my favourites scenes was the car chase and the bit where Neo fucks about 200 Smiths after he speaks to the Oracle.

I was also thinking to myself, “How the fuck did Neo do that in the real world?” it seemed very strange to me.

I’m glad I watched it, even though the quality wasn’t amazing, it was still good, and it beats waiting till the 23rd to see it, but I will for sure be there on the 23rd to see it on the big screen.

Well, I’m tired and have a headache so I’m going to shut up now, but before I hit reply I must say I thought the ending was rather disappointing, yeah, it leaves you wanting more but I really don’t want to have to wait for ages to find out what happens.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by 4play@15 May 2003 - 19:40
cant wait for revolutions is it out the same time as the return of the king?
Nope... matrix comes out the 4th of november i think, the first week for sure... and ROTK comes out late november... like the rest of the triliogy has.

[4play]

this film really is gonna have a geeky following. I am doing a degree course in computing and i still get lost.

Im gonna watch it a few times more and see if i can figure it all out.

another thing that is bugging me is why the hell they needed to make some woman cum in her pants after eating chocolate should i have given my girlfriend more chocolate or what.

That guy in the restaurant had to be an older "the one". his wife? commented about how neo reminded her of him. and thinking that he has some skill would imply he also has these skills.

gonna watch it again when im sober and rested see if i can figure it out.

[XSpikeX]

I&#39;m a geek so I got it pretty much first time ;o)
And he&#39;s no an older "the one", he&#39;s a program. Not real. So are his minions which include vampires and british ghosts&#33;

[4play]

I&#39;m a geek so I got it pretty much first time ;o)
And he&#39;s no an older "the one", he&#39;s a program. Not real. So are his minions which include vampires and british ghosts&#33;

so he could be the one as well since there is speculation over neo being part human part machine.
i do not really agree with this one since the oracle set it all up to get rid of abnormalities in the matrix which would mean he has to human.

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@15 May 2003 - 01:24
2. How the hell did neo sense the machines, and seemingly stop them at the end, in the "real world"? Is that real world they are apparently in at that time, maybe just another part of the matrix... has neo found some way, via the seemingly destruction of smith, and the change of code, to somehow control/interfere with the machines in the real world? Also... in a related note... how does neo sense the agents comming at the beggining? Also suggested that maybe he is a program, of sorts... the anomaly in the matrix... much like pi is in mathematics...
I&#39;m starting to think Neo is some sort of half breed, maybe part machine. I think the Matrix is evolving and its getting smarter. The Matrix is based on AI, and we learned that 6 times, the matrix has been opened. There has been some discussion lately about the PI theory, 3.14. Damn I wish I could remember the website where they were talking about this. There was a few different theorys on this set of numbers, and how they might relate to the film.

I&#39;ll keep looking, and post when I find it. B)

[FlamingYob]

It&#39;s 3am and I&#39;m still up, my PC upgrades should be here about 10am so I&#39;ll just wait up, anyway..

I was thinking about those ghost guys, couldn&#39;t Neo do that? And do you think we&#39;ll see him doing it in the next movie?

[XSpikeX]

Originally posted by FlamingYob@16 May 2003 - 02:08
It&#39;s 3am and I&#39;m still up, my PC upgrades should be here about 10am so I&#39;ll just wait up, anyway..

I was thinking about those ghost guys, couldn&#39;t Neo do that? And do you think we&#39;ll see him doing it in the next movie?
Neo can&#39;t go through walls, no. He can bend most rules but he&#39;s "only human".

[neevakee]

Well i just saw it and all i have to say is damn. I think that it was awsome i could have lived without the first 30 minutes but that was me. I think neo is as they so put it an annomiley, but i think when the archeticets said he was diffrent becaused he loves trinity. They proably intend to show they love can strech any bounds and anything is possible if you love someone. This plot seems losely based around starwars. That tough of finding who you are and facing the difficulties that come with the powers. Anyway... the animatrix really did help while watching the film. Alos now i see why the movies are being released less then 6 months apart.

[FlamingYob]

That seems a little stupid to me, he can bend a huge rule like gravity but he can&#39;t go threw walls. O well, he&#39;s still cool, him and Morpheus seemed to get a "push"(wrestling term) they both came off alot "harder" then in the first one.

[XSpikeX]

He doesn&#39;t levitate. You don&#39;t seem him just sitting there in midair. When he flies he&#39;s pushing the limits. And if they let Neo go through walls I would just say that its going crap. Neo is powerful and I love the movies so far, but give him a little more and you got yourself a boring god.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by XSpikeX@15 May 2003 - 20:16
I&#39;m a geek so I got it pretty much first time ;o)
And he&#39;s no an older "the one", he&#39;s a program. Not real. So are his minions which include vampires and british ghosts&#33;
There are alot of rumors, that merovidian, or what ever his name was... the guy from the restaraunt, that he was a previous version of the one... listen to the talk/dialouge closely, it really seems a possibility...

and I am leaning toward neo being sort of hybrid... part machine/part human... the symbol of the symbiosis the chairman guy talked about... and that is how he can end the war... by bringing harmoney between the two?

[sred2003]

finally saw the movie tonight. _AWESOME_
these theories all seem to be possibilities. agent smith did
cut himself and then shake neos hand but how would that have infected him?
neo wasn&#39;t bleeding there. BUT he did cut his hand in the same place when
he blocked that ax later in the movie. maybe allowing the virus to infect him if it could have survived
that long.

and I am leaning toward neo being sort of hybrid... part machine/part human... the symbol of the symbiosis the chairman guy talked about... and that is how he can end the war... by bringing Harmony between the two?

this makes sense because if you remember what neo said at the end of the first
matrix it seems he is telling the whoever is on the phone that he will wake up
the world and tell them what the matrix is. he doesn&#39;t say he will destroy all
the machines, but that they have a choice what to do when he is done


Neo, The One: I know you&#39;re out there. I can feel you now. I know that you&#39;re afraid. You&#39;re afraid of us. You&#39;re afraid of change. I don&#39;t know the future. I didn&#39;t come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it&#39;s going to begin. I&#39;m going to hang up this phone and then I&#39;m going to show these people what you don&#39;t want them to see. I&#39;m going to show them a world without you, a world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries, a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.

[opivy]

I just saw the movie and I loved it but I am confused as hell now. As someone else said it seemed like star wars kinda like when they ran out of the ship i was half expecting them to pull out a litesabre or something but anyways on the trailor when neo is fighting the agent morpheus sais he is fighting for us? Who is fighting for us? He wouldnt say that about neo because that is rather obvious or did i just miss something its really late.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Opivy, i think the "he is fighting for us" thing, is supposed to install finnallity... like, this is it... the end, the last battle... if he cant beat him... maybe smith is able to replicate everyone in the matrix, take it over, something... and that if neo doesnt beat him, its done... so morpheus is saying... hes fighting for our lives, in essence.

sred: Ya, i didnt think of that, the axe blade... and neo bleeding... hand too, just like smith, a connection?

[vash444]

Originally posted by sred2003@16 May 2003 - 06:52
these theories all seem to be possibilities. agent smith did
cut himself and then shake neos hand but how would that have infected him?
neo wasn&#39;t bleeding there. BUT he did cut his hand in the same place when
he blocked that ax later in the movie. maybe allowing the virus to infect him if it could have survived
that long.

I think that when Smith cut his hand, the blood would act like that silvery goo stuff that turns people in Smiths, so that if he shook hands with Neo, Neo would become another Smith.

Also, I think Neo is really "The One", since he used some of his powers to stop the Sentinels in the real world.


Still very interesting twist with the architect. That had me guessing was he a machine or human. was neo and most important was the oracle since he said she worked out the problem of human&#39;s not being perfect. how would a machine do this since all machines are based on logic.

I believe that the Architect is a machine, because he said something about the Matrix being a failure because it was created by a perfect mind, and not a lesser one like a humans.


5. Now when that building blew up, wasnt the matrix as it was, seemingly destroyed? wasnt that the whole network, hardware which ran it, etc? So how does it still exist, does it? obviously it does, cuz we see smith and neo fight in it, in the revolutions trailer... explanations?

Alright, I think that the white door that led to the Architect wasn&#39;t connected to the building, it was like the door Seraph led Neo through to the Oracle right? So, as it is not connected to the building, it isn&#39;t in the Matrix so it wasn&#39;t destroyed.

[Razz]

Also, I think Neo is really "The One", since he used some of his powers to stop the Sentinels in the real world.

THE REAL WORLD being the obvious statement what if the world that neo thought was the real world was actually still the matrix e.g. a matrix within a matrix well it would be an interersting twist,

wot u guys reckon???

after all the architect did say that the matrix only worked if ppl (even if only subconciously) had a choice so to make it work they could simply stick a matrix within a matrix therefore ppl would have a choice and they would have no loss of "crops" so i reckon that if Neo figures this out he may be able to wake himself up from the second matrix..... just an idea really

also he could have controlled the sentinels because he has had access to the mainframe and therefore a part of himself may have imprinted on it remember he is the first one not to have gone thru that door :)

[kagey]

ok the guy in the restaurant isn&#39;t another &#39;one&#39; since he said &#39;i have survived 5 other neo&#39;s, and ill survive you&#39; to neo.

when neo was talking to the old council guy the old guy hinted that all the machines are connected in a way. this was forshadowing neos powers in the realworld. so i thought that was pretty cool.

the dude in the real world that had the blood on his hand cut his hand with the knife to get blood on the knife so when he stabbed neo the blood would go into him, i dont think the handshake is significant at all.

my friend and i were discussing that perhaps some of the people on the concil are past &#39;ones&#39; since they wanted neo (and seemed to know that it was right) to be the savior and go into the mainframe. its a possiblity.

[kagey]

oh yeah and that gay ass rave shat and sex scene at the start was a potential movie ruiner, but the storyline a the end saved it. i mean it just turned into this grotuitous rave and they kept showing it for way way too long, same with the sex scene, its ok that they had sex, but they just stretched it out way too long. plus why were they so happy to have sex in zion, they could of did it everyday on the ship....

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by kagey@16 May 2003 - 10:12
ok the guy in the restaurant isn&#39;t another &#39;one&#39; since he said &#39;i have survived 5 other neo&#39;s, and ill survive you&#39; to neo.

I dont think thats for certain... why would he come out and say that? That would make no sense... he may be cocky, but it would be irrelevant for him to say that... he hinted enough, and that was the point... im not saying he is... but i dont think thats a good enough reason to rule him out.

as far as the rave scene... I dont know about you guys, but that is not a rave... if you have been to a rave, you would know this... so they had a big party, and celebration, and danced... i didnt see any frickin glow sticks, drugs, djs, crazy outfits, etc... it wasnt a rave, it was a celebration of life, and i think people take it out of context. It was to show you, even in their hour of desperation... with seemingly no bright spot... save for neo.. these people were so happy with life, and their freedom, they were going to celebrate it, instead of mourn their future... maybe it went on a bit long... but i think it was integral to show the love of the people for zion, and where they stand, and their relationship with their fellow people who have been freed. Otherwise... say zion is lost at the end of the movie, or in the next... you might think, wtf, who cares... wow... so they dont have a place to be... but that scene helps to generate more care for zion, and the people, etc...

as far as the sex... maybe they cant do it everyday on the ship... maybe theirs some rule, etc... tell me this... your out with your girl friend on a road trip, away from home, and u stay say in your van the whole trip, ya u can have sex, great... but how much better is it going to be, when you back at your home, safe secure, more room, better conditions, not our traveling around, etc... much nicer isnt it?

if i had a choice... sex in my car her car, which is fun and dandy at times, or sex at home, in one our beds... its a no brainer... and the point of dragging it out... once again, to help show how closse they are, and give more reason for neos choice at the end of the film

[sred2003]

well there is some sort of connection between agent smith and neo
that is a fact. smith even says some things about it when they first meet
in reloaded. when neo dove/hacked into smiths body and destroyed him
some type of merging or change to BOTH of there codes was made.
which seems to have something to do with neos new powers in reloaded.
one of which is he can sense when the machines are near. he didn&#39;t have
that ability in the first movie. this will obviously be explained in revolutions
and we have to wait 6 months for that. better than waiting 4 years ;)

[thegroggman]

My 2 cents. I think that the &#39;real world&#39; included Zion, is just another Matrix that the architect designed to control that .1% of the population who are anomalies. Its a failsafe, thats why Neo can control the machines in that world too. Remember when Neo says that something is different and how he can sense the machines maybe that was hime realizing that they were inside another Matrix. And quite possibly what they saw as him falling into a comma was actually him waking up once again. It would also explain how Agent Smith being a virus could exist in the Zion world. Then again who knows. Just a thought though. B)

Edit: Whoops, didnt notice that Razz had just said the same thing. Sorry bout that. :unsure:

[ImpactPlayer]

saw the movie last night and thought it was totally amazing.

i have a few questions though and was wondering if you guys could help clear this up.

has zion been destroyed in the past? my friend says zion has been destroyed 5 times, i say its the matrix that was destroyed 5 times.

when neo had to make the choice, to end everything or to choose one person to rebuild zion, he was the first one to choose to destroy everything right?

what do you think the french guy at the restaurant meant when he said that he has survived the 5 previous "ones"? and what exactly is his role? how powerful is he?

do you think the twins survived?

im mainly just confused on the ending with what the architect said about zion and the ending of the matrix.

[thegroggman]

Originally posted by ImpactPlayer@16 May 2003 - 21:44
saw the movie last night and thought it was totally amazing.

i have a few questions though and was wondering if you guys could help clear this up.

has zion been destroyed in the past? my friend says zion has been destroyed 5 times, i say its the matrix that was destroyed 5 times.

when neo had to make the choice, to end everything or to choose one person to rebuild zion, he was the first one to choose to destroy everything right?

what do you think the french guy at the restaurant meant when he said that he has survived the 5 previous "ones"? and what exactly is his role? how powerful is he?

do you think the twins survived?

im mainly just confused on the ending with what the architect said about zion and the ending of the matrix.
Well according to what the Architect said, Zion has been destroyed five times. But there have also been multiple incarnations of the Matrix. And also according to the Architect, every &#39;One&#39; prior to Neo chose to rebuild Zion. Not quite sure what the French guy meant, some say that he is just another old program, but wouldnt it be interesting if at one point he was a One? His wife (the stunning Monica Belucci) did hint at this when she told Neo that he reminded her of her husband. And yeah Im pretty sure the twins survived, when they were blasted into the air, at the last second the phased into their Ghost forms, so Im pretty sure we havent heard the last of them.

[Razz]

Originally posted by thegroggman@16 May 2003 - 20:53
My 2 cents. I think that the &#39;real world&#39; included Zion, is just another Matrix that the architect designed to control that .1% of the population who are anomalies. Its a failsafe, thats why Neo can control the machines in that world too. Remember when Neo says that something is different and how he can sense the machines maybe that was hime realizing that they were inside another Matrix. And quite possibly what they saw as him falling into a comma was actually him waking up once again. It would also explain how Agent Smith being a virus could exist in the Zion world. Then again who knows. Just a thought though. B)
i believe i just said that :), like in 13th floor

[Schmiggy_JK23]

ImpactPlayer: (nice name btw, reference to the ECW click by chance?) Ill try to assist you here.

1. Yes, the architect says this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it, and that they have become extremely proficient at it... so 5 times before, in the matrixs past, the group of rebels has sprung up, because the probability of people accepting the "program"/matrix is only 99%... but that it gets worse, and inevitably will lead to destruction.

2. Yes, by chosing to save trinity, he chose to supposedly forsake zion, all the people in the matrix, and everyone in existance.... bringing about all of their doom, and that the machines would be willing to live with that form of survival on their part, being limited, because they would find some way to go on.

3. At first I thought maybe the french guy was one of the previous ones, but listening to the architect for a third time, he says all the previous one made the choice to return to "the source" ie the core of the matrix, and restart zion... so i would think, they would decompile their code, because it says the matrix takes the anomalies code, and uses it for the next matrix build... so i dont think he is the one now, but I think in a way, hes sorta like agent smith, that he has been freed from the matrix, which he had a previous role, and he just chosen to simply live his life as he pleases... where as smith seems to want utter control, and replication of the matrix...

4. The twins, i dunno. If u watch the explosion, they "ghost" out after it happens, whether to save themselves like they had from previous attacks, or one final time, as they died, im not sure.

as far the ending of the matrix, according the architect, the matrix will seemingly die, or be done with, at some point in the next movie, because neo chose to not restart it so to speak, and let the program digest his anommaly, so it could try to prevent it in the next incarnation of the matrix.... so we will see how neo plans to cover his fuck up, i presume, in the next one.

*btw, I am glad this thread is running smoothly, away from all the other matrix shite on this board, this is actually intellectually stimlutation, and a good read, keep it up guys&#33;*

[thegroggman]

To help the Matrix within a Matrix theory, anyone else notice how in the Zion world everything had a slight blue tone. Just as everything in the Matrix had a slight green one. Now if it was the real world wouldnt it have no tone? Again just a thought. maybe it was just purely cosmetic by the directors to distinguish between the two worlds...or maybe its something more. Oh on an interesting note, wouldnt it be ironic if in the &#39;real&#39; world outside of Zion (if the double Matrix theory is true), that humans were the ones controlling everything? :o

[4play]

yeah that would be a cool thing to have a matrix in a matrix which seems pretty likely to me. Why would the architect let 1% of all people escape where he could not control them.

that humans were the ones controlling everything?

maybe even one person controlling the matrix.
since A.I is not really possible in my opinion. Machines only do what we tell them to do.
like the oracle says the matrix is just aload of programs running.

The architect would have to just be a very old program that we left in charge of too much power. A bit like skynet in the terminator films. This would mean he is the original program and hence would probably be flawed.

As im always seeing on cracking sites. copy protection code is writen by humans so it is fundementally flawed.

