First driving lesson next week!! Yayyy

[tralalala]

:lol: finally...

Next Sunday at 8:30 AM the instructor will pick me up, and I'll be having my first driving lesson :)


Now, is driving a manual car actually difficult? How easy is it to get the hang of the clutch etc.?
What are the odds of me crashing on my first lesson :lol:



Raf

[Aaron_T]

Well in my first lesson all i did was drove the car along the road and did a left turn at a junction, its fairly easy to get used to the clutch if you ask me but it all depends on whether the car is a diesel or petrol, diesels are so much easier to get the hang of.

im sure you will be fine though, the instructors really make things easy. :)

[tralalala]

What makes a diesel easier to handle than a petrol car..? :huh:


And I really hope the instructor is good.. some of my mates said he was brilliant :)

[j2k4]

:lol: finally...

Next Sunday at 8:30 AM the instructor will pick me up, and I'll be having my first driving lesson :)


Now, is driving a manual car actually difficult? How easy is it to get the hang of the clutch etc.?
What are the odds of me crashing on my first lesson :lol:



Raf

A few things about a manual transmission, Rafi:

When driving away from a dead stop, you bring in (engage) the clutch by bringing it up against slightly increased throttle.

Once the car begins to move, fully release the clutch before applying more throttle; as you get used to this procedure, you can quicken your actions, all the while working on driving away (and shifting) smoothly.

Aaron is right about diesel vs petrol; diesels have much more abundant torque, and are thus less clutch-sensitive, technique-wise; driving a gas-powered vehicle is a better learning experience.

Also, you will be driving on public thoroughfares, and not a racetrack; there are many shared techniques, but one which does not belong on the street at all is braking (slowing) by shifting down.

Use the foot brakes instead.

Driving away on an uphill can be tricky, occasionally requiring a heel-toe brake-throttle technique, but we'll save that for later.

Good luck. :)

[vidcc]

When starting from stationary, remember to get the biting point on the clutch before releasing the handbrake (secondary brake). failure to do this if facing up an incline will result in the car rolling back, and then make sure you release the handbrake before increasing the throttle enough to move the car forward. Failure to do this will result in a kangaroo effect and probably a stall.
Also when stationary, the correct thing to do is put the handbrake on and the gears in neutral until you are ready to move, not one foot on the clutch while in gear and the other on the footbrake. (the same principle applies with automatic transmission but is seldom applied)

of course after you pass your test you can operate with all the bad habits you desire:naughty:

[clocker]

When starting from stationary, remember to get the biting point on the clutch before releasing the handbrake (secondary brake). failure to do this if facing up an incline will result in the car rolling back, and then make sure you release the handbrake before increasing the throttle enough to move the car forward. Failure to do this will result in a kangaroo effect and probably a stall.

Using the e-brake as a crutch will only slow down the process of learning to "balance" on the clutch, IMO.
Might be necessary right at the beginning of the learning curve (only on a hill) but should be abandoned ASAP.

Tralala- my niece learned to drive my Z (probably one of the crankiest, most "mechanical" tranny/clutch combos ever) in under an hour.
Once you get it right, it's second nature.

I hate automatics.

[vidcc]

Using the e-brake as a crutch will only slow down the process of learning to "balance" on the clutch, IMO.
Might be necessary right at the beginning of the learning curve (only on a hill) but should be abandoned ASAP.

If certain that you are on a level road (appearances can be deceptive) then a learner could get away with it assuming they have mastered the clutch control.
I'm sure many insurance claims will prove otherwise.


of course after you pass your test you can operate with all the bad habits you desire
until then the correct method (according to the standard of the country, some countries have very low standards) should be employed.

Of course the only one tralalala should listen to is his driving instructor.

[MagicNakor]

Manuals are more difficult to learn on than automatics, simply because you have to pay attention to the clutch and shifting. Sometimes it's better to learn the basics of driving on an automatic if you're especially nervous.

It will make absolutely horrible grinding sounds.

:shuriken:

[j2k4]

When starting from stationary, remember to get the biting point on the clutch before releasing the handbrake (secondary brake). failure to do this if facing up an incline will result in the car rolling back, and then make sure you release the handbrake before increasing the throttle enough to move the car forward. Failure to do this will result in a kangaroo effect and probably a stall.
Also when stationary, the correct thing to do is put the handbrake on and the gears in neutral until you are ready to move, not one foot on the clutch while in gear and the other on the footbrake. (the same principle applies with automatic transmission but is seldom applied)


If certain that you are on a level road (appearances can be deceptive) then a learner could get away with it assuming they have mastered the clutch control.

Are you an Asian-Indian employed as an actuarial for an insurance company or do you write instructions on how to assemble the cheap furniture sold at Ikea stores at all (at all).

BTW-

What do kangaroos have to do with learning to drive. :dabs:

[tralalala]

OMG went today to do the eye test, and failed the left eye..!! :angry:

I never needed glasses in my life!! Now i failed because i got 1 number wrong?! WTF... I'm so pissed off.. :(

[Barbarossa]

You don't need glasses now. A monocle should suffice :smilie4:

[tralalala]

retook the eye test, and passed.. did the other one at another optometrist.. thank god for that.. a real relief :)

[cpt_azad]

About starting on hills, as J2 said, be careful because there will be roll back, pray to god the person behind you isn't close (tailgating).

And I think that most people should learn how to drive on standard/manual transmission cars, that way they know how to drive both and Auto and Manual.

[vidcc]

About starting on hills, as J2 said, be careful because there will be roll back, pray to god the person behind you isn't close (tailgating).
If your driving skills require you "pray to god" then maybe you need to practice more.:unsure: God is not going to help you, but you can help yourself by awareness of hazards and driving in a manner that will safely allow preventative action. This doesn't mean that you will always be protected from the actions of others but it greatly reduces risks. Most "accidents" are caused by human error.

J2 said you need to have your heal on the brake while your toe is on the accelerator for uphill starting.


Driving away on an uphill can be tricky, occasionally requiring a heel-toe brake-throttle technique, but we'll save that for later.

I have to assume he was joking ;) :shifty:

[j2k4]

I
J2 said you need to have your heal on the brake while your toe is on the accelerator for uphill starting.


Driving away on an uphill can be tricky, occasionally requiring a heel-toe brake-throttle technique, but we'll save that for later.

I have to assume he was joking ;) :shifty:

1. I did not say "heal". That would make no sense whatsoever.

2. You quote of my post is accurate, though, and-

3. No, I was not joking. It is a common enough technique amongst those who can execute it, which group I gather does not include yourself.

Excellent drivers separate themselves thus from others whose efforts are, shall we say, more pedestrian.

[vidcc]

Yes I agree you did indeed say heel and I mistyped.
It's a terminology thing....however......
How does "heel toe" Which seems to be similar to what I call double de-clutching when downshifting but single clutching relate to pulling away uphill?


Excellent drivers separate themselves thus from others whose efforts are, shall we say, more pedestrian.
There's no such thing............ Only people who think they are. Often included in this group are people that have had many accidents (somehow always the other guys fault) ;)

Some drivers are better than others.


I passed my IAM test back in the eighties. I don't think it makes me an excellent driver. It made me more aware of how lacking the basic test standard (back then) was. It also dispelled a lot of my thinking as to what made for a good driver.
Very few think they are a bad driver. Many think everyone else is. ( this is different from assuming the guy in the other car is a bad driver and will make a mistake as part of defensive driving)

[j2k4]

Yes I agree you did indeed say heel and I mistyped.



Excellent drivers separate themselves thus from others whose efforts are, shall we say, more pedestrian.
There's no such thing............ Only people who think they are.

That is an utterly wrong and stupid thing to say.

Often included in this group are people that have had many accidents (somehow always the other guys fault) ;)

I have never been the driver in an accident in my life.

Hopefully that will never change.

Some drivers are better than others.

Oh, so they can be better...just not excellent, huh?