[XSpikeX]

Originally posted by thegroggman@16 May 2003 - 21:19
To help the Matrix within a Matrix theory, anyone else notice how in the Zion world everything had a slight blue tone. Just as everything in the Matrix had a slight green one. Now if it was the real world wouldnt it have no tone? Again just a thought. maybe it was just purely cosmetic by the directors to distinguish between the two worlds...or maybe its something more. Oh on an interesting note, wouldnt it be ironic if in the &#39;real&#39; world outside of Zion (if the double Matrix theory is true), that humans were the ones controlling everything? :o
Ummm, I think you were the only one who noticed the different color tones... None of my or my friends saw anything like that. And I&#39;m pretty sure the double matrix thoery is false. If it was true why not simple pull the plug on everyone in Zion?

[XSpikeX]

Originally posted by 4play@16 May 2003 - 21:42
yeah that would be a cool thing to have a matrix in a matrix which seems pretty likely to me. Why would the architect let 1% of all people escape where he could not control them.

that humans were the ones controlling everything?

maybe even one person controlling the matrix.
since A.I is not really possible in my opinion. Machines only do what we tell them to do.
like the oracle says the matrix is just aload of programs running.

The architect would have to just be a very old program that we left in charge of too much power. A bit like skynet in the terminator films. This would mean he is the original program and hence would probably be flawed.

As im always seeing on cracking sites. copy protection code is writen by humans so it is fundementally flawed.
This is a movie, AI is possibly if the writers want it to be possible :ph34r:

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by XSpikeX@16 May 2003 - 16:46
Ummm, I think you were the only one who noticed the different color tones... None of my or my friends saw anything like that. And I&#39;m pretty sure the double matrix thoery is false. If it was true why not simple pull the plug on everyone in Zion?
Because zion is fundamentally key in keeping those that architect said reject the program, the 1%, he says 99% accept it, happy and fullfilled... keeping them at peace, etc. But as this % grows, ie zion, they begin to revolte against the machines, and strive for independance, which is exactly what the machines/matrix cannot have, hence, they restart the program with the help of the annomally, ie, the one... if they just pulled the plug, there would be no place for the minority to go, and the machines dont see a point of just slaughtering them, as, its a waste, and they always win any how, via the choice of the one... maybe????

but this time their plan has failed, and maybe that would have been for the best, because neo made a different choice...

[thegroggman]

Originally posted by 4play@16 May 2003 - 22:42
yeah that would be a cool thing to have a matrix in a matrix which seems pretty likely to me. Why would the architect let 1% of all people escape where he could not control them.


Well thats just the thing 4play, the humans think that by escaping to Zion that they cant be controlled anymore, but really they are just in another part of the Matrix. And your right about there maybe being only one human controlling, what if the Architect was a human? I know that in the film he sure did talk like he was simply a program...but that would be an interesting twist.

[4play]

This is a movie, AI is possibly if the writers want it to be possible

good point well made.

still if neo has now made a different choice from what they were expecting maybe they would have just pulled the plug on him if he was inside another matrix.

they seem to want to improve the matrix that is what the one is about. they are gonna use his code to slowly increase the amount of people accepting the matrix.

I have a fealling agent smith is going to be the one that brings around the desruction of the matrix for some reason. possibly by him turning up in zion in the body of the goatee bloke and showing everyone there that they are still inside the matrix.

so many possibilites so long till the next film.

[thegroggman]

Originally posted by 4play@16 May 2003 - 23:00
I have a fealling agent smith is going to be the one that brings around the desruction of the matrix for some reason. possibly by him turning up in zion in the body of the goatee bloke and showing everyone there that they are still inside the matrix.


Maybe. Remember in the Matrix Revolutions teaser when Morpheus says, "He fights for us..." Well Im pretty sure he isnt talking about Neo. For some reason I have this aching feeling that hes talking about Agent Smith. :blink:

[Evil Fish]

I just have a question. I downloaded the matrix reloaded and it sorta ends right in the middle of this one dude&#39;s line. is that the ending or is there something wrong with the file?

[XSpikeX]

No, it shouldn&#39;t end in the middle of someone&#39;s line. You must have gotten a bad file.

[Evil Fish]

the size is 626,140kb i checked the hash in another thread and this appears to be right. can someone help me out here? is there a way to maybe run a program that can check for errors or something... :unsure:

[Phoenix007]

Whats the length of the movie u downloaded?
The real one should be about 2h15mins

[thegroggman]

Well if you want to check for errors in the video file the program that comes to mind is DivFix. Ill see if I can find a link. ;)

Edit: Heres the link for the program http://www.divx-digest.com/software/divfix.html Good Luck&#33;

[Evil Fish]

@Phoenix007
the length of the first part is 67:46 and the length of the second part is 60:34

@thegroggman
i&#39;ll try it thnx
Edit: my files are .mpeg not .avi so this program wont work

[FlamingYob]

SPOILER




.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..


It cuts out when Neo is on the table after stoping the machines in the real world, it says to be continued.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

I dont think so... i think hes refering to smith trying to take over the matrix, by replicating everyone, or destroying it on some level... look at the thousands of clones in that rain fight scene.... i think hes saying, neo is fighting for us, to keep the matrix, and prevent smith from takin it over...

[thegroggman]

Yeah you&#39;re probably right :D But damn...all this hypthesizing...November cant get here soon enough&#33;

[huuramis]

correction, it sais *TO BE CONCLUDED*

mwhahuahuahua :ph34r:

[Hazzy Hazz]

if there is some connection between agent smith and neo (when a "part" of neo, transferred to agent smith in the first movie), then maybe, Neo has the ability to copy himself (just like agent smith), but he hasn&#39;t realized it as of yet....hmmmmmmm......so many things to ponder.............

[Hazzy Hazz]

And btw, wat happen to Tank? I thought he survived in The First Movie?

[XSpikeX]

Originally posted by Hazzy Hazz@17 May 2003 - 08:19
And btw, wat happen to Tank? I thought he survived in The First Movie?
He wanted too much money, they couldn&#39;t afford him.

[be_man31]

I heard the guy who played tank stole some stuff off the set to sell on ebay and got caught, so they told him not to come back. thats what I heard on ET.

[Stonecoldfreak1]

SPOILER so eh fuck off :lol:

















yeah the guy on the ship says there was 1 survivor... it shows neo then shows the survivor... the guy with the goatee

[RedRival]

Just watched the show, and I have to say it appeared pretty confusing at the end. The music playing up as the goatee dude was shown at the last part made my friend went "WTF&#33;?". I had guessed that Agent Smith was the goatee guy since no sane human (in the real world) would so something so senseless as to cut himselves. I was all for the SFX and action and I missed out most of the dialogue like the french guy (M-person) defeating "5 previous the ones" that I only found after browsing through this board. I think that Agent Smith didn&#39;t enjoy being &#39;trapped&#39; in the human body (but had no choice, he had to enter zion one way or another) so he was cutting himself, don&#39;t think the blood would do much.

Yes, this thread is a good read indeed, please keep it up peeps :D. It resolved some of the questions I faced when Neo destroyed the 5 sentinels near the end of the film in the REAL world and that is what puzzled me. So i read through the board and found 2 possible explanations for that which I thought was appropriate.

One being, Neo was infected with a bit of Agent SMith&#39;s powers in the first Matrix and somehow became part machine due to that. Given his flying abilities etc... and so he had a relationship with the machines one way or another and somehow merging both his powers and that relationship he was able to get rid of the machines.

Second being, it was a matrix inside the matrix and Neo was that 99.9% who did not accept the program and thus was able to use his powers inside the "REAL world Matrix" as well. I thought this two theories could be what we will encounter in the Matrix Revolutions guys&#33;&#33;

Keep this up, nice read and hope to read more. :D

[RedRival]

Argh talking about the trailer... I missed it&#33;&#33; Just walked out when the credits rolled. Damnit now I have to download it off some website with my gay download speeds my ADSL service is giving me :(.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Now, ive noticed this... the trailer that runs after the movie, is seemingly different then the popular one online.... the one online starts with niobi and ghost, talking... and a has some different shots, where the other one, the on after reloaded, does not...

any one seen the one that aired right after the movie online? not totally different, as i have seen the theater one twice... but it is somewhat, strange that that would happen...

[thegroggman]

Im pretty sure that the trailer that has surfaced online is off of the Matrix game. I actually prefer the game one to the one that was shown after Reloaded :D

[lunatacs]

when Neo destroyed the 5 sentinels near the end of the film in the REAL world and that is what puzzled me

before he destroyed them, he said "this feels different"

in my opinion and some others on this thread, did they ever leave the matrix? remember the last guy taking, in room full of tvs? he said, as long as we give people choices,options, they wouldn&#39;t care or know what is really happining? maybe all this revolt, is simply giving them what they want, to keep them happy but yet under control as always.

As for smith, he became his own program, as he said, he is not part of the system or the matrix, but something better. for two reasons that man with a gotee is smith. One he lived and two, it&#39;s the same person smith copyed himself into if you saw it in neo dream, since now, neo can see the future.

[thegroggman]

Yup the highly debated &#39;double-matrix&#39; theory. It sure does answer a whole lot of questions. And besides if it wasnt true how would it have been possible for Smith to have come in the Zion world? Then again
he is not part of the system or the matrix, but something better what if Zion is the real world, and the ability to stop machines is something Neo gained from agent Smith (or possibly the Mainframe). And referring to your quote, what if by something &#39;better&#39; Smith meant that he had somehow become a machine/human hybrid. It would explain his ability to come to the real world. :huh:

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by lunatacs@17 May 2003 - 12:36
in my opinion and some others on this thread, did they ever leave the matrix? remember the last guy taking, in room full of tvs? he said, as long as we give people choices,options, they wouldn&#39;t care or know what is really happining? maybe all this revolt, is simply giving them what they want, to keep them happy but yet under control as always.
Good point&#33; Think about it... i havent watched it again to check and see... but didnt every time they were in the matrix, we someone at least hard wire out? For the final scene, we do not see this... yet, they are there, in the supposed "real world".... did they even leave... good question...

[thegroggman]

I&#39;m pretty sure they did leave the Matrix, cuz although you guys are right that they didnt show them leave, they did show their operator (Link). That is when they were abandoning their ship.

[lunatacs]

I&#39;m pretty sure they did leave the Matrix, cuz although you guys are right that they didnt show them leave, they did show their operator (Link). That is when they were abandoning their ship.

try to look at the bigger picture of what is reality and real. :)

[dmorgan89]

woah :blink: headache headache. after watching that movie i really did have a headache. could there be a connection in the feeling that neo talked about after smith tried to turn him in the fight against all the smiths and the feeling when he took out the machines at the end?

[dmorgan89]

how come neo was hurt after he took out the machines. wonder if whatever he did to them drained his power. does he have built in emp?

[thegroggman]

Good point dmorgan89. I didnt even think about that. Maybe by stopping the replicaation he gained something from Smith. Then again, the same thing happened to Morpheus...

how come neo was hurt after he took out the machines. wonder if whatever he did to them drained his power. does he have built in emp?
No one can be quite sure, theres alot of theorys. Mine is that maybe he realized then that Zion was also a Matrix, and when he passed out he was actually waking up in the &#39;real&#39; world.

[thegroggman]

Ive mentioned before, how it would be interesting (if the double-matrix theory holds true) if it were humans outside controlling everybody and everything in the Matrix. But an even slicker twist would be, what if everyone in the Matrix and Zion were just programs :blink:

[lunatacs]

read my post, buddy. :)

[dmorgan89]

ok there is no way and i refuse to believe that there is a matrix inside a matrix and such. of course it&#39;s a possiblity, but i dont want to believe that because that would suck. not to cut anyone&#39;s theory down or anything. it&#39;s just i can&#39;t stand to think that. that would disappoint me. and i also think that would disappoint other viewers so i dont think they would do that. but who knows.

p.s. the matrix inside a matrix is kinda like that part in men in black 2 about the aliens in the locker. will said something like "we should let them know the world is bigger than just that locker". tommy lee jones opened a door that was a locker door to another big world. anyways it&#39;s hard to explain it but if you&#39;ve seen the movie you will know what i&#39;m talking about. I thought that was a big no no and it ruined men in black for me.

[dmorgan89]

Good point dmorgan89. I didnt even think about that. Maybe by stopping the replicaation he gained something from Smith. Then again, the same thing happened to Morpheus...

your right. he did do the same thing to morpheus, but what if it was different when he did it to neo because of the human/machine connection they have. if their powers were switched maybe it was different who knows. i still don&#39;t understand why neo was hurt after he stoped the machines? anyone else have a theory about this.

[scruge]

I think the matrix is a manifestation of the machines evolving to self awareness and battling with that struggle through use of what they know or knew of people.
If you believe the Double Matrix theory then logic dictates the cocoons from which Neo and others were released from, were as much apart of the illusion as any other thing in the Matrix. Think about that for a moment. Why use people to generate power? Why not some other large mammal. Plus you don&#39;t have to keep animals pre-occupied with silly illusions. Next point if the connectors on their bodies disappear when they&#39;re in the inter-Matrix because they don&#39;t see themselves as having them, then why do they and others see themselves and other with them when out? (reason, the matrix is still in control). Third point, if most of these people (including Neo) were raised from birth without having ever looked into a mirror how would they know how to perceive themselves? (again the matrix)

I think the matrix is a collective of interconnected machines evolving at different rates. You see signs of natural selection taking place through the various iterations Neo has taken the 5 previous times.
I think Agent Smith is actually further along the evolutionary track than most others. He appears to be more aware of his circumstances than the others and wants to get out.

What lies outside the Matrix is really irrelevant. It could be a world of pure machines void of all live or it could be a kids computer game and we&#39;re watching the struggle taking place within..

-----------
Questions, When Neo at the end appeared to stop the machines, are you sure he did? Maybe the ship that rescued them released an emp just as Neo raised his hand, giving the impression Neo was responsible.

[lunatacs]

When i think of matrix, i think about the borg.( from star trek) :lol: :D :P B) :rolleyes: :) ;)

[thegroggman]

ok there is no way and i refuse to believe that there is a matrix inside a matrix and such. of course it&#39;s a possiblity, but i dont want to believe that because that would suck. Yeah your right, that would really suck, and in reality I dont want that too be true, its just a theory that Im throwing out there. And besides the idea has been done before.

[lunatacs]

ok there is no way and i refuse to believe that there is a matrix inside a matrix and such. of course it&#39;s a possiblity, but i dont want to believe that because that would suck.

ever seen the movie the cube or cube 2 (hypercube)?

go see it, you be amazed i&#39;m sure. :P :rolleyes: :D :lol:

[dmorgan89]

Questions, When Neo at the end appeared to stop the machines, are you sure he did? Maybe the ship that rescued them released an emp just as Neo raised his hand, giving the impression Neo was responsible.

thats possible, but how do you explain the feeling he talked about when they came. it would be too coincidence. although it did look kinda like an emp blast like from the first movie it would still be too coincidence. i think he accaully did stop them. i think something new is fixing to happen.

[lunatacs]

maybe the machines :rolleyes: stripped on something? :D

[dmorgan89]

ever seen the movie the cube or cube 2 (hypercube)?

nope. fraid i&#39;ve never seen it.

[thegroggman]

Cube was a good film (havent seen hypercube yet) but it just adds to my point that the matrix within a matrix has been done before, and wouldnt be very original on the Wachowski brothers part.

[sk8punk151]

Loved the movie and understood most of it, but I one question

-At the end, when they had only found one survivor, was that supposed to be cypher??&#33;&#33; Through the whole movie I kept on thinking he stangely looked like him and his voice was the same i THOUGHT... hmmm, I hope someone can answer this for me :(

[lunatacs]

SMITH&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

it wa smith for three reasons, one neo had a dream about smith copying himself into goatee guy and then picking up the ringing phone and going into the real world...two, tried to kill neo, lol that same guy was cutting himself then wanted to attack neo when some kid saves him by calling neo name for him to turn around.. and THREE, he was the only one who lived through that battle... if anybody else can add something please do.

[sk8punk151]

Ok, that makes a lot of sense when I think about it.. Thanx for the answer.. I cant wait to see revolutions now :D

[DeadGuy]

dude it was a different guy remeber, his name was like Bahl or something like that

[Schmiggy_JK23]

the guy at the end was the same guy smith infected, and then took the phone call out with... plain and simple, no questions asked... thats the big, cliffhanger...

[RedRival]

The Matrix inside the Matrix doesn&#39;t seem to be a very credible theory. BUt it could be and matrix revolution could answer all this questions that arrived after watching the first few instalments of the Matrix Saga. The Second Reconaissance (part 1 and 2) was meant to show us what the REAL world is and what happened to it and how the the matrix was derived. So if you accept the theory shown in The Second Reconaissance you believe that there is only 1 matrix and it&#39;s the architecture of the machines and NOT humans. But if you believe in the fact that there&#39;s a Matrix inside the Matrix, and humans were the architecture of this two matrix&#39;s, I have to wonder why this human architects will want to do something like that. Because I know for a fact if there was only 1 matrix, the machines created it so that the humans are placed in some sort of dreamworld while they were used as batteries. But if there were the human architects who build the 2 matrix&#39;s, what was his goal?? I guess only time will tell :D.

ANd, to add I kinda figured that there were 5 "The Ones" (as mentioned by the french guy at the restaurant) before Neo came around... See the architect at the end said the matrix was opened 6 times and Neo was probably the 6th "the one", it&#39;ll be time before the matrix was opened for the 7th time and Neo will be stripped off his post and thus the matrix saga continues almost endlessly.

[Jayhawk]

all i have to say to the Matrix is WOW it was everything i wanted it to be and more

[silverccrow]

wELL WELL EVERYBODY SEEMS 2 HAVE A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW BUT PERHAPS EVERYONE HAS FORGOT IS THAT NEO IS THE ONE

WHO MORPHEUS ( THE GOD OF DREAMS ) HAS WAKE UP IN THE REAL WORLD THERE IS NO QUESTION THERE IS NO MATRIX IN THE MATRIX *BELIVE UR SELF * NEO REALIZE THAT HE IS IS NOT JUST A NORMAL GUY TRING TO FLY HE IS ACTUALLY FLYING &#33; SO WHATS THE DIFFERENCE IN THE REAL WORLD REMEMBER THIS ( SOME RULES CAN BE BEND OTHER CAN BE BROKEN ) IF U DIE IN THE MATRIX U DIE HERE &#33;

THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE ?
WHAT IS THE REAL POTENTIAL OF UR MINDS? EINSTEIN ONLY USE 15% OF HIS BRAIN &#33;&#33;

another thing share is the real purpouse of ur lifes&#33; :ph34r:
do u share __??

[RedRival]

*BUMP*
This is a good thread and I wanna read more, no way am I gonna let this sink into oblivion :lol:

[Hazzy Hazz]

its a great thread no doubt but we&#39;ll find answers after the revolutions release unless the wackowski bros are here to talk this out :D

[scruge]

.Some questions I have.
1. When Neo goes to meet the architect why does he have to shut down a Nuclear power plant? I thought all power was being generated by humans.

2. If Zion really exists outside the Matrix, then why haven&#39;t they attempted attacks on the critical support components of the Matrix? Plus they&#39;d have the added advantage of a level playing field. There’s no bending the rules in reality.

3. Why are the Zion’s unaware of the first 5 Neos? Even in reality we are aware of the existence of civilizations that are now extinct.

4. Is Neo the "One or Savior", because he was a computer hacker in his Matrix form? As a result he&#39;s able to bend the rules or rewrite the code to serve his needs? If that is true, when Neo exhibits similar capabilities outside the Matrix wouldn&#39;t that imply he was still in a Matrix of some type?

5. What exactly is Neo&#39;s and Zion&#39;s purpose? They certainly seem content to co-exist with the matrix. I&#39;ve seen no evidence of an attempt to shut it down. Why is that?

6. If Zion is 2000 meters below the surface wouldn&#39;t that mean there’s a tunnel already leading to the surface. Why don&#39;t the machines just seal off the tunnel? Or is it because its not reality, the 2000 meters of rock represents a "Fire Wall" that isolates Zion from the Master Matrix. The digging by the machines represents the Master Matrix finding a backdoor into Zion. When Smith passes a part of his code to the guy just before the guy exits the Master Matrix in my mind is like a Trojan horse virus hitching a ride on a friendly email through a fire wall.


I personally think it’s just a big Matrix. Hollywood needed a stage that provided the means to elevate Kung Fu fighting to a more spectacular level. What better stage than the inside of a computer. I don&#39;t believe for a minute there is any substance in the story line.

[thegroggman]

Hey Scruge...let me see if I can answer your questions...

1. Well yes its true that the Matrix itself is powered by human beings, but inside the Matrix that city block was powered by the Nuclear power plant, it helps with the allusion convincing the people inside that what they see is real.

2. Hmmm, good point, probably their main reason for not doing so, is that they arent adaquetly equiped to fight off the Sentinels.

3. Hmm...yeah thats a more complicated answer. Apparently each &#39;One&#39; existed in a different version of the Matrix (1.0, 2.0, etc), everytime the One chose the other door (the one Neo didnt choose) they reset the Matrix, erasing all knowledge of previous incarnations (except by the programs themselves).

4. LOL...this is much debated my friends...maybe Zion is another Matrix, maybe its something else, we&#39;ll have to wait till Nov.

5. Well...from the outside (Zion) there has been no attempt because of the Sentinels, and the humans could not win against the machines. From the inside though, they were attempting to access the Mainframe of the MAtrix, thats why Neo met the Architect...

6. Good point, to add to that this is the 6th time the machines are digging towards Zion...whatever happened to the old tunnels? Again...gotta wait till Nov.

Hope it helped :D

[vash444]

Questions, When Neo at the end appeared to stop the machines, are you sure he did? Maybe the ship that rescued them released an emp just as Neo raised his hand, giving the impression Neo was responsible.

Like some people say, Neo might be part machine, so therefore the EMP could have possible damaged Neo?

[sk8punk151]

Question:

-In the restraunt scene with the french dude.. Behind where the two ghost were sitting was what looked to be like a bong&#33;&#33; haha.. LOL.. This is a stupid question, but I just noticed it and it looks like a hookah.. Did anyone else spot this ? :P :lol:

[greenlance00]

I am going to post my opinions on the movie. We are all entitled to our own opinions and I am not looking to argue with anyone on who is right or wrong, if you think the movie was great, then more power to you.

I think this film is horrible. It had the same fate that episode 2 had from star wars. The dialogue was very bad. I think the actors did a horrible job. I have seen many other films where they did a much better job of acting. The actor who played morpheus was in a shakespear movie, I think it was othello where his acting was amazing, this time he just seemd like an idiot. They made Neo look like a super hero, this is really stupid, there are enough super hero films out as it is. They should have kept him more in the image of a prophet. I don&#39;t understand if Neo can fly, why he didn&#39;t just fly away from the agent smiths to begin with. Also, if he can stop bullets with his hands, why can&#39;t he stop all the guys he was fighting on the stairs with his mind, and the agents for that matter. There were no new effects in this movie. How many times can the camera speed up and slow down in one fight seen. It was just a rehash of the effects from the first one. They tried to sound really deep in the meanings of the dialogue, especially in Zion and they just came out as dumb. They even used a lot of big words when cournal sanders was speaking at the end about the creation of the matrix, I think this was an attemp to try and sound smart hoping no one would understand they had no idea what they were talking about. I saw one trailor for the movie and it ruined the entire thing, almost every scene and punch line in the movie was in that trailor. Also, why does the whole team of them walk around like they are bad asses, only Neo has the "power". The scene with the lady eating the cake was stupid. When I saw that, all I could think of was a bunch of computer nerds who could never get none taking advantage of the fact that they have a lot of money to get a scene like that. The CG in this movie was way over done. All the agent smiths looked stupid, there just flew through the air until they hit stuff. But it was abvious they were fake since the ones that got nailed in the face with a pipe didn&#39;t take damage and still looked the same as the rest. Monica ballucci was only in this movie because they thought she was hot. Why does neo keep seing every thing in green kataka letters. That is so stupid, those symbols are part of the Japanese alphabet that is for foreign words. Why would the world be made up of that? I think I will call it, "Matrix Vision". Its like eating Japanese alphabet cereal. The soundtrack sucked. All the bands on there either used old songs or made new ones that really sucked. Morpheus is a bad public speaker and the rave scene after that was not needed. I guess everyone in Zion wears see through cloths. I feel bad for Neo, he is stuck with Trinity. I would take monica ballucci anyday.

There was only one thing I thought was decent about this movie and that was at the part near the end when Trinity is hacking on the computer. She is using real hacking software, it is a port scanner to see what programs are running so she can find ports to hack in under. This is interesting because most movies with hacking scenes just have some stupid gui interface that is not realistic at all.

All in all, this movie sucked. I saw it the first showing on wednesday night at 10:00 at the regal in oaks and I was extremely dissapointed. I knew there was a preview for revolutions at the end and I didn&#39;t even care to stick around to watch it.

I also forgot to mention, why were there so many cadilacs in the movie. For a movie to be believable, it has to be in a normal setting, not some imaginary world where everyone driveds cadilacs. Also, when the escalade the twins were in got shot by morpheus, it blew up right away. The SUV the twins shot a few times flipped and crashed right away, but the car trinity was driving was made into swiss cheese, had a flat tire and still managed to drive on. There were holes all along the side, yet no one was shot inside. They were next to windows yet they did not duck.

I don&#39;t know if this symbolizes anything, but when Neo met Smith in the park, there were a lot of ravens flying away from where he was. If you follow Tibetan buddhism, the way they know who the next dalai lhama will be is because at the house he is born at, there are a lot of black ravens near by. This may symbolize something, it may just be a dumb coincidence. I have a feeling the story line will only get worse though. At the end when Neo stops the sentinals, I pray that they are not trying to say they in in a matrix within a matrix, because if this is what is supposed to be happening, I will be extremely let down on creativity.

I do not take credit for coming up with all of these complaints, however I am not speaking for someone else either. Some of them were thoughts that someone else mentioned to me, but once I thought about it, I completely agreed with them.

[sred2003]

At the end when Neo stops the sentinals, I pray that they are not trying to say they in in a matrix within a matrix, because if this is what is supposed to be happening, I will be extremely let down on creativity.


oh no if that happens you will be let down. WTF
obviously you were already let down. you just wrote a book about how bad
it was. lol

ok so you hated the movie, thats your problem. then just say you didn&#39;t like it.
your ty-raid was laughable and shows you take yourself WAY too seriously.
damn blue pill addicts. they just don&#39;t get it

[scruge]

Here are some more dumb questions.
1. Why are the weapons in the matrix different from those outside? Bullets, knifes, swords and blunt objects verses Lasers and emp? I would think a big magnet would be a pretty effective weapon. LOL&#33;
2. If you&#39;ve got your enemy all bunched up in a tunnel it seems it would be rather easy to destroy them.
3. Why is it, that Neo has worn that filthy t-shirt through 2 movies now? Don&#39;t they have washing machines?
4. If they are able to build hover craft wouldn&#39;t you think they&#39;d have better housing than those old rusted out iron doors sealing off a hole in the wall?
5. I may have missed this one; I didn&#39;t notice any infants in Zion.
6. The Frenchman mentioned he wrote the code for the clit stimulating pie. Does that mean he&#39;s a chef, hacker or pervert?
7. Why in the matrix would a person need to take a piss?
8. If Zion is able to support life, then why don&#39;t they have a better selection of food?
9. Why is the clothing inconsistent in and out of the matrix?
10. How can Zion have such a diverse population if only a few are used to seed it with each iteration of the Matrix?

I think the movie could have used a techincal director...

[4play]

every hollwood movie is allowed to be a little bit flexible with stuff like the hero&#39;s car getting shot up and the baddies being shit shot&#39;s.

I mean in star wars the clones who are breed to be soldiers are shit shots.

everyone is entitled to there opinion and you do bring up some valid points.

I did like the fact that they used an actual hack in the movie rather then just have a nice gui with a h4X button on it.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Everybody thinks they are roger ebert these days... I dont get why people cant just go to a theater, with some nachos, popcorn, and pop, their girlfriend, or friends, and enjoy a flick entertainment wise, without thinking they are critiquing the next nominees for Oscars best picture... ;)

but ur entitled to your opinion, sorry you didnt enjoy it... but someone who went at 10pm on wednesday, (i did too), i would think you would have done your homework a bit, and known somewhat, what to expect....

[lunatacs]

does anybody know when Revolution might be coming out?




thank you, can&#39;t wait now. :D B)

[Schmiggy_JK23]

november 4th

[dmorgan89]

woah i just had a wierd idea. when the hovercrafts went to take on the sentinenals and killed them with the emp then if that dude with the goatee is really smith then he would be machine right? wouldn&#39;t the emp have killed him instead of hurting him? that might acccually cut out that the man with the goatee isn&#39;t accually smith.

[lunatacs]

smith is a program (machine) he isn&#39;t part of the matrix and since smith became something more then his program could ever reach, he became just as a treat to the matrix as neo. killing him wouldn&#39;t be easy.

[greenlance00]

I think I made a lot of mistakes with this movie. I should not have watched any trailors, this certainly ruined a lot of surprise in the movie. I should not have sat around waiting to see the first showing. And I should have had no expectations of it. If I had done all this, I feel it would have been a much better movie. When I saw the sequal to the x-men movie, I didn&#39;t even realize it was coming out. I didn&#39;t hear any hype about it. So I just went and watched it for the hell of it and it turned out to be really good. Much better than I expected since I didn&#39;t have any expectations at all. But the matrix sequals have been getting hyped for the past 3 years. They had enough trailors with actions seens that when combined revealed most of the movie. And it opened on at least 6 screens in a lot of the regal theaters. Because of this, the level of expectation was extremely high. So high that I don&#39;t think any movie could possibly even reach that level. When the movie started, people started clapping. Unfortunately, after all this, there was really was only room to go down. I don&#39;t feel that my money was wasted at all. I think it is worth watching. Just have high expectations that can&#39;t be reached like I did or you will be attacking everything you see. B)

I also just wanted to mention, I knew before hand that if you stayed around you would get to see a preview of revolutions. However I am determined to not watch any trailors for the third part because I don&#39;t want to ruin any of it. If I go into Revolutions thinking it is going to be the worst movie ever, I think the only thing that could happen is it will be way better than I expected. :D

[scruge]

The Matrix is nothing more than a SciFi Fantasy movie, Eye Candy. The story line is dictated by the techno effects the director is trying to work into the movie. If you saw the interviews with the cast and crew on dateline, you would have picked up on that fact. All they could talk about was coming up with stunts and effects that would be difficult to copy by lower budget movies. Very little discussion on the story line.

I agree with greenlance on every point and especialy choosing Ballucci over Trinty. The closeups of Trinty should have been cut from the movie. She looked old and hardened, the lines on her face were not attractive.

[Longdong]

i have a question.

When neo etc are plugged back into the matrix from the ship what happens if they need a piss? surely they would just piss themselves whilst on the ship unconciously&#33; HA &#39;The One&#39; wearing a nappy&#33; :D :D

[sk8punk151]

Originally posted by Longdong@18 May 2003 - 21:02
i have a question.

When neo etc are plugged back into the matrix from the ship what happens if they need a piss? surely they would just piss themselves whilst on the ship unconciously&#33; HA &#39;The One&#39; wearing a nappy&#33; :D :D
Yeh lol I think they would prolly take a piss or shit in the matrix, but in the real world while they are asleep I dont think pee or shit would come out because in reality they really are not doing either.. See what I am saying?? Same, with wen they eat.. You dont see them chewing or burping while they are sleeping.. lol

[scruge]

Did anyone notice smith never used a gun?
Do you think Neo will find a use for Smith&#39;s ear piece?
What&#39;s with Neo&#39;s attitude towards the boy?

[thegroggman]

Did anyone notice smith never used a gun? What&#39;s with Neo&#39;s attitude towards the boy? Actually when the group of Agent Smith&#39;s are in the hallway fighting Neo and Morpheus he does use a gun....or really all of him do. Remember they end up killing the keymaker? As for Neo&#39;s attitude towards the boy...well I dont think he hates him or anything, its just hes a kid...and hes annoying. How would you like it if some kid was pestering you all the time?

[dmorgan89]

was anyone else kinda grossed out with the neo and trinity sex scene. it&#39;s definutely not my fantasy to see people with holes in thier backs and arms going at it.

[thegroggman]

LOL...yeah those holes were a little unnerving, but more so than being disturbed by it I was annoyed. Some folks made the argument that the sex scene/rave were needed to show how humans could rejoice , something the machines could never do. But...did it have to be so long? I mean that thing went on 4-EVER&#33; :angry:

[BLMS]

how did the oracle and the creator of the matrix know that he was dreaming about trinity if he was supposed to be in the real world

[XSpikeX]

Originally posted by scruge@18 May 2003 - 20:30
Did anyone notice smith never used a gun?
Do you think Neo will find a use for Smith&#39;s ear piece?
What&#39;s with Neo&#39;s attitude towards the boy?
As said above they did use guns. They killed the keymaker.

No, the ear piece was just to show Neo that he&#39;s out of the system and not following whoevers orders anymore.

The kid is just some kid Neo pulled out of the Matrix, he probably just annoys Neo a little bit but I don&#39;t think it&#39;s a huge deal.

[vash444]

I&#39;ve just started thinking...

In the first Matrix (movie), when Cypher was meeting with Smith in the Matrix and eating (steak was it?), how did Cypher get out of the Matrix? Wouldn&#39;t Tank or Dozer have noticed that Cypher was in the Matrix, let alone talking to Smith?

[XSpikeX]

Originally posted by BLMS@18 May 2003 - 22:26
how did the oracle and the creator of the matrix know that he was dreaming about trinity if he was supposed to be in the real world
Because they know about him. They&#39;re extremely smart machines.

[thegroggman]

how did the oracle and the creator of the matrix know that he was dreaming about trinity if he was supposed to be in the real world ...Maybe hes not in the real world :unsure: [looks around nervously] Or maybe when someone hooks up to the Matrix their thoughts are somehow downloaded. Oh I know that Phesperone (sp?) can read minds, thoughts, desires, etc. just by kissing someone. So who knows, Im sure that&#39;ll be explained in the next one.

[BLMS]

what did the spoon symbolize? in the first one it symbolized something thats part of the matrix and isn&#39;t real? how could it also be in zion unless it was a different spoon or maybe it further confirms the theory zion is a double matrix

[XSpikeX]

Originally posted by BLMS@18 May 2003 - 22:36
what did the spoon symbolize? in the first one it symbolized something thats part of the matrix and isn&#39;t real? how could it also be in zion unless it was a different spoon or maybe it further confirms the theory zion is a double matrix
Jeese, don&#39;t overthink this. The kid in the original matrix who bent the spoon was a real human. He was in zion and just decided to send it to Neo for good luck.

[4play]

the spoon was a sign from that kid you showed that it did not exsist in the matrix.

It was not the same spoon because it was very roughly made.

And it is an intersting point about being able to read his thoughs. if he was in the matrix in zion they would know exactly what they are all up to. :ph34r:

the machines would be very jeolous that they could not have a rave like that. :D

[thegroggman]

the machines would be very jeolous that they could not have a rave like that. ROFL...LOL...Just the thought of machines being &#39;jealous&#39;. LOL...that just cracks me up. On a more serious note, its interesting that all the machines lack any type of emotion (except for the rogue programs) oh and Agent Smith who is a rogue now, but even in the first Matrix...he was ...well a bit out there,
I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can&#39;t stand it any longer. It&#39;s the smell, if there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I&#39;ve somehow been infected by it. . Oh well just thought I decided to throw in.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by scruge@18 May 2003 - 15:30
What&#39;s with Neo&#39;s attitude towards the boy?
Watch the animatrix shorts, then you will see where the kid came from... he was in one of those, and they tied him in to the movie...