I passed my IAM test back in the eighties. I don't think it makes me an excellent driver. It made me more aware of how lacking the basic test standard (back then) was. It also dispelled a lot of my thinking as to what made for a good driver.
Very few think they are a bad driver. Many think everyone else is. ( this is different from assuming the guy in the other car is a bad driver and will make a mistake as part of defensive driving)

This is news?

As to the original point, which was your taking exception to my blurb about heel-toe technique, I note you still do not acknowledge it.

How do you account for this, your being an extremely well-trained, yet self-effacing, less-than-excellent-but-willing-to-say-the-other-guy-sucks kind of driver?

In closing, I will admit that, by the standards of some, I may not be an excellent driver.

I would bet, though, by most standards, I am a better (and certainly more resourceful) driver than you are.

[vidcc]

That is an utterly wrong and stupid thing to say. yes this ^ reply is wrong..

Now there are good/better drivers always striving to improve, excellent...no


I have never been the driver in an accident in my life.

Hopefully that will never change.
Can you honestly say that in all that time it's never been more luck than judgment?




Oh, so they can be better...just not excellent, huh? yes.




This is news?

As to the original point, which was your taking exception to my blurb about heel-toe technique, I note you still do not acknowledge it.

How do you account for this, your being an extremely well-trained, yet self-effacing, less-than-excellent-but-willing-to-say-the-other-guy-sucks kind of driver?
In the later edit: which could have been better put in a new post, but
It's a terminology thing....however......
How does "heel toe" Which seems to be similar to what I call double de-clutching when downshifting but with single clutching relate to pulling away uphill?


In closing, I will admit that, by the standards of some, I may not be an excellent driver.

nice of you to admit it



I would bet, though, by most standards, I am a better (and certainly more resourceful) driver than you are.and then you pull it back with a big head...the attitude I mentioned.

[j2k4]

Oh, ffs. :dry:

[Ava Estelle]

Heel - toe is a method of keeping the revs up when changing gear, something racing drivers do all the time, it is not for hill starts, that's what the handbrake is for. Telling a young kid going for his test to use heel - toe for pulling away on hills is stupid and irresponsible.

[j2k4]

Heel - toe is a method of keeping the revs up when changing gear, something racing drivers do all the time, it is not for hill starts, that's what the handbrake is for. Telling a young kid going for his test to use heel - toe for pulling away on hills is stupid and irresponsible.

I see you aren't too accomplished behind the wheel either.

If you'd actually read rather than skim on the way to indulging your anti-j2 pique, you'd notice I did not tell him to use heel-toe, I merely told him it existed to be imparted at a later (and as yet unspecified) time.

I know you take umbrage when I insult your intelligence, but it precisely these occasions which prompt me to do so, dumb-fuck.

[Ava Estelle]

I see you aren't too accomplished behind the wheel either.
By your own criteria I'm far more accomplished than you, having driven everything from pushbikes to 80 ton truck mounted cranes and everything in between, including saloon car racing, and I've done that on four continents for the past 43 years ... without an accident or as much as a speeding fine.


If you'd actually read rather than skim on the way to indulging your anti-j2 pique, you'd notice I did not tell him to use heel-toe, I merely told him it existed to be imparted at a later (and as yet unspecified) time.
You told him it was for hill starts, whether or not you told him to do it now or later is irrelevant, it was wrong.

"Driving away on an uphill can be tricky, occasionally requiring a heel-toe brake-throttle technique, but we'll save that for later."



I know you take umbrage when I insult your intelligence, but it precisely these occasions which prompt me to do so, dumb-fuck.
You don't insult my intelligence, you just spit the dummy every time I show you up to be a big-noter ... oh how the mighty have fallen, just like the Reps. So you stick to personal insults, and I'll continue to correct you.

[tralalala]

C'mon guys.. never meant it to turn into flaming and stuff.. it's my first driving lesson we're talking about, on Sunday.. remember? :)

The next thing to do is the theory test..

[j2k4]

C'mon guys.. never meant it to turn into flaming and stuff..

Oh, come now, Rafi.

I haven't flamed Ava yet; I just want you to be the best driver in all of Israel, and she wants you to be something less, perhaps a social democrat. :dabs:

[SeK612]

What is the heel toe thing?

For hill starts I leave the handbrake on and pull up the clutch (one hand on the steering wheel on on the handbrake). As the car begins to pull forward I depress the handbrake and move off (lifting the clutch and pressing the accelerator pedal normally once the hand brake is down).

[Barbarossa]

I was just about to ask the same question. When I'm driving my right heel never leaves the floor. Neither does my left one, truth be told :ermm:

[Ava Estelle]

Heel-toe is a method of keeping your revs up when changing gear and braking, usually into a corner. It's used by rally drivers and saloon car racers because they can't afford to waste even a split second on a corner.

You brake with your heel whilst tapping the throttle with your toes, so your foot is sideways. This keeps the revs up so that when you pull out of a corner the revs match the wheel speed of the car.



For hill starts I leave the handbrake on and pull up the clutch (one hand on the steering wheel on[e] on the handbrake). As the car begins to pull forward I depress the handbrake and move off (lifting the clutch and pressing the accelerator pedal normally once the hand brake is down).
Perfect!

[Barbarossa]

Heel-toe is a method of keeping your revs up when changing gear and braking, usually into a corner. It's used by rally drivers and saloon car racers because they can't afford to waste even a split second on a corner.

You brake with your heel whilst tapping the throttle with your toes, so your foot is sideways. This keeps the revs up so that when you pull out of a corner the revs match the wheel speed of the car.


Oh, OK :ermm:

If you're not racing, that seems like an insane and pointless thing to try.

Also, back to something else J2 said, I quite often downshift to reduce speed a bit. Saves the brake-pads a little bit. :happy:

I think if you do the Advanced Driving Test (UK) they tell you not to do that, but meh...

[Snee]

Back when I bothered about such things, one of the things my instructor made me do was practice keeping the car standing still, pointing uphill, only using the throttle, no brakes. (The parking break was mainly for, you know, parking.)

Countering gravity as it were. I thought that was what J2 meant.

Also, downshifting to reduce speed was something I was taught to do, seeing as how reducing speed that way, rather than braking, can be safer on an icy road. (Hardly ever drove something with ABS (anti-lock braking system to you non-swedes/germans out there).)


EDit: I'm told the police in our area used to go through transmissions like something else, putting their cars into reverse while still moving forward at some speed, to stop quicker. That's probably overdoing it (and also fairly hard to do with modern cars.) :ermm:

[MagicNakor]

I honestly couldn't tell you how I pull away on an upward incline. It doesn't involve any racing moves or fancy parking brake maneuvers though.

:shuriken:

[tralalala]

C'mon guys.. never meant it to turn into flaming and stuff..

Oh, come now, Rafi.

I haven't flamed Ava yet; I just want you to be the best driver in all of Israel, and she wants you to be something less, perhaps a social democrat. :dabs:

:lol: Aint that difficult to be a good driver in Israel.. most of them suck.... =\

However, I haven't reached starting a car on an incline... first, I wanna get past the "getting-the-hang-of-the-clutch-accelerator-gearshift-coordination" thingy.. then, I'll take a look at what to do on an incline :)

[j2k4]

Heel-toe is, as Ava agrees, a racing technique.

It just happens to work rather well in situations such as I have described.

Down-shifting in order to drive more slowly (that is to say, as a method of limiting speed on a downhill) is not what I am talking about relative to what I said previously.

When the intent is to stop, it is better to use the brakes, as to do otherwise puts the wear on the clutch facing and pressure plate, rather than the brake pads.

Passenger car equipment is substantially less durable than racing equipment, and it is for this reason as well as maintenance costs that braking should be favored.

As anyone who has worked as a mechanic knows, replacing brake pads is much less labor- and money-intensive than replacing a clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, and re-surfacing a flywheel, especially in FWD/transaxle installations.

For the do-it-yourselfer, brakes are easily repaired/rebuilt in a garage or driveway.

For most people, however, clutch work is for the professionals, who will not usually impart information such as I am; they like to do clutch work, and even more, they like to bill for their services.

Car owners who've paid the tab for such repairs and still don't know this will continue to make the mistake, but now the rest of you have no excuse.

Go forth and brake.

BTW-

All this is not to say there is anything at all wrong with the handbrake method; whatever blows your hair back, right?

[lynx]

Heel-toe is, as Ava agrees, a racing technique.

It just happens to work rather well in situations such as I have described.

Down-shifting in order to drive more slowly (that is to say, as a method of limiting speed on a downhill) is not what I am talking about relative to what I said previously.

When the intent is to stop, it is better to use the brakes, as to do otherwise puts the wear on the clutch facing and pressure plate, rather than the brake pads.

Passenger car equipment is substantially less durable than racing equipment, and it is for this reason as well as maintenance costs that braking should be favored.

As anyone who has worked as a mechanic knows, replacing brake pads is much less labor- and money-intensive than replacing a clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, and re-surfacing a flywheel, especially in FWD/transaxle installations.

For the do-it-yourselfer, brakes are easily repaired/rebuilt in a garage or driveway.

For most people, however, clutch work is for the professionals, who will not usually impart information such as I am; they like to do clutch work, and even more, they like to bill for their services.

Car owners who've paid the tab for such repairs and still don't know this will continue to make the mistake, but now the rest of you have no excuse.

Go forth and brake.

BTW-

All this is not to say there is anything at all wrong with the handbrake method; whatever blows your hair back, right?So, lots of revs and drop the clutch as fast as possible then :naughty:

Replacing tyres (tires to you) is cheaper than a new clutch too.

[j2k4]

Heel-toe is, as Ava agrees, a racing technique.

It just happens to work rather well in situations such as I have described.

Down-shifting in order to drive more slowly (that is to say, as a method of limiting speed on a downhill) is not what I am talking about relative to what I said previously.

When the intent is to stop, it is better to use the brakes, as to do otherwise puts the wear on the clutch facing and pressure plate, rather than the brake pads.

Passenger car equipment is substantially less durable than racing equipment, and it is for this reason as well as maintenance costs that braking should be favored.

As anyone who has worked as a mechanic knows, replacing brake pads is much less labor- and money-intensive than replacing a clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, and re-surfacing a flywheel, especially in FWD/transaxle installations.

For the do-it-yourselfer, brakes are easily repaired/rebuilt in a garage or driveway.

For most people, however, clutch work is for the professionals, who will not usually impart information such as I am; they like to do clutch work, and even more, they like to bill for their services.

Car owners who've paid the tab for such repairs and still don't know this will continue to make the mistake, but now the rest of you have no excuse.

Go forth and brake.

BTW-

All this is not to say there is anything at all wrong with the handbrake method; whatever blows your hair back, right?So, lots of revs and drop the clutch as fast as possible then :naughty:

Replacing tyres (tires to you) is cheaper than a new clutch too.

Who said "lots of revs", or "drop the clutch"?

Properly executed, it works as smoothly as on a level surface.

Actual clutch and throttle technique is exactly as usual.

Nothing about it is hard on tires (tyres to you).

[clocker]

For hill starts I leave the handbrake on and pull up the clutch (one hand on the steering wheel on[e] on the handbrake). As the car begins to pull forward I depress the handbrake and move off (lifting the clutch and pressing the accelerator pedal normally once the hand brake is down).
Perfect!
Perfect?
Maybe if you're 13 but anyone who has driven a stick for over 2 weeks and needs to rely on the ebrake seriously needs to reevaluate their coordination skills.
As for downshifting to stop/slow down...j2 got it right.
Replacing brake pads is definitely preferable to replacing the clutch (or even worse, the synchros).
Anyway, if you're doing it right, neither excessive braking or downshifting is even necessary.
The first step when preparing to stop is let off the gas which, for most stickshift cars, causes an immediate and usually sufficient rate of decelleration.

[j2k4]

Perfect!
Perfect?
Maybe if you're 13 but anyone who has driven a stick for over 2 weeks and needs to rely on the ebrake seriously needs to reevaluate their coordination skills.
As for downshifting to stop/slow down...j2 got it right.
Replacing brake pads is definitely preferable to replacing the clutch (or even worse, the synchros).
Anyway, if you're doing it right, neither excessive braking or downshifting is even necessary.
The first step when preparing to stop is let off the gas which, for most stickshift cars, causes an immediate and usually sufficient rate of decelleration.

;)

[Ava Estelle]

Perfect?
Maybe if you're 13 but anyone who has driven a stick for over 2 weeks and needs to rely on the ebrake seriously needs to reevaluate their coordination skills.


Rubbish! When pulling away on a hill\incline you use your handbrake, which, if you're doing the right thing, should be on anyway. You put the car in gear, go to move, and as you feel it push against the handbrake you drop it and move forward. At least that's how drivers do it, clock makers may have another way.

[clocker]

Perfect?
Maybe if you're 13 but anyone who has driven a stick for over 2 weeks and needs to rely on the ebrake seriously needs to reevaluate their coordination skills.


Rubbish! When pulling away on a hill\incline you use your handbrake, which, if you're doing the right thing, should be on anyway.
You're kidding, right?
Why in the world would I engage the parking brake just because I'm waiting on an incline?

[Barbarossa]

to stop yourself rolling back? :unsure:

[clocker]

That's what balancing on the clutch's engagement point does.
You don't move forward, you don't move back.

You definitely do not engage the ebrake.

I don't believe we're even having this discussion.
Do you guys really put the parking brake on every time you come to a stop sign/light?

[Barbarossa]

isn't that bad for the clutch though?

[clocker]

No, it isn't.

We're not talking excessive amounts of revs here...I can balance my car (on a hill) at @ 500 RPM...essentially idle speeds.
Besides, the clutch, like brake pads, is considered to be a consumable item-it's meant to be replaced at regular intervals.

My last car (1971 Datsun Z) had over 60K miles on the clutch and it was still fine when I sold it.
I'll be installing a clutch in my new car (1991 RX7) when the weather improves this spring and I expect it'll last just as long.

[Barbarossa]

OK, cheers! :)

[Ava Estelle]

That's what balancing on the clutch's engagement point does.
You don't move forward, you don't move back.

You definitely do not engage the ebrake.

I don't believe we're even having this discussion.
Do you guys really put the parking brake on every time you come to a stop sign/light?


No wonder there are so many accidents!

You sit there balancing the clutch and throttle?

What a pile of crap!

First off, we're talking about a hill start ... do you even understand what a hill is? Or a start?

Then you say you come to a stop on a hill and sit there balancing the clutch and throttle?

No wonder you drive Japanese crap!

This thread is about a kid learning to drive and you're telling him to sit there balancing the clutch and throttle ... unbelievable!

Anyone learning to drive from you would FAIL their test.


PS: WTF has an ebrake got to do with anything anyway? We're talking about a HANDBRAKE here.

[manker]

I see the whole not-putting-the-handbrake-on thing if you're waiting at lights on a hills, but I generally keep it in gear, push in the clutch and hold my foot on the brake pedal.

Pulling off by moving over to the accelerator while releasing the clutch and not rolling backwards isn't exactly a tricky manoeuver.

The heel-toe thing (as I understand it, the racing manoeuvre thing) is something I never do and keeping it stationary using both clutch and accelerator is something I would only do if waiting for a gap in the traffic to turn right when it might be necessary to pull off quickly.



Btw, when I was learning, I was told to apply the handbrake when waiting at lights. It's just that now I feel competent enough not to do so.

[Barbarossa]

That's pretty much what I do.


I've just remembered, one of the reasons you might want to engage the handbrake in a stationary queue is so that if someone shunts you from behind, you don't lurch forward and shunt the guy in front.

I think. :unsure:

[clocker]

That's what balancing on the clutch's engagement point does.
You don't move forward, you don't move back.

You definitely do not engage the ebrake.

I don't believe we're even having this discussion.
Do you guys really put the parking brake on every time you come to a stop sign/light?


No wonder there are so many accidents!

You sit there balancing the clutch and throttle?

What a pile of crap!