[lunatacs]

yeah that was a nice short films, surely explained alot for me.


*off topic*

i saw two animatrix, one 1G and the other one is 4G, whats the difference? (besides the size duh lol)
more films included in the other? information? new stuff?

[scruge]

i just watched it again, I couldn&#39;t figure out the part when they first returned to Zion why the control room that let them in was all super white and modern, but Zion was a piss hole of a place. The people were dirty and using torches and all the hover craft looked like they were falling apart from rust.

Another part was when Neo enters the white room and the monitors zoom out from what looked like a solar system. Could the white room have been aboard a space craft? Remember the keymaker comments the floor Neo needs to go to can not be reached by stair or elevator, maybe he had to be teleported?

[lunatacs]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:







:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :P

[Sarcasimo]

Originally posted by scruge@19 May 2003 - 02:03
i just watched it again,&nbsp; I couldn&#39;t figure out the part when they first returned to Zion why the control room that let them in was all super white and modern, but Zion was a piss hole of a place.&nbsp; The people were dirty and using torches and all the hover craft looked like they were falling apart from rust.&nbsp;

If you watch right before they cut to that nice white "control" room, you will see those people that were in the "control" room were plugged into a Construct. (like the training programs except this one made to control Zion) It would make sense to control Zion from a construct like that to save on resources, and allow for better control.


**Edit**
Changed my wording a little

[scruge]

thanks on the control room explanation. I gather your saying that was an automated attendant? Pretty fancy hardware the attendants have verses what the hover craft are equipped with

How about the meeting with the architect. If you watch very closely it looks like Neo is being transported to another planet or ship as he enters the room. I watched it again frame by frame and it is definitely a pan out from a solar system as he passes through the door.

[AznRocky]

does any one know the real movie on kazaa i watched the movie already i just wanted to see it again i fell asleep ike in da middle cause i watched it at 12:00 midnight but i dont get the ending&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by AznRocky@18 May 2003 - 23:03
does any one know the real movie on kazaa i watched the movie already i just wanted to see it again i fell asleep ike in da middle cause i watched it at 12:00 midnight but i dont get the ending&#33;&#33;&#33;
read my first post... this is NOT the place for file requests, etc... there are like, 3-4 different versions listed in the verifieds at the moment, go look there...

Lunatics, get the svcd version of the animatrix, its the best imho.

any how, some new comments on my part, btw, thread looks great, keep up the good chat.

1. after watching it again, i did notice that whole space pan out... i wonder that was all about... like he went from point a) earth in the matrix to point B) the architects room, via space or some shit, very interesting.

2. more and more, when neo comes out of the matrix, the "this feels different" is sticking in my head... for some reason, that is key... maybe just from that point on they are in a matrix within a matrix...???... ie, they think they left, but the machines, knowing neos choice, tricked them into thinking they were out? because as i said ealier, we never see them "leave", and that would also explain his control of the machines

[AznRocky]

wha :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:
well anyways ya know how neo is like in the hospital thingy and that other dude is there what does that mean?

[dmorgan89]

hold on. i want to go over these unexpected abilities of smith and neo.

Neo:
1. Can See into the future (he see&#39;s trinity die in his dreams and it accually comes true.

2. Neo can now sense smith. (Neo can&#39;t necessarily sense agents. But he can sense smith. That&#39;s some kind of connection between the two.

3. He can stop the sentinenals.

Smith:
1. He can now duplicate himself. (Not really sure how he&#39;s now doing this. Thinking maybe he got the ability from Neo when he jumped into Smith in the first movie and blew him up.)

2. He can now enter the real world from the Matrix with people he has duplicated himself with.

3. He can switch bodies from Smith to the person he has taken over or duplicated himself with. (I know this because he duplicated the dude with the goatee and now in the real world he is the goatee person. That tells me he can switch between the two now.


Is all of this correct?

[thegroggman]

Yup, that about wraps it up oh...also, Neo can not only stop the sentinels, but he can sense them also.

[tyk]

hey all. this is my 1st post in this board. Well, never notice thats so much matrix lover around. Anyway some thoughts on the movie.

1) Can we explain matrix in this form:

Source - Bios
Matrix - OS
Neo & Gangs - Virus
Agents - Anti-Virus
Oracle / French Guy - Important Background programs
Smiths - Corrupted / Infected program

2) Who are those protectors (the twins - french guy, gangfu guy - oracle)? Their abilities are almost on par with neo. If they are programs, why agents are not coded in such ways (in first part of movie, neo did mentioned the upgraded version of agents. IMHO hardly any improvement compared to these protectors)? Is it because of balancing (cause unbalance or disturbance when too-powerful agents in work or fighting neo)? Or the added power came at a cost of independent thoughts (eg, smiths)?

3) I&#39;d a interest in Lost Civilisation stuff, and the concept of Zions being destroyed and rebuilded come too close to certain myths, like what mentioned in Maya history, our current era is the fifth civilisation, there are previous 4 b4 us, all being destroyed due to many reasons, but nevertheless, all are at its civilisation peak.

4) The architect mentioned neo is a flaw in programming, and dispite his best effort, could not remedy the fault (cant remember his exact speech). Then he go on to explain theres previous 5 The One (some major bug in the matrix, same problem occur 6 times dispite its 6th upgrade, sort of remind me Microsoft Window). He add on to say about its pre-determine (I&#39;m no sure about this part) that The One will come to the Source to make a Choice, pre-determine as in the triggering event must occur - the immediate danger of Zions being exterminated (happens 5 times b4). The One who had the code in him/her will decide to shut down the matrix and choose to rebuild Zions with xx men & xx women (forget the numbers) OR chose to let human race extinct by ??? (forget the method he said, is it by not doing anything?). OK, problems I cant figure out:

a. What code (in The One) is he referring to? I&#39;m thinking is it a code to cause matrix to reboot (eg Ctrl + Alt + Del)? Is this the ultimate weapon The One posses?

b. He mentioned Zions had been destroyed 5 times, and they are becoming very good at it. So, why not destroyed it during its rebuild period, why let it develop into a city that pose as a threat to matrix? Are there a secret pact made by The One and the source (let the city reach a population size of 42 b4 u take any action. Note I&#39;m a fan of Civilisation series)? Or Zions is a key triggering event to bring all The One to the source?

c. Whats with the xx men & xx women Neo can choose to rebuild Zions. Who decide the numbers? Neo? Apparently not. Architect? Yes to a certain sense as he bring out the number. Whats with these numbers (I&#39;m also into NASA conspiracy about MARs, secret numbers like 19.5 or 33.3 pose significant to certain people or organisation)? So how is these people being chosen? From the survivers of Zions (say matrix purposely spare these people, who may be selected by neo, during their attack on Zions) OR from the huge pool of unplugged human in matrix? Btw, does all these sound like project Ark?

d. Lets assume the above holds a certain truth, ie The One is pre-determiine to meet with source. Now, a very important role, the key maker must exist. Why agents deem its top priority to &#39;delete&#39; him during the car/motorcycle chase scene? Why the matrix issue such order? To thicken the plot, or as another way to hasten the pace of the meeting?

Theres so much to talk about matrix, but I really like to hear others opinions b4 raising other questions.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

great post, i look forward to replying and chatting on it tommorrow, when im not falling asleep&#33; :D

ill get to it thought, night for now.

[ZLOsiris]

The more that i thought about it the more it would seem that the smiths and Neo share something that unite the 2. If you noticed that the other smith was the only 1 to survive that attck would tell you that he had the same power that neo has outside the matrix, that he had to use it to save himelf and also went into a coma . I doubt that the matrix woulda spared him seeing that he is screwing up the matrix a bit by coping himself. Who knows maybe the smith was also one point in time" the one" or a version of it. The agents are what "the one" was. As in the first movie she says, wow how did you do that you move jus like they do.

[thegroggman]

Hey welcome to the board ZLOsiris. Good point about Smith possibly being a &#39;One&#39;. Thats a very fresh idea. We&#39;ll find out come Nov. oh and tyk ...wow man...did you enter this forum with a bang. Damn...I want to comment on your post...but i dont know where to begin...Ill have to think about it :)

[kildred11]

Just saw it for the second time and had some thoughts about what the architect said.
He mentioned that they have destroyed Zion before and are very good at it. This made me think,
if theydestroyed Zion in real-life then there would be no threat. But lets say Zion is in fact not a real world.
Could it be a Matrix? The Architect says they are testing their reactions, in a way. Perhaps they want
to see how the people will react if they ever found out they where in a Matrix. The "Zion reality"
could give them a way to test how they react. If this where true that would explain a lot of what the Architect said.
Neo did sense the machines in the "Zion reality" and destroyed them. This suggests he is becoming aware that
he is in another virtual reality. I mean he never knew that he was in the Matrix in the first movie, why would he think he
was in another when he got out.

Of course there might only be one Matrix and The Architect was lying to try to protect his Matrix. It does make sense.
Why would he say " Well looks like you beat us" and let Neo destroy the Matrix. Then again maybe the machines have destroyed a
real world Zion and rebuilt it again. But that seems more far fetch sense it would be easier to make a Virtual Reality
and test them that way instead of using a real world. Man I hope the last movie can make some sense of all this.
What do you all think?

[be_man31]

ok this is how I gather it, first off about smith> smith is now a rogue program or virus(whatever you wanna call him) when neo destroyed him in the first matrix he didn&#39;t really destroy him but some how made him an anomoly and transfered unintentionally his programing or essence on to smith which is why they can sense each other. he says it to neo when they meet at the park after the meeting with the the ORACLE.

as for the french guy in the hotel> he is a old but rogue program from the earlier matrix, don&#39;t forget neo is dealing with sentient AI programs so when they have revelations about something for ex. "AWARENESS" they have a choice and to either stay with the program or not. when the oracle explains that when a program is due for termination he chooses to stay alive and then goes into hiding and becomes a rogue program or an anomily as the architect calls them.

now remember when the architect mentions there is a mother and a father of the matrix and neo says its the oracle that is the "mother" of the matrix and the architect scoffs at neo? what I think is that neo is the father and "TRINITY" is the mother. of course I could be grasping for straws but thats what I&#39;m assuming. and thats why they are destined to fall in love. remember in the first matrix when neo gets shot and trinity tells neo that the oracle told her that she would fall in love with "the one" and that they were destined to be together? maybe thats why, cuzz she&#39;s the "mother" and neo is the "father" of the matrix.

the one thing (of several) that bothers me is how smith is able to survive out of the matrix in the guys body, I&#39;m still trying to figure that one out. :unsure:

[huuramis]

someone said agent smith got something from neo when neo killed smith in the last movie, does that mean neo can duplicate himself also ? . and also, someone said that guy with the goatee is agent smith ?, how did you get that idea ?. :blink: .... maybe the reason agent smith can survive in the matrix and the real world is because, like maybe hes a virus that can survive in any OS, think of the matrix and the real world as os&#39;s.. or somthing.. all this talk is making me mental&#33; WAHHHHHHHHHHH :blink: .. oh and doesnt the architect dude say that *BLABHAHBLAHBLAHBL therefore i must be the father* .. so isnt he that father of da matrix ?

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by be_man31@19 May 2003 - 01:40
the one thing (of several) that bothers me is how smith is able to survive out of the matrix in the guys body, I&#39;m still trying to figure that one out. :unsure:
"the body cannot survive without the mind" - matrix one: morpheus to neo

thats why i think... in the matrix, smith is able to take over the body/mind of the goatee guy... thus... the guys brain now thinks hes smith, because his mind was infected, and overtaken by smith... so now outside of the matrix, the goatee guy is in essence, smith, mentally, etc. What happens to the body inside the matrix, the brain thinks is real, and acts accordingly.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by huuramis@19 May 2003 - 02:04
someone said agent smith got something from neo when neo killed smith in the last movie, does that mean neo can duplicate himself also ? . and also, someone said that guy with the goatee is agent smith ?, how did you get that idea ?. :blink: .... maybe the reason agent smith can survive in the matrix and the real world is because, like maybe hes a virus that can survive in any OS, think of the matrix and the real world as os&#39;s.. or somthing.. all this talk is making me mental&#33; WAHHHHHHHHHHH :blink: .. oh and doesnt the architect dude say that *BLABHAHBLAHBLAHBL therefore i must be the father* .. so isnt he that father of da matrix ?
the architect is the father, plain and simple, he says that.

the goatee guy, in neos dream, or foreshadowed vision, hard to tell what it was... was over taken by smith, and infected by him, in that one small, seemingly insignificant scene... and, cut himself, when the crew was off to leave zion, as he went out to meet neo, cut himself, to see if he really was human, i presume

its smith, dont worry that it isnt, it is, thats the big twist... the question is why, and how exactly...

[RedRival]

The goatee guy should&#39;ve been dead, bu he turned out to be the only survivor and behold, it&#39;s Smith. They had his coming. I think I&#39;ll enjoy a film as it is, no use talking about it so much...nice film with good graphics.
Matrix Revolutions may turn out to be really crap if you go on critiquing, thinking that someone on this board proposed a much more interesting theory than the wachoski brothers did.

[huuramis]

i didnt even like matrx 2 that much. i thought x-men 2 was more fun to watch. and more intersting.

[4play]

remember when the architect mentions there is a mother and a father of the matrix and neo says its the oracle that is the "mother" of the matrix and the architect scoffs at neo? what I think is that neo is the father and "TRINITY" is the mother. of course I could be grasping for straws but thats what I&#39;m assuming. and thats why they are destined to fall in love. remember in the first matrix when neo gets shot and trinity tells neo that the oracle told her that she would fall in love with "the one" and that they were destined to be together? maybe thats why, cuzz she&#39;s the "mother" and neo is the "father" of the matrix.


the artichtect says he is the father and then scoffs when neo calls the mother of the matrix the "oracle".
that is obviously not her name to him.

[ripley02]

all i gotta say after seeing this over the weekend is DAMN&#33;&#33; it was totally bad ass in every way but i see i wasnt the only one who was a bit confused. and i cant believe i missed the revolutions trailer. but i think i dl&#39;d it from another thread so i hope it&#39;s the same one&#33;&#33;

i think revolutions is gonna finally answer all these questions, at least we can hope it does.

[Hazzy Hazz]

ok, juz realized.......how did Smith(s) enter the backdoor without the help of the keymaker?
A normal agent cant do that, even if he was freed..............

[ripley02]

i dont know if this has any meaning to anything but when trinity dies he reaches into her body as opposed to smith where he stabs into a persons body. and neo can bring a person back to life but how? and smith can duplicate himself.

kinda the same but not really?

[Hazzy Hazz]

Did anyone know, the girl who eats the cake is the &#39;lady in the red dress&#39; from the first movie? Haha :lol:

[kildred11]

Originally posted by ripley02@19 May 2003 - 15:31
all i gotta say after seeing this over the weekend is DAMN&#33;&#33; it was totally bad ass in every way but i see i wasnt the only one who was a bit confused. and i cant believe i missed the revolutions trailer. but i think i dl&#39;d it from another thread so i hope it&#39;s the same one&#33;&#33;

i think revolutions is gonna finally answer all these questions, at least we can hope it does.
Nope the trailer after the Reloaded movie is a lot different than the one in the forums. Good to see them both. Not sure why there is already two trailers for revalutions now though.

[Echo and Bounce]

so he could be the one as well since there is speculation over neo being part human part machine.
i do not really agree with this one since the oracle set it all up to get rid of abnormalities in the matrix which would mean he has to human.

The architect said the oracle did this to 99%, Neo being "The One" may therefore be the 1% she missed&#33;

[dlingeverything]

Originally posted by ripley02@19 May 2003 - 16:14
i dont know if this has any meaning to anything but when trinity dies he reaches into her body as opposed to smith where he stabs into a persons body. and neo can bring a person back to life but how? and smith can duplicate himself.

kinda the same but not really?
Neo reaches into trinity&#39;s body and takes out the bullet (you have to look closely). She then dies but he reaches in again to get her heart pumping. Weird.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions (MAJOR SPOILERS): The hour of video throughout the "Enter the Matrix" computer game which was written/directed by the Wachowskis and filmed concurrently with the two movies, contains major spoilers for "Revolutions" and some backstory for "Reloaded". &#39;TwelveStones&#39; has gathered the key juicy info he could find during these video segments and reveals them here - be well aware though that all this includes MAJOR spoilers for Reloaded and Revolutions so don&#39;t go shooting the messenger ok. Lets begin:


"The Oracle (played by an actress named Mary Alice, due to Gloria Foster&#39;s death; I assume this means that Mary Alice will play the Oracle in Revolutions, as well) states that a "special child" who will "change the world" is the child of two programs similar to herself. If she means Neo, this would suggest that Neo is a program and thus that Zion is still part of the Matrix. The Oracle says the two programs betrayed her for their love by giving Merovingian (the French information-collector guy, played by Lambert Wilson) her termination key. The Oracle allowed this because she wanted the programs to have their special child.

A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours". Niobe volunteered to be the second ship to enter the Matrix and contact the Nebuchadnezzar because her boyfriend, Command Lock revealed to her that he had arranged for her ship, the Logos, to be the only one not to participate in the defense of Zion, in order to protect her, and she was angry. At the end of the events of Reloaded, Niobi and Ghost&#39;s hovercraft (Logos) has crashed in an uncharted underground area and they do not know how they will be found and rescued".


taken from Dark Horizons (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news.htm)

[thegroggman]

Huh...well the more and more I read all of this stuff. The more and more it seems to be leaning towards a double matrix theory. And if the Oracle does mean Neo...well than that just about puts the nail in the coffin...

[ClubDiggler]

Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@15 May 2003 - 06:24


Okay, now heres my thoughts.

1. The ending first and foremost. Who was that guy? Across the way from neo?

2. How the hell did neo sense the machines, and seemingly stop them at the end, in the "real world"?
I certainly agree with your thought.

1. That was definetly Smith.

2. I think Neo stop those machines because they are still conected to the matrix. I
think they never got out. I think in the first movie they broke from one matrix world to
another. So they are closer to getting out. The question is besides "what is the Matrix"
How manu subworlds has the matix designed for everyone. I think Neo was able to stop
those machines because he is still in the virtual world therefore having unlimited power.

I hope of course that the third movie will tie everything together. B)

[scruge]

Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@20 May 2003 - 00:10

A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours".
I think this hobo is the man Neo sees being escorted out of the restuarant as they arrive to meet the Frenchman.

[tyk]

Matrix within matrix... hmm.... very interesting. But I&#39;m more interested in the French guy.

1) He was introduced by Oracle to Neo in the park b4 the infamous &#39;I need more&#39; Smiths and Neo fight. Oracle hinted that he was an old program and mentioned the sentance &#39;What does a person in power wants? More power&#39;.

2) When Neo & gangs met up with him in the restuarant, he question Neo &#39;do u know why u r here?&#39; and he concluded by saying &#39;U r here because u were told to do so&#39;. He later demostrate his programming skill in that special cake served to the lady (someone mentioned she is the Lady In Red, I didn&#39;t even aware).

3) His wife bring Neo & gangs to the washroom and propose a kiss from Neo in exchange for the key maker. &#39;He was like u when we first came here&#39; she said.

4) When Neo defeated all his bodyguards (his protectors were sent to recapture key maker), the French guy mentioned &#39;I&#39;d survive the previous 5 attack&#39; (not the exact words though) b4 he turned and fleet.

Q: What role does he play in the matrix?

No doubt he is one of the VIP (very important program). He has 2 protectors (the twins), and even Oracle mentioned he is a man in power. He is very much like the Oracle, he emphasize &#39;cause and effect&#39; while she focus on &#39;choice&#39;; they both specialise in human behaviour and always experimenting & observing human reaction (their approach are different). They are very human (the caring, kind and wise Oracle. The evil and power hunger French), is this a programming fault when AI come too close in contact with human?

Q: What&#39;s with the power thing?

He can bend rules, or in his context change the programming code of object (a normal cake becomes a sexual stimulant). What is the power he seek after? Doing whatever he wants? Taking over matrix? Reforming the matrix world?

Q: Is he The One as propose by others?

1st approach - Yes he is.
He had to be the 1st generation as he mentioned &#39;I&#39;d survive the previous 5 attack&#39;. What I meant is he had to fight against his conscience and eventually he give in to his evil part. But the Architect did mentioned all previous The One choose to restart matrix and became part of the rebuilding process. Can it be a pact is made between him and the Architect. The Architect may paint him a picture or revealing the whole truth to him which is so depressing that The One had to admit the continuing of matrix is the only way for human survival. The Architect may then propose the rebuilding process, asking The One to join him in the continuation of human-machine survival. Architect may offer him a vital role in the process, one that is in search of human behaviour or essence of human emotion. In exchange, The One will agree to merge with the matrix giving his unique codes he carried in his body for Architect to study.

He and his wife resemble Neo and Trinity, which account for his wife sentence in the washroom. So why he ended up as more-or-less a bad guy? Power corrupts, absolute power corrupt absolutely? Why he kept the key maker? He do not want more fallen angels to emerge? Side-track abit, by this school of thoughts, Oracle can be considered one of the fallen angels or previous The One.

2nd approach - No he isn&#39;t.
He is a program and remains a program. The sentence &#39;I&#39;d survived the previous 5 attack&#39; atates very clearly he is the target of The Ones, maybe his responsibility is to safeguard the passage to the source (initially). His wife&#39;s sentence in the washroom just indicate he may be a program to simulate human in order to study and better understand human behaviour and emotions. He chose one of the human and reveal the truth to her and experiencing the most crucial emotion and feeling of human - Love. As he get more involve with human, he was corrupted, he become addicted to power and sex. But again, why matrix given him that much control? Why didn&#39;t agents being sent to &#39;delete&#39; him? Why he didn&#39;t re-programme his wife to be the most ideal wife in the world?

This can keep going, and his twins protectors interests me so much that I like to address them seperately, next time maybe.

[thegroggman]

Man o man...tyk...your really bringing it to the table. Youve posted more in your first two than most do in there first 50. Keep up the good work man, Im going to reread this tommorow morning when I dont have to hold my eyelids open.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Just a couple of thoughts on a few points I saw raised, and some of my own:

1) The rave/party/celebration/sex scene: The party was ok, but went on too long. How long do we need to look at people jumping up and down and groping each other in slow motion? The sex scene was totally gratuitous... It was 6 months since the end of the first movie, and the Neb has obviously been to Zion at least once since then. Everyone (the movie-goers) knew Neo and Trinity were doing the nasty even without it being said. Again, it was way too long.

2) Bane (the guy Smith infected) cutting his hand: I can&#39;t believe how much people are reading into this scene. Smith was going to assassinate Neo in real world, that&#39;s all, but the kid ruined it by calling out for Neo to wait up and causing everyone to turn around. The element of surprise was gone, so he had nothing to do but wish Neo luck. I can&#39;t be sure why he was cutting his hand, but the more I think about it, he did it because he (Smith) could; because he was human.

3) The Merovingian: No, he wasn&#39;t one of "the One"s... His statement of "I&#39;ve survived the previous Neo&#39;s, and I&#39;ll survive you" or some-such was more like saying "No matter what you do, I&#39;ll still be here. I&#39;m that bad-ass." When Neo stops all those bullets and he says, "So, you&#39;ve got some skill"; that was a "I&#39;m going to make a witty remark to hide the fact that I&#39;m wetting my pants right now."

4) Neo&#39;s chat with The Architect: A friend of mine came up with the idea that all those TVs with all those Neo&#39;s, were actually all of his possible reactions (calculated by the Matrix, maybe?). You&#39;ll notice that at least twice, they all start shouting and stuff, and the camera zooms in on one of the TVs, possibly representing the reaction the "real" Neo had.

Hmm... I know there&#39;s more...

Oh well. Now, something a bit more general:

1) Birth in the Matrix: Do the "parents" decide to have a child, and the machines create a human child in the real world, or is it the other way around; do the machines create a child, and then its birth is programmed into the Matrix?

[maxwell_murder]

i justkinda skipped all of your coments past page 3 too lazy, so forgive me if this has already been stated these are some of my speculations,

1) the matrix sorta "rewinds" each time and thats how there were 5 neos/matrix&#39;s
2)the archetect said basically said to neo humans can make thier own choices making them superior to the machnes , and he expected neo to choose the door he didnt.the whole movie to me has a theme based on choices
3) the oracal knew smith would show up there to prepare neo and show him what smith had become
4)the twins are ghost programs that were supposed to be deleted, mervo... wife was a vampire and the guy she shot wasa werewolf, which was explained inteh movie
5)i wish i could remember what else i was gonna type but ill elaborate on these theorys later too tired 430 am...
6)bottom line the wachowski&#39;s make everything happen fora reason so no matter what even how subtle somthing seems it will play a part later, dont over rule any theory with evidance unless it was clearly rejected by somthing stated in the movie

thats it for now sooooooooo tired and i still cant find a working copy of this damn movie&#33;

[Hazzy Hazz]

I had just read the the transcript between Neo and Architect guy..........And after a few reads i finally understand the whole movie&#33;&#33;&#33; Woo hoo&#33;&#33;

Neo & Architect talk (http://www.geocities.com/clark_kent0002/index.htm)

It certainly explains its not a matrix in a matrix thingy thats got ever1 believing it.......................

[dlingeverything]

excellent link hazzy hazz.
After reading it, I understand it a little better
and get a little more insight to what the architect
is saying.

It also definitely proves that zion is real and not
another matrix (the matrix in a matrix thing is, in my
opinion, pretty stupid and corny to be in the next movie)
:lol:

[scruge]

Originally posted by Hazzy Hazz@20 May 2003 - 13:19
I had just read the the transcript between Neo and Architect guy..........And after a few reads i finally understand the whole movie&#33;&#33;&#33; Woo hoo&#33;&#33;


The script was a great read..... But it only shows the movie isn&#39;t consistent and doesn&#39;t follow a logical thought process, yielding a FANTASY classification.

1. If the machines already know which door Neo is taking, wouldn&#39;t they have a backup plan? Surely they aren&#39;t going to let their power source die for a lousy 1% improvement in crop yields. They can&#39;t be that stupid.
2. Why are the machines hell bent on 100% crop yields? This is illogical. Only a human would have the arrogances to believe 100% was possible. A super smart computer would know that there are forces (As Frenchy put it "cause and effect, action... reaction".) it couldn&#39;t control.
3. The thing I find very puzzling is why the machines elected to alter the Matrix to increase crop yields verses other means. Genetic alterations, selective breeding and others.

Who knows, maybe Peter Pan and Tinker Bell will save the day&#33;

[4play]

2. Why are the machines hell bent on 100% crop yields? This is illogical. Only a human would have the arrogances to believe 100% was possible. A super smart computer would know that there are forces (As Frenchy put it "cause and effect, action... reaction".) it couldn&#39;t control.


machines are built on logic that is why they believe that 100 % is possible. to them it is only bad programming that leads to the 1%. they are kinda debugging the matrix still.

[scruge]

Originally posted by 4play@20 May 2003 - 17:06

machines are built on logic that is why they believe that 100 % is possible. to them it is only bad programming that leads to the 1%. they are kinda debugging the matrix still.
I believe your logic is flawed, machines would follow all the rules and laws of nature and would be aware that 100% was impossible. (see Gaussian distribution / Normal Curve) Humans filter the rules and laws of nature to suit there desires..... HOPE is a prime example. Machines would never consider HOPE as a possible option.

Hope is driven by man&#39;s inability to control his emotions which cloud his logical thought processes through weak memories of the rules.
Meaning, man has difficulty remembering evey little detail about the world around him including the laws of nature.
Plus man has to contend with emotion, a very powerful influence on the thought process.
So when you mix emotion and poor memory you come up with HOPE.

Neither of which a machine would have to contend with.

[{I}{K}{E}]

MATRIX HIDDEN EXTRA&#39;S:

Go to: http://www.matrixmovie.com/
-Click on: &#39;Enter High Bandwidth&#39;
-Click the yellow round thing on the upper right
-Click twice on the square next to &#39;Low bandwidth&#39;
-Click &#39;next to &#39;Access panel 3&#39;

Now you can HACK THE MATRIX SECRETS.

This are the codes:

11011011 3d view nebuchadnezzar
10110110 Bonus clip Stunt coordinator
00011000 Bonus clip Concept Illustrator
10000001 Previous matrix website
11101001 Trinity concept art
11010100 Animatrix Desktop Art
01101111 Hexadecimal menu

[superduperman]

both topics on the revelation of a matrix within the matrix and trinity being an agent will be covered in the third installment.

[scruge]

Originally posted by Hazzy Hazz@20 May 2003 - 13:19
I had just read the the transcript between Neo and Architect guy..........And after a few reads i finally understand the whole movie&#33;&#33;&#33; Woo hoo&#33;&#33;

Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.


I don&#39;t believe this proves Zion is reality. Zion could possibly be an independent matrix, isolated to protect the master matrix. Its like a holding cell until the architect and his team can figure a way to keep them happy and merge them back into the master matrix.

Something rather confussing the architect did say was "99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level."
It sounds like he&#39;s saying it didn&#39;t matter whether the individual was (unconscious/conscious) in or out of the Matrix 1% refused the program.

Wouldn&#39;t it make sense to keep them contained in an isolated matrix until you have a solution...?

[neevakee]

Originally posted by scruge+20 May 2003 - 14:17--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (scruge @ 20 May 2003 - 14:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Hazzy Hazz@20 May 2003 - 13:19
I had just read the the transcript between Neo and Architect guy..........And after a few reads i finally understand the whole movie&#33;&#33;&#33; Woo hoo&#33;&#33;

Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.


I don&#39;t believe this proves Zion is reality. Zion could possibly be an independent matrix, isolated to protect the master matrix. Its like a holding cell until the architect and his team can figure a way to keep them happy and merge them back into the master matrix.

Something rather confussing the architect did say was "99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level."
It sounds like he&#39;s saying it didn&#39;t matter whether the individual was (unconscious/conscious) in or out of the Matrix 1% refused the program.

Wouldn&#39;t it make sense to keep them contained in an isolated matrix until you have a solution...? [/b][/quote]
Maybe it is not that the 1% was the one par say, but they were people like morpheus or trinity and they could be taken out of the matrix and that is why they wouldn&#39;t turn to agents. Now if that is true then Neo is part of the one precent, but he rejected the program entirely and ther for is able to see it as just a program. The only reason why he didn&#39;t orginally see it this way is that he was confirable in the matrix and didn&#39;t need to see the true matrix. Once morpheus removed him he was forced to see this and came to recognize it.

[ripley02]

i dont know if anyone else has any thoughts like this but, when revolutions comes out and is supposed to answer all these questions about "what is the matrix". it would be funny when come to find out that the answer wont be half as complicated as most people make it out to be&#33;

[soopaman]

Watched Matrix:Reloaded the other day and having thought about it have decided that I didn&#39;t like it as much as the first film. The sequences within the Matrix were excellant but what the fuck was going on with the "Rave in Ewok Village" section. What a crock of shit&#33;&#33; The producers must have been kicking themselves when the first movie was such a hit, Reeves is so wooden it&#39;s painful to watch him sometimes. Fishburne hammed it up a bit too much but I&#39;ll forgive him for the "Truck-Fight". In fact the whole "Freeway" sequence was breathtaking&#33;&#33; Also the way in which the video-game fills in the plot gaps is good. Game is a bit short and too easy though&#33;&#33; I&#39;m undecided whether there is a Matrix within a Matrix as discussed earlier in the thread. I&#39;ll have to see it again, the Architect section posed more questions than it answered. Overall I&#39;d give it 8 out of 10. :D

Monica Bellucci made me "pitch a tent". :lol: B) :lol:

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by scruge@20 May 2003 - 15:17
It sounds like he&#39;s saying it didn&#39;t matter whether the individual was (unconscious/conscious) in or out of the Matrix 1% refused the program.

Wouldn&#39;t it make sense to keep them contained in an isolated matrix until you have a solution...?
Excellent point&#33; We should all think on that one...

they would have to keep the variants happy somewhere would they not? that would make perfect sense...

[scruge]

Originally posted by ripley02@20 May 2003 - 23:53
i dont know if anyone else has any thoughts like this but, when revolutions comes out and is supposed to answer all these questions about "what is the matrix". it would be funny when come to find out that the answer wont be half as complicated as most people make it out to be&#33;
But in the mean time its kinda fun thinking about where the movie may go. Its a good exercise for the brain.

[Alucard1475]

Some questions,

- Why did Oracle in "Matrix 1" says Neo was not the ONE, but she, like the Architect, is supposed to be the smartest program around and to know all of the stuff. Still, Neo is the only one that can do the cool stuff like flying and stopping bullets.

- What about the Agents? Where do they come from? Are they supposed to be antiviruses created by the Architect to stop anyone how kinda enters the Matrix with knowing that in reality this is not the real world?

- The two white guys and the french guy, do they only exist in the Matrix or is there a place for them too hook into the Matrix like Neo, Morpheus etc. does.

- How come the chineese guy who protects the Oracle was not seen in Matrix 1?

- How did Smith got into that corridor of infinite doors?

- When Neo flys through that door with Morpheus into that small room with only the other door that led to the architect, what if he had some explosive and detonated one of the walls in the background, whare would he exit? Would he create some kinda of crack in the matrix.

Morpheus was still in that room with the dead key-maker, on about the end they show Morpheus in the ship not connected to the matrix, how did he got out of the matrix? How did he got out of that room? Was it something like opening the door, which the key-maker closed, and he would be on some other place where he could find a phone to exit the matrix. I don&#39;t think he could be located i that room. Why don&#39;t they use mobiles to enter, exit the matrix or don&#39;t they have them?

- In the "real world" ther must be some centre which controls every human connected to the matrix. I would like to see something like this in Revolutions.

You may think I&#39;ve got so many stupid questions, but I&#39;m really interested in every detail.
Cheers.

[dlingeverything]

1)I dont think you really got a grasp of the 1st matrix. The Oracle sadi that Neo wasnt the One on purpose even though she knew he was the one. She did this because if Neo believed he was the "one" he would not go and save morpheus. Going to save Morpheus brought his true powers out (esp. when fighting smith in subway). Therefore, if the oracle said he wud be the "one" he wouldnt actually be the "one".

2)I guess you could call the agents. Anti-viruses. They stop anything that threatens the matrix.

3)The French Guy and the Twins (this is still being debated) are seemingly programs in the matrix and not humans connected to the matrix.

4)No one knew the Matrix was gona be such a success. The protector probably wasnt thought of/ not needed for the first movie.

5)I have no idea, i am wondering this myself since Smith is no longer an Agent.

6)No idea what you are talking about

7)This whole getting out of the matrix thing is also being discussed. they never showed Neo/Morpheus/Trinity getting out of the Matrix although they showed Link. (However they could still be in the matrix and Link could just be a program hmmmm).
They probably need a direct line to get out of the matrix and cant use mobiles. It would also be too easy if they could just use a cell phone or something.