First off, we're talking about a hill start ... do you even understand what a hill is? Or a start?

Then you say you come to a stop on a hill and sit there balancing the clutch and throttle?

No wonder you drive Japanese crap!

This thread is about a kid learning to drive and you're telling him to sit there balancing the clutch and throttle ... unbelievable!

Anyone learning to drive from you would FAIL their test.


PS: WTF has an ebrake got to do with anything anyway? We're talking about a HANDBRAKE here.
Ava, you are clearly a moron.

Bye.

[manker]

PS: WTF has an ebrake got to do with anything anyway? We're talking about a HANDBRAKE here.I googled ebrake when clocker first mentioned it.

I think it's a word that people who want you to think they know a lot about cars use as a direct replacement for handbrake.

[clocker]

PS: WTF has an ebrake got to do with anything anyway? We're talking about a HANDBRAKE here.I googled ebrake when clocker first mentioned it.

I think it's a word that people who want you to think they know a lot about cars use as a direct replacement for handbrake.
It may be a geographical thing...ebrake, handbrake and parking brake are all interchangeable terms as far as I know.
It has nothing to do with trying to impress you with my knowledge about cars.

Which is extensive, BTW.:P

[manker]

I googled ebrake when clocker first mentioned it.

I think it's a word that people who want you to think they know a lot about cars use as a direct replacement for handbrake.
It may be a geographical thing...ebrake, handbrake and parking brake are all interchangeable terms as far as I know.
It has nothing to do with trying to impress you with my knowledge about cars.

Which is extensive, BTW.:P
:schnauz:

In any case, I think it's impossible for anyone to impress me with their knowledge about cars - JP tried once and half way thro' what for all the world read like a soliloquy, I found myself thinking; 'FFS, get a life, get laid, wanker'.

[Ava Estelle]

Ava, you are clearly a moron.

Bye.

Good comeback, it saves you digging a bigger hole for yourself.

[clocker]

Just drove to work.
During this journey of about 8 miles I had to stop six times- three of these were on inclines of various degree.
Didn't use the handbrake once.

How I failed to leave a trail of carnage and destruction is beyond me.

Sheer dumb luck, I suppose.

[Snee]

See, that's what I'm talking about.
Seems a bit odd engaging the parking brake for stops like that.


I do know some great (sometimes professional) drivers, and I can honestly say that I've never seen anyone use the parking break like that, not for short stops when they weren't actually parking.


EDit: TBH, I somehow imagine that engaging it all the time might be more dangerous, 'cos rather than just pushing down the throttle, and leaving the clutch alone to go again, you now have to focus on disengaging the parking brake as well. One more thing for people to mess up with.

And it seems lazy. Like you drop all control while waiting for a green light.

[j2k4]

I do know some great (sometimes professional) drivers, and I can honestly say that I've never seen anyone use the parking break like that, not for short stops when they weren't actually parking.


Vidcc assures us there is "no such thing" as an excellent driver.

He may denounce your claim of knowing any who are merely "great", as well.

I await his next post with 'bated breath...:huh:

[j2k4]

Just drove to work.
During this journey of about 8 miles I had to stop six times- three of these were on inclines of various degree.
Didn't use the handbrake once.

How I failed to leave a trail of carnage and destruction is beyond me.

Sheer dumb luck, I suppose.

Had Ava been driving in front of you, you would no doubt have been late arriving.

Had he been behind you, I expect you'd be somewhat injured just now, and your car roont, as well.

Oh, no, wait...he'd have been in the wrong lane.

Never mind...

[clocker]

I admit that I briefly considered attempting to use the hand...fuck it, ebrake as recommended but the entire process seemed so ludicrous and unnatural that I merely smiled and continued to drive as a normal person would.

Perhaps only "jap crap" cars are capable of such refined driving techniques.:frusty:

[bigboab]

UK driving Test

Take the example of a simple mistake of not putting on the handbrake while waiting in traffic. That would be a driver error which will not cause you to fail the test (unless it takes you over the 15 driver error limit). However if the car behind you accidentally bumps you, and your car surges forward a bit without hitting the car in front of you (because you had stopped far enough behind using tyres and tarmac rule), your little mistake is now a serious error due to what you would say is no fault of yours, and you will fail the test. Even if your car does not surge forward when bumped, you are certain to fail the test because your car was not secured when stationary.http://ukadi.blogspot.com/

Useful hints on sitting the UK driving test.

[MagicNakor]

I thought you guys were talking about pulling away from parking on an incline...not idling in traffic. :blushing:

:shuriken:

[vidcc]

I await his next post with 'bated breath...:huh:

This after twice publicly throwing your rattle down and stating you would be ignoring my posts.:rolleyes:

You and I have different opinions as to what makes for a good driver. I used to be close to your present opinion but as I said I had a lot of what I thought made for a good driver dispelled. Making it pertain to this subject, more or less it was put like this.

It's not about being able to multi task with your limbs while driving. If it was then those that say they can talk on the phone with one hand while driving, being able to lean over and change a CD (modern version of an 8 track) while still watching the road, women being able to put their make up on during the drive to work (somehow not crashing so obviously skilled) or changing gear with your elbow would be considered good drivers.
I'm sure you will say that the examples are like chalk and cheese or some other term, but that's not how I see it.

It's not about performing race car tactics as a definition of being an "accomplished" driver that makes for a good driver.

It's about the safety. Not just yours but that of the world outside your vehicle.

Performing race car tactics during a race is designed to cut a fraction of a second off a maneuver. It may well require practice to become accomplished at such a maneuver but it trades off on safety. This trade off is made due to the circumstance of being in a race.
Perhaps a cop in pursuit would use the tactic, but it's a trade off of safety over the need to cut that fraction of a second.
The safest thing would be one pedal one foot. It's a more natural position because of the angle and there is less chance of the foot slipping. The fact that one manages to do it without slipping "so far" does not make it the safest.
So in summation IMO the ability to perform neat little tricks makes for an arrogant driver. The neat little trick makes mistakes more likely so is not the safest.

The Summation as I remember it given to me when talking about various techniques we may wish to employ went something like this.
Obviously safety is traded off just by the act of driving. The question is are you trading safety due to circumstance or the wish for a exhilarating drive?

[j2k4]

So in summation IMO the ability to perform neat little tricks makes for an arrogant driver. The neat little trick makes mistakes more likely so is not the safest.

In MY honest opinion (IMO, to you) the matter of safety goes without saying.

I have done my share of racing; Clocker has, believe me, done more than the rest of us combined (sorry, Ava), and I can say, with his concurrence, racers have forgotten more about safety than your average "safety-oriented" driver will ever know.

The bottom line?

If you want to know about safety, ask a racer.

Period.

The "neat little tricks" are just a carry-over of refined abilities born of having raced at one time or another.

That is precisely why these things are disseminated by such means as we have attempted here, rather than what a google or driving manual will tell you.

Granted, not everyone can execute certain maneuvers, but the simpler ones can be a tremendous help, especially if imparted with a view toward the "why" of things, which we've also provided.

The Summation as I remember it given to me when talking about various techniques we may wish to employ went something like this.
Obviously safety is traded off just by the act of driving. The question is are you trading safety due to circumstance or the wish for a exhilarating drive?

That last is a complete, utter, and total misapprehension of this entire thread.

BTW-

I'd like your "honest opinion" on whether any level of attainable driving ability might warrant use of the term "great", considering you've already ruled out "excellent".

[clocker]

BTW-

I'd like your "honest opinion" on whether any level of attainable driving ability might warrant use of the term "great", considering you've already ruled out "excellent".
An elliptical aside:

I remember reading an interview with Jackie Stewart during which the journalist (Henry Manney III, David E. Davis?) became so engrossed in the converstaion that he lost track of time and was suddenly faced with an unmakeable deadline to catch his plane.
Stewart offered to drive him and they made record time through horrible London traffic.
What impressed the writer most was not that Stewart could drive fast (doh!), rather, despite the traffic and distance, he could not recall feeling any sensation of acceleration or braking- Stewart was so smooth and controlled that even blitzing through London seemed pedestrian.

That to me epitomises a good (or even great) driver.
Any idiot can go fast- to go fast without seeming effort or brouhaha takes real talent.

Well, proper handbrake etiquette helps as well.

[vidcc]

There are "good" race car drivers that make for lousy road drivers, just as there are "good" road drivers that make for lousy race car drivers.

[Ava Estelle]

UK driving Test.. you are certain to fail the test because your car was not secured when stationary.http://ukadi.blogspot.com/
Thank you BB, just what this is all about, a kid taking his driving test.


I thought you guys were talking about pulling away from parking on an incline...not idling in traffic.
Quite right MN, and also stopping on a hill and pulling away again.


I have done my share of racing; Clocker has, believe me, done more than the rest of us combined (sorry, Ava)
You Googled that did you?


If you want to know about safety, ask a racer.
Rubbish ... period!


Sheer dumb luck, I suppose.
Now you're getting it.


Had Ava been driving in front of you, you would no doubt have been late arriving.

Had he been behind you, I expect you'd be somewhat injured just now, and your car roont, as well.

Oh, no, wait...he'd have been in the wrong lane.

Never mind...

I repeat ... I have been driving on the road for 43 years, I actually learned to drive in one of my father's Thames Trader trucks when I was 12, taking gravel from the pit to the hoppers. I've driven all over Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia, motorbikes, cars, trucks, cranes, buses, four wheel drives and even a motorised rickshaw. In all that time I have never had an accident, nor as much as a speeding ticket, in fact, my only brush with the law was an $80 fine for not having my license with me, and a $40 fine for not wearing a seatbelt, both offences were 25 kilometres up a gravel road in the middle of the Great Dividing Range, driving a kilometre to a mate's house, the first cops I'd ever seen on the road. I've driven left hand drive vehicles on right hand drive roads and right hand drive vehicles on left hand drive roads. I raced Mini Coopers and Lotus Cortinas from the ages of 17 to 22, and still race go-karts. So if you seriously think I give a shit about childish taunts from someone who would come into a thread from a young kid taking driving lessons, and tell him it's OK to start off his driving with bad habits, you're sadly mistaken. I'll put my driving record against yours any day. A good driver is a safe driver, not a cocky show-off, as you seem to believe.

[Barbarossa]

I tried the heel/toe braking/accelerating thing last night on my way home, and almost crashed into a ditch :dabs:

The problems were twofold:

1). My foot appears to be too long.
2). The pedals are at different heights.

I think I'll stick to proper driving from now on :dry:

[j2k4]

I repeat ... I have been driving on the road for 43 years, I actually learned to drive in one of my father's Thames Trader trucks when I was 12, taking gravel from the pit to the hoppers. I've driven all over Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia, motorbikes, cars, trucks, cranes, buses, four wheel drives and even a motorised rickshaw. In all that time I have never had an accident, nor as much as a speeding ticket, in fact, my only brush with the law was an $80 fine for not having my license with me, and a $40 fine for not wearing a seatbelt, both offences were 25 kilometres up a gravel road in the middle of the Great Dividing Range, driving a kilometre to a mate's house, the first cops I'd ever seen on the road. I've driven left hand drive vehicles on right hand drive roads and right hand drive vehicles on left hand drive roads. I raced Mini Coopers and Lotus Cortinas from the ages of 17 to 22, and still race go-karts. So if you seriously think I give a shit about childish taunts from someone who would come into a thread from a young kid taking driving lessons, and tell him it's OK to start off his driving with bad habits, you're sadly mistaken. I'll put my driving record against yours any day. A good driver is a safe driver, not a cocky show-off, as you seem to believe.

So, you've done lots of driving in places where there no one was in attendence save perhaps some Sherpas and a scattering of sheep and rabbits, and certainly no rules or police.

Other than that, we may gather you are in your mid-fifties, and as yet unable to face facts.

This last is not news.

I'll tell you what:

Give yourself the vehicle of your choice, and me one just like it, and I'll catch you...then I'll drive around in front of you all day long - how's that work for you?

[j2k4]

I tried the heel/toe braking/accelerating thing last night on my way home, and almost crashed into a ditch :dabs:

The problems were twofold:

1). My foot appears to be too long.
2). The pedals are at different heights.

These impediments are occasionally encountered.

Perhaps the hand-brake might be of use. :dabs:

[clocker]

UK driving Test

Take the example of a simple mistake of not putting on the handbrake while waiting in traffic. That would be a driver error which will not cause you to fail the test (unless it takes you over the 15 driver error limit). However if the car behind you accidentally bumps you, and your car surges forward a bit without hitting the car in front of you (because you had stopped far enough behind using tyres and tarmac rule), your little mistake is now a serious error due to what you would say is no fault of yours, and you will fail the test. Even if your car does not surge forward when bumped, you are certain to fail the test because your car was not secured when stationary.http://ukadi.blogspot.com/

Useful hints on sitting the UK driving test.
It occurs to me that nothing in this paragraph specifically mentions a manual transmission so I can only assume that when driving an automatic you guys put it in PARK and engage the handbrake at traffic stops as well.
Right?

Yeah, thought not.

[Ava Estelle]

Give yourself the vehicle of your choice, and me one just like it, and I'll catch you...then I'll drive around in front of you all day long - how's that work for you?

I wondered how long it would take for something as peurile as that to pop up, you never disappoint. Ask your dad if he'd like to fight my dad.




It occurs to me that nothing in this paragraph specifically mentions a manual transmission so I can only assume that when driving an automatic you guys put it in PARK and engage the handbrake at traffic stops as well.
Right?

Yeah, thought not.

So, you lost the argument for the manual gearbox, now you want a shot at automatics. Have you ever driven one, or are they a bit new for the age of cars you drive?

[clocker]

It occurs to me that nothing in this paragraph specifically mentions a manual transmission so I can only assume that when driving an automatic you guys put it in PARK and engage the handbrake at traffic stops as well.
Right?

Yeah, thought not.

So, you lost the argument for the manual gearbox, now you want a shot at automatics. Have you ever driven one, or are they a bit new for the age of cars you drive?
*sigh*
You failed to address the question.

[vidcc]

It occurs to me that nothing in this paragraph specifically mentions a manual transmission so I can only assume that when driving an automatic you guys put it in PARK and engage the handbrake at traffic stops as well.
Right?

Yeah, thought not.

Hardly anyone does (bad habits once they pass their test), however the correct thing to do (depending on what "stop") is put it in neutral with the handbrake engaged;)

[clocker]

It occurs to me that nothing in this paragraph specifically mentions a manual transmission so I can only assume that when driving an automatic you guys put it in PARK and engage the handbrake at traffic stops as well.
Right?

Yeah, thought not.

Hardly anyone does (bad habits once they pass their test), however the correct thing to do...
Do you?

[vidcc]

Hardly anyone does (bad habits once they pass their test), however the correct thing to do...
Do you?
If it looks like I will be stopped for more than a fleeting second I usually do. (use neutral) Not every "stop" requires it.


Originally Posted by vidcc
of course after you pass your test you can operate with all the bad habits you desire

[clocker]

I meant do you "secure the car when stationary", i.e., apply the parking brake at stop signs/lights.

[vidcc]

I meant do you "secure the car when stationary", i.e., apply the parking brake at stop signs/lights.
Each situation is different. I will in a queue or if the lights have changed to red, but if I come to a stop sign where I can see the junction is "clear" or lights that have changed to green and it looks like I will be moving away almost immediately then I wouldn't.
( A green light doesn't mean go, it means proceed if your path is clear to do so)

[clocker]

Interesting.
In my entire life I have never seen anyone- irregardless of transmission type- apply the parking brake at a traffic stop.

[ilw]

Personally:

Stop on flat: foot on brake and clutch while stopped and then just balance accelerator/clutch and move off

Stop on medium incline for short time: either same as above, or balance clutch and accelerator for duration

Stop on medium incline for longer time: either foot on brake or use hand brake

steep hill: hand brake most of the time, unless v short in which case i might balance it.