8)This would be interesting

[slick nick]

The thing is this though, in the first matrix Morpheous tells neo that the first "one" remade the matrix etc and was propechisied to return. I take that as this first one was able to free himself at least from the program in the sense they knew it was a crock and got others together so when they were spit out of the matrix they built zion. but then again that sounds off because once the things that removed neo took them out they wouldn&#39;t be able to swim etc due to atrophied limbs from non-use. So my next conclusion then is that after the previous matrix failures due to program rejection the machines under the the oracles(she&#39;s studied human emotion etc. and can calculate response being a program under a given set of circumstances based on this knowledge i.e neo knocking over the vase, or his uncertainty and saying he wasn&#39;t the one) thought I&#39;d be best to create a city like Zion for them to flee into. But damn it they&#39;d still have to take people out like the architect was going to have neo pick to rebuild zion. But that being the case as the architect said with neo having to pick thirteen out of the matrix to rebuild it then that means the machines could&#39;ve done this themselves the first time they decided to build a zion and wiped the memory of the matrix actually putting the people in zion out of the founders of zions mind. that would mean it&#39;s not another matrix but a sort of failsafe for the program which kept lets say "corrupt" files from mucking up the system and figuring out to to truely defeat the enemy. Hmmm. As for neo stopping the squiggly&#39;s I&#39;m thinking that the "ones" take on program attributes and the hardware the still posess which is in interaction with the matrix software can sense and affect other matrix programs on matrix software possessee&#39;s. An example of programs being able to sense other programs was the Oracles protector sensing former agent Smith and hustling her out of there for neo to fight or the Dangerous French guy program wife knowing that the chick at the table was blowing the French guy when he went to the bathroom. But once again while language said in reference to rogue programs lead me to believe the twin dreadlockred programs and the dangerous program were holding the keymaker in quarintine but later on the freeway decided to delete him in the agent own words which the keymaker knew was his fate but then why was he bleeding when shot? Could the matrix give older programs like this "keygenerator" human like quailities for easier deletion? Look how the "mother" of the matrix needs to be protected from other programs. I mean "silver bullets" to kill that old program guarding the keymaker? Hmm I&#39;ll iron this out further at some point.

I&#39;ll answer some questions now:

1. She said he was not the one because he didn&#39;t believe in himself from how he was acting and her being well versed in human behavior knows what to say to get a person or processor if you will to do it&#39;s job. The sitution shwe saw coming would force him to believe in himself asides his oldness when being freed and surviving it mentally.

2. The twin brothers and the French guy as well as hs wife and the dudes that attacked neo in that hall as Mor and trin got away with the keymaker are programs. The Oracle told neo a dangerous program was holding the keymaker and the French guy that program told neo the fortune tellers days were numbered so I think he&#39;s a program too to know of her faced other ones which would mean he&#39;s been around across the times which would have to be decades if not centuries zion was built and destroyed several times.

3. different circumstances this time. Perhaps the Oracle is taking on Rogue program in need of deletion characteristics and needs destroying for betraying her programming objective and becoming a ""beliver" as she says in neo.

4. Smith has virus characterictics with the duplication and can sense neo as he said so he probably can see these areas in the matrix program to get into them.

5. If he detonated something it wouldn&#39;t have mattered. Blowing up the whole building didn&#39;t destroy the matrix after he left the Architect.

6. morpheus left the room at the same time Neo went to see the architect. Remember the keymaker says to morpheus "that door will lead you out or home" and to neo you know which door to go to to get to the source.

7. I explained how he got out which answers this question also but to add they need a hardline wired into the matrix which a mobile or cell phone isn&#39;t.

[scruge]

I read an interesting point made by someone on another forum.

Remember when Smith assimulates the goatee guy early in the movie. If you recall they had a little computer device (memory chip) they had recieved from the Oracle. The first guy to exit the matrix took it with him and later gave it to Neo in Zion.

How in the world did he transport the device out of the matrix????

[slick nick]

Originally posted by scruge@21 May 2003 - 04:16
Remember when Smith assimulates the goat-t guy early in the movie. If you recall they had a little computer device (memory chip) they had recieved from the Oracle. The first guy to exit the matrix took it with him and later gave it to Neo in Zion.

How in the world did he transport the device out of the matrix????
Who had the device? Neo and crew or goatee dude? I remember i saw that guy with a knife but it looked like he only shook his hand. i&#39;m downloading a copy right now. I&#39;ll get back to you on this.

[scruge]

Originally posted by slick nick+21 May 2003 - 04:25--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slick nick @ 21 May 2003 - 04:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--scruge@21 May 2003 - 04:16
Remember when Smith assimulates the goat-t guy early in the movie. If you recall they had a little computer device (memory chip) they had recieved from the Oracle. The first guy to exit the matrix took it with him and later gave it to Neo in Zion.&nbsp;

How in the world did he transport the device out of the matrix????
Who had the device? Neo and crew or goatee dude? I remember i saw that guy with a knife but it looked like he only shook his hand. i&#39;m downloading a copy right now. I&#39;ll get back to you on this. [/b][/quote]
At the very begining of the movie when you see the two guys drop down through the skylite to get away from Smith. The goatee guy hands his partner the device and says you go first. The guy exits the matrix and then Smith drops down and assimulate the goatee guy before he exits. The partner carring the device out of the matrix, later in the movie gives the device to Neo while in Zion.

[Alucard1475]

At first, thanks for the early responses to the questions I asked.

What is the Oracle? I know that she is a really smart program, but if the Architect created the matrix and everything else, so what is then the Oracle&#39;s purpose. Why was she created by the Architect too. Did the Architect took in consideration that if somebody could have freed himself out of the matrix that he/she could get advice from the Oracle? Didn&#39;t the Architect considder that Oracle&#39;s creation is the most important part of the matrix and that she could be the key to everybody, i.e. the french guy, the key-maker and even to himself.

[scruge]

Originally posted by Alucard1475@21 May 2003 - 04:56
At first, thanks for the early responses to the questions I asked.

What is the Oracle? I know that she is a really smart program, but if the Architect created the matrix and everything else, so what is then the Oracle&#39;s purpose. Why was she created by the Architect too. Did the Architect took in consideration that if somebody could have freed himself out of the matrix that he/she could get advice from the Oracle? Didn&#39;t the Architect considder that Oracle&#39;s creation is the most important part of the matrix and that she could be the key to everybody, i.e. the french guy, the key-maker and even to himself.
There is a lot of debate regarding the role of the Oracle.

I think she is an anomaly, a program gone good.
I think her purpose in the earlier iterations of the matrix was to help counsel &#39;the one&#39; , and to keep him on track.
I believe now she is in favor of releasing the humans from the matrix which has now made her an enemy. She now has a body guard and meetings are in different places. The Frenchman even mentions her days are numbered, as if to say we&#39;re closing in on her.

[kildred11]

I stated this earlier as a thought and I still can&#39;t comprehend why the machines would destroy Zion and rebuild it. I mean what is hte point? It makes no sense to destroy something that you don&#39;t want just to rebuild it. The humans are trying to destroy the machines. The machines aren&#39;t going to tell Neo the truth. They will lie to him to confince them they are doing otherwise. Seems like a waste of resources to rebuild a real world over and over. Makes more sense if Zion was a Virtual Reality made to see how the humans could fight back. And if they have destroyed and rebuilt Zion in a real world they would know how to get their the quick way. They wouldn&#39;t have to bore.

[slick nick]

Originally posted by kildred11@21 May 2003 - 06:30
I stated this earlier as a thought and I still can&#39;t comprehend why the machines would destroy Zion and rebuild it. I mean what is hte point? It makes no sense to destroy something that you don&#39;t want just to rebuild it. The humans are trying to destroy the machines. The machines aren&#39;t going to tell Neo the truth. They will lie to him to confince them they are doing otherwise. Seems like a waste of resources to rebuild a real world over and over. Makes more sense if Zion was a Virtual Reality made to see how the humans could fight back. And if they have destroyed and rebuilt Zion in a real world they would know how to get their the quick way. They wouldn&#39;t have to bore.
I think it&#39;s like they said. On a subconscious level people will know something isn&#39;t right. Giving them hope through having a zion occupies them in the mean while until things reach a critical point when the anomaly makes his way to the architect. They aren&#39;t keeping it because they want it but for the purpose it serves which is a place for the corrupted. The littlest thing which doesn&#39;t ring true like the squigglies quickly reaching Zion would tip people off that they made zion and be the subconscious thing that would mess up the program again.

On another note i just watched that scene and indeed the two guys have a paper or envelope when re-entering zion that I think is delivered to neo later from the oracle. te only thing is though they didn&#39;t say who they got it from before Smith assimilated that dude. I think mjust like skills and weapons can be downloaded into the matrix things can be brought out with people to be converted into disc for data retrieval by the intended like neo.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

***SPOILER***

Do not bitch about this ruining anything. You have been forewarned.

"Zion is basically the Recycle Bin. Zion was destroyed six times before, because that is what the one was written in for. As the architect said, 99% of people accept the Matrix without question. The Oracle is software written to monitor, who allows the matrix to be executed upon them and to help extradite the removal of the others, who do NOT accept, to Zion through "prophecy". Prophecy that is scripture written around the knowledge of who would be the next One. She got the humans to buy it, through prophetic manipulation of her followers including Morpheus. Once too many people fill up Zion, they have to empty the bin and start over. Why do they keep allowing Zion to be rebuilt and destroyed? Simple. The Matrix is not a closed system. People who have compromised the integrity of it by not accepting the internal programming are not welcome entities. If not taken out by agents, they can merely unplug themselves and retreat to a hole, an "anthole" if you will several hundred miles below the crust of the Earth, to be wiped away every so often. If you have variables in an array that compromise it&#39;s validity, it is preferable to pop themm off of the stack than to keep them in. And when Zion hits "critical mass", that is when the "One" is called back into the main OS to shut it down. One can not operate new software on a server without rebooting, which is Neo&#39;s simple task. He is the reset button. He allows the upgraded Matrix script (Revision Number 7, now) to go into effect, hopefully not being subject to an anomaly, a bug, which is what Neo is, albeit a bug intentionally put into the system to allow for the unexpected failure in groups of humans attached to the Matrix. I believe Agent Smith is the deciding variable. I think with Neo crossing with him, Neo has acquired a bit of him, and vice versa, and I think Agent Smith is the key to ending the cyclke, once and for all."

SPECIAL THANKS TO BLACKLODGE77 FOR COMPILING THAT EXPLANATION.

This comment was edited at 05/18/2003 1:41 AM

from a counter strike forum i visit... good explanations/opinions there....

[kaizix]

i can&#39;t sit here and read 13 pages worth of theories. but has anyone mentioned the theory about a matrix inside a matrix? i&#39;m just curious as to peoples thoughts on that.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

heres the whole architect script, as it is pretty important to this discussion...

ARCHITECT TRANSCRIPT:

Architect: Hello, Neo.

Neo: Who are you?

Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I have been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent in the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden deciduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably here.

Neo: You haven&#39;t answered my question.

Architect: Quite right. Interesting, that was quicker than the others.

Neo: Others? (What others? How many? Answer me.)

Architect: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next. In which case this is the sixth version.

Neo: Then there are only two possible explanations, either no one told me, or no one knows.

Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.

Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo: The Oracle.

Architect: Please. As I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answer functioned it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left
unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.
Neo: This is about Zion.

Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo: Bullshit.

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it. The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix. Which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire
human race.

Neo: You won&#39;t let it happen, you can&#39;t. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way your experience is far more specific, vis-a-vis love.

Neo: Trinity.

Architect: Apropo. She entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo: No.

Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors, the door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion, the door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do don&#39;t we? Already I can see the chain reaction the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple
and obvious truth: she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don&#39;t meet again.

Architect: We won&#39;t.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by kaizix@21 May 2003 - 01:20
i can&#39;t sit here and read 13 pages worth of theories. but has anyone mentioned the theory about a matrix inside a matrix? i&#39;m just curious as to peoples thoughts on that.
if you did, you would know the answer to that, lol...

but we are seemingly leaning toward zion being almost a 2nd matrix, i think... but we dont know for sure... at least the zion, or real world we see at the end of reloaded, being a 2nd matrix.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

another summary explanation, i like this one too, seems to fit close to my thoughts on the whole movie, etc.


Another Explanation (by jw010)

"Basically the machines which represented by the ARCHITECH wrote the Matrix program in order to keep people (their crop) alive in sort of a dream state. (the presumption is that human can&#39;t live on without some sort of brain activity.) the first version written was a perfect world (mathetically perfect according to the Arch.) but was rejected by humans, because of the &#39;flaws&#39; in human thinking/behavior, and creats too many &#39;anomalies&#39;. and to improve the Matrix, two other programs was written/created, one was THE ORACLE, and the other one was THE ONE. they both work for THE MACHINE. the ORACLE, which the Arch. refers to as &#39;the mother of Matrix&#39;, her responsibility is to help humans be more acceptable to the Matrix. The ONE, i believe, is a program &#39;hardwired&#39; into a real human being&#39;s brain. in this case, Neo. he should be a 1/2 human 1/2 program.

According to the Arch., the &#39;anomalies&#39; (the human who rejects the Matrix) can cause the Matrix to crash. therefore the Machine build a place called ZION (that&#39;s my guessing), which is simply a place to hold the anomalies. (i believe ZION is a real place built by the Machine, instead of another layer of Matrix which many ppl on this board suggested.) the responsiblity of THE ONE is to &#39;report back&#39; to the SOURCE about the anomalies, and select 20 NEW human anomalies from THE MATRIX (not from Zion, many people missted that point) to go back to ZION to rebuild, after it&#39;s destroyed by the Machine (my guessing is the machine/sentinals kills everyone in Zion, but won&#39;t physically destroy the infraustructure). that&#39;s where the ONE ends&#33;&#33;&#33; and a new version of Matrix then it&#39;s loaded and the whole cycle starts again. remember what the Oracle told Neo in the courtyard,&#39;all programs go back to the Source when they are deleted, that&#39;s where the path of the ONE ends....&#39;. now let&#39;s talk about Neo. as i said, i believe he&#39;s 1/2 program 1/2 human. cuz the Arch. said something about him still retain many feelings/characteristics of a human, but there were 5 VERSIONS of the ONE before him, which suggest that Neo is a real human, but his mind is written by the Machine as the ONE. according to the Arch., all his 5 predecessors were detached from human emotions and were all making the &#39;right&#39; choices, logically and mathematically, and he expected Neo to make the same kind of choices. but this time Neo made decision out of the machine&#39;s expectation, because he was MORE HUMAN then his predecessors. he has more HOPE this time, which is a flaw according to the Machine. therefore instead of going into the RIGHT door, which he&#39;ll return to the Souce and replug back to the machine, and pick 20 new humans to rebuild Zion, he chosed to go into the LEFT door. according to the machine, the consequnce of that is that he&#39;ll be destroyed together with Zion, and there will be no THE ONE to wake up 20 new humans to rebuild Zion, hence all the anomalies in the Matrix will not be &#39;rescued&#39; (more like filtered out), and they will cause the Matrix to crash and kill every human being that&#39;s plugged into the Matrix, and that will be the end of humanity. the &#39;Prophecy&#39; which Mopheus believes in so much from the Oracle, is the end of the war, but not in the sense that Mophuers would like it to be, which is tht humans defeat the machine through the ONE. the end of the war that Oracle means is the destroy of Zion and another version (a better version) of Matrix reloads which will produce less # of anomalies. that&#39;s why Neo told Mopheus the Prophecy is a LIE. well this is just my 2c of what&#39;s going on."

Have fun. Im tired.

Another theory, in the face of the previous one...

I believe that perhaps the whole "Architect" thing was just another form of control. I think it was all made up by the matrix to trick Neo into thinking that they would fail and that he doesn&#39;t have as much power as he really has, thereby controlling him. I think that Morpheus was right when he says "I dont believe that" in response to Neo telling him that they will fall. If you think about it, it fits the theme of the matrix quite nicely, in that control is everything, so it would make sense that the architect is just another way to control Neo.

read more of my fellow counter strikers opinions here... on a gotfrag thread (http://www.gotfrag.com/?node=forum&id=5545&x=)

[thegroggman]

Man Schmiggy, youve really done your homework on this. Keep up the good work; this is easily the best damn thread in the forums right now. :D

[Schmiggy_JK23]

thx.... while i wouldnt consider myself a matrix uber fan geek, i like the stuff... but at the end of reloaded, i knew there was so much to talk about, and possibilities, and this place is a perfect place to do just that.

and with so much stupid banter on this thread, bout time we liven it up some more with some intellectual/philisophical questions, of a movie most of us enjoyed, :)

[maxwell_murder]

This information is from the 19th , not sure if you all know about it yet but its not too surprising now is it?


As expected by many, The Matrix Reloaded shattered a number of records this weekend. The sequel came in at #1 at the U.S. box office, with &#036;91.8 million over the weekend and &#036;134 million since its opening Wednesday night. Some of the records the film broke include: biggest opening by an R-rated film (previously held by Hannibal at &#036;58 million); biggest first four days of release (besting Spider-Man&#39;s &#036;125.9 million); largest preview gross, for Wednesday night&#39;s showings starting at 10 PM, coming in around &#036;5 million; the biggest Thursday opening of all time (shooting past Star Wars: Episode II); and Warner Brothers&#39; best 3-day opening (their previous best was Harry Potter and the Sorcerer&#39;s Stone, at &#036;90.3 million).&nbsp; - IGN

[jimmyjimjames]

THE OFFICIAL MATRIX RELOADED ON KAZAA LITE IS:

[pio]matrix.reloaded.(esoteric).ts.divx.(1of2) - 127 362 kb
[pio]matrix.reloaded.(esoteric).ts.divx.(2of2) - 137 890 kb

PLEASE START DOWNLOADING, WE NEED SHARERS

THESE FILES ARE NOT FAKES&#33; THEY ARE GOOD QUALITY~&#33;&#33;&#33;

[scruge]

Ok, I think I like the "Zion=Recycle Bin" theory. It answers most of my questions about the Matrix itself and makes sense.

Are there any thoughts about who is really in control outside the Matrix (machine world), man or machine?