I prefer using the brakes to balancing it, not because its hard to balance, i just think its better for the clutch & the environment, (my car idles faster than the speeds clocker balances at!)

never heard of heel & toe being used in a hill start, what benefit do you gain in comparison to quickly changing to balancing or using the handbrake?

[vidcc]

Interesting.
In my entire life I have never seen anyone- irregardless of transmission type- apply the parking brake at a traffic stop.
I can believe that. Not because it's the correct thing to do but because once people pass their test they pick up bad habits. It depends on which state or which examiner one gets but in the US the road test is very lax. I would imagine that most people would fail their road test ( where the test is a proper test) if they drove in their normal way with their "habits".
crossing hands when making a turn, sometimes only use the one hand. not keeping hands at "10 to 2". sitting in traffic in gear instead of neutral until ready to move. riding the clutch. Talking on phones, smoking, eating and drinking while driving. sitting in the wrong lane, bad signaling, driving too close, speeding ......the list goes on.

In the us driving is almost considered a competitive sport. Police pursuits are aggressive and often using physical contact to ram the driver being chased off the road. This is very different to how it's done in other countries where the police keep a safe distance and control the situation. In such places the risk to others is reduced and casualties are fewer with no loss of capture success.
I won't say that once they have passed their test in the UK those drivers are better drivers than those in the US, but I will say that the standard required to pass the test in the UK is a lot higher than the standard in the US

I think the worst place for driving (that I've experienced) is India where the only rule seems to be the biggest vehicle has right of way, even if on the wrong side of the road.

[j2k4]

...not keeping hands at "10 to 2"...

Guilty.

I prefer quarter-after nine (9 and 3 for you Brits, ex-pats as well).

And now, for my own outrageous abuse of the editting controls...

...in the UK drivers are better drivers than those in the US...the standard required to pass the test in the UK is a lot higher than the standard in the US ...


Sounds like a lovely place, the U.K.; certainly better in every way than the U.S.

I'd go see for myself, but I'm sure they wouldn't let me in, crude bugger that I am. :dabs:

[Ava Estelle]

I'd go see for myself, but I'm sure they wouldn't let me in, crude bugger that I am.

Or are you just afraid you won't want to leave, thus crushing all your prejudices against Britain?

[bigboab]

Interesting.
In my entire life I have never seen anyone- irregardless of transmission type- apply the parking brake at a traffic stop.

I thought that automatic cars did not have a parking brake as such. When I stopped at traffic lights I just put the gear lever to 'Park'. I think. My memory is not what it used to be.:) So they tell me.

[clocker]

Interesting.
In my entire life I have never seen anyone- irregardless of transmission type- apply the parking brake at a traffic stop.
I can believe that. Not because it's the correct thing to do but because once people pass their test they pick up bad habits.
"Bad habits" or just learning to adapt to real world conditions?

BTW, do you have any idea of the qualifications of the functionary/committee that produced these immutable "rules"?
The same folks who have artificially capped speeds on our roads (the famous "Speed Kills!" brigade)?
It depends on which state or which examiner one gets but in the US the road test is very lax.
No argument there.
...I won't say that once they have passed their test in the UK those drivers are better drivers than those in the US, but I will say that the standard required to pass the test in the UK is a lot higher than the standard in the US
And neither approaches the difficulty of Japan's requirements.
BTW, British drivers seem to think quite highly of US drivers/conditions. (http://www.easycar.com/DrivingSurvey/ch_3.htm)

I think the worst place for driving (that I've experienced) is India where the only rule seems to be the biggest vehicle has right of way, even if on the wrong side of the road.
I thought driving in Haiti was a nightmare (like the country itself) and the Mediterranean countries horrible (specifically Spain and Italy).

Italian cars don't seem to come equipped with brakes at all, much less handbrakes.
Everyone's horn seems to function perfectly though....

[j2k4]

I'd go see for myself, but I'm sure they wouldn't let me in, crude bugger that I am.

Or are you just afraid you won't want to leave, thus crushing all your prejudices against Britain?

Another misapprehension.

I am a complete Anglophile, and have no prejudice whatsoever against Britain or any of her subjects, apart from yourself.

BTW-

What have you got against her, OZ-boy?

[Ava Estelle]

What have you got against her, OZ-boy?

Oops ... wrong subject ... the 'her' threw me off.

[j2k4]

What have you got against her, OZ-boy?

Nothing at all, I find her honesty and candour utterly refreshing. :)

As do I, considering the content of the actual British contribution to this thread.

It's the ex-pats like you and vidcc who've mucked things up.

[Ava Estelle]

It's the ex-pats like you and vidcc who've mucked things up.

vidcc and I are men of the world, hence our wide knowledge of global affairs, unlike you we have no social compulsion to toe the party line.

[vidcc]

As do I, considering the content of the actual British contribution to this thread.

It's the ex-pats like you and vidcc who've mucked things up.

Fuck you racist xenophobe. My American family heritage goes back as far as the next mans. The circumstance of were my parents where at the time of my birth and the time spent in both countries during my childhood and adult life makes me no less one or the other.

[j2k4]

Fuck you racist xenophobe.

That's lovely.

Would you mind if I framed it.

[j2k4]

vidcc and I are men of the world, hence our wide knowledge of global affairs, unlike you we have no social compulsion to toe the party line.

Sounds rather elitist to me.

I suppose there are no arguments that cannot be defeated by a liberally applied dollop of "worldliness", are there?

BTW-

The party can do what it likes; I suffer no compulsions, and I toe no line.

[tesco]

Interesting.
In my entire life I have never seen anyone- irregardless of transmission type- apply the parking brake at a traffic stop.

I thought that automatic cars did not have a parking brake as such. When I stopped at traffic lights I just put the gear lever to 'Park'. I think. My memory is not what it used to be.:) So they tell me.
When I stop at traffic lights I just hold the brake. I never touch the gear lever at all.
I've never seen anyone move to park at a light, I wasn't tought that in driver's ed, I didn't doing it during my driving exam and I didn't get told off for it after the exam.

We were tought to use the parking brake when stopping the car (shift to park, engage parking brake, remove foot from brake pedal).
But I never see anyone with a automatic use the parking brake.

In fact what i always thought was that most car's parking brakes don't even work :blink: (My dad's old car's parking brake was weak but was a manual so i guess he had to have it working somewhat, my dad's van has a broken parking brake [can't even push down the pedal :P], and the parking brake in my van doesn't hold the car)

No idea about a manual though, never even tried it, so I have no idea what balancing the clutch/accelerator means (probably won't until i actually try).

[MagicNakor]

I do drive a manual and I still don't know what they mean rossco, unless they're talking about easing off the clutch while trying to actually *go* but not doing it so fast or early you end up stalling. ;)

I was never taught to park at a light either, and I imagine I would've been asked what I was doing if I had.

:shuriken:

[j2k4]

In fact what i always thought was that most car's parking brakes don't even work :blink: (My dad's old car's parking brake was weak but was a manual so i guess he had to have it working somewhat, my dad's van has a broken parking brake [can't even push down the pedal :P], and the parking brake in my van doesn't hold the car)

Parking brakes in northern climes are usually road-salted to a fare-thee-well by the time they're a year or two old; the actuating cables become corroded and seizure-prone.

I know this accounts for some of the lack of use.

[clocker]

No idea about a manual though, never even tried it, so I have no idea what balancing the clutch/accelerator means (probably won't until i actually try).
It's quite simple (in theory, at least).
The clutch is the interface between the engine's power output (i.e., the crankshaft) and the transmission.
When the clutch pedal is pushed in, the transmission is disconnected, let the pedal out and the transmission is engaged.
This is accomplished through two plates (keep in mind this is a very simplified explanation) and friction.
The point when both plates start to spin as one (thus, transferring power to the wheels) is called the "engagement point" and can be felt through the pedal.

"Balancing on the clutch" involves simultaneously holding the clutch on the beginning edge of engagement while feeding just enough gas so the car neither rolls back or moves forward.
It's definitely a "feel" thing that must be acquired/honed but becomes second nature (much like riding a bicycle) after a short while.