I ask this question because I find it difficult to understand why the machines feel compelled to appease the 1% that reject the programing. It seems the machines would just chop them up and recycle them as food for the other 99%. Based on this fact I believe that humans are really in control.

Another puzzling question, what are the machines doing in reality? Do they live in little houses? Do they go to work everyday? Do they have a society? Are they explorers and have a space program, like NASA? What purpose do the machines feel they serve in the real world?

[tyk]

Alot of theories on Zion being a Recycle Bin, qurantine centre, isolation place for anomalies (human who rejects the matrix, accounted for 1%).

Lets start from the beginning. Like all system, there must have fix sets of rules. Each individual within the system has to comply with the rules and there will be no doubt monitoring system to ensure that. Take for example, all members/guests from this forum must follow certain rules, if one of the member abuse the rules, the moderators will go after him, worst come to worst ban him from the forum. All unplugged individuals in the matrix are in fact human in some life-supporting tanks in real life. Agents in certain sense can be considering as monitoring system. They go after Neo when being tip off by the traitor (forget his name), arrested him in his office, giving him warning, and being force (not too appropriate choice of word) to take drastic measure by implanting tracking system in Neo&#39;s body when he refuse to heed their warning/accept their offer. In this context, lets assume the agents are taking up monitoring work.

When Neo met up with Morpheus and make his choice by taking the red pill, he wake up from the life-supporting tank and being cast down the draining system (Theres this sentinels-like thing looking at Neo b4 he was drained away). How does a human being unplugged from the system? The &#39;natural way&#39; would be when the individual was dead inside the matrix. His dead body in the life-supporting tank will then be drained to a processing centre to be processed as the nutrient for other living unplugged beings. Another possible way is when the individual realised his living world is in fact virtual reality (not proven in the 2 movies). So, how does Neo being unplugged? Does the red pill he took is like the special programmed cake to serve special purpose, like trick the matrix into thinking Neo is dead in the matrix which in fact he is not, thereby releasing him from the life-support unit and drain him to the processing pool where he was being picked up by Morpheus?

So lets assume the only possible way for matrix to &#39;ban&#39; individual who violet the rules of the system/matrix is by killing him (through agents).

Please bear with me, I&#39;ll took another approach to look at the quarantine/isolation isssue. When Malaysia / England / Hong Kong discoverd their pigs / cows / chickens were infected by contagious disease, all infected and suspected animals were slaughted or killed to prevent further outbreak. However, the recent world-wide outbreak of SARS forced governments to issue home qurantine order to suspected individuals. Human are qurantine while animals are killed. When we received / downloaded files that are infected by virus, our Antivirus software inform us and present to us a choice to quarantine the file or delete it if the virus cannot be cleared. Why not delete the file straight? As the file may be important to the user. In other words, we used quarantine / isolation in times of outbreak/crisis only when the subject is inexpendable or too important.

Now back to Matrix. Is human important to the machine? Definitely, human are their source of power. But are human that important that require special attention to quarantine / isolate them when some of them becomes anomalies? Accounting to Architect, the answer is no. He go even the way to express the extinct of human (lost of major power source) is a cost the machine are prepare to bear when situation required it. Of course, he may say that to confuse / threaten Neo, but no doubt I don&#39;t understand the rationale behind the concept of Zion being a quarantine / isolation / confine centre for the 1% anomalies. Who is the biggest anomalies in the matrix? Neo , no doubt. Does Neo cause catastrophe effect on the matrix? Apparently not, in fact he is a regular in the matrix, who keep abusing the system and performing forbidden superman act. Why is the moderators, err... agents not doing their job by banning him from the forum, err... matrix? As mentioned above, the agents may only ban him by killing him, which to the agents, is an near impossible act. Ok, Neo is very special, but what about the others anomalies (those that still unplugged)? Can&#39;t the matrix just sent agents over to finished them, at the most suffer a power drop of 1%? Now, just said these anomalies are dangeruos, they are contagious, when one become aware of the virtual reality, he will unplugged himself from the matrix and he may infect others, causing more anomalies to emerge. Can they survive outside? 99% they will die outside the matrix. The only possible way for them to survive is Zion.

Following this argument, why does matrix wants this 1% human to stay alive? One possible reason is curiosity. The machine were built by human, we can trust human to design the machine in a way more or less resemble us. Does the machine AI reaches a state where it start questioning its purpose and destination in life (very common among human)? They deemed the only way to find the answer is through observing human, thereby the 1% power drop is nothing compare to the studying of human behaviour including anomalies?

[scruge]

Originally posted by tyk@21 May 2003 - 15:01
Following this argument, why does matrix wants this 1% human to stay alive? One possible reason is curiosity. The machine were built by human, we can trust human to design the machine in a way more or less resemble us. Does the machine AI reaches a state where it start questioning its purpose and destination in life (very common among human)? They deemed the only way to find the answer is through observing human, thereby the 1% power drop is nothing compare to the studying of human behaviour including anomalies?
Tyk, that&#39;s a very interesting outlook.

I wasn&#39;t quite clear about your thoughts as to whether Zion is reality or not?
I got the impression you thought it was reality, if so how do the machines study the real world Zion people. If Zion is real and children are born within Zion how would the machines know of their existance and the day to day interactions of the Zion people? Do the machines have probes in Zion?

[scruge]

I&#39;ve often found myself thinking about the conversation between the leader of Zion and Neo when they were looking at the machines in Zion. The leader of Zion says to Neo "We depend on the machines and they depend on us".

Lets assume when Morph told Neo in the first Matrix movie about how the current state of afairs came about, he was in error on some of his facts. Morpheous even mentioned the details were very sketchy as to what started the matrix.

Now let&#39;s assume something catastrophic did happen on the planet, meteor, war or natural disater, rendering the planet unfit for human existance. The only way man could survive and still evolve would be to build the matrix and put machines in charge of maintaining it. The machines were programed to adapt as the people of the matrix evolved over time. The program had a strong set of rules governing the machines to insure the up most care was given to all humans, but also it had a fail safe to protect the majority from the minority in the event the minority couldn&#39;t be accomodated. The humans provided the power to run the machines. It was designed to be a self sustaining complex that would insure mans existance and give the planet time to heal.

It maybe a stretch... but it answers a lot of my questions.

[chessjr]

somthing said and quoted from another forum that&#39;s going around, not sure if i believe it or not.(dont really want to)
what do you guys think? ;)

"Ok, here&#39;s a spoiler from someone at another forum who claims to have a copy of the script from Matrix revolutions"


"in Matrix revolutions we learn Zion is part of a larger Matrix. we also learn the machines put humans into pods to save them from nuclear winter, not to enslave them. eventually the machines just turned the consciousness of humans into programs and eliminated the need for human bodies. Neo, Trinity and everyone else are just programs who think they are humans. Zion was created by the ruling machines to give hope to a certain kind of human who needed to control their own fate. that is why Agent smith and Neo has powers now in the real world at the end of Reloaded, because they aren&#39;t out of the Matrix yet.

At the end of Reloaded Neo and his friends agree to leave the real Matrix and see what is really like on the outside world, but at the cost of never being able to return to the Matrix. Agent Smith stays behind to continue the fight against the dominating machines. The oracle transcends into a higher consciousness. And another One is born who will lead a new group of rebels and create a new Zion eventually.

That&#39;s how the movie script ended"


"and some hints:"


"pay attention to the first film and you will see important clues for the two sequels. For instance the Architect is watching Neo as he is arrested by agent Smith in the first movie. the oracle gives Neo an upgrade that changes this version of the one shortly after she first meets him, that&#39;s what the cookie is for just like Morpheus giving Neo the choice between the red pill and the blue pill. The candy the Oracle gives Neo is another upgrade.

Wait until you see the battle for Zion and in the Matrix in the third movie, you aint seen nothing yet :blink: "

[scruge]

Originally posted by chessjr@21 May 2003 - 18:13
"Ok, here&#39;s a spoiler from someone at another forum who claims to have a copy of the script from Matrix revolutions"


chessjr, thanks I needed that.... LOL

what forum did you pull that from?

[tyk]

Originally posted by thegroggman@20 May 2003 - 06:50
Man o man...tyk...your really bringing it to the table. Youve posted more in your first two than most do in there first 50. Keep up the good work man
Thanks for all the support, thegrggman. I&#39;m a newbie and I beleive only to speak when I&#39;d something constructive to say.

Scruge (pardon me if my spelling is wrong, I&#39;m having difficulty differentiate &#39;q&#39; and &#39;g&#39; with the underline), to answer ur question, yes I took the stand that Zion is in reality.

As I&#39;d mentioned in my previous posts, the movie produce too many questions instead of providing answer. 14 pages pertaining this thread is a good indication of the above sentence. Not considering matrix within matrix concept had already filled us with tons of questions, further debating these questions with the possibility of &#39;Zion is within matrix&#39; will only further complicate the debate or argument.

Assumption made: Zion is in reality.

Question raised: Why Architect deem it is necessary to keep rebuilding Zion after destroying it?

There are many possibilities, since I&#39;d mention machine&#39;s curiosity, I&#39;ll go from there. To study something, say a polar bear, its always important to simulate the true or natural living environment of the polar bear. Sometimes, its not possible or not cost-effective to do so, like setting an observation post and testing lab in the north pole. End up we may have to simulate the environment in the lab. By doing so, the test result may not be 100% true, as the environmental / situation simulation is under controlled condition (ie human intervention). Matrix provides a perfect simulation to study human. But as it is simulation, it is not 100% true. Zion may not be created on purpose by the machine, instead it may be created by the 1st generation The One. However, due to certain circumstances, it was destroyed by the machine and Architect may realise the value of keeping Zion as a studying subject, hence allowing the rebuild of Zion.

How the machine can study something outside matrix?

Oracle or French guy may play a part. Lets assume they are programs studying human behaviours and emotions in the matrix, and later giving another roles of &#39;good cop and bad cop&#39; roles regarding subject Zion. They may be the source helping people in Zion to obtain the necessary technology to enter matrix. Oracle doing her study on &#39;choice&#39; by creating prophecy of The One, hence giving them &#39;hope&#39; and motivation to live on. Fench guy is on the subject of &#39;cause and effect&#39; and he may be there to corrupt or cast doubt to the believer of the prophecy. I may going a bit too far, putting argument on too much assumptions. But it may explain the study value as we can view prophecy as a form of religion and its effect on people.

In short, the machine study people of Zion by the way they interact with special programs when they enter matrix.

There are other issues that cannot fully explain in this context.

1) Why keep destroying and rebuilding Zion?
Is it a change in variable in term of field study? By restarting the parameters and inject minor alternations, then compare results to achieve a more reliable conclusion?

2) Whats with the numbers?
In my first post I&#39;d raised this questions, how Architect determine the numbers of man and woman in Zion rebuilding process? A certain mathematical formula which only Architect understand, or just another random variable?

Scruge, I like ur idea of Matrix is to safe guard human through the Earth healing process. Yes it do answer lots of questions but some of them may not fit inside this picture:

1) Agents Smith hate human (from the 1st matrix movie), he may be exception, but his thinking may be popular among machine (human are like virus, destroying the host which give them life and support). Architect chip in abit by saying &#39;the extinct of human race is a loss the machine is prepare to bear&#39;. The relationship between human and machine is not all time good.

2) What is the capacity Zion can hold? If whole survivng population can be accomodate into Zion, why rely on machine?

Its late. Stop here. Sigh, had not touch on the twins protectors yet...

[Schmiggy_JK23]

1. I think you are right on there... hence the fact that each version of the matrix is seemingly better, according to the arch, as it takes code from each progressive anomally, neo... seems like a similiar scenario

2. The numbers. Well, I would guess there is some sort of mathematicall probablity, based on survival rates, etc, etc, into his numbers. and the fact that they have done it 5 times, maybe the numbers have been different, and this is their latest "ideal" set

I dont think the idea of the matrix as a way for us to coexist with them, and safeguard us... no symbiotic relationship here... imho.

btw... i find it hard to believe that smith would want to fight against the dominating machines... he has all he needs, the ability to roam free in the matrix, and only grudge being against neo, and the humans, which he despises, and is now on of, how ironic.

[ZLOsiris]

i got a question. If zion is for those people who reject the matrix ..... how do they get there, i thought morpheus was the one who handed out the pills and brought them to zion by there choice and if the zion is in the matrix how do the poeple there have children or are the fetuses programs also?

[Schmiggy_JK23]

two scenarios:

1. Zion is real, as in, not run by the machines, really in the "real"world: Then, others outside of the matrix, find potentials, who may be rejecting the matrix, (while they are both inside it), or who are noticing or acknowledging that the matrix is fake, they find them, (not just morpheus, other crews, and people i presume, do the same thing), inside the matrix, and offer them the similiar choice that neo was given.

2. if zion is fake, ie, run by the machines, a sub routine/another program: then the machines weed out the anomalies, and allow them to think "they are leaving the matrix", ie neo, when in actuallity, they arent, just going to another part of the matrix, ie, zion, where they think they are free.

as far as having kids in the matrix, would just be another human in the incubator, plugged into the matrix as they are, and then the machines add the program to the matrix, making them think that is their real kid, etc...

[ZLOsiris]

you have pretty good insight Schmiggy any coments on my other post on this topic.

[ZLOsiris]

Originally posted by ZLOsiris@19 May 2003 - 05:24
The more that i thought about it the more it would seem that the smiths and Neo share something that unite the 2. If you noticed that the other smith was the only 1 to survive that attck would tell you that he had the same power that neo has outside the matrix, that he had to use it to save himelf and also went into a coma . I doubt that the matrix woulda spared him seeing that he is screwing up the matrix a bit by coping himself. Who knows maybe the smith was also one point in time" the one" or a version of it. The agents are what "the one" was. As in the first movie she says, wow how did you do that you move jus like they do.
[COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue]

[Schmiggy_JK23]

i dont think smith was ever a "one".

I dont think it was necessarily a power they used to go into a coma... though im not set on the end of the movie, them being in a "2nd matrix, ie that version of zion", if that is the case, i think they both at some point, came to the conclusion of that reality, that they hadnt left the matrix, or at least, fully... ie the, "this feels different"...

i believe, that zion is probably real, but the one they went into at the end of reloaded, was not a real version, merely a matrix of it... thus it felt different, and thus, neo, and both smith, realized it, and both being part program, and exchaging data via their "convergence" in the first one, both just passed out from shock.

the reason i think smith lived the attack... i think i mentioned it... the matrix had already accounted for that body... think about... the instant smith infected that guy, taking over his mind, the matrix probably counted him as dead... and seemingly, after morpheus&#39;s 1 sentinel for each person in zion statement, they prolly know the exact #&#39;s of people in zion, thus, at the attack on the outpost, they wouldnt even be looking for that guy, or register him as a threat maybe, as he was already logged as dead?

[ZLOsiris]

thanks i was wondering bout that and couldnt find a way around it. I jus rev doesnt have in holes in it. but that nuke winter theory from that other guys sounds very plausable.

[chalice]

Great thread Schmiggy.
I pretty much, tentatively go along with the technical consensus. I&#39;m wondering at the minute at the attention to detail in the movie, particularly character names, which, (with most of the main protagonists anyway) seem to be grounded in Greek myth.
Just a few examples to be going on with;
Persephone was the daughter of Demeter and Zeus and wife to Hades, god of the underworld. She was abducted by Hades and held prisoner until she eventually came to love him. According to the ancient greeks this is how the seasons were divided. A bargain was struck between Demeter and Hades to permit Persephone to stay half the year in Olympus and half in the underworld; the sweetness of spring, the bitterness of winter, etc.
Neo has obvious conatations.
Morpheus, I find interesting, in that he was the Greek god of dreams, son of Hypnos, God of sleep. If I may quote from Ovid&#39;s Metamorphosis;

"King Sleep was father of a thousand sons - indeed a tribe -
And of them all, the one he chose was Morpheus who had such skill
At miming any human form at will.
No other dream can match his artistry
In counterfeiting men; their voice their gait,
Their moods,; and too, he imitates their dress precisely and the words they use
But he mimes only men..."

It takes no stretch of the imagination to draw parallels here with the Matrix character.
I&#39;d be interested to explore the naming of the other characters. Some, I realise, are irrelevant but a lot of them add that extra texture to an already beautifully layered film.

Thoughts?

[scruge]

Think of the matrix as an onion with many layers. You first start out in the center. If you&#39;re not able to cope with the virtual world that exist in that layer. The matirx will then have you moved to a different virtual world. But you are not moved phyically only mentally. The matrix will make it appear you escaped the layer you were in, before assigning you to the new layer.

When they speak of Zion being distroyed with each cycle. I believe it means the people of zion are returned to the interlayer of the matrix after their minds have been reset. The spoiler says the machines figure a way to extract the consciousness of the people, which eliminates the need to have a body in a pod.

[Kazaa Lite freak]

The Matrix Reloaded SVCD Centropy version,


i just downloaded ye 2.3gb one, i extracted the .bins, but it wont play in windows media player or realplayer it says encounted an error, please please help im begging you guys, and gals, i must see this movie :rolleyes:

[scruge]

Originally posted by Kazaa Lite freak@22 May 2003 - 13:41
The Matrix Reloaded SVCD Centropy version,


i just downloaded ye 2.3gb one, i extracted the .bins, but it wont play in windows media player or realplayer it says encounted an error, please please help im begging you guys, and gals, i must see this movie :rolleyes:
you should post in the help section or other... my understanding is the 2.3gb has to be broken down into 3 vcds before playing.... or you can mount it on hdd.

I&#39;ve been looking for it myself. did you get it off kazaa?

[Kazaa Lite freak]

no Bit Torrent,

[Hazzy Hazz]

All this made me realise they married philosophy with science fiction........rather novel
I guess these bob and andy r futurists.......................