Poorly done (symptomized by high revs and seesawing back and fro) this is bad for the clutch system.
Done properly, the clutch facing will wear more quickly than if not done at all but in my experience, not enough to really matter.
After all, clutches are considered "consumables" just like brake pads- they are designed to wear as they are being used.

[lynx]

In fact what i always thought was that most car's parking brakes don't even work :blink: (My dad's old car's parking brake was weak but was a manual so i guess he had to have it working somewhat, my dad's van has a broken parking brake [can't even push down the pedal :P], and the parking brake in my van doesn't hold the car)

Parking brakes in northern climes are usually road-salted to a fare-thee-well by the time they're a year or two old; the actuating cables become corroded and seizure-prone.

I know this accounts for some of the lack of use.
Maybe it's the lack of use that makes them seizure-prone?

In the UK vehicles have an annual test starting at 3 years old, any such corrosion or ineffective action would be an immediate fail.

[clocker]

In the UK vehicles have an annual test starting at 3 years old, any such corrosion or ineffective action would be an immediate fail.
In the US, auto "safety tests" (or utter lack thereof) are the province of the individual states.
In Colorado for instance, I must pass an emissions test every year but the actual physical condition of the car is unexamined.
Other states have more stringent requirements, some of which probably approach/equal what you are used to.

[Virtualbody1234]

Parking brakes in northern climes are usually road-salted to a fare-thee-well by the time they're a year or two old; the actuating cables become corroded and seizure-prone.

I know this accounts for some of the lack of use.

I drive in northern climate with road salt for many months each year. My 19 year old Honda still has a perfectly functioning parking brake (original cables). So from my perspective, I don't get where you're coming from.

[j2k4]

Parking brakes in northern climes are usually road-salted to a fare-thee-well by the time they're a year or two old; the actuating cables become corroded and seizure-prone.

I know this accounts for some of the lack of use.

I drive in northern climate with road salt for many months each year. My 19 year old Honda still has a perfectly functioning parking brake (original cables). So from my perspective, I don't get where you're coming from.

Two things:

1. I am sure you use your parking brake.

I never said it wasn't a good habit, and in this case it pays dividends in inclement conditions.

2. Honda pays more attention to engineering and generally uses superior materials.

Also, as Clocker points out, individual states may subject the parking brake to a periodic functionality test, which incentivizes owners to maintain their hardware.

In places where expectations are low, hardware performance suffers.

[j2k4]

Parking brakes in northern climes are usually road-salted to a fare-thee-well by the time they're a year or two old; the actuating cables become corroded and seizure-prone.

I know this accounts for some of the lack of use.
Maybe it's the lack of use that makes them seizure-prone?

Exactly.

Saw this late, sorry.

[MagicNakor]

It's both, or so they told me when my car's parking brake wouldn't budge. Didn't have winter tires, and since I couldn't afford them, my car sat unused for the winter. Evidentially the combination creates a scenario where it both rusts over and freezes up.

GM's cars, especially Pontiacs, are particularly prone to it.

And to think you get this knowledge without having to be towed out of a tree-lined ditch and into the city. <_<

:shuriken:

[lynx]

It's both, or so they told me when my car's parking brake wouldn't budge. Didn't have winter tires, and since I couldn't afford them, my car sat unused for the winter. Evidentially the combination creates a scenario where it both rusts over and freezes up.

GM's cars, especially Pontiacs, are particularly prone to it.Strange, that used to be the case with GM cars over here too (though they weren't alone).

Until they realised that their sales were being dramatically affected by the fact that people no longer wanted to buy something that would be a rusting hulk within a couple of years.

You would have thought the parent company would have heard about it by now. Or maybe it's just that over there you don't mind having a pile of rust in your driveway. :whistling

[MagicNakor]

There must be a fabulous wealth of high-quality used cars over there. There's only so much choice one gets here with no transportation and limited cash. ;)

:shuriken:

[tralalala]

Have just got in from my FIRST driving lesson :D


went real good.. started off at some car park just go get the hang of changing gears etc.
Then got onto the streets of Karmiel.. :lol: Got to 3rd gear and 50 KM/h.. Got to 55 as well, but then he was like "Rafi.. we're over the speed limit.. which is 50".. But fine, didn't crash, and hope it will get easier with time :):)

[j2k4]

Have just got in from my FIRST driving lesson :D


went real good.. started off at some car park just go get the hang of changing gears etc.
Then got onto the streets of Karmiel.. :lol: Got to 3rd gear and 50 KM/h.. Got to 55 as well, but then he was like "Rafi.. we're over the speed limit.. which is 50".. But fine, didn't crash, and hope it will get easier with time :):)

Back on topic for that good news.

Way to go, Rafi. :)

[clocker]

Have just got in from my FIRST driving lesson :D
Congratulations.


went real good.. started off at some car park just go get the hang of changing gears etc.
Then got onto the streets of Karmiel..
You are either extremely adept, mastering the art of manually shifting AND general automobile management in one lesson or your instructor is totally fearless.

Did you stall, at all?

[j2k4]

Have just got in from my FIRST driving lesson :D
Congratulations.


went real good.. started off at some car park just go get the hang of changing gears etc.
Then got onto the streets of Karmiel..
You are either extremely adept, mastering the art of manually shifting AND general automobile management in one lesson or your instructor is totally fearless.

Did you stall, at all?

I'm sure he didn't.

I imagine he can start driving around in front of Ava immediately, huh?

[MagicNakor]

You are either extremely adept, mastering the art of manually shifting AND general automobile management in one lesson or your instructor has a secret
death wish.

Did you stall, at all?

Fixed.

:shuriken:

[Ava Estelle]

I imagine he can start driving around in front of Ava immediately, huh?

The childishness continues. :)

[tralalala]

Nope.. didn't stall :)

Although I think he had a bit to do with that.. I imagine he was using his set of pedals most of the way.. :lol:


Next lesson on Thursday morning :)

[clocker]

Nope.. didn't stall :)

Although I think he had a bit to do with that.. I imagine he was using his set of pedals most of the way.. :lol:

Ah, a backseat driver with teeth.

[j2k4]

Nope.. didn't stall :)

Although I think he had a bit to do with that.. I imagine he was using his set of pedals most of the way.. :lol:


Next lesson on Thursday morning :)

He has a whole set? :huh:

[tralalala]

Yeah he has a clutch, accelerator and brake pedals... Just in case.


Anyways - tomorrow early morning is the theory test.. wish me luck :)

[tralalala]

PASSED the theory test!!! Yippeeeeeeeeeee :D

Great feeling to have the exam marked with a "Pass" stamp.. :lol:

[j2k4]

PASSED the theory test!!!

Driving theory? :huh:

Driving should be naught but a practical matter until you've done it long enough to expound coherently.

Sounds like a New Age thing. :dabs:

[Ava Estelle]

Driving should be naught but a practical matter until you've done it long enough to expound coherently.

Not at all. People shouldn't be allowed on the road until they can show a certain knowledge of the environment they will be driving in. They should know what the different road signs mean, the sequence of traffic lights, who gives way to who, and many other things.

[tralalala]

Driving should be naught but a practical matter until you've done it long enough to expound coherently.

Not at all. People shouldn't be allowed on the road until they can show a certain knowledge of the environment they will be driving in. They should know what the different road signs mean, the sequence of traffic lights, who gives way to who, and many other things.

Which is exactly what I studied for the theory... They even want you to study about how the engine works, the parts in it.. how to replace a wheel etc.
Anyways, glad I passed it.. that's what matters, and tomorrow morning is my second driving lesson :)

[j2k4]

Which is exactly what I studied for the theory... They even want you to study about how the engine works, the parts in it.. how to replace a wheel etc.
Anyways, glad I passed it.. that's what matters, and tomorrow morning is my second driving lesson :)

Granted, all that, I'm just curious as to why they called it theory.

It implies a speculative aspect, when there's nothing speculative about it.

[tralalala]

Theoretical examination.. in theory - what should be done on the roads... then you have the actual test - to see how you do the theoretical stuff in reality.

[j2k4]

Theoretical examination.. in theory - what should be done on the roads... then you have the actual test - to see how you do the theoretical stuff in reality.

I understand, I just think it's a klutzy use of the word.

I'm sure it's just me. :dabs:

[Snee]

I don't see why :unsure: They aren't throwing him out in traffic, into a real situation, they are asking him what he'd do, in theory, as he writes.

What people say or think that they'll do in a given situation, and what they actually do, are often two separate things, as I'm sure you know.


Of course, they could ask him what he should do, instead, but maybe there's some psychological benefit that can be derived from him thinking it's him facing the decisions.

[j2k4]

I don't see why :unsure: They aren't throwing him out in traffic, into a real situation, they are asking him what he'd do, in theory, as he writes.

What people say or think that they'll do in a given situation, and what they actually do, are often two separate things, as I'm sure you know.


Of course, they could ask him what he should do, instead, but maybe there's some psychological benefit that can be derived from him thinking it's him facing the decisions.

Call it a matter of taste, then.

Make him a virtual driver.

[Virtualbody1234]

Make him a virtual driver.

:)

[j2k4]

Make him a virtual driver.

:)

Ah, good.

You caught that. :)

[tralalala]

:lol: they need to give us a driving simulator to drive on... NFS Carbon maybe? :lol:

Just finished the second lesson - went great, I now change gears without him telling me when to.. and he said I was doing very well :)

[j2k4]

:lol: they need to give us a driving simulator to drive on... NFS Carbon maybe? :lol:

Just finished the second lesson - went great, I now change gears without him telling me when to.. and he said I was doing very well :)

We expected no less. :)

[tralalala]

:) Thanks J2K.. next lesson on Monday at 11:20..

Bloody hell.. to think I need to take at least 28 lessons which cost about 11.5 pound-sterling a lesson.. expensive.. :\ But I suppose it's a one-time investment.

[Fulanito]

They are worth it buddy :D

[tralalala]

Had my 3rd lesson yesterday, and yesterday came the first stall :lol:

Was approaching a roundabout, was slowing, put my fott on the clutch, then braked, but my left foot wasn't sitting comfortably on the clutch, so I thought it would be OK to quickly replace it there for better comfort... and then I stalled :lol:


Oh well.. with time and practice I'll get better :)

[clocker]

Oh well.. with time and practice I'll get better :)
Indeed.
T'will become second nature soon.

[tralalala]

Yup.. too bad it costs so much for that second nature...

One time investment, I guess.

[j2k4]

Had my 3rd lesson yesterday, and yesterday came the first stall :lol:

Was approaching a roundabout, was slowing, put my fott on the clutch, then braked, but my left foot wasn't sitting comfortably on the clutch, so I thought it would be OK to quickly replace it there for better comfort... and then I stalled :lol:


Oh well.. with time and practice I'll get better :)

I hate to rain on your parade, Rafi, but you cannot refine fott-work to any extent of usability.

Leave your fott at home; learn to drive without it.

[tralalala]

Right.... Next time I'll try using my foot rather than my fott.. see if that works any better :)

[j2k4]

Right.... Next time I'll try using my foot rather than my fott.. see if that works any better :)

Bless you. :)

[pjnsmb]

leave the instructions to the driving instructor -best of luck

[SpiderPig]

I don't know where you're at right now.. but it's been a month after I've had the Driver's Ed behind the wheel and the fu*king DMV is so retarded that it opens only from Monday to Friday between 9-5PM........... I have fu*king school and Mid-Terms comming up right? Well, lemme tell u a story:

I went to DMV this one day and skipped my track practice, I get there at like 3:30.. the line is fu*king huge. I go to the front of the line at around 4:30pm and the fat a$$ at the place stalls and makes me take the test 15 minutes later. I go to the testing area and the fat b*stard is like: oh shit, u can't take the test now, we have to shut it down. I was like WDF FAG!

DMV is Hell.

[clocker]

"WDF"?

Always a good idea to berate and impugn highly motivated civil servants...that'll get 'em on your side, eager to help.

Hope your bus pass is current.

[tralalala]

Time to close a story.. I passed my third driving test today :D Amazing, such a relief to finally be out of the "learning-to-drive" circle, and to now actually have the right to drive my parents car. :)

[lynx]

On the contrary, you are now beginning the experience of learning to drive.

What you have just completed is the "learning-to-pass-the-test" circle.

[tralalala]

Totally agreed on. I have just received my license to go and learn how to drive with mum and dad :)

[vidcc]

Does this mean the examiners made enough money and decided to pass you?

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/p-failed-my-driving-test-again--post2065137/postcount13 ;)


Anyways, well done and be safe :01:

[lynx]

I remember making a similar comment to someone and he got rather irate, believing that he must be among the best drivers in the world because his knowledge was so fresh.

He couldn't understand why everyone creased themselves when he had a crash a couple of weeks later.

Lessons are no substitute for experience. As you obviously realise that I don't think you'll go far wrong.

[tralalala]

@vid - yeah I've probably given them enough loot, so they must have said "right then, Rafi has paid enough, go try and pass him". Arseholes.

@lynx - I know and understand that I will still be a crap driver for at least 5 years.. Then an average driver till say age 35-40, then maybe be a good one in about 35-40 years.. :lol:

[myminpins]

Wow, things are certainly different in different parts of the world. Here in Nova Scotia, Canada, you cannot obtain a driver's license without driver's ed.

First you have to do the eye test and written test. Until you pass that, you don't get to drive. Then you can take your lessons and no one learns on a standard transmission. They're very rare around here these days (I love them but I'm a minority)

I noticed someone saying he should use his HAND BRAKE while driving??? Since when do you EVER use your hand brake??? That's only for extra insurance when you are parked in my world. You NEVER use the hand brake unless the foot brake fails.

I've been driving since the day I turned 16 and, in those days, we didn't need lessons in order to get a full license. I never had an accident that was my fault as in I was driving recklessly, incorrectly, etc. Did have a couple due to winter weather/ice though... nasty stuff. They finally marked that turn five years later after at least 20 accidents a year there (the snow would blow over the road while the rest of the road for MILES around would be clear - and it was a blind turn).

I'm glad you passed your tests. Both my kids went through that last year. Over $500 each for lessons. They are still not allowed to drive my car, though. They drive their dad's car only (mine's worth too much to replace if in an accident and it's my only vehicle, their dad's car is cheap and he rarely uses it)

Have fun but always be careful and NEVER DRINK AND DRIVE!!!!! :)

[tralalala]

Hand brake would be used for a hill start...

Im after a few drinks though so I won't try and write a long answer.. I'm off to bed.. good night all

[myminpins]

I've never used a hand brake on a hill start in my life. That'd be cheating in my books. You learn to use the foot brake and the clutch/gas and you learn fast so you don't coast.

Use the hand brake??? No way!!!! lol

Sleep well!!! :)

[lynx]

I've never used a hand brake on a hill start in my life. That'd be cheating in my books. You learn to use the foot brake and the clutch/gas and you learn fast so you don't coast.

Use the hand brake??? No way!!!! lol

Sleep well!!! :)
You would fail your test in many parts of the world.

In places where manual gearboxes are more common than automatic, the chances of rolling back are much higher when people get it wrong, and consequently the emphasis on using the handbrake is much higher. Additionally, the handbrake is often put in a much more convenient position and easier to apply/release.

[myminpins]

Why would I fail my test if I didn't roll back? My father drove a standard most of his life and, when I was young, we always had a standard. He never ever used his hand brake except when parking, especially on a hill.

My first car was a standard and I drove another for years and years and, again, never used a hand brake and Nova Scotia is VERY hilly.

I learned never to ride the clutch (as so many do to keep from rolling - idiots) but to get very good at using the clutch so I didn't roll back.

I guess things are different in Europe, etc. Long as you drive competently, don't roll back, etc., on a hill, you pass your test. I took my driving test in a standard, actually, and passed with flying colors.