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by Kazaa Lite freak@22 May 2003 - 07:41
The Matrix Reloaded SVCD Centropy version,


i just downloaded ye 2.3gb one, i extracted the .bins, but it wont play in windows media player or realplayer it says encounted an error, please please help im begging you guys, and gals, i must see this movie :rolleyes:
Kazaa lite, this is not the thread for such requests... there are numerous other matrix reloaded threads, for file purposes, and questions on copies, take your questions there... <_<

[Freek1e]

possible answer

a)

neo=neophyte= trainee
morpheus= mentor=trainer
oracle=stocastic capability prediction program= training prog with greater range of variables than other programs due to known outcomes(subroutines)
trinity= lover= control program for Neo, allowing predictable control due to linked emotional content

I think it possible that scmiggy&#39;s &#39;real world&#39; is &#39;matrix&#39; inside of &#39;matrix&#39; has good possibilities

the machines test found anomalies &#39;such as Neo&#39; to see how far they have progressed, by using control programs and formulas as above, then they alter the &#39;matrix&#39; to compensate for the varied anomaly, thus updating their system and keeping integrity intact

B)

Neo = THE ONE
Matrix = Matrix
Real World = Real world
Zion = Last hope and home of last humans
Revelations = KICK ASS FINALE&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Also, BANE is the name of the guy on the table at the end, he is the one infected by smith, cut his hand and passed infection to Neo when they shook hands before taking off to see the Oracle, reason he didn&#39;t stab hi is due to kid shouting Neo and running to pass him the spoon created by the kid in the first movie "there is no spoon"

Movagnoin (is that is how it is spelt) is the mirror or the oracle (as I see it) has access to the same info, but wants to use it for his own ends and keep his part of the program running his way, Agent Smith is running away from deletion and has become a virus, hence the copying into other persons, he may be looking for a way to become an agent again, possibly by infecting agents

I also agree with schmiggy that I think that the Zion they were released to was just another part of the Matrix, a new part added by the architect to stop the destruction of the core, hence the reason that Neo felt the machines, I think it was to make Neo feel that he had lost Zion, possibly to stop him being the one, i.e if you know you have lost, then you would have nothing to believe in, so you cannot be the one, you cannot stop bullets etc..., this would leave him open to attack and possibility of being killed in the Matrix by agents..

Killed by loss of confidence, you know you are not the one because you failed, therefore you cannot be stronger, faster etc.. than the agents, bullets, etc...

just my thoughts

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Heh. I can&#39;t help but think, in Revolutions, we&#39;ll find out the whole thing was just a dream...

[ Rural America. Dawn. The camera zooms in on an average residental home. The occupants: brothers Andy and Larry Wachowski. The scene changes to show Andy stretching as he wakes up from a restful night&#39;s sleep. He climbs out of bed and walks downstairs to find his brother, Larry, sitting at the kitchen table eating breakfast. ]

Andy: "Dude. I just had the coolest dream."
Larry: "Dude&#33; So did I&#33;"
Both: "Duuuude..."

I just pray I&#39;m wrong. :lol:

[olibomb]

So do i. I&#39;ve heard rumours that Neo dies awhile into Revolutions. But if this happens the film would stink

[Infested Cats]

Originally posted by olibomb@23 May 2003 - 04:58
So do i. I&#39;ve heard rumours that Neo dies awhile into Revolutions. But if this happens the film would stink
I think there are a lot of religious connotations throughout the film.

Neo is the savior, representing jesus christ, and he will no doubt sacrifise himself in order to save the people of Xion. Also, Neo wears what a preist wears underneath of his religious clothes (I don&#39;t know the exact names), when he&#39;s in the Matrix.

Archatect is god, Agent Smith is Judas... blah blah blah there&#39;s lots more.

[Neo-03]

here is the answers to ur compleatly wrong explenations the matrix has run over 5 times which makes neo the 5th one all the others had chosen to save humanity but neo chose trinaty bec he is human and loves her more than ny of the last 4 did coz he chose trinaty hes only got 24 hours to save zion and the guy on the table the whole point of him is he is a like copy of the agent and he set an emp of early and so 5 shippes got killed and he was the only surviver cos he works for the bots so zions not dead yet its got 24 hours the matrix hase been looping cos the other 4 chose and rebuilt zion but is neo relly the 1 to defet the matrix ??? and bout him stoppin the robots in the end im cluless wtf that is it might be some of agent smith is impalnted on to him not bad but the bots might of thought he was an agient??

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Originally posted by Neo-03@23 May 2003 - 20:14
[...] the guy on the table the whole point of him is he is a like copy of the agent and he set an emp of early and so 5 shippes got killed and he was the only surviver cos he works for the bots [...]
The "guy on the table" (I&#39;m pretty sure his name is Bane. Can someone find out for sure so we can start using his name, please?) is "infected" by Agent Smith, who is a separate entity from the Matrix. He&#39;s not working for the machines anymore; he just wants to kill Neo.

[silverccrow]

yeah his name is bane but let me show u my idea

first smiths want something from neo maybe copy himself 2 him 2 be the one ?? i dont know but he is not trying 2 be a angent if u see in the first movie he wants 2 get out of the matrix why who knows ?

second neo got some powers of smith maybe he fuses with him in some way and another thing in the first movie when they shot the emp no one gets hurt why neo came down and also bane *smith*??

yeah if this is true there is no a matrix in the matrix
another thing there canot be a matrix in the matrix for so may reasons i read in matrix fans &#33;

If u read the bible u will find the end of matrix
revolutions = revelations &#33; :(

[Loomis]

A point was brought to me yesterday about how
Smith (INSIDE the Matrix) and the Sentinels (OUTSIDE the Matrix)
have the same roles.
So when Neo and Smith got a little "intertwined", so to speak,
and a bit of Neo got copied onto Smith and vice versa,
he had a bit of Smith inside him (INSIDE the Matrix) and therefore had a bit of the powers Smith has.
Now, outside the Matrix, I believe this would explain why he has a bit of Power over the Sentinels;
Not enough to control them, but enough to fight them off as he fought off Smith(s) inside the Matrix.

Does this make any sense, or am I just shooting my mouth off after having read through 16 pages?
Yes, I read them all&#33;&#33; Great read btw, you guys have alot of varied and very interesting ideas and theories&#33;

- Loomy

[sharedholder]

:o Check this out :http://www.moviemistakes.com/film.php?filmid=3144

[wienerschnitzel]

Click here for the same link as above (http://www.moviemistakes.com/film.php?filmid=3144)

Im really lazy and I know most of you are too

[Longdong]

Why is the freeway suicidal?

[Schmiggy_JK23]

1. Im guessing because of all the different people around, and all the access agents could have.

2. Whens the last time you saw a telephone on a freeway? minus the emergency boxes, which dial only to one place... ala some places in florida. Thus, being close to an exit isnt easy.

3. Lots of traffic, and civilians to get in the way, etc. high speeds, less control... note when ever they plug into the matrix, they are reasonably in control of their enviroments, etc... at least for the time being... and the freeway represents just the opposite... no control... and isnt that what its alll about? :lol:

[TerminatorStout]

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel@24 May 2003 - 00:39
Click here for the same link as above (http://www.moviemistakes.com/film.php?filmid=3144)

Im really lazy and I know most of you are too
yeah, i skipped the first link and went with yours.... lol


TS

[yyiryyib]

if u look at most of the faults tho, alot of them are to do with safety and the motorway scene, this was very dangerous and cost 40,000,000 too make and shoot, they werent goin to reshoot it just cos a door was locked in 1 shot and not locked in another. even though the bit about the agent smiths was very funny, the australian guy who plays agaent smith said in an interview he went into a room full of hims, with heads and stuff and that they were all copies of him. heads and things lying about in buckets.

[Longdong]

Originally posted by Schmiggy_JK23@24 May 2003 - 09:55
1. Im guessing because of all the different people around, and all the access agents could have.

2. Whens the last time you saw a telephone on a freeway? minus the emergency boxes, which dial only to one place... ala some places in florida. Thus, being close to an exit isnt easy.

3. Lots of traffic, and civilians to get in the way, etc. high speeds, less control... note when ever they plug into the matrix, they are reasonably in control of their enviroments, etc... at least for the time being... and the freeway represents just the opposite... no control... and isnt that what its alll about? :lol:
thanks

I saw it on the big screen last night for the first time (i live in the uk). Beats the centropy version a hundred times over. I am tending towards the theory that zion is still the matrix, it fits nicely.

Do you think the zion smith did the same as neo to save himself from the centanals and thats why he is also in a coma?

[whoeva]

This is my first post in this topic.

Just wanted to say thanx to the thread creater and thanx to all who have taken time to post.
Very interesting reading.

[GSW]

Originally posted by FlamingYob@16 May 2003 - 02:08
I was thinking about those ghost guys, couldn&#39;t Neo do that? And do you think we&#39;ll see him doing it in the next movie?
No, those guys are &#39;deleted programs&#39;, meaning they can do what they want with the matrix...

[KOLYAtheDJ]

this is just my thoughts....
when neo stoped those machines outside the matrix and fall down....what i am thinking is, what if it wasn&#39;t him who destroyed the machines, but other ship that approached them that destroyed it with somekind of electromagnetic pole or something remember how Morpheous did it in the first part?
and neo fall down because may be he was on that magnetic pole and it kinda hurt him or something...
and that gauti guy, if you guys have paid attention, cut his left hand, but when he shook hands with neo he used his right hand, and there was no blood in his right hand....

[Infested Cats]

THERE IS ONLY ONE MATRIX. No way in hell would the Wachowski Brothers pull something like there being a matrix within a matrix/2 matrixes.

My theory about Neo being able to stop the sentinels:
In the first movie, Morpheus explained that when you&#39;re in the matrix, if you take pain, or die, in the matrix, you receive the same damage in real life. So, both your body in the matrix, and outside the matrix are connected. An example in Reloaded is when Agent Smith copies himself onto Bane. Doing so, he could now use the phone lines that connect into Zion. Upon doing so, he essentially took command of Bane&#39;s body, thus proving that both body and mind are connected to the matrix. So, what you can do in the matrix, can be brought out into the real world. Now, what force brought Neo back from the dead in the first movie? Love&#33; The instrument of that love was Trinity. With that in mind, let&#39;s look at that resurrection scene: Trinity leans over Neo and kisses him (the proverbial "kiss of life" or "breath of life") and Neo awakens&#33; And the first words Neo hears are in the form of a command from Trinity, "Now, get up&#33;"... do you see what I&#39;m alluding to? After his resurrection, Neo&#39;s mastery of the Matrix is total, and the authorities (Agent Smith) are powerless against him... untill the second movie, where the agents recieve an upgrade.

Now, to explain Neo: The machines/programs refer to Neo as an "anomaly" not because he is "the one," but because there is something special about him. Agent Smith explained this in the park when he said, "...you did something impossible. You killed me," thus implying that the previous Neos never succeeded in killing Agent Smith. Also, the Architect knew he was an anomaly because Neo didn&#39;t react to the Architects speech the same way the past Neos had (on the TV screens). This Neo was calm and collected, and was driven by love.

Anyway, at the end of the film when the Nebuchadnezzar is destroyed, Neo finally realizes that he had retained his powers from the matrix, and used them on the machines. In simpler terms: Since your body and mind are connected to the matrix, you are able to take things from the matrix, and use them in reality. Exactly what Neo did. The reason why Neo doesn&#39;t understand why he can use his powers in reality is because nobody taught him he could. When he took the red pill in the first movie, the crew from the Nebuchadnezzar had to teach him how to harness the Matrix. Perhaps now, Neo is learning how to harness his powers outside of the Matrix...

[Mr. Smith]

Originally posted by Stonecoldfreak1@15 May 2003 - 21:31
cant w8 to see how much money this movie ranks in
hey stoner :blink: why, why would you care how much money this movie brings in??????really??????? <_<

[olibomb]

Originally posted by Mr. Smith+25 May 2003 - 13:17--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr. Smith @ 25 May 2003 - 13:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Stonecoldfreak1@15 May 2003 - 21:31
cant w8 to see how much money this movie ranks in
hey stoner :blink: why, why would you care how much money this movie brings in??????really??????? <_< [/b][/quote]
Do u call everyone stoners :blink: ?

[Mr. Smith]

Originally posted by Stonecoldfreak1@17 May 2003 - 10:02
SPOILER so eh fuck off :lol:

















yeah the guy on the ship says there was 1 survivor... it shows neo then shows the survivor... the guy with the goatee
hey stoner :blink: i don&#39;t think you should be using that language :angry: ,but as far as they spoiling the movie for you :lol: , i think you will forget in aaa---opps you forgot already :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[kylman5000]

Ok, after reading all your threads, i think i&#39;ve came up with this:

1) Zion is another matrix:
Here&#39;s why, the aritect says "99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level." You see, they were given a choice, matrix or zion. Zion is just another matrix with a different surroundings, still under the control of the machines. It would also be the reason why Neo could stop the machines.

2) French guy is the First Neo:
First, the Aritect says, once he chooses zion, there is a "reinsertion of the code he is caring, inserting it into the prime program." Thus being deleted. The oracle said Programs who are chosen for deletion can return to the source or go into exile. The French guy, like most French do, fled.

3) What the Aritect Said:
Mainly, in the first film, the oracle said he was not the one. Thus making neo go back into the matrix to save morpheus. Thus bringing out that he is the one. The Aritect says that the entire human race will be destroyed. Now, if they are getting effecient and destroying zion (assuming it is real) and the matrix will crash, then that should have been the end of the movies and all matrixies together. But sence there is a third movie, it makes me think about the choice at an unconscious level, and that he was saying all this to "force" him back into the matrix to save trinity. Why? I guess that will be answered in the 3rd movie.

4) Smith corrolation with Neo:
Neo "destroyed" smith. He should have gone back to the source, like the oracle said, but instead went into exile. Now, smith was the most powerful of the agents. The oracle mentions things about "programs hacking programs." Now take each person in the matrix, and make them into a &#39;program.&#39; Smith then could hack and copy his code into them. Before neo starts the fighting scean after the oracle, Smith almost completes the code transfer. Now, some of his code is in neo, and i guess neo&#39;s code was copied into him for a temp area. (if you know anything about programming, its a simple swap function) Now, neo can do stuff that smith can do, and likewise smith can do some stuff that neo can do. (the hand cutting scene was either for smith to convert neo now without people knowing, or thats how they do things in the alternate matrix)

5) Body Guards of the French Guy:
They were like what morpheus is, a hacker. Of cource the french guy lost his neo &#39;code&#39; but he is still in the matrix. Sort of like the jump program, no one ever gets it on the first jump, they learn. So after 5 or 6 neo&#39;s, they have become powerful. Much to neo&#39;s standards, yet still can only bend the rules. As for the ghoasts, they must have hacked into an old agent program form the begining when they had more control. I&#39;m not sure on that one.

6) The keymaker:
As the oracle and keymaker says, everything has a purpose. of cource the machines knew, similarly like how the oracle knew about the vase, that things must be done or said to effect emotions. Ofcourse, after years and years of going through our minds, they would know excatly what to say, and when to say it. It makes sence that they would know who and where to put things. The keymakes knows that neo is comming for him. That is his purpose. To remove the anomoly. Now, why do agents try to stop neo, either no one told them, or they dont need to know. Their purpose is to try to stop anyone. I dont see why they would do this, because if the anomoly doesnt return to the source, doesnt the matrix crash? I think they have some sort of knowing not to kill him yet still knowing of how to do things to keep him motivated.

7) Revolution Trailer Explained (beta)
Of cource it was only 45 seconds, but here is what i think. The aritect lied, and forced neo back into the matrix. Then into zion. Smith, who can copy his code into people, found out a way to keep his code&#39;s appearence away, so all it is, is the code, not his body. Now, neo and &#39;smith&#39; are in a coma, much like when you are in the matrix. Here are 2 possiblilties:
i:
i: They are both "plugged in" and are now fighting in a 3rd matrix. This will finish off smith, and thus leaving only smaller and weaker programs in the main matrix, which neo can take out. He will go back to the main matrix, and find it didnt crash... yadda yadda yadda ... neo and trinity live happily ever after
ii: They are now out of both matrixies and are fighting in the "real" world. Neo defeats smith, leaving a gateway out of both matrixies.

[n30n]

QUOTE
Ok, after reading all your threads, i think i&#39;ve came up with this:

1) Zion is another matrix:

I agree that could be a possibility

2) French guy is the First Neo:

No, he is a program, remember the cake he "made" the girl, he said he wrote the prgram himself, he is a program in exile, not a previous neo, also later in the film the architect says all other anomolies (the one&#39;s) chose to return to the mainframe

3) What the Aritect Said:
"Mainly, in the first film, the oracle said he was not the one."

Remember though the oracle only told him what he needed to know, what she actually said was "sorry kid you&#39;re not the one" "you&#39;ve got what it takes but it looks as though you&#39;re waiting for something, another life perhaps?" remember he does dies in the hotel corridor at the end and then relives, so he did what the oracle said "waiting for another life"

4) Smith corrolation with Neo:
"Neo "destroyed" smith. He should have gone back to the source, like the oracle said"

Nope, smith wasnt a program like the others, the only reason programs are to join the source is if there is a better program to replace them, or they are due to be replaced, there is not one single entity better than agents, its their world they control it, remember agents are the machines (i know neo is better :P )

5) Body Guards of the French Guy:
"They were like what morpheus is, a hacker. Of cource the french guy lost his neo &#39;code&#39; but he is still in the matrix. Sort of like the jump program, no one ever gets it on the first jump, they learn. So after 5 or 6 neo&#39;s, they have become powerful. Much to neo&#39;s standards, yet still can only bend the rules. As for the ghoasts, they must have hacked into an old agent program form the begining when they had more control. I&#39;m not sure on that one"

Nope ghosts are previous programs which were due for deletion/replacement and chose to go into exile with the mirovingian, who himself is also a program he "survived the previous anomolies and will this one"